Legislative Recidivism Reduction Task Force

Recognize a core home so will begin with a. Adoption of the minutes so entertain a motion I have motion have a second alright all in favor and it passes art before we get started we have quite a few new members of the task force where the cessing what if you are handful someone asked them to introduce it introduced themselves if I can talk today and we'll start right over here with uh you know if you're representing the ages office if you'll start now and just turn your mike describe your mike turn it on and introduce yourself for the record and for the other members of committee and manage jeana share all I am and I a senior assistant attorney general at the turning general's office i'm taking mr cooper spot on this task force I have been at the ages office for too much now I come from the place he county prosecuting attorney's office I was there for twenty four years and so I am excited to be a part of this task for. I'm jim chica director the division communication. Daniels you on the elected prosecuting attorney and sebassian county twelve judicial district. Uhm so thank you all I think we have a relatively short agenda today uhm so we'll go ahead and start with getting chad brown to the table if you would sir just just right down there in the hot seat now you know the feeling when we percent bills if you would recognize yourself for the record and then you may give some opening comments and then I think we'll just see what the committee members have as far as questions and then real quick before we get started those of you on zoom if you would you know just throw a hand up or or just get my attention in some way you don't want to miss out on either questioning so much brown you're you're recognized sure chad around chief and actual officer department of corrections little bit intro first our apologize for the questions you guys may have that I may not be able to answer today a promise you will take your questions down and I will get you an answer i've been back if the department this is my third row back at the department so i've been here probably less than a year in this position so with that i'll be happy to answer your questions okay members do we have any questions from mr brown was clipped in your recognize okay so just generic what exactly do you do chief financial officer like do you make the budget carry out the budget to purchase orders what is it exactly i'm going to say I have probably do whatever must there tells me to they are the subject matter experts but what I do is is our work for the secretary in the cheapest staff for the department and we basically manage all the budgets the procurements the contracts for division of correction division of community correction. Uh we help the pro board on their side and we also oversee the sentencing commission's budget as well with the help of misrow so we handle everything finance accounting in may banking restitution can you reimbursement all of that falls within our wheel household and is the department usually like at the end of the year over budget under budget hours that fall well I would say the department meets its budget needs every fiscal year that's the best way that I can answer that you will use more funding I think every department will tell you they could and we would expense that is necessary on positions in a no which is maintenance and operations you name it we can find uses for it within the department of corrections is there a specific area and I guess I don't I don't totally understand because governments so much different areas like which areas needs in your opinion would need more funding and which areas could use less funding well yes all you could go by would be how much is usually over budget under budget sure so we just in in office we just look at the black and why we look at what's budgeted we look in what's necessary we look at the salary savings that we have and we project that out so i'd say maybe three or four months ago we projected around thirty million dollars and salary savings we used that for things to pay payout holiday pay for employees at a bank that up over the fiscal year so we'll pay that out in love some payments we pay out over time payments with our salary savings but to me the easiest way to answer your questions we have around twenty persons around the state to handle all the needs for all those persons and you have comments which I believe is about a hundred years old and you can imagine all the knees that we would need for a place like come in prison so that's what I mean when I say we could always use the money because our twenty persons and the constant updates that they need. We could always use it when you send salaries savings what what do you mean so salary savings and i'll use the division of correction for example we budget a certain number of positions each year so we're about to start their process the physical session will come to a close here in the next week we can have maybe two once that process comes to a closed then we will look at what I call the rsa which is the revenue stabilization act will look at the funding that we get from that was approved by the legislature we will take that finding and we will start looking at what we plan to feel position wise they will look at our food budget will look it are even oh and we basically look at previous year expenses to count and give us a baseline of what we're looking at. So for the purpose of salary savings just hypothetically will budget a hundred positions if we only feel twenty five in those seventy five positions that we budget it for salaries that's what we call salary savings because that money was allocated towards those seventy five positions they haven't been field in even if they do get filled later on in the fiscal year we still have that part of the fiscal year where they were not field and that still counts a salary saving so any position that's not feel that we budgeted that's considered salary savings and if you look at on a grand scale of department of corrections you have division community correction and division of correction now you're talking about thousands of positions and you said that salary savings money goes to wood or last year when I went to what so we pay out how say upwards of fifteen million dollars of overtime we also pay things called differentials so in some of our units we have what's called hazardous duty. So we also have something called a certification differential which may be a little easier to explain that certification differential is if you go if you go into a counselor position you're required to get certain certifications in that position once you get those certifications you get an add on to your salary it is not going to your base salary so if you ever left the position that differential would stay with that position not with you but a since you're required to have that certification you are eligible to get that differential in so on the division of correction side I believe that's about half a million a year for differentials and then around two hundred for community correction okay well we'll say what's in a million for both but that is paid for out of each division salary savings you have over time is also something that gets paid out you have the holiday payout which I mentioned earlier all those stayings there. I'm going to say we don't have a specific line item for that we utilize our salary savings for but it's still salary related things like like if there are seventy five open positions you use that salary money for over a time for the ones you have correct still within salary yes that's all I have for now thank you so much brown on the south salary savings I mean it's it's sort of a bit of an odd term to use I don't we use it frequently throughout state government that you not unique here but we're actually using moneys that were budgeted for one purpose and we're using him elsewhere that's that is typical with salary savings and we've seen that play out time and time again state government correct if we filled every one of those positions you wouldn't have the money to do those things that I could explain which has been an issue with community corrections has not yes sir are we are we working to remedy that specifically in in try to fix that shortfall because I know we allocated another twenty well all total last session and other additional forty million to department of corrections and some of that or the overall budget some of that I think may be getting moved or there's been talk about that what where where are we on that so the twenty million yes it was forty million twenty million of it is for the salary peace of it correct we have been working with department of finance administration in the governor's office to figure out exactly how that twenty million is going to be utilized and how much we need to reallocate over to division of community correction we're still working through those numbers on hesitant to throw any numbers out now yeah we haven't really gotten into the weeds about it we're still sorting through some of the projections on each side of the house okay so previous administration over there it was common practice for them to use salary savings to give raises that way I understood it in a lot of ways. Who had a good question I don't know if we've ever used it well yes and it depends on how you want to look at it if you want to give somebody a raise inside your area but they were budgeted at a certain level then that would have to come out of salary savings but I don't recall before hutchinson's administration which that's about as far as I can go back I don't recall utilizing salary savings specifically specifically to gear a mass number of increases to a wide range of great so I don't recall that but I may be wrong jersey. Mit miss she saw you checking your head do you want to jump in here at any point okay thank you okay. Yeah so how often have we had to use salary savings with an important as ever and every fiscal every year every fiscal year thank you and we we normally pay the same things every year holiday over time all that stuff we pay it out any other questions from the committee. I mean this is the numbers gas folks if you get questions this is the only signature of senator haha never chat appreciate what you do all right I see what if you if you want just hang around down there because i'm on get mister uh stewart appear and then there may be additional questions as members thank you sure and you would sir just recognize yourself for the record and then you may begin good evening i'm nicholas to at human resources and train administrative for the department of corrections all right do you have any opening remarks you want to give or should we just brought into any questions the members might have well overseas human resources in training section for the department where the best department in the state of arkansas so let's talk about I guess i'll start then until why people are thinking of their questions let's talk about some of the difficulty to so we know we have a lot of unfilled positions within an apartment be a community corrections to jersey and a correct or whatever it might be a lot of a lot of vacancy um so what are things that you've seen work or with our things we could do better or what are some areas that you've identified that are problems when trying to recruit and retain people will go to a lot of job fairs and other activities in the public perception is probably one of the most difficult things to overcome because of what people generally think of when they see the news of television shows they often have this misconception that hey i'm going to get started or something like that if they come to work in one of our units when that's not the case in fact secretary wallace in and cheaper stay up hard and direct to paying just approve the purchase of a step best for every employee to make you know safer prisons and things like that we were to a job fair with. At the air force basin couple of the oxes like may I would already have peters de I just cannot do that job so getting over those obstacles in tell our own story really we need to tell the only story about our job is correcting individuals behaviour. Gentleman you get the free past today looks like and it's very few questions that are miscliffed in you would and then II try to give a lot of attitude to folks as they ask questions so just just make sure that we're letting other people I know we got mister mcclean on zoom to ask what you as well misclipped in your recognized do you have the number how many vacant positions there are right now we have in on the division of correction and we have one thousand one hundred seventy two vacant security positions community correction we have sixty vacant security positions. And the division of correction overall there are up thirty hundred and eighty two vacant positions how many was that i'm sorry one thousand three hundred eighty two. So would that difference be like programs they are for yes as program said yes step other than security staff yes. That's separate now thank you guy mr mcclean. You're immute there you're going to get this off me thank you senator question mr stewart looking at turnover can you hear me okay I know my embreaking up over here but hopefully you can hear me okay looking at the turnover rate and I know there's been a consistent vain what we do and what what do you see is the problem with the turn over rate because I know particularly at their rights fill complex I can speak to that there's a hot turn over eight in trying to figure out what the problem is with the terminal rate and what are we doing about fixing the problem I don't know what we're doing to market and we're getting a lot of people particularly out of high school straight from high school I don't know if that's a big issue I know that what things are too that I see a high number one long number I don't think partly at all we have a low number of minute coming into the prison system seek an employment and so what are we doing to resort the issues and the turnout turn over right or one thing we really work down for turnover building the the competencies of our supervisors making sure that they really know how to interact with people we brought it we brought open in last year to talk about generations in the workplace because we have our baby boomers and generation exercise not generations years and no what does it have to see out for the while we're not quite there yet but learning how to interrect with one of those were different in the way so just be careful how so a supervisor crosses the understand and so which are the work with people who different in a workplace in leading led and the tenuous staff know that you really can interact with the younger generation the same way judy growing up you know we could ask while back in the day but you know we we just couldn't and we are still we could well. Now which you have to know why and and things of that nature and what are the big keys of secretary wallace's platform is communication and effective communication and getting down and talking to the people doing a job every day and have an open door relationship the issue is the first time that i've ever seen of department what emails saying hey it's not performance evaluation time in these are the things that she will be judged on it had a lot of feedback first in oh well okay I did know that so as part of the initiatives of communication ensuring everyone is the way what's going on is what a secretary whilst is big platforms right now and I think that will help as far as what else we do I don't know why we we we got a job fairs are our dedicator could it goes out to different communities where we have our school II i've still on the corner endumes for three hours holding up but now hiring signed for a building that we paid several hundred dollars to rent and nobody showed up so we were trying practically everything we're on nationwide zoom meetings in all in where i'll do in the same thing somewhere with the public sentiment of law forcement corrections right now is the mat- not the most popular field. Are you talking about specifically there would be a time frame on when we're sure in a lot of those statistics up as far as give the people that we need more information across the board getting a people that we need in and retain in those people at the same time you made an important statement I can remember being at a conference concerning each generation when we have the the generation generation excuse me that we have right now you do that need to talk with them different what training are we doing right now with officers with staff in order to help them so that we can retain a lot of these younger generations within the department what we've done comprehensive training a basic correctional office of training we've updated our power points we have no more kinestetic training we've had a lot of turnover in training in a lot of good turnover training administrator at the division of correction and communication of both amazing people so we're trying to install this show the this is the way how we interact in lead people modeling the character that we want to see out of all of our employees we we do a lot of my cognitive type things that may not be directly called currently programming but we understand I think is what leads us to everything and so we're really trying to utilize and build people up and you you talked about the high schoolers there are some other states that just went to harrying high schools and they love it I and I think it's a great thing especially where we have the amount of money that we pay initially for someone coming to high school this is pretty good money it's just a matter of them being a little more responsible so you know you kind of talk about retention in turnover I don't know if you have the experience that some people may still be living at home so they don't necessarily have the bills that. Other people have so they don't have a problem leaving their job the way most people do with responsibility and we face loud that no matter what the ages of the of the employee. Thank you sir wallace thank you mister chairman I just want to pay back on some of the things that mister stewart has said uhm I think you all voluted to it it's not a recruitment issue it's a retention issue we can get people in the door but it's convincing them to continue doing this work that's difficult admittedly uhm I just returned from dc and we have a correctional leader's association and it's not just it's some nationwide issue and that whole conference was about elevating issues and corrections and it's it's kind of a it's abroad issue in that yes it's a recruiting our retention issue but it's also the type of environment that they're working in its communication is a huge part of it but it's also we have a lot of cell phones and we have a lot of issues within the prison system and it all taste in together and so one of the things mister mentioned it i'm trying to get out and visit with not just our folks in prison but also the community supervision officers and asking what can we do we get the pay issue and that's something we're working on but what else can we do to make things better the stabbers those have been a huge success and that was something that former secretary proceed kind of initially started uhm and we have continued that and it has been something that I think are officers have really appreciated uhm I was at the maximum security and it not too terribly long go and I asked there is a brand new officer it was on their they were on there on the job training week and there was a ten yeared officer that had been there for over twenty years like tell me about your experience here why are you still here and he talked about all the things that have happened over the years he remember to control booth when there were no there was no plexic laugh there was no glass on it and it was just open bars but that was it so he kind of addressed for this new person that had come in the things that the department had done over the years to improve things. And obviously we still have a lot to do but one of the things that i'm focusing on is like what you talked about mr clean and the things that we need a fix so that people will want to continue working for us in the way you find that out as the communicate and let people know that you're willing to hear about whatever the issues are that's for inmates and officers what can we do to make things um better so that we are returning folks to society and a better place than what they came to us and then make in the environment better for our officers so we're working on mister steverton iren and doctor brad and are going to sit down and put together we have an exit survey for employees to fill out when they leave us but I want to send something out pro actively to our staff that are there to ask them the things that they they would like to see new recruits people that have been there for a long time and just get their honest feedback and you have to be willing to listen to that to be able to get folks to talk to you so that's something that's very important to me mister steer mentioned you know supervisor retraining we got it learned how to talk to the younger generation and melissa we're going to do that as educate our supervisor so i'm a few people that i've had discussions with have talked about um you know what type of uh what type of interaction do your senior level leaders have with those new recruits are they have in the conversations to say hey what's going on with you you know you're a month into this job how can how can we help you understand the gravity of the job that you're doing or what do you need to do this job so just that open line of communication I think is really important and that's kind of what i'm focusing on and then once we know what the issues are we can start addressing those and hopefully getting getting better numbers on our time over. So how are you so I guess I know you mentioned a couple of things about doing surveys and other things so are you dealt track I guess why someone leaves the department for whatever reason right and what is the is that a yes mr keeps up with all of that stuff if they fill out the surveys if it's a you know we have a some internal affairs investigations that will result in you know they will they will separate from the job and lower being terminated or continuing with an investigation but i'll let mr speak to more of that so I guess what i'm getting at what the ad is what is the number one reason is it is it pays the proximity is it some of its pay is pay in in distance in our prisons so rule they have to drive a lot of places sometimes they say supervisor without any great detail you know a significant portion of our terminations of three day no car no shows like I said we're paying a lot for we paid a good mama so not a label paying a good south where some of the prisons are located and it's really not what that person expected yeah sector and i'll add to their um a few years ago we entered into contract with the UA l their department of criminal criminal justice to do a survey of all of our facilities as well as community correction offices they are wrapping up their incarcerated side of the equation and so I think it's going to tell us a little about the culture not just from the offenders perspective but also from the staff and a lot of things that mister stewart's mention in talking with doctor parker kind of preliminarily a lot of those things the pay the mandatory overtime they will I have heard a folks say that they have to do the overtime they have to work over termino to provide their family because we denied pay well enough so it's a huge part of it. The. I'm going to put him on spot sheriff uhm i'm just curious because I think I know the answer is this an issue that and that yellow dealing with in the county jails as far as the staffing and and having the staff available similar if you would hit it you might there is the same problem every loan for his jail street than marriage you can't get in about it couldn't work i've got four depth of positions i've had for over a year can't get invite even apply any other questions. So what is the pay for especially like that it's a high schoolers that their eighteen coming out of high school what is starting pay I know it's and for you know the base starting pay for a corporal and it cannot change it based upon the tier or though the severity of your universe forty thousand three hundred forty dollars is the base pay and we give us six percent differential on top of that at a minimum for our division of correction officers so what there's something below corporate it's a it's a correction of someone that stands so it's thirty six thousand one hundred fifty five dollars and if a new person you want to pay what seven percent into the retirement for the other things like that so you needing under thirty thousand dollars easily probably every year and that's why you talk about work we don't have a lot of guards as a probation produce officer and my wife works for the school just you're going to support role she made more money than I did and so we're kind of training grounds for a lot of the departments people go to the phase after year or the law force many entities just to get they get experienced from us and then they leave because of the page yes yes so I remember i'm a former inmate so I remember now when I first went to prison I was twenty but as I got older like when I got to be about thirty there were certain offers those you know the eighteen nineteen year olds especially the females being at a female unit you know they had no idea what they were doing and that's not their fault I mean they're nineteen they don't know how to stand up and whatever well the ones that were nice to us I mean following the rules and all that but we weren't going to do anything to get them in trouble as we wanted them to stay now some officers that be perfectly happy if they got in trouble and walked out so is there anything done as far as like I hear you talk about supervisor employee relations but the. Employee in mate relations and that's the from the how can to create a better environment how can the officers talk to us better so we can make their job not horrible so ironically not really a rankly but what secretary was talking about communication we were just on the visit that make fierce in within the last couple of weeks in that pub with an inmate who's a life for and talked about the importance of communication and again we talk about that in our in our training classes that's why it's called a condit violation to talk certain ways because again we don't want to agitate situations we want to build behavior up to our level not commitable level of of an inmate if you will so communication and we teacher are to well out to our basic correction office to train the academies this is how you you respect everybody you know you respect everybody in the net it should be reciprocated at that point and then i'm curious and this is a towed off topic maybe but of course I was at a female unit now don't think there was ever establing by an inmate to an officer at the female unit another males are different is how many incidents is is there a inmate stabbing officers like that we needed these to spend the money on these status I don't know but again it's being proactive you don't want to not have it so but I don't I don't have that data with me but rather have it in that habit you know if we're provided for body else who provided for make sure it's a staff as well i'm i'm just getting it is just a thought you know we're talking about not having enough money to pay officers but I mean that had to be quite a bit big expense to buy stabbers for all the officers and it I mean we don't want anybody to get stabbed obviously but was that the this is not a question to you but was that the best choice of money when we're could have paid off there's more and have more officers ongoing deal this will be like a one time investment pays in ongoing investment so again though proactive proactive versus reactive. Okay that's all I thank you. Second was I just give me I just wanted to add to that as far as the culture and the relationship with and mates and and and employees that's part of the culture study that the ua law is doing for us they had focused groups with inmates as well as employees so the purpose was so that we could improve the culture overall for the employees as well as the offenders that we are quick section when when can we expect that study I think they're wrapping at the adc portion of it and will shift their focus over to community corrections within the next prolly six months i'm not sure when the final report will be out but I can find that out and get back here might want to presentation on that I think you'll be helpful any other questions everybody on this side of the table over here has been really quiet so. You might have your chance of the other tablet some pocket chairman mccastlin real quick so with parallel board I mean are you all running at the same sort of staffing issues with officers and things that that nature is a completely different it's it's excuse me it's really different I don't really have much have a problem with staff we retain them but it is a so different in our agency it's small it's very close near it and we have like twenty people twenty one people and it's just stumb we really don't have complaints thank you there's a difference but like on the probation procedure mister stirt was saying they start out at forty our office now thirty two four five that's in the northwest article amount seven percent you're twenty nine thousand dollars they required a degree now when you start with me and work to have man goes away i've been fine so now I meant would have started the same salary as a ppo or cso now communicative business and they require a degree so there's kind of a problem the sarings are exactly the same okay what was the last time so for any of you all chat I don't know me this is the best question for you was the last time there's been AAA pay study or any sort of look at updating the mentory minimums for the department do you recall. The center I don't know i'll talk about it and then have to go back and environ and call miss barney and talk to her about it but i'm not sure would you mind would you mind checking that because I think it would be helpful for this committee to know because it I think we see a trend I mean clearly it's not everything right cultures and issues there's a lot of factors that go into it but if we need to look at from the legislative side I just I don't recall seeing a push for that I don't know if that what initially the reasons have been but if we need to look at updating the man toward minimums for those more entry level positions I know that there's there's ways to do that with reallocation maybe even some adjusting salary savings to use that for feeding those injury levels anyway it'd be an interesting discussion to have sure probably more than happy to. Okay see no further questions as your last and final offer I don't want to I don't want to be labor of the pointer wasting one's time so i'll say the department folks thanks for being here I don't know when we will schedule a uh another meeting we need to look at where we are on things and what what we haven't heard as far as presentations ago open the suggestions miss clifton provided quite a few appreciate that if you have ideas um or you want to volunteer to make a presentation from the department mister chicago is offering but anyway that being said at all jokes aside let me know if you have ideas or things that you want to hear and then we will will were work and plan accordingly um and then i'm sure we'll be sent out email with the new ah the next day rather so that being sensing it for the business we're journed thank you.