Joint Budget Committee - Pre-Fiscal Session Budget Hearings

You want budget started. Called it to order first more than agenda we have a letter. Mister michigan will talk about this letter disregurged travel experience yes sir this is item b one in your packet this is a letter from the auditor of state this is to request additional appropriation in the general appropriation bill. This chairman goed reminder about the general appropriation bill that is the bill by constitution we have to pass before we pass anything else in the physical session and regular sessions this letter asked to amend that to increase the appropriation in the travel expense line item for the district judges from sixty five thousand eighty thousand. And it adds to a special language to make it clear that there they require receipt to be submitted within sixty days after the expense so they can pay those this and would you have represented from the auditors saying he was chairman if you'll identify yourself and explain what we're doing here jason brady deputy auditor auditor of state's office so as many of you may or may not know the auditor's office administers and I use that word and quotation and ministers the district judge travel expense reimbursement fine so basically is judges district judges have to travel without within their your sticks in the area here cases we get the expenses and so on as as it was said right now the appropriation level was sixty five thousand last physical year they were at sixty eight thinking of inflation and everything else we are requesting on their behalf a bump up in the budget to eighty thousand and also one of the other things you'll notice is that we are asking that they have to turning receipts within sixty days of an expenditure if you may or may not know there's AOP m requires a state employees to turn into forty five days so again this would help us have poorly a better gauge of where the expenses go throughout the fiscal year and that's why we're asking this request and we've heard no opposition to that request mister chairman reading any any questions from any members. Thank you. We need a motion to adopt a letter from auditor have a motion in a second any discussion all in favor sar in your pose letters adopted mistransition. Mr chairman DHS is up next and they have a power point to reset. Miss. The. Good morning ladies if your old identify yourselves and then whoever's going to present it may start. Good morning christie pattenham secretary department of human services. Good morning jane at me and we secretary of for programs and state medicaid director. Good morning mr ubank's deputy secretary for operations and budget and also intermcfo. And brene I could deputy cfo and inner on budget direct you're free to present your powerpoint. Thank you chair we wanted to go through just a general overview of the twenty twenty four prefers school budget information from department human services. Um stop yet members also you have a paper copy of it on the bottom of your agenda so more long better on the screen i'm sorry go ahead it's okay thank you. Just want to go over a a reminder of the general overview of department of human services divisions we are the largest agency I know you will need no reminders about that we have our division of aging adult and behavioral health services under which we have both aging an adult services and substance abuse mental health services those two emphasis areas broken out at this point we have dcfs division of children and family services dco division of county operations DDS division of developmental disability services dms division of medical services out debt square dps qa division of provider services and quality assurance and DYS division of youth services we also have dhs shared services as you will remember dhs under went but some of the transformation where we consolidated shared services into one area to serve all divisions and a just a reminder that division of child car and early childhood education moved to arkansas apartment of education under the learns act so they have transferred out. Just an overview of the dhs budget and we do have a total funded budget of just over eleven billion dollars annually of that just over eight billion is federal funds or seventydashthree percent state general revenue is approximately one point eight billion or seventeen percent and other revenue is one point one billion ten percent. This is a breakdown of what our state general revenue allocation goes to uh again the total sher allocation of one point eight billion just over one point eight billion is divided up between our divisions as you see on the slide I won't read it out to you but happy to come back to that for any questions and you can see that the largest portion of the budget does go to the division of medical services where a medicaid budget lives. So in the dhs budget this year you only seen two requested changes from the last by annual budget those two changes are a direct result of legislative action that happened during the twenty twenty three regular session and that was the the two requests are six hundred thousand dollars in state general revenue to support the federally required state match for our placement and residential licensing unit which was retained by dhs under the learns act everything else transferred over to the arkansas department of education the second request is a three point five million million dollars in state our revenue that shifted from commerce dws to dhs to support the state match for the tan of program which is now with DHS so those are the only two changes that you will see in the in this budget request. Just an overview of dhs personnel to give you an idea of the number of positions we currently have versus are unauthorized in budgeted positions we currently have six thousand five hundred eighteen filled positions and the distribution you can see the largest distribution is between a developmental disability services division of county operations and a division of children and family services with the the remainder remaining approximately quarter of positions spread out rethrough the remaining divisions. And that concludes the introduction overview for department of human services. Members we have from questions. Sure just feel you recognize for equation yes thank you mister cheering good morning mad secretary and others who are here thank you for your work I am concerned is always about the turnover reader DHS because in the past it has been. Reader large spotted this way what are we looking at in the weight of maintaining our workers. So we we actually in I won't say all divisions but am some divisions and in particular dcfs over the past year we have seen an actual decline in turnover we have worked on some policies to retain staff including the families at work policy where we have individuals who are able to bring their information to work for the first six months or in some circumstances bring their children to work when there's a school closure we've also implemented remote work policies and alternate scheduling which is a four ten day work for ten hour work day schedule so we have seen some gradual improvement in our retention rates and art our turnover has declined slightly would you tell me then because at one point it got to be fifty six percent turnover then it was forty percent what is the percentage now in the h we can get that specific number for you and I think I have it in my binder but it'll take me a minute to find it thank you yes because there is a continue a continued area of concern for me because of the largeness of the agency and the importance of the agency because if we cannot get those individuals working there yeah in in a larger capacity than that we're we're going to have to cut back on on the services that you provide you also know that my concern is about the tanner for moneys what have we done to mitigate that situation so there were able now to should be more proactive is forced chances concerned are that english. So with with the tan of money and i'm sure we'll get into more detail about that through the budget discussions but with the tanner funding we got to a point where we understood exactly where we are with their current your grants were in the process of beginning notification of where those grants stand for the next fiscal year and then we will be working with stakeholders and with our team and with legislature in the governor's office to make sure that we are strategically investing tanner in the areas that support the four pillars and last but certainly not least how are we fee arkansas you've been out assessment treatment centers and other centers that deal with our juvenile group of children who are incarcerated. I'm sorry what's the specific question around the specific question is what are the numbers now or we are we having more students are more children there than we really should have I have the numbers gone down that specifically yes ma'am we can we have had an increase in commitments as you're aware over the past year we have been working with the juvenile judges very closely to implement some some changes in our discharge and release policy we have just implemented that with the judges as of last week I think we had our last discussion with them last week and we are looking to see what that does to impact our numbers but we are looking at first time commitments having a lesser time commitment but we also have reopened another facility to try to distribute younger populations in a different location and we do expect to be able to report back on what changes have right I thank you thank you made secretary for always taking my call yes me. Representative lunchtime you recognize for a question thank you i'm over here sorry out of the total number of authorized as eight thousand two hundred and thirty one and filled a six thousand eighteen so you have seventeen thirteen positions open correct. Yes and that is a combination of budgeted and unbudgeted budgeted in on budget would it be possible if you just since those are so difficult to fill take some of that money or have that money and use that to give dhs for employees an increase in their wages so that they we would have less turnover is their flexibility in the budget to do that if we're not filling all the positions but at least take care of the ones that are there and slow down the turnover so I will I will look to misty. The first part that that question i'll answer with you know we are working at a state level on on some of the things that you saw announced yesterday with the governor's announcement on on things that she's working with the legislature to implement some increases in compensation and really to address the pay plan and classification system. And the other part of the question is you know we are working on some some separate items that are outside of making any changes to the people in a classification we are working on a pay planning improvement for our nursing staff or direct care nursing staff so we are taking within our current budgeted dollars we are taking action on specific areas where we have the highest rate of turnover or the highest need okay thank you and one follow up question how far is the docket backed up with judges in courts. With dhs working with families oh i'm afraid i'm i'm not able to answer that but we can get you some information on on general how far that dark it is backed up not due to ya but due to judge is not working past one or two o'clock in the afternoon and duck it's being backed up we're getting complaints in northwest arkansas about that okay we will follow up on that thank you yes ma'am. Yeah. The. Object wouldn't. We are reckon out thank you mister german. Oh new page you have eighty two hundred thirty one authorized usually that you have sixty five hundred eighteen field of those letter but it is. How many of those are over two years they can be here for two years or more. I certainly can get you the exact number on that but we've been working diligently with opm to be worse answered to the act that was previously passed and we've been turning in positions regularly that are passed the two year film. Could you give me the dollar a mail then there are a bacon over two years old budgeting. Yes I will get you there information thank you thank you mister chairman. Representative springer you're recognized good morning thank you mister chair thank you secretary of being here today as you know I serve on them agent then children family services committee and in doing those meetings I have talked about turnover reason the plan and i'm happy to hear that you've indicated that those things are looking better is that plan in writing because I have previously asked whether or not I was assured if there was something going to be developed to address those things that you've talked about and i'm out I like I like what i've heard so far so I am just wondering is that something that's guiding you have something in writing the scanning you ought to address the concerns that were brought up back to seller to check to feel we we do have the policies put in writing about sent the remote work of the policies I referenced we do have them in writing and we're glad to share those with you okay i've just want to make sure that the employees understand there because those that's where it lies that they understand that they can do those sort of things to make them feel better about their jobs sold the question is whether not they understand what's available to them in order to make the workplace better regards the turn off rate has to you start with the employee to make them understand what it is this taking place in what's expected of so I guess i'm just saying communication to them as to what you all have in place so that they can understand it would probably make them feel better about the workplace that the rent at this point yes we have communicated that out to all staff we've done an at several different online meetings about it and supervisors have the information as well I won't pretend that weren't you know not too large that we can improve our communications but we have made a significant attempt through our human resources office of as well as our county administrators and our division directors have made a concerted effort to make sure that employees understand what the new policies are in with it and how that they can take them up on it average so I guess go ahead and send their till so I can see what you have thank. Repetitive jay richardson you're recommended. Thank you mister chair unpage three it looks like a two questions actually so. It looks like we take a significant amount of federal phones rate seventy three percent is is that average amongst other states do we that percentage. Do you know. I mean I would hesitate to to say it's average among states there are number of states that do have a significant amount of federal funding depending on you know what they're state to demographics look like him and what their profiles look like as far as taking in different federal programs you know medicaid is different in every state so the medicaid budget fluctuates greatly but you know that is not I want to it's a typical for that amount of funding to be a state budget for human services okay in my second question is is could you can give me an idea of what is the other revenue that ten percent that. This there any can you kind of give me an idea of what that is. I'm gonna ask deputy secretaries to respond to that it is it is grants but there are other specific funding areas that they know better than I do that's correct so we were see various other funds some of those in the medicaid space for instance or and provider fees we have provider fees in other spaces due to loss inter and certification we have special language that allows timber fees for instance in our DDS space and so depending on the individual division budget and special language and other fees can be from a mirrored sources and we also receive either phones from participation in like federal demonstration activity so we've done that in our dcfs space so our federal partners have pit out instead of programs or a demonstrations and one we participate in that and we show good results we sometimes are received in center payment so that can also be considered other funding even though it's from a federal source could. Okay thank you. Repeated of jack ladiem and you're recognized thank you mister chairman i'm over here. Just a i'm curious on page four. The patch aren't there it shows that the division of medical services looks like it takes about seventy five percent of that of those phones and then if you look at page six. Only utilizes one percent of the labor force. Why is that such a difference. Good morning sir yes that is true dms takes the bulk of the general revenue to match with the federal funds to pay out to all the providers so that is where we run mmis program to pay the claims that are filed every week for medicaid and that is done through through a contractor and employees so most letters external spending its external spending to claim services throughout the state yesterday they. I remember seeing no other questions we are excused appreciate all coming forward will have miss walls come up. When we need to make groom for relief one so. The. Yeah. Yeah. Where we're going to be in this big bander certainly so thank you mister chair my name is lia the walls and the bureau of legislative research yes mayor is that that had I did one thing a more stop you I forget their chest field but get me so check will you recognize for personal point thank you so much for my point of first improvement is your ladies and general and let us wish you happy birthday to senator jane scott revenues guarding more so saying or you know all right ms walls will get back to business now thank you mister chair my name is lyla walls and book the bureau of legislative research okay we're going to start on page fifty three but I do have something that i'd like to reiterate that the department talked about as a result of act two thirty seven which is the learns act there are changes to multiple divisions and DHS along with the elimination of the division of child care and early childhood education this division was transferred to the department of education and become the office of early children for historical completeness the appropriations that were included in the fiscal year twenty four appropriation at. For the division of child currently childhood education are included in your manual on pages four thirty seven or four fifty five i'm not going to talk about them but they are there if you would like to see them there are corresponding appropriations that will appear in a new bill for the department of education during the fiscal session changes due to program transfers will be noted as we encounter them. Now i'm page fifty three are the four appropriations for the shared services and if you'll move to the farthest right to call them to the executive recommendation you'll see that their total fiscal year twenty five request is for fifty four point three million dollars in this includes three new appropriations and two hundred and twenty two new positions that are being resolved requested as a result of program transfers in acts passed during the regular session if you'll turn the page to pages fifty four and fifty five this is for the new placement and residential licensing unit which is tasked with inforcing the child welfare licensing act and its duties include inspecting and monitoring residential facilities and placement agencies that how's replaced faster children and it works closely with the division of children and family services it spended with federal phones and various programs support in the form of inner agency transfers this unit was a former part of the division of child current early childhood education it was carved out in section seventy one of that two thirty seven to remain within the department of human services. In the executive recommendation is for a one point one eight million dollars in total appropriation and seventeen positions and this includes approximately a million dollars in salary and matching and one hundred and thirty one hundred eighty thousand dollars combined and operating expenses and conference fees and travel. Now if you'll turn the page with me to the next page this is the tanner block grant paying appropriation this appropriation was transferred from the department of commerce division of work for services as a result of act eight thirty two this appropriation and its positions are administered the transitional employment assistance and work pays programs and are offended with general and federal revenues the executive recommendation for this is for two hundred and five positions and a single line item appropriation of approximately fifty two point seven million dollars and if you'll turn one more page with me to pay just fifty eight and fifty nine this is the individual account program appropriation it's part of the tan of program and was also transferred from the department of commerce division of work force services it was created to assist low income families in building good savings habits savings can only be withdrawn when the goal has been met or for qualified emergency withdrawals and services are provided by contracting with a qualified non profit fiduciary organization and it's federally funded with ten of block grant fence the executive recommendation is for approximately one hundred and forty two thousand dollars and professional fees and this concludes my presentations for this section. Rible kevin over here for question from its walls. No it's for the agency okay I any questions with staff. Go ahead with your question. Thank you mister chair thank you for coming my question first question and information you'll need to gather for me if you don't mind on page number fifty nine is the individual development account can someone get me the info about how many accounts we have in the dollar amount that we're holding interest and where that interest is going. Yes i'd be happy to get that information from and then follow up mr chair on sixty five if you could also get me the information because we have a large over appropriation that this is the various building constructions it's a human service in for renovation account if you can let me know what the master plan is for this money to be speed at how that's supposed to be at. And now we have to sixty five you're getting the head of oh sorry we all have them thank you it is any other questions up to page fifty man. Who's in thirty four rep revenue of lunch. Just a quick question it talks about on page fifty eight that for each contribution to the program participants to their ida savings account the state matches the deposits by three dollars. The. Yeah. Can can you explain that program to me i'm unwanted to sign up. The. This was a program under the tanif umbrella and fortunately the federal government discontinued this program in twenty seventeen however this program was continued with tnf in DW US prior to coming to dhs we have a contract with a bank lending organization who maintains these accounts and that contract expires on june thirty of twenty twenty four and so as a result will be sunsetting this program and and when the federal government discontinued the specific finding this is continued to be matched the routine at block phones how how many people participate in that program I can eat that number okay thank you thank you thank you chairman. See twenty one it's revenue wouldn't you recognize for a question thank you mister german on page of fifty five. Shows the seventeen possessions. And it's a hundred five thousand dollars that's forty one thousand four hundred and forty seven dollars somewhere in that range. Well below the average medium. In there they determine thousand dollars less than the average were all stayed government. What what is those positions. You're asking about the the salary for those positions the the seventeen positions and what the average salaries and what they're responsible for. Correct. So that the salary for those positions we can get you they the range of with those positions are with their salary is but those are the positions that are responsible before the residential license seeing they do the surveys they do the the actual licensing of placements for our children for childcare and for foster care residential in foster care. Okay on page for a half of your and they are. Six hundred thousand. Is general revenues manager for the state for the federal government. We're we're do you. Earlier how do you receive the federal money is it all at one time or is it breath out the year or another words what i'm really have to is well what you do with that money when you get it in you know spend as all they want to do now sir and we also don't receive state general revenue allocation on it when tom frame department of finding it to an administration either we get those all agencies received those to their painting accounts is distributions or allocation spread throughout the year based on revenue collection and then when we brand pay roll we paul the federal match for that expenditure and then we put it with the state match for us to pay pay roll and do either activities when are you when do you receive the federal money and I was spread out there a year or is it all I want yes sir we have to pay the expenditure first and then we are able to make the federal draw based on expenditure or so for instance payroll when we were in payroll every two weeks for the state that when we would make that federal draw the band you in the area is there yes that's correct it's reimbursement based on. So that money is already paid out in your returning it back to the state yes are that's correct. Won't more follow up. And what percentage are you using for the portion all match. Twenty five thirty five. Of the salary. So it's a state fifty fifty match but when calculating our state friends we roughly calculate around thirty two percent. Her employee what what percent do you use for a cell. They see they say they make boring one thousand so what what are you matching there. The mountain of dollar mayor burn individually blow that so around half of that would require state general revenue and the other fifty percent would be a federal dollar so you use the user fifty percent match number for for this work unit yes that's correct that's what's federally allowable with this federal program is a fifty fifty state match so about fifty percent of the funds are federal about fifty percent or state general revenue. Okay all right thank you chairman. Alright senator love your recognized for a question thank you miss chair secretary of pardon them I know that you know we've been discussing the dcfs division in some of the turnover concerns or challenges that we've been having in in your in your upcoming budget. Did you look at those employee you know speaking personnel did you look at all employee the the paste go for those employees and look it actually trying to bring them up in in order to connect stop some of the turnover that were the consistent turnover what happened how we dress and then this year's budget. So I think part of that is of the state wide approach that that the governors letter to employee sounds yesterday we're looking across the state at how do we elevate a number of different compensation ranges so that is part of it what which will help all of our state employees including those in dcfs so were grateful for you know the partnership on between the governor's office and legislature and looking to address that the other items that we have been trying to address we did implement supervisors ability to receive over time when they're carrying a caseload in dcfs and so we are continuing to try to take measures in many different ways to address compensation challenges with specifically to dcfs but across the agency okay thank you thank you miss chair. Alright members seeing no more questions on these last four words would have we need a motion for executive wreck of emotional second any discussion all in favor so in your post. This walls. Thank you mister chair the next one that we're going to discuss as the secretary's office in that department appropriation summaries on page sixty three the secretary is office houses the core business functions for the department and in this will your twenty four it has total authorized appropriations of approximately eighty five million dollars with six hundred and sixty two positions utilized across the department and four appropriations the executive recommendation is for a total of approximately eighty four point seven million dollars and six hundred and fifty two authorized positions in fiscal you're twenty five with changes to one appropriation from program transfers if you'll turn with me to page sixty nine this is the appropriation summary for the operations appropriation for the secretaries office it's better with general federal revenues and other sources that are determined primarily by the department's cost allocation plan the positions most of the positions in this appropriation do you work for multiple departments so they're paid back by those individual divisions for whom that person does the work and executive recommendation is for a decrease in ten positions a club along with a decrease of approximately three hundred and fifty thousand dollars in salary and matching for a total of sixty seven point eight million these changes are result of the transfer of the division of child care and early childhood education to the department of education due to at two thirty seven the learns act and they these positions in the appropriation that goes with them were associated with the core business functions of that particular division and this concludes my presentation. The. Frightened kevin off your recognized for question thank you mister chair you have my question on number sixty five I repeat it so I appreciate the app my other question is going to be on page seventy one which is the dh pay in grants since two thousand and nineteen that was look at we haven't really used that appropriation we haven't given anything out but we've done transfers out of it can we result transfers to. Thank you for your question we transfer those out to. We transferred those out to either state agencies and departments primarily work force education rehabilitation services and spannel cord commission if you don't mind if you'll get that information give it to the staff so we can have they are appreciated yes thank you. This. Seeing no other questions would need a motion for executive wreck and have a motion and a second any discussion. Old and they were sar in your post. It was walls thank you mr chair the next division that we're going to discuss is the division of aging adult and behavioral health services and it's department appropriations summaries on pages seventy three and seventy four this division provides support and protective services to physically disabled adults older adults and adults with behavioral health issues and also according to state substance abutes treatment and prevention efforts for a fiscal year twenty four the division has total authorized appropriations of approximately two hundred and seventy five point six million dollars with one thousand one hundred and fifty four positions and ten appropriations and the total executive recommendation is for two hundred and seventy five point nine million dollars in fiscal you're twenty five with changes to one appropriation. If you'll look on page eighty four this is the operations appropriation for this division which pays the salaries and operational expenses of the division including the operations at the arkansas state hospital and arkansas health center it's funded with general revenue federal revenue and various programs support there's roughly eight thousand dollars increase in the operating expenses line item for increased costs for food service and pharmacy fees and there is a five hundred thousand dollars decrease in the professional fees line item these changes results in an executive recommendation of one hundred and twenty seven point five million dollars in fiscal year twenty five and this concludes my presentation for this division. Yeah. Inequations for staff you choose for the agency. Reverted capital. You're recognized. Thank you mister chair. The. On page. We went through them this experience they have in the six. It is the community alcohol safety program this has a fun balance that we continue overnight sure this is by cars it's coming to the fund balance has views for very specific things if someone do we know off the top upper heads what that has to be used for. The. Yes palestine organs have department human services offers of substance abuse and mental health director and yesterday of cabinet that has to be used for it so and somebody has is arrested for AAA driving one on toxicated then it has to be used for a bit the screening of that person to see if they need further treatment that educational classes that are required be also purchased certificates and we provide that training making sure that the people that are providing that's educational classes are paid for that work okay so we just don't spend enough for the amount that we're collecting in this specific is that while we carry the continual fund balance so you know during the public health emergency some of those classes and some of those arrest slowed down their picking back up and so we're going to need to continue paying for those classes so that's providers we also had some funding that we use and to help them with some kinds of infrastructure built as well. Okay more more follow up mr chair thank you this is going to be doing on page. Eighty seven which is going to be the grants paying an account and I want to talk about distinguisher citizen funding. And I think we've had this conversation multiple times on the senior citizen funding we have it appropriated ten million and I noticed in twenty three we did spend the nine point three million that was part of it was at colored in our performance. Jay hill with dhs with dabble and a director yes representative that would include the supplemental okay general our general revenue appropriation is bad million is been historically five million for some time has it not ok thank you. So the flowers you recognize for question yes the on page eighty four. In brackets of forensics they are certain items that are reflect. Why not transfer to medicaid match reallocation of resources and then access appropriation funding can you explain that. Don't pay j before. Is that a decrease what what what what is that. Yeah. It's under funding sources those are fending sources yes that's correct so for example medicaid match we have facility settings under this division that are eligible to receive medicaid finding however they do pit out a portion of the state match to receive those phones back this trace is those phones so so what's in in these parentheses is going to an agency. It in each of these incidents is. Once for a hundred and twenty eight thousand realication of resources. Correct so we we allow has reallocation of resources at two four times annually those came in front of a peer and alc for reviews in approvals that those are a typically trinite fires between various divisions under the dhs. So does the parentheses the number in parentheses mean a decrease what what is that. Yes yes so there's just indicate transfers. The. And they appear somewhere else in the budget in some other agencies budget yes ma'am they probably are grouped with the medical services budget we primarily transfer money for medicaid payments that are associated with the health center and with ash where appropriate if they're beneficiaries in those facilities thank you thank you chair. All right thank you senator. Having no more questions we need a motion of ridiculous wreck of emotion and a second any discussion I would have been if they are in your pose stands prove we're going now with walls to children and family services thank you mr chair the next division we're going to talk about is the division of children and family services and their appropriations summary on page one hundred and five of your manual this division provides support services foster care adoption and protective services for children and families across this state for physical you're twenty four it has towed authorized appropriations of three hundred and twelve point five million dollars with one thousand four hundred and twenty two positions and six appropriations. The total executive recommendation for this division is approximately three hundred and thirteen point five million dollars in fiscal year twenty five with no significant changes so i'll discuss the operations appropriations very briefly. It is on page one hundred and eleven this is the summary for their operations appropriation which provides for the administrative and salaried support of the operations of the division and it's funded with general revenue federal revenue and various programs support and the executive recommendation is for one hundred and forty five point six million dollars in fiscal year twenty five and that concludes my presentation for this division. Revenue came and I forget a question for this agency yesterday you recognized thank you this is gonna be question on one fifteen which is that children's trust fine. The. And I realize this is special revenue but we have a large fund balance in there we don't seem to spend a lot out of that. Can you tell me what we're doing with that money. Yes so good morning i'm taking your writing the director for the division of children and family services the children's trust fund is focused on primary prevention so we are we have a program called baby in me that's operated at the week office that's a prevention program i'm supporting marms with basic support around newborn babies so that is one thing we have we also have the support to the community schools as well as. Supporting sorry I lost my train applied the community schools and which baby in me and apparently for prevention all of that is some of the programs that are in the children's trust find we only spend a hundred and forty one thousand dollars in this and. As it's probably been a lower well aware of it we have a problem with maternal and. And issues and with the death rate that we have. What restrictions are on their special revenue where it can be speaked do we know what the restrictions are on this fund balance. I can get that information for you if you don't mind i'd appreciate it thank you. Representative lunch from your reconnect for question can you tell us how many people participate in this program. Not off the top of my head but I will get that information i'd like to know that thank you in it does the baby serve specific counting so i'll provide that in that okay thank you. So. Saying no other questions we need emotional on the family services for executive wreck we have emotion and a second any discussion i'll in favor of the in your both they have to prove with haggled with canny operations miss walls. The. Thank you mister chair the next division is the division of county operations and its appropriations summaries on page one hundred and twenty one in your manual this division is primarily responsible for administering local office locations around the state determining and redetermining eligibility across multiple need an asset best programs. And enrolling eligible beneficiary applicants in those programs for fiscal year twenty four it has total authorized appropriations of one hundred and ninety six million dollars with one thousand eight hundred thirty four positions and nine appropriations. The total executive recommendation for one hundred is for one hundred ninety seven point five million dollars in fiscal year twenty five with no significant changes so will discount the operations appropriation briefly it is on page one hundred and thirty four this is the summary and it provides for the administrative and primary salaried support of the divisions operations it's funded through general revenue federal revenues and various program support with the total executive recommendation of a hundred and sixty seven point five million dollars and fiscal year twenty five and this concludes my presentation for this division. In equations for stayer for the department. See no will entertain emotion for executive record of emotion and a second any discussion i'll have favorite sar in your post. The. Now we're going down to development disabilities miss walls thank you mister chair the next division is the division of a developmental disability services and its department appropriation summary is on page one hundred and forty four of your manual this division is responsible for the administration of programs and services for people who are developmentally disabled their community based services and programs edit the five human development centers it has a total authorized appropriations for fiscal year twenty four of two one hundred and eleven point one million dollars with two thousand five hundred thirty five positions and eat appropriations the executive recommendation is for a total of approximately two hundred and seven point six million dollars in fiscal year twenty five with changes in one appropriation for program transfers. If you will look on page one hundred and fifty seven this is the summary for the operations appropriation for this division it supports the operations of the division including the management and operation of the five human development centers and has funded with general revenue federal revenues and various programs support. The executive recommendation is for a net decrease of three point five million dollars to one hundred and eighty eight point two million dollars in fiscal year twenty five as a result of the first connections unit which administers the state's early intervention program for children who are not yet school aged moving to the department of education and active thirty seven the learns act this decrease includes the following changes in positions and line items there is a decrease of thirty two regular positions and a combined decrease of three hundred and ninety four thousand dollars and salaries and matching decrease in one extra help position and fifty thousand dollars in appropriation there decrease of five hundred ten thousand dollars an operating expenses approximately nine thousand dollars in conference for using travel and one hundred thousand dollars and professional fees they're also some grants lines that are paid through this appropriation that moved as well and they have shipped a two point five million dollars in the grants and patient services line item and approximately nine thousand dollars in the purchase of a services line item and again that executive recommendation is for one hundred and eighty eight point two million dollars in fiscal year twenty five and this concludes my presentation for this division. The. Reverts duke you have a question for staff or agency for the agency and i'm not sure thank you mister chair if it's appropriate yet it's for page one twenty one twenty one so if I need to wait and then we've already passed their go ahead i'm sorry thank you there is a refugee refugee resettlement program listed on there could you tell me a little bit more about that. Yeah. Yes we'll have director mary franklin come up to give an answer on the refugee resettlement thank you. Good morning mary franklin director of the division of county operations the the refugee resettlement program it is a federal program and it is funded through the. Us department of health and human services administration for children and families through the office of refugee resettlement. Um individuals who are resettled through this program go through rigorous state department homeless security protocols before they are allowed to enter the country and arm they are able to receive cash assistance or small amount eighty one dollars a month per for one person for up to twelve months. From the day they enter the country and they also receive supportive services and medicaid be happy to take any other questions. Reversing do give a follow up you are good. Okay reserve any what whose your question for. Go ahead and thank you mister chair I have a question about the city harmless exist assistance great can you explain what that is. Yes I want to confirm I believe that is our appropriation for the emergency solution that the department administers in that great the purpose of that grant is to. Help address homelessness reduce homelessness through funding for shelters for straight out reach and also some rapid rehousing in a humans prevention. Thank you. Representative raymond who's your question for the agency well we got two home down there and let let me ask my word you know they'll jump II had a question about DDS on on page one fifty six okay misfranklin I think you're offered for right now but i'm all right stand on alert. I was looking at the on one fifty six the budget there over time. The. Looks like the budget the previous budget was two million and we're increasing that the four point three million. This. Is that because we can't feel positions. I mean why is that the overtime doubling. Tommy torribly interned director division of disability services so representative of ladies and the four point three million is. Appropriation amount the the budgeted amount that we anticipated to for this year was the two million and seventy thousand so. If we were to have a circumstance we generally do carry some unfunded appropriations over time for instances like but the public health emergency where we did have some staffing shortages we might have to reallocate some funds to overtime in order to cover. You have chefs and shortly learns and things like that so the four point three is just the appropriation and then the lower two million so we don't anticipate the span being the three four point three million. But is there a problem with staffing where we're. Paying excess funds for overtime when back to representative months question earlier. Could we pay more money than these folks and get more people in there and it would be less cost instead of being overdown. But we have been definitely trending in the right direction there certainly from the the cna perspective nursing as secretary of button and mentioned earlier is the area were focusing on now so there are improvements with the with the cna director staff or what have allowed that that overtime spend again a trend down recently. Alright thank you. The. Senator flowers you recognize for a question thank you mister chair on page one forty four and I don't know whether this is for ms wallace or who can answer. But. Under it the appropriation column. So this is au five or the ada supplemental grant. And I understand the main individuals the disability education act. In the last school year it appears there's a balance of a million five. The. Then reading this right nothing was requested for the bionium. So what can you tell me more about that going out. The purpose and there were words being done with those phones that held over well they spent one point five million dollars in that for that grant during the last fiscal year some of those are programs have continued into the next fiscal year some of them have night and it's my understanding that those grants have to be requested even if they do continue into the next year they have to be requested every year through the pierce subcommittee. So even if they do have that wouldn't be requesting that for an additional year simply because they would have had to have they're not requesting it through the traditional process here they request it through here because it's not supposed to continue on your after year after a year after a year or what's the balance. That I do not know. What can you get that information for an end then what was the purpose. Of the great. I would have to get that information for you that a depth believe this is transferred over to the department of ad at support of the first connections. Movement from dhs to to the the department of education. Sent a flowers will make sure staff and agency get you that information yeah i'd like to understand you know it is if something to transfer monies or transfer to another. Department i'm not understanding why they're listed under the budget without a notation of a transfer and how much other transfer. The. And for what purpose. And it really would like to know thank you mister we'll get that information for you. I do I think seek thirty nine that represent a bunch. You reckon asked. How do I do. Yeah. Right there we go. We're might it may be the fun gathers run in the mike yeah review richardson if you get back in the well i'll get you later. I now we're going to go. Thank you sir. In regards to refugee resettlement program and the home was assistant grant do you have any idea of the number of people served. By these money suit aside. The. Mary franklin director of division of county operations I did bring those numbers today. Um in twenty twenty four today there in a hundred and thirty individuals resettled. Through the risk refugee resettlement program. Man for her to correct one thirty one hundred and thirty this calendar year to date. Thank you. Repeat of j ridges you're recognized never mind you got it all right. Who's in thirty four seventeenth. Review you recognized just to follow up on your last answer the hundred and thirty were you stating for twenty twenty four the two minutes of twenty twenty four hundred thirty and do you have numbers for twenty twenty three. Twenty twenty three at a hundred and sixty nine. You good representative okay and this may be fiscal year I need to confirm that whether it's calendar year or fiscal here yes sir representative rose you recognize for a question yes thank you just looking or this a little bit more and I was just curious if you could come at on why the agency request is only twelve thousand on the refugee resettlement program in last year it's only sixteen thousand that was spent but then we're budgeting and recommending. Two hundred and seventy two thousand seemed a little unique to me so they're the number of refugees has increased twenty twenty one it was a total of nine so we have it has increased although it still not large numbers and that particular line. Was to pay the cash assistance the eighty one dollars I might so you know we didn't need very much because there weren't very meaning refugees in additionally most of these individuals go to work right away and become ineligible for the cash assistance and so we just haven't had to use it very much we have increased the amount has increased because because the program has increased even though it's still small numbers there are more things we need to do to to track information on these individuals report information to the office of refugee resettlement we also. Or funding. The health the health assessments in the the data tracking so we just have a little bit more money now so that we can properly monitor and report for this program since it has grown. Follow up mr chair green thank you i'd think it would be of interest to have a little bit more of a breakdown of how it was spent on how you project that it was would be spare in the year ahead is that something that you can provide and a breakdown of who who has been served and how they've been served. Thank you. Is that you can represent lunch from here you're recognized i'd just like to follow up on the questions that have been asked on the refugee assistant settlement program and homeless assistance grants how many people were served but what is the cost per person and I realize the agency cast might be i've done the little math here maybe a hundred and twenty two bucks. But what is the cost to the state in medicaid food assistance tn what's the overall net that we're looking at and cost. For a summer for this harmless assistance program in the refugee grant at i'm having a hard time with the budget looking at the numbers and knowing how many people are actually served. The. Yes representative loads from we can put that information together for refugee result on my and the emergency solution screen thank you. Representative in your recognized for question. Thank you mister chair mr franklin can you provide information on each doll out the money for the homeless grand per county cause i'm interested in seeing happiless county and seen how much money that they apply for in the grant yes yes ma'am we do a request for applications for that program each year and community organizations across the state can apply for those phones now that covered finding his ended the grant has returned to normal size and normal requirements including the match which is a one for one match so if you apply for phones you have to have a match equal to that and show that you have spent it on a louble activities per this federal brand so we find a we take those applications and then we allocate fines based on the applications and we do make an effort to try in. You know if we get applications across the state to spread those fines across the street alright thank you rabbit you get another question yes sir thank you mister. Thank you for your patience with frank when appreciate your time one other question I had for you with regard to the refugee resettlement program is that funding go to individuals or does it go to non profits or both so dhs does not do the case management portion of those services. We we do the refugee cash assistance and provide the medical assistance but the federal government subgrans are great directly to an organization four of those case management described there were some other members I know I know is awkward but they can hear you if you talk pull that mike we got a shift that tabled out or something looked like a washington hearing during this morning my apologies is ok so I was explaining that DHS does not receive the federal phones to provide the case management services those are the services to get the individuals settled house and help with. Job skills getting ready to go to work all those things you would think about of acclamating someone into the country that's a new or canson dhs receives funding for the cash assistance and the medical assistance and then we also receive some fine so that we and we can track the data we can make sure about the health screenings. The health department helps and arranges for those health screenings and. Just the admin of the staff now that's been some of their time. You know monitoring and helping with the refugee result program but the case management is directly between the organization here in arkansas that's a private organization not a profit organization and the federal government. Those phones do not float little hs thank you rose you got to follow up yes or follow up just just for the the slow minded amongst us. Could you articulate to me do any of these recommended hypothetically two hundred and seventy two thousand dollars with the funds go to nonprofits in our state. That I think that's a yes or no yes okay that's that's just what I needed and and you explain that well thank you. Previous rose you true I guess the last question is can you give me a list of who those non profits are in the past or in the future we'd like that with the other information that i've asked for thank you thank you for your patience thank you. All right while we got a chance we need a motion exactly wreck on developmental disabilities of emotion on a second. Any discussion i'll in favor say in your post brewed this walls we're going to the medical services you're up. The. Thank you mister chair all right the next division is the vision of medical services this department appropriation summary is on pages one hundred and sixty two and one hundred and sixty three this division administers payment to providers for services provided through the medicaid medicaid waiver and our kids programs for fiscal year twenty four it has total authorized appropriations of ten point one billion dollars with eighty seven positions and fourteen appropriations. The executive recommendation is for a total appropriations of ten point six billion dollars in fiscal year twenty five with significant changes into appropriations. If you'll turn with me to pay to one hundred and eighty eight. This is the private nursing home care line item of the medicaid grants paying appropriation which pays for expenses app for medically i'm sorry medicaid eligible benefit of series of long term care skilled nursing facilities and spunded through general revenues federal revenues and the quality assurance fee which is otherwise known as the nursing home bed tax the executive recommendation is for a fifty million dollar increase up to a total of one point zero one billion dollars in fiscal year twenty five and it's been made to better align with the medicaid by any old forecast and if you'll turn with me to page one hundred and ninety this is the summary for the hospital and medical services line item. Of the medicaid grants appropriation which pays expenses for all waiver services and any service not paid under any other medicaid grants line item yet spend it through general revenues federal revenues and a variety of other state funding sources. The executive recommendation is for an increase of approximately four hundred million dollars to a total of eight point four billion dollars in this line item too better align with the medicaid band or forecast for fiscal year twenty five that concludes my presentation for this division. Any questions for staff or the agency. Seeing now take it hope. Rebel rare is less from what are you doing over playing being going on and all from debating I have a question about the number of beds in arkansas I understand that we have long before any of us were here and long before any feel were here we have a requirement for only so many nursing home beds per county and so we have some beds that are empty in south arkansas and some people that are going waiting in northwest are considered palaski county. Yeah. How is this going to alleviate that problem if we can't get people into beds into nursing home facilities. Think we're gonna have to get you some additional information as you said this was prior to most of us sitting here on the beds being restricted by county there is a you have to apply and there's a population configuration and where limited on the number of beds and so it stops any competition from coming in it cops and starts nursing homes from expanding so putting more money towards nursing homes i'm not sure is a good idea if we can't expand to take care of our population. Yes ma'am we will get you the detailed information by county and the and the details to how that is determined thank you thank you chairman for indulgence. They may have. Seeing no other questions we need emotional medical service for executive rack of emotion and a second any discussion all in favor say are in the opposed stand proved. We're gonna go now to quality assurance miswalls we recognized. Thank you mister chair and the next vision is the division of provider services and quality assurance and its department summary appropriation summary is on page one hundred and ninety eight this division provides administrative support and oversight of providers enrolled in the medicaid medicaid waiver and our kids programs in physical you're twenty four it has total authorized appropriations of twenty one point four million dollars with two hundred thirteen positions and three appropriations the executive recommendation is for total appropriations in twenty one point six million dollars in fiscal year twenty five with no significant changes so we will briefly discuss the operations appropriation. It is iron page two hundred and two. This appropriation provides for the administrative and primary salaried support of the divisions operations and it's funded through general and federal revenues and the executive recommendation is for approximately nineteen point nine million dollars in fiscal year twenty five and this concludes my presentation for this division. Any questions for staff or agency. We need a motion executive wreck with emotion and a second any discussion i'll in favor say are in the opposed standard proved. We will now go to the u services as well as you recognize. The. Thank you mister chair their final division is the division of you services in its department appropriations some reason page two hundred and six of your manual. This division was created to handle the problems of youth involved with the juvenile justice system their variety of confusion based and residential options for case management diversion and rehabilitation of that rescue in fiscal year twenty four it has total authorized appropriations of eighty two point nine million dollars with one hundred and twenty four positions and five appropriations the executive rep recommendation is for total appropriations of eighty three point six million dollars in fiscal year twenty five with changes to two appropriations if you will turn with me to page two hundred and fourteen that is december for the residential services appropriation which funds residential services to juvenile's committed to the wis where they are assessed then assigned to an appropriate secure or specialized treatment facility this is federal through general revenues in various program support there is an increase of eight hundred thousand dollars for coast cost associated with how higher sense is due to increases in the numbers of youth or committed to dys for an executive recommendation of approximately thirty four point six million dollars in fiscal year twenty five. And if you'll turn with me to page two hundred and sixteen this is the summary for their operations appropriation and it provides for the administrative and salaries supported the divisions operations it spended through general revenues federal revenues and various programs support and the executive recommendation includes a decrease of two hundred and fifty thousand dollars in capital outlay that's associated with the one time addition of facilities for the sea step program and the takes a recommendation to fourteen point eight million dollars in fiscal year twenty five and this concludes my presentation of this division and the department. I got a question registered cab at all for you for the staff or the age agency recognized thank you mister chair mine's gonna be on page two fourteen was its regional services for you services fund account we have an appropriation that's about eleven million over what the spend was um or we looking for that much increase. And how many kids are going to be we think are going to be in dys. Good morning michael crowd director of his new services at we do anticipate our numbers to be higher just to can have summarized the way things went down our numbers decreased they've been decreasing for several years and during the pandemic we had a really low number than starting in twenty twenty three the spring of twenty twenty three we started seeing numbers of commitments we have not seen in it before my time i've been just a little bit more than five years and we had not added numbers like that so we're doing some things. That we can do because we never know we try to predict every year but we don't know how many kids were getting from day to day they just we get the order and they show up at the front door so we're doing some things i'll are in to try to get the numbers down i'm really helpful about that but we just don't we never know from one year to the next exactly how many we're we're going to be how many kids are. In there now total and by us custody right now I believe was three seventy two this morning okay and do we know what the average cost per day is for these to keep these children suffer the ones that are in secure our most secure facilities it's three hundred twenty dollars per day and then we also have some other expenses but it's mainly the three hundred top three hundred two dollars per youth per day but then we also have some outside medical pharmacy some things like that that are on top of that. Okay that's you said that was in secure is that they only we also have a number of youth who are waiting in a juvenile detention center because we don't have space in the take to put them all at one time those just range depending on their all county rhine so they typically run around ninety to a hundred dollars per day then we also have some you through appropriate it's not appropriate for all youth but we have some that are in what we were called community type of group palms for lack of better word specially there's about thirty two beds we have their total those are a hundred and forty day dollars a day for one type of a home and then a hundred and sixty dollars for the other but we can't I mean they're not their different type of settings so not all youth are appropriate for that type of setting okay and what is your capacity I know you say you get three seventy two what your capacity it's a really tricky question to be honest I mean we were way over what we would consider the ideal capacity in terms of. You know. Staffing and bedside bed space but you can you can certainly add staff if you have the fines and if you're able to hire those positions you can move things around put more beds in as long as you have enough staff to cover that you can move more kids in an admiral bad which is what we've had to do and what we did at because of the increase in numbers and staffing and bads is. We did reopen one facility to be able to create a little bit of relief for our largest facility to get some kids there we added a handful of groupon beds for those youngest are males in our custody specially those elementary school age males that we have to be able to get those off the campus and we just take some other measures around discharges and things just try to get those numbers down so it are largest facility that we really which is an alexander ideally we she for a hundred and twenty hundred kids and treatment and twenty to twenty four may be in assessment we were close to two hundred several months back I think now we're just over one sixty. So with their efforts we've been making him been getting the numbers down at that facility to make sure that we have a stability and we're able to provide the resources there okay when you talk about your capacity is it because you don't have the bed space or you don't have the staff cause you're telling me you want one twenty four but you had two hundred site tells me you had the beds available that the actual beds that they could be in but you didn't have you don't have adequate staff for that number the staffing ratios right of passage that runs those facilities force they are able to hire staff and stay in ratio it does facilities for the most part we do have fluctuations like anyone that runs any type of congregate care when it comes to nursing and teaching and all of those things so sometimes the staffing levels fluctuate but where the pull we've rates the point where we we take an advantage of just about all of the space we have an alexander and the other campuses. We don't really have. Even if we even if we have more staff I don't know that we would be able to put a lot more beds in those facilities at this point okay thank you they're. Certain flowers you recognize for question thank you miss so you're saying in you have three hundred and seventy two. In these. Correctional or treatment centers presently. Correct so how many others are there that are placed in local june little detention centers i'm not I don't have that information other than we have about forty five that are committed to dys that are waiting in a juvenile to since consider until they're bad opens up and so we can bring them into and take and then get the place to one of our facilities as as other you've leave I don't have the information there's currently ten juvenile detention centers left in the state so those other youth that are not being committed to our customer they're not part of my system I don't have access to that information. Well like these I think you said forty five and waiting to be placed in and state facilities. The. So aren't they spread out or where are they are I recall jersey county has an agreement to help. A lot of these kids for dys. And i've always been concerned about that. But I mean they are down there do you know the number two day I could I could probably pull that up on my phone but it's jefferson county takes more than any other jurisdiction because they're willing and they have twenty they probably have twenty seven or some of those kids last time I looked typically in a lot of the other jurisdictions the kids they're holding. Our kids from their jurisdiction who are waiting for a bit so we have a few places that we have yet more use with or an agreement to where we will pay the daily rate but what we do is we just call when we get a youth committed and if they have a bad available and we don't have space they'll allow us to put are you in that bad. Well. I'm really concerned about this conservative county is always had a lot kids committed to dys it's been a bit concerned. And I want to know you get commitment. Waiting for replacement at dysfacilities how do you insure the separate from youth. There are indies. Detention centers. For maybe. Just non delinquent. X. I again I don't know what type of youth they have outside I only have access to who dys is placing there I don't believe they should have youth I mean you're not supposed to be able put someone there for tremendously or something like that status of finders I think what you see mostly if i'm just if I had to speculate on the other type of youth who are there it ought those are youth that the court decided to send to their own local june of the tension center for a shorter period perhaps or someone who has not been adjudicated yet so they're waiting on adjudication to decide what their ultimate placement is going to be sometimes that's what dys sometimes it might be probation I mean there's a number of outcomes that could occur so is it a flat fee that I hear you say a hundred dollars a day. It varies from one juvenile attention center to the other they we have to pay the amount that they're willing to accept to be on place you there i'd like to get that information mister chair. There is a daily rate i'm sorry if that I found this part of the question that it it is a daily rate we'll make sure stay off just with you guys the item for me yes and if any additional funds are paid for children that might have some type of disability some special need. Er is paid to these local detention facilities and really like to know more about how do you all monitor this with these children though i'd appreciate it what you will give it at the agency and stay after you with you to those answers. Thank you. Representative shepherd we recognized for question thank you mister chair i'm thank you all for being here today and thank you mister cromp this is somewhat of a follow up from representative cabinet and senator flowers could I be provided with a comprehensive list of were all dyschildren are it to include secure resolution jdc a list of we're all the kids are. In in addition to representative cavenaus question mister crop I think you stated it was three hundred plus dollars a day but their excluded medical is there correct some medical so there are there are medical staff on sight there's there's nursing they provide medication if it's something mine or they're able to take care of that they're also involved in the assessment process there are there best on side to provide their being to assessments but you do have instances where something acute happens it may be on the mental health side or it may be on medical if someone is injured if they have an acute mental health need so a no situations will either take them to an emergency room or call and seek an assessment of placement outside and that's when either if they go impatient if they have insurance and medicaid that will help cover the cost but if they don't have that or if they don't go to impacient status when they go off site that falls back to the wire so just give an example someone's playing basketball and hurts their arm and needs to go to the emergency room that that's going to fall back on dyus correct arm follow up mister chair really quickly in um for me with those procedures can we get an accounting of all funding that's being paid outside of what the contractors are getting for any type of extra arm expenses so as far as the bloody white what we are spending on medical and pharmacy yes outside the medical pharmacy mental health outside of any money that are being paid to the contract absolutely thank you welcome. Review of columns you record out for question thank you so continuing with this you know with such an increase obviously showing such an increase in utilization obviously their drivers are visited nothing to do if you guys but are there anything if you guys studied any kind of systematic way or do you have any thoughts on things that are within the perview of DHS that can reduce the utilization of residential services and what are those things and if you reviewed whether the investments are sufficient in whether it's case worker whatever to prevent you know this from increasing and part because of insufficient investment in other areas that's one of the things we look at daily so we do have involvement in those community based services as well prevention and diversion programs are community based provider partners do a really good job out in the community there's ten of those at they assist they go to the schools in the courts and try to help your coordinate provides some type of case management and other services and and just really connect families with that we started back in october actually we did a pilot before that but intensive in home services is something that we were able to start providing recently as a preventative measure we only have a certain number of slots where we use state why but what we did was made that available to the courts as an alternative so if they see a youth that struggling in and getting close to the point where they might be considering commitment and they have some delinquency issues they are able to make a referral to one of those providers to have that youth place in that sister minute for those services so though if you're not familiar with intensive in home they have a staff intervention specialist that have swapped very small case loads of three to five families and they work with the entire family so what they do is they go out and assess and they're in the home up to three times a week they're on call twenty four seven and so they try to address any issues that may be going on and home in the home if you have a youth that fits this criteria so if it's something in the family. Surrounding employment or medical or substance abuse whatever that may be or sometimes just a matter of communication they may try to help the family communicate a little bit better and we've had a lot of good feedback and it's it's really early in the process but you know the feedback I get from judges and and others in the community is it's a really good program they seem a lot of positives at least anecdotally coming back from the families and when their kids come back to court who are receiving no services so we are providing that we're in the process of expanding our civilian student training program it's an eight and a half week military style but I had book campus we have some elements and we have a lot of former military that work there and so judges are able to use that to give some you the opportunity for that program as an alternative to committing them to dys which is a typically much longer period of time in a much more secure environment we you know we're always working with our community based providers we had a and I think this week with a lot of juvenile just a stakeholders just to work on what are some things we can do better and we focus not on the custody side but the focus was strictly on prevention diverse in those kids that are out in the community and what are the things that we can do better you know and how can we get creative to seek those fines and those services to be able to provide those because. Every jurisdiction every juvenile and court every jurisdiction in the state the resources and their needs are a little bit different and so you know they don't all necessarily have the exact same needs and things available to them so we're trying to do what we can to be able to meet that need as much as the yes can or at least point someone in the right direction do you guys feel like you have the right next of funding within your department so you know we're not just clean it up what's left here after you know those. So I will jump I think we are valuating that day by day we do have residential would you have requirements we're also looking at other prevention in diversion criteria in also with intensive in home and sea step and then also trying to add community reintegration we are trying to add a whole slight of services so I think as we work through and hopefully the numbers come down for residential that we can um have that whole array of services and then be able to better answer that question for you thank you. Seeing no other questions we need emotion for the use services for executive wreck we have emotion and a second any discussion old in favor in the opposed. It is adopted. We want to thank you for your button in your staff in your order excuse. We're going to education miswalking will come up. More. All right membership did you see we're going to get started as well and you are recognized to start. Thank you you don't have a general statement that you want to start with secretary of every day i'm i'm not known to be shot for words but we can go ahead and start I can just get why whatever you want you you got a general statement you will make are sure II think just overall i'd like to think the legislative delegation further supporters we've been implementing what I consider to be the largest education reform that's happened I thought the united states for several decades. And it is hard to believe that about a year ago today we were in committee meetings talking about how we were going to get this account across the finish line and as we go through the implementation phase and go kind of through our budget to give you updates we we've accomplished a lot of major milestones we've made a lot of difference for the students and family start the state of arkansas I just want to stay thank you and or excited to be here in in engage in a wonderful dialogue this morning. I just walked in your recognized. Thank you mister chair good morning members i'm katy walden bureau of legislative research fiscal division today i'm going to be going over with you the three education divisions that receive public score funding and I will only be going over the public school funding request the first one we will go over is the department of education division of elementary and second area education appropriation that begins on page two eighteen of your manual and you can flip there but also in your packet I put together a schedule for you it is item d you'll find that in the manual the line items within the public school fund are in fund center appropriation order so I just took everything that was in that manual and put it in this schedule alphabetized by line item so if you think of the line item you want to see it's an alphabetic order. In just walking you through this schedule on the far left you'll see page numbers that's where you can find a description of the line items in the manual but you'll see the line item you'll see the actual amount spent for the last full fiscal year of fiscal year twenty three you'll see their budget and authorized amounts for a fiscal year twenty four and then on the far right you'll see their request for fiscal year twenty five and I highlighted it the line items that had changed. So just to go over with you the division of elementary and secondary education for the public school phone has about seventy appropriation line items this request totals three point four six five billion dollars they have forty nine authorized positions for this appropriation and funding for this appropriation is comprised of public school funding general revenue educational adequacy fines existing phone balances educational excellent trust phones and tax revenue and tainted transfers and this is the one that you think of when you think of all the state aid that goes to the schools k twelve schools. There are a couple of line items that I want to bring to your attention today they have change levels the first one is on the first page of your schedule it is for appskin this is the arkansas public school computer network. Appropriation it's on page two twenty three of your manual app scans mission is to provide a state wide data communication network they connect all the public school systems within the state and the coops they provide electronic access for administrative computing services for the schools the schools in her other counting information into that and they also provide remote instructional services. The total recommendation is for twenty nine point four million dollars in fy twenty five and this is an increase of about thirty three thousand dollars. This is just for pre calculated adjustments in matching rates and salary adjustments that are provided in law. The next appropriation with changes is on page two of your schedule it is the office of education renewal zones and that's also on page to twenty one of your manual. This provides for the operation of the education renewal zones which is a compact between public schools the educational corps in institutions of higher education and together they collaborate for the purpose of higher educational attainment for students. This recommendation totals one point three six million in fy twenty five this includes an increase of about two thousand dollars and again this is just for matching rate adjustments that are provided in loss so no real change of a request for either two of those. The. Also on this page you'll see some lines that are highlighted in blue. These are the three new lines that were established by arkansas they are for maternity leave merit teacher incentive and minimum teacher salary and raises now there other line items in other division budgets there were also created by learns but we're only going over the public school fund lines today and so you'll see at this time there is no increase in these line items. Requested or recommended we might see something later in the physical session but nothing now. So this concludes my remarks on dazzy mr chair i'll take questions and staff as here as well all right we got questions reviewed college your question for stay after agency it's for the agency you recognize thank you mister so i'm just looking at the school phone. Fun balance and now this is not anything new but it's new for me to ask about it so. Two hundred and thirty four million dollars being requested that's down a little bit from three hundred and thirty nine million and three hundred and three million why is that so large and. Are we intentionally spending it down and it's so what are we trying to spend it down to what do we think is in the right place. So you you time about the fundamental excess appropriations for me balance okay so the other the three hundred million dollars a we have a fun balance in the public school fine typically because and we make our recommendations it's two years to the adequacy study which is the biggest driver and so as we go along. We have carried for authority and there so we used that phone balance to balance the needs that we need for the following years so we do try to bring that phone balance down we usually try to keep it around two hundred and two hundred fifty million dollars that keeps us for having to go back and ask him for an ongoing increase of general revenue each year so we we play that balance in there to try to make sure we are keeping that down not let me get to. So in your ideal world it would be about this level in perpetuity. Yes because if not I would have to have the increase that we would need each year depending on what adequacy increases may be would have to include that increase of three hundred or two hundred fifty million dollars each year as well. But if I won't bag at twenty two twenty three and twenty three twenty four both years it was around the same three hundred million so I are you saying that you need it for two years to pay down the second year or center that now we we look at each year and we try to the request that we need for general revenue we ought we lower that by what that found balance here's once it gets over a certain amount to try to keep that fun balance the same so we don't have a new general revenue request of two hundred to three hundred million dollars about zero then in rsa I would need that three hundred million dollars the next year to make sure that I have enough ex- to spend for a foundation funding. The. Senator for mark johnson you recognized for question thank you mister chairman and mister secretary I am and will keep this brief and promised to chair since it was a non budget question i'll keep it brief and appreciate it a quick answer I have had constituent requested that I get some clarification for him dealing with his son who is I think a rising soft more in high school he wanted to know about the requirement for public service volunteers hours and I told him that I thought the department would have some guidance and some rules could you tell me where that's going to be and how how tighter flexible it might be just a very quick summary i'm sure thank you senator there's something that we we've put some commissioner members out and done some web and arts of superintense because we have a lot of questions on what what qualifies what does not qualify and in fact we did a workshop with the state or yesterday to go over the draft rules on outlining what is that reporting requirement whether the school districts required to do to meet that seventy five hours upon graduation so we anticipate bringing those draft rules to our state board next thursday to put out for public comment but what you'll see and there is we want to be realistic and it's flexible as we can we're going to give the local school districts and administrators the amount authority that they need to support students and meeting this requirement I think this is a wonderful opportunity for students to get connected to their community and fact I want to apply the several school districts that have been innovative and found ways to do school white community service projects and we've heard feedback from students that there's been overwhelmingly positive but we're going to give the districts as much flexibility as we can then if they do have a circumstance or student that's just not able to meet it we've identified how they can exempt a student from that requirement because the last thing we want to do is. Keep somebody from graduating from high school cause in a community service requirement but we do feel strongly that participating that community service i'm experienced is going to help that well run in education we expect everybody okay and that's a great answer I look forward to seeing the rules in the next week or so thank you mister sector thank you mister chairman. The. Senator chest feel you recognize for a question yes thank you mister share good morning morning jacob howard depends on the questions the years i'm noticing asking and I was looking at the. At the analysis here of what actually is supposed to do and one of the things that I work very hard for is to make sure that app scan was also available to our division of you services because one of the problems that we had was that our children who were incarcerated. We're not getting the information from the school. To the juvenile services center and we weren't doing it from the juvenile service the center back to the school I wished are they stealing very much a part of asking in or. Because it's not listed here as one of the entities that utilize his appskin. So i'm greg rogers farm and education got do that first i'm sorry yes we are there we earn an account with the offers the sister commissioner hope uh we had a conversation about that in a couple weeks go that we are working with those facilities to make sure they are reporting in apps can't and working with them to give him side on and make sure they are reporting correctly and how that needs to work on the forward so we have man we aren't working on that because there would sometimes be a two more gap between when the key if left the school got to there and if they got a good grade or something in the juvenile assessment center it will be a two month delay before it got back to the regular school so I want to make sure that what we did put in place is still being used last year's man okay with secretary we did something historic and raising starting salary of teachers to fifty thousand one of the things it is of concern and i've gone several school districts across the state what is the salary going to look like next year because we can't keep teachers at fifty thousand year one and then expect them to work for the same thing in year to tell me what we are doing to make sure that there will be raises for those who are currently making the fifty thousand what they can possibly look like for them going forward. So I one of the great things about the learns initiative in prioritising teacher salaries is the fact that we went from forty eighth in the nation is starting teacher solar to the top five now we got a sustainable sort of questions we get from superintendents all the time and I know the governor and I believe this legislature has supported those payments to be continued and perpetuity so that we can make sure that we recruit retain are and recognize our most talented teachers one of the things this budget does is increase the foundation funding which would may provide some flexible dollars because determine their salary schedule is going to be up to the local school district because they're going to determine a salary schedule the priorities with their value in in their teachers whether it's here is a service advanced agrees specialized areas. And then I think part of that conversation as we go through the adequacy study we're gonna see how that comes out and then be able to come back because II we've definitely heard that across the board date we want to make sure that we value and recognize our educators and that needs to be a priority okay and since we don't have a minimum salary schedule will be really don't know what that's going to look like but we're anticipating then that the local school districts will take care of that is that what the school districts are have reported for the teachers that are funded in the k twelve allocation that they have implemented a starting salary of at least fifty thousand dollars well I know that part this year one right. This year two that seems to be troubling people where we go from fifty thousand because they're going to build their budgets and prioritize at the local level with their school board on how they want to build out that teacher salary schedule we're not putting in any minimum requirements beyond that but are we putting in any minimum money that would make there is a request for an increase in the foundation funding and then as you go through the adequacy study that's something that can be determined by the legislature sign the mr share and thank you for your patience one of the things that is troubling so many education support professionals is they didn't seem to be thought about. As we were putting this together and if the buses don't run in the food is not served and the buildings are not claim. It's gonna make it more difficult to educate children what are we doing to say to our education support professionals because we did not raise their salaries what are we doing s four s funding is concerned to sleep in them. That you might not be a teacher but your role is equally important because without you the schools don't what are we what are we doing money first first i'd say you're a hundred percent right and I always hold up we take care of educational family and and a lot of time when we think about staffing schools most people automatically just think it teachers the school districts hire everybody they're higher air condition technicians I think executives pair professionals food service across the board so as we go through the legislative process working through adequacy and working with districts on their foundation funding I think that's something that we want to make sure we prioritise as well thank you thank you mister chief thanks senators center flowers you recognized for a question thank you mr chair I have a question about the app scan use is it for school districts you don't lies in the school do do program going to the division of facilities and transportation. Is that part of it. The school direct would be something that a school district may have acquired on their own to enhance what they're doing that wouldn't be part of the abscan data mind just need is there required to resolve that different maintenance purposes yes i'm center that's under the partnership program though that the districts are required to have AAA facilities maintenance schedule and it will use peace call dude it's not school to any more that's on the facility side it's i'm sorry I it's hard for me to hear that this conversation gone on here towards i'll try to get closer or get so that the school dude program is on the facilities and division of acting him if sillies and partnership side that is a contra and it's not school dude anymore i've i've forgotten the name of the the contract we have now but there is a requirement to district use that to show their maintenance and schedule maintenance they have for their buildings but that's not in app scan that is on that's within the partnership program side abscan is used for the on the there's two sides to apps came one side is the east coal side which is that the student side were that the student grades to the information all that is entered into the east coal side and then the other side of apps can is the e finance side and that is the counting system that all school districts are required to use reporting their revenues expenditure and self wait there teacher contracts and all that were in efinet so that's what that's what apps can does so will we see an appropriation. And a recommendation for. The computer network between schools and the division of academic facilities and transportation in their budget that that's that is a contract we have that's in the dad is an appropriation that you will see is not in the public school find that's in the division academic facilities transportation okay and then mr have another question on page two forty six. The funding source is listed as education looks like facility partnership for transfer. Of twenty million plus dollars can you can you explain that to me so yes my own back when we first started facilities acting the agreement sellers and transportation partnership program there were three programs within public school find that were helping at that time pay off the different bines and different payments that districts had for facilities back I don't remember when it actually started but as we pay off those are as it's a submitted bond assistance general facilities finding and I can't remember that one right now but it's in here as as we pay those off there's a a balance left and that balance is transferred to partnership finding to allow us to have it more money for help schools replace buildings or renovate buildings that they need would debt not go to the division of academic facilities and transportation yes ma'am so is that where this is being transferred this. Twenty million plus yes ma'am. Okay well we're not on that budget yet too does correctly thank you. The. Previous cabin off your recognize thank you mister chair my question is going to be if you can just verify this for me on page two forty seven there is the educator compensation reform program it had a fun balance of seven point nine million dollars it looks like that has been transferred into the public. Am scorefund. Is that correct. Yes ma'am and can you tell me what that was used for that was a program that first started we were raising the military to salaries that thirty six thousand so we've moved this in there so that it helps with the teacher salary in the learns act is that correct yes mail okay thank you. The. Represent garner you recognize thank you mister chair thank you all i've got a couple of questions just to clarify one is first of all thank you for being on the tash force or their strategic planning committee from eternal health that's awesome I mean i'm excited about it and so I was really excited to see maternity leave on in the learnt act and. Then I keep hearing that we're not actually paying half of the cost for paying half of the cost of a substitute is that is that true or. And even if so how are schools going to afford to pay teachers to stay off for maternity so great question in thank you so one of the the benefits that we want to add because it is part of teacher recruitment in in part of our statement it is incentivised to recognize our teachers which are offer this material program so we're still in the rules development process for that but we have been given guidance on how that they could balance for that but many districts already have built in it or budget the full car so the salary so the additional supplemental would cost those additional expenses whether they need a long term sub or a short term sub where the district would provide in their plan how they if they would make that match so it's going to be a little bit new onstand different from district at district as we've been navigating it but there's some of these okay a hard moments that we've had along the way size we've got through and with further implementation there may be an opportunity to go deeper and to how we want to provide this support I wouldn't say we fully arrived home on the landing place of how we want to implement this to see this happen I think we're starting to navigate conversations but we're getting really good feedback from districts on how we think we can make this better and I did I do agree they're they're some work to be done in this area great great another question. Thank you mister chair my second question thank you for that clarification my second question is i'm getting some um feedback from the meeting yesterday for the co op's and the fact that those sixty positions may be have. Been realic are the money for those positions could you just explain her so how that's act because the funding hadn't changed it doesn't look like we're allergic that so it's our educational co op sixty people are our educational co ops have been receiving funding from the state and I want to be perfectly clear if if it were there is co op school districts or anybody in the state things that we're just going to do business as usual and fund positions because that's what we've always funded and we don't have a return on that investment they need to know we're going to have a deeper conversation that is not an entitlement appropriation so we have let these co ops now don't just guarantee and expect you going to get this funding we're going to reevaluate how these districts are being supported because the the reality is literacy and numerous data hasn't been improving in the last decade that we've been just giving dollars out the window so we'll officially let them know we may not be giving you these dollars away voters receive them we're going to reevaluate and make sure we're having a great impact on what's best for students and that's what we're always going to maintain our focus on. I get that i'm just wondering what what we're reallocating those funds for to support those what they were exactly designed for we're talking about supporting literacy science and math initiatives were gonna support those initiatives we may not just be doing it the way we've always been doing it so not through the cots but we're still going to have gt programs absolutely we're going to make some stronger what what's happening is we're just giving money to co ops in those dollars are getting water down and not being used intended the way they were designed to be used we're going to make sure these dollars are being used the intended way of their purpose and we're actually going to be elevating the support we're giving the districts I think at a much more cohesive manner instead of a fragmented uncoordinated process that we've been following. Thank you. Revenue of lighting and you're recognized thank you miss chair i'm over here my question is about the merit teacher in senate I get a lot of questions about that program and if i'm looking at this right we had money allocated this year and we didn't spend any and we have that same amount in million. For next year now my question is or are we going to be able to use that money and spend that money because these season teachers out there you don't feel like they've been left behind we've got money allocated so do we have a promulgate rules to I mean what what are the incentive programs and analyts a deep subject but can you give me a summary of how we're going to implement that how we're going to spend that to me to help our season teachers yet great question and i'm i'm guide you brought it up because that's that's one of those things where you know you say we want to recognize and reward our most talented teachers be developing a method to do that it it gets really new one so I always want to remind the legislative delegation as we were kind of going through the rules process or through the learned process we've made a commitment as an agency when i'm going through the rules promotation that we would establish work groups and get their feedback and input so those work groups have been meeting and in fact that's one of the draft rules that we took to our board yesterday is the kind of outlined the process because we do in ten to award those dollars. And II want to give the educators in the administrators in the folks that came together on that a lot of credit for being creative because when you look at measuring impact on student performance it's different and and I have insured this story whether or stay board you know II look at some of the teachers that had the greatest impact on me as a young junior high student I think one of the the programs I learned a most start of as far as life skills are transferable skills was in concert band rate so if that's not a tested subject there and you're trying to measure impact that's really hard to do so this work group was really creative and looking at almost like a tiered approach that starts whether you are highly effective teacher are you mannering other teachers it's stackable on what you can be recognized are you and our geographically challenged location do you teach a hard to staff subject area do you have evidence of impact and we're we're gonna send those rules to our state board to put out for public comment i'm sure we'll get more creative input but our intention is to get that across the finish line because those dollars deserve every penny that we can give them those teachers do I mean so so you will be bringing those to us at some point yes sir alright thank you. Representative here recommends for question thank you mister chairman good morning thank you for being here and all the work you're doing in our public schools and are for school choice my question comes from a number of our districts in northwest arkansas about the school lunch program and the surplus commodities at is not achieving the balance between the federal and state reimbursements for them and so they are carrying over a deficit in their spending locally and just wondered if you could talk to if that is being a drast and how best they can meet that demand to provide free and reduced manches and yet still have some surplus that has not been funded thank you. I think that's a really good question that probably has a little bit complicated new ones to answer in in I and I i'll say as I don't know if we know the answer to that question right now but I do think that's something that we need to work together to look at because no child should go hungary in school districts are never going to let a child go hungry and they are getting those unintended expenses that are private coming other general revenue to make sure they're meeting the basic needs of the students so that that may be an area that we need to identify and opportunity and how do we fell though shortcomings II don't know if I know the answer to that right now but deserve very real realities and concerns that school district species in every single day. Senator patty you're recognized for a question. The. The. Thank you sorry I think he goes start sorry about that I have just about three questions first of all I appreciate the work that you and your team were doing and and just want to encourage eh continued progress like we're seeing here just and and I know that this is kind of a lagging number but the declining enrollment districts just want your thought on with the learns act and and the educational freedom accounts and and kind of the the availability of those what are you see just big picture that fund looking like maybe in the future as we I think we're in twenty two now but as we fully implement the learns act what are your thoughts on the effect of any on future budgets for that line item and then I have a couple of others I think you bring up a good question in it and those are questions that districts us all the time so II as we go through we're we're in your one of implementation III don't want to make assumptions about those patterns and dollars and we want to look at the data and as we're finishing their first year we're gonna have hard numbers we're getting ready to open the window for year to I believe that starts at the beginning and next month we're going to be able to to have real hard numbers but then we're also you know encouraging districts to work with families you know if I tell superintendence is that if if you're getting large numbers of students saying that their parents are looking for other options that at what point that we look in the mirror and say we need to do a better job I mean the needs of our of our students and our families. So I don't anticipate I haven't seen or heard from districts where they're losing large amounts of students and and great growth that that they're not anticipating fact many of our higher performing districts are seeing increases in romance I think geographically there are some regions in the state where there's declining a role in but there's some other economic impacts and in concerns in those areas as well so how can we rebuild communities as part of that conversation so as we go for I think you're right we need to look at the data look at those dollars and make sure that we're we're meeting the needs of the school districts mister couple more thank you in night I agree I was just curious on that when and this is more of a comment before I get to my next question on co ops i'm a very rural district for the most part and and our smaller districts probably rely on coops more so than than some of the other larger more urban areas and so I would hope that we would have the opportunity when funding maybe reallocated and maybe rather they sell to your point earlier we have that conversation as to where it goes and it doesn't just end up you know meshed together with some other funds somewhere and and so and I want to say two cause II get asked this question a lot i'm a big believer in the education coops as well II was a former superintendent and we had consortiums that we had to rely on a small school district has to meet all the same state and federal requirements at a large district does larger districts may have capacity to do a lot of that in house the small rural district doesn't they need to rely on this co op's but the car sustainably be effective in the support that they're providing districts then I think they think as we move for and look at opportunities how do we hope support co ops but then also hold them accountable for student performance as well absolutely and then the last question just to clarification you had mentioned in increase in the state foundation funding you you were referring to. Over the FY twenty three to the twenty four and the twenty four to twenty five because twenty three twenty four and twenty four twenty five are the same as as I see it here there is no increase in foundation funding for twenty four twenty five right now as I see it was that correct. Mister katie thank you mister chair yes there are senator petty the budget request that we receive did not include any increases then foundation but as we learned yesterday the governor has provided in her balance budget and it increase about thirty five million to the foundation aid in recommended funding so we may see a good and associated governor's letter with that in the fiscal session to include that increase okay thank you. Thank you michigan thank you senator. All right ripped into duke your recognized thank you mister chair I have a couple of questions if that's all right my first question is in regards to the learns money and the salary. Getting the teachers up to the fifty thousand my understanding is that in growing school districts that have to add a teacher that they are not receiving any about money to get that teacher up to that fifty thousand dollars that that is their responsibility and if that is correct or we are you all looking are we going to be looking at something to do to help them cause that is a significant budget issue and obviously you need to get them up there to that and to follow along with that one the concern I guess some and of I would say frustration is there a school districts across the state that works really hard to maximise their class from a space in their teachers space so they utilize split classes and things like that to be able to pay better salaries because they maximise their space and because of that they feel a little bit of a penalty because they didn't just go ahead and open up a first grade and the second grade classroom they did a first and second grade split and if they had done that last year even though there may be ten kids in that class they would have that fifty thousand dollars so is that a new one since you guys are looking at and I know that you know that is an issue are you anticipating trying to find some way to address those issues I think those kind of go hand in hand III think the the short answers I think we have to write in in as as we went through with implementation you know when when you're trying to influence the implements something in year one that's so bold and so innovative and so historic there may be an unattended consequence where there are some winners and some losers and now that we have we can run her date and her numbers we can prior read just because we have we have school districts that are losing enrollment which means they may not need as many teachers so their allocation may need to be adjusted as well as school districts that are gaining teachers and they're their dollars are going to go up so while they may get additional funding for additional enrollment there may be some offset balances so II think we've. We've done a really good job school districts have been really creative and innovative implementing year wine but as we're now being able to collect the data and looking forward and as we go through the process would recommendations on the budget for can a year to your three m beyond having a process that will help shore up the shortfalls and pitfalls it is something that I think is a natural ongoing conversation may I follow up so you do anticipate it looking into brightening that part of money up to the other there's new additional teachers that have been added at some less districts I would be looking to make a recommendation to bring to the legislature to say these are some things you could put in place if you have the appetite to do that okay thank you and then my final question is there is nothing procluding districts at this point time if they wanted to do their own teacher incentive rewards could they do that as well on type of what the status doing if now teach school district decides I want to to reward the band program or somebody else they can get bonuses themselves if they can do that this school on their own is that correct absolutely in effect there are many districts that are doing that in fact we actually have some districts in this state that have applied for some federal grants to do just that in there doing some pretty innovative things as well thank you thinking mister chair. Representative wouldn't you back there. Thank you mister chairman mr. I understand it we've made to earn this progress with starling salaries. But the biggest complaint here is about the fact. There's a teacher that has twenty four years in the classroom and is considered a good teacher allow standing teacher. To gather twelve hundred dollars that's all she got and she is well. Rental a teacher process. The most fifty thousand dollars a year first year. Oh I think they're turned back. I know that we need to care to say that. Is criticism of the teacher getting fifty thousand a year because they all deserve more. Two but unpart of what the government calls to as it's quote and let me assure you that doesn't bother me a bit. Because i'm thinking about the other four hundred and forty thousand kids and not those that have been sent to a special school to two others most with girl were to the private school. My first question is what what are you going to do about the salaries sure so first the status quote for you is ranked us forty third in the nation so to me that's not good enough we need to do something innovator we need to do some ball when you do some different second every teacher and the state was funded last year to get at least a two thousand dollar rates if you have a teacher that saying they only got twelve hundred dollars I would as that district what do they do with the dollars that the state provided don't blame it on the district at the state funding the two thousand dollar increase i'm going to argue with you about the districts they're doing the best they can. With what they've got and they're in the situation in a system there is a fair to them. Some particularly smaller schools so they still blaming on i'm not blame ups hand the quest you said you had a constituent they said that they're mannering new teachers and they only got a twelve hundred dollars I would say constituent or the district that constituent works in how is the at teacher solar allocation allocated because our local school board took the dollars that were given in the district and built the solar allocation outs what I would ask them because they should have gotten at least two thousand dollars to help phone the the difficulties that came and forward it but yet those students need to be told. The. So what a week or a day or week on a increase it yourself part of the recommendation is to increase the foundation finding and then work with the legislature through adequacy to determine what that amount is. You have a hundred and six they can see. There they are. Two years or older and your department can you'd get me to those positions is it too here is for years security. And what why I have they've been wonder they remind they could then how many home are budgeting. I don't know if II went mister rogers answer the number of the ones that are budgeted these vacancies cover multiple different divisions whether within our agency so in that isn't necessarily just the department of education we support a lot of other divisions whether it's early learning the northwest technical institute some of those vacancies are where then there some of those have been put on hold basically to see if we need them fill them at this time or is this something we can wait for budget questions their concerns some have been vacated for a while because they're hard to staff areas and they are intended to be filled so I wouldn't say that there's necessarily a shelf life but as we've got a gun to our agency we're looking at every position and before we just randomly approve a position that we've always had we go through a process and evaluate whether that's a priority position and whether that's going to have a direct impact on students and those are the ones that we prioritize in filling maintaining positions just to maintain big government is something that we're not going to continue to do how many him in positions if you turn back here. I would have to we'd have to research that and to do them make sure you get that information next question is what is the. What what is the total cost. Additional costs for loans. Comparing their to what we had before we got large. I don't know i'm not sure if I understand what what the question is like for the different programs associated with learns as far as this has been span or dog to learn. The. Miswalden. Yeah. Mr chair you're recognized wouldn't I can share the other budgeted learns appropriation items so far this fiscal year two hundred and thirteen million has been spent this fiscal year that the learns items and appropriated for fy twenty five the recommendation for budgeted items is three hundred and twenty two million. So that you can tell us. How much learns itself is cost for the changes that have been made. I mean yeah if you wanted to go down I could put that together and show how much this year we've spent there would like where she talked a hundred and ninety million of that was the the salary increases so I know that in public school phone for the teacher equalization it was about a hundred and ninety million dollars that was to get to that fifty thousand or that two thousand and thirty one million was for efa's i'd have to put together II can think they wouldn't put it down but I don't have that impact but I can get that to describe by the line of the world. Mister secretary was you think it's going to cost in europe or and there. Have learned retainers to to maintain his level funding as we can and and continue supporting these initiatives and reciprocity so when when we look at what this investment is it's an investment over a time that if if you would look at what we are requesting from the legislature historically year after a year with a two to three percent increase if we keep this flat it would catch up in about four to five years and just be part of that foundation finding. I under the adequate perhaps yeah alright more question will we. Or will you publicly show the test scores for a private school versus public school. Well I could like you do in the paper now yeah we wouldn't be able to publish individual test scores but if if there is enough students to make a sample size which is typically tan so that you can not have it identifiable that's just standard practice we would be able to post the the scores of those students by the subject areas that they took the exams and if there's enough students to take that assessment will will you prevent the test and we we we required it to be posted on the the public private schools website good require that private schools can you pin point though students that were in public schools and compared their great schoolers to what they had then public school versus what they have in private schools have you got funding for there. Because I would have to check whether the school yeah i'd have to check with our data warehouse to see how they can do that because you're moving from one data system to the next and getting that student matching may be a little bit more a new ones than complicated. But the answer a question the private schools would be posted there again get test scores for their students on their website all the students but not those that were in public school and their voucher to private school. I'd have to check whether our data team II don't know if they were able to build that report. Well you got the handles I gave a lot of letter to your your fellow buster right now thank you mister thank you sir. So the flowers we recognized thank you cheer on the education renewal zones can you speak a little bit about that. Reading the I guess the description and it said it's particularly. Use for schools public schools better in the stress i'm sorry I did use it i'm looking at page to a twenty one cent flowers yes get a little closer to your back right here on it you go now here. I want to know more about the education renewal zones particularly since it indicates a trying to collaborate with. Higher education institutions and public schools too. Ah academic standards particularly in distressed public schools so. You know i'm not sure what the status is of the palm blood school district at this point I think we are on the way out. Of them. State takeover I think they're some kind of link steel there. Do you have an education renewal zone down there in jersey county at pombo school district. So it went what I think we could do for you and that that regards per move a provider no review of all the work that they've done II don't have a friend of me specifically which tester external working with but I know there are partnership with all of our higher collaboratives in our education teacher preparation programs education programs and they do a lot of professional development with principles and teachers and and and leaders across the state so i'd it'd probably be a good idea maybe just get you like a little snaff that report a review of some of the major projects that they've worked on an accomplished because that I don't know if we haven't broken down specifically by which district participated but they may have that information for you what i'd like to know where are these education renewal zones realize that the informed below I don't. Ever recall them not collaborating with service call ups. These education service co absolute i'm wondering what what is the expected result in and what has been the impact of this collaboration with institutions of higher education these service collapse particularly in the districts where you have the distressed school district. Yeah II think it's a great question in we'd be happy to to pull together some date and report insurer with with the delegation I would appreciate it thank you mr we'd appreciate it yeah. The. All right looks like representative lunch from his backer thank you first while I appreciate your attitude i'm sorry i'm over here because we've always done it that way it's not a good way to do it that better is when I require some excellence in some stress. I'm that can we go back to the consolidation thing there's two different lines for consolidation online to thirty three and line two thirty seven it's a conditions to consolidation incentive and a conduct consolidation. Excuse me. Which two different there is an incentive fine and then there's a consolidation fine could you explain to me. That's a lot of money for a declining enrollment districts two thirty seven. In consolidation of two thirty three. You give me a little more information about those two things they seem to be kind of. Similar. So yeah I can tolerate its an incentive fine is where if there's add a situation where to score districts to to consolidate in with each other then the consolidate district that takes over the other district so there is one you out of amb district when that digital conc money that the atm for district a they will continue to get for another two years to make sure that there because the atm is paid on black shoes three court atm and we don't have that in all of when she becomes c so the consolidating center program allows us to make used a broadway for that district to not lose any atm funding and then consolidation have we consolidated any schools so far. I don't have to give I don't I don't have to get there for you sorry now that's okay uhm. Then back on distance learning you have two lines for we have two lines for distance learning at two twenty nine and a two thirty nine one is I understand operations. How many students are we serving long distance. With the distance learning and are we testing their students. Yeah. I don't know what help me stood i'd have to give their student because those are mainly grants to the coops that work with our it coordinators the help with the districts for their district learning of a district has an online class are offering so that's a court partner should that we do through the cops but I can I can see how many kids are in those. I could try to give how many kids are have that one on classes that are taking those but I don't have that with me today either but I can I can get that so we have a lot of different lines for the co ops. This. Is there a is there a way to call that information together of what we're actually doing and are we getting the bang for the buck with I think that's exactly what the sector was time that earlier that we are working on right now and in then. Schools have the incentive or have the opportunity if they have a principle assistant principle curriculum coordinator all these we seem to have a lot of achieved some very few indians their schools have the opportunity to say we don't need three assistant principles or curriculum principles or coordinators and can put that money towards teacher salary. I think ultimately they said the district decision that they could make the way the funding majority works they may add a can you get funded for so many positions but that's how much dollars you receive the how they allocate the. That arm for formula or into turn that into a staffing plan would be up to the school district. Okay so there's no road block for them to. To do that type of thing they don't have to have a whole lot of folks I just want to make sure. There's nothing there's no road now there there are some. Criteria and roll that may not be listed out administrative wise if you're looking at that but as far as staffing ratios for class sizes and media center requirement school counsel some of that is. Part of our standards are very creditation but not active number of people you need at the district offers or in in the front office I don't believe that's part of that mattress okay thank you. Reviewed columns you recognized for a question they miss your chair over here what do you estimate that it will be spending on just a private school vouchers peace and your four to five alerts. So I think that's a good question my understanding near ten minutes to write your champion is that there's a fine number in the in the budget that when we hit that number that's the amount of scholarships that are available on this this past year I don't remember the exact a dollar amount that we've had in in the budget for the appropriation but we were under that appropriate amount for this current year by the number as soon as participating as we go in a year too this budget recommends the double that a lot make there there may be more families participating at that window for their number of families that are going to apply and open goes in next month so we'll have a little bit better number but once that allocation is hit there's a ceiling in that allocation and what I don't remember with the exact dollar amount in this disrecommending budget is but as we work with the legislature that's going to be set with the legislature well I don't your second macco chair has some sort of. It that'll be up to us in a sense and so we set those spirituals and that's why the language was written in the loans and so if we in the end only allocate through revenue stabilization you know fifty dollars to your efa accounts in its fifty dollars they have to be figured out at that point and then they were giving distression to create new rules essentially on how those are allocated and so if they wanted to focus on different. Levels of need but rather be poverty or disability issues or whatever they could then read to find and either but we will be the ones ultimately to set that three year threshold of the maximum amount that can be spit on earth sure and I appreciate that II guess I would say I mean there may be a level that you would be requesting or anticipating to be requesting given what you are projecting for your for five minute I would have to think there would be if you're projecting overall approximately level budget I mean you've got to have something built in there to fill in for the fact so do you have any kind of ballpark for what you'll be requesting or anticipate be requesting at that point II don't think we have that number in mind right now so there's some I could take back with our leadership team and see if we can figure out more for you yeah I would be interested thank you. Representative j richardson you're recognized thank you mister chair. Go again who go thank you good morning john I get really too set super several questions on the hand out that's out on page two on the isolated funding how many school districts are are are getting that funding right now do you know. No II can add had to look into you because asleep funding was written in there's specific school districts it's for specific sorted tricks in that and i'd have to see how many those are still existence I don't have that but I could I can get that for okay I would assume that it's probably going up since two thousand five but it may not know it hasn't so it has when isolated funding law was originally dine okay there was a districts that were listed in there there were a lot of the smaller rural districts that received that the asladed funding and that list has gone down those scored as your favorite consolidated removed moved in with other districts so it's not it that list doesn't change once that list was established that there's getting isolated funding and as they those districts no longer there the other fund balance for that as they are funding amount goes to the special needs isolated funding now in that one there are different districts that can be added based on the situation that they need for that isolated funding if they meet the crack to you for receiving that special exasplated finding but as far as the ask later finding if you look in the law it's it's got a listed are like a page of of school district that received that aspect of funny when it first was established. Okay so with that in with the potential reduction of those school districts then so you're what you were actually deared in FY a two thousand twenty three and in which you guys are budget is like three x. The difference in there so why would it be. Why would why would you go up so much and you've got districts that are falling off which one were in the on page two. Right above the blue lions to thirty one isolated funding. So so the total of so the total authorized for that budget is seven point eight million dollars we spent two point two million dollars last year in it until that balance goes over the special needs asked later that isolated funding is the one that i'm saying there that it will never to ten point eight million dollars will never change there's good there's never going to be any more schools that qualify for that isolated funding okay I get I guess you thank you thank you very much. Ripped in video you get a budget question. You recommend thank you mr chair i'm have a question about the at risk was that to twenty five can you explain what is at risk and how is it distributed to the different school districts the money. So earned the at risk may is used for a help in students when they're preparing to take the act they can use that it's a the helps for I don't remember how many hours of instruction but they can they can qualify to get help with the actions course. I don't have the I can get at just i'm trying to remember from a failing run out but yet that's what is forced to help with the course. Representative springer you have questions yes sir for you are our members of the committee are we going to receive those requested the alchemist set up an s four today other members we're gonna get him out to the members all right thank you thank you. All right member seeing over the questions will entertain a motion for executive wreck. Have a motion a second any discussion. The. I'll stop. All in favor say I opposed. The. Public school for the approved and we're going all now to stay library. The. Thank you mister chair moving to page four of your schedule. This is the public school finding for this state library. The appropriation requesting the manuals on page two fifty one. And as you can see this is the aid that is given to all the local libraries around this state. The request and recommendation is for this appropriation to remain flat at ten million dollars in to twenty five and but it also is you can see their only budgeting and have received funding for five point six million in the last fiscal year thank you mister chairman those are my remarks on the state library public school phone. Any questions for staff or the agency. The. Soon a debate in you are recognized. Thank you mister chair and I don't know if this is a proper time to ask how many libraries qualify for this and I think we had done some special languages in the last session too to try to broaden the spectrum of who could qualify i'm just wondering what the status is on there and how to help affected by this appropriation in mr chair of its ok i'd like to bring there for child code over who's our director of state libraries and would be able to answer any of those appropriate questions may have if you'll identify yourself you can answer the question jennifer chocolate are considered a library. Um. Senator payton I have a spreadsheet with me I don't it's not numbered most of the libraries in the state that are of qualifying libraries do do receive this while all of the ones that qualify do receive state aid under the um under the current standards we are aware of the amendment that was earned in the charge that we were given to increase the number of libraries that do receive state aid to include some that have been in eligible in the past. We have a set of rules that are currently with eighty e leadership for their review before they go on to the governor. Um and so we anticipate that we will be adding new libraries. To the eligibility list in them in the next fiscal year in the twenty five fiscal year so at this point the number library's hasn't changed but. We're proceeding towards that goal that's corrector okay thank you thank you mister chair. Senator solve and you have questioned thank you mister chair how does one qualify to be received state aid and who makes those qualifications the arkansas well the state library board has set those qualifications before they are actually a number is qualifications including the one there is an issue that center patent was concerned about had to do with the way and which the libraries are funded there in current arms standards it is required that the library have a minimum of one mill in public funding to support them that has disqualit has in the past disqualified certain libraries for him being able to to receive stay today because they are too smart maybe I asked the wrong question I apologize so is the if the policy a promigated so once you have all those criteria are those criteria promulgated or is it just up to the the discretion of the library board they are prominent okay thank you so we are waiting on new rules to be prominent thank you thank you mister. Seeing no where the questions will entertain emotion for executive library of emotion and a second any discussion I would have favourite they are in your post that has proved and were going to our last one which is the career technical education miss walden thank you mister chair on page five of the schedule that I prepared item d you'll see the public school found requests for the division of career education there are four line items and they begin on page two fifty five of your manual they include vocational startup grants locational center aid career education services and the career coaches peace of the public school fine as you can see from this schedule there are no requested increases. For any of these line items. And so there's no recommendation for an increase one thing I do want to mention to the committee today even though within this schedule there's no increase on that second line vocational center aid that said it twenty one point eight million and it's at this time to continue at that same amount. We also learned yesterday that in the governor's balance budget she recommended a four million dollar increase for this line to increase the funding for those career centers in the districts so we might see a governor's letter at some point but this is what the request is today those conclude my comments mr chair all right members where the question do repeatedly hate how euro reps you're recognized I was thank you for all the work you're doing and career and technical education is very important to all of our school districts and and our students seventy five seventy to seventy five percent of our students can really benefit from those that training and go directly into the work force so thank you for coming up and speaking to us on on these issues as we continue to work on this mr weight and mister warden especially a doctor and leave it thank you. But the question my question is the definition of a locational center aid and how many of those are technically called that and how many of them are you know that this is so hard to find out how to get this aid to the right locations and to those students that really could benefit from career and technical education funding. Kind wardened visit of higher education I would be ross what our director of a creek technical education as as you may recall the division of career technical education was a line with division of higher education last july in an effort to streamline and coordinate our arka twelve and hired efforts and so i'm really pleased to do that because I think it enables us to really. The lab rate or or build out the vision of one continue of education and our state and I think there's efficiencies that you're going to see through this as we move forward and to get to your question that I just want to start with that so that's people don't always associate the vision high educationally crew technical education but secondary edge of case is posted in your education baffling the two mistake or not going to do that anymore so to your point we have a thirty one. That better we have thirty one secondary career centers in the state those are regionally located so to best serve the state in its entirety in a perfect world would have vocational technical center on her hospital campus but that's just really with the account of the skills we have is it is not possible so we have those reasonably located but the vast majority of those are attached to colleges or in some cases universities so that the students are tending those also receive concurrent credit which is a big deal for us we know there's a linear effect a concurrent credit education a student that takes one concurrent credit class no matter what it is is twice as likely to receive a post secondary credential as someone who does it and as a linear effect that the more hours that they take in high school the more app they are to receive your credential so we want to lean into that and also try to grow that those were decided some time ago on the geographic location the funding that the way that's funded is the funds come to ard division through through this body in this budget process but we pass those phones over to the department of commerce and office of skill development the accident of skill development funds those centers based on full time equivalency of the number of students that they have and they their board sets a tiered funding model so there certain degrees that they are determined by that board to be a high girl todd demand receive more funding then some of the others and then they fund those students so we actually they they verify enrollment and do those things but the money really passes through us in that funding mechanism is coordinated in management by the office of skill available in an apartment department of commerce I hope that helps not the rental question. Reviewed of college who recognized for question. Thank you mister chair yet there's one thing I feel like we all agree on it's that work forces a huge issue in our state we need a better educated better train work force so I guess i'm a little surprised that we have a flat budget here and i'm wondering is it do you guys feel like we've we're doing all we can we don't really need to make any more investments you know in in this area and. If you don't what would be an area that you do think that we should make some some more significant investments. So having told automotive service for nine years and being a blake believer in and couragiation and technical education but the continuing education no matter where you measure where behind. But particularly in career education building those devices out but not so so being sure that people understand that education and hired just case in entitlement or one of the same they're not usually exclusive things and having pathways from technical degrees to battery degrees in beyond is a big deal so to answer a question I would love to see more investment in our college universities and increase technical education I think it's one of the best rouse that we have as a state is to enforce although wealth distribution to garage states economy but also distribute so that all of our citizens are prosperous prosper and have the opportunity to do that through the path that they choose to distinguish themselves whether that's career related education directly to work military or traditional academic time well I return to agree but can you tell me with any more specificity about what programs within that kind of brad area were there items within this that you feel like could merit some more investment buyers. So we have in our continent continued to hold a list of how weight high growth jobs. And that list does vary in it also varies by the region of the state we mounted those things in this particular instance with the office of excuse me the office of skill development department commerced its basically a line to the target industries that are the department of commerce airs so that those tears in those list those target industries that that we know either have demand for now or we want to attract those industries to our state so we want to build a pool of work for so that we can more better attract those industries are accentuated and funded at higher levels so we do have some mechanisms in place to assure that not all credentials not all of those things are waited equally that that we have incidents in place for the secondary centers to offer the programs that are on our demand list and things that we want to use to enhance economic development okay well if you'll need more please let us know because I think it's a big frightening for many of us thank you. Ross white director for the division of care and technical education I do want to add one piece in there that I think would be remissed if we didn't chair so when we look at this from the secondary critters create center side that are on those campuses you know those are kay twelve students but then we also have in a creditation that all of our ca twelve schools have to offer career in technical education programs and so there is an expectation on every single school public school district campus that it's happening there is well and what we see a constant struggle there is we start to have a conversations around a quickman if we're training our students with appropriate workforce ready equipment that is a huge cost and it said ever changing costs and ever updating piece we receive federal dollars so carldy perkins funding that helps supplement that but as a state we only receive fourteen million that split between secondary and post secondary and when you do all the math down to what they're getting it's a very small part of money and we obviously are able to fund our instructors and pieces there but the equipment seems to be a re occurring piece that our schools are k twelve schools as home campuses that is a constant struggle I mean how we maintain equipment and stay relevant with what our business and industry is requesting from the area so I think some been if you're looking and thinking future what those things be that is always a large conversation that we have. The. Previous hope you recognized again thank you and I appreciate that mr white and I did bring up another question that I have and that is when our high school students are taking courses that are offered at post secondary centers and yet not receiving the same accreditation or certifications is there a way that we can when a student graduates from high school and they have taken so we can reduce the redundancy I guess as my question that they can go into the work force being certified and so on so i'll i'll start with these gentlemen jumped in I think what you're when you're talking about opportunities and in a way tend to like talk about funding but II think before we start really rolling up our sleeves determined those dollar amounts we got a look at our system and make sure it's coordinated in a and I think the realities and it's not anybody's fault i'm not here to play fingers but sometimes what the schools are doing in their school districts you have a high quality programs where students earning industry credentials may be the earning concurrent credit and maybe they're getting those real life work skills that should be transferable to another institution the reality is depending on where that student goes every institution has their own criteria of what they're going to accept so sometimes we're now double paying for a course work that a student had already died or were frustrating the students are putting in an an additional financial bird in on that student so we've been working with our work force cabinet the governors recognize that there's a lot of different people in this space we've already heard what we talk about office because of element we we talk about secretary of commerce in their initiatives we have carol perkins federal grants we have hired institutional programs they have key twelve four time equivalency finding are we all working towards the same vision and that's one of the things that mike rogers and all of us we've all rolled up partly to say. We're going to have a common definition when when you talk about what is that that each three high school highway tied demand passway. We're all going to see the same thing and all of our grants are going to say this is what we've identified as a state or by these regions that are the passwords that we need to be building for so as as we work forward and start rolling out this vision for a different pathways for students there is opportunity that we're going to be probably coming to the legislature for say we need some support to have a common course code directory that all the state college in universities are going to follow because right now it's it's not coordinated in in the should be and then there's some things that we we know that we can ascend advise on school districts to offer these pathways that are meeting those high school demands in making sure that whether their students going to to military into the work force or maybe they want to continue the education they can take what they run with them and necessarily system that we're going to be creating and where we're going through to make sure that all of our systems are funding are aligned with that because we we don't want to duplicate the equipment we talk about that but if we're all trying to fund it from different pots and buy parts that don't talk to each other that's not efficient either so this is something we've recognized that is much needed and we're going to continue to work I don't know doctor word if you want to add to that i'll just give you one concrete example next week we're having our current technical tech court criteria education coordinators CD coordinators. From higher ed and from k twelve in the same room saying don't come at this unless you've taught you partner don't comment us unless you talk to uk twelve partner because we're too tall mistake not to maximize all the efficiencies that we have and this these work this work has been done in some communities but were molling this continue magic continue of education at the state and we're going to expect that our communities because we've got to do that for the benefit of of our young people or an annual returners that are coming back to us so appreciate ross and his work in his van and you know all the other opportunities that we have we're no longer hired k twelve separate you know solos were working together and bring very intentional about that with hospital plumber work all the way up with cte and beyond so. Hope that helps. Representative right if you're recognized question thank you miss chairman i'm way over here oh here the command about the equipment at the schools I understand that's that's a problem but my question is we are reviewed some of the local officials went to the value school few weeks ago and they had some awesome equipment there. And i'm not sure how they got it I mean they had equipment there in their medical training unit that the hospitals in jones will don't even have I don't have to get that but my question is I worked in industry for many many years in some of the companies I work for would work with the colleges and would provide equipment to the colleges to train those students to be able to come right into the work for so these private companies have funds available for that my question is that can the high schools a go for that money can they get those grants directly. It from the from the company or the entity to the high school is that allowed. Yes or absolutely I mean it depends on you know I guess the the will of the find three or the company the screen the money how they see it best bet the best models that we see our when communities bring themselves together leverage all their assets and so that when these companies donate things whether the receiving end is the physical agent is the institutional farcation of the care twelve entity that they know that's being leverage to the benefit of all because we're very rural we've got many miniscule districts in any institutes of our education that will we want to encourage our communities to come together through these cake twelve intentional k twelve higher partnerships and approach their industry partners and show that they're together so that when those those tools of those training age aren't being used by by the high school that they can be used by the college students or that if they're concurrent credit to get yeah can current cut it together and then. Also what about incumbent workers can we levers those to train it up skill are incoming workers at the same time so I think that the magic sauces given our communities together that never understand what their new ones assets are and then combining that with albright phoning so the ride duplicating to help all the but but absolutely I mean we'll whether you whether they want to write to check to the department elementary secondary harriet or or one of our districts were happy to take it so there's no legal role blocks the local schools doing that no served there are some some institutions are much more robust and how they approach that and have foundations in search that they you know so they handle their business little differently but there's no rules against that also thank you. Okay marriage that concludes questions where to take a motion for executive wreck on the career technical we have a motion in a second any discussion I will in favor of they are in your pose stands approved the strange we get any other business folks we are through appreciate the good work tomorrow morning nine o'clock we're going to store with public safety and health we are journal.