ALC-JBC Budget Hearings (9a-11:30A)

in call this meeting to order. For First off. Normally we have all of the agency step out according to our rules if they're at their budgets being considered without objection organises spend that so that the higher Education Committee personnel can stay in the room. And be available. and. Item be Personal report senator eads. You are. Recognized give that report thank you Mr chair of the personnel subcommittee of Arkansas Legislative Council joint budget met on October twentieth at eight AM and room may of the mac wielding subcommittee reviewed of the following agencies personnel related requests and personnel related special language the subcommittee respectfully request that they be filed with the executive recommendation to the Arkansas Legislative Council joint budget committee with the exceptions were noted the brutal this. And that's proper motion. I have a second. Got a second any discussion on the motion. On favourites opposed nay. Motion passes. Right moving along Doctor Markham if you could. Make your way to the table and before we get started with that I'm going to recognize Kevin to Senate discuss for those joining the as soon and if you are a member that May join resume for the remainder these hearings. Baker four attention of this. Thank you Mr chair Kevin Anderson bureau of legislative research. Those members that assuming there is a button that the members can push that says ray's hand and if you have any questions that will light up and then. We have a staff watching for that and they'll notify us that you have a question and the chair will recognize you for questions also for those members online or anybody online of would like to mention that if you go to the Arkansas General Assembly website in in the upper right hand corner click on budget that'll take you were all the budget manuals are located electronically. Thank you All right. Dr Martin if you would state your name for the record and. You're recognized begin your your overview. Thank you Mr chair members committee on Maria Markham director the Arkansas division of higher education I'm going to walk everyone through the productivity funding distribution of recommendations for FY twenty two. I believe it's on a begins on page nine of your manual. For the period measured a compared to baseline higher education saw productivity increase of two point eight four percent resulting in sorry members that's volume one the orange book volume one seven a and she's talking about just so everybody's on the same page of where we're at. Go ahead the two point eight four percent increase in productivity resulted in coordinating board recommended formula increase of eleven million two hundred and sixty thousand eight hundred and thirty one dollars and around seven point seven million of that is new general revenue with three point five million provided by reallocation of one time incentive funds available from the FY twenty one distribution. Our universities all parties positive gains leading to a total funding increase of eight point three million dollars community colleges were mixed with fifteen showing gains seven declines leading to a two point eight million dollar increase fifteen of our institutions that the two percent cap on increases to their bases and will be awarded one time funds accounting for approximately three point nine million dollars of our total recommendation. So looking at page not in your manual and I don't believe it's in color but the first set of columns of first green you may have a copy of it with color but if not it's the first four columns that represent the first column represent the total our state funding in the current fiscal year so FY twenty one. These are the funds subject to productivity calculations and do not include funds provided by ETF work force two thousand or received by non formula entities that these are only finds a general revenue for productivity funding. The second column contains the one time incentive funds that somehow performing institutions are receiving this year due to the duty exceeding the two percent Max cap that are backed out to create their base RSA for FY twenty two. The third column contains each institution to base our essay so that's the starting point for FY twenty two upon which the productivity calculations began. And the fourth column has the productivity percentage gains and losses by institutions. The next set of columns at the top with a new general revenue funding. The first of those columns indicate productivity index increases these are not dollar amounts these are the product to productivity points garnered in the period measured by each institution the second of those columns reflects a calculation of each institutions contribution to the state's overall increase in productivity and determine shares of new funds going to each institution. The third column there in that set contains the fund increase for all positive institutions. And the next set of columns are titled productivity re allocations at the top. Thank you can calculations for institutions that lost funds due to productivity declines and how those funds are re distributed there's only activity in this section if there are funds available to redistribute so the first two columns contain the same information as the last section for the gains again all universities are positive so there was no redistribution of funds for those institutions fifteen community colleges were positive and receive redistribution funds from the seven community colleges that were in the negative. Funding losses just as a reminder are capped at two percent. But last Collins there with the recommendation title at the top. A contain the kept the recommendations based on calculations in the previous three sets of columns the first. Provides the total funding recommendation for each institution for FY twenty two totaling five hundred and seventy four million three hundred and two thousand dollars and some change. The second column figures are the net funding changes over the previous year's base or the the year that we're in now FY twenty one. That third call launches the percentage change to the institutions funds. The fourth call one provide the amount of the increase at an institution will capture into their base for next years cap that calculations honoring the two percent cap on carryover increase. The final call in shows the difference between the total increase in the capped RSA which the institutions realizes one time incentive funds for FY twenty two. So I'm gonna pause there I'm happy to take any questions before I move on to the treasury and cash appropriation summaries. All right looks like we have a couple here If four we get to that I think we have a point of personal privilege by Representative Lundstrum. Thank you chairman Dotson as of ten minutes ago I am a new grandmother. Congratulations. Grace in Marie lively it's nine pounds and three ounces. Excited. I'm getting to watch the whole thing so I'm. Ecstatic thank you Facebook live is a wonderful thing. All right the. Also members since were in random seats I don't have the names up here I have seat numbers so whoever's in seat number twenty two. Is that that's a Mr chair dry cell right now Senator Elliot you're recognized thank you so much doctor Markham I I have just tried to over the years since we've had this productivity model follow this and and try to figure out the big picture of a whether or not as we've gone down this road what the numbers really show of what the in some cases the outcome shall Akon show. If this is something that is working for us to get out of higher ed what we. Of the results we say we want to get when it comes to educating. More students to be a part of our Arkansas workforce. I guess the bottom line is how is this working for higher and we get the reports but in the and how is it actually working I we is it working for us to maybe thought it would. And thank you for the question senator Elliott I believe that we have some mixed results as you can see by the the fluctuations of some institutions being up in some down I think sometimes the institutions that are down it doesn't tell the full story of their their successes what we do know is that it is increasing the production of individuals with marketable degrees and certificates so even though we had a decline in enrollment in higher education we have at a higher number of individual our Kansans completing a higher they're higher education journey so we truly are producing more students with with marketable credentials of a smaller cohort smaller beginning cope work and so yes I think that we are we're getting a we're getting a better return on our investment for are higher education institutions is that is that Rick does that return reflect of the population of our state and more specifically does it reflect that we are getting returns from especially underserved populations swear we know that's a growing population and we need to have more heart and decrees. Among that population and that's another good question what we've seen so far are mixed results there as well we have actually seen we've we've targeted some populations with this funding so we have added incentive for institutions to serve those hard to serve underserved populations and we've seen a big increase in our production in Hispanic community of we have seen a decline unfortunately in our black communities of of individuals who are both attending higher education and completing and higher education so we're seeing seeing less engagement there and that is something that is central to our strategic plan that we are moving into and January to really target populations to put our at you know we we target I'm here in the productivity formula but to look at the activities outside the financial that we are engaged and throughout the state to engage those populations in higher education A we're continuing to see that drop particularly in the economic environment that we're in right now fewer of those students are engaging and finally do you anticipate or has higher department had a discussion about make in a suggestions to the legislature about any changes in the formula or any changes in what we could do better to make sure we're not missing but we're not on the downside of engaging all populations because. We are small state we just don't have people people to not educate more people I have a we have not had conversations about changing the formula to better engage those populations however we have had several conversations about changing some of our mix and scholarship being to engage those populations of a we have a a draft bill that has been approved by of the governor's office and we're working with the sponsor this time to Further clarify that would that would be a true needs based aid scholarship program but built will that draft be circulated among other legislative hours before we got to twenty twenty one. I'm certain it will I'm looking at my sponsor. But I'm certain it will yet already been drafted and I know that we your sponsor of ET okay will be visible the lately funds are on that bill okay all right and but we yes that is something that we have been working on for about a year and and we are working on the details of that now and that is designed to engage those who are lower resource and really target those students okay thank you very much thank you senator seat number seven I believe is senator bond. You're recognized. Thank you and thank you Dr Martin for being here So on the sort of tangent to the productivity for funding formula you mentioned are college going rate is been declining you and I've had this discussion before. And I appreciate your honesty about that that it's been declining significantly and and and so that creates this issue of how are we reaching out to these other populations to get them into the two year for your system. I know we have the career pathways program what's the funding model sort of change maybe and then career coach is to to sort of turn the tide on our declining college going rate or we do we have anything that's within this budget or your budgets that's coming to turn that around. And it thank you senator one those are excellent questions and things that we're working on currently one that I don't have control over which is the career coach program but I know there's a lot of conversation expanding that that is not a higher education initiative but um as someone who's been on the campus and has supervisory responsibilities for coaches one the best things that we do in our state to to expose students and let students know that they are at. There are options for them that there are many different has a higher education and and that has really helped and we've we've got some disturbing trends right now nationally Arkansas is not necessarily special in that declining college going rate of early data from this fall and is not good we see that women are disengaging from higher read one a lot of our male students are disengaging from higher read their eight at a higher rate which they're a little more difficult to track the higher rate anyway we have a lot of students who were taking a gap year which is a terrible horrible idea that we do not endorse I'm at the department of division of higher ed so we have a lot of and and of initiatives that we're going to be pushing out over the next year to try to stem that tide of that exodus from higher education three dollars shipping through career coach programs through outreach at our at our institutions are K. twelve institutions and then as always trying to target that very hard to reach adult population to bring those those students back into the fold we we are in a position where we have a smaller and smaller high school graduating senior class sizes so we have a smaller pool that we're drawing from so it's so important that we increase the percentage of the students who were. Coming over into higher education after they graduate so we are we you know we work with a variety of scholarship thing options to try to track the students to come in as concurrent students and FOR continue their their education following graduation so I guess the very long if your question is yes we're looking at expanding her coaches expanding our offering of scholarships and in the out reach to those various populations just to follow up on the you know we always rank about forty seven forty eight forty nine from the level of education of our people for sustained economic development I think we have to have a shared goal the really sensually B. laser focused on that have a moon shot and get us out of the bottom of the the nation and I say that's our best shot but career pathways career coaches excuse me used to be the state used to pay a hundred percent of those I think and then we backed away from that and wanted by an from local districts is that right so it seems to me the history of that program to be were pulled back from career coach is at a time when we we need those people out there were treating young men and women of all different stripes absolutely we only have those those coaches in in certain areas of the state it's not there's not a hundred percent coverage so we are looking to expand that that region that touch of Kerr coaches and all of our school district and then also looking at younger introduction so that it hitting those middle school kids At an earlier age right now we start around eight grade with our our reach but looking you know younger and younger to expose them to their opportunities let us question to increase funding in this program so that be in these budgets on that we're probably not gonna do that today obviously but what if or would it be in your budget within the department of that it's not and it's not in my budget I believe that's actually part of the CTP budget of AT Kerr technical education okay I thank thank you very much. And the members were starting to get several stacked up here in the queue if if I can have a reminder to everybody to stay on the the budget related and have policy discussions with the department outside of this also one other thing while well we have. What looks like. The most people in their seats that I've seen all morning so far A if you would please maintain your same seat that you chose throughout the entire day when you come back this afternoon so that we don't have movement around and if you are going to be able to come back this afternoon please let staff know so they can. Clean your station and someone that it's available for someone else if they come back this afternoon And. Like we dropped off a bunch in the queue The Representative Bentley I believe forty six. Thank you chairman. Thank you miss Parker for being here today two quick questions one we're looking at dropping decline in the Roman help we looked at increasing or funding in specific areas where we know we're lacking spots out issues nursing Ford an example we are have a huge nursing shortage in our state across the nation but I know that in my district and I know I personally so use that for example that we have At a two U. anyway CCM the two schools that the training nurses we have a huge amount students wanting to get the program so when they have opening of twenty five slots they have two hundred applications as huge so we have a hundred and seventy five that want to get in that cannot get in so are we looking at anything we can do to increase funding to those air so they can simply double their program do they could double triple their programs we could help or nursing shortage we can also increase the number of students I know a lot of are going to drop out of the can't get into where they want to go then the dropping out there seeking that nurses training elsewhere where we could use them there we have a great program that show great success so have we looked at that don't specific funding to those programs we know we have shortage of people here in our state. Thank you for the question and I believe that you and I have a meeting next week to to discuss this week but actually what yet so from the from a institutional funding perspective yes we we incentivize a high demand programs as well as stand and nursing is one of those programs so institutions receive additional funding for those types of programs and this is kind of a multi pronged answered we also have scholarships dedicated specifically to students who are pursuing a credentials in those areas nursing is one of those so that for example the Arkansas future grant we target nurses and that so institutions and students have funding available of sufficient funding available in my opinion seventy eight stations may disagree many times what we have at the institutional level that limits the number of students is we are limited on the number of clinical spaces so our local providers can't serve anymore students in the clinical work work capacity there so. Even if we could double our our size because we do have the funding for it and we do have both on the institutional side and for students of our hospitals can't accept clinical students into their program and that's not always the case with many time it is and and another issue that we have is finding qualified faculty who are willing to leave their roles as practicing nurses to come into our institutions and teach so definitely an issue we know that we have a shortage of but I think it's going to take more than just binding on the higher it's odd it's really gonna take addressing our issues with clinical spaces to expand those programs as you mentioned and we may want to ask an institution for some more specific details on that. Follow up chairman said okay good so just a quick I know that investing with institutions that the student to faculty ratio in nursing is much smaller as it needs to be so you know I know that they're not thinking the findings would need to be so we can look at that when we have our meeting but also there's a lot of things we can do with high tech stimulate simulation you know computer simulation things that we can do so I think would maybe look at some extra funding there to provide this very expensive to have the simulation models there for them to use but I think a thanks that we maybe look at the box at that so and and I ask one other question we can visit with morning meeting Dr Martin I appreciate you being willing to come but are also when we're looking at we're looking at work with the institutions to receive less money per student to try to correct the historical base funding we are not no ma'am. Do you think that might be. Something we could look at. It's something it that the conversation that has been ongoing and eight I'm sure that it will be on going to add additional funding to the base to correct for Inequities and and student. Funding for FTP per head count it is it is an ongoing concern and it's one of those issues that we are closing the gap on that as the productivity funding model continues every year that gap gets a bit smaller but it. In order to completely correct for the historical inaccuracies we we simply don't have the revenue to. Correct that at this point we've had conversations about redistribution of the base but those are those are large ships and funds over a short period of time that destabilizes hot the higher education environment in general so we have continued to back off of those discussions of for the stability of higher education throughout the state even though we do recognize that there are some institutions to are funded at a lower rate per anti. Just one quick follow up chairman so I know that one of this predictive model it's just the last one to present a two percent of the total funding right a small amount so we're looking at maybe increase that to percent to ten percent were actually to me would make a difference because it's a very minute amount to percent of their total funding is pretty minute amount so yes and we have talked about raising that cap of the the thing that we run into their when we passed productivity funding in two thousand sixteen I believe that session we made a commitment to this body that we would never request more than a two percent increase year over year for funding for higher education so we would have to a re examine that commitment to presenting a budget that exceeded that two percent cap. Thank you chairman thank you Seat number forty one please Representative Payton you're recognized thank you Mr chair Sir you got really close to answer my question in that last conversation we see the two percent eleven million dollars being added to the base but we're talking about enrollment dropping. So okay through twelve is based on per student. And however it seems to have a five hundred and sixty six million dollar base its untouchable and if enrollment drops why wouldn't that based drop. That that's a very good question hi I'm Kate twelve funded on an input basis so they look at the number of students who enter education we're focused on output so we look at the number of students who exit hi red with the credential so we don't look at enrollment on the front end we look on production on the back and that's how we fund so even though our enrollment is down we're producing more students with credentials at the back and but isn't that just tied to the productivity funding I mean we're talking like the base is untouchable. The base A we also reduce the two percent is the Max that we reduce the base annually have we ever reduce the base and yes and if you look at your M. charts here any institution with a. Under the pride productivity reallocation section that it's it's read on my sheet but it would be around the middle that re up route reallocation of productivity losses you'll see that there are seven institutions. And that list on the two year college side that have reductions in funding. So in none of the four year colleges had to a drop in enrollment. Yes Sir they did have a drop in enrollment some of the four year colleges did some summer up summer down it was mixed but they all had an increase and their productivity. Houston degrees and increase the degrees okay thank you Mr. Thank you Representative and Dr Martin that looks like all the questions we've got for you at the moment if you are welcome to. I'll hold on looks like. Seat number. Eighty eight Senator Stubblefield. Thank you Mr chairman Dr Martin I have a information request that I would like you to get to may I. This is a in response back to the curriculums that are being taught in all of our higher it institution in regard to cities classes history classes with a special emphasis on the critical race theory and the sixteen nineteen project do you know how many of those hiring institution for teaching this course is no sorry not that will review it can you give me that information yes thank you very much right thank you senator and seat number. Twenty six senator Chesterfield I believe. Mister chairman will review. The budget. Senator with we have an actually. I heard that presentation yet this is an overview of higher education. So we're not going to review the higher education budget. That that comes after we're we're gonna hear from bill our staff and there's a lot of reports So we did this differently because normally the audit report the first. Yeah I guess it is in a different order than the normal. Our thank you. All rights seat number. Eighteen I'm not sure who's in that scene. Represented wouldn't. Thank. Thank you Mr chairman miss Markham can you and you may have. present this but can you give me the total number of enrollment drops throughout the system. Throughout our a and and many. Students earn up didn't return or. How much enrollment today I'll. At all the institution though and yes Sir I can give you of the change the one you're change an FTP since last year we are down a total of one point seven percent in full time equivalent enrollment. What's the actual number not the person's. We have an actual. For decline. It looks like. Just under two thousand. For under two thousand state wide yes in this in this in all the institution that's all of our yes all of our public institutions of the and and then what what is the and you. I thank you gave this but. Of what what is the Plus or minus in your budget in dollars total the all the institution the total amount of new general revenue. Is S. it's about seven point seven million dollars that's the new G. R.. Seven million yes. Mister chairman of a wood one more of like to follow up missed build go ahead. Are you saying that in the nursing area that even if you increase the number that are permitted to be in nursing that the clinical aspect of it is where the you run into the Where they can be placed many times of many times that is the case so the debate that the the the state nursing board determines student teacher ratio for the nursing programs and they also determine how much time as a student can must spend in clinical versus theory. Representative Brandt separate look Bentley did make a good point that now a lot of that can be done in simulation lab so we have seen a proliferation of stimulation labs across the state to do the clinical but there's still a certain amount of time has to be spent in the hospital and. So it's up to the is not the hospitals they don't have the position to our can. Teach in clinical it you're saying it's the state nursing board is created in the library no. No I'm not saying that I'm saying that that the the local hospitals can only receive a certain number of students they only have a certain number preceptors that placed on their decision or the decision of the nursing though based on their capacity on their ability. So so is the house bills the problem or the nursing board. I don't know if some I don't know that I'm qualified to answer that question. I don't know that I'm qualified to answer that question I don't know what could be changed their symbol is the nursing board determines who can be and clinical so how many ratio to the teacher or is it the hospitals. I'm sure the nursing board has I'm really guessing here but they have some they do say how many clinical students to a clinical precept or can be present in a hospital and any any point. So I do not know what that's based is there shortage of trying to get to what's causing loggerhead which is it a problem with the of preceptors of not enough of them or is it the hospitals don't have enough decisions I mean this is a critical problem throughout the state in the schools I thank all the schools or the other I have a nursing program are at capacity or the they are yes so so hello we increase that the. Excellent and I don't feel comfortable Making that that statement I think that's really a question for the institution to have nursing programs. By where the where the well it's just going to give this one opinion if we have to ask all of them the thought that board of education would. You know the the more involved in trying to figure out what what is the problem. Mister chairman of like that's an area that we need to to pursue. As it relates to being able to increase the capacity. The at the schools and clinically and with preceptors and that sign I'll be happy to do some research on that were you and and respond when the backs of appreciated thank you Mr chair Representative Members just as a reminder if you're not speaking for. Drinking please remember to keep your mask on. And. Senator Elliot I believe is C. twenty two. Yes you're recognized thank you Mr chair I don't to Markham I meant to ask earlier and I just forgot about the research institutions do you have any budgetary information for us is for the product type of productivity formula is is a. concerned about how they are faring under the productivity And I do not have the metrics in front of me I can I can just briefly look and tell you that it appears that our research institutions this year or. Most of them appear to be well they're all going to be positive this year because all of the universities were positive. you senator. That. Okay I'll have to look in and see who received. Adjustments FOR the research activities positive adjustments for the research activities it did you say you will look I will I don't I don't have that information in front of me okay if the us if you would send it to me that that would be fine because of it but I don't know if we need to calibrate in twenty twenty one for them I think that would be important and I just think that's just so important for our economic development going forward in this state that we're paying close attention to the right and we did we did change the way that we measure their research activities the rules so that they can never get a reduction based on research activities yeah. That's really good because it was pretty paltry start with thank you thank you Mr chair thank you Representative Payton. Thank you Mr chair Dr Markham on trying to understand the numbers here in in response to represent it wouldn't question on G. general revenue increase you said it was seven point seven million and I can't find where that comes from what I'm seeing. Is a new funds of eleven million two hundred eleven million two aren't sixty thousand which is the two percent and then when I look at the column that says RSA increase revenue stabilization act that's general revenue I would thank those two columns total eight point three. And if you had a point three plus the incentive funding it brings you to the eleven to where's the incentive funding coming from and wouldn't the general revenue part B. that eight point three. The incentive funding is every distribution of one time funding from the previous year so that's not new funding that's funding that was granted to institutions last year that we are re distributing based on a performance in the next year of then the. Six of the eight. I'm gonna have my deputy. Nicks Fullerton that the system director for finance a division of higher ed if you look on page eight that'll probably be a better way to see the differences. If you look at the current FOR twenty one forecast the has the five hundred and sixty six million dollars. And then the next column is that current year incentive funding the three point five million. That is reduced out of the base level funding for each institution to create their twenty two base level of five hundred and sixty three million. Which creates that that number that you see at the top of the page that we add the the increase on top of to get the total of eleven point to increase. So when you so we take the eleven two is the total but then we already have the three point five of incentive funding to redistribute for this next year so you get the seven point seven by taking the three point five of the live into yes Sir the eight point three is just the amount for the four year university okay so when you look on page nine and ten yes under the call on this is R. as they increase. And you total the four year to year. It's a point three and that would be general revenue would yes Sir and that's due to the fact that you still the base level still can only increase by up to two percent each year. See also need to add that next column this is incentive funding. Has one point seven and two point two. Add that to your eight point three and you should get the eleven million. That's the FY twenty two recommendation for one time and send the funds that we can be backed out for FY twenty three of those more mass thank you Sir thank you Mr chair thank you Representative. Bentley you're recognized. Thank you chairman I just want to invite all my college especially represented wouldn't if he wants to attend a meeting that I'm holding this Thursday at noon and cessation counties were having a number of folks from different nursing schools of the board of nursing a higher rated workforce services so it represented would or any my colleagues would like to attend that meeting at noon so shisha counties building there of you welcome to ten and one on this Thursday thank you I just to talk about arms study thank you. Senator bond you're recognized well I just and wanted to get out here because there's always concern that we're putting too much money in to hire at I think if the legislature and I feel the opposite way. Rex Nelson just read an article few weeks ago at a tutorial about our continued under funding of higher at. Looking at the national models on those difficult for you to say we do still under fund higher ed and it continues to increase our tuition for kids and families across the state can you explain that to us. That the yes Sir that is correct and so you know the issue that we've had is we have not consistently increase the the contribution to our higher education from the state side to keep up with inflationary factors and that that is something that we're trying to rectify with the productivity funding model to out give institutions an opportunity to earn their inflation it basically they're inflationary finds three proving that they are protected so that that is how we are addressing that and you know it is a direct there's a direct correlation between the disinvestment higher read and the cost of students and families so when we look at the increasing tuitions and fees you know you find the reason for that in the way that the state has funded higher education not not in the last few years but over the course of of a you know generational period of time so add this is our way of slowly and without the sticker shock of looking at what we really we should be funding higher it that we're that's why we made that commitment even though we understand that some institutions they might earn a fifteen percent increase we just can't afford that on an annual basis so we're it no more than two percent a year slowly improving our contribution of state dollars to a higher education system thank you. Right Representative Wooten you're recognized. Thank you Mr chairman that I respectfully disagree with senator bond. I don't think we're questioning the amount of money that is being. I don't think we're questioning the amount of money. What we're questioning is is the dollar being used wisely to educate our children and our young people in this study. You can compare us necessarily to other states as it relates to the amount of money they were able to produce and I think our citizens are making a tremendous commitment to higher education let me just point out one area at the university system federal Fort Smith archeological survey up to cool research. Math and science and arts criminal justice the Clinton school. And we're a. One thousand eighty two positions that have been in the budget sense it least twenty. Twelve twenty eleven and the wells in eighty two is forty five thousand dollars a year is forty eight million dollars. There's none in in budgeted positions that your current along with the me back up I don't know where they're all funded but they're all positions that are in the budget system this is a report that came from your agency firm the institutions of our name doll Arkansas tech is two hundred and thirty three positions. Henderson state is twenty nine. And I didn't hear from. The budget full campus of the USA or of some of the others around the study. What I'm saying is that we need to be sure we're why salute using the money is being invested in our system. My question is why would the university of Arkansas thank or and I'm sure the going difficult because I understand the importance of agriculture why would they have six hundred and twenty eight positions that are not been filled in over two years. I would I be carrying that in there is either in their budget urges caring six hundred twenty there's just a half of those are budgeted positions. And your carrying that forward each year each year it just compounds is. The forty eight million dollars. Is to the the baby could be used in other areas. I was on the on the position side that the none of the institutions received their state funding based on a position level of if you they have a position authorized they don't get funding for that specific position none of none of their their funding is based on positions or insurance or any of that so they have a position authorize that doesn't mean they have to pay the the in that but why don't I a lot of those I have positions well I have positions that are over two years so that have never been fail Sir A a lot of those are in anticipation of various grants that they might receive it's possible they got those authorized and then there for over two years it's possible the grant didn't come through so they weren't able to fund those positions at the time so they're they're still trying to keep them in anticipation that the grant might be awarded. You think that's a fair representation of the system budget. I I I don't believe that though a majority of those are included in the the dollar amounts that are being budgeted institution that just have those in preparation in anticipation of future use in the event that they have funding commission or enrollment increases on the on the side of the institution that offers those academic what what I would what I would the university of Arkansas AT Fort Smith have three hundred two in. Positions of an empty for over over two years. Well I can't speak specifically to you I FF I can say that they've had a pretty sick did this were run into the problem. Your title is the department of higher education. And yet we can't get direct answers and I'm not blaming you. What I'm saying is we're not getting the total information that we need to make wine as budgetary decisions I don't fly we come in here and you're asking us to look at five hundred and sixty six million dollars. And earn a. This is wrong with the system some more unemployment I'm not saying it's your fault I'm just saying maybe it's maybe it's our follows the General Assembly. We're charged with the responsibility to assure the taxpayer's money of this state. Are all being used wisely. And budget was senator bond said I think we need to make every effort. To all firms quality higher ed education to the young people of the study. But we need to be sure that we're wirelessly using the money anywhere not time the just take half of that forty AD. You say that is budgeted for twenty four million dollars. That could be you somewhere else. Scholarship. To deal with that two thousand student drop. And hello that here again may be a result of the virus but it's still a problem. Senator bond is is pouring out. German that's all I have thank you thank you Representative. As far as the those positions are concerned. A did I hear you say that those are. And budgeted unfilled positions that do not require any insurance retirement benefits be paid out of it so they're they're not actually spending a dollar amount that's correct and so the practice in general has been you know if an individual vacate to position. They don't surrender the position even if they choose not to refill it so it stays on their their their books basically is that available position to fill in the future so anytime we see an enrollment draw will probably have faculty positions that don't get re hired and immediately it's just not been the practice for institutions to surrender positions because there's really no cost and I don't budget for those do you recommend to the institutions that they go ahead and release those so we don't run into this type of a problem we've never made that recommendation before it could certainly be something that we looked that if you have unfilled positions that you don't plan to fill he can surrender those but Nick we we are showing eight a small reduction at least in the authorized positions in the recommendation that'll be coming personnel tomorrow I I see. But the schools are evaluating those positions and reducing where they can when they see that they are able to do that so we are growing the overall authorized amount it's. If you could look at that and make that sort of a recommendation to the institutions especially for those that have been sitting there on field on vacant for two years or more that would be extremely helpful I think for this committee and represent to represent of women's point of making sure that we're not caring because I believe that they can come back during the interim and request something if a grant comes through that that it needs an additional position is that correct thank you and and and typically goes grant positions are provisionals so those wouldn't be positions that we would recommend that they eliminate because you know sometimes you have to hire up for those grants very quickly they get an NSF grant I need higher principal investigator you know within a month we wouldn't want to have to delay that but you know there there are most likely other positions that there they've been carrying on their books that they just haven't paid any attention to because they had no intent to fill that we could we could look at reduction there if I recall correctly those provisional positions they come to a service as a report that they're able to actually fill those immediately right yes okay thank you Senator Chesterfield you're recognized yes were good I find out what the audit findings were for hiring. Actually you are the last person in the queue and they are next up it would be nice thank you so much all right at our agent doctor Markham that is the final question we've got for you thank you for for coming in and don't go too far because somebody needs to bring it back up again but We're gonna go. I've already. Thought about going out of order on the agenda so without objection will have audit come up next before we hear from bill or If you would state your name for the record and you're recognized the give us a summary. This is the. You have an extra. Item in your on your desk there. LCD JVC budget hearing audit findings for institutions of higher education package. Thank you Mr chair Patrick new deputy legislative auditor for educational institutions with Arkansas legislative audit I'm wanna it hopefully briefly get you a summary of the two thousand nineteen audit findings all of these deal with the fiscal year two thousand nineteen some of these were in your packet for the previous budget hearing which we had in March of twenty twenty which was for the twenty one fiscal year. So we have not completed the twenty audits of some of these institutions so that's reason some of these are repeats if you remember those so on in your if you look in your packet of the first pages for Arkansas state university system they had one finding it had to do with on collateralized or uninsured deposits A three hundred twenty eight thousand dollars at the end of June thirtieth two thousand nineteen this had to do with some temporary cover the investment converted to cash. and it as you notice at the bottom of the page we listed the campuses that had no finding so the Jonesborough campus is the only one that had finding for twenty nineteen. The next pages Henderson state university again this was presented back in March of twenty twenty at those budget hearings now as you know there being and the plan is to merge with a issue system as of January first twenty twenty one. The first finding had to do with me it had to deal with misstatements there was some recording errors related to the net pension liability and related deferred inflows and outflows related to those pension liabilities. And then also do the reclassification cation ACT and accounts payable were understated by a hundred and that ninety six thousand dollars. the financial statements were corrected and the financial statements that were in the audit report were correct. the second finding had to do with the a student account balances the university's policy although not written was to allow students with a current balance of less than forty eight hundred dollars to register for the upcoming semester and to automatically and rose students in a payment plan each semester. So as you see we have some exceptions when we tested toward that policy eight of ten students tested were allowed in row with the balance that exceeds the university's policy of forty eight hundred dollars. And five a ten students tested did not make any payments during the fall but were allowed to re enroll in the spring and or summer semester. A the additionally we examine ten delinquent accounts determine compliance with university policies and procedures and state regulations. four eight of the tent a student accounts tested the university was not diligently and actively pursuing collection of those outstanding balances which is in noncompliance with Arkansas code. On the next page it's national park college FOR twenty nineteen. And they had a finding a misstatement finding as well it had to do with the scholarship allowance is that is recorded on the on the of financial statements it's basically the financial aid that students receipt to pay the institutional call such as tuition and room and board and that goes against the revenue that's a that's an accounting entry to keep from double counting the revenue on the financial statements. So what they did they had misstated that scholarship allowance by one point seven million but that was a net entry because it should win against revenue instead against the expenses way also there was no effect to their net position at six thirty nineteen it was still properly stated. Other second finding and you'll see a lot of these at many of you all that's in on my audit committee in education see these a lot there were eight unauthorized withdrawals totalling eleven thousand four ninety three from February to March of twenty twenty might be made from the colleges bank account. entity personnel discovered the on authorized disbursements when I reviewed on their monthly bank reconciliation and they were able to get the charges reversed by the bank so there was no loss to the college. Turning to the next page we have northwest Arkansas community college they have had a fortunately diverted direct deposit of an employee's payroll check after the college received an email asking that the their bank account beast be switched for their direct deposit that turned out to be a fraudulent email and so there was a loss of twenty five twenty five hundred dollars to the college on an. The next page is south Arkansas community college. Again we had a fraudulent charges to this time to the colleges P. card account. And again the college discover this and the funds were recovered from the from the bank so there was no walls to the college. The second finding was a misstatement finding. it had to do with a miss classification of Of. Ms classification of supplies and other services compare to the administration the building remediation cost that was just a miss classification so it made it out the air and there was no effect on the net position at six thirty nineteen. And finally the last one is the university of Arkansas system. The majority of the findings that you see on here our internal audit report findings and were required if they have to do with a loss to the agency or college or university we have to report tells to the prosecuting attorney so they appear in the audit report and that's our method of referring those findings to the applicable prosecuting attorney. as you say you have one for you a fait at the there was an authorized charges to the university's Bender master files and resulting losses primary to the from the period September eighteen to November of eighteen. There was a suspected automated clearing house payment fraud management filed a report with the university police department internal audit came in and discovered that one vendors banking banking information was altered to read them don't mind not belonging to the vendor. And that resulted in fifteen on authorized payments totaling a hundred and thirty two thousand dollars. They did recover thirteen thousand and this was as a B. as that the audit date thirteen thousand dollars and at that time with the loss to the university of a hundred eighteen thousand. finding to wish you a little rock. they conducted in the internal audit conducted an audit of rental property or agreements and payment information. of the seventeen rental park properties for the period July seventeen through June thirtieth of eighteen property management Records are a manually my aunt manually nine time noted that six previous tenant so ten thousand one hundred forty dollars and one current tended coated hunt owed a hundred forty eight dollars. And as of the report date based there were still outstanding ten thousand one forty. And then also to current campus living employees did not transfer utilities and to their names upon signing lease agreements. at that was discovered ten months after the fact but those employees are reimbursing the university through payroll deduction. You value Monticello there was a loss of eleven hundred dollars for a pay roll identity theft. P. U. I hope Texarkana. there was a loss of eighteen hundred dollars for a payroll identity theft. casa talk community college again we have a loss of thirteen hundred dollars. And this had to do with pyro identity theft this will. Phillips community college There was again an identity theft there which resulted in the loss of seventeen hundred dollars. And then finally the enrollment audit procedures that were performed there were a couple of exceptions noted that you a time bluff where one student who was reported as in road for two courses as of the eleven class day which is the census date was determined and have never attended those classes and then a you a Batesville two students have a seventy nine students tested withdrew prior to the eleven class day. But we're still included in the enrollment numbers. And at the end of the each one of those you see the the university or college as response to those and then at the end of your vice system you'll notice the campuses that had no findings and again all the other colleges and universities if you are if I didn't go over a finding they did not have a finding in the audit report for the fiscal year twenty nineteen. And that concludes my summary of the audit findings Mr chair thank you very much Representative back you have a question. Thank you Mr chair for my days back on the education hot it always gonna fly once the repeat finding and this one repeat finding on the south Arkansas community college number one it appears that there are some cards of. Profit margin Charges on them to Picard. That's a repeat finding cell where there. This is the second audit that we've done that we found that cards are. Actually this was the third audit where we fit in a role that they had fraudulent charges the so the bill is actually to the the next point I was looking at their response the response seems to be very reactive not proactive in stopping it from happening the next time. The red light at the US they for state follow the procedures that are recommended by the state and trying to determine to make sure that the that they do an adequate review of those P. card transactions and try to find those at a time and then if they find it is a ASA wheel fraudulent charges they follow the procedures that are recommended them did just for a quick question then was that the thanks for the someone break into it to the bank system or did was it the university's fault that these occur. Someone at the university. I don't have that information but I believe it was just somebody obtain that in from information the P. card information for all gently and used it to make a purchase if I remember right I'm not for certain on that but I believe that was the case in this an instance and if not a large dollar amount obvious from it doesn't seem like the very good stewards of taxpayer dollars if I just let it continue however the the person's getting these numbers to that it continues to happen is my point thank you. And thank you Representative and thank you that's all the questions we have for audit. Turning to item see to. You have a summary sheet packet in on your desk there and Mr Henry you are recognized to present this. Thank you Mr chairman Henry Reis legislative research as the chairman said there's a packet it's called summary of institutions of higher education at C. two should be on your desk and what it is it's a summary of appropriations that we hope will assist you with your decision making today you'll be looking at and making a decision on the appropriations for treasury cash and other appropriations that are in the two manuals so for instance where it says volume one that's gonna be the university manual volume two is the smaller college manual. So looking at the the summary packet there three parts the summary the first part you will see on the first pages for the treasury appropriations and those are paid from the revenue stabilization fund educational excellence and work force two thousand funds. So if you look at the sheet when you look at it from left to right it shows the institution or the fund to assure you the page number as well as the manual and it shows the authorized appropriation they currently have that's in there ACT. And then the a heck B. which is the Arkansas higher education coordinating board recommendation for the next two fiscal years. And then the next four columns are gonna show you the change in dollar amount for each year of the biennium as well as the percent change from the current authorize appropriation levels. The far right column will have asterisk Senate and just kind of for a free no with the Astors meaning the first the skinny the one asters Wilshire line item changes. Two asters will show either in addition or deletion of a line item and three asters indicate the deletion addition of a new appropriation section. So if you look at the for at the bottom of the first page you'll see the total for the institutions that's the total appropriations and the accompanying requests. On the second page of your hand out the washer the two year institutions in the same format and these are also the treasury fund appropriation summaries. On page three that's the beginning of the cash appropriation summaries. And these appropriation are the ones that are paid from tuition and fees sales and federal funds and it has the same format. As the previous pages. So getting to the very last page this is what we call the other appropriations. This includes tobacco funding special revenues from court filings that go to the university of Arkansas and U. A L. R. law schools and breast cancer research funds among others Mister chairman that's all I have on the summary. Thank you. And. Looks like we've got a few questions. Seat number twelve. Is that Representative makes you are recognized who who are you want to ask a question us maybe staff my can answer this and if not then we can bring in the institution mac my questions on our on it's in volume one page one fifty one. And. Page one fifty three. Thirty second get there so page one fifty one and then one fifty three. Okay so if you look at their request in the past it's been thirty five hundred it's jumping to seventy five hundred and if you look general revenues zero but the requesting three million dollars in general revenue that I guess they have not received in the past and then if you flip over to one fifty three. I'm not sure how these two appropriations or or or different but same thing you see a three million dollar. In just a request of general revenue that they've not had before and I'm wondering if. What's different or what is do we know what's what the request is for that three million dollars in revenue where they haven't gotten any before a yes Sir so if you look at page one fifty one that's just a detail that shows how much that are on our on by the way is the Arkansas research and education optical network. A that shows you how much of they've actually spent in nineteen twenty and that the budgeted amount so that's not quite appropriation section that's just a little bit of detail on how much that they've actually spent and so on page one fifty three a I believe the question was why are they asking for an increase of appropriation of. The reason that thank according to suit you a system that they're requesting an increase that's to provide for additional cyber security resources for members on the the optical network and that's going to allow or on to contract and provide twenty four hours a day seven days a week security operation senator monitoring and reporting for all their member in points as well as endpoint protection software. Sellers that. Was that something new that they're doing what we bought by them picking up the responsibility of doing the cyber security and obviously we're all personal support cybersecurity. What will we see a corresponding savings from the individual entities. Then so we basically are we taking their responsibilities from the and users and shipping it on to the are on system. Or. At may be a question for the agency is I'd have to defer to the agency on that someone here from. The US systems. They can come address that please. Good morning if you would state your names for the record and if you need the question repeated criminal. My name is Donna bottom present the of a system but as a consequence of the. legislation that formed are on I also chair the board that are on is not a sit specifically for you have a system that serves all higher education in the state. And an answer to your query a question all right. I thank you most of us would agree that the present time our security is an adequate in fact some of the audit findings in the university of Arkansas system have identified weaknesses and as we move to online banking online purchasing a really moving away from some of the previous sources of face to face for vacation these the sources and and these perpetrators of this type of fraud have simply become emboldened and more clever and so I would click characterizes as additional services that are on intends to provide add to the members it's an opt in by the members themselves. But at least within the you of a system based on the audit findings that you have heard from you today we feel that this is a wise investment as we move to a completely electronic system for handling or transactions. So usually with the I. S. in our and and related order going to it's usually a. The end user pays for the service that are on provides so in this model or we basically going to give the service to the and users at no cost. That makes sense arms I usually did the I. S. as a cost recovery agency and typically we've seen this as a cost recovery type before but in this case it doesn't sound like we're going down that track is that correct. I'm not opposed to this by the way I'm I'm just trying trying to figure out what the how're doing this. Your represent makes this is Melissa rest with the university of Arkansas system are are on excuse me director is unable to be here today so I'm gonna do my best in answering your question issue probably know the are on network is primarily funded from membership fees right from the various institutions that make up the membership you know which is all of the four year universities UAMS and the division of agriculture as well as all of the two year colleges that are located across the state and so all the institutions for membership fees and the in the institutions also pay for services that are on provides in so I would view this is another service that are on provides that the members would to pay particular fee for that particular service now exactly how that will be a paid for and what that will be the specifics of that I I'm afraid I can't you know provide any detail on that but I would you this is a service not unlike other services that are provided by our own okay and so if it's a service that the actual users are going to be paying for then more than likely we won't be using the three million dollar perforated three million dollars in general revenue other than maybe just as a start up. And then going forward it would be. For that bill reasonable characterization. In in looking at the budget books and talking to the are on officials the three point four million dollars that was the actual expenditures to for two thousand nineteen two thousand twenty or basically made up of what I describe just a moment ago which were the fees you know for services as well as the membership fees from the campuses that are on his always requested a general revenue recommendation from the state it has yet to receive any general revenue mail in asking for a three million dollar recommendation from the state it's my understanding that in addition to what Mister rice indicated that one of the things that are on really needs to do in the next couple of years is they need to refresh a lot of the equipment that to they had you know from the inception of our on that equipment is very expensive because I know you understand given your background and all and so that's one of the things in addition to some of the reserve that are on has if they want to be able to do is to refresh a lot of that equipment and so obviously if they received you know some general revenue from the stadium would be utilized in order to replace some of the equipment that is obviously you know past some of the date you know that that would be at its optimal use right and so that would certainly go towards being able to refresh some of a replace some of that equipment dot thank you thank you Mr certain. Thank you Representative so the if it is this a one time increase then to refresh that equipment or is it is this an ongoing base level increase the to be having on an annual basis. Three million dollars is being requested is the general revenue request and so we would be it would be an on going three million dollar increase it would be a base increase because clearly there is no general revenue so there is no there is no based general revenue four are on it is a it it's all. I mean the appropriation will be there in case the fees come in and and get to that level of three million dollars it's not going to be general revenue that we're putting in three million dollars. Representative Dotson based upon what I understand it's a three million dollar general revenue request that would be based funding for our online it's not a one time request a general revenue for the entity. So it will be annual three million dollar general revenue that is landing that is my understanding yes Sir Kay. Seat number represent a wooden you're recognized this is for the of legislative research your report on page two. The Authorized. Under this shows a issue be Beals losing our reduction of a hundred and seventy six thousand and there's several others down there is is most of that the productivity adjustment. Yes Sir when you said page two so that's the that's the treasury page yes Sir the the pages yes or that do that that does reflect productivity losses or gain this okay okay and then and then the notice that the Phillips community college of the witness the cart there's no request for twenty two twenty three or twenty one twenty two shows minuses are they not operating any mower or the because it is just take that money away what they're doing Sir they're trying to kind of consolidate and make their appropriation request simpler by instead of having a treasure in cash requests for to wit and state garden having six total appropriation sections are trying to consolidate it down to two just for Phillips community college they'll still be on thank you thank you Mr chair. Thank you Representative And. Seeing no other questions for this section. I believe. Senator Caldwell you had something to. Request. I have a motion the proper time. This is the proper time the I make a motion for the Arkansas higher education coordinating board recommendation for all institutions with the division of agriculture be drafted separate from the universe of Arkansas system bill. Right that's proper motion. The second. I have some questions on the motion. Senator just for a yes I'd like the The rationale of the reason for excluding a grant from the rest of it. Senator Caldwell would you like to speak to your motion of will we would we want to vote on it separately of senator Chesterfield from the on going issue with that with the division of a and. So we've for the additional going situation for the last five or six months. And this is at the university of Arkansas system this correct. And you have some issues. Would you mind a lightning access to the lobby more name to this concert concerns the sale of the universe or subdivision back land in my district district contract I'm familiar with and your me with that now we just had a little Mr when the time comes thank you. Right thank you senator. Senator Elliot I believe you're recognized Mr chair I I'm not as up to date on this as my colleague senator Chesterfield. I would be to put the question back on the table to is do you give me the cliff notes version if nothing else about life if you would if there you Mr chair if we could get that from senator Caldwell really to try. Okay Senator Caldwell if if I might I believe and maybe this'll help answered and clarify it any questions as far as this motion is concerned this motion is simply to have that division drafted separately so there's two by two bills the two bills I forget so there's a separate bill for us to consider during the session. Four four address specific that way it's not part of the an entire thing Senator No answers process for me but a process okay but it doesn't give you senator Caldwell would contact me further. delicious the. With an issue that we want to draft this separately and review further the process of the land sale the there's been several articles in newspapers and magazines of of about the of particular land sale hello this land was to acquire to the remain in public domain and yet university has contractor so deprived individuals and so we we should just want to a separate that out so that we we can address that you're in session. Could some of the university coming explain this to make from before they're doing what they're doing because I. I I want to understand this a lot more fully is this I'm not suggesting is not legit but I just don't know what I'd be voting on well since we have a active motion on the floor and we're in discussion phase if the senator would like to pull that down. We can hear from the no I'd like to invalid bills with units of the the only thing we're doing here is a process where we're not voting for against anything in the on the division back other than two graph to set in a separate bill so that we can hear during session as the the server part of their budget all right so we have an active motion on the floor were in discussion phase any other discussion on the motion so Elian yeah why why couldn't we what would prevent us from hearing it if we vote on the budget and don't in its totality of what will keep us from hearing this section of it was we get to the session that's all I'm I'm trying to just because sometimes when things get separated out they might have consequences for very good reasons are either even they're probably gonna consequences might not be bad but I just don't understand what that's going to mean are. It. Doesn't mean that budget could be changed in some way differently because is heard outside of the main budget. Will be a separate budget bills so just like any other budget bill you know it's subject to amendment Sir or changes it's not going to change the way the preparations are drafted for that particular what I'm asking if it remains with the entire budget could we still not make changes if we wanted to discuss is what I'm asking since I'm have boards to piecemeal this and try to figure it out. I'm sure we could but the motion that's on the floors as what we're discussing okay so I'm not going to get an answer from the university is that so I'll stop if I'm not going to get an answer not before we vote on this particular motion owns the. I'm not getting an answer okay drive my car didn't tell me you drove it all right thank you see number. Eighteen represented would. Chairman call for a vote on the question at this on the motion at this time. The immediate consideration. that's proper motion not debatable on favor say aye opposed. All right motion passes will go to the question Senator Caldwell motion. On favourites any opposed. Motion passes. All right we are at that point on today's agenda where we are done till one thirty. The we have one question here before we go and Before everybody runs out of here remember where your seats are at if you're not going to be here this afternoon please let staff know so they can clean your station and make available for someone else senator Chesterfield thank you now that we're out of discussion mode I think it is appropriate that we hear from the university system. As to what is going on with act right in their view I'd like to hear from for from the From doctor Bob if I'm not. fine with that doctor Bob if you this may be his last chance to talk about this this is going to the legislature. Thank you senator Chesterfield my name is Donna Bob at present the of a system I have mark Cochran with meet at Cochran is the vice president for agriculture and that I would say that the I understand senator Caldwell as point of view but the background of the situation is that The division of agriculture has had neglected. Has not been able to maintain a property so for probably the past decade at least and have an opportunity in addition to that to create a new rice research station which which would have as its inventory of soils are not available at the present time and if you remember agriculture to twenty one billion dollar a contributor to the state's GDP. And so our board under the it it has been given has given us the mandate that we need to chat ourselves of property said that are not productive and we have so the other properties across the the system that we're no longer using which puts them back on the tax rolls benefits for local governments and local school systems and we entered into this arrangement that was our plan to raise funds for division of agriculture and to also The fund is new rice research station take care of the deferred and critical maintenance cross the system hello doctor Cochran perhaps the fill in some of the details about that. I mark Cochran was service the vice president for agriculture in the U. based system or pine tree station is one of our largest ones we purchased it back in nineteen sixty it's about eleven thousand nine hundred acres we have we use it primarily for real property search but we also do some forestry and some wildlife habitat area there is a property that is obviously large of we are funding from the state covers about forty five percent of our expenditures and we go out and get a picture of neural funding for the other fifty five percent of it the reason why we do mostly row crop there is it is specific to particular soils but through our checkoff programs we do have supplemental income to run our programs we're in the forestry and the wood wildlife area it's very difficult for us to get the sizeable grants to be necessary to do what was going through we had two primary purposes in looking at this particular sale is it number one we had some encouragement to look at our properties and if they were under utilized and we were using not able to use into full potential are there opportunities forced to work with the public and private partnerships to try to bring those in. In nineteen ninety nine we signed a lease in this property is been open for of public access through our arrangement with game and fish and revenue lease arrangement that we head of the second motivation that we had is that are rice promotion board has the of the set of funds that are rolled of probably once in a generation opportunity to do something to really have impact and of the rice industry one of the the ideas that they have really focused and to to use this money is an investment for the future of the Arkansas rice industry is to create a new rice research and extension center that's up on soils that would be Representative of the majority the rice acres that would be west of Crowley's ridge but north of I. forty two different soil than what we have at pine tree that that's their. Date of are using their funds and they ask us to be able to leverage their dollars to come into with our funding situation on the state I was not in a situation that I really wanted to dedicate more state funding to go into that match and so this was one of the opportunities that we saw that we could sell this property that we weren't fully utilizing we do have to go through a procedure with the the process it was with his son. purchased under it need to congressional waiver on a deed restriction so we were working through that and that the process we also needed to get a buyer that would be interested in continuing the public purpose that's mandated off of that so so we work with game and fish for about a year and a half and they were not in the position that they were interested in purchasing it off of it and so we went this private wrote all the sale it would be about sixty three hundred acres of the total that were there so the remaining acreage it to would be our intent to continued with the arrangement working with game and fish to provide the open hunting and fishing all in addition to the the matching and down that is the new rice station and it's it's it's a of purposes in research and extension but it's about six miles south of Jones per on highway one there it's a great opportunity for us to add an extension an education center to really educate the broader population about what we do in agriculture about the rice industry the potential uses of price we would like to greatly expand the domestic consumption of rice we produce about half the rice that the United States rose in any particular year off of it also before we go into the whole thing. Okay I'd wanted to review the cliff notes version of but I appreciate what you're saying but I am concerned about getting to yes for both you and senator Collins. because there is great concern that area about land that has been use by citizens of that area and they are very much concerned about losing the access that they have yeah have you work with senator Caldwell to get to a yes for both of you yes we're trying to work through that we that's all I need thank you. Alright thank you senator Chesterfield. Senators Stubblefield I believe it is C. eighty eight. Thank you Mr chairman but Cochran of what is it what is the current status of our congressional delegation on this issue. They have expressed concerns about the the reservations that are put through I think that we're looking to through and we're working with our buyers we have been executed contract that they've expressed a willingness to step aside and give the state the opportunity to come in and purchase it if it could and then be able to continue with the state would not come through so I think that that's kind of in a holding pattern right now waiting to see what happens within the this section here. Health of the company V. been offered more from another entity no the only offer that we have is the one that's in or executed contract. March thank you. Thank you senator Representative Payton. Thank you Mr doctor Cochran does the you of a system pay any of the real estate taxes on or we do not own. So we know that the okay twelve funding is reliant on property tax with this sale converted to an entity that will be paying for sex. I'm Mr answer. Yes thank you thank you Mr chair thank you Representative and we also have Representative house. On zoom. If we can get him on muted. Representative house you're recognized for a question. Good morning I had some concerns by constituents and is it is it just a rumor or is it true that the game and fish commission offered you a million dollars more for the property is what you sold it for this price no offer from game and fish we work with them for a year and a half and they came back and said that they were not in a position to purchase the property and had other priorities so we have a from game and fish at this time however thank you. Thank you Representative house seeing no other questions thank you doctor bonded and members be back at one thirty we are adjourned recessed.