Public Retirement & Social Security Programs-Joint

Appreciate your attendance. The first item up for business is consideration of approval of our october fifth two thousand twenty three meeting minutes have a motion from senator chesterfield all right need discussion. All those in the favor say I post samsung motion carries next item up on the agenda is to review the rules from arkansas teacher retirement system. This is a requirement before they go before a lc which they're trying to do later this month so at this time I would ask. And whoever is going to present for arkansas teacher retirement system to please come forward. This. For members and go ahead and identify yourself and the position who you're with. Thing was german mark white are executed direct for the arkansas teacher atom system. Generally well general council for the artist or teacher retirement system okay and correct me if i'm wrong but these are have to do with legislation that we passed it's partly partly that partly smother changes were making will cook through those okay these rules so we have twenty one items that you need to go through so what will do is treat these as a batch will let the director and miss lewo discuss and then if you have questions feel free to stop them and they will answer any questions that you have everybody good with that. Okay. Please present date was chairman somewhere as this is a an over there lengthy package of rules and so won't give very quick overview of why that is and what we're doing here we have this is up comprehensive rerote of our rules and we're doing that for civil reasons number one there are acts from the twenty point three session that needed to be reflected in the rules and so we do have a number of legislative changes that were implementing secondly as i'm I think many of your aware BLR is working on a new compilation of all of the states administrative rules are to be called the code of arkansas rules and as part of that there's been an ongoing process to change the formatting of rules and the way they look so they all have a consistent look and format across date government and so are making changes to accommodate that style and make it ready for that code of arkansas rules that's coming we're also making some changes both substantive and nonsensitive to bring clarity and close gaps and the existing rules are in almost every case you'll see here on all i'll try how like these as we go but knows every case the changes were making its things where we were already practing that is how we interpret the rules it's just just the rules may be ambiguous mainly not may not be as clear as we're trying to make it more explicit so that members understand their rate is on the front and this is how we implement these particular rules are also looking for up to use to clean up and clarify language and formatting and then revising the numbering for simplicity. And so if you have a the packet in front of you you may have a black and high cobbishes may not necessarily help you but what we did do since it is a rewrite all the language is going to be underlined and so that makes more difficult to tell what's new or what's changed we've used color coding in these if it's blue that is non substantive changes that the staff recommended green text is such a sustainable changes that staff recommended to our board. Red is for legislative changes and then brown his language that was moved from one section to another so if he yes i'll alternate walked through and identify these in each rule so you'll know what we're talking about hopefully in the black and lock hoping still is there's a difference in the tone. And then also there's a few places that are holiday in yellow again that won't necessarily it should show on the the company may not be yellow but you should be able to see there's a shade around text that text that was changed in response to public comment. All right so i'll go through these are each rule of time the first is rule zero dash one these are rules that every state actually has to have stop lines their organization and basics of how they operate we haven't made any sustainable changes that affect the rost responsibilities of members in this rule all we've done is we just cleaned up some language for example there is a fax number that was incorrect so we correct that fax number and then rearrange it so it's in the code of architectural style and then changing the title to rule one rather than zero dash one. All right then rule four this is the rule that relates to the election of our board of trustees we've made some clarifying change here and director can you hold one second. Sure so. Are you in this. This will be give you here now yeah this because it was sixty two okay. I got up i'll call those out as we go through it make that clear. Yes yes. Okay so on rule four election of the board of trustees and this is your exhibit too or make some clarifications around how members vote and this reflects our current practice but the issue that comes up and would try to address here is that we have course we have active members we have retired members not the board there are positions that represent active members in position that represent retired members there are some ambiguity in the rule if you're someone who retired and they went back to work for a school there's some ambiguity that might be read to say that you could boat in both of both elections and that's not consistent with what all have an statue so we changed the rule language make that explicit that what you retired you vote in the retiree elections not in the act of elections we also cleaned up some language around the tamlands or some language that could have allowed the ballots to be sent later than march fifteenth and we wanted to give members at least a month to be able to get their balance back in so we've changed that to make the explicit male doubt by march fifteenth. We also had this bit against been the practice we made explicit that in order be counted a ballot has to be received by the vendor by april fifteenth and I have confirmed with the vendor they do date stand those ballots as they come so there is an audit trail and that is them that can be verified after the fact and they also just cleaned up the language around the terms of office for about the point of trustees and then for individuals who are elected after there's a vacancy and she might clear that those individuals do come in with a six year term when they're elected in questions on that item. So repayton. Thank you mister chair so on page six near the bottom d one. Page six and then d one it says a special election to fill the trust the position caused by resignation of vacancy by other cars shall be scheduled and held if. So does article statute or do we not have that spelled out as to whether or not it shall be a special election or or I mean if it says if the board by majority vote determines that the vacancy should be filled by a special election at a big if I mean what if they don't it is near and statute is has that if as well as a statute gives the board the right to decide will they feel the vacancy bar appointment or about special election out I told you that the practice of the border or nearly as been if there's going to be enough up a general system election within the next year they will follow the appointment route rather than incur the expense of having two elections in the same that makes perfect sense is sense it's just it for clarifying the rules maybe we should just put the time for him in there. And nail it down ninety days or whatever it's what the in the statute it doesn't set that time for it was said you just give a flat choice of either either want the board and so I think the board turned week we talked about that my guess is I think they would like to preserve flexibility this and status so if they can make that decision based on the circumstances thank you. Other questions I will i'm sorry it's not okay. Thank you thank you mister mr white you said that retirees can only vote for retails but if you are so. An active position. Does that change or are you always going to have to vote in a retired position. Sorry that my own once you retired as we read the statue you should only be voting in that retiree election and not in those active elections and so you're never going to be you can work out a long be active as you want to but what she retired that's where you will vote from now desperate thank you so much. Okay. Thank his chairman these next few rules are far dash one through five dash eight and this is your exhibit c three for c nine. And I can I if it's out of the year mr chairman i'll give it an explanation that plans all of those items c three through c nine these are all older rules that were promulgated years ago. Number one they probably never should have been probably getting the first place because their internal rules relate to the internal processes around investment. They don't relate to the rights of the responsibilities of our members of our employers so I even under the apa they price should not have been promulgated but also they've had become obsolete because they haven't been a minute some time one of them was repealed some years back that's far dash five which is not included in this now we're just cleaning up and replening the rest of those so that they're no longer on the works we do have board policies that relate to investment and how we go about the process of our investing but that is an interal operationality and so to the pay that does not have to be propagated. Any questions members. Here we go percent of collins you recognized thank you just curious did the decision to just repeal these have anything to do with any legislation we pass in the last session. I'm trying to. So. They are part of my memory is failing I know that with the new ministration they'd express a desire to have for every new rule this promoted to have an an older one repealed and so we did include this as part of that recognizing the demonstrations wish my memory is failing me on it you are including that legislation or not that was part of the okay. The. All right continue. All right we'll now move to rule six this will be your exhibit. Yeah. And these rules relate to membership in the system and participation by employers we are implementing two acts fifty two in act one or seven and when I say implementing I don't I don't should misunderstand we are in process implementing those acts today they are already enforced and being used in our day to do operations we just work in forming the rules to those acts that the rules read the same way act in their relatively modern changes fifty two regarding how we look at contract days when someone is hard mid year to determine whether not their contributor non contributory then act one of seven which just clarifies the language around the optional participation of some education related organizations that can be part of a trs. Feel their own for clarifying and then one I don't want to spotlock there is include language around member confidentiality. We had language in our rules that did say that member information is confidential it wasn't very clear on how we handle that in terms of working with outside vendors I mean just as an example are actually they study all of our member information regularly in order to make the actual valuations that are required by law so writing some language that makes clear that we can disclose that information to a vendor if there's a confidentiality group in in place and we followed all those requirements but otherwise we do keep our member information confidential. Recognized. Thank you mister chair so my question will start here on page nine and ten well paid towards the bottom of three. Okay so paragraph three there is in rid. Because that would indicate that it is there because of act because of legislative action yes. But I see too. Green words in there which means that substitute change. But not part of the legislative act. And you know one or two words in a paragraph can make a huge difference in our of the bill sponsor sitting here I haven't had chance to study in the who the bill sponsor was on if they considered these words that are being added I don't know if that paragraph is an exact quote from the act but can you enlighten us there sure all addressed there and a mass mislead to find a little more color and detail on this so number one this was a bill that they t rs staff had worked with the member on so this is what part of our package that we had asked to be introduced the addition there is as we were implementing this and we realize there are some situations that they act just doesn't envision an and handside product should be included in the act just for clarity. So we added that phrase or just. It is it's basically just to make sure there's that this language can't be read the credit card or we don't think that the act intended for their to be a cap so the word pro rate is very specific and nature and you know you can divide by days or hours months in and in broad something but I just I mean that's a huge gray area. Alan is leaving provide a little more clearly on this front because this i'm not s worked up on this flight mr white said because I mean as you said prorection is very specific but as we were trying to implement this act and we found that it doesn't work for all circumstances so we just added the word or a just to given some flexibility on treating all our members fairly as we try to implement this well and fairly as the whole thing an issue here because that fairly is being interpreted by somebody. And you know when we deal with law we try to be as far as possible but you know fairness is always in the eye of the beholder when it's being interpreted by somebody and so I just like to know that this bill spotter. It is comfortable with it or not not maybe the sponsor only knows but i'm very uncomfortable with you and this year in the rule based on legislative act and then changing a few words in the body of the act. The. It is I will tell you to want I will commit you out well I did if I hope sponsor was all visible to sponsor and i'll walk through them and if they have any objections or at all that would certainly will will pull this down and make sure that we adjusted as necessary okay well as well it's pretty much in the same area here on page ten halfway down the page paragraph three says the membership again making contributions to the system effective the next july first following the members first year of service. That so if you're hired on july third. And you go to july first you've not completed a year yet. So you could actually end up working almost two years before the paragraph would create contribution by me on page ten this provision this is actually language that we have before and it only imply only applies to members who were incorrectly a reported when they were first hired and also for their first year they're going to be non contributory but then july one since be corrected the area in the air and their continent membership status july on is when they start contributing so even if their first year was a partial year yes okay thank you. This. Yeah. Center chesterfield you're recognized they can ask you I feel like i'm planning on blind here too because sound to payments referring to the green stuff and the data stuff and add all he have any of that here so i'm flying a little and feeling like them you know the left armors is tidy but let me move on because I guess there's not the most unusual thing for me what does it mean when we talk about allowing. These vendors to have access to us as members because it's it's troubling to me because I get information from folks that I don't desire to have information farm because of my membership in various entities including yours so help me understand that a certainly so this would never be a situation i've given to a vendor who'd be reaching out to you for their own business purpose this would purely be for and that the chief example is our actuaries because they in order to do this valuations they have to review all that individual information and when bill provide that to them they also do the calculations if a member wants to purchase service back for that calculation of what we charge that member for that purchase service so the actually is would be never wine number two we may have some rt vendors for example such as example we have a company that we work with for backing of our system they had that information in their possession even though they they're not we're using that for their own purposes or to recharge a year but we should make sure that we have that ability to let them have that for information circus force that we need so that means that we're not going to be on some mealing list because of our membership in eighty rs not if you've if you found someone who contacts you on the best that information we will we will go to port and deal with it with them thank you thank you mister. Sir thank you mister on our hand out page two act twenty twenty three number one or seven. It mentions amending the law to clarify when it educated related agency or of organization becomes a covered. Employer can you do you member who those are refreshed my memory of who those are where they specific wanter was it just a blanket it gets there's well only say in statutors a combination there some for example the architectures association that is listed and statue their others the board can choose to admit based on their application and such as an example or just in the last board meeting the board are great admit it's the architects our association of band and orchestra now goodness arts are bad in orchestra administrative is the band directors in the state they have an association and typically the one or two employees that work for them are former band directors who'd like to build continue earning service and so and the board allowed them to come a member of the system okay and they function. Or they're the recipient of the benefits as say you're average teacher that's been teaching for ten years I mean they they come in. They'd they have to stick with the total number of years just like everybody else in the program yes sir and and for those optional ones in particular that is only applicable to individuals who already have at least five years service in the system so a new employee can't get anything but if you have someone who works for his work for school for twenty years and they're going to work in again this case the the band directors association for the rest their career they still are in service can courier list of those organizations yes the chair would mind and maybe put out told the members of the committee please when do that see who they are that we're added please absolutely. Represent a college you recognized thank you mister chair if we could just quickly go back to page nine it with senator patent was asking about so in addition I guess to talk and with representative natives and sender hammer about this can you tell me what it means to adjust the number of contracted days just conceptually because it sounds straight like. We would be the system would be saying that you work this many days when you actually didn't work as many days like why would we do that and so they're just program sure and this this goes back to how the statutes are built around distinguishing between contributory and noncontributory members as just a very simple raw firm I don't think it's so simplified your teachers and other professional employees are contributory very often you're saying bus drivers capture your workers they are non contributory with the option of becoming contributory. The issue is that the weights tattoos are worth it there is a language that has that to your status at the beginning of school year and how many and how many weeks your contract to work. So if you have someone that's hard mid year that creates an ambiguity with a statue and that's where we have to pro rate or adjust and are practices we're going to get with that school administration and see this person's coming for only twelve weeks of the year because they came in february is this person a teacher who's going to be it up a full time teacher the following year is this person the bus driver who is this so that we can appropriate a probably class father as either contributory or not contributor so it sounds like you would be adjusting based on set of criteria or some information that you'd be getting back it can be based on information we get back from the school and that's and that's huawei we like to have a little bit of flexibility there because we're trying to envision all the possible permutations there but at the end of the day we want to be able to get people into the category they would expect to be in if they were already in that full time position for the whole year my two cents for what it's worth that i'm not the sponsor of the bill but it would be that if we're going to take it away from pro rate which is an objective standard and move it to a just which is subjective we put at least a little bit of a backstop in there to say what it is were being subject to what what are the criteria on which we're going to be subjective. Just interested just my contribution to that launched it. Sir chest field you recognized yes in our pre k program if it is a public school for which they are working are dave members of the retirement system if they are an employee of this public school district yes but if they are working for a private entity they cannot be under current law thank you so much. Okay what's pull this one. Separate and the reason I was saying that utterly it might be wise because i'm just looking the committee didn't have the benefit of the color coding and I think that's helpful on this. Let's go on in look at the others. And because some of our pretty straight forward. But maybe we could get. This out to the committee members with the color coding. And because this seems to have a lot more to it with different. Aspects to it certainly and then get the list out that. Senator hammer was requesting. And. Maybe pull this one from the batch. That we can but it just like to be fair to the committee. Charlie cocher you okay. Alright let's proceed to. Number eleven seven k. That. Are at this next on him these are a mimus to rule seven this is going to be exhibit c eleven in your packet. So in the changes this rule we are in for me act sixty four around definitions and procedures for outsourcing this were district is hiring an outside in a date perform functions that historically were performed by employees the district were also changed definitions run part time specialized support positions that's referring to things like those drivers kept here workers individuals who are permanent employees of the district but may not be working forty hours a week and just dresses how their time is counted in the system there's some language around restricting members from using service credit approached in the contract biote before the employment contract will naturally terminated and then we have some language it's cleaning up the employer requirement to submit reports and contributions like tronically and then also we've moved in some language from some the other rules around overpayments because makes more sense for it to be in this rule. Thank you so. This is something i'm not for move with but on page two paragraph three in the middle of the page you you mention that has do with the under the future service credit. This is indicated to be a substitute of change. It's not required by the legislation and i'd like either expound on on this paragraph especially the or disability retirement is added because that's indicated to be added due to public comment. And. Whatever I just don't have a clear understanding what we're doing here certainly. Looking for i'm sorry which page it's page two in the middle of the page program three gatch. Or may double check one thing with my council here. Yeah. Yeah. Okay so that the language in general across that under the future service credit that is an issue that was presented to our board last year I would be an earlier last year there is a case that came up where our existing policy was ambiguous the board adopted a resolution said this is your policy going forward for how we had early situations and so this language is incorporating what the board had said and that resolution for that specific case more is making that the general rule. They the case they were addressed at the time was one there was based on age and service retirement based on a car minute we recognized a similar situation could arrive and disability retirement in spash while we added the disbuilder traveled in there later we shall make sure that that is clear that rule plos on both sides so I guess the addition of the disability retirement is what raises the red flag with me because this paragraph says shall not and it seems to have to do with retiring under age. Well this ability is out going to force you to retire under age it in will and that's it's it's not limiting when you can retire when you can access disability interest what is the same and this this primarily applies would apply to superintendents. If you have a superintendent who has so five year contract and the school war decision to dismiss that you superintended in your one. There have been occasions and they had the option of purchasing service for that superintendent for the remaining four years the contract and so this language saying is that when that happens the superintendent can invoke those four years at the beginning they can only invoke them after they would have otherwise earned those years for that well that that that's why I was that's what parked my attention was it seemed to be. Contradictory to say you couldn't retire under age and then this bill will be included right yeah I just got it if they already had twenty eight years they could retire normally if they if their disabled being silver tower is just they'll be based on the years they've actually accrued and been through and they can't tack on those additional years when they haven't actually gone to that time okay thank you. You're not senator davis okay. You recognize representative gasoline thank you mister chair and i'm not on the committee but I appreciate you give me an opportunity to ask question. So looks like rule eleven. Somewhere concerned survivors and domestic relations orders. And so I just wanted to make sure that there's not anything in rule eleven or in any of these other. Proposed rules that affect quadros. Oh we're not on eleven now we're on seven and a half exhibit eleven at that we were on rule that you are generally that fifteen but answer question there are some changes around the quarters let me see here. Sure if your call is we go ahead and address that and. If you'd like to that's fine up start a problem when we go ahead and put this pull this up. So for rule eleven it of course implements a couple of x the. Obviously was going to walk through those changes that remain related cartoons. So our amendments to quadro's basically says that it explains when the system is going to accept the quiet row and quarter has to comply with the laws rules applicable that a system and has to be in accordance with the etro's model required that has been approved by legislative council. Then. We have some requirements in there about notifying an alternate per member when the system has approved acquired or when the system is not going to approve required so that they are aware. Okay. It lightly explained what that is qualified domestic relation order when you have someone whose member of the system they get divorced very often there'll be an order by the court that defines how the retirement has sits are treated between the member and their former spouse are not all standard that we have a standard quarter order that we ask folks to use that something that all changes for that have to go for legislative council I wish that because we actually brought it to some change to religiously council a few months back. So this is. Yeah. Yes qualify domestic relations orders cute cutio sorry if I can qualify domestic relations orders. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah just so they everybody knows this is not we're not continuing on the role seven here were on ruled fifteen so i'm so i'm so sorry I had I had rule it at rule rule eleven and exhibit eleven mixed up I gotcha maple and so i've been like one more question go gotten this all about i'm sorry so based on the changes that I heard you are now to me it sounds like to me that's pretty standard stop you're still going to have the form you have the ability to reject the form if it doesn't comply with the way that you've told them to prepare the order yes you are going to notify the people affected. If there is a qualified domestic relations order submitted that's some what it would change it sounds like is there anything generally because what was brought to my attention is that several maybe it was a week so just a couple years ago. When laughing was before this committee they had said that they were just not going to accept quadrus anymore because it just takes up a lot of time. And and I don't think that that doesn't sound like that's really top of recommended changes that you're proposing no nest or nothing like that okay all right thank you very much sorry about that mister. I do expect you to stay for rule fifteen okay does ebay have any other questions on rule seven exhibit c eleven. Okay let's move on to the next one. Thank you miss german this is rural eight or sir exhibit c twelve. And this relates to service credit that can be available for individuals either free or purchased in addition to the service credit they earn by working in a school this is implementing several acts there acts fifty five sixty nine one or seven one twenty five. And these are making I would say rotally smaller changes clarifying language around how the process works and also how refunds can be obtained if you purchase a credit but then end up not using it and want to get that amount refunded back the one the biggest change of all those outsides act on twenty five that's legislating your pass to allow for teachers to purchase service credit for a gap here so if they are in the system and let's say they leave for three or four years and work in a provisional for example and then come back to a public school they can purchase that time back in the system for those that those gap years they had while they route. In there a few other changes in this rule. We discussed earlier the language about restricting members from museum that service credit credit that's purchased in a settlement or a buyer that has to be used when it naturally would occurred rather than upfront and then cleaning up some language related to electronic smissing reports and around the reports and contributions. We have answering questions on their piece. Senator hammer you're recognized as shared refresh my memory on the purchase back the ability to purchase back time. Does the department finance it or is the employee expected to pick it all up at one block so that the employee picks that up and out they can pay it out but they do not receive it until it's been fully paid out. Say that he answer that the the employee pays it they can we allow them to pay it out over time but they do not receive that credit until they fully paid the amount okay and does the department charge interest on the buy backers are just straight up dollar for dollar credit. Yet no interest is just oh i'm i'm sorry I misunderstood your questions if they if they bart back over time we don't charge them additional interest on it but what they're purchasing the method purchasing the actuaries calculate that and there is an interest component to that because the actuaries figuring out what they were contributed in those years if they had been working at how much that would have earned in interest for the system in the time since they and then that's what that how that amounts calculated so it's not a negative effect to the system. Career calculating interest so that they they pay what they would have yes okay where they they pay what the system would have had if they had paid at that time and their responsible to pay that in addition to the actual buyer back times that correct the answer yesterday alright thank you. Represent a fight you're recognized thank you mr chair I was just wondering how many years does that someone have to make that decision that they want to buy back the years that they were out of the system they can they can choose to barback at any point up until they retire the the differences the longer they wait the larger that amounts going to be because again they they best have to make the system where we would have been if they paid it originally so if if you're waiting twenty years you're gonna pay a lot more than if you've done it a year at the fact makes sense thanks. Representative where you recognized usually thank you mission give you a scenario list you say that she had a school teacher and after fifteen years she just brought for she was error he dropped where he was at and they went over into another job but they came back after say five years and warned to go back in the decision where they are automatically be credited with a sixteen years of that penalty yes yeah once once they earn the years from work in the system that is there's from here on out and yeah they because we work five years and never come back into a public school again and still collect monthly benefits when you recharge sixty based on those five years. Yeah. All right no other questions let's move on to the next. All right this is our rule none there's to be your exhibit in this is implementing three different acts the first one released anthous backing rules and explain what that is. There are rules in place and statutes that if an individual get a substantial pay raise in a year. That depend on how much that is that may be limited and how that applies to their salary calculation for calculator there are tower benefits so in other words you can't go get a twenty percent pay raise the year for your tire in the search benefits go by twenty percent it has to be phased here and so there's much less than made some tankering around the edges of how that works and so we've implemented that act implemented a act on seven which clear fos language around the deadlines uh doesn't changing thing in practice for members out I would say but it does clean up that language act on seventy is making some modern changes around how we handle a new options and how beneficiaries are designated we've moved into the language from rules seven into this rule and then just general clean up on other language rate beneficiaries were retirement eligibility. So you're recognized thank you someone page one where we're dealing with definitions and at the top it says is used in this rule so these definitions are confined strictly to this rule yet when my concern is with number five the dependent child definition. In five c it says has been a judged physically or mentally incapacitated I don't know if that's general terminology that's used all the time in this field but to me. The question arises on what level of education are guardian chaper in capacitated to me would say okay that's like a hundred percent right that that languages from a statute I believe that's the same language in the statute that's why we use it here and what we're looking for as a court order that says that in that that. Adult child is it compassinated you may be less than detailed so I can form conforms the other areas of the statute the same thank you. Sir chest field you recognized thank you miss chair and I understand we were talking about the spiking thing we've disgusted another time. But let me let me be clear if I were class from teacher and I became an administrator. That means i'm probably going to get a twenty percent increase in my south would that one year count toward my three highest years of my firefights whichever it is now if if you were promoted the administrator for one year and that's your house seller ever in the new tower. That that year will be counted in your calculation but it may be limited on how much of it how much of that increase is includes one determine that there's a formula that set out in the rule for how that's how this determined so I went from fifty thousand two hundred thousand dollars increase. I might get credit for what like eighty thousand hours a formula work. I'm a memory is looking here in and tell you for sure my memory is it's going to run around twenty percent so it may be that out that fifty thousand hundred thousand if you do one year it's going to get you to seventy thousand okay with you a second year and go how and on until what once that's you got five years worth the nets your new so we're now from three to five again right we're five years ago yes thank god I wasn't around. Any other questions. All right let's move on to the next one okay this is level of our rule to know this is your exhibit c fourteen and this makes just a hample of changes around the t drop program teacher off their teacher deferred or character option program this is a program where teachers can continue to work but they can begin collecting article benefits and how those benefits are crew in an account so that when they finally do retire they have a nest deg that they can access that at this at that point there benefit mouse frozen so we're not incurring any additional liability for the continues they continue to work but this is an an option in the city for teachers to remain in the classroom and continue teaching even though they could otherwise were target. Four clarification for the committee purposes a teacher can contribute to retirement for twenty eight years. They can tea drop for ten years. The twenty eight years is what they get paid on as far as a retirement pay correct the ten years they can take his lump sum or they can get it as an annuity yes okay they take a lot of or like and rolled over to another automated account as well if they like okay yeah idiots yes right. They all get a certain little made exclude them I just I know for teachers and particular keeping teachers as struggle right now so. The. Okay any other questions on that one. Not just move on to the next one or it's next one is rule eleven or your exhibit see fifteen which we are asked earlier in response rooms and gas voice question and I believe we walk through all of the. And we element mentioned one of their adam in this road had not mentioned earlier we there is a situation we run into an and this is why every time I speak to members a retirees I emphasise to them if you have a life change if you a marriage divorce birth or death of a child a change in beneficiary to call us because all who often we see situations where a member has named a spouse as their beneficiary. They divorce the memory marries but never changes the beneficiary and that may were passes and we have a new water and old wife competing for benefits that's not the best position to be so we we've added some language that the change that uh to make sure that we're not going to in the situation or where we have to double pay both spouses and we're putting out with actually member if they if they premary divorce they've got a let us know if they want to do something different if they won't keep that old spouse as they're beneficiary they have to let us know we have any questions on that go right ahead okay up whiteway. So i've got one thing is all i've got your recognized. So on the survivor of benefits. Is there a time limit so. I get divorced right then I get married and in this less than a year I identify my new spouse. And I pass away is the spouse of the half of less than a year. Is there any time limit I guess attached to the does that make sense. Olives leo addressed them. I'm just double checking myself just been with me. You would have to be married to you would have to have been married here smart spouse for at least two years immediately proceeding your okay thank you jennifer for committee purposes. So in the available that represent richardson just gave you. He married someone new. He changes the beneficiary. It would not revert to the. Ex wife would go. I'm asking. Or would it go to children or someone else so. Representative is a act of member of the system he gets married he hasn't been married to his new spouse for two years before his day and but he has changed his beneficiary designation correct in that situation what would happen is um the former spouse but not get anything but his estate would be paid out any residue. Thank you and his if you have any dependent children they would get a survivor renewing still. The. The the children the children were getting a new idea but the surviving spouse because they were not married for two years immediately proceeding your death would not be eligible for a survivor survivor benefits would you say. If you're his former spouse in that situation if he's changes beneficiary designation you do not get anything to move on to senator hammer real quickly okay all right II get you in the in the queue yes ma'am you're coming up so to have a go ahead would you clarify did you say would you say about two years I didn't quite catch which you said about two years many go if I heard that right it's two years immediately proceeding the death a member so if the if the member remains but then but they die within a year then that knew that new spouse is not else to receive benefits because they are not been married for at least two years okay that's in that isn't statue the two so downslain county that's got the name of eighteen minute woman would marry two that she married eighteen different men so my question is how did we how did we come up with two years or what's the ratio now behind. Two years that I mean that's that's what's in the statute now acking I can't speak to what the rationale was. Yeah. Then then then they have married oh despite this death bed marriages. Yeah. This. But but two years that's just that's just a that is the arbitrary number. So in it in a. And our search say about some of the sweeps in our sweep stand to take the money at the at the death bed. But what what's it got to do with. Which two years because. That that's why i'm trying to get my mind wide y two years why not three mods or something like that if or judge they're going be left up to us there's very rational i'm sorry. Right it's it may not be the same for the other systems but just best rest was been written in our statute. Is it that way for the other system is a two year broad the other system. So I need to marry somebody in your retirement shows them not just one is what okay well will have a conversation thank you in this this is the first time that's come up we we actually if I remember correctly state police had an issue and I think the system if I am not. Mistaken made an exception it was like a year and. Four or five months or something but. And maybe that's why we changed okay. Okay senator chesterfield thank you your recognized thank you if in the divorced decorate it is stated. Then i'm to get that money. As the former wife. Would they take precedence over what is in statute right now. If it would not we would follow it it would not unless there's a qualified domestic relations order that's the only way that you would be able to access a member's benefits through the system so explained to me the difference. So because. Because or qualified domestic relations orders have to have certain items in them and we are. The way we distribute benefits is directly tied to our status as a qualify plan under federal we have to control how these benefits are distributed what we can offer under the plan so. A court may not necessarily factor that in when issuing a divorce decree which is why we require a qualified domestic relations order so that we can set parameters around how you can reach system a members of benefits in the system and how we can distribute those benefits okay. So for example if um amb get divorced and b once fifty percent of a benefits in the system. They would enter a qualified they would enter they would prepare a qualified domestic relations order and I qualify domestic relations order provides language to interest back. It's very interesting I suggest the child change that you. Representative ray you're recognized thank you mister chairman my question was going to be about the other systems and what that that window of time that time frame for eligibility of survivors benefits were i'm not on the committee but is it is there a way we could get a list from all the systems of what they're what their number is because I remember being contacted by a constitution at one time where this. Came in to play they had been married to the the person in question for eight or nine minutes and I missed the right cut off and it was I remember it being a really tragic situation and I just for consideration of future changes they would be good information about from old very systems and I can mention romance so apers is one year and a half statements. But our eight appears and state police are six months and then lofty is one year. And and then ashers is one year. What was the last one ashers how department is one year. It's it's it's where the outlaw we will lease have a conversation about that for our legislative package for this next session. Representative guess where you recognized thank you mister chairman and I had to step out just briefly so you probably. Covered dears and I may have missed an apologies but I do. Have a lot of friends and legal community that do this kind of work and you know they they are instrument to know what kind of changes are being made to the qualified domestic relations orders that would affect. Teacher retirement so can you just summarise again briefly. The changes with regard to qualified domestic relations orders sure and let me then I don't have the colored sheet so II would make it probably easier if I had to apologize I don't know that's perfectly finally to turn over to those pages. Okay and I will say on the front end the changes that we made around the fight missing relations orders don't leave any of those at legislative changes the other only change that we've made recommend the borders were gone through this so see here sleers some language been modified around the system notifying a member if we determine that the qdro is does not comply code so will have to give them that notice. The. There is language that around what what it takes for a query to be accepted and we made my clear has to comply with arkansas code with our rules with our model order and then any other applicable lies because we know that's better in your section of r s requirements state requirements and as as you know. And then the next page i'm looking at page twelve in page thirteen of the market. The next one which adds some language that if there's an alternate payee that's been named and they they do not update their address with us and their address changes that weed it we are not obligated to do extraordinary research to try and find their new address we're saying that the obligations on the member and on that payee to keep us updated their address information. And there's some clarifying language on the qdro's orange saying that these providers supply the q r o's that are accepted by the system. And then that a set of making clear that we do not make restitution when we if we distribute amounts for to it to qdrow and then there's a court order that voids that we are not responsible for repaying that money from before when the court order court well returned that qudio. Yeah. And so there's some similar language there around repayments after a qdro has been overturned and then language around how to handle when a member cancels their retirement and how that's handled in connection to qdr. Yeah. Appalling that walks through everything okay and all of that is this is all new rule hence proposed right it's it is less much was is there's forms of the language in the rule but we have rewritten it to make a more clear and to cover some of these gaps. Gotcha alright thank you very much. We all good on this one guys. Okay to move on to the next the next one is AR rule twelve dash one this is your exhibit c sixteen on this one all we've done is reformative to reflect that code of arkansas rules and then just changing the number to rule number twelve. I don't see any questions all right was move on to the next one are rule thirteen dash one this is your exhibit c seventeen. This is we all done is we take all the language in the different rules about the different ways that a member can appeal or get a decision reconsidered we combine them all into this one rule so there's just one place for members to look at find interest questions around that we've also made this son that was implied and was assumed early but we made explicit that only the board can extend an appeal deadline as director do not have that authority. And that we've also made explicit that oz director of authority to informally resolve claims up to five thousand dollars that's been the worst practice but a situation come up earlier we start looking and the labels ran biggest about around that source making that explicit even though that's the been the practice in the past. So to repay you recognized thank you mister chair so can you just kind of elaborate on I guess it'd be mostly page twelve but it seems that we are. Are denying a right of appeal is that something new or something just clarification but. On page twelve it's subdivision see I guess. C would be appealing the committee he's recommendation but. It seems that we're denying a right of appeal there okay okay and that relates to what's called the manifest in justice process will get slew a background on that cause we have a rule on that here in a moment the benefits and just process is it serving statute essentially gives the director in the board the ability to address extraordinary situations in provide a relief to member where it's going by the strict letter to the law they can't get a relief in order to avoid a manifest injustice that's where the name come from what that is saying the way we the process works is we have a staff committee that they review those applications in the staff makes a recommendation to me what does the same as that when that staff makes a recommendation the member can't use that to generate an appeal that they're there basis for any appeal or future action is based on my decision as director not what the step is so they do have a right of appeal when there there's a decision made that effects on. They can't appeal my decision to the board okay thank you you're recognized on that group of them rules that you combined into one was that driven by legislative. A bill legislation by your thousand buyers just it was is very confusing for members having looked at multiple rurals to found how to dress something they weren't satisfied is we're trying to make a simpler for the members of put it all in one place and that that portion about the appeals taking the authority away from you was that in legislation or was that oriented in language it was already interpreted that way in the language and we're just making the explicit. Can you think of any time that it might be beneficial for you to have that maybe if somebody's caught in a time crunch in the appeal process would lapse because the board is maybe not going to meet and take up the matter and there'd be a window where you need that discretion in order to benefit the member. I can't think of a situation because it would only arise once the appeal deadline actually had lapsed and at that point I mean even if I had that authority. I'm a weak and call a special board meeting within a matter of a day or two and I can't think the situation where a lapse of a day or two is going to make a meaningful difference there and how long is the appeal from the time what hump which watch him our return they have to make the appeal and so that if that time runs out they will have missed it how long is it. The thirty days. How often subord me they have far regular meetings a year but we usually have at least two three special meetings in a year and they and there have been times we've had a call special meetings fairly quickly so that's and they can be done okay less than did you do you know such you ben in your position proceeding new do you know of an occasion where a member was not able to continue the appeal because they missed that window now okay thank you. I see no other questions on this will move on to. Item number eighteen rule fourteen point one. They were chairman this is a rule of fourteen dash one which is your exhibit c eighteen this is another one where we're not making any session of changes we're just reformating it to the the new code of archaeoles format. And rename it to rule fourteen. No questions alright move on to item number eighteen. And this year item eighteen c believe that was automated this is tried in that team please and this is the same explanation there's no substantive change here we're just reformating to the new code of artists our rules format. All right any questions. All right about number twenty and i'm sorry apologize. Representative college you are recognized thank you and it's not specific to this but i'm curious with the new formatting requirements I guess question for the chair are we going to have the other systems come in and do similar rewrites of their rules. I will say that it's it's a various major agency and there are some that we handle other ways it's just since we had other changes to make the same time that's what makes this rested at all sure that makes sense just was curious thank you. All right. So I will read a move on to see twenty. Okay this is our real sixteen year exhibition twenty same song third verse there no substantive changes here were just changing the formatting. Questions. All right let's move to the last one then and rule sending what dash one this is some language damage earlier we had moved into that other rule and since we moved it this is no longer needed any sort of repealing this rule. Questions. All right so if you guys will stay there I think what we need to do if it places the committee is to paul number tn which is rule six of us raymond array if he would send that out to all the committee members. When you pull it up on. The when he sent it out and it's on the system that he sends it will have the color coding. Am with an explanation of what the different colours mean. So read that and then we will put that on the agenda for our next meeting but at this meeting I would entertain emotion to approve items one through twenty one with the exception of item ten. Is there. Okay so i've got a motion in the second discussion all those in favor say I oppose same sign alright motion carries. Thing was chairman miss chairman members thank you I know this was AAA slog would appreciate you you've gone through this with us thank you thanks so much about that alright. At this time I would ask. Representative period please come to the table. We have a consideration for adoption of an interim study proposal at is exhibit the. You would introduce yourself thank miss chairman representative mark perry district sixty six you are recognized thank you chairman members of garay interim study proposal that we've been working on since last session one of the senator chesterfield actually asked why the apers does not offer able to a death benefit to its member so some of the other plans do in what we're gonna do is look at the feasibility in look at some of the options to do that and that's what they say is long with the possibly even current some of the unfunded liabilities so. You have a question alright. Senator chesterfield you recognized well I was going to make a motion there is a question. Thank you mister chair representative I think it's it's a great thing we need to study for sure I was wondering if you had any. Thoughts on. On what we're were we looking for the to provide funding resource or established funding. Do you have a direction there is it just basically. Look everywhere well what's worth it's a good question the senator payment will look at all options you know there's there's other plans in other states or they do something similar to this you know this is karama field of expertise that I work in an research than to see what actions you can use besides using your general revenue or use an assets of the plane though for when you said there are other states it used this I guess i'm missing what is that this a death benefit for life internet so I was going into that question down towards the bottom of this where it talks about the death benefit could bolster the financial well further system and reduce the state and founded liability that is the focus of the study I guess there correct not looking for other funding sources yep we'll look at I mean we're going we're going to explore all options found out what is the most feasible to do so how does the death benefit reduce our own funded liability. Well to see if we can discover that in the in the state so right now it it truly is just looking for it you get it thank you appreciate your mistreater. Any other questions. Alright. The. I'll recognize you this time. The. All right. You can speak to it it was a concern that you. The architecture. The. It's a morris They have some. Looking at. It's worthwhile. Yeah. You recognize so payton so said or chester free allow agreed completely II second the motion that we study this i'm just trying to get in my head how providing the death benefit becomes profitable in a way to. Cover one thundered liabilities that would alluding me unless we're going to be making a profit somehow offer this death benefit I don't see how it bolsters the financial system it may be to read anything benefit I must spend the money which I always helps the state they will be hopefully be on the uncover that okay thank you thank you mister chair. Alright so we have a motion in a second do we have any discussion. All those in favor say i. In the opposed same sign. All right motion carries war put this into an interim study thank you representative is there anything else to come before the committee. If not thank you for being here we are returned.