Legislative Recidivism Reduction Task Force

After minutes motion and second alright all those in favor say I thank you is there anything before see the representative of gasway is joining so we have judge richardson representative dalby representative gas way all joining the asum. Miss clifton unfortunately II don't know if i'm telling something I shouldn't but I think she had an accident broke her leg so she will not be joining us today which is unfortunate and so we wish her all the best with that so I think with that will jump right into the business portion of the meeting if you had all got an email I think from his clifton she had sent some recommendations that she would like to present at our meetings so we are sort of just working our way through that list I think she made some great recommendations so with that I think we are going to invite up. Okay we're not advised up director co pleasure if you would come join us at the table. And will let you have some opening remarks and then we may just jump right into questions brought down there at the end would be great and members joining via zoom if you would. Here just unmute yourself if you have a question in wall will recognize you as as best weekend so thank thank you all for being here. And then if you would ma'am as soon as you're set turn that mike on and introduce yourself for the record and you may begin. My name is andrew cocolas and i'm the debt to direct health services and programs my position requires that oversee the mill help department the medical department as well as all the programs for the agency and would you mind pulling that microphone just a little bit closer it'll it'll be down a little better there thank you can you hear me better now that's much better thank you department corrections are provides programs while they make populations at all our facilities mill health services program such as substance abuse we have a programs for our six offenders we also have programs such as chapel services that we provide and also we are provide work with these programs so any program within the agency follows up on a massive agent except for your work release a facilities I used to oversee those areas it's weild but I got the promotion so now i'm over just your programs inside the facility when we look at our programs we look in at the needs of the ma population becoming in the washington for the mails and make person for the females and they go through the intake process in the use an assessment tool in order to dictate exactly what programs that in make needs based on his charges and so that's done at the washington and the make fierce and unit right now we don't have a mill helped administrator they'd use the overseas that program because he retired in august of last year in their position was not feel and so we can apply in this hamer. And my haim or who's out rehabilitation director to fill in that position in order to make sure that our programs continue we also have a programs that deal with up those they may still have substance abuses subsidiabilities which gale stepped is the administrator for that program she overseas there when I say hell services I have a health services administrator that overseas the health services but if debit director on the window insurers that all those programs are rain the way the policy dictates in there getting those services as require we also have a volunteer position that coordinates with our volunteer services for those that people they call me and I want to provide a a n a program such as their we have a lot of the up programs that are filtered through our chaplancy service and they count a help with a making sure those programs are provided just based on staffing and the need we're count a short stay up at this at this point so we look to our volunteers to assist and they do all some job we also have what you call or release program that those in makes. Is it if a twelve week evidence based program that those inmates they're again close to being a release there they go through our release program in order to provide the resources in the services that they need was they go back out into the community we tried to make sure that our programs for the most part is forced reinjuries saturday at the aston union and so we do have several release programs we call that our reentry unit but then again most of our prisons were not set up for programming and so that's one of the barriers that we face is for its programming is the space you have you live in areas but then again you don't have the issue classroom setting for those they make to be able to come out of their living space and go to a separate area to actually get the programs and so we make do what we have based on the make up of the facility also with our staff they weren't many heads they do a a great job with what we have our resources so when we look at our programs we can look at the unit d philscopy it the staffing and then we also look at the custom level of inmates save for instance you have europe maximum security unit those are those inmates that their facility that don't do we all in population this based on their senate's or something they've done the behaviour problems they go to the maximum security union so there you don't have any space for programming and so you have to we have to do the last the chapel a lot for our programming and then we might use another area for programs and so what we the there was we looked at the makeup of the population you have a lot of life first. And so just based on the fact that they're basically in one man sales they have an assault to behavior you have to come up look close it at the program that you're going to offer them and so we started what we call a life for program that means that they come out their sales for limited time and then we have different volunteers to come in and actually do a program and we were looking at things such as. Storybook project wish they can come out they do they do the books will they read them they are able to send those home to their children so we try to make sure that they keep their connection with their families this wheel but as a whole when we look at programs it has to be geared toward their assessment when they come inside the facility and that's done in and take and they cannot dictates what programs they're actually yeah that are actually available to the you have you a school ged program which that's done by the school district and then you also have your just give you a number of the programs that we have to give you a better idea we have the legacy program we have a release program we have a bedroom's long term program inside out program which there is more of a peer program where you have a pure special if we have people that came in from the is a peer recovery program that those they made there are in that program they get certification if for as once they get out they can be put in a county where you get someone to face our substantial subsidy youth problem and so that's one out programs we have college courses there's something be with their day to see that we didn't have before where we have college programs that all our facilities we have for lander smith we have shorter we have a issue new port we have c ark and just based on the second chance p l grant we'll look at it adding some more college courses to our pro- programming as you know programs such as that that just makes it in make a little bit more um employable once he gets out in plus it makes them a better inmate because you don't create as many problems one thing I do want to make note earlier there before I took on this. A position as a program supervisor I was award of a facility for probably fifteen years so as i've seen both sides have the security side indiana have the programs that and so when you look at the inmate population you have to look at base that need a bit population and you can give them opportunities for the programs but allowed the program the volunteer some disadded to take advantage of the programs and then there are some that does not but we we try to make sure that they available to those that want the programming. Also we have wage we have wagen inside our facilities to that gives them get him ready for careering is programs against them but improving academic basic scheme of painful that nature so we do partner with the air division of work for services on those programs. Director if you don't mind i'm all stop you right there because I know that there's probably some questions and we could probably spend a lot of time you don't continue to talk about this but II want to be mindful the fact that I don't want to have another two hour meeting like we did last time if I can help it I think all of our days that are all of our time here and and all of us here would appreciate that so if you're open do you mind taking some questions right off the the bad and we can it is you need to get back to maybe some the other things that you intended to to get into if that's okay that's fine because II know I have a question that I think that i'd like to get addressed as well so i'll i'll start in then I think senator tucker does and maybe send our cooper flat center deputy cooper and then discover clean okay so as the drafty director over the programs how do you accept assess the effectiveness of your programs before the participants have been released back into the community so as someone is going through this and before their release how are you assessing those we've we've heard testimony in previous meetings where as a relates to the evidence based practices of the programming so i'm just sort of trying to figure out what assessments are in place to make sure that they are the best and effective most effective programming you would base a look at the ones that actually complete the programs first of all um usually you have legacy and administrative it's actually hands on that actually goals to the units and actually reviews the are the staffing the the up classes the way they be enough delivered and then assessment is done is forced the material that they are actually being given now like I said a lot of the programs are voluntary. And so you have to look at those that actually go to the actual program and actually get the information and then those the behaviour afterwards you have to counter located like that so each program is assessed in once they complete the internet program assessment is done by the staff there to make sure that they completed all the course work they completed all the material that was required for them in order to say that they actually completed the course of graduate the course and so you decide you look at it then based on their time you look at their behavior since they been in your program because if they're if they're taking anger management of something of that nature and then there are still getting this spiners and steel heaven behavior problems you have to count and go back and look and say okay evidently they didn't get the information or they did when able to actually process the things that they were mean thought in class and then you can't manage from your office you have to actually go and see what's going on in the classroom and so when you say as far as assessing the program you just have to look at the behavior once they've been through it. Name is returned don't thank you for being here today and for the work that you do accord to beginning of your comments you you mentioned specifically a twelve week evidence based program continue just tell me a little bit more about that that program think it would be our the release program their program focuses on incarcerating individual who have a minimum of fourteen weeks from their transfer eligibility date and preferably with an approval corroll plan this too weaker class is a hail money that those if what three hours the program will require the individual to have a job assignment with the classroom courts his job as I miss and homework assignments range is between thirty five to four to five hours per week emphasis is placed on social and life skills with leisure time pass the positive reinforcement issues and encourage it vision of correction progress specialist sense the division of communication names are the individuals in the program and they are prove county a parole and so there's to put our release program that we do so we give them those resources that they need an after getting ready to be released so we have different of people coming and we have people such as us nap coming in and make sure they get signed up for those benefits if they are needing some can of housing or job reading its skills that's what we provide in their program so when it's destitute a week we are released program that we offer at the aston union as I said the s the union is where we tried to put most of all our reiterate release programs there at one location but just based on the sizing of the unit and the space then we're looking at moving it to other areas as well. What percent that's that that's at the extra unit only yes they said there's the unit the plan was to make sure that those in mates once they get rid of for release their move over to the afternoon it and then they put in the release program and this when we make sure that we get him a sign up to make sure that they have all those resources know about those resources once they actually parole out what percent of folks being released from adc I know you're not going to have the exact number i'm just curious for a ballpark what percent of folks being released from eighty six go through that twelve week release program. Right now I would say maybe ten percent because they release for my facilities yes and so those are the ones that we can are we scream for those there are close to their release and then we move them over and we can move on based on when they're going to be corolled outside but they still release my facility not just extra unit this piggybacks on what center you're more was asking but do you have an idea of what there are citizens and rate is for people who go through that program as opposed to those who down no sir I don't. Um and this may be a crazy idea it wasn't mine just for what it's worth if it's good good or bad but it was it was it was enticing to me and some of the test model that you've had maybe think about it a little bit more how feasible would it be in your opinion if we had one unit in our system where everyone who is twelve months from release or pick the number twelve eighteen months from release everyone goes to that prison and it's a it's a set it's a prison that's focused specifically on reentry and all the programming that you need is there all the services and so forth how does that strike you all that sounds great that would it would be nice if we had a one location that way we could make sure that everyone gets the services because then you would have and then we'll be releasing from one location when we are looked at the aston uniform the release that was what it's basically set up for trying to make sure that those that are getting released actually going to ask the unit in actually being released from there network we can check the boxes no one that they get there are so security cars they get there information is forced the burst of tif kits and beings a bed nature and so it would make it a lot would make it a lot better if we could actually do that right okay thank you let me ask more question and this is this is a big picture question and again I understand you're not going to have a precise answer but i'm just kind of looking for generalities of of all the programming that you have you know you mention the college programs career reading this programs that sort of thing what and your judgement we have a need in our present system for a certain amount of programming and my question is what percent of that mean what percent of that need are we meeting. Is that makes sense and it may be poorly worth it we have rephrased it yeah so let's i'm just going to make up some numbers but say what we have ten thousand people in in a in in our prison systems who need college programs in career readiness programs in the we have three thousand spots in that case we would be meeting thirty percent of our needs but you see what i'm saying in and so my question to you is how much demand is there how much will we providing is there a lot more demand than than we're providing resources for and it's in our my question really is beyond just the numbers of spots it's also the quality of the programming I mean if if the programming is not good what do we need to be doing better there I just want to know the scope of what we're providing it and if if we're following short of that how much further we need to go what well when I look at the programs we when you talk about the knee of course we need mel health programs because a lot of the inmates come in only up issues in substantial abuse issues so of course we're going to need a those programmes for that area but when you talk about me in the needs of all immates we meet him to a certain point but we can always do better we can always do better we we we give them the opportunity we give them the based on assessment to identify those that are in more me than others and so we make sure that those that are melbourne for a level to one or whatever based on that is those are a put they are put in the program first based on the knee but just looking at our in may population as a whole mel health substantial abuse a big drivers of our population. In of course work ethic a lot of come there that never had a job there's no structure so they they need that to their work it because and when it comes time for them to be released if they hadn't held a job before everything inside the union if the destruction we tell them when to get up we tell them when to go to be able to tell him when the we washed a close we make sure they go to medical and things that that nature so they're on the schedule but once they get out then they have to do out of it for themselves but it's more great network at the and then while we are providing them work it we're making sure that those services this way okay thank you ma'am all right miss cooper we recognized thank you chairman thank you deputy director call pleasure I have just a a couple of questions actually follow up on something that both similar gill more and and sounded a tucker said if you would pull that michael apologize thank you miss chairman can hear me now perfect thank you david you read your call clear is there I don't know is there AAA mechanism to keep up with what happens after these individuals are released to determine the the amount of effectiveness that are certain program has a certain programming has so for example if an in my has gone through anger management or several anger management programs and then gets out and then re offends in you know I violent manner is mechanism that keeps up with it do we then we keep up with it after they get out out i'm not sure on their question is for if we actually keep up with that person as far as when they get out now when he comes back. He real fears and come in comes back then we have the information the show that he's had all these programs in and what he did why he was on the inside but I think there would be more on the best on the acc sat is forward maybe if they actually keep up with the. What they did once they were released and I and I appreciate that answer when was so when they come back and that's happened with with that make you really valuate whether the particular programming they went through before was I know successful or or even worse led to you know further conduct that nature well I guess they're the payers because a lot of times you can give them the program and they can complete the program but the year what they do once they get out a lot of time they go back to the same community hang around the same friends in you know something occurs while they're actually outside of the prison system but as four as saying that okay they took this program in they fail or we didn't do something on the inside adult I don't think they you can count a look at it but you you can a person at safer answers a person gives the college degree why they're with us get all their easily pay as the courses they get out they do something real faint and so can we say that the college courses were not effective I don't think we can save the college courses would not affect it because we gave them the tools in the resources that they need it why they were inside but it's all about the choices that you make once you get out so I guess this and I appreciate that if if that's the case then what metric by you do you you know determine the advocacy of a program by them okay if if they are taking the program and say for answers their day they get maybe another year or two years to get out if they take the program in their behavioral changes while their insight worries you had that person there was always getting dismantaries always doing something to be put in restrictive housing then you have to go back and look and see ok. He took this programming the good maybe there are something else that we can actually offer to him to make sure that he actually is behavioral changes because that's what it is is the behaviour it's a choice of behavioral choice and that's what you find a lot of times is the behaviour that's why I can gave you the background that have been on the security decide as a warden and now i'm on the program sat so I see it to fall thank you for your answers thank you mission. Thank you mister chairman deputy director coclays you scoot to see you you also let me want to thinks and I want to say this before we start because last week less might I made a statement that I want to restate that path with a freedom is evidence base pathway to freedom is not even in space and I think and i'm here and you say something about the release program is well being evident space I know we brought ifi into the program in two thousand five which we did they bar the study that was done the comparison study the empirical study and we know there's a process that it has to go through as far as the journal reviews all those things while we drop we did not go that far but we had a lot of studies that were done to make it evidence based in the review process that it has to go through we knew that it worked we had seven seven programs in five states we knew the first stake we did we did a study that was a fifty page study done by doctor j johnson barran johnson I talked with doctor kin can feel last week while as friday and we talked about the whole process of evidence base and what we had to go through is it I fi program and i'm here next term again and I realize that there is the study to reclaim and I think we had made a goal here to say that i'll programs need to be would be evident space I think that's a great goal but at the same time I think reality because the process it takes to get to that place it's I don't think that's the reality that we've really looked into that weekend accomplish all that and we were told that a hundred programs were not evident space all of them and the department of corrections and so with this twelve week evidence based programmed it were talking about here. What is the success rate it may be and as I look at pathway to freedom and all the programs coming through I know that we use a lot of the evidence based practices but yet we may not be based evidence because we've not gone through the proper research journal reviews and it takes some years to get that accomplished so I think we'll have to define what that term is at some point or what evidence based means so that we can further think about it look at the reality of it can we actually be all the program be evidence based with the amount of years and the money it takes to do the process did that with prison fellowship and understand the terms of all that stuff but I would like to know the success rate and I think you may have mention that of this release program and how do you measure the rate of success and how many years has it been in place because I don't know much about the release program think the release program is being in place I want to say about two two maybe about two years and so basically what we do we as is more of resources when I say evidence the base that means I got people coming from the community come in in vietnam know about the services that are available to them once they get out this while we try to make sure that before they are released they know where they can go to secure housing they know where they can go if they need to uh miracle things of that nature so it's more of a you get ready to get out so we want to make sure that we get everything resources that we can provide to you so it'll make it easier for you to stay out of polls to come in back so that means job reading this we get them ready for jobs we make insure that they know uh opportunities right now we get ready to start another program that's grant find it and it's ambassadors of christ where they are going to provide um. Look at providing them information for polastic county making county in jeffs and county just those three counties where they're gonna assist with the things such as jobs such as housing things that are going to keep them out because we know if they get out they don't have a job then they're gonna read they get out they don't have anywhere to stay there going to reopening and so those are some of the things we're looking at and it out deals with no one the resources and no i'm work to go to prevent the resources and so we provide a resource manual as well that has a listing show on where you can call where you can go and where you can acquire those services and a lot of times this one of the barriers when they get out they don't know just just think about you be locked up for ten years and you have someone that's been doing everything for you but now you get rid to get out you to burn all your breaches which are family things that then agency now you need somewhere to stay. Most of time your family members are let you stay a little while but after why you won't have to do something you will have to get a job and you will have to be able to provide and so that's why we let them know what benefits are out there and where to go to get those benefits I think thank you thank you I think one of my main question here and i'm i'm let should respond to that there was a sturdy that was done and released in twenty twenty one it was a twenty sixteen study and it stated fifty one percent of inmate in arkansas returned to prison after three years of release did not go through a program that a huge number so my question with that what are we doing to ensure inmates have access or encourage to participate in programs when we look at that number we don't know what the predictors to recitive is a more but we know that fifty one percent did not complete or go through a program and so what are we doing to encourage those then makes because I think there's where a problem lies when we look at recipism study and recivism rate that we can allow fifty one percent then makes me release never to complete a program so that was dine so I don't know the well we know the answer in trying to make changes in there so can you tell what's happening to ensure that that doesn't happen well any inmate that comes in the system like they are put through the intake process we look and see what the educational level deals if they got it a ged and we look at those bells things and then allow the programs that we offer our voluntary and then you have some programs there are both stipulate and so you might have an inmate that is bored stipulated to take a program in order to be released but that in may world decide not to take that program and play at his time because he don't want to take the program. And so the resources are there we let in may population know that they are available because when they first come in you have each department meet with those their mates and counter let them know that hey i'm all but i'm a would be invitation i'm older school i'm over this area that way they know what is available today but like anything it has to be a choice a lot on choose not to participate unless it's something that deals with the good tire if about take this program and is gonna provide good time and I get out early then i'm going to take that program not because I need it it's just based on what it offers and so each facility all the inmate population know what programs are available to there but it's a choice if they want to take the program okay we have a couple more questions in the queue or you have one more one more one and just keep in mind we have three other people to speak okay thank you my last question is and I think this is some we're coming into one of things is trying to get him in the programs were receiving at least fifty a week or more applications from inmates that are sending to come into the program situation that were happened right now and I know we've been requested to increase our numbers where that's a hundred b two hundred baits whatever it may be and ordered in mates in there with the process of getting them in there when we talk about vetting them get them in there and then when you do the the after the recruitment process then make a net decision to get him in there has been difficult now when we look at the change in custody scores for c four lot of those guys that we or women that were trying to get in the program this heart to get on end to programs. Because of the screening process that's what things that I would like to see change I think we've been a look too heavy on that screening process when we got so many inmates in the system that when you've got a third peter community we would hope that that the reputable community is going to help change some of the factors from violent to a less violent person and so what are the in that's what it problems were up against right now because if it won't increase numbers and get him in there describing process has to be the done different I know for myself I start the initial screening process but when I release that scoring process to both the wardens it's a different process that may there may be sixteen that may drop to eight or half but when we look look at that I think we need to consider how long was it that they had a distinct six months a year but these men and women are close to the door it could be eighteen months our program is eighteen minutes it could be they're getting out sooner so I think with the screening process there's something that needs to be looked into so that we can get more people involved in programs before they get out of prison how can we make changes there well when you talk about the screening prices is a two four bank I don't you look at the dismay history so you look at I made the same fifteen dismant areas within the last year or two years along our four assaults a solo stay of ever verbal or dashing up being the bed nature so that person when you look at the facility that you try and move them to you had to look at a security concerns as well because each unit is set up different because you get those maximum level inmates appalls to those there are that don't have those assaulted behaviors so when you talk about a program and you have staff that are not security which you will have some security. Available to you but you require on a person to come in and teach a clairs whereas you have inmates like you say the screen of process need to be a streamline but then again you don't know all the history and that might be some of some of the problem that you've run into you just looking at some of the things but you don't know how the history because a lot of time in order for a person to get in a program he's getting close to getting out now i'm going to be do that but for the last four years he been tear rise and stayed he been dation stay he been doing things that would not allow him are going to that program and so it is you have to look at it from boston and and and I do and I know i'm only almost and look at some of that and I have talked with both wardens concerning all of that I think when we look at a third period there's got to be a balance between all of that in particularly we're trying to increase numbers and get him involved in programs I think that's something we have to discuss it has to be on the table so that we're all on the same page and I don't know how many programs weren't through the same process I know I start that initial my staff myself and then we move that forward to look at security checks and all that stuff and so you and I know the levels are changing it used to be c four lane of c four guys in would they have a level twenty thirtieth stuff like that debt ranges so trying to understand there now and say thank you for your answers to the questions thank you we have representative of gas away via zoom for a question and I think this pooly after him be you represent gaza working here I can thank you deputy director clock please be in here today and I apologize that I couldn't be there in person. Uhm as you know we've been particularly concerned about arkansas however city I just did a quick search and appears that arkansas has the fourth highest procedure because i'm right in the country based on recent statistics we talked about there a little bit of our last meeting. And programming of course is a big part of their and so i've heard you mention a few things in terms of mental health and substance abuse but can you tell me specifically which criminal genic needs your programs address. Yeah. Yeah. My mom it. When you state the criminal genetic needs. And we're talking about residential psy. And I apologize because when you based on doctor bread and into her talking about the criminal genic needs I know she said there were seven as I stated basic map facilitators are the program they look at the year beneath and end up look at the programming as a whole when you talk about when when we talk about suffering abuse in mel health issues and things are bett nature education up. I would say just based on a program that we all for at the at above all the criminal from the genic knees that she identified. I think we are address all of them because the thing about it is when she looked at the evidence program of approvals the biggest issue the biggest bear you was affected the number we went back and we looked at some of the things that the programs were doing the program when they started out they were evidence based because the material that we wish was using was identified as being an evidence base and what master the addition to it they added I guess based on the fact in order to make the course longer the air is some additional material to them the programs and we went and took better additional material out we looked at the classroom size just based on the facility and the make up other facility in order for a claim a program to be evidence based in here to have tea and or toyota was the maximum number of up in mays that could be in the program but just based on the spacing in the size in in the private not being set up for programming we went back and we could back on our numbers as four years toyota fitting some were twenty five and so based on that that prevented their program from being evidence based and so I think most of our programs that we offer are evidence based to a certain point but when you when you say that twenty five is too many but then you have two hundred m mates they'd need the program then that means that you're gonna need more staff if you don't have the staff then you want to do a disservice to you in may population to the ones that actually need it and so when I look at the programs in what we've been doing over the years gs you can you can ever anything can be improved but for the most part they're getting information they're getting the resources and as for as the within abism. Based on our classes in in programs that we alpha i'm say to get makers are too faulty it has to be up to that person to take advantage of what we're being what they're being alfered yeah and I appreciate that thank you deputy director but I you know my get my question is what specific criminal genetic factors are your programs addressing. Okay okay. You get your anti social thinking and self-control you get your this in one of our programs which is one of our biggest program which is your think legacy you got your card with cognitive behavior therapy cbt you get your. Uh social anti social personality enter social cognition and anti social associates we do the employment education the recreation substance abused is functional family things of that nature so a lot of it is commonly skills. And we actually set staff to training at the national institutional corrections in order to be able to train our staff to be able to deliver a lot of these programs because it first you had wanted to they could actually deliver the programming part of it and we had to send them to the national institution correction but now we have a numerous day of being trained to do that a t four c training and work doing class is now to make sure all our program instead on the treatment sad in the middle hills that are actually getting those are that training is where okay so I heard you say a couple of things in your answer one it sounded like that you said the only wine or two were trained in I guess administering these programs but now that you're now you're sending several people to be trained is that correct is that correct no sir basically in order to be able to deliver the certain the program the t four sea training you have to be ahead you have to have the training you have to be and went to the class and the national installed correction was the only one that would provide the claims so we sent five people to actually go to the nascy training they were trying and so now they can train everybody within a department okay when did you send them think they will slash you it was last year before they wanted to so prior to last year is that fair to say that no one had been trained to administer these programs not the t four fee training they can for a change. Okay what about the other ones some of the other ones didn't require it when we talk when we talked about all our programs being evidenced base and we talked to a doctor bread we looked at it based on the fact that it's just like going to college it's going to be you won't have your court classes and you're going to have you electives so so the program that we're offering we're looking at being core it means that those are the things that are they have to have like you are you serves self and use we abilitation services you're as VP your south thing the bed natured like the other program that we offer which is like a lifers veterans program in summer. College courses those are looked at it being electives and so right now we've been instructed not to add any more programs because we will look at the ones that we have and we didn't want to continue to add programs that were not going to be considered as a court class something that they were required to have just based on the name to space that we have so when you talk about evidence based I mean it I think I heard you in the first answer to my first question I think I heard you say that our programs were not evidence based is that correct no and recall saying they were not I said they were a said that based on doctor brandon's assessment of our programs she stated that if you added any additional material then it made it a not evidence based we remove that material all the recommendations that she up in her assessment told us that that made that program no longer evidence base we went back and we removed those things to it only when did that happen. Why she actually did the assessment she did on assessment owners a serious program I want to say in twenty twenty two twenty twenty three and we went back and that we looked at the recommendations that she made and we made the adjustments to our programs at the only barrier that we had was meeting those are requirements of recommendation was the classroom sass where she said it had to be ten people in order for the program to be considered evidence based so it sounds like you guys made some changes in order to have the programs considered evidence based which means prior to making those changes the programs would not have been evidence based as that part of say well it's fair to say that up based on the program programming that we were offering we were under the pressure that all our programs with evidence based just based on the assessment that had been done before doctor bread and said that they weren't so once she came up with the she did her assessment and told us that they were they were not then we start made making the changes. Gotcha okay so in terms of qualifications but the people that oversee these programs and specifically regarding the anti social cognitions and behaviors where the qualification spore the people who administer those programs. Some some of those are people however degrees bachelor degrees a social greeze sam do night somehow a security background and they but actually transfer they went from security to programs but yet and steel once they're actually a facilitating the program to give them a time frame in order to get their training in the times they don't facilitate the the classes either certain parts of the training they they don't know the the program and they don't facilitate if they had had been t foresee trained occurs to let me because a little clear. So what are the qualifications not asking what they actually have but what are the qualifications that you require to oversee programs charged with changing antennas so show cognitions and behaviors. Will you talk about the job duties or the education is there what you said to qualifications that you require to oversee those programs they have to be able to facilitate they have to be able to deliver the information and they have to have a some prior experience in the facilitation of a class something of that nature. And then you look at the training that takes representative i'm so there's no representative if you don't mind can we can we wrap it up with one final question so we can move on to some other questions that are in the key i'm sorry no I understand that so you know with regard to this these qualifications I mean I guess my my ultimately my question is does the current staff that you have that are instructing these programs do they meet those qualifications and if they don't which is fine and I mean i'm just asking you for the truth here if they don't what steps are you taking to remedy that. I'll stay off go through training yearly and so just based on their job duties in their assignment there so classes in training that they have to take yearly and some they come into the program a start doing a or either start teaching the program they hadn't really just facilitated before and so they go to the clay as trained the trainer so they can be able to facilitate better and so uh we are make sure that they get training and like that they're going to training now some additional training. Okay all right thank you representative we we can come back but keep in mind we do have a few more people yet to test a fire and again as I stated on the outset of prefer not to be here for another two hours but I think I not pointed that you are we're all guilty of it so far that the vast questions so thank you for those questions but I hope that this is going to be concise into the point it short a promise i'm really interested in mental health and I know the scott and I have talked in understanding that a lot of people coming in to prison probably have unresolved child who trauma and so that's why they act out with the drugs alcohol crime all of that do you provide trauma therapy for those prisoners that have had child who trauma. Yes I think there's a compiling and I meant that those well let me correct myself now based on my administration said no we do not and then my second question is do you have a percentage of or an estimate of how many the prisoners actually attend therapy not couldn't give you a number okay just just a follow up on that and make sure I heard correctly you said we don't provide any sort of trauma care it was that was that what I heard correctly okay I think let me let me clarify up my mill health administrative who's been working in their position for a while mishama would be able to sheet and she's she's following you at the table so what we can get her will ask her that when she gets here thank you thank you I think the final question unless represent gazeway needs to follow up we will end with secretary wallace thank you mister thank you mister chairman thank you miss call clear for being here I had one question you talked a lot about lacking on space for programming know if there has ever been an assessment done of the physical plant to determine what our needs are as far as programming space just department was not department why I don't think I know but ah add dine went to a lot of the facilities just to look at the space and because when we got ready to do I think legacy we were holding the classes in the bears and so I know that it is class room setting works better and so we got with the school and ask the school could we use some of their class rules while they were not given the number so we secure classroom space for their. And some of the units but then again not all of the units and with my service program myself and abuse a substant use reabilitation services they actually hold their programs in the barricks and they have just a little smile area would be called the day room in order for the them to facilitate the claim so when we look at the space wise and and looking at all that areas to actually do some more programming is very limited and so assessment about the facilities would be great ok thank you ma'am thank you sir thank you and I just want to follow up when you said that when the school is not using that space and it which point is that like in the evening in the evenings yes and then we are hold some classes laid on like five and then they don't use it on friday discuss there's no school so we get there's no school on fridays in the assume also in the summer there's no schools it's not school in summer yes so we have access to those classrooms okay okay so we're not providing schooling in the summer even though we have inmates you're round now okay thank you represent gas way i'll give you the final since I catch you off and apologize for that but we are sort of needer to move on but represent a gas way you recognized thank you mister share will I have a lot of other questions and obviously we don't have the time to take him all up here today so i'll just end up this statement that I appreciate all the work it's being done to improve the programming it does appear that a strides are being made to improve things from how they've been but I will survey looks like there's still a lot of work left to be done and anyway that we can be helpful in the legislature we want to do that but i'll just end was saying that peers that there's still a lot of work left to do thank you representative I think we're gonna move on to mishamer at this point. Thank you director should you be in here in the same or if that's not the crime correct principation of your neighbor please correct me thank you he would recognize yourself for the record and then you can give remarks at again II will try to remind everyone including myself that we could spin hours and days in this room um but I know that you all have jobs to do is as a lot of us do as well so just try to be mindful of the time and also in mind for what the questions in the mountain it takes you recognized my name is emma hamer and i'm the rehabilitation director at the arkansas department of correction thank you in your you recognize to give remarks or take questions letters to questions represent gas way you said you had a lot of questions i'll start with you and that we can move from there. Yeah. Okay thank you mister chairman I didn't know I was going to get another opportunity but I appreciate it so I one of the questions that I had was with regard to data being collected by programming staff are you guys collecting data on the programs that you'd mister I missed the last part if you could repeat that lights part. That's it are you guys collecting data on the programs that you administer not at this time because the programs actually changed into self-helped classes and that was due to staffing issues so at this time there was not been collected. Okay so there's no data being collected and you need the programs that you guys are administering you know quite honestly I found that low concerning and I hope that you guys would consider some data collection efforts so that we can truly assess whether these programs are effective or not are you guys currently doing assessment to the program programming. Yes i'll be doing assessments of the programming. Correct yes we are especially since doctor breton's report made us aware that a lot of the programs are not a evidence based their things we're looking at at this time or making those changes because we are a concerned as well that we are not according to the report by doctor barrett and we are not providing the best care. And the best services so we are very are interested in darin making those changes to ensure that we are offering a best practice is an evidence based services to our clients that we serve okay so when the programs have been assessed as their report that follows yes our the report that was given started out I think it was in initially. With the service program or used to be the substance abused treatment program or we were made aware that that program was perceived to have a several things wrong that were not according to evidence based practices the entire program was scrapped and. A new program was initiated and started called sirs to address the issues of inmates with substance abuse treatment issues. Okay and so sounds like the substance to be as program. Has been assessed and there's a report with regard to that are there reports for the regard to the other programming that you have and for the other programs we were informed that the self-health classes did not meet the guidelines for being evidence based and at this time we are working to make changes there is wail a lot of them were based on time as far as the length of the program. We have a come up with a new program for anger management there's now twelve weeks to meet. The criteria are being are evidence based now there are other things that were mentioned there were out of our control such airs are the constraints of placement they can stright serve security because strights of having enough staff to do to do the program so there are other things to consider is wheel but yes she is correct with their sale classes those do not meet the criteria of being evidence based so we are looking at that as we speak as to real looking at all the programs that we offer such as angry management victims of domestic violence stress management parenting communication scales thinking areas and substance abuse education now following her report anger management we redeed that one is twelve weeks victims of domestic violence at eight is eight weeks so it falls short of what is request it to be considered evidence based straight as a management six weeks it is not in compliance parenting six weeks not in complies communication skills eight weeks not in complies thinking errors six weeks not in compliant substance abuse education is eight weeks is also not in compliance so those things we are looking at. Yeah. Okay thank you that's very helpful with with respect to the reports that exist could someone with the department maybe you or someone else who has access to those could those be provided to our committee. Yes sir thank you if you're if you'll send them through miss hamp and then she can pass it to the members of the committee that'd be helpful before we move on i'm gonna ask I know senator tucker has questions but anyone else want to be in the queue for questions before I turn it over to him senator tucker what not at all i'll have you right after senator thank you thank you just have one question it's it's the same question as deputy director cole closure have accident before and it's a broad question but I know your specifically overmental health for the prison system and so my my question is just. If you get the resources that we need for mental health treatment in the prison what what percent of that and your judgment are are we providing to address the mental health needs of the of the prisoners in the correction system. I think they would be very small unfortunately and a lot of that would have to do with a staffing is a main issue in and i'll give you an example we'll just take and take an takers where everything starts is that foundation that everything else will build on as far as that assessment tool in mental health and take assistance present time we have two individuals employed too for the entire department that includes a supervisor and one masters a level of social worker that is it and they not only serve intake they also serve population how are they going to do that they can yet but we try and we are failing and I accept that and I am open to a systems because i've been your long time and I care about what I do this may so I don't take it lightly so I recognize the deficits but i'm also open to making changes so whatever anybody can offer we are open so whatever it says since you can gear we will take I hope we get yourself to provide the base service I hope we get to some more some more resources for that thank you for your honest and your answer yes ma'am yes like over that thanks for your honesty um mister recognized at his thing work here you got it but my first term on this appreciate what you young told us today and one thing I guess is going to be real quick. It's the app and the resources one may problems to all of this staff absolutely I thought about there then what i've heard old but all this conversation we pay ended a day start when getting quite bad people happen in the resources to pay those people yes and I bet you we can pass and data on all over time we're people haven't work over time and working at but absolutely trying to get this down in the can do it without adequate staff and a fine absolute okay now based. Thank you sir miss wallace did you have a question of comment just to comment mr chair that may I appreciate you coming and testifying today it's it's very informative and helpful and I will say that I think the mental health staff in component has been a problem where i'll know about and have known about it for a long time and so one of the things that we did it's been trying three years ago now we did a pilot project at east arkansas which was one of the worst places to hire mental health staff I think they had. Nine or ten full time equivalent positions there and at the moment that we entered into this contractual relationship with our medical provider at the time there was one position that was filled so we kind of did that on a pilot basis I think they immediately had great progress at hiring mental health staff and so one of the things that we looked at doing and the board will hopefully vote on the soon is rolling up the middle health staff in component into our medical contract so that we can have across the board better services for our offender population it's already covered on the community correction side of the house for the medical contract but it never has been rolled up on the correction side so I just wanted to let you all know that that is something we've been aware of for you know at least a few years now it's just in increasingly gotten worse I think is the private sector there you know their ability to pay staff better has gotten better and ours is just kind of remained the same so that was only common I wanted to make so choose for us mr minus thank you for joining us today so you have your hand up so it'll be you and then reps gas way I think has a follow up and then will end with him so mister magness you're recognized yeah just can you hear me we can okay miss was explained that they're pretty good on the took the hand down for her second but that's been our our issue the pay rate under the government. Uh gave us a lot of challenge to belong our mental health in our program out of program over it east arkansas proven very well so I feel like the borders very very supporter of transmovered into our medical contract because mental health is a huge part of us some of these uh it might issues so I hope that in change blamed it well we've known it for a while we just will get to the proper funding appropriate hail in with that's going into the uh private field and thank you for being help router gas way. Residential chairman yep sorry about that so my question is really a follow up on senator techer's question that with regard to the programming that we have I think one of the important parts one of the important aspects that you have to address is making sure that the bright people get in the right programs and so is there any type of assessment that's being used to determine which inmates need to be in which particular programs any particular type of assessment tool yes sir in the uh take process inmates go through a and a ray of a things were an intake and the antique screening process is at watch it all river unit and even tales of an initial medical evaluation on the first day on the second day it makes our scene by mental health staff and then it is determined if there was in mate will be referred to problems and claires is based on the social history that we are used to obtain information and in it process there is a vocational technical referral to their mark to particular programs in that area if there are psychiatric needs the mental health needs are determining doing the process the immediately variated for being suicidal or it was to others he's also evaluated for history of mental health treatment and if there is current need for mental health treatment services if it is determined at their time that the person is a need of current medical services he is referred to the sake high interest and crisis situation in make to able to be seen by the psychiatrist on the same day. In meets are also followed by mental health staff on a month of basis once they are playstone psychotropic medications any of their determined to be so aside or then we also hear problem calls for that but long story short there is a social history that addresses each area of that person's life well it is mental health of occasional education questions about their background drug history sexual issues and there's also a prevaluation and that's the prison restaurants where the president ripped elimination at it uses certain standard as criteria to determine if the inmate is at risk of either being a victim or a paper a perpetrator of sexual abuse. Well and cars are ready then is also in it and a component that looks at the person's subsidies treatment and we address those issues and they are referred to programs or classes based on that information as well and it's also built in two the r system is built into the system it's automatic referral based on the information that is together and the air from the end made this either given a low medium a high referral to programs or classes based on the information that is collected on that social history that is done on each in the bedroom as they come through the antique prices okay thank you very much appreciate that alright thank you miss president testimony thank you for speaking to freely with us today as as as everyone and then it's testifying to appreciate the honesty all right move and run along trying to keep us on track mr self jeer itself if you would sit there at the table and reduce yourself for the record and if you have any opening statements remarks you'd like to make or we can jump into questions sure jury self em area manager for a division of community to correction overseas reinjuries transitional living facilities I can give a have you of the progress so a reach of program is a six month residential program the facilities are owned and operated by qualified vendors and we select state in mates to participate in that programming five months five months of that is residential we address employment skills substance use processing leisure activities any social cognitions and we're trying to hit on mental health as well the last thirty days is a handshake to the community. By the time you leave the program you're living in your house your apartment travel in your car your legal and licensed. All your documentations there nothing's hanging over your head and hopefully we put you out as a tax banking citizen it's the same program that mister bell touched on and she last meeting thank you and I know that saturday as a question so we'll just jump run into questions the members keep mine if you have a question let me know thank you mister chair thank you myself for being here for the work that you do I really kind of want to follow up on a few questions that mister bell raised at our meeting last month and one is that kind of the screening prices i'm the eligibility criteria to go to a reintro facility like the one that he has are those eligibility criteria is as department policies at state law do you know some of some of its policy some of it is the statue itself we only could screen out to eighteen months before their transfer eligibility so anything beyond that the statue would prevent but class one on a job for sixty days those are other departmental godlines for the screening process okay I was having a conversation with mister bell after after the meeting and and he said that if if it was lower from six months to five months that the number of eligible folks would go away up can you help me understand that absolutely so i'm no attorney by any means so without going down those roads ten twenty nine offenses require pro hearings and victim input those occurred six months prior to the transfer eligibility day I can't take it an offender with a ten twenty nine offense out before that hearing so there is no early release component for any of the person convicted of a ten twenty nine index so if the program length were six months six months and the offender is releases and determined until six months part of that date by the time pro was granted for transfers approved he doesn't have enough time to complete our program. If our program were shorter we could pick up police persons that the board is already determined are appropriate to be released in prison and we'll be sent on a math of program okay. That's that's interesting and and shortening the program from six months to five or five and a half for some such thing is that something that the the department can do on its own or do you need to legislate act one forty six twenty fifteen one that has it said it's six months. Okay what i'd love to do and I mean that's one of the purposes of this committee is this tas forces we need to we need to sit down sometime and and just go through the eligibility criteria and i'm i'm very happy to do that with you and figure out which ones are legislative based on which ones are not and and how we can improve those in order to enhance our numbers for for the people who are eligible if that's that if that's okay by you i'm still going i've got you off somewhere I know you will allow you well and this is something that I really wanted air stepping director call closure but she'd been there long enough that I decided not to it applies it and it's kind of falling upon the conversation that mister mcclain was happened with the right at the end it applies to her but also to to to you I think I think our goal really ought to be to have some program for everybody because you know and and it applies to her for various programs for people that are within the system but for people who are getting out and it's like okay you don't meet this criteria you just don't go to a program at all and so the result is you just get turned loose on the street without any programming at all and so II want to know you know how we how we can get to that point it is unique i'm on the pearl side but i'm dealing with stadium mates and I take them out of the correctional facilities and I don't I don't disagree sir we have offenders that are clear candidates for the rancher program we take them to the program they function well we have others that just do to their fance they have to wait on the statutory requirement of that hearing and sadly when they don't have enough time to complete my program they don't come they could benefit from these programs I don't disagree with you what she's put that on our meeting in general only get together try try to figure out a solution. So another question that mister bell raises that you know when you get out you can't live with another felon and in his his thought was if you're getting out of a reinjury program it would be beneficial to have a roommate so as kind of a support and also to split rent with. Is that a policy department policy reset a state law it's allowable now throughout or transitionalizing policy we call it subsequent any license facility can reach out to us with an approved address a location that they are responsible for and is that continuation of care so they're still a requirement of five hours a programming per week and these are pearlies they've graduated the programs at this point the facility identified them as accountability partners they get along together they hold each other accountable and it's an appropriate living space we have a lease agreement we provide to the facility to make sure everyone's taken a everyone is not taking an advantage of a good example to be a lawn more something that no one would ever consider in this room but when you're coming out of facility you don't have the funds to go about law mower but you have to move the grass at your rental property so if you want to run out of these persons these graduates you want them to live together our money the landlord of mother grass so that we don't have that burden on top of them yet another reason another barry the yard looks horrible they're not doing well and as long as everyone agrees we'll let them stay there and that's allowable now and it's in our policy has been for quite some time okay can I go and back to the screening I mean i'm just curious because it seems that we release a lot of people from prison and as mister bell was. Testifying to we've had reentry facilities close and his his has not even at capacity so if we if we resolve some of these eligibility issues you think that the numbers the demand for those does better go up would exceed the funding of the yeah okay as I met with mister bell following your task force meeting we went over some of our screening process with him and uh not not to bring that entered to the folder day but it was we screen now offenders and we approved too just going down that just their primary offences and while they're in prison and institutional record so there wasn't a wasn't a large group of persons that we were missing how do you get your list I mean what your list of nine for example that they are just sending on any particular day how does that get generated every single day I get a list of more finder management system a research and planning team since it to us and it's every offender in the state of our consolidate adc unit is class one and they could be one a one b or one c one day the class one has no more than sixteen months to the transfer eligibility eligibility date and no less than six now level three and four sex fingers work released pathway to freedom those offenders are automatically excluded from that list then we further refinance depending on her name we removed their own and from that with this work release offenders we removed from it and we we end up with a workable number why do you remove three owners and work release finners we would be taking the same I would have their program overnight just to be blunt about it each one there wouldn't be a three on on program more work release if I was able to take those offenders same reason you explore pathway to freedom folks yes and we're doing more harm than good the offender may be in work release and wants to come to bring into he may be in pathway to freedom and wants to come to reinjury but if he's halfway through his program and I take him and then I give a duplicate form of a program that's that's not of best practice it's not evidence based i'm i'm doing more harm than good at that point. Okay. Uhm this one more question now that i'll wrap up and this is going to be beyond the scope of your authority I understand but but you know more about it in that day and I so II just want to visit about it while you're there but i'm i'm thinking about someone who's entire sentence is going to be six months maybe and just the reality of the **** our system in arkansas today they're going to spend that entire time and counting jail which does nobody any good and i'm wondering you know what you're saying I know we would have to you know jump through some hoops to make this possible but i'm just my curious for your opinion what if we just send somebody straight from accounting jail to a reentry facility of the if we think they're if there are six to sixteen months that's their entire sense i'm not opposed to it sir a lot of what we blame from our screening process as their institutional behavior I don't have fences I don't have security staff I don't have holding sales and so if it was a provider later and I could see his last incarceration period I can see how you conduct himself in a program environment how I conduct himself in a prince of prison environment I would be willing to make a better decision on hamburgs of someone that's the first time down and that's our entire senate II would know how he's going to conduct himself and i'm not a i'm not a jeannie mount reader for delaware I couldn't tell you how anyone's going to truly conduct themselves but we can look at those indicators okay thank you good prediction. So I have a quick question in the multi ryan cooper demention three or nine program you would I think your words were you would rob that overnight so talk to me about three or nine program what it would exactly use the three o nine program I don't oversee the program but I understand i'm just have some knowledge of an assumative eights that reside in county joes to assist with daily activities and could be landscape it could be kitchen facility maintenance repair operations car washing they reside within the county jails that freeze up a state bad and it's a resource that i'm sure a lot of jails will depend on although i've never spoken directly to a county share about their own program before then so yeah might have followed a question on that but will go to mr. Thank you mister chair thank you for yourself you would say that the ones that were ten twenty nine could not be screened with less than six months left if you if you're lowered the amount of fab because of the act that that get made them a discretionary transfer is that right is it okay what I guess my question is what percentage of the overall population ballpark would be ten twenty nine because if I understood your test money correctly if we lower that amount we can fill up the reintry programs i'm just curious what percentages is that would actually fall under ten twenty I couldn't give you a ball park on that I can't say though it it's more than just the ten twenty ninth of the falls and that same group are probably letters that come down with six months our persons that have to prohearings and a provider later becomes discretionary regardless of the of their fence and so all of those if they're hearing their pro hearing is set for victim and put six months to their tee day. Then have in our program shorter lets me have them after their the hearing and would then let me take on so out while I can't give you the answer of how many or gentlemen is it would open the door to almost every proly release in the department okay so it's not just the ten twenty nine program is there other factors that would go into it that would yes and ten twenty ninth or the murder want that the balance right terroristic act aggressive offences battery one uh domestic one but it doesn't include all the description transfers but it does include the the days yes thank you I think mister share thing or so and we do have those offenders that have never got a dismantle in ten years while they've been incarcerated and they've had a model institutional record it still doesn't change the events and where we're at when it gets time for them to go okay mr claim thank you mister chair mr self one of the questions of course you're aware of the backup that we have in the prison system with those trying to get out due to lack of transitional housing and we've got a lot of those all over the place and have numbers those numbers are high when you look at twenty five to fifty and I don't know how many around the state in different facilities that are waiting to go to a transitional due to the backer what do we do when in these are licensed transition houses what are we doing to try to sure that up are we looking for other places and can we and I had no this is probably policy can we if we've got a reputable place transition place for these men or women to parole two can we in the situation is like this look too those for help to release a lot of these base that we have there are field and yet they can't go anywhere can we do that yes I don't have the funding available to increase the number of license. Funded transitional living beds but we are looking yet and have licensed nondashvendor transitional options john three sixteen would be one of those options usually the non vendor facilities have a unique entrance rules assessments interviews that they want to do and linking them to the the prison world is not an easy bank we being able to set up interviews at each individual unit for each and individual facility so that this offender can say why would like to go to a non vendor house that's it that's a unique challenge but we have increased our number of non license houses we have a public here next monday for another what about the kim free houses and I was told that farther they could parole from prison to their zeck not the case a camper is one of those terms that we we should really define as a group kim free living as always been in our opinion associated post treatment you go through a license treatment provider for your dicks and your recovery and as you move out of those impatience you would go to kim for letting environment okay in in that situation we don't regulate those but also don't know why anyone would come from traditional carceration and ask to go to a step down treatment house we're similarly they may have that need but they're also not in the inactive addiction okay great response thank you mr chairman and this is really going toward senator techers comment earlier about what happens with those shorter sentences of folks that don't ever get out of county jail and it's relevant to miss yourself as well I wanted to mention something that you all might think about is haven't she refigured here from palace he county he has a reentry program that he puts forth in the county jails and I don't have all in his county jail and that how the specifics but uh mister stelle for missed call pleasure and I had had met with him a couple of different times on trying to figure out a way to. You laws his rental programming to do a prisoner swap if you will so those folks that are paroling out to last year county he would bring us folks that were trying to get into the counties and then we would send some folks to him so that they could have more targeted reinjury services it's a little more secure so maybe not someone that's particularly perfect for the type of retrieve facilities that we have outside of the walls but still would fit their criteria misters may be able to speak a little bit more to kind of logistics on that just to level i'd have to go back and look at all the their program specifics but last week spoke to them they would have one that was on the waiting list to come to the department of corrections we would take one we would send them people getting close to release it allows us to free up that bad and get them out there program addressed on work so suspicious recovery and they had several community partners to really address that work program on the way out with their education combonent they've had several good graduations with great great return groups they have been doing it long enough for any meaningful residential some data but it's the number of legacy persons in the room coming back and supporting the group of spears as amazing. And that's a litter up from to address a lot of our problems so I have to command the sheriff on that. Mister meiner said see your hand raised. Yes it is the board correction various important sheriff hagans's program and would you know have traded facilitate anyways pilot program I think what he should know and is commendable and and wish we had more war that throughout the system and you know you do what they're explaining he has been in makes waiting on a bad incorrection we distrade him for somebody that he can justify putting in an a reintro problem and it's a he's doing well but the board is very supportive of that part of problem as well as you recognize my seat made over here is just told me that lawrence county has something similar so there are some things that are out there in the county jails just a since we're talking about residential summary entering and everything here or so what would you mind shooting medium email at some point before our next meeting miss wallace for mister cooper highlighting who that is and related to sheriff against here in plastic county and they could be beneficial to get them to the test of testify service by members not seen anyone else that wants to be recognized I think we've had some good discussion I think that the sort probably continue to other meetings I appreciate everyone that's been here to test fire was there anybody else that needed to say anything that was here that they didn't say at the end of the time earlier from the department I see you're all just so eager over there to to get out of here so with the thank you for your time your attention the discussion I think it was helpful think it was enlightening today look forward to our next meeting which will be what date is that hang on one second should be march eleventh but we will send out an email thank you for all those who join by zoom. And look forward to the next meeting with that make sure there's nothing else we need to