Joint Performance Review (JPR)

Morning ladies and german members and guest welcome to the drawer performance review first item on the agenda be to approve the minutes from our last committee meeting and I have a most have motion and the second on favor say I all oppose motion passes thank you I hope the wrap these proceedings up eleven by eleven thirty at the latest and. And then we'll determine any future actions on the matter before us so I want to think the staff in members for for being here today especially in there's been some with us not being in session until tomorrow so I appreciate everybody showing up today just like in the past we will take questions from comedy and non committee members if you would just go ahead and ask if you have two or three questions to ask or ahead without asking for a follow up our cuts off at the appropriate time and put you back in the queue are witnesses as in the past will be providing sworn test moaning when they come to the table and i'd ask our witnesses to please keep your responses is short but answer the questions thoroughly if you would please and at this point i'll yield to my cohost sinner hammer for any opening comments seeing none the committee calls mr alarms of jiles. The. The. Just mr jales we don't need to count so i've been allowed to council they need the other witnesses thank you this is not a criminal proceeding. Mr johns if you would raise your right hand. Do you saw me swear that test when you're about to give shall be the whole the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth they help you got thank you please be seated if you would turn your microphone on state your name and your position for the record. My name is a lands of jails i'm with the board of corrections thank you mister johns thanks for being here and so the question of every committee meter meeting did mr medicard again provide you need advice for your test money today no so okay so how about any of the board members of the compared notes are discussed what your test money you might be for today i'll get great thank you and one question that I have for you did you vote on the services contract there were submitted to the legislative council. As a board member. Yes you did the services contract yes for the attorney. The contract that were that this is all about no sir you did not vote on that okay did you ever see the services contract before it was submitted to the legislative council no sir okay do you think it's up proper that the entire board was not allowed to see the car track. I don't know sir okay do you think it was proper that they boards attorney did not communicate the material changes of the contract including changing the price in the contract. The. You don't know if it was appropriate for him to change the. Before the contract was sir ratified changing the price in the contract. The. What i'm trying to find out is if the contract was changed do you think it's appropriate that he changed the contract without the knowledge of the board if it contract was changed I don't think that's appropriate I don't know if the contract okay are any questions from the committee. Sooner hammer you recognize good morning sir who would give us from your perspective your knowledge base of what you know about the contract in anything surrounding the contract as a board member such as when did you first become aware of it the discussion surrounding it that you might want us to know about it was. Anything in your knowledge base about the above to contract you think we are now. Um. No sir I don't. Don't really know much about the control. Okay so you didn't participate in a conversation about it either in its origination or. Anything after after it became signed in initiated I knew that there was a contract I was involved I was not involved in it at all so sir okay thank you so mr johnson I guess. As a board member of the border corrections did you have any interest in the fact that there is a contract floating around there that was going to be approved contracting with an attorney for over two hundred thousand dollars. Should aboard member know about that yes sir okay and you did not. I mean I knew there was a contract but I was not it was ten two hundred thousand and negotiations on the count okay thank you center bright you recognized thank you mister chair thank you I know you you had to be compelled to be here today out of the newer seatings we've had regarding the subjects i've always seen your name on a list but we were never great by your presence and are you got a lot of things going on probably professionally and personally my concern is that you're your inability to be attentive to these meetings and be present seems like it might affect your ability on the board of corrections as well can you address why you had recompelled to be here versus coming along with the other port members I would have been here today without being contail but. Um as you said personally right now my number one. Focus is taken care of my family my focus and have not missed any board of corrections meeting since i've been on the board so I don't. I don't see. I just say that other things going on at the time. Center hammer. Okay thank you mischild's based on comic to just made you said that you've not missed any of the board meetings since you been on the board as that correct downstairs correct yes sir. So as far as your knowledge of the contract or discussions around the contract. How could you not be aware of the contract or anything. Surrounding the discussion of the contract if you haven't missing meetings I didn't say I wouldn't aware of the contract I said I was not involved in any negotiations okay what are your thoughts about um. What are your thoughts about having a three minute meeting to decide to award the contract after just a three minute meeting that had been mentioned in previous testimony and here could you just give us your thoughts on it all I had voted against this. He voted against the contract I did okay. And you really voted against it would be why. At the time I didn't know if it was the right thing to do. And what would lead you to think it wasn't the right thing to do just at the time I had in feel like that it was the right thing to do. Zap based on not enough discussion about it based on discussions that were had that contributed to you not feeling the right thing to do I mean I said at the time I knew something needed to be done okay but I didn't know if that was what needed to be done and not so I voted against it at the time. Okay alright thank you for the correct I mean be mistaken but I think the first cot the first question I asked you mister jowell's was did you vote on the services contract that was submitted to legislative council and you said no. So which you're just telling senator hammer that you voted no on the contract. Synergist man you recognize. I think with the way that I remember it spent the last since i've looked at the minutes but you know essentially you know there was a day's worth of agenda there was an executive session that was called everyone comes out of development I don't have the timing informed me now comes out of the executive session goes to the lunch and comes back and then this very short window there was a vote on the original contract with mr with apt and it was later on when they had the. Though to try to fix would they had voted on before in that original vote mr jowell's went to the. Executive session or meeting came out when the lines came back to this meeting and bought it now whenever they voted to approve average contract. Alright thanks center dismantled and representative ray recognized okay thank you mission chairman. Mr jals appreciate you being here today. I guess I just want to start out by asking you the previous meetings there. Joint performance review committee has had related to this topic were you invited to those meetings. Yes sir. Okay is there a particular reason that you. Declined the invitation to attend the brief all of the previous meetings well the other two meetings died spoke with miss g alerted you that I had other things going at the time. Interviews stuff. What what were the other things that per had a couple of interviews. It interviews with for jobs okay okay. The. Did did you not feel that it was important to have yesterday I felt it was important. Try and be here. Important to be here yes sir. The. Okay. Well. It clearly wasn't more important than what you were doing those days otherwise you would have made the choice to be here when you agree. Was it's also important for me to try to support them of them. That's important to me as well. Did you feel like it conveys a certain level of. Dismissiveness or disdain for the. Process of this committee that you basically had to be compelled to be here I would have been here there was no adding have to be compared to day to be here I would have been here okay. Appreciate your answer in that. I know i'm sorry I don't have the the actual transcript in front of me but I want to ask you there was there was a meeting and I apologize I can't remember the day because I don't have the transcript in front of me. But there was a meeting where the board was. Having a discussion about procuring the services of an attorney for you know for for this matter and I believe it was board member brainfield. That made a comment about. Hey we need to make sure we do this now we don't we don't go a foul of the law do you remember you at that meeting yes sir. Do you remember him saying that yes. In the transcript it said that they're there was an audible laughter. Do you remember who was laughing. When he said that. No sarah don't have any no. Would it about it was it a collective laughter was everyone laughing or it was just one person do you. You remember probably several people but I don't know who was laughing or you one of the ones I was laughing now. Okay you don't you didn't find that to be funny that. He was suggesting that. Everybody else. Take a step back and make sure that everything was done in accordance with the law. I don't think it was a joke though. Okay. The. You said that you said you said a moment ago that you don't know much about the contract. What why is that. I was not involved with with the contract. Have you read it. I've read it now I didn't ahead and yes i've read it. Okay had you read it at the time that it was. Being considered for a vote. No. Okay. It. It just seems to me like. Based on the answers that you've you've given to the questions here that. It sounds like you have other things on your mind and that the work of being a member of the board of corrections is. Almost a distraction for you do you feel that way or no sir I started I started doing service. On death row in nineteen eighty seven. With man working with man in the prisons and staff is being a passional man for every since that time. So it's not a distraction for me I feel like it's it's a an important word and it's not a distraction like I said I hadn't missed any board meetings this is my second time being on the board of corrections and it's it's a passion to work in corrections for me. Okay all right thank you for thank you for being here today. And mr johnson you said that you didn't read the contract but you boated against it would have been not been better to abstain from boating if you didn't even know what was in the contract. When I voted there I don't think there was a contract I voted against that like I said I don't I don't remember their being a contract at the time okay and in relation to the subpoenas and our representatives raised questioning and I think mister medisadigan made the comment in argancie democratic is that that it was a waste of time and money just a paraphrase and that that the legislature should have better things to do than to address something like this and but I will tell you that this body we spend a lot of time and effort to ensure there are taxpayers tax dollars or or taken care of properly and we have some fiscal responsibility that's our duty to ensure that that's accomplished in any time that we have to submit a subpoena because people not show up is because we want answers to questions and that's why you're sitting here today in my mister medizonic and was recalled to to be here today so with that being said let's go to center boy. Thank you mister chair pastor jales thank you for being here today I perceive you showing up in and being well and answer so up first question is. And you're roll as a board of corrections member what training have you received regarding the freedom of information act. Yeah. No training is so you don't recall any training on the frequent information. How many members communicating together on board business constitution meeting. I think it's too. Okay so two. Okay next question is is the board of corrections in your belief a creation of our state constitution or the state legislature say that again the board of corrections is it a creation of the state constitution or a creation of the state legislature. The. I think is both. Can I see you think border corrections is is created in the constitution. Yes. Okay. So then do you also believe that you yourself for a constitutional officer yes sir. Okay. Center did you recognize mr chair thank you mister jales as somewhere a line of of questions i'd love to get your thoughts on i'm related to who do you believe the border corrections is accountable to. Of course I think you we are countable to disbody. Yeah. The legislature that's helpful and so when I think about the questions we've had and pass committee meetings with your colleagues. We've been trying to understand where that true accountability lies in where the reporting mechanisms are. In it it's struggling to see when we'll members of the border corrections are missing these meetings like yourself. Not responding back to calls from these members here to you try to understand not only what's going on with your team and with you in the board but also understand what's going on personally and so because the questions were getting filled from our districts we don't have answers to you and we're trying to find those answers and that's why we're gonna do it so I love your answer I want you know I love your answer about your family being number one priority. Dash that is the correct answer. The problem I have is trying to understand your heads they would personally would not be able to attend meetings not be able to respond quickly to members here on questions that we're trying to find answers to it i'm going to understand from you have you considered stepping down off the board knowing that people have asked for that what how would you respond to this those folks and no have not considered stepping down from the board okay so do you do you for like taking care of your families you just settled your top priorities still being done in anything in your personal life is not affecting your ability to do your job to the utmost of your ability sir i've done my job well you haven't responded to us in that I believe that's a party of job you just told us it was part of your accountability and it's not being done here so that's why i'm trying to understand what i'm here today. Can I thank you miss sheer. Sender dismantled recognize and thank you in another appreciate you being here today because I think he probably have a little bit of different insider had a different perspective than clearly some of your colleagues on the board you know about how this process played out on hiring an attorney in it and so I think it is a valuable digit just to be able to if you have anything that we can kind of better understand about what happened with that process it's helpful because the way that we've seen it and I don't know if you had a chance to go back and maybe gonna watch but some the previous questioning became it's it's just really hard to follow about. You know who exactly was in charge of hiring the attorney maybe it's not hard to follow I think it's just that there was any real process as followed on our you got to the meeting that executive session that you all had that day about I think the secretary at the time and it you know it's been their test money that there was never a discussion in that meeting about hiring an attorney that it was all about it rightfully so you wouldn't have been able to talk about it but in that executive session just about the the secretary in his job performance were or whatever it may be that the how you recall that same meeting was there discussion in that executive session about hiring and attorney. No it was dealing with the performance of the secretary former secretary yet in an I mean I think rightfully so I wouldn't have asked it staying out of probably going to know too if I walked out of that went to lunch and then came back and matter of minutes was the number one we need to hire an attorney which you weren't you you weren't made preview of that there had been a conversation going on for months about hiring an adjourning and then number two who were we were going to hire without any tab of adding process for anything else and so the only thing else you'd like to shared maybe on whether any of the discussions about about that because if our you out of in pretty frustrated to walk into a meeting and then on the spite being asked and told that I whether we're going to hire an attorney it's going to be this particular attorney and that's the end of the discussion and seems like everybody else is known what's going on and maybe you did not at your own fault by the way I agreed in the meetings but it anything else you'd like to add or. Comment you might have that surrounded there because. For us. The most disappointing thing is is I feel like this was all done intentionally behind the scenes and again. Appreciate any response that you'd have. Like I said I had at the time didn't know if that was the right thing to do so I voted against it I know that something needed to be done former secretary with tried to have an open communications with him at the time for a several months that there was not happening and so I knew that something needed to happen I just didn't know if if what was done was the right thing to do at the time. Center hammer you recognize. Thank you under a basis of the testimony is gave their center displaying them ask you and you go back to what you said earlier. It is that a question of not the right thing to do and that's why you didn't vote for it or you saw something that was wrong with the way it was being done and that's why you voted against it and this I know if it was the right thing to do at at the time just got intuition cannot deal here. Okay right anything in the process that contributed to that belief that it wasn't the right thing to do no sir just sometimes we just do it on the basis what are good tells us to date the right thing to do and and that is out what you like then feel like it was the right thing to do at the topic thank you thank you center hammer and represented met brown bigger mischair has also over here on the rating side. Yeah. Pastry jars and apologize your answer this how long have you been on the board of corrections. This is my second time i've been on a three years now. I saw three years total. And in those three years has the board ever considered a contract for professional services. Whether it be for attorneys accountants any sort of professional i've ever had anything before the board before not like this has the board ever had a contract for two hundred thousand dollars for services to the board itself come before it before. Ah yes all right can you remember the last time that happened. Not off the top of my head but we're approving contracts all the time but and i'm talking about for the board itself not for the department of corrections but for the board. I'd think this the first time the previous time when you had a large contract that you approved the partner corrections to dim meaninglass three minutes. Um. It usually done doing business north of board. Meetings. But did the discussion last three minutes those previous times. Some other maybe I mean are you saying the regular board contracts are you talk regular board a corrections contract or contracts like this when for the attorney were both. Sometime they last less than three minutes. But you've never had it during your time on the board you never had a contract for services to the board itself like like this one no sir I think this designed charter water through for everyone and so three minutes was spare on something that was uncharted waters is that correct. Yes sir thank you chair. Represent springer. Thank you mister chair good morning how are you my question has to do with your wearing list of the proceedings that lead to the contract or you did you participate in the court proceedings prior to the contract being in to you you do want to worry that there was some court proceedings you want you know well I mean that happened before the court proceedings I think that the board the contract we talk about today or was it after the could proceed so you're wear that you were in the courts in the court authorized you all to get your own attorney did you do you have any knowledge about this where you were you there were you aware of the ruling have you read the really so you are aware that the court allowed you odds indicated that you are good how your own council I need to know thank you. And mr johnson understand you are up the aware of the court proceedings but are you also aware that the the judge is ruling did not give the border correction authorization the circumvent state criminal laws is that correct. Um yes sir okay thank you and seeing no further questions from the committee you're excused thank you. And I committee calls uh lanima castle please. And if you would if you raise your right hand. And do some swear test money you're about to give some bidder truth the whole truth nothing but the truths have begun take your seat please and state your name in your position for the record line of my castle and border corrections miss mccastlin thank you for being heard of mister medius argument by junior vice on your test money today well I think he attempted to at the last meeting but now he did not okay so did you vote on the services contract that was submitted to legislative council the procurement contract yes okay did you ever get to see the services contract before it was submitted to legislative towns. Do you think is proper that the entire board was not allowed to see the contract. That's an anything that happens that is bored business that we are not all involved in is not proper. The I heard about it here this at the same time I guess some of the other members heard about it was here. Okay do you think it is a proper that the board's attorney did not communicate material changes to the contract with the board. I thought it was unusual because normally in practice when you are negotiating a contract it's going back and forth if you make changes to it you would highlight it or notice it so I getting that here the first time I heard it II did think that that was unusual I think the whole thing was unusual though the more i've heard about it in the I think in the boards mind and again I wasn't on the board when they did the when they decided to hire the contrary I was in the audience but I was not on the board at that time in my mind they had a contract when they had the engagement letter I mean that's typical for a term so when they move to try to. Rectify the mistake that they had made and they did the contract II think that probably this is just what I have deduced from listening to it is that they thought that it was just a procedure they didn't really believe that it was a new contract within when the the terms changed then it kind of got a little bit messy. Okay thank you so hammer you recognize. I've tried to give my mind around the time frame when one did you join the board valentine's day after the contract to direct correct well that which one are you talking about the engagement letter because their contract was done in march. So it was done that I think the fifth of fifth and sixth of march I was on the board I just didn't know about it I mean we did none of us knew about it. So your first and i'm just trying to my mind read your first. Knowledge of the contract was during the three minute meeting my fault of no my first of the procurement contract it was here when I was listening to you are question benny chad and buyers debirs that's when I found out about it. Okay welcome back the human thanks in a him or so I missed castle did so you know of the engagement letter but the services contract you that had not seen that or seen any the changes or anything that was made to that contract prior to it being before the legislative council could even know that was in existence okay thank you and center gilmore you're recognized that he was cheer thank you miscastle for being here so I don't want to follow some of this testimony so that you know there's been some discussion about contract with what's contract gatric letter procurement agreement service agreement all the different things I think we can all agree that all of those things are contracts from an attorney standpoint and I see you know on your head so i'll take that as a yes so that being said when the service agreement was signed that's an agreement to do business with the state of arkansas would you agree with that are you talking about the engagement letter no i'm the engagement letters with the attorney which is also a contract I think we agree on the procurement the procurement document the services agreement the standard agreement that if you want to do business with the state of arkansas has to be signed. That's that's the one i'm talking about so would you agree with that that. Yes okay. So it's troubling to me than here in your testimony that you didn't even know about that you weren't even aware of that you never even saw that is that not troubling to use a board member ok so I think that then leads me down this past the end because i'm congress of the fact that in a recent board meaning you voice some concerns about transparency with the board of corrections and one of the things that you brought up that I think needed to be done was have some sort of a live stream of board meetings just said that there's more transparency can you share why you brought that up and I think there was a motion made maybe you made the motion I don't remember exactly who but can you talk about why you think that's important I thought it was important just because of everything that's been going on when we were there was a lot of what I called pop up meetings where they were if this was even before I got on since since all of this has happened there were emergency meetings there were meetings and then the press was coming in we were on the phone the press is having to use the conference room and if the public like like if my commissioners wanted to see it then they would have to physically come up there but if they were off and they wanted to tunion by you know what you too or whatever it just would have been more transparent and it would just been easier for the public to see what was going on. And I think that it would also help us as a board just to be make sure that we're clear we know that we're being an observed we can be clear about what we are discussing and everybody can just be on the same page I just thought it was more transparent no one a telephone I agree I think it is more transparent because what we've identified and i'm curious to know your thoughts on this all you identify through this process is it's just that there's a lack of process that we have identified and so if if we see that from this standpoint I think you was a board member have to see that as well being brand new coming into this and then certainly not knowing what's happening decisions are being made decision decisions enter into contracts for over two hundred thousand dollars for being made within a three minute time period I mean there's there's so many things so are those do you agree that there is a lack of process in that concerns you just from your standpoint as a board number are you asking for my opinion okay so what are okay so being in the audience and observing what was going on and how business was being conducted from probably november I would say november forward what I believe and what are absorbed in having spent at like several hours in meetings with the board I believe that you have really good people with really good intentions trying to do the best that they can for the mission that they've been assault okay I believe that because a lot of them have been on the board for so long it's it's just like someone that's been in office for so long it gets a little bit relaxed and you're just so accustomed to do when it a certain way and as I felt like it needs to be a little more professional a little bit sharper. And more process and that there needs to be more communication in you know I know. The members have been on there for so long they know the job inside and out and I think it sometimes it's easy to slip into that mode of what will just get it done I know what the boat's going to be in so. In my mind we're just gonna clean it up a little bit as I said I think the intent is good I think we can always do our jobs better and that's what I hope to bring to the board. Thank you thank you mister chair. Thank you senator gilmore center board you're recognized thank you mister chair and this per castle and thank you for being sorry where are you I just when I asked some of the same questions I asked her and then modify one of us what you know since you're newer to the board what training have you received regarding freedom of information act otherwise known as for well I have had some just through the parallel board. Okay but nothing specific when you join the board of correct now but we're about to do that you're not okay yes get that on my agenda to add to the bed to our agenda. Perfect i'm glad to hear that so then as the follow up to that is. How many members of the border corrections communicating together on board business constitutes are meeting more than one were the one so two or more than. The next question is you know we've had some discussion about whether board of corrections members are constitutional officers or night and i'm not going to ask you on your your opinion on that but I did find the office of personnel management policy directive thirty one and at least constitutional officers as governor lieutenant governor secretary state treasurer of the state attorney general commissioner state lands auditor state member of arkansas house of representative representatives in member of arkansas in it and then it goes on to identify state agencies as every board commission and department. So have you all had any discussions since this revelation that you know supposedly the border corrections of members are constitutional officers stop at the update that office of personnel management no sir okay not that I know thank you fairness that occurred thank you. Representative springer thank you mr chair I just wanted to state for the record that I believe in following policies and procedures and I often time help disagreements with some of the people that out we'd be car site insist we follow or policies and procedures so my question to you I just want to make that comment by for question the europe are the same ones that I had for the board and member jails is whether or not you were aware of the court proceedings prior to europe becoming a member of the board was aware of them yes just because I was in the audience when it was all happening in you know just payment tension to what was going on thank you thank you miss mccast on single further questions from the committee you're excuse at what she can just want okay center chest field can late to the gang thank you thank you mister chair and thank you for allowing me to ask a question as a non member of the committee one of the things it troubles me as a part of this body is the meetings that happened before the meetings because many times will you come into this body and we. We find out that people have already discussed was gonna happen does that happen often as the board at the board of corrections even in your noones are their meetings before the meetings similar to what happens you probably but II mean if i'm not you know if i'm not in that meeting I would know about it but there are some of us who are in the meetings and then they're some of us were not in the meeting yeah well I mean i'm sure that it's happens that. It's hard it's it's it's so hard when you are standing next to a board member not to mention about something that's on the agenda and so we just have to be conscious of it all the time as a member of the school board I remember we would get in trouble if we talk to each other about anything because two people did constitute a meeting and so i'm sure that you guys are very commonly of that i'm wondering about your feelings on amendment thirty three to the constitution I am not going to respond to that at this point. And I just want understand and thank you so much for your clarity and thank you so much for your honesty I appreciate my much thank you. We have a few more questions and who do I just punch out me missed that brown good thank you mister chair mr castle and if I understood the timeline correctly you came on to the board after the engagement letter but before the services contract correct sense you've while you're at the board meetings and then what you join the board. At any time was it brought up either formerly or informally any discussion whatsoever about the board potentially attempting to wave sovereignty on behalf of these behalf of the state and services contract I never heard that until I was here in in your young mentioned it and this question I know so we have been at a hands right now they. If this had been presented the services contract have been presented to you as a board member would you voted for it. The. No. Do you believe. That you were kept in the dark regarding the services contract because you would have been a no vote. You know I don't I don't think so I don't think that. The. There was only maybe I can't remember what debts tested money was but i'm not so sure that it wasn't just chad in benny that knew about it at the time i'm i'm not even I don't even know for sure if dubs knew about it at the time speaking of other witnesses you mention their test money have you had an opportunity to listen to the test might the other witnesses have given in this matter. Yeah yes are how many of those witnesses said anything that you disagree with you find to be untruthful. I don't think so all right thank you miss chair. Thank you representative brown and my good friend representative working thank you chairman. Um. My question deals with. You have a lot of opinions about the board and how they operate in that thing. Did you gain that after going on the board are the four did you hear those opinions before you went on the board. My opinions probably I think I think that's a very good question I think my opinions probably of the board are. Better now than before I went on the board now aside from all the controversy I have been in executive session with them for about ten hours a week ago trying to hire people in I really do believe that they have they want to do the best I can for the site of arkansas for the department of correction I really believe it I would prob I probably had a worse opinion before I thought on the board then I do now actually so did. In the discussions. In the discussions with the governor's office about your appointment to the board the day share anything with you about their feelings about the way the board was was operating or the department of corrections was operating my meetings with them. There was some frustration with some staff but my my meetings with the man one meeting with the governor it was not discussed it went were more talking about me well with you but but the word discusses where the governor staff related to their first rating well I mean i'm not going say discussions I think that they were trying to pick them you know trying to make the best selection that they could cause it we had had a little rough patch there so I mean it was already in the news so I knew I was aware of it it wasn't like a big discussion they were more focused on whether I had skilled in the closet you know that's really where the focus was but I was very aware of the frustrations I mean I think everybody in the staff will just from the two different. You know it really was more about the the former secretary. Is really wear the big. Conflict once I think. Do you feel. In your opinion that they should have ahead of an outside of tourney. Outside of the attorney general's office yeah II really don't think that that is for me to say at this point but but I mean yes probably they should have had an outside attorney they should have just gone about it in a different manner I mean there was a definitely a conflict at that point okay thank you thank you thank you mister chairman thank mr miss mccastlin that that's all the questions that we have for used to commit the like to recall a mr magness please thank you miss mccastle for being here. One of mister magnus and. Please take your seat and go ahead and state your name for the record and in your mind that you're still under oaks and sender hammer you recognized. Many magnet the chairman of the arkansas water corrections they keep born benning I guess one question one I ask you is having heard all the discussion that have been during these hearings. Why a three minute meeting for such a weighty matter why a three minute meeting. It's a little bit easier for me to answer. Then to make everybody in this room believe it we'd had many hours three and a half hours. Told at least that long and maybe other terms are talking about. The performance of our former secretary. To now thank ever lack of better words is. The board was this second artiman second hard. And not getting any. Not getting any changes turn. And so therefore I think that. Mr watching m&n asked my myself to try to get. Some possible legal council to go forward. And so that was the recommendation that they were doing as you know I think was in a. Exactly session an hour and a half before. A close to that before we left a good large then we came back from march. And that's when the motion was made. The. So was a predetermined before you all went to lunch and after came back from lunch it was just a matter of exercising what had are been predetermined my that can would conclude automatically that was asked in the exact research and and it was not my my math in man man I was ready to do something as one of the board members. Ugh already do some different because. I'm the one usually as a more member that will in this case skill talk to the secretariat will talk to director of doctors and once up to a rion here. Ah couple meetings with the secretary. And will know. No part of response at all. To eyes rate do something. Okay was turned out on roll attitude whenever the subject matters beneath the esport member couple on related questions okay please singer petty you recognize thank you mister I have one question then and I have a motion at the proper time it's going to okay thank you mister magness you said something in in your opening statement there about many many many hours in response to the three minute uh conversation where all those meetings and board related meetings and where they covered through minutes and and public core or any of those outside of that uh what are when I was referring to share earned of to open them get november when i'm referring to was exactly stationed about. Mister barre secretary's performance. And I think of a memorable even we called him in and whatever and tried to talk to him as a group not just me as a whole. In this deal and didn't. Didn't go anywhere. And past his door while the more thought was passed in. The. Okay thank you like I said mister chair I have emotion at the proper time thank you sooner per let me take one question from sender boyd and i'll take your motion thank you center boy you're recognized thank you mister chair thank you mister magness thank you for being here today and. This. Miss mecastlin had indicated that she was going to ask for freedom of information actor for we are training to be added to your agenda my question for he is really just simple yes or no will you be adding that discussion to your agenda I have had for your training but will you be adding it to your agenda so we can make sure all the board members are so we like say again I have had four year training in in fact. There we several terms and exactly session a member will say something urged dark down and don't think you're going to ask all of them I think it's. You know distance that they don't care sometimes I have to start from saying anything else that it's not you can rang at subject up in the back and executive session of done in the payers and I would think it's because of the four year training okay so so the answer is yes you will allow that to your agenda the followup like i've been asking other board members but I don't think I asked you last time how many border correction members discussing board business does it take the constitutional meeting absolutely too thank you that there were some. Uh belief at one time on a first guard before the four year training it had been three or more but that sir. At a long time ago I think as before him before your training. Get in the sender this may so the three minute meeting which they had the vote for about. The. Do you believe that there were knowing that that is too or more that there were board meetings maybe undocumented between two board members discussing the hiring of an attorney. I know i've never discussed her a. Attorney or getting attorney except for asking mr watson to try to find a some legal representation that we can use it to right there which would be the meeting then because it been to be all making ever having a discussion so that if. In my position is german give layers on an instruction to lay is on fairly after in advance. Me reading the forward before it thirty years. That is. Legal and my avoid me give like I give astructions to the farm layers on the regulars of farmlayers are. And it's my understanding I can do that. But there was network but. I would just encourage you to seek some further clarification because it would be one thing i'm not sure that you're correct in that and number two everyone knows who the form liaison is because I believe there was an action taken to you know established who the formerly exon was I don't believe there was every action at least by the board ordinary knowledgement that you had created a legal liaison or that you'd entitled that person have extensive conversations about the border whatever it may be and i'm not going to I just was curious about which perspective was there I do and would encourage you to get some clarification about that because. Apparently I don't I would I would I would be curious myself if you're able because that would essentially be the workaround for all for your law in relation to two or more people meeting and have your staff is in the back nodding their edge yes to all of this and I would also encourage it in to meet with your attorney you're in house attorney and have a conversation if they agree with your head nodding in that desk for the staff that i'm afraid may be giving you some bad advice you're just a minute about that but anyway I that that was mine and II look forward to the motion I mean I just like to remind the committee that now we're here not to just look at the processes but it was also this particular contract that needed to be considered in hall it came about and what played out and I think we would all agree hopefully was included that if this was not. Well what will have heard about it here and then we'll see what you guys do with it thank you. Center pedium rate take your motion thank you mister chair and move that to committee adopt and the codashchairs of joint performance review submit the following findings and recommendations to the legislative council as a result of the committee's investigation one the board of corrections operated with disregard for complete for public transparency including the apparent violation of freedom of information act and open meetings loss to the board lacked both financial and statutory authority to enter into the contract. Three the there are perceived and discussed violations of law and for there was an acknowledged lack of process reborned meetings and the procurement process as such this committee recommends that in the event in the contract between the board of corrections and mr abbey medicine zad again for legal services rendered until engagement letter dated in sign december twenty second twenty twenty three is presented for review and ratification before legislative council that legislative council cannot review the contract and the transcripts of the april fourth april eleventh and today's joint performance review committee be transcribed in the recordings of the committee meetings be forwarded to the department of inspector general for further investigation. Ever motion a second and for mr petty could our sender petty could you turn that into the staff your motion if you would please and discussion on the motion. I. Representative wouldn't is up you have discussion on the motion well I couldn't understand all it was saying. Can you have it repeated or can we see is that or written form before we vote on it sure center petty would rather lengthy would you mind please restate the emotion for yes i'll pull the mac a little closer so I moved that the comedy adopted and the coach years of joint performance reviews submit the following findings and recommendations to the legislative council as result in the committees investigation the board of corrections operated with disregard for the public transparency including the apparent violation of freedom of information and open meetings loss to the board lacked both the financial and statutory authority to enter into the contract three there are perceived and discussed violations of law and forward there was an acknowledged lack of process for board meetings in the procurement process as search this committee recommends that in the evening at a contract between the board of corrections and mister apt and medicide again for legal services rendered under engagement letter sand december twenty second twenty twenty three is presented for review and ratification before legislative council that legislative council not review this contract and the transcripts of the april fourth april eleventh and today's joint performance review committee be transcribed and the recordings of the committee meetings before it to the department of inspector general for further investigation okay that was senator petty's motion had a second from senator disman and were open for discussion on the motion. Saying none all in favor say I all oppose no motion passes. The. Go out with the wrong call center does not. Senate flopper center flipper. Senator rice. Senator walls. Senator walls. Senator sullivan. Senator sullivan. Senator murder. Senator burdock. Senator boyd. Send it a petty. Senator bright. This. Representative because our. Represent him because are representative. Represent a leaves. Representative lunch from. Representative lunchroom. Representative bentley represented bentley. Representative richmond. Representative richmond. Representative gazaway representative gazawa represent week. Representative wing. Representative wouldn't. Represent a good. Yeah. Represent crawford. Representative crawford representative scott representative evans. Representative evans. Representative spring. Represent hudson. Represent affirmative. Representative representative burks. Represented more. Representative more. Representative shepherd. Representative shepherd. Representative rate. If you were just a hang type for committee while steps looking at a technically thank you. Thank you ladies and gentlemen so the motion fails and and we'll have a we'll reconvene the committee tomorrow morning after a joint budget made a person now and I would none of the witnesses have to be here for that boat so I was that unless you want to be so that being said and no further business before the committee we stand.