Legislative Joint Auditing-Educational Institutions

Our members were going to go ahead and get started to one thirty two so we'll go ahead and kick things off I think this meaning to be fairly short. I appreciate the members that are here today we'll need extra participation since we have light committee turn out today so. Be engaged in attentive and are you wealth. All right first we need to adopt the minutes from the meeting of february eighth so to have emotion motion second all in favor say i. I'll oppose the all right minutes are adopted. At or move to item see review of reports in now turned over mister fink to get a started thank you miss chair and good afternoon today we have a hundred and thirty two educational reports for the fiscal year twenty twenty three to review twenty three of these reports contained reportable findings and we will begin with the cleveland county score district report which was certified to the bomboard and also referred to the applicable pa and the ag. Cleveland county had two findings are analysis of the district's dog rooming program revealed that approximately five thousand dollars in grooming fees should have been collected during the period of august twenty twenty two through may twenty twenty three however only a hundred and fifty five dollars was deposited in the districts activity fund bank account leaving approximately forty eight hundred dollars an account and for. Employment of the agriculture teacher who was custodian of the under positive funds was terminated on december twenty first twenty twenty three. During an interview conducted by a third party the agricultural teacher indicated that she allowed customers to pay the fees directly to students instead of depositing them in the district's bank account. Due to inadequate documentation we could not verify this assertion. Finding two. From january to july twenty twenty three ninety eight fraudulent charges totalling almost nineteen thousand dollars remained using four district credit card accounts. Although district personnel were aware of this breach in early twenty twenty three the district paid for insubsequently disputed the charges from january to august twenty twenty three the district was credited a total of thirteen thousand three hundred and sixty dollars by the credit card company. However the district did not dispute the remaining improper charges and tell enquired about the issue during the audit engagement. As the report date the district had not been reimbursed for fraudulent charges totalling five thousand five hundred and ninety nine dollars. And that concludes the findings for cleveland county score district. Okay this is an interesting one haven't seen dog rooming in here before so. Um anybody on the committee have any questions about this particularly report. The. So what is referred to the prosecutor yep so you're every. Is there anybody here from the school district. There is no since it wasn't a repeat finding or deferred auto report they are not required to attend they do get a notification letter about the meeting but there is no requirement for them to attend. Senator chesterfield. Since then I could you too only just a little bit about the dow I do my best so the agriculture teacher started this program and for you know the the hundred and fifty five dollars that was deposited you know that was four receipts that were deposited in the ffa account and so what we did as we went back in reviewed the documentation they had which was like appointment schedules and so they had a pretty pretty detailed schedule of their appointments and it went so far as to say you know who the group was going to be which was you know one of the students when it was going to be done fees and things of that nature this is a part of the edge department. The agriculture teacher over saw this program. But it was extraneous to the district or it the monies were to be collected by the district it was it was in an activity find a count is where the pipeline and that kind of thing right and we couldn't confirm because they didn't receive the money except for the four receipts. It was hard for us to confirm anything other than using that appointment schedule thank you so much for clarifying I just learn something every day yet with those phones did you mention the effort fa that were those funds may be supposed to be that's where the four receipts where it was into the FFA activity account. This. Center on the four receipts that were deposited how was it you was a cash check or did a utilized like an ipad square I square electronically them and do you do you have any indication so I do believe there there may be some cheques at I think it was probably mostly cash and there were some question to you know kind of what the superintendent told her about you know student I think coming to him and in saying I was paid directly once again some things were just can't verify because there's not enough documentation there and they didn't follow school policy. Okay. Any other questions on this report looks like finding two was district credit card hacked or information leaked and so they have fraudulent charges. Okay are I see no more questions on that report will move on to maintenance. Yes the next three reports were referred to the applicable prosecuting attorney as well as the attorney general maintenance school district had two findings the first one the districts operating bank account was unreconciled for the periods of july twenty twenty two through june twenty twenty three with variances ranging from seven hundred and three dollars to two hundred and sixty four thousand dollars during audit field work a la staff identified a hundred and five thousand dollars in airs leaving an unexplained variance of a hundred and sixty thousand dollars as of june thirty twenty twenty three. Finding two dearing our examination of parallel records the following discrepancies were revealed when verifying the superintenance leave payout we noted the intendence calendar indicate of four vacation days less than abskin records and leave forms were not available for examination. Further review revealed that four leave days were recorded in apps came for the superintendent in august of twenty twenty two. And in november twenty twenty two the superintendent restored four days to her leave balance in apps without proper documentation we were unable to determine why the superintendent's leave was restored in abscan and if the superintendent was eligible to receive a payout of sixteen hundred dollars for the four days when her contract ended. The district bookkeeper payroll prepare peer was overpaid thirty one hundred dollars due to calculation ears when a new salary schedule was implemented and the disheart treasure who resigned in november twenty twenty two was overpaid by twenty eight hundred dollars for days not worked and that includes the findings for conclusive findings for maintenance school district. The. It remembers any questions about that report before we moved to the next two. Okay mister think you can continue. Equipment school district have one finding on november seventeenth twenty twenty two the district discovered that an employees parallel direct deposits have been fraudulent fraudulently diverted to another bank account after the employee contacted the disturbed about not receiving her direct deposits it was determined that the district made the direct deposit changed after receiving an email request from what appeared to be the employee's email account this transaction resulted in a five thousand dollars loss to the district in that concludes the findings for equipment school district. Yeah this is one that we know we've seen in this committee several times and I believe haven't we discussed before about the department sending out communications about this yes so this committee metering recommendation that was approved by the four l jack to send a letter to eighty eight and have them put something out to make school districts aware of these types of issues and so eighty eight do a commissioner memo to inform schools of these types of issues that were happening. Would this won't be kind of a lag maybe that this happened prior to that member going out do we think it happened after. I'd have to go back and look at the dates. No car. Yeah hopefully we have districts paying attention to that then there we see this allowed and usually it's a fake email account requesting the change and that's how interest here it seems. Any more questions about that yes there was that referred to the attorney general's office as well. Yes ma'am it was. Seen no more questions or move on. Star city school district had two findings the first finding the district paid two hundred and nineteen thousand dollars for installation of an age back system from the education stabilization fund without obtaining a written contract that included the prevailing wage rate clause additionally weekly certified payrolls were not submitted to the district. Finding two the district discovered and we verified an author as credit card charges of nine thousand dollars on the district's credit card between september fifteenth twenty twenty two and september nineteenth twenty twenty two as of the report date the bank reversed charges a fifty six hundred dollars resulting in a loss of thirty seven hundred dollars in that conclusive findings for star city school district. Quick question for me I know in higher we have purchasing cards we have to do verifications for all the charges this could well have to do that as well. That I believe they do but I can't speak for every. Score district I think what you had in in this situation is obviously they were flooded with charges that were fraudulent in a pretty short time frame and so the bank I don't know why the bank. Didn't choose to to. You know return the thirty seven hundred dollars and why they did do the fifty six hundred dollars and so I really don't have information on that but do know that the district tried to recoup does funds and it was sixty one transactions and they were all cash out transactions. Okay. Members any questions about the star city report. Senator chesterfuel we're dealing with the cash out thing. Which it seems to me would be very susceptible. Two mischief. The. Is it a suggesting to our school districts when they are assumed that they find a more secure way of doing business. We do get in lemme point out in this one it was the fraud I guess the person committing the fraud against the school district they were they had hacked that credit card account and we're sitting those payments to get to cash out so just a distinction there we do get that question quite a bit concerning using different apps to do business we do not make a recommendation that those get used but what we will say because it's a mandate decision we will tell them that we you know make sure that whatever policy you have or whatever process is you're going to put in place are written in their communicated to the finance staff that overseas those does apps I don't know how many schools are using those. But when we do get that question and we we do try to to caution it seems like it tip you towing around. And I guess I just anticipate you are giving good advice to people this is a dump thing to do. Okay that's not rocket science. In and I just anticipate that you are stuck typical on around stuff and just tell people this a damp because people in the school systems many of them are new. Have never dealt with this before. This case yep. Appreciability is relatively new. It's a II guess i'm am just carrying on your to be more front about it. And stop being sold politically correct about it. Because it's costing the taxpayers and awful lot of money that was just my thoughts for whatever thank you. Our disk so this was cash up I assume other things like thin those all these things do do we see school districts using those kind of things frequently are kind of trouble have trouble thinking when it would be appropriate for a school district to ever use one of those. Apps to do school business I couldn't tell you how many you're using it or how many use it to do business I do not I do not know that yet I think the the documentation would be. Pretty scared if you're using this apps what we're not seeing it like used in you know an operating setting so there if if it's being used it's most likely in an activity fund but once again those are does her management decisions. And the school boards given broad authority. Over those decision in the decision making process. And so we can come in and we can certainly say hey check with your legal council you obviously need to have in good internal controls but i'm not sure how far we can go other than that. The. Yeah that is drug as I could see a fundraisers in certain activities like that using it to raise to race funds that make sense okay members any other questions before we move on to repeat findings. Alright seeing we can afford. There was one report with repeat findings and that was the strong headache school district the first finding which was a repeat during our testing of capital assets we identified two items totaling seventy five thousand dollars that were not added to the capital asset subsidiary ledger additionally capital assets identified in the prior audit we're not added to the subsidiary ledger a similar finding was issued in the prior report finding two which was a repeat. The district paid fifty four thousand dollars for installation of a security camera system from the education stabilization fine without obtaining a written contract that included the prevailing wagerate provision and weekly certified payrolls were not submitted to the district additionally the district did not obtain a performance bond from the contractor as a required by arkansas code in the system was not recorded in the district's equipment subsidiary ledger finding three in our tests of expenditures from the covered nineteen education stabilization fine we identified two equipment purchases with unit cost greater than the five thousand dollars threshold for which the district did not obtain prior written approval from dessi these purchases had a total cost of just over ten thousand dollars in finding four during our examination of payroll records we noted the following one employee received two two thousand dollars dipense for duties he did not perform. Two employees were not issued contracts as required by arkansas code. Additionally documentation approving the hourly rate paid to one of the employees was not provided. Time sheets are equivalent documentation could not be provided for payments to one employee ploy totalling eight hundred dollars time sheets were not always completed and or approved by the applicable supervisors. And two employees received net overpayments of six hundred and forty dollars and one hundred and forty two dollars respectively due to airs and calculating payroll and payment for bus routes when the employee did not drive the bus and that concludes the findings for strong had a school district there are officials in a tinants from the district. Would you are pleased come to the end of the table. If you work please state your name in your position. Okay. Amy sanchez uhm first year superintendent for a strong headache. This is crystal johnson cheese payroll clerk and has since been moved to fixed assets. Thank you for coming today. If you would please just cannot give us a can open a statement here or anything any additional information that you feel is important for the committee to know so. Blatasha gads and who is not here today as our accounts payable and new federal program coordinator. Uhm and then crystal is the fixed asset payroll. Um. Person that works with that. For the first finding um. The repeat when the crystal and when crystal inlitation came in. The people. That proceeded them. Left no training left nothing for them to look into the people doing the fixed asset portion. We're working I think five or six other wearing five or six other hats. Um and so that information did not always get to the business office to be entered. And then. We have had we have since been trained the three of us since within the past two years were all new. And i'm brand new so is my first year so for instance. And so we've been trained through a AEA AB SR c we spoken a lot with abscan. Um and then like I said lately is now the federal program coordinator and so she's been received she has received several hours of training is and is continuing to do so. And then in the process we are in the process of tagging we're locating and then tagging all of these items that have not yet been tagged according to inventory that's there. And we're working diligently with that but it's a time consuming matter. And then our goal is to complete and have inventory done by the end of the summer where it matches all of our essence. Yeah. Okay thank you appreciate your common in certainly can appreciate that you're near to the position and maybe have some messages that you're trying to clean up something we've heard in the committee before so we can sympathise. I do want to ask looking at finding four these stipends that were issued for duties that performed. And looking at the response it looks like was as the headbasketball coach. Yes there are he was he was put on as head basketball coach and then they made a decision to let that counselor do had girls basketball coach and the board president who's unable to be here today to a funeral informed me that they asked the the previous superintendent if they could take that stipend off. And she said no since he already had the contract they cannot take that stipend off. Um and so he continued to be paid we are working with our lawyers through a cat billingsley and keys to set up a payment of repayment plan of that four thousand dollars the individual has not yet been informed but he will be for the month is over he will be informed. So that the coach will be repaying the funds that he were saying yes. So that was a superintendents decision now I guess I was trying to figure out that this individual fraudulently fraudulently requests these funds or something that doesn't sound like that was the case she was actually. In the district when it occurred so it. I believe at that time that superinternet were was also new to her position as a superintendent and she was unaware that we could make contract a dined. Two current contracts. And that's we do have that corrected nail it was a minor at the beginning of this school year because it was still there and. We did we figured out talking with a a ea and a p SR c that we could do contracted into to take that from him. Okay on the the two employees. That had overpayments I am currently being trained in. Uh blended rates. Repairer that something new to me app did have prior experiences payroll but I came from county government to school government our school finance and visit. Different animal so i'm still learning. But we are as far as the fixed assets we are going through were fun and everything that we can so that we can't have that corrected. And we've also put in at new policies and procedures that if. Our technology percent or our maintenance supervisor they purchase something over the requirement they have to fill out asset forms that have to be turned into the central office before any invoices are paid. Or approved okay thank you for that senator test of your. Thank you message here thank you for being here so never easy being first term is it let me ask you this is the applicant he had basketbalco still working. When I was overpaid in the district overpayment once I was just rejoicing when I got that extra money because I thought maybe we had a regulative raise but. Upon finding out they just took the money so i'm trying to figure out what the deal is you could just take that out the person's check it. That's what they did to me. If that's. What needs to be done that's what we can do because blast county special school district just died in taking. Ex number of dollars they repaying it over three months so the person would have took the money back so I add so it was just informed rather than set up a plan sounds good we can do it yeah thank you members anybody else have any questions there so. It's appreciate your newness to the position and apparently several folks does the department of education send staff down to you to work through some of these bookkeeping air are issues and and application of rules hard as all over a phone I mean this really tough to walk into a position as you have and try to take care of things over the phone or by an email do they send people down to help you. They provide for first year superintendence aea provides a consultant free of charge. And so and we work closely with my sheering and then we paid twenty five hundred dollars to a p SR c. To use them as a resource and then any town that we've reached out to the state we've been able to all all the business office along with the team cnn go through I guess i'm asking a different question do they show up on your school district grounds I have never personally asked them to I feel like they would if I asked him to. Okay with one more so they're not showing up on the ground to help you made it if I got somebody that i'm working with and is having a significant problem i'm not going to wait for them to ask me to be down there if I want to see the problems i'm gonna be proactive and show up a headed time to make sure you have all the resources you have and when I leave i'm going to be asking you how we do today and do we have everything so some hearing you say that they're not on campus helping you work through these and the book keeping or the administrator say. The. I have not personally seen a more campus but they have been very helpful there's not that there's no appreciate the position it is now what i'm asking but I want to ask you again I think I understand the answer thank you center urban. What they that you you said what was talking about the blended payments and how your and familiar with that and so that just kind of triggered in my head a little bit so a lot of our rule schools you have a lot of people just because you to have lack of best drivers that what you're referring to and because they're being paid as an employee of the school under contract but are probably being paid at different rate if they're also when driving a bus outright yes may and we have. Three. But a strawberries that also work at the district under different position right so when we're having a poorer teacher out of a classroom took a drug filtry right. Were that's a new learning car for me because they are paid differently yes ma'am okay yeah so an and I hadn't thought about that before but i'm sure that can be incredibly complicated well but also it's something that we should be aware of because a lot of our rules schools are in that same situation you've got principals you've got assistant superintendents that are driving bus routes and the mornings and afternoon cause I can't find bus drivers so I don't know if that's the that's on policy area that we might want to think about and consider for those of the people that are on the education committee because I can imagine that would be really really tough to figure all that out and complicated. When you just something to think through but give your input to your state representative in your state senators you know don't be afraid to do that because I think it's an important component that we've not really considered or thought about the complication behind that but the need for it. So looking at center chosen she had. So anyway. Thank you. Center clark. Yeah. Thank you mister chair the. Why wouldn't you. And. But in the one reason I can think of one reason would be withholdings. While we're new on two different jobs have two different cheques. While would if you're a bus driver while would you not get it I thought that's what when my dad taught I thought that he got to take us a bus driver he got a check as a teacher which is much simpler i've got its two entirely different jobs yes sir but whenever they're supposed to when their contracted between seven fifty and three o five as a class from teacher certified and then they are happy to leave their classroom or the town rolls in to when they're supposed to be in the classroom of us versa. That's when you. Are looking into it okay well this person is being paid for being in this classroom teacher. But there are one of us route. And that same time at the the toms are overlapping they do have two separate contracts. But when the tom overlaps that's when you roll into have it okay well or they paid this amount or they paid this amount do you take a half year or have from here as far as how they're paid. Is there say. This sounds like a statewide issue of. The is it. I'm asking is there anybody here that can answer that question with this has come up in several of our audits I would say over the past year I don't know that it's a whole lot of our audits but i've definitely this is not the first time we're seeing it and we have seen it multiple terms and sometimes it you know you've got the the time she or the documentation you're keeping because they're working both jobs it's she's correct it is can II guess difficult for the school district I think mainly you gotta make sure that you're using those timesheets properly that they're their recording when they're going to be out at the right time that you've got a policy in place you've got a control in place and then the contract as well like sometimes we see issues with the contract so there they haven't considered that maybe that that might be an issue and so I think you've you've got several issues going at the same time we understand that as audit we're trying to do our job point out where we see deficiencies like that so just just my two cents I don't know sharing from aa don't know if I want to call her to the table or not she does deal with a lot of schools uh doesn't mind cheap yeah if you're willing to come to the table. Appreciate it if you were just first of your name in your position make sure your microphones aren't too please. My name is sharon took in the physical services court night or four the administrator's association and ideas being twenty five years in public school district prior to coming to a aea two years ago and thank you very small and rural school districts so the blended over tom comes again because of the fair liber standards act and that in the state minimum wide it does not apply to the last since to stay up so if if missing chairs were to drive a bus she's not eligible for overtime she might be paying you know a bus driver pay for driving a bus but it does not calculate into over time for her where you run into the blended rate is if you have a pair pro or other classified employee who. Has a classified job in my instance my payroll clerk had a bus route as well so she had. Her payroll job contract and a bus route contract she had two separate contracts and she maintained two separate timesheets one four payroll and one for bus. Once they run over forty hours. Then you have to a run the calculation of blending those rates and. Umm it's it's almost a pro rider calculation of how do I pay them the over over time right do I pay them and the app skin and stay off has put out a spreadsheet for their districts might use. My particular desperate was a we had an audit founding many years ago and I was able to work with my auditor to create a spreadsheet that we utilized and shared many times for a districts where all the headache was plug in the number of hours for payroll job and what that hourly right is the best driver job and what that radios. In the spreadsheet was built such that it would calculate like that for the district to determine what that blended right it is a very difficult process especially if you are new to the job like all these ladies are. Yeah. Okay thank you for that it's very helpful so they're solving your question so professional development in education has been in the news lately so we ever example of a super dander who is doing their best or working hard are you guys ever on side. I've been to strong heard agmini terms okay so it takes a request if a superintendent request you to be on sight then you chose so in july we provide two days of professional development to all news they per intendence and at that time i'm able to meet with them and let them know that it takes nothing but a phone call for me to come as as good that's what I needed thank you and you're with the architect association of education administrators any other questions from the committee. Thank you for clarifying that for us. Any other questions for the strong credit folks thank you again for coming up you know are our committee were we never like findings but these repeat findings that we see a year after year there's always a definitely important to us and things that we flag so we wish you luck in the year ahead and in the politically possible we hope we don't see you next year so thank you. Okay that's our only report with repeat finding so we'll move now to reports but findings check the next eighteen reports contain findings that were not referred to APA or the and they were not repeat findings so instead of reading each finding a I will provide a brief overview of the findings about half of these bandings in the reports were related to an authorized withdrawals that were made from the district's bank account by a person outside of the school district in each instance the district recovered all the funds from the bank there were also findings noted that were related to bank reconciliations we had some issues with capital asset records payroll issues and general ledger accounting ears staff recommends that the committee take a moment to read over these findings and fowl in mass as reviewed. I give the committee. Center clark yes. You said most of these were unauthorized withdrawals from their accounts. Why is it so common. So I mean it's it's really no I would say there's there's not a lot different what might happen with your personal account we see this on schools cities counties we see this on state agencies if I may though it is different because I never have an authorized withdrawals from account business or personal. You you may be maybe in the minority I don't want to speak to that but we we see it a whole lot more withdrawals did they do not know but my bank will let me get my money out of back so so how's it happening. That's my question i'm not sure I can tell you how it happens I mean you have professional hackers out there we have staff that. That's all you know they deal with information security issues like this hacking things of that nature I mean we've seen colleges get shut down completely a lot of that is hacking yes sir okay it's not where we've given somebody. The ability to withdraw money like say paypal. Right someone has gotten unauthorized access to a credit card or to that account on authorized unauthorized excesses and it times actually it'd be a fraudulent check as well and so some check was mailed out and they have fraudulently altered it sharing in our actually just speaking about this before once again we see that across all of the articles that we do. Okay I hope they're to keep in good records thank you thank you senator clark. Yeah send her tester field in this training. In this training that we're doing with our school districts. Are we emphasising this I know that you can't having been on this communications term. Are and no the people who want to do us harm will do that. But some of this is seems to me could be about better training. This. And conversations which weigh I don't know if banks and school districts ever meet. But we got all of these money housing these banks. And the moneys are just slipping away and sometimes they give it back to them and sometimes they don't. As user is there something we need to do to say it it is the bank's part the money must come back to the school district do we have any of their employees. I'm not sure if that's within mascope as as an art of their just available but. It was seen to me that if you there are not many banks that have the the school districts mine hanging out. They're not there many banks you know there's you usually school districts don't have their moneys plastered a plastic is pretty big I don't think they have it north in south of the river sure were jacket via my mail you know right to be on the incorporated areas little rock nothing rock so. Why is it then that when a district does business with a bank that they would not sit down and enjoy that same level of training. That we're having from the administrators association so then banks are more where of. The the things that can go on that can affect the viability of school. This. I'm crazy but now where that is going to take place if we're going to do the training for the district and you're holding the districts money their training aren't be. Between both interface. Okay I agree with I think I agree with the center tester feel sir sold in him and I couldn't agree more and I think that it's one of the things we saw on the last couple of weeks as the need for professional development and if I think their statement if they request it they'll get it and I think your question gets to the point of while we leading the way and what they need to get instead of being reactive proactive in this and this is going to require a proactive response from the administrative association and from the members themselves to start questioning their bank and bring them in for training i'm sure people won't say no we're not coming they're going to come back again knowing what to ask for our fear new superintendent knowing what training you need and what resources you need that's very difficult center clark or originally do it yes. It's probably bigger than this committee but may initiate from this committee for central chest films and a center solvent just recently was contacted with an hours that somebody had used my debit card and ah and was at me and know it wasn't me and put then the bank cautioned me that I should be careful and I said i've never used this debit card so what ever happened is at me if they have any information from me it's not been placed anywhere it's not anywhere it came from within your bank. Are and so the looks at we've got to have training within the schools to to be watching but we've also something's got to happen with our banks that they're the ones who want to do business like broad and clean we've all got used to doing business electronically but if they can't secure it. That's a that's no longer a bank if you can just. Take them some somebody on authorized can take the money out. Of. So I don't know how we get their attention but and I know that surely nothing has to be more more hard party at a bank than security so surely they're already looking at it but maybe they might come tell us what they're doing. Senator urban mr chair i'd like to make a motion at this committee recommend to the insurance and commerce committees. To explorer the fraud that's occurring with our school districts in the serena and have a have meetings on the topic with the banking association and other members of the department of education uh the administrators association i'd like for you to be a part of that but i'm a member of insurance and commerce committee and and I think it's a right discussion to have with the banking association the bankers and anybody that does business with schools and a financial sense that we we make sure that we can explore what kind of policies we need to put in place to ensure that they're watching this as closely as her watching my bank account and yours and so I would make that motion for this subcommittee to make that recommendation to the insurance and commerce committees jointly okay. All right i'm on insurance so we know what you say yes so decide understand the motion was that we recommend the insurance commerce joint committee. Uhm have a hearing or a take up the issue of fried that we're seeing in our public school districts and their bank accounts and especially under these audits and and perhaps audit can supply. You know kind of a history or information as well to form that process of how big of a problem it is yes okay I think it's I think it's important to come in as a recommendation from this entity versus an isp or just a member that we collectively as one voice say this is a big issue that needs to be addressed sure so that's that's the motion we have a motion to the second is there any discussion on that motion. The. Representative duke. I don't know the discussions that might. Out of the discussions on emotion or not now but I guess i'll put it here so I think we're looking at this I mean I think this is a great idea I think we need look at a little bit differently because or. The banks likely can give our school districts training. Because my guess is there going to be one of the most informed on what they see going on with the fraud and what they are up to date on it I think where the gap may be is the communication sometimes when the school district that this is the issue that we're having where we may catch on a personal level more quickly than a school district is an addressing a lot differently that if we bring the banks into maybe train our school district officials to order encourage them to work cooperatively with the school district as far as what you were seeing what to be aware of I would certainly think most of them are on the you know. The. Are the leading edge of what's going on as far as fraud in their systems and that's not generally how we look at approaching it in education we look at coming to these entities which is great but there are going to be I think the most trained in it so I think engaging them the other direction of why you come in and help us why don't you come in and tell us and encourage our school districts even before we have a study on it there's no reason like i'm going to tell my school districts back coming you're probably I talked to your banks and ask them to come in your school for meetings and talk to you a little bit more about what they can do that's just kind of my thoughts I have no idea that falls online with a motion or not but yeah II think that's a good point for me i've been into to hear from the banks yeah some of these. Yeah yeah the money that's missing the schools not really made whole it looks like in some of these cases i'd be interested in hearing from the banks the explanations of that why do some districts get all the money back by do some not seem to be made hole in these cases. Center chesterfield did you want have I mean i'm looking at eleven on authorized withdrawals seven fraudulent checks and four electronic transactions just from boombia. Just. And so it is a huge problem. It out of it out not to be mutually exclusive. I think they can learn something from the banks can learn something for most and we can learn something for the from the banks and I think that's where this is going if. If we do it right. Because that's why insurers and commerce is so necessary in this entity or in this instance thank you just so I understand that the process would really making this if we pass this motion and we we essentially be making that recommendation to the chairs of insurance the commerce said would that be your understanding that I don't have legal council in here right now I need to get him in here normally the head. Can do is have a group. A isp. And have it sent to my insurance and commerce. Because it's very unusual normal is just an individual saying this needs to be looked at an interrunt study but we're talking about is a committee of edge of the subcommittee of education article education we want to have an interim steady done. So I still determine where the issue really is and what we can do to address it both to banking and through education. And I think if we do it that way we would be able to to move a place with whatever it is we're trying to do. Okay. Alright so we will we have that motion we have the second so all in favor of say I all opposed. All right I service we have them we have that recommendation by the committee so i'll reach out to the chairs of insurance the commerce. And I will at least let them know that was recommended yes sinner urban yeah and then if if you do it that way then I mean you may visit with the chairs of audit but if it's a recommendation coming from this audit subcommittee you know you can. Have added. Create the isp working with you both as chairs of the subcommittee through alc and then that's how it would be referred to insurance and commerce are according to what senator chesterfield said so I think audit could assist with creating the isp and then it would go through I think alc then to be adopted and assigned to insurance and commerce but you could do that if you did it the week or we can vote on it maybe next week and get the ball rolling just just right is that correct process was I think that's correct I think that's correct profit yeah yep okay mr whites going to clarify for us here can I decide about it I think it's the motion of their standing committee is sufficient to refer and have in the chair report for tomorrow for adoption by the four committee and it could be a letter signed by the audit co chairs and just providing that recommendation to insurance and then it just gets sent to the insurance committee below we'll take care of it and they'll decide to chairs there weren't taken up when I think just that motion from the standing committee included in the chair report for adoption by the four committee will give authority to send the latter. Okay so that will be in our report tomorrow in front of full audit and that'll get the ball rolling so thank you center urban for making the motion are there any other questions on the reports for findings. Yeah. Okay we do have that we have reports in their findings. Yeah. Okay. Do you usually have anything yeah so the remaining of one hundred and nine reports listed on the last few pages of the synopsis consist of audits with no findings staff recommends that these reports be filed in mass has reviewed. Yeah so now do we have a motion to accept the reports motion second one in favor c I opposed the ice had it and I believe that covers all of our business anything else mister sullivan. All right say no more business were germed thank you.