Agriculture, Forestry & Economic Development-House and Senate

Good to see you all here today. Okay we'll call this meeting of the joint house and Senate ag committee to order. First item of business Mr co chair do you have any comments to my. All right silence from the Senate all right we'll see if that remains the rest of the day. But what first item up for business in our last meeting we had some unfinished agenda items that are we want to take up here first up on the queue we have secretary west ward to come regale to us the feral hog task force and what's going on in the land of hogs. Thank you Sir west for from the Arkansas part of our culture and I appreciate your given us the opportunity come back give a give an update on feral hogs that the that topic itself has been won as you all know was been the topic of growing interest every year as we've seen feral hog through really throughout the state in all seventy five counties so what I would like to do is give just a very quick overview and then turned over to JP fair had to give the current status of of some of the efforts but just a a brief history on the feral hog efforts in Arkansas back in two thousand sixteen really there was uh a lot of questions about feral hogs and how to address that issue and that led to you in the two thousand seventeen legislative session was the creation of A feral hog eradication task force that has twenty two members in and that it was great direction ten two thousand seventeen and require the task force put together report on some recommendations on how to move forward so that expired one year later in June on June thirtieth two thousand eighteen but the task force continue to work up into that point worked on a report and then continue the efforts to anymore you beyond that sunset that that was created directing Tim so the bill hog eradication task force to exist created that report work to us miss recommendations and the two thousand nineteen legislative session and appreciate the legislatures help and support and in some some changes in Arkansas law to help in the replication efforts across the state that included to adjust the clarifying the definition of feral hogs some increase penalties on transporting feral hogs an aerial gunning permit through the livestock and poultry commission and some brown of him forcing authority for all law enforcement entities throughout the state to be able to take action when someone was transporting feral hog illegally so at the same time that was in two thousand nineteen legislative session. Back up just a little bit two thousand eighteen for bill created a pilot program that was the the federal farm bill was signed in late two thousand eighteen and we worked to through huh that broad range of of partners to the task force to submit a proposal for the state of Arkansas in two thousand nineteen and Arkansas was the award at three point four million dollar grant on those efforts so moving forward from there there's been a lot of work over over the last year in particular and into this year on on that USDA pilot program a broad range partners participating and and moving from there will be working with the with the feral hog task force when it started myself in a Chris Cartledge more console game fish essentially co chaired that effort and so this past July we transferred the reins of the for a hard task force to J. P. fair head as well as Luke Lewis with the game fish to culture that effort moving forward and so we're very pleased to have JP with this that we were able to to bring on his position to the Arkansas department of agriculture is the first feral hog corner for the state of Arkansas that was something that we identified in working through this process while we were often get a lot of phone calls and questions about feral hogs to the department of agriculture because of their impact on agriculture we don't have any dedicated staff for or or funding or personnel to help with that effort so as to the USDA grant we were able to bring on J. P. as a first for all coordinator for the state of Arkansas I'm very pleased to have him on board we still in from game and fish so your was very much involved with feral hog efforts with them before we brought him over to take this role within the department so with that Mister chairman I'll turned over to to JP to to give the current status of of efforts in the state. Thank you Mr chairman members of the committee good afternoon thank you all for allowing me to be here today and you guys of a brief update want to touch on what secretary ward said just give a brief overview of the NRC at USDA NRCS for else one revocation control pilot program this again this is established in the two thousand eighteen farm bill and it's it implemented jointly by the USDA animal plant health inspection service or a phys well I services as well as in our CS currently there are twenty projects across ten states at about sixteen point seven million dollars there's also an opportunity for expansion I'm not an additional ten states to make it thirteen later on actually currently under review right now by NRCS the pilot project will consist broadly of three coordinated components and that's feral swine or hold removal by a fist restoration efforts supported by in our CS and then assistance to producers for feral swine control through partnerships the partnership agreements with nonfederal partners these projects can last anywhere from one to three years and can could be funded up to one point five million dollars per project with a non federal matching twenty five percent the Arkansas for those of you not familiar of school background the Arkansas feral swine program involves a lot of collaboration between or CS aphis natural resource division of the department of ag game and fish commission and then university of Arkansas division of agriculture or formally cooperative extension they're gonna be doing a survey portion of this also most importantly is probably the involvement of the local solar water conservation districts the pilot program is is actually consisted of four project areas of twenty two total counties and. It was the west Arkansas River valley north central Arkansas southeast and southwest Arkansas each project area compare a complete was comprised of tier one and tier two counties with with our intention of the folks that put the grant together start the effort to want to counties and moved into tier two counties in successive years after removal efforts could and damage assessments could be documented and evaluated the initial carries the southeast Arkansas or Arkansas actually Andrew himstedt Howard severe and southwest Baxter Izard Merion north central we also have Logan Sebastian yell county is in the west Arkansas River valley the grant funds are used to hire ten conservation to district technicians purchasing and purchase equipment needed for those for those project areas those technicians or will assist avis to provide fails one removal efforts to private land owners within those to your county areas USDA aphis eight USDA aphis is poor this agreement agreed to bring on at least one additional technician within each problem project area although I think those numbers of it bumped up a little bit more hopefully by the end of the year they're gonna about eight folks working in those farm bill tiered tiered areas there's also an educational outreach component to this project which may include landowner workshops feel day's demonstrations news articles social media out recheck center there's also a damage assessment survey portion that will be conducted by universe of Arkansas division of agriculture it's important to note that that survey that they're developing is is very very similar to the other surveys that are going to be used across the other ten states that were funded for projects so that hopefully the in the two to three years will have some some good documentation of success or at least some good damage estimates and some remediation involved with this program. at this time all going to get into the update of where we are currently with the project as Wes mention this was this started last year about this time with the grant development proposal we department of agriculture that time submitted that grant in or CS in late October I think they were war they were announced that they were funded in late November early December and at that time it was agreed by NRCS and and natural resource division take two instead of have for individual pilot project there is they were going to combine those project areas for for ease of distribution of funds so that process took a little while to revise the scope of work and natural resource division got a finalized agreement within our CS for the funds in April twenty fourth of this year at that point we move forward working with individual conservation districts to advertise those program technicians and coordinate those interviews with a fist natural resource division and even game and fish in certain instances to date we have hired all too in technicians the first technician started July the twentieth and the last two technicians started Monday we had a pretty lengthy gap that in in timing there not going to go into detail we have that but we're all wearing masks yearling probably see what happened there the next step in the process is to continue to get the equipment procurement of the vehicles ATVs and other supplies needed for these technicians to assist a fist with doing their job of of removing removing feral swine are feral hogs in the field and these technicians currently are training with avis aphis is providing some technical oversight technical adequacy of these these trappers throughout these districts so that they're utilizing the most up to date technology that most. cohesive message across the the pilot project area where we get the biggest bang for our Buck there's also a landowner sign up period there's also landowner permission forms that need to be gained and so we're working through those issues with those technicians and some of the folks that started earlier and first part of July they're actively trapping with and assisting USDA aphis right now with removing for else on within those farm bill counties. the next step is developing those out reach components working with the division of agriculture again to to tease out those final details of the surveys and really wants landowners signs up they will be participating in an annual survey that documents pre and post removal efforts on that and then also working with individual conservation district because each no actually county differs greatly then Sebastian county or Marion County which is crooked creek conservation district in their needs FOR out reach within those. Within those county so we're still working working through those Average components. Moving on to potential round two first line Pollock project funding opportunities I think it was relayed back in July around July first of this year that in our CS announced that they were considering supplemental projects and FOR remaining funds under the two thousand eighteen farm bill there's two different types of funding avenues there's a supplemental of existing projects AS which we currently have into one areas those are non competitive but they still require a a nonfederal twenty five percent match the second Avenue was a development of new projects of any time any project that was considered outside the scope of work of the tier one project or outside the geographical area would be considered a new project those projects were competitive with another an additional three states for total thirteen states and again those were required a twenty five sit nonfederal match some of the initial discussions that NRCS aphis and natural resource division that we had was expanding based on the initial wording of the initial grant was to expand that into tier two project areas which would be some some different counties and I'll get into those in a minute the similar structure would exist hiring technicians and getting them to assist avis still do the workshops the educational outreach component get extension to do surveys to document success over just basically a larger geographical stick Gail we worked with Arkansas association of conservation districts the department agriculture game fish farm bureau and I am an extension to develop a draft budget and submitted that on July thirty first two in our CS for consideration that project actually the would move into Boone Fulton Searcy pope's got pie Clark innovated G. the Sheik and Chico counties and again we've not. Received any official word from in our CS were more that supplemental funding is in the process at this time but that was the general consensus we did not develop any new projects outside of the geographical scope based on some commerce conversations with conservation districts match requirement was was going to be an issue for those federal dollars once we did some math with those districts it was going to be rather prohibited to try to move into a new new project area. again those projects again were were subject to twenty five percent nonfederal mansion that was limiting bona because Arkansas department of agriculture and and several other partners pitched in on the first round of funding as well and then lastly just wanna update on the project we hope to hear something within thirty to forty five days of July thirty first on the supplemental project funding once we do that will work with our partners if there's an amount given work with our partners the task force to identify that nonfederal much component and and make the best proposal we care moving forward to to hopefully move into tier two areas. And the last this project in this current project even with the supplemental project would would be scheduled in September thirtieth of June two thousand twenty three that's both to wanted to tier two projects so that does expire at the end of the farm bill two thousand eighteen farm bill Moving along the last item that I have is just the a brief update on the feral hog eradication task force as a secretary ward mention on July eighth we met myself and Luke Lewis for elected co chairs of the task force and Luke Lewis is with Arkansas game and fish commission and and we certainly enjoy working with each other and and working with the task force on this partnership moved for at the last meeting we did discuss the the initial feral swine project and we also discussed funding opportunities for round two projects and then again a sector were mentioned the aerial eradication or will governing permitting process which was kind of new to the part of agriculture specifically livestock and poultry division they were tasked with permitting private landowners the. Granting private landowners the permit to allow a contractor to come in on their property and remove pigs using a helicopter other other aerial equipment and we appreciate the legislate legislature to make that make that happen and and again that process was was new and we had four plans back in the spring submitted to the department of agriculture for review livestock and poultry issue twenty seven permits and eight hundred fifty hogs were removed under those twenty seven permits Moving forward we are looking at myself and and director fiscal or livestock and poultry looking at that application process to try to optimize that a little bit smoother maybe go online before. Basically this winter leaf off and conditions FOR suitable for those types of operations were looking to optimize that application process make it a little bit easier for landowners and also potentially to reduce some of the complaints that that were received of the department of ag. one other highlight I want to mention is the feral hog handbook was recently finalized which is was the for of all handbook is basically a a small document it's a one stop one stop source for feral hog control resources and information that was funded through an NRCS grant Stephen Meeks and we finalize that back in mid August and we hope to distribute that I must say first anytime starting in October sentences soon as it's for the printed versions are complete again that's a very useful document it has all the resources from all the members of the well not all the members of the task force but the members of the task force that have resources available for feral hog control those are listed in in the handbook and it has some one there's one number to call statewide which goes directly to USDA aphis and it's a good source of of of baseline information and resources I think we have fifty to seventy five thousand copies of that schedule be printed we've got some banners together to trade shows and and other And and other outlets that we can get that out I think we plan to get those two to farm bureau and our partners within the task force to distribute within across the state. and again that's really all we have on the task force except for we do have a meeting coming up in in one week from today where we will be discussing a statewide data collection application that is a GIS based mobile app if you will and and we hope to discuss that with members of the task force in hopes of ruling that out to the general public private land owners that that wish to submit removals or sightings or or what have you just be a part of that and this is GIS basin it was developed the partnerships with game and fish and it allows pretty user friendly interface that You know myself for another agency personnel that's not tied directly to the farm bill program can enter data into that and give us a little bit better better handle on the number of hogs that are removed and and quite possibly some of the methods that are that are being used to remove those those talks well said the pilot project update which I just gave you guys will be sharing that with the task force as a whole and then also committee updates which which includes management control legislative and policy in an education and outreach and one thing I didn't did mention is we met yesterday with the education out reach committee and you know really want to push the the fair all task force the handbook that I hope to get a press release out on that soon and just kind of showcase the highlights of the of the task force is a hole in the partnerships that we're continuing to develop. Okay sounds good as she does get any questions on the first time okay sounds good first off Senator hammer you have a question or comment. Thank you Mr chair on the twenty five percent state match dollar wise what's that going to a quite to that you'll be looking for for rent. Round two funding yes Sir based on the the proposal that we submitted it's going to be around a million and a half dollars I think we submitted a proposal for around two funding somewhere in the neighborhood of three point six million dollars are you all working that in may I Mr sermon thank you are you all working that into your procreation budget for upcoming budget session or what your what are you looking as far as funding sources to get that one and a half yes we we would be looking into working that into the appropriation but that the general consensus is that even though we ask for three point six million dollars we don't the RCS may come back with a reduced amount and at that point we would go back to partners of the task force asking for in China in cash contributions we had some discussions with farm bureau another there's some members in the in the audience and and they had already agreed to donate a vehicle for the project so we've got a little bit of match their we've also got in kind match from extension we just have to get firm commitments from from those other partnering agencies so that number will likely decrease from that okay and then I know you're getting the infrastructure built because you had to get the personnel hired on and the traps bought and sounds like yet the personnel pretty much in place or get the training. Where would you anticipate being a year from now as far as measurable impact I think you mentioned eight hundred fifteen was that was that killed through the aerial application was that what you said. Yes Sir that was that was killed through private landowner permits for through livestock and poultry division that's not including anything that USDA aphis those included in their numbers from from their operations six S. is gonna be very hard to define I know other than a body can't we just have to look at it numbers of hogs removed across those pilot pilot county areas and hopefully look at a per unit catch effort and see where we all. Okay alright thank Mister thank you senator Cooper you had a question. Thank you Mr chair of. When we passed the the law concerning transport. Can we tell if that's working. Of are you finding any. Transportation being done right now hours the. Or not. That's that's a very good question of the I think initially it did it did slow down somewhat I think the closing the loopholes in the enforcement allowing any seat any certified law enforcement officer to enforce the statute is certainly helping them the matter it's just one of those it's a very. Very difficult statue to enforce and we're slowly working our way to making an impact on that but you including that in your out reach yes Sir where the yes Sir yes Sir okay. border states are they doing the same thing we're doing. That's a good a very good question also running states are part of the project the NRCS an avis project every state is doing something a little bit different which is what's very unique about this program Arkansas probably had one of the more ambitious projects in actually hiring technicians I believe Oklahoma is using a trap loan program to where in our CS is buying traps and letting landowners used Alabama's doing something similar Tennessee was not included in the first round but they are the second round in Missouri is included in the second round and and then Louisiana is doing something similar to a trap loan program but Arkansas was one of the few states that actually hired technicians to run those traps okay and if if I may that's one one of the good things about the survey that were working to extension with is is hopefully at the end of the year too we can look at what states if another state certainly doing something that's working I think other state you gonna look at that an adapter programs to fit that model well okay my point was if we clean up around the border area and they're not doing anything the. We're not going to be very effective that's right of. The complaints that you talked about the which is that noise. I think it was no worries and I think there was also use some. Landowner's that did not grant permission for their property to be incorporated into the flight plan. And and so that is a basically the helicopter was flying places it it did not have permission to be flying and and if I can of telnet server J. please write so as people were submitting their plans they would have a large plot plan that would fly over private property and so for more and we wanted to make sure that if people were going to be conducting gunning aero gunning operations on private land that they had landowner permission to do that and so with that costs a little bit of friction and that's what JB was talking about as far as streamlining that process we we want to make sure that as he's permits are issued that one is for a bona fide for a heart problem that they're they're using it for but to but if they're conducting these operations that that they're doing it on on land that they have permission to do so with that we're not button unnecessarily anybody at risk for for people find these operations in the future I think that makes sense of the land owner needs dope some but it will be out there doing that okay thank you. Okay I represent helmet you have a question. Thank you Mr chairman. Over Labor Day weekend I spent five days upon the buffalo river. And I was. Somewhat dismayed by the areas I saw there were some. Size half acre it is like look like it dug up with the show does anybody know her have an estimate of how many feral hogs or in the buffalo river and is that population going up or going down. I think hello JP answer this to you but I I think the the population number is is the question and I think that's what this after this is intended to help help eliminate some uncertainty on as as best as we can we just don't know we get installed I mean how many feral hogs are there in Arkansas that no one no one really knows but hopefully as if we get this app go in and get it broad distribution of the public can use that the agencies can use it I that will start to get a better number of of dogs that are seen killed another one sent in by what areas of the state those or I I do think you make a great point about the buffalo river and that ties into some of our efforts with the buffalo river conservation committee and the topic has been brought up if you know they're they're still some funding left in that if that might some of that money might need to go towards for Aug efforts within the buffalo river watershed. I've got more on or maybe not a question but a comment I got a friendly is a big flat he bought one of those feral hog trance from sales and he called me the day set similar pictures to David hawkers mark. Are hard to trap while. Okay send all other questions thank you for the report very informative and Usually sign Arkansas go all this but member may not be appropriate here that. Yeah the hawks thank you but anyway all right thanks are Wesley just well keep your say there because of last meeting we had some testimony about the dark Campbell issue and and some concerns about some of the fines members of the committee of thank you all received the miles with the report from the state plant board on the fines and that it had been issued levied an updated on that so what else take it over and tell us a little bit about to where we're at on the dock camp issue currently. Yes Sir and I'll be very brief for my remarks here as well and all of that Mister Scott Brady give an update on the numbers but I just following up from the last and committee meeting last month that we have have pulled up with a couple legislators who had some additional questions on some items but also to have have submitted to this committee the the monthly report that we have been previously submitted to tale city so I would just a and general make the comment that if if there items at any legislators are interested in or have questions on any of that or or like to see the report that we submitted and in a different format or in in a different way we would we be more than happy to do that for August I came to both of theirs or or still to items that that take up of a large amount of time within the department to certainly high priority issues that that we're dealing with but let Mister Scarborough give a an update since the last committee meeting. Thanks to your good afternoon everybody. Currently for twenty twenty we have received four hundred and eighty seven case files associated with pesticide enforcement of that four hundred and eighty seven two hundred fifteen or alleged doc Campbell. And seventy four of those were generated from call ins from the Audubon society. Compare that to twenty nineteen we had a total of four hundred and sixty two cases called in Two hundred and ten of those were alleged doc Campbell and twelve of those were called in by the Audubon society. We have not started processing twenty twenty cases yet we're still working through twenty eighteen and twenty nineteen cases we have issue sixty five cases with some proposals that amount to one point eight million dollars in civil penalty offers of and these are going out each violation at the mid range not the maximum. Of the of sixty five twenty nine have been contested by attorneys and they are in discussion with our legal team as to how will proceed to sell those whether they're gonna be to reach a settlement or they'll have to come for board for hearing another five the we at the staff level settled through an informal hearing process. each of those settled for quite a bit less than the initial offer for instance some one one out at an offer of twenty five thousand and we were stable settle that it three thousand one hundred twenty five dollars. We had another that went out at twenty five thousand we sell it for one thousand five sixty two and that pattern continues through the other three three thousand one twenty five settlement of four thousand one twenty five settlement and another four thousand one twenty five so. Three of which have made it through the process of pesticide committee review and approval and board approval earlier this month. As far as comparisons. back to twenty nineteen of those two hundred and ten dot CamelCase files of one hundred twenty seven of those ended up with and we found no violation and fifty eight of those we did find a violation comparing that to twenty eighteen out of the two hundred alleged act CamelCase often twenty eighteen one thirty six we found the violation and sixty three we did find violations and again back to twenty twenty I don't have that breakdown yet we're just starting to get those in from inspectors and staff is starting to sort through them and determine if there are violations present levels. Does anybody have any further questions. Thank you Scott represent Jett I thank your first on the to hear thank you Mr chairman Scott apologize as kind as rough math on this let long AS one item on their shoulders you go back to what you time as is any any farmers come to you that you just said that we state plant board messed up and of was being almost farmers L. harmless. No Sir we have not had any of that the ones that have come to us we've been able to negotiate the civil penalty lower based on you know we've got a criteria were we look at cooperation we look at first offense we look at the actual application what it was it you know an application to an entire field or was it just to the term role or was it made with hands prior so we're looking at those details so no Sir we haven't had any where we found that our inspector or our staff just filed up and we Do you feel good person about the the system the way things work and now do you feel good yes Sir under the the sector you feel good about the way the sessions work I mean a lot of folks in this room have a lot of the respect for both you guys sitting here today the feel good about it as well I think it's a very time consuming process and and were taken as best as we can and then and doing the best we can with the with the number of complaints and the resources that we have yes or I don't know that we can approach it in and any different way. Mr my I have a question about Audubon the the path they sent out on all of you on what our bond comes up here but the question is going to go to the gentleman there are good page twenty do you have do you have the sheet from. Exhibitor two I. Yes Sir on the. Discover your turn over to page twenty yes okay page one is kind of my my neck of the woods so I'm sitting in a rough map on his lap longs and there shall one I guess what fifty one examples on one page. So when you do the rough math on the let long just less than ten miles firm and that number is probably not exact but it's close I would think. So we do the math on the let longs from the from from the furthest to the furthest what what reading in a ten mile every year not one could argue eating all that would we all think this black and would result in it's pretty volatile but we're operating in ten all the area here so one one as you could argue that you know this might be actually just to violations and we're showing Fifty one cases here. So I mean what right now that skews the data of what we're looking at. So I I guess my question is is everything on this page is this is this and is this something that Audubon's right to use that saying that there is we found an example and we're going to file a complaint or is this just one she stand alone by itself as far as an a complaint filed if I understand this correctly each each of these let longs. Represents a location typically feel that well but not a but but I mean it could actually be a term role or a ditch or whatever wrecked okay yes so say for example you have a section of ground the section of ground you know six hundred forty acres and more time at a mom mom mom mom four score around right. So on you go lie from northeast corner to the southwest corner you could actually be three miles crosser two and a half miles that right some like that so you take actually in this in this one page you could actually take four sections ground. In some and and one farmer has sprays one time off label in you could like to be ten miles so I guess what I'm asking you is is this each each fifty fifty one of these examples here is this turned in as a as a complaint so you got fifty one complaints on this one page each location is worked as a separate complaint yes so so in other words so another words I go out in your quarter mile down the road or whatever and pulled I mean because we look at is that long as you're looking at some of these less a quarter mile apart if the case file as it develops if the evidence supports that two or three or more these are associated with one application that would be rolled and to it would be determine if that was rolled into one case file or two it would it would just be determined if that was a result of two different application same farmer two different applications to different days or sign former one application Sunday we do our best to to sort that out in the sum is that laws I'm looking at here is a thirty six degree twenty three And then you look through here I mean you're looking at I'm actually like one two three four five six actually five of the five five or six year and then you got to. And if two or three of these or more of these happen to be one in the same field than they are considered one location one field one case. I guess what time at different things here I don't understand your answer because. You know we're talking about. You know some is this is we're talking about court is let long as we're talking about listen a quarter mile apart. I don't know very many fills up my part of the world listen forty acres I know there's been a few twenties or whatever but most bills or forty eighties on a sixties three twenties. You know not I see this let long Sir and in you know I'm look roster you see on there less than a quarter mile apart you show on several complaints. Less than a quarter mile on what I'm saying listen at ten miles square here. So I guess I'm asking how we'd arriving at fifty one. Complaints on one page that's that's in a very were I mean when you look at the map even the map shows you got pins on top opinions on top opinions. So I guess I guess I'm asking. Are you guys using complex better well saying to use common sense to figure out. Is there like a forty one eighty between each field let's or each example that we're fine and I can but usage or are we just looking right on top of each other. We we're investigating each location each location typically represents a pee wee point Jones entomology let me ask you this got sacked call you up so I'm going down the road I see one of my former neighbors and I it's got a forty acres there and on the southwest corner I see a pic we in the ditch the at and I go to the southwest corner and find another P. we did not call you up I got Scott I'm I'm about to complaints that's what looks like to meet seven on this paper here in mid may and reported that way but in the end it would wash itself out as one case okay correct so so what you're saying is it could be what I'm saying what what what this is about my college scene fifty one cases here could actually be maybe four cases with you is that what you're saying. I don't know that it would roll I don't know that wash out that's small but it was house got some of these locations would represent could represent the same field okay so let me make sure we're all here in the same thing fifty one fifty one cases on this auto been Audubon example here. In which you that could actually be a certificate number without putting a number to connect to be a significant number less than what we're seeing here yes thank you thank you Mr chair yeah and if I may I would just a echo that born in that I see represent jets comments there and just looking at number forty six thirty forty eight it's the same point and entered supporting a trail same same side so I'd thank you have how I would explain it is that if someone calls in a complaint or inspectors are going to do for each complaint and they're going to work through it but I think that goes to Scott's point earlier you know as we're looking at the number of complaints which which one of these are found out violations and a large number and may not have a violation that as they're working through the case file Hey this is the there all the you know these for complaints or two cases or. Board center but but I do have service in your point and I think that's represent of of the of the large number of complaints that are being called answer. I'm why don't we get back back to on that Joe here in a minute okay we've got several others in the can members I tell you what one bait this doc Campbell a fine up but we've heard enough of it throughout the years when they'd figure out what's going on with fines and and incident reports we've got some testimony coming up from the Audubon society of from the one through their report December here we don't have to limit them a little bit too just low for warning there because we've got other important business to deal with besides doc Campbell but we do have some questions and comments Senator Wallace you're next in the crew to. They all. Thank you Mr chair of first of all I like to compliment surgery ward and Scott the spreadsheet you all develop on the document. Finds some really really good staff working thank you for doing that A Mister chair my my questions or for the plant board I I don't know if they're in a room or not. A did you want to carry forward to come up and talk to him he's going to be up in a manner that you not always in a way you're white I wish I will go on there in a Murdock. Thank you chairman and my questions pretty much were long the line of Representative jets and just want to talk about the authenticity of these cases these inquire used to making sure that of how you feel you guys feel confident that what we're seeing is Representative what's of a It makes sense when these claims are being put their and I made in the in the later the investigation determines on what's really going on I guess there's a concern from farmers that everything is authentic legitimate and I guess as missed the plant will come for witnessed for we have a chance to hear a little bit more about this process of what's going on so that's my general concern as well but I think represent Jett hit most of it in general so hopefully will continue to get more as we get to try to make sure that everything is legitimate authentic versus any other issue of this related to that Campbell in the use of it in being hidden through some other practices thank you Jim. Representative Roger Napster Sir. Thank you Mr chair of gentleman on page nineteen. it mentions all right to forty nine and it mentions highway sixty four and also all assembly of god. Then if you flip over to page twenty one imagines all assembly of god which is the second time that it was written up and Pentecostal. Church of rural and give some bile those three on page twenty one or actually on highway one forty nine going sales of marked tree going to order rule I just wonder Fellers is there a reason why not one would be written up twice like the one on two fifty and also the one on four eight if your reason for a I I can't speak for this document this is the document produced by the Audubon society so I really have no information as to thank you senator that. Representative fires. Thank you Mr chair oak I've turned it off to go ahead and weights that I can hear from the Audubon society's presentation of information we've been discussing okay okay thanks okay your daily alright say no other questions thank you gentlemen appreciate it. All right so. Before we move on to our next Speaker from the Audubon society couple of matters I kind of skipped over gotten her get meeting started I wanted motion for consideration the man at the last meeting I have a motion second on favor signify by saying aye. Motion passed okay also. where you have a new staff person here with the ag committee Mister John Jones is joined this and will be working with act committee John take stand up take about. Right to have you with the serve. All right now moving on to our next Speaker still on the dark Campbell imagine that Dan Sherman Zach correct Sir you'll correct me if it's wrong with the Audubon society. give us a bird's eye view of this. I couldn't help but you know that you know that. Good to have you with the server and I'd hate to put a time limit on it but you your presentation looks rather long and detailed we just don't have that much time Sir so give us an abbreviated version here okay thank you you're recognized. My name is doctor Dan Simon bird conservation director for Audubon Arkansas. And. I would. Is there all right up I'm here today to let you know that I can't that is more than agricultural issue also environmental issue because it affects the plants that birds depend on and at Audubon we believe that working lands can work for birds and people but this growing use of die camera is putting birds are risking her agricultural landscape so I filed on the hundred year tradition of Audubon to do community science and look at this issue train volunteer is in two thousand nineteen and twenty twenty to look for symptoms of that Campbell and native plants on public lands across eastern Arkansas. Thank you and this is the results we found this is the visual representation of table wine in my report these are a little these are the three hundred and sixty three the locations we're all about and volunteers found symptoms of die Campbell on native plants on public lands this is not P. we'd complaints this is a cross twenty counties in the fax a wide diversity of native plants and shows that campus impacts across the landscape and I wanna give a few examples this year I visited chalk bluff natural area in the northeast corner of the state this is a state owned property and I found I Cambon every tree and shrub in that fifty five acre preserve this is Paul Paul here but there is cupping leaves on every oak every home every red died at the parking lot and all along the trail in that preserve northeast Arkansas would heal Missouri hot zone for use of extend technology and die camera and it showing up on our natural areas and just a mile south of that natural area there was a story being field that was copping from and and which is a clear signal of die campus volatility. Last year a volunteer visited delta heritage trail state park and found multiple species with symptoms including this oak I revisited this spot this year and once again found symptoms on the trees there even worse symptoms in some cases and I really wonder how many years in a row can the treaty be hit like this before it starts to succumb to day camp impacts. And it does this tree provide food for insects that provides food for the birds. Right across the street from this part of the trail there's a soybean field in that soybean field there was paid we have been recently sprayed. Long after the cut off. I also want to parking archeological state park again multiple trees shrubs and vines showing by campus symptoms and this year plant board files show that Inspectors collected tissue samples that tested positive for die camera those of the red markers with the D. in them and and no to me thinking these cases were submitted by farmers not by Audubon and but I did I didn't know that the farmers are submitting those the time but I did see the symptoms that park in and around oral. Cemeteries and churches also get hit with I can but we found symptoms at thirty seven cemeteries twenty two churches around eastern Arkansas the stand to be small surrounded by row crops and you see symptoms a multiple trees species whose protecting these places from chemical trespass who compensates the churches if their trees dying need to be replaced. This cemetery roller swift is in Osceola last year plan for inspectors collected the wheat issue sample a tested positive for die campaign around I see ola those are all inspector generated complaints. Case files and your buys the Kaiser research station and as you know the kinds research station got hit last year in part because a farmer spray die canned within the one mile buffer that was supposed to be protecting the place and again Kaiser's gotten hit and the real research station has gotten hit. But if it is not just about the rain die camera in the buffer zone is not about use immediately adjacent to sensitive areas it's about landscape scale use in the build up to of that camera in the atmosphere so this is that landscape scale look at that there is Keiser in the center Osceola over to the right and look at all those places where positive tissue samples were collected doctor days nor as were the has said that if every farmer in Mississippi county you planted cotton in suede beans. Adopted the extent technology in spray die camera no other type of row crop could grow in Mississippi county and from the date I've seen I believe that I believe the effects I need to plants are equally as bad. And I just want to touch a bit not only about public lands but private lands real brief admitted homeowner complaints similar to the plant board this is one of multiple complaints I've blacked out the names for privacy reasons but this is one of multiple photos taken by an inspector at a person's house showing yes indeed there were die Campbell like symptoms and all the trees all the garden plants in the person's yard. The inspector also included photos of the surrounding row crop fields but he could not find any evidence of drifts note track of herbicide from one field across the road to the home but I can the is not the problem is not about drift during application the problem is volatility which occurs hours or weeks after applications are. If I could interrupt your little bit were all briefed and familiar with how the the docking bay issue is a problem how it drafts and moves involved allies is like I said we've got other issues to discuss how is this affecting the the the IBM population the birds in the state of Arkansas if you will get to that we know there's problems and so that's what we've got state plant board here to investigate complaints so so let's get to how this is affecting the birds and state of Arkansas to where we can move on thank you. It affects the habitats the birds depend on and the sciences out on how much is going to affect birds if they use continues during the growing season in the plant board is not tasked with defending thirds Audubon is that. Not your bill of we have some of questions here so you. Senator Wallace you have some questions. Hello Sir I'm over here Sir thank you for being here today is it legal The sounds I would talk about farmers but isn't legal for for our citizens to spray document or only yards and is in the state allowed this parade that camera in the our public grounds. Yes but those lawn applications I understand it is a far lower concentration and then what is used in agriculture. And I've amend the cemeteries in places I've been don't have well manicured weed free lines. I doubt die cameras being applied to those places in aren't or is it legal spray in the pastors is will. Yes but there's not a lot of pastor in this area this is dominated by row crops. Okay thank you. Absent fires did did you have a comment from earlier question. But there's about thirty I'll. Alright you're recognized. There you go Erica thank you so much Mister chairman. just as I listen to Representative jets concerns I just wanted to get some clarification on what these records indicate On page on the. Page is. Sixteen through. Twenty three. The table one in my report is a list of locations where do I campus symptoms have been observed by Audubon and volunteers on native an ornamental plants on public lands. Thank you and one of another thing Mr chairman You were taught you talked about the impact. And I know that The chairman just asked you about the impact to birds and their habitat but long range what what does that mean. What is the harm to use talk about environmental impact and specifically to birds long term what what is the harm that long term harm is that a gradual wearing away of the plants at the birds depend on cross the landscape and in my travels across eastern Arkansas I've seen a lot of sick and dying trees out there and I can but is unfortunately adding to that because of its volatility. Thank you so much thank you Mr chairman. That represent chair your action queue thank you Mr chairman I probably reading going and doing this but what I'm of the back page twenty because that's what this war on no to Clay County a good looking at the map in here's my concern I mean the numbers issue there's no doubt about the numbers if you and your school numbers against my constituent farmers are parks it with farmers that we're hearing separates mark a smile at me all you want to but I know the numbers if you do you're going beyond a shadow of doubt The county road numbers you got here a lot of these rows actually border Missouri so my concern is if you go over here and and in Clay County and border up on the state line for example you can border Missouri and Missouri's has a they follow federal law so I think it's forty five days past the planning date or something like that you get ripped out of Missouri come across Arkansas now because we got all is complying statement was going to come in this gate Arkansas farmers were next to the problems public maybe not all the time but you know I'm not I'm not naive I know what we have Arkansas farmers plane as print off label but also when you have the one St following forty five days past the planning date or one of the plan for the federal label and we come in here may twenty six so now you're looking at all these August I guess this August the eighth month is August I guess but the. In somebody's plan over was very right right there right to me actually farmer Missouri my son's got a farm Missouri in Arkansas in the state line goes right through the middle of a hundred sixty acre field in so when I'm center looking at these county road maps here on this county roads this board a lot of these roads border Missouri I mean I can argue that a lot of the stuff come across our Missouri on Missouri side of over a gravel road across the road and Arkansas you kitchen with the road engine and next thing you know you got ten ten examples routine claims filed on Arkansas farmers because it I can be ended up mark so I'm not Missouri were sprayed it so I don't want to send it back from me because I'm just I'm kind of disappointed with you come to this committee skew the data and trying to promote something that that is not is not is not true now we all know that can be is a volatile issue we all know its it does harm but we're trying to find a balance we're trying to find a fair and equal balance for the farmers will use it versus the folks that don't want to use it with folks like you come to this committee the show was data that is cute beyond a reasonable shot I would doubt A you're not doing you're not doing yourself for your your organization any good Mister miss misstatement. Thank you Sir Senator garner. You're recognized thank Mister what is your education in. I have a PhD in forestry and natural resources okay because I have many constituents in the forgery community in south Arkansas we don't really have to camp issue but I know people in the Arkansas forestry commission that's my father in law and other folks know people to plant board I haven't heard about this big issue with trees from our register Forster's or others that you're bringing up in it seems like if this is a dramatic problem affecting our tree population both the land owners who had the land the trees are now less proctor place probable would be bringing this up to us or would be here that complaint from the forestry commission or something else so is this is something you're assuming by your so looking out there is something you can back up what that are or have filed a complaint to the proper organizations that you are not part the government you're a nonprofit organization well there are pecan farmers that have been harmed and have submitted complaints that live in the delta so they're saying that they're trees have been harmed in the peach farmer in the bootheel Missouri recently won his lawsuit against Monsanto for the harm to his trees so yes thank you mean other people are reporting damage to trees. Okay thank you not thank you. Representative rob you're recognized. Thank you Mr chairman Sir once again on page nineteen which includes a two forty nine and two fifty U. S. highway sixty four and Earl assembly of god and then on page twenty one of four hundred eight is early assembly of god which is mention again and Pentecostal church of of rule and give shin bowel cemetery okay Sir those are all located on highway one forty nine approximately three miles north of our rural I what what I'd like to know Sir and I don't know if this questions come up yet but. Within those areas if you're having a problem with that. Do you have any problems other than birds are are trees did a you know this is very close to the to the to Ron's and the St Francis rivers do you have any. Situations where it's affecting the fish or anything like that I have not stated fish population. Okay. But can to be clear on this table these are native plants observations these are not be complaint submitted to the plant board these are not dis this table is not result in any case files of the plant board has. Thank you Sir represent fires. Thank you. I just. Wanted to what you can't answer the question I was just going to ask because I I am. Concerned about This issue as I've sat in on meetings and we are all very clear. You know anyone who's heard some of the testimony and seen some of the data that has come from our state agency that oversees complaints understands that this is a problem as Mr chairman indicated before. It sounds like what you came here today is to share with us the data that was collected based upon your expertise specific to. The impact to birds and the trees their natural habitats. That the problem that we know exist is having an impact on a larger scale than what we've been. Review to sell at you did answer my question before I was called on and with that I I don't see I'm not a farmer but I also don't see the data SQ if what you're saying is that you and other volunteers based upon the science made observations about native plant life and you documents that what you saw and the locations of what you saw that's what you're saying then I do hear what you're saying as being an issue of concern and something that we should continue to watch for. And just thank you very much for the information that you share with us today. Thank you Mr chairman. That thank you and Sir. Opened in saying short we've got a long agenda the ball this information referred to you before you have put a different viewpoint on to it into the severity and other places other than just on Paraguay done on on crops and we all locked or fine feathered friends we don't want them to be harmed but this is going to be ongoing saga for a long time on this dark ambition to let come up with more suitable product control the the page where but looks like you're getting complaints filed the plant board and then that's their job to investigate them thank you Sir with that thank you Sir. All right next on the agenda turn for. You wanted of three minutes there's what I was told I didn't know you could and so your nine and three minutes but what will put a timer on you say what you get okay. Really humid the this is not very slow but not not put pressure grain but Miller teria and release you Mister Douglas you know pretty slow thank pronounce low on active fuller farmer from east Arkansas I've got a couple of comments right here all of the following comments have been made by doctor forward Baldwin in documents provided to the Arkansas state plant board Dr Baldwin is an at Arkansas agriculture hall of fame member a fellow in the weed science society of America both highly esteemed awards twenty sixteen seven twenty five at the Arkansas state plant board quote the doc Campbell application to extend crops were off label but currently available formulations would have behave the same metal label been approved regardless these applications provided a real world look at what will happen if the technology goes forward as it currently exist compared to spring applications the MA in DGA salts of da Campbell behave differently plaid when temperatures are higher and susceptible crops in other vegetation have a murdered twenty seventeen seven seven A committee of the legislature in this room extend is an all or nothing technology I've written that stated that every time I've been asked to speak on the subject there are only two choices you stop the use of da Campbell at a certain date or you allow the current marketing model to force one hundred percent of the acres to doc Campbell twenty eighteen six twenty five a letter to the weed science society of America from the beginning there been plenty of published science and plenty of experience among our members to know that Campbell could not be sprayed on large acreages and summer temperature without a train wreck twenty nineteen eleven twenty nine to the Arkansas state plant board not very long ago volumes of sound science simply approve and that many of us already knew and relate to the board on the. The occasion since twenty eleven that of all of the locks and herbicides sprayed in summer crops simply cannot be kept on target twenty twenty eight twenty five in a letter to the EPA I have traveled extensively through Arkansas Missouri West Tennessee one South Dakota this summer in the soybean photos are very Representative of what had happened to any farmer who has the this city to try and grow any soy bean other than extend wire these farmers not receiving equal consideration compared to those who want to point the extent technology. Many other species including oaks Cyprus on a minerals or being damaged those may negatively impacted by dak Campbell are innocent bystanders all these remarks have been prepared by doctor Ford Baldwin there in papers that were presented to the Arkansas state plant board and I have a copy here if anybody would like on. Prove that I hadn't taken is quotations out of context and obviously would Dr Baldwin yesterday and emailed in this comment as well. Any questions there may be a time line yet you did two seconds to spare good for you Terry I found it for I believe. A bill thank you thank you Sir appreciate no questions that I say. Not I'm sorry Senator Wallace. Good thank came back it income a Michael thank you for the opportunity to go ahead Senator Wallace. Seventy. I'm on the need to cut off. No it's now Mona they almost got away and I'm sorry to have stopped. I got a spread sheet from and you may have sent also from The agricultural. division and then it shows that Mississippi county if I'm interview right and two thousand nineteen had about thirty seven thirty percent of all the cases is that drive with about what you're looking at if you don't have the figure I don't have any figures out received a copy of this brain spread sheet I ask board yeah I looked at it and uh. I do not you know nobody other counties I do know one of the concerns that's been expressed here today and I don't think quite late some yell really understood the information that doctor Sherman showed were volunteers had seen sent to myla G. and they dropped paean they're not necessarily plant board complaints of the question of those sorry which out of the business to to get on to just real quick it looks like Mississippi county at seventy six cases in two thousand nineteen states around or the Clinton had nine points ahead fifteen and cricket had twenty one I'm just trying to understand what the point of focus own Mississippi county. I really have no idea other than that's where people turned in the complaints from plant board complaint is generated by a complaint from a private citizen or when they're investigating the complaint the inspector may see another complaint there but any private citizen can't turn in a complaint the way I understand it and. So that's that's basically all I know about that thank you Mr chair okay thank you thanks third thank you appreciate you are moving on some sizes are campus by reading. All right last last meeting where you heard about issues with water quantity with groundwater depletion and other issues with with water in the state of Arkansas quote in Oper faces the university of Arkansas on nutrition the most important nutrient. Is it water without it none of the rest matter if we don't have water there's another issue besides quantity it's called quality we have with us today Dr Nick toll Hartman section director of the Illinois river watershed partnership in northwest Arkansas you goals going give us will update here on what's going on with water quality in northwest Arkansas their efforts and then we're going to concentrate on some problems we're having in urban areas with storm water runoff and sole string bank a Roach right Nicole thank you for being here appreciate it good to say you good to see you thank you for having me I am honored to be here and be talking to you about water quality is great. If you would. You have your nine yes for the record my name is Nicole part of and I am executive director at Illinois river watershed partnership. So these how do I get advance. Sorry. Our love what technical assistant will help you with that here. Thank you sherry. Okay. Yes so the Illinois river watershed as many of you probably know is up in the northwest corner of of Arkansas are water should actually the Illinois river proper actually begins in hog I Arkansas but we have several major tributaries and what I call the big for the four largest cities in northwest Arkansas Fayetteville Springdale Rogers and Bentonville so it as many of you probably know northwest Arkansas is rapidly urbanizing they say there are twenty eight people per day have moved in the northwest Arkansas since twenty ten or something like that and so you know our cities need to grow they have to grow they have to provide schools houses police departments fire departments for those twenty individuals per day but there are impacts to water quality that come along with that urbanization also in the Arkansas portion of the watershed are or to top producing counties for livestock and poultry production and so we get to do the deal with two very different issues when it comes to water quality management of the watershed extends over into Oklahoma down to lake ten killer and then on to the Arkansas River watershed has been a point of contention between the state of Arkansas and Oklahoma is historically there is a Supreme Court decision actually centered around the Illinois river watershed so little bit of notoriety in that regard but and it's over phosphorus concentrations so while there have been significant improvements in phosphorus concentrations over the years this is been an extensive community wide effort to the city's through wastewater treatment facility upgrades chicken litter transport programs buyer poultry company. Eaves nutrient management plan requirements for our livestock producers we're still not meeting phosphorus concentrations at the state line so it still is a consent constituent of concern for us. All rights to the mission of Illinois river watershed partnership we are a fourteen year old nonprofit organization is to improve the integrity of the Illinois river through a public education community outreach and implementation of conservation restoration practices I have some slides introducing the organization and then moving on to our specific topic Representative Douglas if I go over time just tell me. Our. So are sorry since the. Text boxes moved over there in the art board it is can consist of six different stakeholder groups we have equal representation among those stakeholder groups the idea being that we have a variety of expertise we have a variety of agendas and interests and we are all coming together to discuss how we can benefit the Illinois river watershed so on the agriculture front Arkansas farm bureau as John Bailey is one of my board members we have several a local producers in fact Representative Douglas if I remember was a founding board member at the organization. We also have the nature Conservancy the sustainability consortium and the master naturalist representation on the conservation signed also present our Oklahoma representatives from Cherokee Nation and Grand River dam authority so a wide variety of smart mines I get to consult with. The approach of our organization is that conserving restoring our natural areas in northwest Arkansas is cost effective improves water quality and preserves northwest Arkansas heritage we have seen northwest Arkansas transition I'm a northwest Arkansas native so you see it transition from agricultural landscapes to non agricultural landscapes we offer tool box of voluntary water quality management solutions to our landowners we connect rural and urban landowners to organizations that provide these tools and we find solutions that fit the short term and long term needs of the landowner so working hand in hand very collaboratively with our stakeholders and landowners in the watershed. So just a little bit about what we do we have youth education programs that are thirty acre watershed sanctuary where we offer free free field trips to public schools we have a series of what we call stakeholder education programs again focusing on best management practices in urban areas and on old agricultural lands for water quality improvement. We offer one on one consultation and conservation planning to our landowners working hand in hand with the cities and our local inter CS and conservation districts. And we have a two point eight million dollar fund to directly implement restoration practices for for landowners in the watershed both public and private lands. And we do assessment projects and one of our assessment projects is the reason that I am here to visit with you today regarding our stream bank erosion assessment. So back in twenty seventeen are to be P. embarked on what's called a stream bank erosion inventory or assessment and essentially it was to look at the extent of a revision across the watershed we knew antic totally we receive complaints on a weekly basis regarding stream bank erosion from both urban and rural landowners but we really didn't understand what the extent of the problem was and so what this is is basically you characterize a stream bank for several different parameters and then you feed it into a model with client cold it be high model or a bank erosion hazard index and the function of doing this is to number one as I said I understand the extent ever Roseanne across the watershed to prioritize areas for restoration practices and to really get a get a good understanding of how much settlement no loading and nutrient loading is occurring in the watershed and when I say new trance I'm talking talking about phosphorus and nitrogen phosphorous being a constituent of concern for us. So we examine nine hundred and eighty three stream banks which equated to twelve no sorry forty nine miles of stream banks across the watershed which unfortunately is only about five percent of the total thanks across the watershed for that study area what we found is an average erosion rate now this is a model so these are estimates an estimated five point two feet per year so if you look at this picture on the right hand side that is basically that cut bank moving five point two feet to the right into that landowner's property we had and as high as one bank was was estimated to be a rosy roading at forty two feet per year. seven loading just for the study area was just over thirty seven thousand tons per year and phosphors looting was found to be fifty six thousand over fifty six thousand pounds per year so just to put that in perspective phosphorus loading from our four largest waste water treatment facilities so one treatment facility approximately for each town learning twenty four thousand pounds so just study area is over twice the amount of phosphorus that a wastewater treatment facility is putting into the watershed so if we are going to work on you know watershed restoration projects to reduce phosphorus streaming corrosion is wet what we've got to address. So just a few pictures this is on the left hand side is money for it you can see the blue line there is where that stream bank was in twenty seventeen oranges where it was twenty eighteen and then the white on the far right is where it was in twenty nineteen on the top right is a picture from the Illinois river you can see one of the researchers they're at the very top of the picture just to give you kind some perspective on what that bank looks like. So just a summary of results so the thirty eight percent of the evaluated banks were losing at least one foot per year as you can see that and in that indicates what that indicates to us is there is wide spread erosion and that widespread erosion is happening across the entire watershed that watershed is completely changing as we speak. So I don't even care about that stream bank erosion well number one it's a loss of productive land so we're estimating right now we're losing about forty acres per year to stream bank erosion alone if you consider that probably the average price of an acre invent and Washington counties is going for five thousand dollars that's a lot of money lost every year just to stream bank erosion it's a safety hazard to people and livestock it threatens infrastructure bridges waste water and drinking water infrastructure and as I mentioned the additional sentiment nutrient loading not to mention the impacts to aquatic wildlife and associated species. So why is this happening and it all has to do with increased velocity in the watershed and so this is probably happening this dynamic is probably happening in many watersheds in your districts it's happening across the country and historically what what is happened is we've lost what lands some of been filled in sometimes it creek will be straightened or trench and loss of right here in force which basically just reduces the amount of water going into the going into the the stream. And so with that you know a natural river system always as it goes along its its reach it needs to expand and contract and expanding contract and that expansion is what allows the basically the energy of the water to dissipate it slows the water down if you get too much energy going down that stream bank then you will start to see erosion in northwest Arkansas as I mentioned we have this this high rate of urbanization so you can see up here and the figure in the upper left natural ground cover so you'll have for about forty percent of had so you have a precipitation event about forty percent of that will evaporate fifty percent of that will infiltrate down into the soil and ten percent of that will run across across the forest now northwest Arkansas we have what's going on in the upper right low density and lower left medium density and so you just have an increased amount of impervious surface so a drop of water that falls on a passed your land. It's fifty percent likely it's going to infiltrate down into the soil but a drop of water that goes in medium density residential area the likelihood that that's going to infiltrate is is seriously reduced and it will run off it will run off into your local your local storm drain and that storm drain in most cases is directly connected to a creek creek river or stream. So you get this example so this is a US Geological Survey gauge that is located in Springdale Arkansas spring creek it's right next eight Q. chicken house any given a queue and what you're looking at here is is basically just discharge the amount of water that's that's going through that stream channel on the far left is the year twenty twelve to twenty thirteen far right is is twenty nineteen twenty nineteen I should say is a was a wet year but between those two years we have a three hundred and twenty seven percent increase in high flow events so usually this creek is flowing at zero to one cubic feet per second that means it's completely dry urge just run and just barely on the far right you can see we're getting up to a thousand cubic feet per second per second that's in one thousand fold increase plus the number of events we've a significant leave a larger number of events that are high flow and if you get that much energy that much weight that much velocity from going to the creek bed it will start to destroy the the stream banks and we've had some pretty significant damage further downstream to the razorback green way and some issues around the Springdale wastewater treatment facility. So this is my last slide so I think it's important to note streaming corrosion in the Illinois river watershed is a huge issue now this watershed may be almost completely different than any other watershed in the state of Arkansas but you know eight one eroded bank is not indicative of a systematic issue thirty eight percent of road banks that's indicative of a systematic issue so it's important when thinking about erosion to think about a quote what's happening across the entire watershed. right parian four as well we advocate for them when you have a such of all the tile watershed the the water will still eat away at eat away at a forest I've seen you know. Fifty sixty seventy eight hundred year old trees get taken out by this amount of water identification of significant causes can be difficult because it's coming from everywhere but restoration is expensive and risky so if you do a good restoration it can be up to two hundred and fifty dollars a linear foot to to repair that sort A. millions of dollars but on the other hand locations to you know identify identifying locations for effective preventative measures so if by address flow in spring creek only can I guarantee erosion in the Illinois river will stop no that's a really tough and risky call to make. And so with that I would be happy to take questions again my name is Nicole Hartman with Illinois river watershed partnership this my contact information and thank you again for talking a little bit about water quality today. Okay members any questions from the call. So if you don't mind just sat right there because I've got a few pictures eight what with the committee's approval could OB show a few pictures of my own here that that I've typed in northwest Arkansas though gonna pay you back on to my girls. All right make sure if you to operate the the side slideshow we all know that our rainfall events are different than they used to be we get more dramatic rainfall and there's nothing we can do about that but. Our way so that's the question why is our findings happening OR things happen in the way they are of whenever you look at some of the crates and I'll be I'll be honest part of these are on my form of go about with three quarters of a mile all of okay little Osage crate that's a tributary to the one or on my place if you can say that free over their land there one thing we have with string by corrosion we have more trees that go into the creek we're losing our riparian areas which not only affect our water quality with nutrient loading but they also heat up the water because we don't have the shade to keep the water two and you have more algae blooms and more problems there next slide please share here's another trait big huge straight the sole washed out from under the trade goes into the creek that plugs up the crate when you get a wine follow that it floats. Another another tray in the correct. Get go Mr there's more roots some of these. Can't say real good not sure close up more trees in the curry. There we go again another no other trade that the Sauls washed out from under. Same situation. There we go again this is on a three quarter mile stretch on one tributary go ahead look at this strain by corrosion those are roots. From riparian areas bush is on the side of the creek that help hold the soil there but the souls abortion out for a white from those roots been used very out there more trees. I thank you all can start to get the picture here of what is happening here look at all that gravel and there's trees buried in there that's not on my place but it's down the road those rocks that gravel used to be contained in Seoul. Now then are strange or fill one up with gravel impeding the flow of the water there for it gets up in the bank's quicker and it floods and we have more erosion go ahead. More trades in the correct I went on a float trip in lower part of the Illinois river for about okay right that's rad picture okay that's much dogs I'm sorry but anyway. Of it's getting close to that top. What happens when we get a rainfall event now. That is a a pastor. That is a county road. That's another the that's my pastor right there. All right now then I hope home still just search I wonder always ask the question why why is this act. We've got more houses we got more parking lots we've got more impermeable surfaces in northwest Arkansas and an employer across the state. Where where you have urban development and growth. Whenever a developer develops a piece of property that I installed detention ponds or retention ponds there is a difference a detention pond during a rainfall event is supposed to collect the water that would run all and have a waiver or now what they would re read lace that water at the natural non improve state or flow. That that that's that's kind of the the fine you in the not shall as I understand it will have a due to come up here and help us with my definitions and assumptions sentiment here look at this one. That's a detention pond. It's got concrete for Weiss race white down through the middle of but look at the open and in that concrete we're. It doesn't accomplish anything. It won't hold prior to any water all that is is a final okay next year. This is a When the bill these detention ponds but I have a out where a call over the goes out and they're supposed to have a we're in front of that that moderates the flow. This where that's what back concrete wall is without opening their this one done hold any find back here again it's a final this is the retention pond next slide. And this. Is the out what. It restricts nothing. The restriction part those two concrete walls. I have more surface area or volume area then they. Calvert itself here's another one. I don't know how many of these retention ponds I've trudge through to look at and none of them hold water when it rains say there there's my dog you can see how big that opening news okay it holds nothing back. Just go one third day's somewhat now this is one that is a little bit better constructed in my opinion and that's all it is my opinion because it had a smaller opening then is upon filled up it would run on over and replace it but. Here again exits nothing to em paid the flow of the water. This is a big retention pond huge it's got concrete rice why right down the middle of it. And that's the outlet that holds nothing back. I guess that's all the the slides I had one or two percent sure should and put on there. But any white with with that being said I think we can say there is not a problem a concern here or at least in my view point. Jack McCall do you have a fine dire that after these comments or members are there any questions. The senator Cooper. Of. I'd like to ask you some questions about the the the large timber that falls into the strings. Of I've noticed it on some my land a brown member do kits on the ridge a gorgeous eastern Arkansas versus what you're talking about western Arkansas public. I noticed up there that if you have a large tree the the the. That falls in your that root ball is going to really take a lot to get out of the bank out with it. And the. from just a natural. Standpoint how is the. In your mind the best way to deal. Out on the farm land there is To prevent that kind of erosion it takes place in just three get agent up the. Of the soul and taken care it down with it because you you have a massive hole that you could see there on those pictures will this take place in every stream that were you have. over ten large trees what goes up must come down one way or another in. And I just don't like seat carry a lot of the soul down with it sure. Yeah so you know one thing about rivers is they they are always moving they in a county even then the natural state they're always moving I mean one thing that you can do to try to protect what you have in one thing we are. we encourage our you know right peer enforced so if you can you know give over some land to reforest some land that will help protect it up for you know the tree that's already down. And you're right this is the the worry is when you you know a tree goes down then that kind of creates a little Cup in the stream bank that will that you'll get water. Assaulting basically and it will kind tried it is it will exacerbate a revision issues you know there is evidence and this is like I think a little bit controversial even among the conservation community that should just leave the trees where they're at and it will you know create that opportunity to slow that water down I know you know on the buffalo they regularly go out and at least the outfitters will will clean trees out but from an ecological standpoint I would advise leaving it there actually. So it's better to leave the ones even that are laning there about the fall. Yes. You will get some stability from a tree that's about to fall versus no stability at all. So if that tree we're dead let's say the than the service visitation with the. Take the place of what the tree was doing. I'm sorry restate the question. Well if you have a large tree there's not going to be a lot of times vegetation grows under it in and if the if the tree was not there then you get some left there that would produce vegetation smaller vegetation not the tree but that ends and other things that would. Also beneficial be beneficial to the bank of the string yes so if you don't have additional erosion after the tree goes down it will hopefully re grow with Other stuff and eventually hopefully be a tree again there will there will be another tree that comes up well but my point of the question is it. It say if you were to kill a large tree then you would have smaller growth that would come back before the tree actually would fall. Sh yes. All right thank you that represent Barrett. You're recognized. Thank you Mr chairman the U. of all does information to question if you've already touched on the are we at one time Oklahoma and Arkansas of Oklahoma. And lawsuits against Arkansas for all the lower river because of the phosphorus levels or are we still engaged in any of those lawsuits. so actually doctor Bob is doctor Bob lance's here that true okay back there all right yes so he could probably actually speak to that question better than I could represent better of fact we're going to have I have that address will update on that her in few minutes when I do get you gets a okay that's that's fine in and Mr Cooper the the introduction of the famous beaver didn't help our streams very much either though no in my part of the world we have they'll know about in big pony and They seem to. Take that or make the Rhodesian problem a lot worse I know where I'm areas of them for me with the. Not blaming anybody but the beaver himself but he does do a lot of destruction. Damn favors thank you. Okay send out of the question the call thank you very much appreciate you appreciate what you all do in northwest Arkansas to to help up there on education and trying to. Preserve our our water quality thank you much for having me I appreciate that thank you Alright members I'm not trying to beat up on AT cure anything I'm just trying to point out to make calls saying problems up there other people saying problems and issues we need some answers of for for my due to A if you all would come down and you can update us on the Oklahoma lawsuit where we're at also Teles I don't know who's in charge of the design of these detention ponds and and the the storm water runoff permits and that. Educators and might be because of change in rainfall advances stuff we need to update or regulations or our our rules I'm not saying you know. Give us your all side to this okay. Bills thank you Michael repair department of energy environment. Brian lemons a senior manager also water quality department of energy and environment. I'm up lands and associate director for the office water quality in the in the division of energy and the department of energy A quorum. Why. The brand is prepared to talk about a year issues representing those with the with the storm on retention basins. Sure is best I understand there are a few questions from the legislatures about sort of house stormwater permitting works under DQ and I was going to give a quick run through that hopefully only take a minute or two but that's a big topic for such a short commitment so in a nutshell the state rules and federal rules for a storm water permitting one in the same the D. Q. and a PC any pollution control and ecology commission of adopted federal rules under forty CFR and the clean water act and we implement stormwater permitting to the extent of those laws and it's really done through a three major permits their state wide permits also known as general permits general permits or applicability to a class of facility types and the first one is a NPDES construction stormwater general permit and this permit is set out to regulate and control those construction sites you may see if your moved around your area driving around you see construction of a subdivision or a facility that has the the self answer check dams maybe even the settlement pond in the the intention of that permit is to up to regulate that turbid water that sentiment which may run off from the disturbance of the ground from that construction and that's not what I understand a big part of what we're here to talk about but I'd be remiss if I didn't mention two other permit types one of them is the storm water associated with industrial activity those are up a general statewide permit that would regulate and control storm water that falls on an industry site there's a variety of industrial sectors that this permit would control from in either mining sawmills any type of Miller manufacturing activity and other regulated by the type of facility. And type of industry which they are in which may dictate what types of monitoring for what types of pollutants may wash from that facility the other permit type is the municipal separate storm sewer system MS four and it has a long definition which talks about catch basins curbs gutters ditches manmade channels inside usually a city is is who is affected by this type of permit but essentially it's the the city storm drains is what's permitted and those permits apply to what the census bureau has designated as urbanized areas and the government entity entities that live in those urbanized areas usually cities but we do have a couple of affected colleges or universities also permitted under that permit so with that that's a very high level view the the three major permitting areas that we regulate and we're here to take questions regarding stormwater permitting. Brian can you talk a little bit about what we don't regularly sure I know that some of the questions may have to do with the at the a regulating of the settlement basins witcher was mentioned the construction stormwater permits they regulate the activity during construction they they regulate all the controls that helps low water and pulling pawn watered for the purpose that that settles sentiment onsite rather than washing out from the site and in that permit there is a requirement that drainage areas of ten acres are required to be controlled through a settlement pond and that the Senate upon is defined as one is capable of of handling and selling water from eight twenty from a twenty four hour Of a ten year twenty four hour storm event or in other words at thirty six hundred cubic feet per acre size settlement pond and we require those possibly built put in place during the construction activity during the land disturbance but we we allow the builders to take those out or leave them in place is really the discretion of the development and the developer and also the community in which those our place so we don't have a long term authority over the the the the facility are the construction which gets and put in place or the ponds which may be left in place we do require the that the control of the storm water during construction but after impose construction that really lies in the hands of the developer as they work with the community which they they lie. Okay so the developer. Spouse bill those ponds. The never retain water because the Dennis charges so bear given during construction I don't see her all the settlement settlement bison works if it doesn't hold water for the. Set him up to the party right now they they do hold water those funds that we regulate under the construction stormwater permit are required to have an out the lost structure this designed to hold water from that designated storm event that I mentioned and designed to hold that water for at least twenty four hours but let it go within seventy two hours. Dr. And so those ponds afterwards I ever subdivision you go in or every commercial development you have these big retention ponds are detention ponds there so after the construction is done in the entire parking lots covered and concrete are for for example there's. One side I know of that's got a million two hundred and sixty thousand square foot building on it. And a hundred acres of Tom curry. So after this bill. And then call great. There's nothing to regulate the storm water runoff for the run off from that is is that what I'm here and not Hey I'm not throwing rocks. or anything I'm just trying to find out. What makes any sense about this. Let me let me say representing those of the. Again as in which lands was saying aye regulation stops when the when the street when the construction is complete in the in the slightest is stable us we will not no longer have any authority a lot of those are kept in there in the original plan for the development in those are approved by the municipality or whoever the the local authorities so what once that once that the construction. Site is stabilized we're in the the promise is terminated. Okay so it's only during construction and after that it is just. Nobody. Nobody cares. I presume the local community if they have ordinances and planning and zoning committees and inspections they would follow up on that it's it's really in their their purview to make sure that the developer followed grading plans and building plans as as they were permitted if if those are applicables but I'll as doctor plans it said that we are authority lies to the extent of construction stabilization and that's when we're terminating the permit. John. So the only paid for it is far as it I mark Sam just asking questions not throwing rocks at all. But because I I just want some answers all on who is. In charge of saying that they use detention ponds I guess after construction is employed. It's just up to the local municipalities so everyone could have a different requirement or different to the regulation or outlook on it it is is that correct sure. Pretty much I mean it's it's gonna panel local warrants under no authority does the E. Q. regulate quantities. John. All right so nobody in state government overseas quantity. There. Run off it sounds like it's just up to the municipality or I'm just trying to understand that I'm gonna Slocan to fix here okay but anyway. Right does anybody else have any questions or does this make sense to anybody else. Okay well another question we had updated so why you're here on the Illinois river. Lawsuit with Oklahoma so far we had on that and once. What was the results of that if you're not yeah just a little background to the committee some I might not be as familiar with the design I think it was ten or twelve years ago Oklahoma I think it's Tulsa Oklahoma sued the poultry integrators in northwest Arkansas. that lawsuit went to federal court and to this day there has been no judgment. Of the state of Arkansas and Oklahoma on the and about. Six right years ago for the joint study of the joint committee to coordinate on the water quality in the in the it'll river that the call was talking about. that the joint study the first one the first joint committee excuse me ruling gave themselves so many years to come up with the plan on how they were going to proceed that really never happened and so a second joint study joint committee was formed between the states. and was signed off by the attorney general's and governors. And that that the committee one hired a In colleges to abolish lin'an just out of the main of university who didn't want to hire from many of them on the other states Arkansas point up six hundred thousand dollars that study. And it came to the conclusion the conclusion about three years ago on a call you can help me with that. and and said that the phosphors limit it's what was all about was nutrients the following sponsors limit should be point all three seven micrograms per liter of milligrams for later and at at a critic flow condition. And add a six month average at the state line. So we have been working with the queues been working with the Oklahoma agencies there's about five Oklahoma agencies that are involved in water quality. And working with them to understand how they're gonna rewrite this water quality standards on foster's. in we work with them for about two years no Oklahoma is just starting to promulgate those standards are in the process now they're pension stakeholder meetings we had one up with the the northwest Arkansas counsel about a month ago. A so there in that state colder. Portion of their rulemaking and they'll go to public hearing with the public notice with their proposed rule after they go to the stakeholders in the legislature and governor in November of this year and then the standard and will take effect in December. No January first of twenty twenty two. So During all that time the sector Keogh and sectarian. Teague of Oklahoma the department G. environment Sunday in the rental agreement that that Bruce hall on within our city signed it is in the center of agriculture for local home. The Senator war now and secretary keoghs serve on the steering committee that was established under that memorandum of agreement. And it's set forth of a time line which I don't think we're gonna my of of five years to come up with a watershed improvement plan. In his several subcommittees of out mark green and monitoring and assessment work group as a communications work group pull in there trying to join all of our data together. And that it has an advisory committee to the steering committee district committee would be just like Senator Q. inspector warm. in that car parts in Oklahoma and so we have an advisory committee of staff that is meant to come up with an outline for this water improvement lotion improvement plan which we've done. And since the communications subcommittee is also come up with a plan on how they're going coordinated communication primarily it looks line through EPA who's been involved with this all. Is the Cherokee Nation. So that's about where we are in the steering committee meets again in November on November the ninth and will try to get some reaction approval from them on how to proceed with the the plans that we have developed a to go for. Thank you A just a comment or two good due to this lawsuit never things going on there there's been hundreds of millions of dollars spent northwest Arkansas no on the waste water treatment plants of spent over three hundred million dollars trying to update them get them up to the the the best quality in the state even the nation that grow up on the wastewater discharge into the river also the poultry industry is the call Lauder flat because there's law chickens raised in northwest Arkansas and they're exporting meant hundreds of thousands of tons per year out of the water share does some goes the stark and saw some goes to Kansas some ghost Oklahoma kind are rounded could complain about and then they take it. The that's such stuff runs downhill or cross state lines sometimes but I thank you all know what remains but anyway thank you for it for the update there we have a few questions here are represents sold and you have a question. Go ahead Sir yes Mr chair dish to would direct yesterday and rules meeting they had a question about a septic tank and their ability to dump inside a Craighead county could I meet with you all after this and you explain the answer to that to me. Take the committee's time now of yes Sir we can that program is administered by the part of agriculture so what I'm a little bit about it but and but not a lot. Okay thank you yes for. Sure. Thank you Mr. That lawsuit is to also alleging that damages from the state is that what. What the religion that was long before my time but yes I believe they were they were they were it was primarily focused on the ten killer. Okay thank you but the again the judge has failed to rule over the last ten years. What looks like the information that we referred here today the man of the the missing the call of. Davis Sir on the the times of constrained by corrosion and stuff and and then the fire that nobody's really watch and. Run off from of all the urbanization and construction and stuff there after construction after construction after you all are out of it Maybe we need to look at that because we've got twice as much foster's going into the river and into Oklahoma from string by corrosion than we do from the municipalities. Is the way it works to make anyone any other questions. Of this let me just say Mr chairman for my Arkansas is kind of unique in the on or basin because we're both in upstream state in a downstream state. Yes that's very very unusual very unusual. Of what goes cross wind up getting back down through the Arkansas River because that's where it goes so defect facts all of this anyway. Thank you gentlemen I appreciate it. Okay Sir any other business needs to come before this fine committee today. If not thank you everybody for your testimony. You got something senator Cooper okay thank you for your attendance in your Main hair and with that we'll be adjourned thank.