Public Health, Welfare and Labor Committee - Senate and House

Share call basbard and the ene cheese and the share of environment and the director of de q. The more incommittee lauren baller chief estaft energy environment you recognize to present all right thank you so this morning we have brought before you awful review four business plans for the four use tire programs that were created out of changes that were made in acceptance thirteen of twenty twenty three. That act consolidated the eleven tire programs into four new use tire programs it outlined a process for them to get organized. To establish their new business plans that would be used for sitting a reimbursement rate for reimbursements they would receive through our department we received those plans reviewed them and approved them as do you and then in january we took them to the political troll and ecology commission for their review and approval which they did january twenty sixth and so we are right for we're now bringing we were to bring in the legislative council and we're asked to come here for yourself you as well or to start here for yours review and asking for. A approval of business plan reimbursement rates for some tire program number one which is the northwest part of the state has a two dollars and eighty two cent reimbursement rate per tire now used our program number two in northeast as a two eighty six per tire reimbursement rate number three in southwest is to eighty and number four is in south east is a two dollar nanny reimbursement rate so we are bringing that in requesting approval or review about a committee so that we can move forward with megan these rate changes the way act seven thirteen establish it was that no increases and rates would be put into effect until it was approved by the polish control and ecology commission and by alc so we have these newly formed districts are still receiving in some cases a lower rate they're passed previously established rate in their past iteration before they consolidated so it's important that they move forward and can start to receive reimbursement at a higher rate and that's all I have a. For a presentation. Members are being reminded that there's a sanip sheet and it's been out if you're coming in late and you want to sign up to speak that sanip sheeters currently out where the gentleman signed right there are there any questions right now for the from the committee. Yeah. Senator love you recommend thank you mister chair so i'm looking at these rates in them. Just now kind of getting this in front of me so based on the rates there are based on the number of tires I guess that we receive last year in the right that are provided are we going to be able to cover you all have a fund in the coverage or window. Or are we going to be kind of like plug in this program as we go as we've done in the past. So thank you for that question as a great question because I think um that's certainly others are going to raise out I think some others that may want to share will share perspectives on that to the best of our ability we try to anticipate looking at past rates you know monthly and quarterly number of process tires and looked at it for right now at these rates that we are proposing for approval and recommending for approval we. We feel like there is adequate funding in the program to cover should be through the inter this year and hopefully we had a good quarter the most recent quarter that we made payments on gave us an additional a little bit a cushion we believed it going into the first quarter of twenty five that we feel cut and we feel if companies we can about that however it really depends on a number of factors both on the revenue sat and on the processing side and how many tires they are able to work through so we did reference in our letter that we sent to the political control and ecology commission our estimate of getting to the inter this year into the first part of twenty five hopefully more if we continued to have we've had strong revenues command from when removal fees that continues we think it'll go longer but we did reference there is the prorata language in the statute that if we ever do far below and as you reference that's happened in the past we've been here to talk about that before so we we think we have a window of time that we are going to be able to continue to operate or continue to to make full reimbursement on payments we don't know how long that alas but we think for right now the program is in pretty good shape and we anticipate we understand there may need to be more conversations heading into next session. Yeah. The. Thank you mischief i'll get back and for house and questions thank you representing fortner. Thank you mister chairman is this radio increase included or somehow applied to what the consumer will pay or does pay. So there is a statutory three dollar rim removal fee this this change will not impact as long as that's in statute the three dollars it's charged when you have tires removed when you get a purchase new tires that will stay the same at all this will not affect that okay thank you thank you mister chairman. Reversing gazalist you recognize for a question that you are sure have more of the statement that I think might can help clear for some of this the chair will allow. So I was involved and running this bill in the twenty three session and we know at the time that there wasn't enough money in this program to continue with the way the way it's going I think what he saying is you know we there's enough there to run this through twenty twenty five we're gonna we know we're going to have to go back to look at this look at other other options of how to deal with his way tire issue. The it's not gonna sustain itself long term that the way it is jack to your question that the remember of oval fees has not changed what what is happened as eighty q is taking less of a percentage than than what they had been so they're putting more money into the actual processing of the tires couple of factors that will make a difference on on how long this will ask if if it's sustained through twenty twenty five to we can deal with it and accession is there are from what I understand a lot of tires out there in storage and if these processing facilities start processing those store tires and they they're they increase the number of tires that they're processing this money will run out much faster. So so that's why I say there's a bigger issue out there that there's more tires that need to be processed that we can't do with with the funding that's currently there one option we may need to look at which was brought up in last session was to private as it originally in this bill the senate repayton and I ran there wasn't increase in the rim removal fee that they didn't get passed we had to pull that out to get this bill passed what it is we're trying to reduce them administrative costs and things like that with this. But that's that's just kind of what we're looking at it's it's a problem we know we're going to have to deal with in the future we knew that when we ran this bill in twenty twenty three and I don't think anybody's. Anybody argues that pointing some. The. Hope that helps did I cover everything to make a suggestion well II appreciate you sharing that and also mentioning. As I should have mentioned that in response to the previous question about you know our are planning an assessment what's going on dq has understand we can take some administrative costs and for some different programmatic costs we are continuing to do that but there is a portion of that that we are for going now is representing his hour said to try to help sustain the program and and help make it more sustainable going forward but II think you hit on that very well and appreciate those comments. Center king you recognize your question. Thank you mister chair so you know i've been. This has been going on for twenty years so i've been business mayors and county judges and about back home about the sustainability of the program and in just seemed like every session we don't come up with a real solution what is the cost projections looking out like two five years of what you're going to be sure or what it would take to take care of this problem I know that's a hard target but I mean is it two million dollars it's a four million six million per year I mean I know it would go up is everything cost of work but but what are you gonna be sure what you need what it's just a guess. And you could get that later if you need to I think has something we would like to take a star bet and get it to you later the only real projection we had done so the only the one that we have focused on most recently is looking at the trans for the most recent quarters to see how long we think they the next. You know several quarters it would be if we do this rate but we can look at that long term you're correct though that there has been. Chant there have been challenges because of increase operation cars fuel for them is the districts go to do you pick up and other maintenance and other things are occurring it's just cast to do in business overall seems to have increased and that's part of why for the rates that we have today we wanted to. Emphasis that we understand from the districts that they are really feeling the patch from the currently approved rate the difference between that and this one and feel like for their continued operation they have they have assessed and we agree that they need to receive a higher rate like this but certainly we can work on that and get a better and work towards a better estimate yeah it I mean some of the other things we keep hearing over the years like I said for was I don't know eighteen years is been you know the honest people out there collecting it the dishonest people or not there's no enforcement and so there's a lot of you know complex issues so the only thing I see years right right now in the political environment you know. Is the people don't want to belt forward or something because they're going to get hit with a postcard that says oh my gosh you raised in by process tires or whatever I mean I understand is the best solution I see right now is to take out of our general budget and like this next budget session is just to take a portion of. In upper example the sales tax off of new vehicles or something like that and take a portion of that that you have a dedicated revenue stream that you know what you're going to work with but to do that or even propose that we'd have to have that are i'd have to have that figure to throw that out because that's the only solution. I see because I can say it every two years it's just something and we don't find the money in the budget we should find the money and have a revenue stream. Relatable to vehicles or something that makes sense is what not talk to counties about that so if you could get that bigger i'd appreciate it. Senator hammer did you have a question. You recognize your question thank you mister on the private privatisation do you have an idea of what that would look like and or could you edge catus as far as what the model might be and the caution might be affiliated with that are you at that point where you can. Senator app I appreciate that question at this point we really don't have a heat information that would be helpful and that direction we know some of the conversations that happen the previous session in anticipate some more will occur we don't have a lot of detail on what that could look like or what costs would be as I said are in the recent months our focus has been primarily on the assessment of these plans and moving forward of what we can right now to make sure they get some more funding but we certainly are aware of an anticipate more conversations of that in the coming minds because we understand there are some folks interested in it but nobody has really presented us with anything that I feel well versed enough or confident enough to drive to share what it could look like absolutely any legislator getting involved will you individually as agency take the initiative to get that pull together and get ready to present if called upon to do so on a committee so we could at least be somewhat ahead of the game and so get to the general session and knowing what is going to call so we could digits that please. I think we certainly will continue those conversations and will be uh. Thing through that process will look like and try to be well versed to answer questions you may all may have thank you thank you sure. Are there any other questions from committee members. Seeing now and we do have someone that standard to speak in sir you have to forgive me your handwriting is as bad as mine you have a future in that issue should you want it gm I think it's the first time do you have some things you'd want to say you're welcome to come to the table and test for just when you get to the table if you can just identify yourself and then tell us who you're with. And then i'll recognize you to present. There you go now if you can say yeah jimmy heart and chairman of the one county george conway county my twenty fourth year. Ever would you guess when they're with you go ahead this are not locked recognize it's our director from west river valley side of waste main district mission just a spiro just if you can recognize in a state name yet just and sparrow the executive director of the west river valley solid waste district thank you go held you both recognized. Thank you so much for. Let me say a few words today. Will be back to history what what we've done in before we ban and where we're trying to go obviously and with proposal we've got from the vision environmental quality and I want to first acknowledge our director mister scorey shame. I appreciate so much obviously committing some finds that they didn't have to that I have to try to make this line work. Um. Public versus private we actually put a orio I think that's a word for it. I and we put this off our particular you took the one district was two dollars and eighty two cents i've got possible number two from the private. Just to help me argue that was laboratory. The. Yet liberty tire submitted a proposal that came in. As close to a proposal that the western valley solid waste district and the last mountain salary's district submitted a joint proposal to basically split. The one district north the south so when we were developing these business plans all four of the new districts submitted or put out a request for proposal in so we do have a very good estimate of what it would actually cost for a private company to come in and try to provide the same services that the sole waste district are going to provide. The. And will you look at this proposal for private various dispute we're actually with them and we look at our number and we look at the number that I mount most estate can be wet is two dollars fifty i'm planned for action within a quarter twenty five c cents I think i'm saying in this route we looked private proposal obviously less service. More money ever what you turn on is saying I mean we're so close on this side of making making it clear can I tell the history with us so I guess we're might be somewhat cursed in blessed and he has not do with me I got stuck with chairmanship not because I wounded because I guess i've been around too long twenty fifteen and we pretty much strip that operation down in restructured got rid of much folks and started over that's the best way on a describe it on member of the day I came in and for legislative audience and we had a problem and we've all got a fudiciary responsibility so we're going to start over to build a slying back to square one and we're where we are today I mean mother you only is obviously logistics you've got a look at legislation you keep taken hole you can't hold your way out of the sign you can't hold for whole towers outstate you can't afford to hold eleven or toy over thirteen tons of product another state and taking disposable third voice not costs if you know what we look at is obviously being able to process the stuff is closes what I call it cradle the grave you know that you choose your boss cost effective benefit of this whole thing I think what we proved in this sign with the and i'm acknowledged robin with boston mountain black god with him have money to take and do an r p and thank god they did they have to sigh up cope but what we come out of this sign is one clear clear objective the most cost effect the white do it to why we're doing it now to say this i'm not going to speak for the other districts everybody's got a different as I call it matter to the matter so guy. And logistics play a light into that but buying and I think that we're obviously not we're tasted to do is provide that service pretty much in every county which were this private proposal laboring on a bicycle file pickup points in that in counties and how do you know this if i've got spent talk not rig and clan to hold must of the the hope can you anywhere else to get rid of it. So one. The combination is whole thing this is this is a team effort and I hope we take it to her way this truly is a partnership to end state between private enterprise of what it stay here obviously is given the taxpayer's bargain solved most cost effective buying for the. That's what this is all about and I think what we've examined were somewhat I say that we're we're public anti but we do some things a little bit outside the box not over northwest arkansas and boston mountain they've actually got a private operators come in and i've got some of the public private operations not saying there's not a place for the private end of this saying but we're going to take and the case you say is the the the devils in the details and it all comes down the real sample i'm a dominal country boy stallers and sense what makes good economic sense what gears people the most buying for the book and the say this i'm not trying to be were were a little bit. Or after mistake were a little bit cautious because of the pro rata and all manta this the pro rata folks we can't rat check with prorata. You we keep function player or employees and player operations can't function we can't rat check weekend case. The people can't cash the work made of this our operations a little bit unique were somewhat we think a little bit of the curve. Because we bought three and a half million dollars actually proud of this gentleman here coming on boards are director. And were about six months of way and haven't had three and a half million dollars note fight off. But still yeah II kind of like this and the neighborhood talks about a number you put in your culture operations appreciate there's three or four things i've learned in my career in what erm is a waste hour off race not the appreciation that's a real cars okay the jail appreciate that's a real cost a crocher and ravel crash and operation that's a very brace for operation at the appreciation that he is a real cost it's not something usually well it appreciates out save the right year but I will get the running for fifteen or twenty so you get some economic advantage there don't work out of way three operations I just name because they are really turf hard dirty nasty jobs you know in our goal was this we're not interested in sock and a lot of money back to bank but rederesting a nose those people do those hot hot dirty nasty jobs when rested me and make it sure they'll focus properly compensated we run a good cost fish and operation now i'm on a shut up and seem like any questions here I am. Merge with any questions through the german at the table. Seeing man we appreciate your testimony today thank you for time. Two thank you gentlemen for come and thank you for your testimony II think there's full acknowledgment that there's work that needs to be done still as representative gonzalez stated and I just want to thank senator payton he's not here today but who did so much work on this as well with representative gonzalez so I know that they're going to continue to dig in on this so we really appreciate the testimony that you provide today thank you. Thank you at all so next on the agenda. Discussion on the intersteady proposal at center over. Thank you mister chair if the if you would like to come to the table and members I filed this interim study proposal and regarding a crypto mining digital asset mining you've got the exhibit d in front of you I think I just want to state as these gentlemen are coming to the table to me they are the experience on this issue because they're the ones that are on the ground dealing with what I would call a bad actor. And there is a a mine and my district and farther county and I want to state this publicly for a lot of folks at the time that legislation was passed during the session a lot of us and the legislature really did not have any idea about this industry about what it would per a what it would. What it would be like what it would be like as a neighbor in a community I understand there are some operations that are seamless and you'd never know that they are there but others like this one have become a real problem for the county a real problem for the citizens that live near it and I want to know more about this because at the time when we cast our votes on the legislation that passed we didn't I did not have all the information and really didn't know a what would happen and so this is my opportunity to file this interest said a proposal but to really understand the issue and all of its breath and depth and for our legislature to be educated on and I think there's no better people than they were sitting at the table and which are our fault in our county judge allen dartson are fought in a county attorney philip murphy and our faultner county administrator randy higgins who also by the way is a former justice of the peace for the district where this cripped him on is located so with that I really just want to turn it over to these three gentlemen and so that we have a good very thoughtful and detailed discussion about where we're at it also their recommendations going forward from a county perspective but also from a state perspective as well the last thing I would say is permits are a part of this operation in industries i've asked and caleb ozburn and energy and environment eighty q to also give us as a little bit of education and about the permitting process for the water usage for these minutes so with that turn it over to you all thank you guys here today they look forward to learning more about this topic you just want to state your names individually and then what you said your name whoever was talking about recognized to speak thank you i'm alan dads and I am the counter judge of falker killing. I am ready to higgins the fault recounting administrator. Until birthy on the fault your county attorney. Thank you all thank you senator oven I appreciate the reach out an opportunity or the imitation come here and speak on this. I mean I recognize our state legislature in this joint committee in particular I want to just thank you for your willingness to take this issue we don't report to have all the answers we will be glad to tell you. Uh maybe describe the landscape there in fault or county what we have done as a county in a few suggestions that you might consider so I just want to recognize count of the scenario here we thank you for giving us an opportunity to speak to you so thank you for that. The impact I don't know if any of you have been near one of these fully operating crypto minds but they are really noisy I underscribe them as a a general liner at idle on the tormark it's a very similar noise to that some people talk about a line should be higher but it's a really happy wine just really loud at least in some of these instance and that's what we've seen at at the one in our county it's very noisy we all three feel personally for a lady um and her children who live next to this facility literally with less than a hundred yards maybe less than a hundred feet from their swimming pool. In these things went up and running run twenty four seven they run all the time it's like many other data centers I myself worked in it for nearly a dozen years with a large global campaign located in arkansas. And for family within your data centers they run over term i'm not anti technology not even anti date of mining or crypto in any way but we do see a problem where some of our citizens are being severely impact in their personal lives. So I would also draw your attention to at least the use of water we know that that facility used quite a bit war I think it peaked at random six hundred thousand six hundred thousand gallons of water in. Animals we think there were some leaks with their cooling systems are open water evaporative cooling systems. That they use to push here across to help all the heat is generated I think these things use. I think this one was rumors here but it was rumored to have used around three quarters of million dollars of electricity in one month as generating a lot of. And I don't know that to be true that's here say they they do have a lot of cooling power with hundreds and hundreds of cooling fans. As far as what we've done in foreigner county with the help thankfully the help of the association of counties which helped. They facilitate maybe a uniform approach for counties to take individually we took that opportunity based on the deadline that you were the full legislature gave us in order to pass local legislation we did take that opportunity it was a little bit uncomfortable I know that our fill and randy will tell you we're not experts on noise and noise levels and the impact in and noise from a particular location. And and regulating that if you will end. The ambient noise out there. I mean I know every side is different every every site is different we are not experts not. You or maybe a police state of arkansas. To use it four weight and authority to establish norms and science that are defensible and we would suggest. There that is going to be much easier to defend. If it is a state norm that has the full weight authorities state of arkansas rather than allowing counties to establish their own levels. That may then be attacked by. Petitioners who are much more well funded or geared a. To fight a a legal battle if you will so think i'll just cut the insurers to do to both randy and fill for a second if you don't mind sooner thanks senator mister chair so I actually live about four miles from the location it's outside of green brian smoking a deal of bunnel there are a number of rural orange and families that live close by this particular facility mister I understand who lives next door to it in a you know modest home with a her child who has autism that have to listen to this twenty four hours a day and it in their home this this noise comes into their their house and so they're constantly happened to address that it's caused a health issues I understand it has been to the to be checked out for a stress issues for margarine headaches that impacts the behavior of their autistic child that has been impacted by this they have a swimming pool next to their house there they sell them use any more because it is so attractive for them to be even even out in into the yard itself. The next closest neighbors are going to small farms twenty and forty acre farms that have a large stock i've had opportunity to talk to some of those residents that live there that have forty acres that they run cat lawn and only about fifteen or twenty acres is usable because the laptop won't go on the end of the property closest to the crypto mind the lifestock doesn't like it probably more anecdotals anything but there are several of the folks out there they have dear feeders that they like for the deer to come up and they like to watch them no doubt there's probably a few of them hutting them when their season that since this has been in place and nothing comes to the deer feeders anymore so it's impacting the wild laugh as well this particular location is on my way to the courthouse I go to every day I stopped when they first started building the facility I stopped every day starting last. Last spring every day and take salary so I would stop at the end of misses anderson's driveway but consistent location and so I took sound readings all through the spring although the summer and then into the fall and has the complaints mounted and we invited the operators in the owners of this facility to come to the judge's office and we met with them and we tried to encourage them to do right now but by the local residents they did build a sound sound proving while closest to mrs anderson I saw the receipt on it that was six hundred thousand dollars to build the sound war and. Unintended consequence of various is when they built the sound wall in the north side of the property it bounced the sound to the southside in the people on the sale side of the property live a little further away who weren't complaining now started complaining so the operators built another sound wall on the south side and then when hitting built it on would be on the west side and so again with my sound readings I have to immed that the sound is is somewhat reduced from without the same walls the db level was in the seventy to seventy two range on consistent basis with the sound while if it's dropped into the mid fifties fifty three fifty four range so definitely had to help but I visit with miss anderson not long ago and and some of the other residents and I asked them as it is it is it better. And I just have to kind of give this any notable responses well it is better but it's like having a spouse who snores another they're laying next to you and they're snoring right in your ear and then you elbow and they turn over the other way in in yeah they're still snoring but it's not quite as low. And so that's how they describe it is the noise is not as loud but it is still cost. Cancel just to echo just to echo what my colleagues have said there is certainly an issue in regards to the public health and welfare of our citizens and fault and county in regards to the sound that there's been generated by the crypto mind facility however it's not merely just a noise issue this is more than just sound this is also an issue of water the tremendous melt of water not only that they're using but where is that water go and how does that seep into our the the water that's being used by the farmers and agricultural community how is that water being used but people that have wills we don't know those answers and so we are searching for help from you to try and generate this study so that we can find out more about what these crypto minds are actually doing too our communities we have enacted a noise ordinance and faultner county that's just one type of pollution but we have several other types of pollution that we are worried about because of this facility as well as future facilities fault or kelly not only had this proposed facility but there is also a second facility in the town of belonging that was basically stalled for the time being but I suspect there will be several others in the future and before these facilities are built and we are dealing with the effects of these cripped omar facilities we would incourage you to take the initiative and let's find out exactly the effect that these crypto mind facilities are having on our community and we appreciate you and we appreciate everything the job done so far but thank you for working with counties and we hope to be a good partner in the future. We do have a few questions representative pilgrims in your recognized negative analytic first i've appreciate you being here today I would like to just for you all in the committee make sure that we're using an extinction between data centers and crypto mighty facilities you know walmart google matter they are data centers that are all run they're all properties. II don't like it because I know in the language of the bill that kind of brought about this they use the term data center which is really a misnomer about whatever actually talk about we're accidental crypto mining so no. The artist both terms and I just wanted the committee to know these are two separate things and I hope that as we can do the discussion here a day we refer these only as cripped online and facilities cos II don't want people to get the wrong impression about what we're trying trying to regulate here or so I just want to make that no but my my question is. To see past the ordinance which is great and my securities could stuck with the the water is the health department not allowed to come in and inspect these facilities at all i'm just kind of curious do we do not have that rate to do that. The. All right to to my knowledge that certainly would have just diction I can't you know obviously I can't speak for them but you have to the extent that eh. There is water run off you i'm assuming they could should should we call them. So i'm sure we have people in the audience from the department felt that could answer that question more clearly I don't know if this would department felt this year i'm not sure who seller from five thousand want to come up and try to answer that question. Yeah if there's someone from adequate was to come to the table here go out to move to the side of and we have so many so many marks but just they're close they'll go anywhere there's a lot of big few questions is a good good topic so. The. He can just future tears over guy shouldn't have the leverage when I make some space material more department health trapol department health recognition on the further mister paul I think we would have if there was. The. Eighty k would be part of the conversation with with water run off as far as going inside the facility this that's going to be a little bit to have. II just had a brief aside with calendar asburn but most of this water that you're referring to is cooling water for or cooling towers so a lot of that is evaporative it's going to be going up and the atmosphere from what what I would assume is happening with these it's it's the cooling of the computer components and atmosphere I guess in those heated uh rooms so that's remote here the waste water would be under our perview as if there is a treatment plan or something like that that would also be under but potentially under as well cannot be here with any query won't you have some comments that would be helpful you often come to the table introduced yourself thank you. I am a. Myself good morning and back again i'm kale bosburn the chief and ministrator of environment for any and the director. Till regarding these facilities the the discussion a second ago where the mention of potential runoff or water being discharged from silly that is right that would be regulated by us what mister paul uh reference just to second a go we do also have a permitting program that relates to and we can talk about there's a greater length in a minute I don't want to tirely derail of yours questions but. We do also if they're using water for their cooling system that they're circulating at some point if they get rid of that water and discharge you to go somewhere we would also have authority over that and we have some existing permitting our programs that we are parts of our permanent program that we think will be applicable to that but certainly if for some reason there is water coming out of a pipe or some for some other reason coming off the side are out of the site that would constitute a discharge that is that is within our per view and what we would we would track and we would issue permits for inner yeah and so that's another reason why this isp is in public health because it is a public health issue clearly I mean i've heard from so many physicians that have seen patience as a result of the noise and what's happening and they've said you've got you've got to do something these are eant surgeons and then permanent is a big part of this but but one of the concerns I have is windows mine and correct me if i'm wrong but when this mine came in and they met with the mayor and only said that they were only going to use a certain amount of water per month. And you know in your on a water system mean we don't county with rural water associations my biggest concern and we just experiences and stone county where our system went down because we're pulling out of the white river and the system because of the water level the release from the dams you know you have to have a hydrologist it's a complicated system but it's a system that serves a lot of rural water associations will we ran out of water and my biggest concern is you have six hundred thousand gallons on minutes being utilized. At what point do we look at something and say wow. This could be a dangerous situation for community if they drain the water table or the water system is drained because of their ongoing twenty four separate operation what about the citizens and their usage or the other businesses located in that area. And is there any level of protection there so you might I know that we don't permit that or that's not part of the regulation I believe correct so i'm a little concerned about that to be frank with you from a legislative point of view I know that we deal with that in the energy space where we do have some um I guess stop gap measures to make sure that you know citizens have electricity in that businesses have electricity but we don't have that in the water space and it's alarming to me that we're using this amount of gallons of water which is a set of valuable resource for everybody so that's part of the discussion I want you to time in I think you know how much was sad at the beginning before they built and then what it is now share that and then i'll differ back to represent the pilkington I think he has more questions yes senator. If I recall in mister higgins you can correct me if i'm from wrong but early on in the conversations there was there was not any concern about the volume of water that was going to be used and I do know that the mayor of wooster and we spoke with on our weight of this meeting. Because we wanted to be sure with the number of we were going to tell you guys he he was caught off guard and he he manages their water system at his trade prior to becoming mayor of the city of wooster which is the water system supplying water for this this crypto mine. He was he was really caught off guard by the volumes really caught off guard it's a small water system so. It was. I think early on they had some problems with leakage and blew through a budget there were hopes that that was going to be curtailed. Uh buyer by most of the water usage but. On our way up here today he he told he expected it and it's just a guest as he knows. But he expected to settle in somewhere around two or three hundred thousand galance a month and by reference to personnel sold. Uses about forty five hundred gallons a month and I understand that. To be fair they could refuse to I guess to serve that customer I suppose I don't want to get out of my skis on that. But there is the question of capacity and and the ability to. Provide added capacity over time for particularly smaller water systems. Um. So II do think that's a concern and if with your permission at all select bring up so that I did not yet bring up II would think more so than the water quality of any water leading if it is at least the way it is and our county and that cooling system there may not be any contaminants in that I don't know i'm not qualified to see that the. The volume of water usage and if I could dobtail with your permission. In terms of. The tools at a local government's disposal to deter bad actors as we understand it there are there are data minds that are operated in a way that do not create excessive noise. But but there are those would like to one and forty county just really really really too noisy to be anywhere near. Uh a residents are even a business and we we do have a lot of questions in the currently pilgrim and you're still recognized for a follow up thank you and I know eighty just laptop just hope that maybe we can get someone out there a test that want to run off I would just like to know for for a piece of mind on that the other thing though i'm glad you bring capacity that's another thing i'm i'm kind of curious to get your take on there's a lot of economic development projects I know that are stalled around the state I think myself arkansas has the largest amount of request right now the new york now have because of these facilities that are in your county I mean are you seen other projects economic developed projects not being able to come online because of the lack of capacity that's been taken out by the status end of that to my knowledge is only creating one job do you speak to that. Just briefly I was at the green briar city council meeting the other night just as a actually ready higgins that I were both of that meeting but one of the issues is that both green brare and wooster operate off the community water program through greers ferry and were the statement that the green berm mayor made at that meeting was that they're a was potentially. The. They were going to be cut off because of the wack of water that they were going to be allowed to pool from that system so in that particular case it was a both residential and a commercial thing facility that green brower was trying to put in off how sixty five but that was the system that's forwarded because of the lack of water in so that's a serious issue that we have and that's just one example just in the last month it came from the lack of resources. Representative ray recognized for a question thank you mister chairman and judge thank you for being here I know you mentioned and my previously been aware that you all passed the model ordinance that the association account he said help develop. I guess my question is since passage of that ordinance is the is the operation out at bono or the complying with the noise level stipulated in the ordinance. So the ordinage was passed at about the same time that the sound barrier wall was implemented at that site our ordinary specifies that sixty db maximum during the daytime and fifty five at night they were exceeding that before they put up their sound wall at this point with the noise levels at. Fifty two fifty three db they're just under the fifty five limit at night. So we monitor it on a regular basis but until they actually exceed the limits of the ordinance there's nothing for us to enforce. And and i'd just like to add we have spent a lot of time and effort with the sheriff's office a training personnel to actually enforce this and it's a if invice for married with how you process a dwa for example there's a lot of effort in paperwork and process so that a DW can be prosecuted this is very similar in in the time consuming the map because you have to take temperature readings win direction wind speed ambient noise readings and you do them for multiple locations it's it's time consuming to enforce this alright thank you represent me if I can also say our noise ordinance measures decibels however one of the issues with crypto mining facilities is the things that we can't hear and I think that's one of the issues that we are asking this body to study is not just what can be heard but what about the other frequencies and that's something that we don't have the ability to to measure at our county level we can take a disa meter out but what about the things that we can't hear. Senator hammer you have a question. You reckon as. I don't think he was sure could could I have a queue back to the table absolutely. Should warning stacy whilst all the officer water quality associate director. Okay director. They feel for being here should this have been permitted by adq before it was put in operation. Yeah. The based on. Based on the information that we received about how the close loop system should have worked for cooling i. Well we think that at some point you're gonna have you they're going to do it since change out the water reset or recycle the water something and there is some permitting they need we understand how why they thought they probably would not need one because they do not if operating correctly they do not have a discharge in the traditional sense now given the boys and water that have been shared of what's happening what we've observed this particular site we have been there and we have seen places where water the close loop was not quite so closed in there was some water that was pooling and running off the site if that happens I need a permitted so we're actually working through the enforcement process on that for this particular site i'm going forward is going to be very dependent upon how the different sites operate is going to pin on what their use of water is and what their plans are for how they use water so it's you know this is a new area for us to talk with. With energy is about what their permitting needs would be in in what it would look like so the the biggest wanted for some reason they're gonna release that water and it's going to go off into a ditch and get to a creak and and move on that's a discharge and that's that's required in a federal clean water act which we administer in arkansas I got to have a permit how they handle water with you know close loop system and some what they intend to do it would get down to the particulars of how they do it there's a way they could probably handle it move it to a holding tank and dispose of it somewhere else they would not need a permit from us but certainly raises questions and we certainly are watching this and unfortunately it's kind of one of the first real test cases we've seen of one of the one of the sites that have done it other than that the other issue that we have seen was some of these in this is a common occurrence when there's development in different pros places around the state if they're disturbing more than one acre for the site and based on what we understand the size that some of these can be based on the number of units that are there they will need a storm water general permit when they're disturbing that ground and turn in the dirt we have run into that issue on some additional sites where people are planning on in the process of putting these sites up that's one that will be shortened duration once ideally once they're construction work is done and they have stabilized the ground that they had disturbed that that can be wound down and then it'll be a matter of what happens with the water that they have this is not a real clear car area for permitting in the same way that if you have waste what a treatment plant or other industrial facility that you know how much waters come in and what's happening is it because it's a newer area some of the challenges that the judge in in his. The team had shared today is part of it makes it a challenge and we're we're trying to work through an understand that ourselves short answer should they have been permitted. Before they began operations I mean they they may be didn't tell you everything you needed to know wanted to know maybe didn't want you to find out till after the fact that as the law stood at the time of which they began construction should they have been permitted before and then if they should have been and they weren't or you're doing it retroactive do you have the authority to shut him down. If if did not plan to discharge the water and know they do not have to have a permanent they have not falled through on what those plans were and they've indicated who is they did not have plans to discharge so they would not have had reason to have a permit now they have not abided by that and acted in that regard and that's why we're working through the enforcement so you could shut him down. We can require them to fix what they're doing with how they're handling the water in what that does their operations i'm not certain we don't have the authority to come in and say you can no longer operate we can dictate how the handle the water and what goes or what happens with their their waste water or their process where they're they're cooling water that they're getting rid of we can't go in and say no you can't do that now if they're not coming in compliance and how they're handling their water and getting rid of it that may mean they can no longer operate but we don't have the authority to go in and say no you can't operate any longer if they don't operate where you say they got upright to discharge water then you would have the authority to colour permit that they don't currently have well then we could we have ways that we can pursue that I think I assume now what you're trying to say as we pursue that in repush them to get into compliance and they can not get in the compliance and operate in that way then they will have to cease operations and we do have civil penalties no things we can levy and other legal remittees we can pursue thank you I would stay there I have a question but i'm a let's send her cars been waiting a long time only him ask his question then I have a question pre holiday to. Thank you mister chair. When you're talking about noise holiday and how you had measured that the noise there. The course I find that. But a very much respect the problems that are being headed various places and in another places those who have been said no problems at all. The. But I am curious although it's not my question about why some places are producing no noise I mean I understand the equipment still produce an ois but it's not affecting the neighborhood. But. What when you were talking about the measurement of seventy something in fifty something how does that correspond to living on the huawei. And how does that correspond to other industries. Because as we regulate noise pollution I want to be sure we don't inadvertently. Right regulate all of our industry. Out of the county and out of the state while trying because I don't think we can go out of this one. That you that sort of you know that's a perfect characterization of the challenge here not of a certainly me and master for absolutely pro development pro business but we understand their limits and so we have wrestled with that and we certainly don't want to impact the current or you any of the factories that operate so wonderfully around their state and our county. The it is a challenge you know a hardly david soon i'm not sure ready on horribly davids and i'm not sure what the db meter would read when one is running up through the gears with harley a bit it is very loud and I don't know there's something about the perpetual wine and up I don't have the answers from so I guess would be the point that I would make to you and it it is something that we at folder county struggle with our corn court which is comprised of thirteen individuals but when you multiply that around seventy five counties in arkansas. I know that we felt illegal to make that assessment in say hey list don't have. Only dinner consequences but at same time when we see this dear lady dealing with this problem and all artistic child. Uhm we struggle to find what is what should we do what should what's the right thing for that i'm wondering again I chose to live on the hallway. And if you set on my front port the noise is bothersome versus been on the backs out of the house. Oh the and so I wonder i'm a for corn court member and I wonder how much of this. Is zoning I can remember in hot springs and sexually oriented businesses strip clubs came in and were next to schools and extra churches and sold and we had to deal with that and had to deal with that carefully. But I work because I don't want to shut down the concrete plan that stand at the end of the road and which are bed is producing as much noise. It may be a different top noise but is producing as much noise as I don't know without knowing the measurements about lots of industry produces noise but sometimes it's placement. And so i'm wondering how much we're we're looking at that certain restaurants do a very good question that that I asked when I first started taking my sound readings of this location I took ambit noise readings it's it's on the side of how we to eighty five medium traffic the ambient noise in that area is about forty seven of fifty db during the early morning traffic period well below what this is causing but also interstate forty split the city of conway wide open under lots of traffic on interstate forty and so I was curious because we have sound walls in parts of the city of conway next forty that helps eliminate the noise going into the neighborhoods that are next forty so I went over there and took sound readings on both the interstate forty side of the water of the wall and then on the inside of the wall where the residents are the the db readings in some of those and heavy traffic during the day time was about fifty one or fifty two which is a little lower than what we're hearing right now at the crypto manning sight in in bono well thank you for the direct answer that that's very helpful they because we can all sympathize with these people but also know as we talk about zoning. A lot of times as counting we don't want to do that the people don't want us to do that I personally. But but by not doing it I can have not only cannot have this kind of industry next to me I can have a pig farm next to me in all except if I buy and a flan but yet as a until we get more urban a lot of us like to live that way and so I am just i'm really trying to figure out what we're asking ourselves to do and yes II can see in these areas where you have a problem and it needs to be dealt with but I just won't be sure we go the right direction thanks so much for your answers. If I can just provide a brief response that also want the frustrations at the county level is earth we go to the process for the sheriff's department to train our people to have them actually go out and write assitation for this I think the maximum fine is two thousand dollars and this is a fine towards an organization is probably paying half a million dollars in electric bill each month. And but this one more thing mister chair. We developed and always ordinates in garland county over the shooting ranks. And. The and what we found out is it's extremely hard to police extremely hard than member to not club doesn't matter extremely hard to measure and then do something about. So does it not come back to more question of zoning. That's a fair question thank you thank you mister chair absolutely not I think it's important to know the difference in distinction between two health risk with regard to noise pollution which I think is very much a state responsibility to wait on you from the standards of the part of itself to look at and say you're what is an unhealthy amount of noise for the citizens and to protect the citizens across the state from and help the amounts of noise whether that's in a frequency we can hear or that's in a frequency we can't hear right but I think what you've established what those safe practices are at certainly thinks important to preserve local autonomy over zoning to decide within your community where you want to establish these places and where you don't so to me the the real issue at hand is not is you know looking at a noise pollution. Policy as a state that set some standards its industry indifferent right and does it specific to necessarily crypt the mining bit takes an account in the industry that might come to the state in the future in each in it in the industry this year so II do have a question did not apart from that bit what it did want to make a comment my question was ready to and we have several questions in the customer really good topic we're going to continue to discuss this for a little while at some point I will have to get a soft if we're gonna get out of here at a decent town I suspect this won't be the last time we discuss this issue as a committee this is an important issue it's a new issue I also specified the only state struggling with this is us cripped the money as a relatively new industry freddy you know you said that they have a closed looped system for their water and that we don't require permitting for close looped systems is that correct. Itself there are other ways that they could deal with it it is correct because it comes down to how they're going to deal with if they're using water and how they're circulating I mean it did but in general not specific to crypto mining in the internal as a state if you have an industry that has an evaporative system for water this close loop does not discharging any water we don't require permitting for that well we do have a general permit that is available so general permits for general plicability across industries across the state that we you know having a place for our non contact cooling water in in boiler or coolist and blow down so it's four systems like this that we use it that they are using a large volume get rid of it and do something with it there is an option a tool that is out there there is available this tends to be for larger you know I think there's other processes that know they're using a large buying a water and they're going to have to do something with it as they maintain their system to be sure it is cooling appropriately so there is that and that is regulated the size of in the purported amount that they should be using this particular site was wondered. According to what they said when we have been outside to do an inspection and talk to him about it they intend to handle some other way which is probably volume that could be trapped off and disposed somewhere else so it's gonna have to be dealt with some way we do permit the normal course of action be to permit somebody who's using cooling water for this purpose. Would be the way that said the date so did they do that they do not have a permit for that right now I mean II guess I you can see the confusion there it sounds like I mean some of the commission may met it sound like they didn't need to be permitted because they were gonna be discharging water correct. It then and then you said on top of that there is a system for permitting people that have closed loop systems. In yet they didn't obtain that permit i'm trying to understand why some people with close of systems would have detained it permit is that the volume of water is that what triggers that it's really the buying water if you have a low according to what they had asserted now we are also pursuing actions to bring them in the compliance one because their system was leaking and that's that's a discharge under our rules and you have to either be permitted you have to cut out what's causing it to run off your site we as we pursue this action we are we are. We have approached them about this permit and recommended this as this needs to be done or else they're going to have to explain to us what's going to happen with the water but it really is a via an issue so for in a large industrial process for those in tons and tons of water there's no number of trucks is that is that by you may specifically be is that just a subjective we thank you to match it feels like that should be a amount we know. And if you're using this much you need a permit if you don't why would we leave that subjective. Yeah so it. There's not a magic number it's going to be what they can is what they can handle if they're willing to if they have a holding tank that they can put this in and then track it to a waste water treatment plan to get rid of the water or do something like that as their decision most operators you would want this permit because it gives you a clear course of action we came in to we were made aware of this side if I mean back up we were made aware of this site based on complaints from me in individual stapped us as we were this was brought up I believe in october november of last year there is an initial discussion around these sites and individual who's concerned came and ask is how do I bring a complaint for you. We share with her what to do with that we had our inspectors go to the site we assess what what was going on and we had been pursuing and following up with those with those actions in part because of the novelty of this these entities which is a large part of why I think we're here today there is not clear. There is less clear information about how they're handling what they're doing with water what's happening we have had to find this out is we're going and that's why we're working through our are enforcement process working bringing their compliance to your answer they should they should have the permit as the most clear cut way to keep themselves out of trouble if if they want to insist they do not need one and they can prove they have a plan to handle that water some of the way they do not have to but it would be a wise course of action with them to do so a lot of it comes down to the question that the judge mentioned a minute ago about the volume water they were drawing there's clear dissonance between what they're saying they're using and what the water provider is saying is happening and feels like it's an entity we should have specific number and this shouldn't be subjective that the other question one of the question I was see to sit on other members the is there a routine process for inspection for the people that do have the permit for the close systems who say we're going to dispose of water we're not going to be discharging water do we have a routine process for inspecting these places or we just relying on community members to follow complaint. So we do have routine systems for inspection for the permitted entities that we have as a general permit this is a pretty common permit that will have in certain places now they may have that in addition to a waste water treatment system and they're going to get inspected more because they have more processes that were were looking for there is a question from representative pilgrims and earlier about the water quality issues they should be lesser because this is water that's drawn from the water provider circulated through the system there may be an increase in some concentration what was already in the water that is reason we need to have a permit for it when it is just charged to make sure nothing has been added to or anything has happened. So there is inspections will be conducted we always in there are times where there are things they're not working the way they should that we will have complaint driven inspections we do both of us represent order chat a question thank you mister chair judge thanked for being here and sender cart basically asked matt over here senator cart basically asked my question and I appreciate the direct answer I think what I would like some clear to you and though is have you all done any testing to see what that desk will level would be in your county that wouldn't preclude any other industries that are currently operating but would allow you to maybe lower that through your county ordinance. To try to get down on some of the noise level and I guess what would that decibel level be. Alright thank you the question in it you know that it in many cases it starts to seem like maybe land use controls would be appropriate however much we do not have an app to after that incorporate areas of of our stay. But it it really is location specific mean it's one of those things we're when you see it you know it but in terms of the actual levels. Our corn core wrangled course that our suggestion and careful guidance wrangled back and forth on what really makes sense we settled on sixty and fifty. They suppose depending on which you know at the time of the day uh in our permitted to mister higgins here just second to talk more about that because he runs around with this. His meter in a shop formators and there's a whole you know good major bad meter. Can you defend this in a court of law uh whole landscape there for enforcement but. The challenge that I heard from our our other counties around the state these were great people just struggling with an area of law about which. And just the science there's no industry there that we can lean on so yeah well this is much like a compressor station from the shield gas play which was addressed I believe through regulation if i'm not mistaken the noise being admitted from the compressor stations and i'm not sure if that was in action because it was a health concern and I know public safety you know from the noise or if it was just at it exceedingly allowed I wish I had more solid answers for you but I think mr higgins can talk specifically about the numbers and how we settled in on sixty and fi. So i'll back up just look at a served on the corn court of fault county for for twelve years and I really only made one bad political mistake and that is not tried to introduce a north ordinary six or seven years ago before we even knew what crypto mining was and it was to try to solve a problem where we're somebody was building a gold cart track in a neighborhood in the unincorporated part of the county and as we tried to result solved this problem it seemed to make sense which is get it on the table and talk about it and quite frankly crucified in fault or county over trying to introduce a noise or during that time though we did look round to see how it would impact farmers how it would impact you know people who are bailing hay out out in the case how would it impact those who might be doing mechanic work in testing vehicles and really that was the push back on that when the cripped all money came up though it was very surgical we were really trying to find unit specifically not the single out in individual try to run in industry out of our county where that we knew that this particular industry if you will always was causing the problem now similarly though I also live through the all in gas and the fract drilling through faultner county and you know we had complaints during that period and I had a three head frack well that was drilled about six hundred yards from my property when the local dairy farms it's my neighbor I decided to opportunity for him to make some money the difference was we knew the fract wills would come in and they would drill in it sounded like living next door to a ford motor plant building cars but it would only last six to eight weeks and then they would be gone and then the will would be there what surprised is though in that situation is that what was left was a caterpillar diesel engine that was running all of all the time and mister chaired to response to comment that you made about industry regulation the all in gas commission actually did address that. Through regulation in in a power that they had in their industry to provide solutions to that problem putting covers over these caterpillar diesel engines and mitigating that the different she is there is no industry standard for crypto money and there is no industry to regulate it that's part of our problem at the county level appreciate those comments representing it back you reckon us for a question. Thank you preschedule made it ask. II have been to the faulter county site. The. I called map and asked me to come out there and I i'll be asked with it now this is before you put the sound and all that stuff I open the door my vehicle and i'm like wow it was it was that so I appreciate you guys all the effort she's done but had got me to looking at other sites and i've been to other sides. Same distance away from them. And the noise level with with no bear no sound barriers and the noise level was much lower. And I actually talked about after my first visit to another site so so while they were probably off at that period they weren't doing whatever so I went back and I went i've been back to three times that site and there they're very. Almost not noticeable that the audio level so my question is this have has there been any study done on all these sites cost some of them seem to be a lot quieter than others and maybe that's an approach that we could take this is ok. Yeah I obviously if there's technology out there that allows an operate client you know this is maybe that would be the approach to take that if you're going about this level then you're going to have to do these additional regulations or whatever so well I can answer it a little bit this way in that in taking my daily readings at the side in in bono their times that I go out there and it's foggy in the mornings and and I pull up and get out at the step away from my truck so then you know the cooling of my engine don't impact you know my noise reading so step away from that drug and take my readings and on a foggy morning it seems as though it's quieter say while the fog is having an impact on it but when I pull my db meter out it doesn't change there are other days that it seems like cloud cover to my ears would impact this as well this is not quite as loud pull out my dv meter though and it's almost exactly the same so III think it terms it seems like it may be louder or not is loud but the meters is kind of telling the truth with it to enter another question have we checked other sides and I specifically have gone to conway county there's a side in moral ten at judge heart heading body to go check out taken some readings there and their very similar to the bono site that there are some differences in at the bonosite surrounded by trees aside from the sound war the site in conway county outside of moralton it is different across the street as a cemetery nobody's complaining there that I know up and then there's a raral track to the other side there is a ape in energy lay down yard that industry so there's no complaints from that and there's one small business that several hundred garage way so it's not right on top of their their closest neighbors unlike the location in bono. Push it all the time in the comments were spending a good good discussion still a good topic but we're gonna have to some point move on we get two more questions in the middle take these two questions and then we're going to catasoph on this topic and move on to another topic center keen you recognized. Thank you mister churches were quick so my brothers on the care kind of come forward to the ordens we had the situation in harrison had happened that fortunately the bono facility kicked off first that gave the indication for hers to do what it heard so I understand this is still going so the big problem with the bill that got past the tide you guys local hands of any challenge gets thrown in court with the way the rose law firm drafted this legislation to get automatically gets drawn into federal court and so county government city governments just don't have the resources to be able to fight this in court so that's one of the problems with this bill that these billion dollar chinese companies are whoever else the automatically go to federal court which takes correct me from wrong takes more money takes longer to fought bono that citizens up there or have chili fundraisers to fight right jeannings. Crosby steels and nasure whoever they are in court in the federal court so it's what yeah it's unbelievable the situation that these people get put into I mean any orders that you get you're looking at it like we gotta go to federal court and take two years to fight this is probably realistic. It is it is an issue thank you for bringing out I would just say we we are willing to help senator urban asked reached out and we want to help they were rock and long and folder county and we know that I mean it just is the way it is will go fight those if we have to unfortunately enough to have a county civil attorney on staff and we can do that but as you know there may be eight or ten counties in the state that do have full time county civil attorney. On staff who knows where hours will end up if if it's litigated our ordinance but will do what we're going to do but I we want to take the opportunity to just let you hear from our side and say the four way to the state of arkansas whatever is appropriate we're here to help but I just like to put the money put it back on you guys is that you could you decide what you want in your county and if people do is I tell people when they call back in carol can you so if you don't like it you know talk to core quarter city council run for them and put the I address the decision be back on you the let's let your making it as we see with this you know we can't changing things for two years if you put something in the law and and we don't know what's going to happen it's just better you guys meet monthly it's better just let local governments on this thing for you guys to decide what they want and if they don't like your decision as they will go to up the judge or my brother anyway thank you very much. Send him a recognized for the question thank you chair two quick ones that the company their own sir one in question and who owns the sole that it sitting on is an american company ears of foreign company my understanding is that it's it's foreign although our our county attorney spits of time trying to run up through the nested holding companies. Ermitraced it certainly out of state and I think potentially out of country I don't want to speak out turn but it was a little bit of a challenge determining that please with our resources alright and then for adub the for the for the dollar investment for the for where and and this company may be peers to drive and snow but for the for the man investment that they put in I find it hard to believe that they didn't know the water value that was going to be required to do that have you done any investigation or is there any way for you to investigate that they have withheld purposely information from you that would have avoided having to get a permit that they knew they would have had to have gotten because I found it hard to believe that they didn't know how much water was going to take and the resources that it was going to take and would that have put them in a position have to come to you first that they didn't want to do because they knew if they did you'd have to issue my permit whereby they may not have gotten the ability to build it have you investigated that. We have I know in other sites and I don't remember for the fire I don't have the file for this would in front of me but I know one of the first things in our inspectors would do would be to find out the design of the plant and find out if there's any engineering or other planning that was going on around it that should say to the issue of volume like what is the volume of what you need to have I know that we've had some conversations about that in terms of information that was withheld or anything like that i. Typically our our inspection in records requests in those things would not necessarily get into some of the direction where I where I see you're going but we should be able to see from the estimatics and design and the sizing of different component parts of the plant to understand the same plan of the site in of this system that is part of this site to know what's going on there and that's part of why as we move forward to this conversation with them finding out from them what they're expectation was because they even if it was the lesser volume of water that they would say they were planning to use they still needed a game plan for it and to know what's going to happen the final disposition of that water and if they come up short on that that will there will be a factor that we take into account as we work through the enforcement side so maybe not digging to some of the degree in some of the angles I think you have reference but there is a lot of record design review some of those things that we would need to know to understand what they anticipated and I do want to add very quickly one second was reminded in we have a a one pager that we have been for beginning to provide to folks you are calling to ask questions about this we have some copies of it we did not get it to the committee in advance we have some we can provide now but we'll also send if you're willing chairs that we will send it to committee staff so that they can circulate it it's a one pager about our waste water side of what we do we also we are going to be placing it on our website. We get that up there we can share a link as well so if you all have constituents who have questions about this they can reference theirs we think it'll be a handy guide in terms of the starting point of work to expect or at least no what the areas were specifically going to be looking for and how these sites are operating but certainly there's complaints are concerns or you're constituents there and certain about something that's going on that they need to ask we would encourage them to reach out to us and let us follow up and in hopefully I give some clarity to what's going on and make sure folks are operating in in compliance thank you how long to you complete your investigation thank you mister. I will meet with our team today and find out I know it has been referred to our enforcement section and we have talked about prioritising this to move it forward I can get an estimate and then let you know it'll it'll probably be well when we find out I don't want to speculate but I know it's it's in the review process but all i'll follow up in today's conversation may prompt some specific things we want to make sure very clear and how we communicate back to the entity center of any other comment yet thank you mr terror thank you to the members of the committee for the great discussion excellent questions thank you for the testimony and bad the department as well as partner county delegation I want to invite secretary corey he is here i've i've spoken with him at length about this issue I want him to cannot just explain there is a statewide standard for the oil and gas commission I think mister higgins brought that up and I think for the for the benefit of our legislators if he can just discuss that specific authority to typo on this and in furthermore deferred to the chair I think we have a plan of action for and moving forward but really great interest study proposal this is what an isp is supposed to be like and about today was a great exercise and as doing our job and and studying this issue and understand it from me we have to do a hospital benefit analysis of what the economic impact is on the health of our citizens but also what is the economic development gain from theirs and from anything I can see we're not gaining anything from this but a lot of headache and it's actually deterring further in future economic development because of the drain on our natural resources so with that I really appreciate it thank you mister chair for the length of discussion and just want to recognize secretary correct just to talk about secretary you're you're going to be blessed with no questions because we'll let you have comments but we're not atlantic questions at this time so whatever comments you have to make we present. Oh thank you that's amazing so I appreciate I appreciate that i'm going to be here and we did ring caleb and the environmental sad I did not bring anybody specific from the old gas commission but many of you know I spent a large part of my career in the whole gas commission was. The attorney when we actually did that noise regulation and that is a specific you know in all and gas we have very specific broad authority about jurisdiction over all persons and property necessary to enforce the provisions of the old gas at so we had a very broad status store authority that that is specific to only all I guess which is the authority we used to adopt the state wide noise regulation and it only applies to certain facilities nonwell hit compressor stations and specifically in the further thing there is you had a point in time when industry understood that they were causing a lot of of additional noise and were willing to come to the table and sit down and solve it together so I think that was great work about the commission but are so a willing industry at that point in time so thank you thank you president this connection in committee this is we do have a subcommittee process and I think this is the bad deal popping to refer to a set committee so we have the subcommittee on labor and environment so what i'd like to do is refer this topic back to that subcommittee for a separate meaning. The idea behind that would be to come back to this committee with some general recommendations as to whether we need to take some legislative action in the coming twenty twenty procession if there's something that can be changed the rule to help augment in each sort of regulatory states we need to do in in the recommendation could be to come back to say we don't need to do anything at all we just going to continue to leave this up to individual counties and cities as we see fair but I do think the smart it's more discussion and so when it refer that to that subcommittee and we'll set up a tom where maybe I can come back and get to come back to talk some more. Alright moving on to the next time agenda thank you. Looks like department of health is up next with the tobacco settlement commission report we do have a hand out with this would be passed out. The. Fingers state your names for their record and then you recognize present a mac more department health. Skates w bosement college public health emily lane university of central arkansas. Miss chair i'll go ahead and and start off you know this is the tobacco settlement commission report. For april three june of twenty twenty three i'll see this report or similar versions of this report. I brought miss gates with me today from the college of public health at ams yellow vast in the past that we bring. A various programs before your to learn a little little bit more about what they do so i'll be very brief in my comments then turn it over to her to get a few stats in a little bit about the programs that they offer over there. But in this report arm. A few things I just want to point out we sold increase in educational opportunities and outreason where provided during this quarter and that's going to be through community advance screening events reached not a private and public entities but also providing health education for healthcare professionals also so increased numbers in the little individuals that were served through the tobacco expansion program at DHS couple of populations there one of those being the are singer's program and then also the pregnant women category also sold increase in the amount of leverage funds this quarter that can be funds at these problems bring in through outside donations grants of the succeed money that they use sold increase there so that's always good that they're reaching out of find other sources of revenue as well to support their systems in their programs. Additionally we had increased emphasis on tobacco prevention among youth and providing more opportunities to provide education to youth across the state and that's done through a variety different ways of schools and programs that sort of increased efforts there. The deployment of the mobile health unit with a military health commission that's a department of health but they've anywhere health commission has a mobile unit that they have been utilizing more and more growing its services in the open the services that provides across the state through screenings their educational awareness around health so that was if you don't increase there and then lastly the all person claims that a base in increase usage there that's been a good program the state has now to get some data out of insurance data so they're seeing increase users they are providing more training opportunities for the entities that use that so I know this very brief and we've been here a while now that you'll have their things on the agenda but I do that misgate speak briefly about the college and the thing if they offer over there and some of their programs if I could. I appreciate the opportunity to share the information about our college and all the good work we're doing today just give you some brief information about our students we currently have two hundred and sixty students enrolled in our college this semester. That split among ours three certificate programs are a three masters programs and four doctoral programs albert her health related and. Yeah varied in what we look at we've got and by money health sciences and health policy management sort of standard public health but we've also. Got a masters and science and a certificate and healthcare data analytics which is a growing field very quickly in health care and public health. Right now we also have about three hundred and twenty four applications for a students to start in the in sprang summer and fall of twenty twenty four we tend to get more later in this spring so that should increase fairly significantly. We expect ninety two students to graduate in may and previously are graduated outcomes have been between ninety three to one hundred percent students. Employed subsequent to graduation. And the majority of them stay in arkansas somewhere in arkansas several of them going back to the rural areas that they live in. And have worked before. So we have a total of ten scholarships for our students we are regularly trying to raise money for more scholarships too broaden our base of students who can better afford it. And. We have we are starting soon what is called the arkansas health survey it's a partnership with. A six other five other schools in arkansas are consistent university of central are consider you a little right and you university barking site pimeles. The ideas that will be collecting health data from individuals in every county of the state. As well as health care access data from so we can have a better picture of our county level data moving for it and what we can offer and what where the needs are both in health and public health throughout the state. The. So we also I wanted to share a little bit about some work that are a study for the center of a vecity or tether for the steady rubbish excuse me as doing particularly the green school initiative that they're working on with the the rock school district the idea is that. They create in or two changed into a green school which is more accessible to individuals outside of school hours. The idea is that it will provide more ability for outdoor learning improved outdoor play experiences and be a say safe and welcoming space for a students and commerce to connect with nature both through school and outside school areas they've found evidence suggests that green school yards can if so take play and physical activity which both of which help reduce we gain in students which is a significant issue in arkansas they are also hopeful in approving academic outcomes in just helping their community at large. So the goal is to explore the packways through which the green school yard improvements can reduce the development of a bcd. And their health related problems as well as improve academic outcome and community well being within those different. Scores and communit. So. I'm happy to take any questions on any of that members you would have questioned specifically around our public health program or generally about the tobacco settlement programs that have been presented. Thank you I just think it's super important you know that we are really work with the tobacco settlement to make sure that we leverage everything that we're doing here to help us get towards that nci designation for the rockefellers that cancer center or so and appreciate everything in the report everything you're doing thank you. Are there any other questions members. Sing down we proceed to sharing this report and thank you time today thank you next up we have dhs rules pertain to provide a refunds and promote your provider qualifications. You just take a seat and state your name for the committee thank you. Mitreas chief staff DHS. Good morning jean it may end deputy secretary of programs and medicaid director. You recognized. Thank you I believe the first rule before you today is on provider refrain refund and primary care provider qualification update this has rule has come out of a parm audit which is done every three years are the federal government on payment error rate measurement on eligibility and are paying of our claims so we have modified the rule to have. The rendering providers add what their numbers onto our claims so we did have a public hearing we did get several public comments we did not get any questions from blr or and then we did not make any revisions after public comment. Um. And I can answer any questions. Any questions from the committee. Seeing none with that objection this rule stands review next on the agenda. Is rules pertaining community employment supports. If you could just state your name for the committee. Hi melissa weather ten director of medicaid specially population you recognize thank you. Okay I have two rules before you today for their division of developmental disability services so the first one is the licenger standards for a provider type called the community and employment supports agency there's three main providers that are qualified in license to probably helming community based services to our past members and this is one of those provider types the other two just for your reference is the community support system provider and the outpatient behavioral health agency provider said between these three license your types these are the providers they are going out in doing services and clients harms for past members so we had sunseted the licenser manual for this particular type when we set up the past program at that's harm eroneously thinking that we were going to have the passes kind of handle all of this erm and quickly learned after we sunset it that manual that that probably wasn't am going to happen or best practice so we've been we've been licensing them but we've been licensed to them by walking around with them a hundred and fifty page approved cms waiver rate so night super ambition and it's been very confusing for our providers so we finally took that way that was approved last year and have earners trying to sting and back up with this a license or standard said that these providers know what they're being judged against and what they're expected to deal and i'm happy to take any questions. The. Siner you recognize for question they pursued was this originally a responsibility that the passes were supposed to do or damage understand what you just said so for only this pervire type standard hammer because I had gone in and sunsetted this manual what we asked the passes to do what is in their provider agreements with the with the with their network providers we ask them in that agreement to stick in all of these requirements for so we had something to help license these providers all the other provider types under the past week always licensed and we've always had updated license your manuals and i'm trying to engage my memory would would there be any reason to have reduced what we were paying the passes if we expected him to do it before but we relieved a mother's response bill to your they have this responsibility is just repositioned differently yeah we don't pay them anything different for this change all that it did the passes mark going out in doing licenseer it was just trying to put these providers on notice on what was expected out of them when they signed the agreement erm staff at DDS has always maintained that obligation to go out and do license your visits and to give updated. Certifications so the pass is really didn't have any responsibility other than we kind of use them as a vehicle to reinforce our expectations since we didn't have a manual in place thank you very much as any other questions. Seeing no and then without objection this rule stands reviewed it looks like you're still up. So. In december we came before you guys were an overarching rule because beginning in january first of twenty twenty four medicaid started reimbursing primary care providers to perform developmental screens many of you in the ramar familiar that DDS has had a contract with opt to perform developmental screens on kids before they go into an early intervention date treatment clinic as kind of that gatekeeper function so we wanted to some are different perspective of a child they bought a child should go to one of these clinics. Because medicate is paying for this service now we want to put that power back into the hands of the physicians and the aprnames and the pcps who are taking care of these children and we will now be reimbursing them for the screens so we didn't want to be deplicated and continued to pay a vendor so this change before you today is reinforcing that in order to go to an eddie tea that they will need to show that they have a developmental screen from their pcp in the previous twelve minutes and that that that pcp recommends that they go to an eddit for further testing. Center have a recognized request and we terminated the contract with optimal did we reduce it I mean they're there are the picture now with this so correct chest with this sand or hammering you know they're still doing are independent assessments for the other programs the week but we scale down their contract amount from what was original amount because we're taking this away from exactly correct yes I are thank you members with any other questions. Seeing down there with that objection this rule stands reviewed they can talk machier you hear. Excellent. Members we have a few more roaster review I think will be out of here with that in big issue before the top of the hour if you can just bear with us. If you get this said at the table and state your name for the committee. And after you've resetted a representative have you been recognized present you can present thank you mr chair members of the committee i'm large you from the department of health. I have changed david department of help we're here to present four rules to you today under I the at least pertaining to control substances we had a public hearing and a public comment period we did a have several comments with regard to silencing one of the proposed substances that we were trying to schedule three we have removed silencing from the list at this time after the public comments were giving it a some am additional that full consideration and comparing to other states and the federal pending legislation are with regard to silencing we are moving forward with the remaining substances we have several that are being controlled under. A scheduled wine and there listed in your summary we have a few that were added a per the recommendation of state law enforcement officials and also doctor david looks to the da for am guidance as far as wet placement is appropriate for certain substances we did have a public comment period with regard to the other substances and there were no public comments other than with the previously mentioned silencing we are moving forward with the other substances at this time and we are happy to take any questions membership in questions I just thank you for for doing that I know the veterinarians I think was the biggest issue without asacrate so yes we want to make sure that we have the appropriate exemptions and we are looking at what other states are doing some states have scheduled salazine as a scheduled wine and we are not looking to do that at this time but we want to make sure that we have the appropriate language to provide for the legitimate use of the at the substance thank you the other questions seem known and with that objection will stands review. Next step is a rules pertaining to the board of sanitarians thank you mr chair members of the committee moving on to the last three rules these are occupational license and I have with me a mystery terry paul you could just station over the committee for the record thank you to your paul department of hill. With regard to the rule a pertaining to the state board of sanitarians are we amended these rules to comply with legislation there were two thirty seven and acts for fifty seven of twenty twenty three these reviews sponsored by senator hill one dealing with the occupational license licensing of uniform service members and the second one dealing with automatic occupational licenser for outer state licensees and were happy to take any questions. Member seen no questions this rule stands review. Thank you mister moving on to letter we have a similar amendments for the rules pertaining to water operator licensing at both of the acts previously mentioned have been amended into the approposed amendments for these rules happy to take any questions. With any questions from november seeing none with that objection this will stands review. Thank you mister chair members of the committee and we appreciate your patience today the last remaining rules the same amendments pertaining to the rules for septic tank cleaners with the ad to acts that were previously mentioned happy to take any questions here is the questions. Seeing none with that objection this rule stands review midnight thank you so much for time members ask you know where the business is you don't have any comments before we adjourn. And we will likely be looking to meet again the last week of march is probably the time. We're gonna look on the calendar we'll try to get your baselines as quick as we can. Every thank you so much for the people it came to the fact that yesterday it was really great plan to do more of those fi so one of them is to get a new core because they do utilize our waste tires and so it's energy and environment issue yeah thanks to center or before you know that with that any other comments this meeting is adjourned.