Insurance & Commerce - Senate

All right, please, uh, please find, find your way to your seats. I'm fixing to see a corum. OK. Welcome to Insurance Commerce Che Corum, uh, today we're gonna be going over the uh Those reports that are that the prote has asked us to look at to see if we can remove some of these to lessen the burden of our agencies, so Uh, Alan, if you would come up if your deputy wants to. Uh, I think everybody's got a copy of the reports on their at their chairs. That. We'll just start with the first one, the Arkansas Health Insurance Marketplace report, uh, just introduce yourselves and and you won't have to do that but once and you're welcome to begin. Alan McLean, insurance commissioner. Jimmy Harris, Deputy Commissioner Market regulation. So Mr. Chair, did you just want me to just take, just give a summary of of the report and kind of what our recommendation you keep or get rid of type of thing, OK, that'll be fine and then you know we'll have discussion on, on what we want to do with each one as a recommendation from the committee, so. OK, all right, well, I'll start with the, the first one that I have, uh, in order, and that would be the Arkansas Health Insurance Marketplace report, we suggest removing that report. It is not one that is necessary for the department to do anymore. It's a and once upon a time it was when we, we did charge the user fees for that, that program, but the way the structure of that has changed, so we, we don't really need to do that report anymore, so that would be one we, I'm happy to give more information on that reasoning for that and In more detail if you want it. Me go ahead, Senator Flowers. You say the structure has changed. So what is the new structure and does that require a reporting. Good point. OK, no, um. When Aim transitioned to AID, uh, the user fees ceased, so we stopped collecting user fees, uh, for the marketplace, so there's uh there's really no need for the report anymore. The report was meant to let the legislature know what was being done with those user fees. And so The new structure is that this goes under AID. And so AID has no Reporting requirement for anything related to this. Health insurance. The the Arkansas health insurance marketplace. Used to be a much larger entity. That was was sort of in charge of the administration of uh the state-based exchange on the federal platform. I'm not sure your mic is on. I'm not sure it's it's been all right, so let's try that. How about that. OK. So Previously there was a an expense charge on Every policy. That was included in the premium, a user fee. Those fees were then used to fund the operations of aim. A hymn is a much smaller entity now that it has been rolled underneath the Arkansas Insurance Department umbrella. So expenses are down, and, and we don't collect that fee anymore. Uh, the, the, uh, uh The report was, uh, for, uh, just to report the assessment. Of of our user fees and where, where what we spent that money on, and there are no fees anymore. So is there a balance in the account where those fees were collected and when when was this? Done so that it's now under the Insurance department's umbrella. OK, so aim aim extensive by fiscal year, uh, there were around $2 million in the year ending 2019 when it was rolled under the insurance department. Currently, those fees are around 3 or I'm sorry, those expenses are around 330,000 in 2020. In 2021, they, they decreased to 234,000. Uh, funds remaining from those fees, I am, I, I can get that number for you. I'm, I'm not sure what that is, if there is any funds remaining. what, what are the funds used for now then? We spend approximately $500 million on marketing, uh, that's required by the federal government. On the state-based exchange, for instance, open enrollment. Um, navigators, agents that help ensure I thought we didn't have any navigators. We, we have, uh, uh, we have a navigator program. Really? Senator Flowers, Senator Irvin was did extensive work when she can help me understand that because I thought that was change over to our home it used to be this, but we changed it, and maybe she can answer whether there are any navigators. I thought that was. Delete it. So, um, and I apologize, I came in, so we're we're discussing the report submitted by the to the legislature by AID. Is that correct? OK. So on number one, so that's actually the health insurance marketplace. We actually did away with the the the structure of the marketplace. Is that not correct? And so this report should not be necessary anymore. Is that correct? I mean, that's the way I understand it now. The reason why we did away with that part of it was because we did do the expansion that went up to 139, and yes, we do have people that do work in conjunction with AID to try to transition people from if they roll off because of eligibility if they roll off the program, then we're trying to get them into the marketplace if they're above the 139% of federal poverty level. That's for the expansion population. Now there's some There's some other eligibility that are above that, like maternal, uh, is up to 209 of federal poverty level, but, but we do have people that coordinate and try to get folks if they've rolled off of our home to try to get them into the marketplace if they've exceeded their eligibility requirement. So so that's called navigator. And I, I would have to defer to insurance like DHS would Have something to do with Yeah, getting people back on if they've been removed and, and if he says it's, it's half a million dollars a year for the navigator. Is that what you're saying? And so you don't have no, no, no, no, no, half a million is our total budget that that is spent on, on marketing programs, open enrollment, uh, marketing, you see commercials, uh, that sort of thing around open enrollment. Uh, there's, there's a Kind of a, a, a minimum amount of marketing that we are required to do. As Partners are users of the federal platform. Which is half a million a year. I can get you those exact numbers, but it doesn't sound like your balance is going to cover. Maybe, but one year if it's half a million, I mean, where are you going to get the money for for doing your marketing. Senator Flowers, those fees have been removed, so they are not what covers that marketing plan and the report is what we're, you know, kind of focused on and, and that's outside, that's outside of that, so. Well, I'm just curious about the balance if if there's half a million dollars, what is it? Does it return to general revenue, where does it go? I can get you that information by the end of the day today. Senator Irvin, yeah, it could be a federal pass-through as part of the marketplace. I mean, there's probably some federal funding there that requires us to, uh, which is the appropriate thing to do and the right thing to do. We should be spending that money on marketing so that people understand it's open enrollment time. This is a time where you've got to, you know, enroll in healthcare insurance, and we, we want to promote that. I think that's probably what it is, but, um, but yeah, we This, this probably should have been removed when we removed the marketplace, and it just never was, OK, the balance of The, the fees that we used to collect back when aim salaries, you know, were a million dollars a year. Now they're 0 because they're funded by AID. The balance in that fund is around 3.1 million and correct, and we, we use around 220,000 annually on marketing and then the ref, the rest goes to AFMC to cover the call centers. So around we spent around $500,000 a year. Once those funds are exhausted, AID is going to have to start covering the expenses. OK. Thank you, um, is there any objection to uh I have a bill that has all these included already, but I'll remove the ones that, that we want to keep. I just wanted to do that upfront and but is it, is there any objection to removing this, this reporting if you, yes. It's not an objection, but I'm, I'm trying to understand how is this accounted for? To the legislature, your balance. At least maybe having a final report that shows a balance in what the use is for, for the balance, I mean, it just seems like this is gonna just disappear and We'll never know really what you're doing with it. We can, I mean, We can continue doing a report and show the decreasing balance as Jimmy described that the because we will, um, Because there is a balance and he's able to use it for the reasons that Jimmy said and it's some, some point in the years down the road we'll have to use our own agency budget to cover those expenses, but um But, well, do you, do you report the balance on on anything else. That you Sent to the legislature for review or It's reflected in our budget, yeah, it's reflected in our mannual budget. It's reflected as a balance from this, yeah, yes, ma'am. I don't have any objection. I mean, if they're reporting it. Already. Senator Ervin, I think Senator Flowers makes a great point, and which highlights the redundancy if you're it's, it's in, it should be a fund balance that's reported in their budget in a line item in the budget, so I think Senator Flowers makes an excellent point there. So we do definitely want the information about your spend, your balance, and what you're doing with it, and I think her point is well taken, but also she highlighted the redundancy of, of doing two reports when it's already in the budget mantle, so, yeah. I think we're good. We'll move on to number 2, the report on operations of Arkansas Healthcare Transparency Initiative. OK, that's a report that looks like this. You don't have a copy of it or anything, but it's this is you can't see it from here. I apologize, but it's the biennial report of the uh of AI, the Arkansas, uh, healthcare transparency initiative, uh, they prepare the report, we file it, it's uh Yeah Largely details the administration of the all-payer claims database and their use of insurance carrier data to do to do research. I think it's a good report to keep. It shows their activity and accountability for the funds that they get. So I would suggest keeping this one. Are there any questions from members? Without objection, we will, we will retain that report. Uh, moving on to the comprehensive performance review of Arkansas workers' competition compensation insurance plan. This one's a little more detailed, but I do recommend retaining this one. It is gives us the authority to do examinations and of of of our basically our assigned risk plan for workers' compensation. Arkansas enjoys a fairly low participation in the in the residual market, the assigned risk plan because rates in Arkansas are very low, and most people can get it on. the private market, but when, but there is a plan for people who have to go in to assigned risk pool, if you will, and when they're the higher risk and so there is a mechanism for us to examine the the plan and the people, the insurance companies that are participating in that plan. I think it's something we need to retain. I, yeah, when you retain. I can give you more information on it. It gets pretty granular in terms of the regulatory aspect of it, but it really is to ensure that the people, the insurance companies that are participating in that assigned risk plan or qualified carriers. There any questions on members. That was, that began whenever our workers' compensation, the pool was really low, low funding, right? You know, the prob it began when it was really Um needed and that there was so many people going to the plan because they couldn't get insurance coverage, workers' comp coverage anywhere else. So yeah, that, that's when the plan was very much more active and so it, but it's still something we have to monitor on a regular basis. Go ahead, Senator Flowers. I don't know how this is related, but you know, the surplus lines. Bill we had the other day. Does that assist with these companies being able to get this high risk. Insurance? No, no, ma'am. Uh, this So, our workers' compensation insurance plan NCCI is our plan administrator. What number 3 on on this list does the comprehensive performance review that, uh, that's a multi-state exam that takes place over 3 years on NCCI. High risk is going to mean something a little different in workers' comp than it does your property insurance market, our, our pool, our workers' comp pool for, for higher risk or residual market, you know, your contractors and and that sort of thing. NCCI administers the plan and there's 4 carriers that have um Have bid on a portion of, of our market and says hey, we will accept. This many, you know, this percentage of your residual market and and and we'll administer it. uh, no one is turned away. Uh, there's, there's, you know, fees are, are very, very tightly monitored, uh, in CI does an exceptional job administering this program. So this is a kind of a Blended multi-state. Well, no, it, it's, it's only for Arkansas, OK? Uh, NCCI only administers Arkansas's workers' comp. Pool Residual market workers' comp pool. And you all review. What they report is on 3 on this list is the comprehensive performance review. We rely on a multi-state exam where there's, I think there were 1516 states that that signed on to the last exam of our plan administrator NCCI. And what this refers to is if there were any findings or recommendations made in that exam to NCCI, we would come report those to you. OK, and that's what that is. It's, it's every 5 years, um. For instance, domestic insurance companies, we have a statute that we are required to examine them every 5 years. HMOs are every 3 years. Farmers Mutual Aid every 3 years. NCCI is an advisory organization. It's not really an insurance company. So we have a mechanism that requires an exam on that advisory organization running our workers' compensation pool. So we're gonna do an exam on them every 5 years. OK, thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you. So without objection we will retain number 3, number 4 is the annual review of Arkansas workers' compensation insurance plan operations and that was the one that was done whenever the whenever we were really low on funds in that balance, so go ahead. Yes, sir. Mr. Chair, this one we do recommend removing and, and again it it highlights several things about the Arkansas Workers' comp. market, it does go into just giving a report on some of the things Jimmy just referenced as far as our assigned risk plan and some, some, some data involved in that, but a big part of the report has morphed into a report on Act 796 of 1993 and in the last few years that I've presented this to you all in ALC more than once I've been asked why do you keep coming back and presenting this report, and so it's kind of because it's kind of the same thing every year because the workers' comp market in Arkansas is so very stable, and I'm old enough to have been around and in 1993 when this law was passed and the market, there were like 3 insurance carriers in the state at the time, and now they're doing workers' comp and now there's several 100 anybody can do it. The rates are low, the in the frequency of injuries are down techno technology is up, so this was when Act 796 was passed. It was asked that we include some of this performance information, so it's probably just outlived its usefulness. Thank you is there any questions? Go ahead, Senator Flowers. And it sounds like to me I might be wrong, but Number 3 kind of covers anything that That would have been in would be in this number 4. It covers the important parts of number 4, and that's addressing the the the residual market and the plan that we used to do that. You're right. It just one question, weren't you weren't you over the workers' compensation. commission. Yes ma'am, I'll director there for a few years, several years ago, I was right, thanks. Thank you. Is there any other questions? Without objection we will remove number 4. Um, Number 5, Gwendolyn's craniofacial law, craniofacial coverage report. Uh, go ahead. Um This one I will defer to the committee for a recommendation. It was I have to put on there to to remove it, uh, in our review of this and Senator Ervin sponsored the legislation. That's why I'm kind of looking at her that it required that we do two reports a year, a biannual report, not biennial, and um, we only discovered that in the last few weeks, I have to say, and so we have not done any reports on this and just having to throw myself at your mercy on that. We're and and the the law didn't actually specify what we were to report on, but we're, I think the intent was to streamline the complaint process for for medical providers trying to get some of these special procedures done and so we have that data and my staff's preparing it right now to do our first ever report. So again, up to you all whether you want to continue keeping this as part of the law or not, Senator Irvin, is it a matter of practice from the insurance department to not follow the law. No, ma'am, the that's not acceptable. I'm just, it's not acceptable for somebody to want a legislator to pass a law that you've never complied with. That's not acceptable. And so I, you know, this was 2021. We are now 2025, so 4 years, you'd never followed the law. And That's just, I'm, I'm sorry, but that's not acceptable. You must follow the laws that we pass. That is part of the reason why the rules and regulations, a constitutional amendment was referred to the people of the state of Arkansas and the people of the state of Arkansas voted to allow this legislature approval authority over rules and regulations because of the stuff exactly like this. And it's offensive, not just to me, but to every legislator it should be offensive, that if we pass laws, then we expect that the agencies will implement those laws to the letter of those laws. And so That's not OK with me. And so before we remove this, I would want to see one report. At least so at this time, and I will remove it if I see that report within this session. From you And you have complied with the law, then I will run a bill myself and I will remove that provision. But I, you know, Unacceptable. Thank you, Senator. I'm, I'm in no big hurry to run this and I need to, once we decide I need to get with the house in on, on the removal these reports because I think they'll probably have to do the same thing on our their end, so go ahead, Senator Flowers. Well I I understand what Senator Irving is saying, but um, is craniofacial. Coverage. Existing Arkansas insurance plan. Is it exempted? Is it, does it exist? Is it available? Yes, it, it's typically typically done by a craniofacial specialist and um specialist insurance. Yeah. I'm trying to understand what this is, uh, obviously some Type of procedure cra your brain or something. or something policies is my question. So, I probably could answer your questions, Senator Flowers. These are very complicated cases of individuals that have severe disorders that require multiple surgeries, cranial facial. would mean the front area of your, I mean, your cranium obviously is your head, but it's, it's with the mouth and the teeth and the dental because they they can't speak or they can't eat, and so it's a very specialized procedure, and so, um, and, and requires multiple surgeries, so they have severe abnormalities, um, and, and so the reporting mechanism was really a level of accountability to make sure that we knew what was being covered because a lot of these several of these these individuals would have to go out of state in order to seek the treatment, and it became very complicated, so we, I worked very closely with Blue Cross Blue Shield and the other insurers on the legislation just to make sure that we had some good steps in place for review of what would be medically necessary for these individuals for their surgery. in their treatment, but it's, but I can, I can describe it to you more offline. I appreciate that, but I, I'm just trying to understand if it's a matter of people having access to treatment. are Some type of procedure that will help them with this issue is that it as opposed to whether the insurance plans of Arkansas offer it. Yeah, yes, I think it's 2 things because you want to make sure that if they do have an insurance plan that does cover it, that they're able to get the surgeries that they need through authorizations um from the insurance company ma'am, yes ma'am. Yes ma'am. And so Does that require ARD To collect information. From Insurance companies are doctors or whatever the ability to, the ability to make sure that uh that they're not just denying every claim that comes through or every request that comes through, but that there's an actual, that they're following the law and the law states I'm trying to follow the insurance companies would follow the law and following what the laws says, which is a team of people that review these cases and go through kind of a plan of hair, um, that looks at the Arkansas, it's with the insurance department, it's with your insurance companies, but the insurance department, it is their purview. They're the insurance commissioner and that and all insurance companies are under their purview and so they're the, they are the consumer protection agency. So they collect the data. Have y'all been collecting this information from these insurance companies, so occasionally. We will get a complaint. From a, a, uh, provider generally always a provider. Uh, that's says this insurance company uh considers these services as dental insurance, not necessarily. Medical coverage or medical benefits, so they'll deny the claim because they their health insurance, they say, well, that's dental, and then that they'll they'll reach out to us, the provider, uh, we, we, uh, we've received one complaint, uh, in, in 2024, 9 in 2023, there were 11 complaints filed in 2022 for which directly involved interpretation of Services, the other were uh uh related to uh timely prior authorization, recoupment, unfair claims practices, that sort of thing. Uh, which I assume that's what we would include in the report, the amount of claims and and which were we we'll get, um, but, but generally that's how they start. It's a, it's an interpretation of, hey, this is not a covered medical benefit. So I would ask Senator Irvin, since they indicate on their the sheet. No purpose stated. And I haven't read the act did you intend for the insurance department to reach out to insurance companies, I think, I mean, I approved. I don't know why they, I don't know why on this piece of paper it says purpose, not no purpose stated. The act itself is the purpose. Yeah, there's, there's a line at the end of the, the legislation that says we shall report biannually, which is twice a year, I think on on the law, so it was But we're I think the things we talked about would be perfect to put in the report, right? And then that's what we're trying to see like is we want to know, we want to know where the problems are and where the issue is and so that things can be more clearly defined that what is authorized, what is medical, and what is dental, because these are people center flowers. I'm not sure if you remember the movie Mask. Mask, the movie Mask. It was a long time ago. Anyway, there is a certain syndrome. and I can't, I can't remember the name of it, but where there's severe facial abnormalities that occur and in order for these people to be able to eat or speak, they have to have both dental work and Medical surgery. And so a lot of times it was being denied because they're saying, oh, that's dental, no, this was very intensive medical necessity surgery so that somebody could eat. And so that should be covered and so those are the types of things the insurance department is a consumer advocacy department. They are there to protect consumers. They are there to regulate the insurance industry and so this is a consumer driven piece of legislation. I don't want to rehash all of it. I worked really hard on it. My, my point is, there is a reason why we wanted the reporting was to see where we needed to go in. change, if anything, uh, the way that the law was written and it was agreed to bill with Blue Cross Blue Shield and the insurance industry that we have a very specific guideline on how these things are determined. And so the reporting is, is it working? Is it not working? Where does it need to be retooled? So there is a purpose for these reports, and that purpose would be for us as legislators we pass legislation. Sometimes it works and sometimes it needs to be tweaked, and so the reporting kind of gives us that ability, so again, I think, you know, I'd like to see that information and that data and then if it becomes unnecessary, then we could address that at that time. Thank you, Ellen, so y'all can give a comprehensive report from 21 through through current, correct? That's right, we'll get everything up to date. I would, I would, you know, suggest that as soon as possible and, and, and bring it back to the committee, and I'm going to hold all these until we can do them all at once, and we'll make that decision and with Senator Irvin's input on this one, so that way, that way we don't have to run a bunch of individual individual. Legislation we had most of it together this morning. It was just this one just slipped through the cracks and we apologize for that. It's really easy to get the information. Well, I know, I know you hadn't been in place since 2021, so I and, and, and the law was a big process and then the rulemaking process was really extensive after this one too. It took a year after the law was passed to get settled on the on the rule, and we had a big exhale at that time because it was a big lift for everybody, but we, we should have done better in making sure these reports were done, so we'll get it all up to date. Alright, thank you. uh, we'll go on to number 6, which is a report of the administrator of risk management division. You know we have a management division and and and which handles all the state property insurance and the portion of the public schools and so There was a requirement for the risk manager to do a report and a number of years ago apparently we were told to quit doing it, but no, no, no law was ever changed to do that. So, but in our annual report, which, which is our last one on here, there is a section for our risk management division and of course this is one that we plan on asking to retain, I think it makes sense to include we already have a section in there, so essentially the risk management division has been providing a report just it's aggregated into this annual. support of ours and not a standalone report. So if we remove this one, it's already rolled into the the last one you're asking to retain, right? And then we can always add add more rigor to that reporting if we need to. Do you any questions? Go ahead, Senator Flowers. So you say add that to the last one that we're going to retain. The last one is number 3. I understand. No, the last one is number 80, the last one, yeah, the last report that we're going to review is is already, already contains the risk management report. What, what did you just say about school plans, what? What did you just say? I can't hardly hear you. I'm sorry. I need to get closer to the mic, Senator, the, we have a public school property insurance program that that some public schools in the state are part of other public schools are part of the Arkansas School Board Association program, so we do have a number of public schools, not even half of them, but we do have a program that public schools can be a part of for for their property insurance. So that's one of the things that the risks, but we also, you know, covered this building and all public buildings in the in the state, all state-owned buildings. And so these policies that cover the school districts, I guess, they're going to be included in this number 8, is that what you're saying? Yes, ma'am. OK. I've never seen these reports. I don't know that I would that's why we're getting rid of a number of them filed before. Yes, ma'am, and then, and then we have that information in our annual report already, so we'll, I think the annual report is going to prove to be a good composite of some of these things for you. OK. Thank you. uh, without objection, I will remove that and we're still on hold with all these until we make a decision on number 5, but number 7 is a criminal investigation division annual report on health insurance fraud. Uh Also, we have a section in our annual report for the criminal investigation division. It does not report the particular medical insurance fraud, which is a very important. We do have that as a separate report. We can continue doing that as a separate report, or you can eliminate this one and allow us to break out that health insurance fraud information into our annual report, which I'm going to do anyway, because I think it's good to have an all in one place. I think it would be duplicative. To continue doing a separate report. So with your permission, I would, I would like to just fold this into our our regular annual reporting, so will it, we'll have to remove this code and you'll just include it into your annual report, right? That's right, sir. Without Being mentioned in in code that would be totally up to you if you want to leave it in code that we will include it in our annual report, that's fine, but that's that's the, that's the plan because right now we have aggregate numbers of criminal referrals and investigations, prosecutions, convictions in our annual report for all lines of insurance fraud, but we will break out this in which many number of insurance fraud, right? But it includes the health insurance fraud, but we'll break out the the health insurance. sector in the annual report. Go ahead, Senator Irvin. Yeah, I, I think it's an important reporting. I think it's important information, but I agree just to move it to the annual report, but maybe leave it in code, but just change it to where it's part of your annual report. That's what I would do because I think that's important information to leave in the code. Well, I will get that in the draft to to put it in code that it goes into the annual report rather than removing it completely and just making an assumption that you're going to include it. Is, is there any objection to that? All right, thank you, uh, we're going to number 8, which sounds like it's becoming more important all the time, right, that is our Arkansas insurance department annual report and Russ Galbraith is here, our chief deputy, and it was fell under his charge to produce the last one, so that that's has a lot of great data in it that I think you will enjoy. I actually emailed a copy of this to all the and commerce. Before January 1, that that membership. So I'm sure you get tons of email. You probably didn't take time to thumb through it. You may have, but I did submit this to to both House and Senate insurance and commerce committees back in December. So and I'm happy to send another another copy around and get you all hard copies for that matter. Go ahead. Uh I like a hard copy and also Mr. She, I ask so are these all the reports that you all are Required to to give Yes. Yes, yes. I guess you say that's enough, huh, that's kind of what I'm saying, yeah, but happy to do more. We always want to make sure we're operating in full transparency and giving you all the data you need because you know, you make the laws for us. I'd ask them if they have any recommendations for any new reports. Hadn't really thought about that, Senator. Go ahead, Senator Ervin, and then Senator McKee. I do, I do think Senator Flowers makes a good point, and, you know, sometimes it's just basic communication for the agency to ask the committee, hey, we'd like to present this report, you know, and with a hard copy. I actually think that's a good thing to do, whether the law requires it or not, it's just a matter of Good business for the state of Arkansas, you know, and I know that, you know, I think doing it part of the committees, I think is a good idea, versus just doing it in a report and filing it. I think it's, I think it should behoove you as an agency to reach out to the committees and say, or to the chairs and say, hey, I think we'd like to have this report done. I mean, I'm just speaking from my perspective on public health. We have a lot of reports. It's really good information and so A lot of times with an agency, you know, contacts me. I'm absolutely wanting to put them on the agenda because we all need to be updated and educated because we may find through your report something needs to be changed within the law, and that's, that's kind of our job, so I think it's very beneficial and helpful. Thank you, Senator Ervin. So whenever whenever you get that report on The number 5 Wendolands and Whenever you do that, bring this annual report with a hard copy and hopefully there'll be a lull inaction of meals and hearing bills so we can, we can go over that, uh, those, those two reports and make a decision. So go ahead, Senator Flowers. Well, I'm just wondering about the bill we passed the other day about uh The surplus line brokers and the fees. That are charged for that. As well as there was The regular get property insurance. Is that in your report too? Do you all have Do you all give us an idea of how much Fee. Individual fees are charged. Do you keep do, do, do insurance companies report that to you? I mean, is, does that come to you in the way of a complaint or something. No, ma'am. Uh, fees are generally not reported to us, surplus lines rates are not filed with us either, um. So the short answer is no. Well, what about the other, uh, I think it was called property or casualty insurance. Is that Reported the fees. No, individual producer fees are not reported. There is a cap on any, any property and casualty agent. 20% that can exceed 20% of Total premium, you know, adding up commissions, fees and everything cannot accept unless it's reasonable to charge a little more. That was, that was what the bill was addressing for surplus lines correct. So with the property and casualty insurance there is no room for Anything above the 20% in the admitted market, you are correct, Senator Flowers. OK. Just seems like Well I'll leave it at that. Thank you, Senator. Is there any, any other business? We will hear meals on Thursday, uh. Just have to probably do it at 9 on Thursday. Go ahead, Senator Boyd. So Mr. Insurance Commissioner, while you're there are Jimmy, either of you like. Um, we had talked about a potential special order of business on resiliency legislation. Do you have some dates when we could potentially get a an expert here that we could ask Mr. Chair to consider while you're here. I don't, we don't have the specific dates my expert. indicated he's very flexible, so I think he only had a few that he ruled out, right? Yeah, he would like to target maybe the week of the 10th of February or the following week after to allow him to make some travel arrangements to fly in from Kansas City. That's perfect. I'll get with Mr. Chair and be in touch. Thank you. Go ahead, Senator Flowers. Are you talking about some I'm Is it a bill that's been filed that we're going to consider, I'm working on some resiliency legislation, so that has to do with how you built your home. Uh, it hasn't been filed yet. I've got to finalize some touches, but I'm gonna need some expert testimony to help us understand and I just want to, while we're here, while we have them at the end of the table, just uh, get, get some input while we're here as a committee, and so I've got what I need and I'll file a bill pretty soon, OK, so you don't plan to. it when when they come and present whatever they're going to, I plan to file it soon and then run it when I have some people here who can help us understand what's happened in other states. So, I'm I'm, I'm trying to understand this. I mean, you're gonna resiliency is so like for instance, we, Arkansas is the only state that's 100% in tornado alley now, right? So our insurance rates are going up, so resiliency refers to building homes that are resilient against storms. They are more resilient. And so when I say resiliency legislation, that's, that's what I'm talking about. So we, you know, Insurance rates, property and casualty rates are going up, and we need to work to stabilize them, and this is, there are some things that other states have done that I think Arkansas needs to take a serious look at. And so I'm drafting legislation, but I'm going to need some outside expertise to help explain it to the committee. Does have a weatherman here to say that Arkansas is the only state that 100% in a tornado. I, I, I don't know that I'll have a weatherman, but uh I I never heard that before. Well, we had in the previous General Assembly, we had testimony that from Property and casualty insurers that we are the only state, so it used to be Oklahoma, but it is shifted back towards Arkansas. And so, you know, hail storms and tornadoes are, are an issue and part of that is going into what's causing rates to property and casualty rights then to go up and then, as you know, to have a mortgage on your home, you got to have property and casualty insurance. So now then that affects mortgage. rate or the people paying their mortgages because, you know, that's escrowed in there. So when prepared to say a lot about it today, but there's not been a bill filed, but there will be one soon. And I just wanted to ask them when we could get an expert here while they're at the end of the table. OK, thank you, Senator Ervin. So just Senator Boyd, did you, do you, did you follow what we did with property and casualty insurance as it pertained to all the school properties because we had some experts come in and testify, basically, I think maybe along the lines of what you're talking about, but I would just recommend maybe you could pull those reports as well that might be beneficial to you. Yeah, so and that was creating a captive for a specific bank, so yes, we, we, it's been an ongoing discussion and we're going to continue it. If there's no other business, we'll probably come back at 9 on Thursday because normally we'll be at 11 for the floor, so we'll we'll begin our our business at 9 so. No, not, not this week. That tomorrow or the next day? So, apparently the bankers, the bankers' association is here. Does anybody have a question? Yeah. Well, I'd like for him to come up here and I was just, I just, I was just kidding and, and, and, and the Senator Boyd is working on that legislation and we'll bring that back whenever he's able to, but we, we appreciate you, uh, to being with us. Uh, we are adjourned. OK, so.