Public Health, Welfare and Labor Committee- House & Senate

Go to item we're gonna do the rules first senator item J. Mr pay if you come forward exhibit J.. Good afternoon good afternoon. My apologies Michael Gruppe department of energy and environment. David with the row department of energy environment division of environment quality. Thank you madam. So the rule twenty three is a. A solid waste to rule and we are simply. Nearing the federal requirements for that. Basically to clean up the language. With that I'd take any questions. Are there any questions members of the committee. No questions. Right seeing none this rules reviewed thank you thank you madam chair amity got a cat K. Mr Johnson department of health you've got the next three and floor she wants to come up as well will take care of all of these. This state your name for the record then you're recognized this will be item K.. Thank you senator Chuck Thompson Arkansas department health. thank you members what you have before you on item K. is amendments to the rules regarding. I'm sorry. Regarding cosmetology all these rules changes are pursuant to acts either in twenty seventeen or twenty nineteen twenty seventeen acts are regarding requirements for certain educational requirements FOR domestic abuse when it comes to that's pursuant to a. To act by a represent fight regarding education FOR cosmetologist and recognizing signs of domestic abuse and also allows mobile salons and also has some acts an ACT regarding instructors hours of instruction requirements of those are all those are all pursuant to twenty seventeen ACT twenty nineteen acts are the acts regarding removal of the word regulation pursuant represent Dotson's ACT three fifteen knock official red tape licensing reduction acts that those are those acts regarding temporary licensure and rent percent reciprocal licenses ACT nine ninety which is prohibiting offenses that senator Cooper's act and and ACT eight twenty that's automatic licensure for members of the military you also see in the cosmetology one will be reducing some fees we have reduced fees prior the last amendment and with the with the advent of transformation and also with use of technology without some more efficiency so we are and which you'll see in there we reducing more fees FOR cosmetology passing that along to the licensed cosmetologist I'd be happy to take any questions all right it's. Sir have senator Hester but I'm not sure who that is. Okay a Representative flowers. Thank you madam chair. Can you please shed some light and I'm I'm asking this cut question having received a lot of messages in my inbox and a lot of phone calls. regarding the red tape legislation and the impact that that would have on Barbers and cosmetology licensees. Current as well as those who would be new to receiving those licenses. How can you give shed some light on how this would affect those who have paid their debt to society And have served a sentence or probation parole or what have you and completed their disposition. And would either be trying to renew a license or to gain licensure in these fields thank you for the question Representative now Representative the barber what is under different department that's under department labor licensing so I can't speak for the barber board as it comes to cosmetology ACT nine ninety has prohibiting offenses prepping offenses FOR certain occupations were not that they weren't they did not have background checks and they also did not have prohibiting offenses so nine ninety to change some things for certain occupations and that would include cosmetology so there are a list of prohibiting offenses some are are that you would have to receive a waiver for when it comes to certain occupations there's prohibiting offenses that is a permanent bar for ever that you can never receive a license if you were not license at the time of the that the legislation went into effect which was I believe July twenty fourth of twenty nineteen. So I do understand that there are people than eighty see right now there are trade their trade programs and eighty see where people can learn to be barbers a cosmetologist and I do know also understand that because of ACT nine ninety that there will be they will be barred because of their because of their offenses listed on the you the usual never hold a license offenses what I'll call I also do do know that the occupational licensing the occupational licensing group of a lag which is which was which advises red tape production which were as allies the red tape reduction licensing working group still exist I in fact in the also the Representative to that for eight for Arkansas department health there's a number of stakeholders a number of agencies in there and I do know that that is a point of discussion and lag also known as a point of concern both with constituents and some other legislator wars and and the General Assembly I suspect Oleg would be it will will probably be making some recommendations regarding ACT nine ninety and I would suspect I don't know for sure that there may be some discussions about ACT nine ninety and some tweaks to it during the session but as of right now there are some people that were before could have received certain occupational licensure after paying their debt to society that after nine ninety now by law could not receive that license. And can you tell us what some of those prohibiting offenses might be for total bar. From Making a living of represent of I don't have the list right in front of me but they are they are they are serious offenses we're talking capital murder murder in the first degree murder we're talking about sexual assault we're talking about arson there are these are serious top level the highest felonies in Arkansas now obviously I do know the concern that a you know as a member that I've heard is a member of a lack in the things that have come to me as an attorney that helps advise the cosmetology section of eighty H. is that you would have situations where someone may have done something in there you got let's sale to a bar fight or something like that someone ended up the day ended up in jail I mean ended up in in the penitentiary they're convicted of of a second degree murder they do their time for twenty years they the everybody feels a route rehabilitated at that time and then they tried to go want to go to the barber program the cosmetology program and they could not read as of right now get a license so that is the kind of thing that we are hearing from the departmental standpoint also from a lag in from other stakeholders so again I do understand there may there are discussions of among the letters some legislators to have inquired regarding the issue to us as well to a lack and I'm sure just one final question. Thank you. All and so since you served on on on that body and and and are. Helping to flesh out what these rex would look like for approval before the committee today. Can you explain how it is and I'm and I'll say that I remember voting for it about I remember voting for something where they would be waivers. And applicable barring so for example if there is someone who has. committed rate for example and and molestation against children it makes sense for them not to work in schools and daycares someone and if you can explain. How prohibiting someone who may have committed murder but serve to twenty years or whatever. Completed their fines parole they get out they have the skill to pursue a career so that they can you know re bond with society like how is keeping that person from doing hair or nails. Some had like where is the protection where is that leak and also how does how were we. Implementing something like this and not. Exercising cruel and unusual punishment if we say the person completed their sentence paid their debt are we really serving an additional punishment and keeping them from being able to make a living for something that they're trying to do thank you so thank you that I mean I would just answer I mean that it that is the legislative debate that probably needs to happen within the well I'm not sure about the legal ramifications madam chair and in term time I understand that I mean I understand that I'm just trying to keep the question related to the rule that's in front of us and so I'm just asking about the constitutionality of that rule. Concerned about how promoting something like that might put the state in jeopardy for lawsuits A thank you for the question represent of I think that's a that's a question also that's part of that ongoing debate both to to us in Irvin's point when it comes to legislature during the during session as well as a lack is continuing to meet and and and discuss those issues and I think AT see also needs to to be you know to to be there because they they are the ones that that deal with the card incarcerated individuals and rehabilitation I think that they need to be able to be at the table and speak so I think that's a a broad discussion that needs to happen from from a number of of stakeholder groups and I think that you will likely hear more of that as we get closer to the session within the session itself thank you Representative love. Thank you thank you mentioned I think my questions or along the line of Representative flowers because I did receive a lot of of any of the concerns that I guess this is my question because I know it is a legislative debates I don't want to debate that here in implementing this and so you you said that you serve as the as the liaison to only is that what you call it up yes Sir yes are present love the for the department of health Representative for them okay in the this is the on going on the date that you all are having in regards to how this is hi this is impact in certain individuals there's a there there are number of folks on there there's members from that there's represents from the Arkansas department of labor licensing Arkansas department corrections Arkansas department health so legislator wars Arkansas state police their number of of folks on that occupational licensing advisory group and so yes that is the that is a bit been an ongoing pointed discussion in fact we had at a meeting a subcommittee meeting last week and that was a a point of discussion there's been also been out survey they went out to their state agencies regarding all the occupational licensing rules I mean occupational licensing act twenty nineteen to try to get that kind of a baseline of where where folks are at with implementation of those various those various this various rule so that is a amend various acts I'm sorry Representative so that is an ongoing ongoing discussion with multiple stakeholders in there we were still meeting on that and again I think we'll hear more of we'll have more meetings going toward into the fall and I think we hear more about those issues is is what session gears up okay so my question I guess is. Is there any potential legislation and is comin out in this group that what you said it eight and I think the Senate will possibly tweak this. The there's not been any of the group is not the is not talk about a particular legislation that we have heard we there's been people to discuss this and talked about let's talk about whether legislation is needed we've heard it from other from people outside the group that the that there may be legislation represent though I would just invite you to go to that meeting if you would like that just trying to keep the questions to the rules themselves and I appreciate the conversation I would just direct you to that to attend those meetings and have those conversations with them are there any other questions on this rule. Thank you I'm all right without objection this rule stands reviewed exhibit L.. You're recognized present Senate bill thank you senator before you you have the amendment to the rules for massage therapy in Arkansas for exhibit L. those are all regarding acts of twenty nineteen that will be this red tape reduction licensure acts we just talked about when it came to cosmetology as well as acts three fifty removing the word regulation per Representative Dotson so requested that ACT three fifteen I'll be happy to take any questions are there any questions on this role. Right seeing none thank you that we will review this rule. And number in. And in the next one is the amendments to the rules for. Radiation technology licensure in Arkansas again nothing substantive these are all pertaining to acts twenty nineteen in twenty nineteen for red tape production ACT four twenty six a twenty nine ninety in ten eleven be happy to take any questions are there any questions regarding these rules. Right seeing none thank you that for your real stands refused thank you thank you. And number in. Ellen letter in this is the rule regarding lead based paint thank you madam chair marshy general counsel for the department health and this will help us comply with act eight twenty dealing with military licensure act two three fifteen and FOR twenty six and ten eleven dealing with reciprocal licensure happy to take any questions other any questions on this rules. Right seeing none. That rule stand reviewed thank you all very much okay members moving back to the top of our agenda our invite sure Reese children's that she will come up. Thank you feel just a dental fire sells for the record you may proceed. Good afternoon members of the committee thank you for the opportunity to be here before you today I'd like to also as Jake believed from D. F. and A to join me and have run Hicks from the division of art for services also here joining me. All rights. You may proceed. Yes some brand Hicks assistant director for finance for workforce services. Jake plea DFA office a budget thank you. Today we were asked to be here to discuss the lost wages assistance program and the requirement for the state match so the lost wages assessment assistance program was announced approximately two weeks ago that the state had received approval to participate in this in this program in the last couple of weeks then we were proceeded to to make adjustments to our system so that we could Hey out these benefits to those that are eligible in doing so we have also been working on the the the numbers that are required for us to be able to determine what our state match will be what's required of our state and how we're going to meet that requirement that required us to go back and look at the numbers for the weeks of ending August the first August the eight in August the fifteenth so the state has received the has funds at the treasury to pull down for those weeks as you heard the governor state yesterday and also secretary Preston we're committed to two paying out the first week of benefits as we know we have the state required match for that one week and we're working even is as as early as ours latest today with the entities of FEMA Adam here in Arkansas and then soon we will have another meeting with the US department of labor to ensure that we have a good understanding of what's allowable for our state match of I asked Jake bleed to attend this meeting with us because he has been involved with us in getting the the. Appropriation that we need to make sure that we have the funds and to work with us and our budget analyst to ensure that we have the we're we're calculating using the right numbers because this is a very complicated process that involves numerous different calculations as we have a group that's under one hundred we have a great that's hundred and above we have state funds that fund the regular you I benefits with federal funds that fun all the other benefits so it's a very complex of formula and we want to make sure that we're doing it correctly and not obligate the state to to to providing the match when we art we are sure that we have that pay out in our regular unemployment benefits so I will open it up for questions but before that I'll give if I may give check believed in opportunity and Brian X. an opportunity just as to correct anything that I said that may have been wrong or to add to what I stated before thank you madam chair. Mr hex there to do the good some nation of the program and where we stand and and yes we've been working very closely with the affinity off the budget to make sure we have all the preparations we have and the need to place for not only the benefits but also for the administration so and then also making sure that as the goddess continues to evolve factor expecting some new guidance yet today to make sure that we understand that guidance and stay in compliance with that counts as we move for with the program. So today you're requesting an additional eight million dollars from the cares fund for this is that correct. Yes the department of workforce services is submitted a request for a million dollars and I would anticipate that if that request is approved by the steering committee will be presenting a corresponding request for carriage act appropriation to ale see subsequent to that decision. So that is to pay out the three hundred dollars weekly. That is based on the estimates that we have for the shortfall of the state match so in again back to the calculations that are required we have to look at the funds that are being spent out of state funds which the only state funds we are expending at the current act of currently FOR unemployment benefits are those being paid out of the unemployment trust fund. Then the state match has to be provided on all of those benefits so we are asking that cares ACT steering committee to consider this is a a potential need for the state match required under L. WA and right now our latest estimates were closed eight million dollars of a shortfall from the not for us not being able to meet the state match based on our expenditures from the state unemployment trust fund. Okay if if the money is not from the cares act where would it come from. That's what we're waiting on further guidance today we were told this morning that there is another at thank you that's coming out that will provide us more direction on funds that we can use but at this time it would have to be from any state funds as as some of you may I know that depart division of work for services it has very little state funds in our budget two. Well we have no state funds in our budget that are allowed to be used for this our only state funds are match funds for tennis and our new hire registry so those are funds that are not allowed to be used for the match so that's why we have the request of the cares that committee in case cares act funds are allowed to be used for the state match. Okay. But we we don't know definitively if we can use the money that way or not that's correct and that's why I was hesitant to present to agree to be at the committee meeting today because I knew that we would our at our application at the time I believe that Mister price asked had not been approved but then it was approved but we are still working through all the details so I wish I knew more because that would make our job a little bit easier but right at this time we don't have any definitive answer on whether the cares act funds can be used even though we've been told that they can in a conversation we've not seen anything in writing everything in writing is is the opposite of that so we're waiting on that we're waiting on more guidance to determine if they can be used and how they can be used okay but the funds will be paid out of the unemployment trust fund and the federal funds that were receiving for all of the unemployment programs that are currently in place including P. U. I. okay Representative Ladyman. Thank you madam chair. I don't know but everybody else appear but you've totally confuse me I'm right up here ma'am. Of. I mean I'm totally confused what you presented. So you get eight hundred million is that right from FEMA. Well. That the eight hundred million is the appropriation I thank which is the amount that we transferred to the disaster assistance line so that we could make these payments of. So one of the kind of complicating things in brine. Jump in here if I said is wrong. When we look at this three weeks ago we were able to project out and it it seems like we would be able to make this sufficient matching payments from our existing unemployment insurance. The challenges that we can claim as match the payments we make on that traditional unemployment insurance that those payments have to cover the hundred dollar match for all these other federal programs that are a hundred percent federal. Well as folks have they can be on unemployment insurance for sixteen weeks right. Well that's about how long the. Recession that has resulted from the current of viruses lasted so folks are beginning to roll off of unemployment insurance and when they do that they roll onto any federal program they really can get onto so we're losing the amount we're paying in match what our obligations are going up on the other side that's what's causing us to take a step back and ask okay we start making payments on this how much are we going to be on the hook for next month two months down the road three months down the road as we project out how long this thing's going to last I I I I know it's complicated we've been wrestling with it for weeks and unfortunately we're still not done. So the eight million that you're requesting your requesting a million from the cares. Group in that covers one week is that what I heard you say. No Sir we know that we have a step enough state match to make the payments for week one how much is that. If you know you have it you know you got a quantity there right. We at we are estimates are that we're about it a break even point on the state match for the benefits paid out four week one assuming that a hundred percent of the individual self certifies cove it having a co the destruction. What was the number. Other than total number of pay outs for we what is that number for one week coverage you say you have it. So you must know what it is. Yes Sir based on the estimates that we're looking at the jet shot twenty nine million dollars for the third third three hundred dollars and then the match for that would need to be about seven million. Okay for the first week. But what you're saying and I understand this is dynamic and is changing daily and all that so you're saying that it's not gonna be that same number every week. You know that but but that gives us an idea of how much money you're talking here and so you have the money to cover that twenty nine million. Yes you have the money to cover that one week based on early as much as when when does that one week pay out what date. The. Will be paying out the P. U. I. payments and regular unemployment and extended benefit P. you see at the same time to those eligible recipients and we anticipate that that first payment will be out as early as tomorrow. Thank you thank you Mr. The seven million the estimate is required for that match is that the seven million you don't have. Or you do have that and so is this eight million dollar quest going for week two or yes ma'am okay. So what are the what are the numbers for week two. The estimates of our twenty six million for week two for the three at all payment but the available matches only five point seven and that's what Mr believe referring to is the amount that we the river benefits just drop in is fashion what was into supposed weeks ago so and. Of people are not following new benefits as. We were estimating weeks ago that they would be which is a good thing in the economy that the unemployment is in better shape in on Palmer is down so trying to estimate even a month ahead of from now of how many people will be exhausting the claim coming people of the filing new claims has been a hard number two to to judge as opposed to in prior years okay so forgive me but I'm trying to figure out where this eight fits so I have a seven and I have a five point seven where does the eight fits so the eight million is the total estimated shortfall for the first six weeks of payments. Okay a. So to to your I went there I'll I'm in misunderstood your question I was giving you the numbers that we have available FOR match in terms of how much is estimated to be short in the match each week estimations are that we would be short about seven hundred Jett almost eight hundred thousand week to and then going up from there from about one point one to about one point seven million a week short in the match. Okay so so you. Okay okay so you you don't necessarily have all the money to cover week one because there is a shortfall within the match. I mean that's why I really not likely. Okay I'm gonna just deferred to somebody else Senator hammer. Thank you Mr chair the twenty nine million is what's coming down from the feds to make up the three hundred dollar. Art is that correct yes Sir okay and the eight million is at a cumulative total for how far out you think it's going to be however many weeks that it stands is that is that for up a running balance at around seven eight hundred thousand week to go with that or you land okay so the eight million isn't a accumulative total broken out around seven hundred thousand we. Give or take for total six weeks six weeks for six weeks okay and so were were live in on the hopes that we're going to get permission from the feds to be able to use eight million of the cares ACT money to make up that six week shortfall we're going to have otherwise if we don't get it we they're not going to give them the hundred dollars to go with the three hundred over half come up with that from some other source other than the cares act monies that come the long and short of it yes Sir if the decision is made to go ahead and pay the three hundred dollars we have to have some which makes me of the match that's part of the reason why the governor approved deal than this week ones because we of this more certainty of the having the match for that as opposed to the subsequent weeks right so so we got week one in the books it's after week one is what we got to kind of wait and see how it plays out are you get any indication from the feds as far as one that permission will come down and I know we're talking verbal versus up in writing you can hold up to the auditor later when they come back two years and do all that stuff but no this morning we were on the the conversation they were under Senate would come out today but it may be late today or maybe tomorrow okay so by Friday when we have it well now when we have a LC next week we should we should have some clarity as to what our directions going to be right now we're just kind of get a snapshot of what's coming yes Sir that it okay manager I'd like to ask some questions about unemployment itself and I'd like to know what ballots in the unemployment fund is right now when the chair would allow okay will we will come back to that and I'm gonna go to senator Hickey. Yes center in regards to this this is somewhat confusing but when I made this goes to Mr bleed if if it does pass the cares committee today and you bring it before I also the to get the increase in the appropriation. To when you write that specific in the so that we can easily understand that it'll be limited to just that because that is something that I would like to see whenever that comes through because it is kind of confusing. You know I can speak for the body but I just I want to make sure that is near down so this doesn't come through that that appropriation goes away yes Sir and if we get guidance from the feds that says you know what you can't use that money in the way you'd like them we can follow up with the LCD to let y'all know where where that ended up but we can tailor the appropriation if you'd like we can sure the language with you in advance to make sure that we're on the same page I would appreciate it thank you Sir. Thank you Representative Payton. Thank you madam chair I'm over here to your left. So when all talk about short fallers come ashore falling cash flow or appropriation or is the fund balance broke can you be a little more specific about what you mean by shortfall. A yes Sir the the trust fund itself has over six hundred million in it so the that's not the issue the issue is the amount of unemployment benefits that we're paying on a weekly basis is dropping faster than we anticipated that the that is what we were using to provide the match for the three hundred dollar payments. Did that if I could erupt G. so you're saying the amount you're paying out. Is falling yes that normally wouldn't create a shortfall so explain to me how that creates a shortfall because we were the idea is to use the payments coming out of the trust fund to provide the twenty five percent match for the three hundred dollars which is not what we normally would have a hole in so trying to make sure that the of payments out of the trust fund are enough to qualify for the the match for the twenty plus million dollars that would be coming out for the three hundred dollars that's the with the matches that's new is matching the three hundred dollar program A bill would that's not something that were for services had in the past to worry about at the knee issue with is providing match for unemployment benefits but this is a female lost wages system program and so that in that does require match and so of the following a benefit payments which on one hand is a really good thing in terms of the calling that also means the in that it could fall below the threshold required for the match for the twenty plus million dollars a week of three and all payments. Can I the I'm sorry jumping can I take a crack when is due. So the way that this system was set up the states were to provide a hundred dollars for every three hundred dollars the state could do that in one of two ways one they can provide a hundred dollars and for us that would be a very expensive proposition at a time when our budgets already pretty constrained the other option is that we could show that we had released one hundred dollars in our existing unemployment insurance program for every three hundred dollars that we got through FEMA so what we would do is go back and look at the payments we made from the state side through unemployment insurance and FOR every three hundred dollars that went out the door from FEMA we had to show that we had already paid one hundred dollars. The challenges that the amount we're paying through the traditional unemployment insurance system is dropping its dropping because people are rolling off of the benefits it's dropping because the economy is coming back and people are going back to work at the same time the number of federal programs that qualify for that three hundred dollars is much larger than just traditional unemployment it's the P. way which is fully federal we don't get any credit for money that folks received to that it's there's three or four. There are a couple extended benefits as well as so the the phonograms also reimbursing the imp reimbursement place for half of their pay outs and that sort of thing so the shortfall we're talking about is the shortfall in in as those state payments drop we're losing the ability to match. To claim a match against those three hundred dollars. I'm beginning to see that so if the claims being paid out has been falling that would indicate hopefully that we have The income rising on on the if there's more people employed in the the amounts being paid in is going up are we seeing that or they just dropping off without getting a job. So the only thing that we can confirm is that the number of individuals on unemployment for regular unemployment is decreasing. Of the number of individuals on pandemic on employment assistance of that are receiving payments every week that number is has has stayed stable for the last of for the last two weeks it has also decrease but just just a very small amount so what we can tell you is that individuals that are coming off of regular unemployment for sixteen weeks are now eligible for federal fund federally funded programs that include pandemic emergency employment compensation and extended benefits and so those are that's an additional let's see sixteen weeks plus an additional thirteen weeks plus an additional eight weeks so these individuals in total are. Are declining which is a good indicator you do tractor income down to. Yes they're gonna uppers it flat Downer on where's it going unless there for weeks. The amendment yes the the collections of our on a quarterly basis and so when the employee report for the September quarter they will have a better handle on that number. To see if they were just dropping out just or are they going into jobs more specifically okay so you will not have those numbers to the end of the quarter yes Sir thank you thank you madam chair thank you Representative rye. Thank you madam chair. Dutch race correct me if I'm wrong I'm just trying to get a ball park on this thing. If it's four hundred and sixty four. Million dollars. We don't have that on hand at all the way that you're just down with a portion. Is that not what it would be over a sixteen week period. Round four sixty four all I that a million for the federal part. I don't have those calculations in front of me for the total amount of benefits for sixteen weeks of claimants yes ma'am but it was. We we figure twenty nine million await. That that that the federal was going to look into taking care of I thank okay are you referring to the total amount of of benefits paid out in the lost wages assistance program no ma'am up estimate Dutch three time looking at something like what we can depend on having to work with I mean like is it not twenty nine million dollars awake that it would cost to re to take care of our unemployment over a period of sixteen wage. Can we say that it was something like of twenty nine million away. Yes yes Sir okay three and a payments that would be about right okay when I the forum for on on that if you look at that that's around four hundred sixty four million dollars if that's what it was over sixteen we paired well what are part based on a hundred dollars in their part based on three hundred dollars with our part not be around a hundred fifty four million dollars yes Sir a little less than that but yes Sir okay now once you get to that figure and that's a hundred fifty four million can you kindly explain the break out of how we would be pay in it yes Sir so that is so the regular benefits that we're paying out too so ex employees of of in Arkansas employers that are receiving the regular unemployment benefits that is exactly for that hundred fifty million dollars would come from is payments to the claimants that are receiving the regular benefits of you know the first sixteen weeks of regular employment if they're employed by an employer Ole in the those that's the primary role of source of that match would be those payments and right now our estimates are that in sixteen weeks will not be at a hundred fifty million dollars of pay out. And that's the shortfall. Okay and that follow the plate. Quickly yes ma'am I will so actually the the shortfall for just one week is how much. the shortfall of for week two is estimated to be just under a hundred thousand and then each week of the shortfall would increase from there. Okay for say a hundred eight hundred thousand and you multiply that time sixteen weeks for you that there. You you're talkin. Okay yes. That's what I'm trying to get to take a calculated from the counters here. So but yes you you're you're catching on that it would be significant that's why right now we're only looking at the first three weeks maybe six weeks so if you look at the overall picture be around fifteen million dollars it's about twelve point four how much about twelve point four but again let's get back to the question I think what you're trying to ask is the shortfall and where does it come from beyond the eight million is that what you're asking so that if we do eight million in Kerr's money there's eight million but then there's more prop have potentially yes ma'am so we're with that money come from madam chairman I think the answer to question force real good it's coming from the employer okay yes ma'am thank you then this yes and I'm I'm yeah of if I may clarify something currently the famous estimating that states will will that FEMA has approximately six and a half weeks of benefits to pay out to for the L. W. a program under the current executive order right thank you Senator hammer. Thank you ma'am chair if we don't do our part of the match. Do we or do we not get three hundred dollars. We do not. So really it's a mute point we are come up with money if we want to be able to get the citizens that needed three hundred dollars we just have to figure out which pot is going to come out of correct yes Sir okay and what did you say as far as if it doesn't come out of the cares ACT money what were the proposed ideas of where we come from that's for waiting federal guidance to help us with that answer. Okay and you expect that to come in the next few days yes Sir okay very good thank you they make a select ask those questions at the okay I'm just I'm back in the queue and the last question Senator Clark. Thank you madam chair of direct from west you the same question I asked you back I think in June but it may have been may. do you know of with Tom one a shortfall in the unemployment fund was ever made up any other way than increasing the amount that employers by. Senator Clark not to my knowledge but will asked that the that brown Hicks respond to that question is he's been with the agency for many years thank you. She says many years Friday will be one thirty seventh anniversary with the state cycle that many years. My grandkids only But to answer your question so if I understand correctly during the Great Recession of that though the trust fund did go insolvent and we did have to receive additional three or sixty two million from the federal government to make up that shortfall and yes the employees of Arkansas did a pay for that in its back in its entirety through through taxation. Thank you I've got ten years more than you with Clark's building decorating center and that is my memory of the history also thank you. Thank you I'm going to go back now the Senator hammer I think had some questions about the unemployment trust fund you're recognized thank you Mr chair we too can you tell me on the numbers of those that you're still waiting to process on the P. U. age. Senator hammer as of Tuesday evening we had received two hundred and ten thousand six hundred thirty two applications for pandemic unemployment assistance out of those applications into your question we have forty six thousand nine hundred and sixty five that are pending review. Our have incomplete applications meaning that they started their application but they did not complete their application. And approximately forty nine hundred that need additional information. Are those numbers going up or going down because it seems like we're at it seems like every time somebody comes in we ask these questions were holding around the same number consistently some I'm trying to get a idea the barometer is it going up or going down or water why are we still at such a high number. Add Senator hammer what we are discovering is that the number of applications that we are receiving that need further review because of potential items that have that where we flag those items for additional review those applications are increasing and that is actually offsetting the progress that we're making or the numbers in the progress that we're making in those in those applications that have been reviewed and have either been for a parade approved or denied so unfortunately because of applications that are coming in that we suspect are. Possibly fraud or are not eligible and require additional review that is offsetting the numbers that we're saying in our progress so you're correct in saying the numbers seem to be about the same. George saying is the fraudulent claims are sucking up all the time where you can't process the other ones. Well we we haven't flagged them all of those is fraudulent because they require additional review so we have to ask for additional information we look at at the information that was submitted we compare that to the the database that we have with the state of federal unemployment insurance integrity hub and other sources to determine which ones appear to be fraudulent and then we're holding those until we receive more information and then at the same time working on those that we have more information and we can do additional verification by calling those individuals by contacting them by doing the in person events that we conducted so that we can get that those that are eligible completed and get their payments to them as quickly as possible. Hi the thank you manager all right thank you thank you of their number more questions thank you so much I'm right now I'm gonna go and. I'm in a quickly go to doctor Romero for a quick update on that Kevin nineteen vaccine distribution I know he's on the hall and he came over from the press conference I want to get him in here and then back out to the department of health we are ending this meeting at three thirty so I'm going to allow for about. Fifteen to twenty minutes on this item before we go to I am F. and then G. and H. so if you can just give us a brief update on and the vaccine distribution and and what we have learned from there and at that would be great and just a quick update thank you just state your name for the record in the may proceed thank you. Thank you who's ever Meryl secretary of health physician and I'm joined by a doctor delay our chief deputy me all just so I will quickly give you an update I prepared some quick comments about where we are with vaccines in this country and will take too long to go through this so it current time we have three vaccines in the vaccine pipeline a to have entered into the phase three trials one it was about to begin in just B. and some phase three trials here is currently on hold and I can give you more detail on each of these vaccines and just give you generalities at this point it we we have received the notification from H. H. S. and from CDC to begin preparing for vaccine delivery later this year and we are beginning Michael planning for that doctor delay will discuss that in more detail at this time uh we do not have any vaccine available with regard to covert vaccine we are focusing a lot of our efforts on the issues of influenza vaccine and vaccine for children which again I will turn over to doctor delay to speak and is the information we currently have regarding the two leading vaccines with regard to safety is that they appear to be safe and efficacious within the the guidelines established at by the by the FDA so I'll in my comments now and the if you wish to speed more detailed comments an alternate over to doctor delay okay doctor still Hey you're recognized thank you very much senator Irvin a in addition to being state epidemiologist I'm also the medical director of the immunization program at the Arkansas department of health this program works closely with the CDC and we have ongoing immunization for. Vaccine for children's program as well as other vaccines including influence of vaccine that we provide in counties around the states and schools. We've been working closely with the CDC and developing a plan to deploy a Covin vaccine if and when it becomes available in Arkansas we've spree seed supplemental funding of one point five million dollars to do that we have not yet received the formal guidance for the plan that we are developed from the CDC initially we were told that it would be due October one now we were waiting for the guidance still so we do thirty days after the guidance is received the initial plan was to have a be ready to deploy vaccine in Arkansas by November one at the earliest Of the initial what month in Arkansas we think will be designated for certain groups so we're looking at the potential guidance from the national academies of medicine and the advisory committee for immunization practices and we have a small committee here in Arkansas looking at that so that we would be ready to implement their guidance for what groups would receive the initial lot months because the amount of vaccine is likely to be small and for example it may initially be cured or allotted for healthcare providers and for example. I'm we have an internal planning group at the health department to work on the logistics and all of the details that go with such an endeavor of deploying the vaccine we're basing it on the type of things that we have done in the past for a mass influenza vaccination clinics and this group has been meeting for three weeks now and we're taking care of certain tasks that we need to check or verify or take steps on and we have plants now FOR engaging external partners and we're looking to establish the first meeting this next week and then we're also working with our communications office of health communications and external partners to plan for messaging about covert nineteen vaccine with if and when it becomes available so I'll stop there and take any questions you may have. Okay what members I wanted to read at this was from miss racial Davis with the Arkansas health care association just to give you an update on this CMS issued a federal interim final rule last week that mandates testing of all nursing home employees the frequency is based on every county and its positivity rate currently fifty three percent of Arkansas counties mandate for twice weekly testing of all staff the rest are once a week at the present time if there are any cases presents patients will also be tested and the logistics of this are very difficult and they are working hard with the department of health lab and private labs to get this up and going It is federally mandated three CMS so just if you are getting questions from anybody who is employed by nursing home you can direct them to the Arkansas health care association but they are working under a federal mandate issued by a CMS and so as you can imagine that's fairly costly as well so that's concerning to me particularly that cost because there's nothing offsetting that cost is that correct. Understanding is that we are using the PCR test at this time there is not a cost if we use the A antigen testing that has been machines have been partially provided to nursing homes around the states they get an initial allotment of test kits and then after that the nursing homes will be required to pay for additional casts. Okay. All right represent Lehman. Thank you manager I don't know which one bill can answer this but you know I I'm I heard what everybody else is heard that there's been a whole put on the the bank scene because one person in the control group was ill is that just one vaccine and I as I think there's nine different companies working on this can you it's not a hold on all of them as an no so it to to clarify that there are over two hundred and three companies working on vaccines worldwide we currently have three vaccine manufacturers in this country that are in one of the later stages of of testing there are those three companies are mature now which is in the lead followed by well it mature enough followed by Fizer beyond tech and then AstraZeneca which is the company you're referring to and that hold was placed on yesterday because on the company yesterday because they had one individual with a condition called transverse myelitis and they were going to investigate whether this could be related to vaccines the hold that was placed on the vaccine is typical it is not unusual for companies that are testing vaccines to place is a pause in enrollment. During the studies when they find an adverse event such as this in this one person that was in there test route their control group I believe it's it well it is at let me just make sure so there's a control group Sir and there's a test group that the control group does not receive the vaccine itself I believe this was in the test group the group that would be that by the recipients of the vaccine but but other than not knowing that it's a transverse myelitis in one individual I would assume it's in the test group because otherwise they would not have stopped. Thank you ma'am travel question at the in okay so according to the letter it McKesson is been hired to sat correct to distribute the vaccine how's that working with the manufacturer of the vaccine and then how does McKesson distribute that and then what exactly are they requiring of us as a state in order to secure our for distribution facilities and what's not going to look like around the state sure so right now it is it there is an agreement with McKesson but that may change it originally was with the DOD so let it it's change recently okay because it is known as a well known player in this field of vaccine occasions we we they the doctor delay cannot further point to this if necessary they are they are the providers for our vaccines for children they have a warehouse in Tennessee they're familiar with this type of work okay so how is affecting and get to us if it gets to us we don't know yet because we do not have enough information yet released from the maxi manufacture or from the cast in or the CDC as to how this vaccine is going to be distributed we are of the thought that at this time McKesson will reach out to us the the health department to distribute it but they very well could reach out to large pharmaceutical pharmacies to have it distributed in the state so that is very much a question mark at this time. Okay. Delighted you have anything to add to that well I just wanted to add that were familiar with McKesson they handle our vaccine and when we place orders we at it shipped from the McKesson warehouses and then it goes directly to the local health unit or timber the providers and and so they're very much a custom to add shipping and handling vaccine orders that's what they do okay yes Sir merit servant so let me make it clear that the if if this turns out to be one of the two top vaccines and if it turns out to be the one that has ultra low freezing to pass the stability requirements I think I talked a little bit about this and FOR your committee before this will not go direct to disk to to private clinicians this will probably go to an institution like a rose our own or another institution that has a capacity to store this and then move it out because this does not hold well at room temperature routine freezers even the secondary vaccine the other vaccine has a requirement of minus twenty degrees so that's why. The large labs perhaps on university campuses or things like that they may have you a mass or have the have the ability to store that it that may be it again you know there are requirements for how you store this vaccine it cannot be stored with with other investment so it it but but the the I can guarantee you that the health department is all is preparing to do this if we need to do it okay very good thank you Representative Ladyman. Thank you madam chair this is changing the subject apologize this but A tomorrow is national suicide prevention awareness day. And I was just on a call within see a sale some other people from other states we were talking about opioids in the virus and how that affected that one of the states up in the northeast said that there suicide rate first off let me say since tomorrow is the side prevention day I think we all need to pause and think about that and think about what we can do to you know to get that number down but on this call and I was just on one the states in the northeast so that their suicide race rate had went up forty eight percent since the virus start. A new you know or can you get us figures on what are suicide rate was before the corona virus the covert nineteen buyers and what it is after so I don't have those figures with me at the moment but we certainly can provided to you we know that the that the stress of cove at the the fact that persons are staying at home has a lip led to a number of problems a suicide is one of the domestic abuse is another child abuse is unity another and we are seeing increased cases in the latter two so this is a very stressful issue for for the public and for the everyone and if if you know unfortunately you know suicide is associated with with mental health issues and if you can't get to your physician or you don't have access to the that's certainly exacerbates is good to get those figures we can send them to us so that we know how we're doing compared to other states are we doing okay are we doing better we we can certainly do that Sir thank you thank you thank you senator hammer for last question thank you Mr chair on the issue of the vaccine and I think if I may write Dr Mary you hold a pretty procedures position on a national committee that deals with with how things are distributed my correct on that I'm not so much how things are distributed Sir but we we make like committee the committee of makes recommendations to the CDC about prioritization or allocation of the vaccine okay and so to that point you made a comment about this going to the large pharmacies what's what's the advantage or what's the rationale behind going to large pharmacies as opposed to also the independent ones because were role state sure you know we just had a CVS and been shut down a year ago and you know so we're we're positioning what would appear to be a monopoly of the big box stores over the independents and also disadvantaging role Arkansas which were known to be a state up so I wonder what the rationale behind that is. And and how's it defended sure so rest assured that if you go back and you listen to the the public sessions A you will hear my voice bring up the issue of rural states I I am the only person on that committee that brings that up primarily because I come from a rural state so the reason why it's going to these larger facilities is the same reason that I discussed earlier that is the ultra low storage that is these are freezers that require the the specimen to be kept at seven minus seventy degrees of they're not found everywhere there founded laboratories I have one in my laboratory and so they're not routinely found it so the bigger pharmaceutical sorry your pharmacies may have that capacity and may have that that issue so that I think that's part of it but the issue of getting this vaccine from. A central repository to the world community is a concern of mine and has been brought up on a number of occasions both within the private discussions of the work group which I which I am a member of and the larger group which is the ACIP so yes I recognize that and I've been I think I've been voice full of transmitting this into the into the general public appearances I appreciate that one last question Senator hammer and cutting off in two minutes okay more shift gears you know that madam chair right yes your honor to ask about quarantine guidelines yes ma'am quick like you quarantine guidelines involving school students were in a meeting yesterday with one of our schools that has a significant number students that are quarantine and those are quarantine were on the list as I've been identified in somebody that tested positive but they themselves have not tested positive I remember store that share two three weeks you'll committee about the hairdresser up Missouri what a great job the mass did because she was positive but none of our clients received you know the test what could we if that's gonna be the poster child experience why could we not allow students who've been close proximity that are committed to wearing a mask and enforced by schools be able to function in school as long as they're wearing the mask in that situation so I let me offer initial comments and then all the doctor doing Hey. Refine the point of necessary so the the mask is not one hundred percent so my wearing the mask does not guarantee that those persons around the are not going to get it and as you know the persons that are exposed the mask has no no protection for them that the transmission rate of this virus is two point eight two point five persons per individual infected so the only way to to to flatten the curve or to lower that that coefficient that are not coefficient is to make sure that anybody that is exposed is quarantined so that if he or she develops disease they will not have a chance to spread it out work doctor don't have. I don't really have much to add to that but Quarantine is one of our best chances that breaking the chain of transmission and I think that's going to be very important school because a of the difficulties that children have maintaining six foot difference at distance in those environments. Well let me tell you the message it was received and it involves the some players. After it was passed down Friday and they were following the guidelines the players and some of the students are like what what's the sense wearing masks and which puts the administration a very difficult position because I lost the ability for being able to enforce because they were told if they were able to where the mass that it be you know it be okay and there's a mixed messaging and we're working to educating understand education but there's a real mix messaging that occurred this gonna make a little bit more difficult and I wish you consider that that request I just made that if they are on the quarantine list but they themselves have tested negative that they would at least be able to return to their schedule duties because that's what they want to do thank you thank you manager thank you I'm just going to ask if you would get with him after the meeting I think that is a big concern for a lot of us as legislators and perhaps we need to because there's Nicks Mr Mrs six messages you know coming but also from the national media and all the different sources so thank you and without no more questions thank you very much for being here Preciado that I wish that we are going to have element Hey Chris the line's markes if they'll come up analyst the Smith if you all try to find a Mike we're gonna try to get this as the singly as possible because we know we have a a committee meeting at three thirty with the care steering task force so I want to get to this as quickly as we can. Hi if you will to state your name for the record and then we may proceed. Numbers you have in your pockets this right here is the handout. Okay a C. executive director with the Arkansas municipal league. Elizabeth met I'm a secretary for the department of inspector general and also served as the chairman for the cares ACT steering committee thank you for being here. Crystallized director for the association of Arkansas counties. Allen invade chief of staff department finance minister alright you may proceed. Thank you madam chair and. Some months ago the municipal league in the Arkansas association of counties approach the the care steering committee and requested based on on the the anticipated need of the cities of Arkansas on the counties of Arkansas requested that the steering committee put aside set aside a hundred and fifty million dollars of Kerr's act funding the coronavirus really funding for the needs of the cities and counties the steering committee accepted that request and made that recommendation and and that money was set aside since that period of time the committee has met on a number of occasions we continue to work with the municipally we continue to work with the Arkansas association of counties of the steering committee developed a subcommittee of members that met up recently to look over to review the business processes that DFA has continued to work on to present the cities and counties to the municipally again and the Arkansas so should counties have worked out of the methodology for allocation for distribution of those funds and and they certainly can share that that methodology but we've we've continued to work forward and and in addition to that we have also brought in the the contractor city H. who has helped us develop the forms in the business processes and the online portal that become available to assist the cities and counties as they make their request is there to be entered documentation so that we have full transparency and the money that's being utilized how it's being utilized and for an audit and compliance review. Right and they'll be presenting that to the full steering committee later today correct go ahead. Thank you Mr McVeigh and we appreciate the work D. F. and A has done on this and it's Been an evolution as we move forward to this point as many of you know the cares acts during committees dealing with faqs that come out it seems like every other day and so we've been looking at a moving target as we go along so in front of you what you have or series of three letters that were submitted to all of him over D. F. and I that outlined and now have honed in on a process that we are proposing today to the cares acts during committee two years for distribution of up to a hundred and fifty million dollars of cares ACT money in addition to those three letters you're gonna see an allocation model one for the city's one for the county's behind that let me put it simply the the letters basically create if you will a phased approach to allocating money and then giving cities and towns and counties the opportunity to apply for money out of that hundred and fifty million nobody is getting money just cart log they have to go and show through an application process Mister McVeigh's right and and here's what we've got right now about fifty pages of application process that D. F. and A is working on with the C. T. E. H. there will be a process to go through and in the cities and towns or the counties can get up to the amount that you see on the spread sheets that are attached to the three letters they're gonna be two phases as mark will tell you in a minute it's two bites at the same apple basically so here's your deadline you can apply for this money if for some reason it gets rejected if for some reason you've missed something then you get another application deadline just two weeks later one of the goals that we have right now is to get this process done as quickly as possible because any money right now. Now that is not spent in the state on December the thirtieth rolls back to the federal level so we are trying hard to get cities and counties to go through this process as quickly as possible and then in mid November we will know exactly what money would be actually allocated and spent within cities and counties and what money would roll back to the state to the for B. for use and other cares ACT applications I know you're gonna have some questions about that I do think that the letters a Fred and and sequential order in date order will help explain a lot of that and then I'll let mark fill in many gaps I'm sure I left. Up thank you Chris I'd like to also thanks this group and the cares committee directors has been very very helpful us we worked very diligently to come up with a process that will avoid duplication and not allow anybody to get when a windfall and to ensure that the monies are used as the federal government has dictated to us and not for things that are related to the covert virus let me make a couple of quick comments Chris said it I'd like to say it again the formula of allocation that you have is not the payment of money that it is simply four cities we used a per capita amount which is about thirty nine dollars and sixty cents that's house cities fund themselves that through turned back monies and other things it's virtually all per capita oriented so cities and towns are very used to this they understand it it's how they function on a routine basis so it's a it's a pretty simple thing for us to just do that math and make that as the allocation it is two bites of the same apple if a city and I feel pretty certain that there will be some places that get behind the curve a little bit didn't hear the first announcements or whatever the case may be and then they'll have another two week period in which to get in the rest of their allocations are the rest of their reimbursement it is a evidence based system we're waiting for CGH to put the final touches on it we know we've got about eighteen categories that are typically allowed in these grant processes we just need to get that plugged in with the vendor and get that ball rolling but I would anticipate in short order both organizations would put out a series of notices two county officials and. City officials to ensure that they start putting their evidence together we've been telling him for six months to do that in to get their applications prepared and ready to go the I I can't say this strongly enough it is the league's goal and the associations goal to ensure that the money is used correctly and that is why at the end of that period of time whatever's left goes back to the state if there's a county or city that feels like they need to do something else beyond what they're allocation is that be that that be the their job to come talk to you about it but we think this is about as fair way to ensure that it gets done correctly and to make sure that there's enough time with whatever monies may be left for you all to make some decisions that would be good for the state and with that OB I'm happy to turn it over. Rector. Thank you I appreciate the opportunity to come before you to discuss this proposal today first I want to let you all know and I want to make sure that the state cares act and then we said this but I will say it again the cares acts during committee will be reviewing this proposal shortly we meet at three thirty this afternoon there were some new there's new information that we just received today regarding this so there will be some discussion with the cares acts during committee We anticipate that what will be requested of ale C. F. here in the future will be exactly what has been shown today but. The way the cares acts during committee works is the members have the opportunity to review the request we make determinations we make a recommendation to governor Hutchinson and then he actually makes the decision as to what is requested of the fund and then that comes make that request to to your body to appear and then to a LC some of the things that I think you might be wondering about which is a couple of this a few of the decisions that that cares acts during committee members will be discussing this afternoon and we need to make some decisions about is first we did set aside a hundred and fifty million dollars that was the initial request that was made by the cities and counties the committee will have the opportunity to discuss whether or not they feel that that is the appropriate amount to recommend for the governor to approve and then ask for permission from the legislature for that amount of funding to actually be utilized again I do anticipate that that is what will happen this afternoon but I do want to let you know that that obviously it could change the other thing as. When we. We have looked at the cares act requests the proposals that we've received we look at the committee members look at what is being requested what they're asking for what they want to utilize the funding for and how that pending will be used. We did one set of requests for state agencies where we as a committee approved a list of we call them pre approved items such as face masks gloves hand sanitizer you know the list was a full page that's in your packet we believe that if the cities and counties need to spend money or and towns need to spend money on those things. We think those would be easily approved in the packet you'll also see that if the funds requests are higher than a fifty thousand dollar item then we would have an additional review process to that. One thing that I want to help you understand is the members of the cares acts during committee will review this afternoon things like. We've heard from the health department just for an example we hear from the health department regarding certain times of certain types of testing we hear about certain types of testing equipment and we also hear of certain types of testing supplies. One example would be if there were to be a city that wanted to use all of their money to buy a certain type of. Testing equipment. But there are no supplies available. We as a committee. Should know about that and make a recommendation that the city not waste those dollars does that make sense I hope that does so we're not necessarily going to get into the weeds on every single expenditure but this afternoon we are going to consider the request obviously. The cares ACT corona virus relief fund has some parameters. Buying a and equipment for a test FOR corona virus that would qualify. But yet it might be a waste under those circumstances so those are some of the things I think that we will be considering this afternoon so I hope that helps all to understand Obviously this will then come before the legislative body again through peer and then through a LC there will be more details I believe on you know more meat on the bones at that point so I hope that kind of helps you all to understand where we where we are where where I sent thank you to answer questions thank you are there any questions represented Ladyman. Thank you madam chair of. So and I haven't had time to read this Paul jazz I maybe have some questions answered in here but I'm just now saw So the split the fifty fifty split. how was that arrived at is that just what you thought you needed I mean or what did you talk about or think about when you came up with the fifty percent split for cities and counties well if I could speak to that I think maybe that began with the department of finance and administration so I think the department of finance and administration ask the cities and counties to begin with an allocation model and they asked them what they think would be fair also one thing that I forgot to mention is when the corona virus relief fund portion of the cares act was passed in large rules larger states places that have larger cities there were dollars specifically allocated to those large cities we also received guidance with direction as to how much of a percentage of the state's funding should go to the cities or counties and towns And then we also know that some states just. DO pass the money through to the cities that counties and didn't even give them direction so. I think we're kind of holding onto a little tighter than some places have but I think with Arkansas being rolled you know role state I think we have done a the health department is covering a lot of ground we think there's a lot of ground being covered across the state but I hope that helps you and then they can explain their allocate you you said you receive guidance I mean what was the source of that guidance from the United States treasury okay. So what what happened the I'll just first of all let me just Bragg on Chriss group a little bit we have spent his staff and members of my staff we have spent. Literally hundreds of man power hours coming up with a game plan looking at actual dollars spent it cetera etcetera and so when we sat down and talked about the the split we looked at a lot of categories we look at a lot of things we look at the number of police officers we look at the number of jails we considered urban populations rural populations I mean we went through a a litany of discussions to ensure that we were doing the right thing and it at the end of the day I thank I certainly felt Chris felt that fifty percent was the appropriate way to do it and that would cover virtually all of the bases and of course anything that's not they would have a second channel actually third chance to come back if there was something that was missed in the process I don't think there will be but if there is that uses that chance and the secretary's exactly right the original cares act allowed for substantial sums for cities of five hundred thousand or more we don't we don't have any of those and so we didn't get anything and then the other treasury advice was forty five percent should go to local governments of the entire amount Chris and I talked about that about five minutes in New full well that that was an outrageous sum of money in that it wouldn't be appropriate so we've tried to be we've tried to be thoughtful and respectful the taxpayer dollars and to understand where the need actually is. Thank you My next question is about I'm sorry Chris did you wanna respond to that. Will you talked about the you know the mask the gloves in the the the PP associate it with go in nineteen being covered understand that I don't know anybody else but I've got calls from my years small town mayors about. funding not being adequate to cover costs not PP not so in other words their income is down due to cope with. And they can't cover things and they've asked me you know can I use the street funds and no you cannot use the funds but but to cover payroll or other things cost that they have to pay AD but their income is down now larger city I haven't received that from large cities but but. Is that covered it can these small town mayors get money to help them keep from going in the negative because they've lost income due to the virus and if so what why doesn't represent of Ladyman that's a really good question and one that we were looking at closely when this all began back in March there was a really great fear that cities and counties were gonna lose revenue like crazy I think we live in a wonderful state that has handled things well that has the has kept the economy going to a point that we haven't seen the downturns that we expected however it's immaterial because the cares act does not allow for any of the cares ACT money to be used for lost revenue for cities and counties so it's a great question we've been watching that there's been several bills in Congress and may propose that might have opened it up for that but in the end what we're really looking at is where we've had additional expenditures not not lost revenue and there are pockets don't get me wrong there are some town some city some counties that have seen a reduction in revenue but thankfully we're blessed to hasn't been to the magnitude that we thought it might be what agree with you I think we're much better than other states in that call I was just own confirm that because a lot of states really hurting and and we appreciate the compliment you just gave us so. No I believe we have done a good job in our state I really do I think everybody has but but that's a federal thing that federal guideline you can't do anything about that's correct thank you. Yeah I just wanna comment made discuss of the resources for less than the resilience of the people of the state of Arkansas to be quite Frank they figured out how to make it work and you know and not really anything that just hard work ingenuity and the spirit of an Arkansas and to be quite honest I I think that's. Just what people that because I have a history of doing that at I do want to thank them they did they have worked tirelessly of was able to serve on that subcommittee to work with them to get this done I felt very strongly about it because the precedence that with that directly from the carriers act and how that was being spent and then I would also say congressman French hill also assisted in this efforts because he sets on the federal cares steering task force to provide more guidance so I appreciate him and his efforts as well Senator hammer you're recognized for one question because we're going to the next presenters sure thank you Mr chair and I was with doctor Marshall I missed the first part presentation is this for reimbursable expenses this is not going to be distributed is that correct that is correct okay thanks right thank you there no other questions thank you so much I will see you all at three thirty thank members unity we appreciate it thank you for your hard work on this very very important okay next we have Chris Hallett if Chris can come up to the and we're gonna talk about this. Board decision on pharmacy benefits. House gonna bring shall mean the it shall be met Kirk it shall be my coke is here if you'll come to the table as well I think shall be is a retired state employee that's here representing a few folks some of that go ahead and have shall be come up. Mister cook I'm gonna let you speak briefly on this as well. If you'll just recognize yourself for the record the need for you may proceed. Thank you madam chair and committee members my name's Chris hello I'm the director for the employee benefits division. I'm shall be McCook retired employee thank you and me fetch your secretary of transformation shared services thank you. Jake we DFA office of budget all right great thank you first will go to the employee benefits division board decision on pharmacy benefits and then will switch over to the last item which is the withholding of payroll taxes Mister Holland. Yes ma'am I'm I'm coming to respond to any of the questions related to the board decision August fifth the to establish a ray said in the art program designed for the twenty twenty one plan year I don't know if you want me to go into the specific questions Representative Boyd you're recognized for a question. Thank you madam chair so so with this plan redesign are we just taking something that the state was managing and handing it over to in the end that federal government I mean help help me understand what we're doing I mean I I understand how you know we might be helping the state's check book but we're still using taxpayer dollars dollars per taxpayer funded plans so just from that perspective could you help me. I view of of you a little bit different it is a governmental planned the contributions that the health plan receives is on behalf of the public school employees as well as the state employees and employer contributions attend to kind of clarify like that for simplicity purposes as as we go into any year we have art we operate like a typical check book we have contributions which are on the premiums on behalf of members as well as the employer contributions which a state contributions given to the health plan and we balance that against the cost and the cost of our health plan is made up of pharmacy and medical coverage as far as How we allocate those we take those to a different components we add those together and the cost is for to come across the whole group specifically to your question as far as the pharmacy benefits is not broken out separately it is part of the whole roll up and therefore that cost would be spread across the whole group this with the allocation of of the contributions of Medicare eligible retirees we take active contributions and spread those across the whole spectrum plea groups and in doing that were basically subsidizing the Medicare portion of of the health and pharmacy coverage as far as sending or allowing the federal government to actually handle those components of the plan it was part of the board recommendation and with the board approved to be able to do that what we were while operating against Representative Boyd was with about a forty nine million dollar just a little over forty nine million dollar deficit projected four plane you're twenty twenty one and two what we. Presented to the board was for the request was to how to back into that so we took the deficit work backwards so from a plans for expected we looked at the allocated assets we have left to allocate against that of deficit and was about fourteen point four five million that put us at about a thirty mile five million dollar deficit we did have some program initiatives a lot of those are dealing with farmers your medical savings in different components that we have there that's about four million we work in partnership there was a board request of me is the director of the V. D. to me for Floyer base contributions we met with the part in finance administration informative education for increased employer contributions and with that we had a five proof with the looking at a five percent rate increase for the population that the smaller amount but we increase the the statutory cap for the employer contributions it was at four twenty it's it when it went up thirty dollars to four hundred and fifty which is the current statutory cap by law at the present moment From from that peace than we backed into looking at what a rate increase would do with that population of. As far as the active and the non Medicare and then we were still looking at a significant A significant deficit and from there we had very little opportunities for them to start looking at some of those benefits and that was the pharmacy for party. All yeah a lot madam chair sorry the media so so again. I get that the there was a car there was a fiscal problem this is a solution I I guess were I'm coming at is you have our Kansans who were given a promise if you will or maybe yeah which always can be changed I realize that but a decision was made been made which might have been the right decision. But. Basically we have. This shifted over from the state government to the federal government which is trillions of dollars in debt and we didn't go ask it didn't it seems to me like it was a top down decision and we didn't really get any input from from the state employees is the or the retirees is to does this make sense would you rather make up for that deficit some other way verses this is just this is the fix take it or leave it you're done I guess that's that's my concern so I would I would say that that we had It's a hard task no matter what you're doing when you're dealing with the the cost versus the how to balance that and From that piece. We we were looking at what was the best for the health plan for the for the dollars and cents we're dealing with we have parity with the public school employees the public school employee group has not had the Medicare part D. coverage since around two thousand and seven that was eliminated for burgers for very similar reasons and they've done quite well sense and it was just one of the the mechanisms with the board was reviewed. I have a follow up question was there any room of negotiation with the benefit I mean are premiums rising and so what created the deficit what we would be looking at well the overall cost related to the costs for providing the plans have of going up yes ma'am our cost is increased steadily since about August of twenty eighteen more averaging of spend of about ten million a week and we burnt through pre inseparable model those reserves and there was so what's the amount of money that that you're paying ten for some they to manage these plans I mean that continues to go up so what I'm saying is is you know there seems to be kind of well what can we cut out for the beneficiary instead of the negotiating with the company they can't keep getting more money more money more money when you year so you know that's one of my concerns number two is I'm hearing from a ton of retired state employees that are very angry and upset about this decision how it was made when it was made without their into it and how it affects them I would like the name of every name and phone number and email of every board member that made this decision so I can send that to my constituents because I didn't make this decision this legislature didn't make this decision but guess who gets blamed for it US this is not a legislative action. So I'd I'd like to know those because I'm gonna send them on so that they can get those answers for those from those board members that made that decision. So the again timeline and then I'm concerned about the open enrollment. Or what are they supposed to do now if they don't have coverage for their pharmacy benefits were they supposed to do now. We are working there there are currently at. Thirteen thousand eight hundred and forty five people that this will affect sixty five plus retirees we've entered into a contract for a call center to reach out to these people we are sending emails we are sending letters we are going to make sure that we reach everyone it will not take effect until July I mean January one of twenty twenty and that's one of the so important on the timing of the board decision normally rates are set in June of each year because of code red in various things we were a little behind it was on the agenda for with that three meeting stricter Allen. Prior to the decision being made and and those are made public so there there was uh it you know it it was on there and there was notice that it was something for consideration the decision which is made in August was any of this discussed at the joint retirement to committee meetings that were held across the state was this an option ever discussed at any of those meetings that were held across the state not that I'm aware and we weren't invited to present at those meetings Mr Hallett you were there were you not no ma'am. Okay well there were representatives from the state employees. Retirement system maybe. I went with the entitlement or benefits was a discussion that was at those meetings I'm just wondering why it wouldn't have been on this committee agendas because we had a lot of retirees that were. I was I did not receive an invite okay. Thank you. I'm a is Senator hammer I've got yet for questions going to let Mister my coat speak first. Mr McCabe you're recognized thank you very much for let me to come. And since we're short on time I'm going to try to get right to the point. the first that most employees knew anything about this was an article By my that came out the second Sunday in August in the paper that would would that are pharmacy been taken away from us. There's not parity between. The teachers and the state employees the retirees right now because they Tucker pharmacy benefits and they did not reduce the premium line Senate. Also. They use state matching the the board has allowed a certain percentage of the state match for employees and retirees in the law. For a retired state employees. So they're taken that part of the match and the premiums we've been podia we paid for pharmacy. And allocating that other. To other policies. Active employees and whatnot also. Medicaid gives them a rebate of almost ten million dollars a year. Because they provide our pharmacy benefit they're gonna lose that. That. We don't like the way they went about it. I have looked at the minutes and what not permit the benefits subcommittee and the board. Prior to August fifth in show up anywhere as far as I can find. And it showed up is one little man and the consultants recommendations at the bottom of these initiatives and it said. Medicare eligible employees to part D. which is a commercial plan is private companies. And the and then it said. The net it is thirty eight point five three million dollars that's our premiums of state match and the federal. Rebate and then it said the net they gain on its twenty seven some. So the difference was the federal rebate. So no there was no talking with us at all in which you know that's okay but you know the allow all the state love the code requires that agencies disclose to you all your benefits when you're hired. Insurance and other benefits are to attract and retain good employees we were attracted we studied and now you're taken our benefits away from us and not even reducing the premium. Their own consultant said the pharmacy inflation for this next year was eight percent would be happy to take eight percent increase that's what insurance people do. If the standard is higher the increase of right they have never made a statement that our group was over spending is not anywhere you won't find. We cannot say. Hello all those board members Walcott fifteen of the fourteen because our state Representative is vacant. State employee. They walked in the meeting and without any discussion as far as I can till voting for this sign and it never been discussed before the benefits subcommittee according to law must review all the plans every year and in a new initiative. That provide a recommendation on this because they were not allowed to. They skipped that. As far as I'm concerned with the way they're handling of funds is misappropriation of funds. The frame is would pay cash funds. The match in allowances to the schools in the state agencies that that match can only be used for the intended purpose of course that can spread across other other plans we don't own part of it but it's allocated to this by the board policy. I've got a whole stack of information of that excerpts from Los. What we want thank you know this will ruin some families I got a letter in here from a guy with Parkinson's retired. J. parks is seventeen years people like that. Seventy five hundred dollar donut hole is going bankrupt some of these people. That were promised and that intention when they want to work for the state that they did have this. So one all we do what all professionals do. Clearly transparently. However consultant. Shall what our premium should be for medical. And paper calling officer saved now and he just said pharmacist not stated separately no it's not but but they know how much of the money they spend for a plan is pharmacy number just medical it's reported but to different places US label on the medical ID B. R. X. on the drugs easy to come up with the percentage I'm good five minutes if we get a couple of things that we've asked for dinner fallout to the so I I don't mean to cut you off and let you continue but I have to go to another medium is from seven A Representative Ladyman to continue to conclude the meeting I'm yeah you should be you should be able to pull the claims data to know what's been spent on pharmacy and without being spent on medical that's not difficult at the I'd like to have a copy of the report from the consultant that you utilized in order to make this decision plus copies of the minutes that were from these board meetings I would like to see that and how this decision was made it's not one that I agree with so I do appreciate you I'm gonna turn this over to represent of Ladyman and others I have questions as senator hammer's wanna have thank you thank you. One question Senator hammer you're recognized thank you Mr chair. Thank you. Try again okay ma'am sorry. Thank you Mr chair actually couple of chairs well first of all who is the consultant to Joe used to arrive at the decision as far as the. Medical costs was it Milliman or who was a yell told me became heirs at Milliman Milliman out of Atlanta Sir okay and would you would you send me and I don't know if chair once at sent all committee members but could we get a copy of that please glad to all right and then can a couple quick ones Mister. When thanks What pulmonary work was done on the part of the board that you can document as far as reaching or determining the financial impact to the retired state employees with this decision reason I'm asking like everybody else in the room on this side you know we're getting emails from people that you know it's gonna be four thousand five thousand dollars a year which such a that is a kick in the bridges to the state employees you know I've heard said time and time that they were promised work cheap we'll take care in retirement and so what Plumeri work was done prior to the board making decision to assess the cost to the employees retired employees every spring we start looking we first and foremost we go back and we generally have an actuarial of representation or presentation on the health plan in the status as of the claims go in for every respective year going in leading into the next plan year we start looking at those rates around August I'm sorry April may and we start looking at all the the costs associated to premium looking at all the trend analysis looking at initiatives of programs and we start looking To look for ways to help offset the increased cost whether be inflationary or just increased cost to the member this year was a little bit different more difficult and tedious with us doing virtual meetings and with the code or the related charges associated with cove in but we have all the presentations that have been provided before the board members at each of the meetings as well as any of the following questions that's what shapes the path that we that we start looking at and that is by their questions or commentary and things that they want to see in the projections Mr cook who represents the retired association as far as being present at those meetings to voice our Scott the sitting right here. May I say a couple of things first of all I I didn't get to mention because we're in a hurry I served on the board over twenty five years my last term was up two years ago. Before it was a board it was an advisory committee I helped draft the laws that they were the board was formed under and operates under and I was I was acting director of the division for a good while just few years ago between directors so I'm very familiar. With the board policies and the law. And we just a. We can see one of eight. Tucker pharmacy benefits kept kept premium and we've got to go buy another pharmacy benefit. Commercially. So not only. Is Donna holders a premium. But what is Falak that. That they just look for a quick. Thirty five thirty twenty seven million dollars and there we were and they took it but there's there's a big difference in teachers and state employees state the state requires four hundred for up to four hundred fifty dollar match for state employees school districts only have have to pay a hundred fifty a month Mister you have a comment yes Sir at thank you Sir and I apologize for interjecting like this I've got a steering committee that I've to run off to and I did want to first off thank you for giving me a chance to to discuss this issue this is something that we have wrestled with for a long time I wanted to take advantage of this meeting to make the members of the committee who are also on joint budget committee where this issue will come up in our in our budget hearings coming up here on October the state will be as Chris mentioned increasing the amount we're paying to four fifty the public school fund will also be asking for an additional amount to help support teachers health insurance when we look at this we wanted to make sure that state was taking a it wasn't merely shifting all this cost out on to the beneficiary is under the members of the plan but we really when we look at this there were not many good options just to be perfectly blunt the. Lands a done a good job in the last few years of avoiding cost increases of managing their cost we found ourselves in a situation where the twenty one year. Look very bad and our reserve looked rough and we had to make some tough decisions again thank you I apologize to all stick around for any questions if there are any but I did want to just say that. Okay so the premium question will be discussed so what you're saying yes Sir that will be a part of every agency's budget everyone who's got an employee special revenue general revenue however that employees pay they're gonna see an increase in those costs nine thank you. US Senator hammer given question. Mr I'd like to ask if you would when you get the list of board members would just send it out to all of us so we can share that equally please all right you can send that the Mister price. All right any further questions. Representative Gonzalez you're recognized I didn't touch it. I used to be on. You thought I'd learned how to work the same so I was on a a Mister just could well be all dressed the question of you know these employees were promised these benefits when they were hired on and now. That's going away get dressed eight how that's. Just fun. Where they promised the specific benefits I have one of was the I'm not found an actual document stipulating that those the center may of sixteen when I was brought under heavy BT that that's there I know there's there's statutory laws and stuff related to the retirement system in and duties but as far as defined benefits that would be guaranteed there's not as long as there's a health plan they would have based on our policies in rags that are done by the board and and some or federal as well as legislative input or loans that would dictate coverage criteria eligibility those would be covered as long as they're meeting those but if the plan Is Mr McCook it stated twenty one dash five four hundred series or all the laws governing EBT as a board and is the an entity those stipulate that. How would a review things and what we can do but there's nothing in there guaranteeing the defined benefit okay so the so these are not defined benefit plans in there it is not currently sharing TV now okay. Okay of Representative brown you're recognized. Thank you Mr chair Mr Hallett. I'm just curious I know that Medicare part D. came out within less than twenty years ago probably last ten fifteen years has are state employee of. Retiree. Insurance always covered drugs. As far as I've gone back over thirty five years. That's been offered the teacher or the public school employees side was brought on under EBT in two thousand four and the Medicare part they in two thousand seven they removed due to budgetary and fiscal things in two thousand seven and they were moved to part D. plan. That was in two thousand and seven two thousand seven is when we got Medicare part D. okay I knew it had to be but then there of a other question I have is have you all done some analysis to to illustrate What happens financially I know the donut hole has always been an issue and I thought some work had been done on that donut hole so that it wasn't quite so big but when you have but not everybody. Gets hurt by that not everybody takes that many methods of but those people who do I know that Medicare part D. was a great benefit to people who did take a lot of methods even if there was a donut how. so I'm just a. And we trying to ask have you all done any illustration said site with your if you're a person who with the that has about medical X. of drug expense of that ordinarily runs this much and they're gonna have a premium for Medicare part D. and then you're gonna faces down a hell have you illustrated what that's going to cost a person we have looked at some of the current utilization from low utilize yours up to some of those that are I was amazed that we have some members of Ron ten drugs but even looking at those drugs in what we reviewed a lot of those would come out of kind of a wash if you would if you will from zero plan there are some part be plans that go as high as eighty and plus those are in my opinion not needed for the utilization of our membership but we did do that analysis and found that we would we would not have a large part of that membership fall into that category. Follow just one follow up so when I I used to sell. Lands and so Medicare part D. when it first came out it was just one it there was just Medicare part D. now you're saying that there are parties that cover more than some others. At the premiums extremely large. There's a zero dollar up to what we found around eighty dollars a month for the plan a month most of the plants around fifteen that would follow with our membership thank you. Absent. Thank you you're recognized thank you Mr chair I just wanted to clarify Representative brown it was at two thousand seven that Medicaid part D. began having coverage it was I don't know the year if that two thousand seven was when our public school employees get this pharmacy benefit taken away and they went to Medicare part D. so for thirteen years they have not had the pharmacy coverage but the state employees have continued to have the coverage. Yeah I think it was about that same. Frame anyway thank you yes you read whereby something the reason that the school employees don't have the pharmacy plan under under the plan. Is because the the schools and state reimbursement. Are not reimbursement of matching FOR the school employees is not high on the. To meet the standard for the federal government. To rebate so late in the rebate because our matching was too low that's wine would quit now I've been around this long since nineteen eighty seven. But if you say you're getting ten million dollars for state employee retirees not getting anything from the feds for school employees is more of a meal you can afford to do because you can't you can't have equity at all but we want either them to give us a raise on our premium. And keep our keeper benefits and raise premium for the have to. You know or what are we want a reduction in our premium to reflect if if if pharmacies forty percent of our span. The woman that much reduction is not that much but it let's say is twenty percent of our span we won't a reduction of twenty percent in our premium this only fair. Book otherwise we're paying for something that we're not getting and I close my case we have more questions of Representative rye you're recognized yes Sir thank you. That thank you a Representative placement of aiming within this disease actually starts this this increase until January of next year is that once dollars yes Sir that's correct. Well it would be good if we have something from the schools and something from these folks to show on what it would cost to cover a little bit more I'm I'm sure something's gonna happen here but you won't be able to afford from at least from our level if we helped out at all how much you would actually call for some type of a copay. If you could you mean the total amount that it would take to plug this state to keep the pharmacy benefits that your question it would be forty because it looks like these these folks are fix get really pop here maybe forty eight million twenty eight million forty eight forty. Thank you. I would suggest on that server that they take the the pharmacy records that they have on people and run a scenario on the different part the plans that are offered and I can come up with that. Is that something that could be done secretary for. I I think there's some complexity to that back when it was originally originally out there's around twenty seven party offerings as far as entities offering services in many is about thirty five to fifty respective plans so. The plans are chosen. By the then customize by the actual participant so there if it's more what concerns as far as deductible or whether it was the co pays are different pieces so they can pick different tiers it would I don't know that we could do an accurate live to to bounce against all those plans it's difficult because each Medicare part D. plan is customized is director how it was saying to that specific need are you going to list your specific drugs you're taking and then it'll give you options that help a little lower higher copay and different different scenarios to get the best plan for each member sent to run a scenario and on all part the participants would be almost impossible because we don't we don't have all of that information. Another question a Representative Gonzalez you're recognized. Thank Mister so just curious back in two thousand seven when the school employees work taken off partner work or put on part day did they get a reduction and their premiums. I was not here in two thousand seven during that BB administration. Further certainly not pay a premium for for pharmacy now their premium is their monthly premium for medical a. retiree only is only a hundred dollars retiree only for state employees a hundred seventy fat. But I want to say one thing you know an open enrollment starts October the first so some of these folks will go in by apart date because they think they're out here and so that's that's another complication is making this decision when a the it. Right yeah I'll agree with that that seems seems Miller problematic Go ahead Sir could I clarify Representative yes go ahead senator thank you one thing that we chose to do with removing the board with moving the pharmacy benefits is all other state employees are getting a five percent increase this year the sixty five plus retirees Senator Medicare eligible will not get that increase so not getting the increase was a reduction if we we we did run the numbers on if we let them keep the pharmacy benefit and just get gave them an increase we would have to increase their healthcare costs around forty percent and so we felt that this choice one is on average what is that on a dollar amount. It it would depend because some some people have a plan just for themselves some have it for a couple some have it for a family so. Is it available to the employees to us the public. Is that available the amounts of the plan your figures. Your computations sure Mr had like to see you it would it was in the actuarial analysis and I can present that you're and you're gonna get about the other you're going to get us that right yes Sir on consent to this okay would be it would be to it to equal what was done would be or for across the board forty percent. And that was the project okay and did I hear you right say that the most of the part deep supplement plans that are offered you said most would fall in that fifteen dollar category that would have you which would be a curator generic or generic preferred yes Sir and the cope with the the what we saw was around the zero to fifteen dollars a month it's still I can't tell the member or the petition want to select but the copays would actually be with less than ours then we have on the plan our Generico page fifteen dollars unless a drug reference front there's very few in that sense but a fifteen dollar copay where you're seen from three to nine dollars and from seven to say fifteen or thirteen so when you we look at the overall spend on a person on three on three drugs qualify for Jenner generic pull preferred you're looking at spending forty five dollars for us for those three drugs and then the maximum at thirteen it would be close to that but bottom line most of them fell in the upper twenties. Okay so did you consider reducing the premium the premium that they're paying by at least that amount so they could cover their own. Party supplement retarded thirteen thousand eight hundred forty five employees of it fifteen dollars a month is that I think I think that there's a logical assessment to make from the situation but when we look at the overall spend for the different categories we're still sixty dollars a month in the whole based on the spend the spent average bins two hundred and forty a month from that but is forward being considered I think it it it was and I I think you can be re visited but I don't see it economically matching up the welcome in a I think we're about out of time to read it and I think we need to move on it's it's getting late so I appreciate John thank you so we need to move to the. The next item. temporary withholding of payroll taxes secretary venture. Thank you Mr chair I was asked to give an overview on the payroll tax deferment on all the state's twenty twenty there's a memorandum random from president trump on August twenty eight the iris publish some guidance to employers to elect to defer