ALC-JBC Budget Hearings

Members chair sees a quorum we have no reports for communications today so we'll move right along to see one. it be department transformation and shared services. And there's a handout on your desk and we'll go ahead and get secretary to the table. They have so if you guys would go ahead introduce yourself for the record in England start explained the handout. Hi I'm Amy fed sure secretary transformation insured services. Alex Johnston administrative officer for transformation insured services. Thank you Mr chair in committee members we appreciate the opportunity to come back today and show you some of the successes from transformation I'm gonna go to a power point which you have printed out on on your desk. In March of twenty nineteen after just nine months operating under ACT nine ten we submitted a report to you all that had twenty six million realize savings. Today this report builds upon that report and covers the period of July one to the present which is the the time when ACT ten became legal data was pulled for the most part on what you're going to see today on November fourth of this year and the data is always fluctuating as you know and finally I just want to point out before we get started that the department of transformation and shared services does not have daily access to all of the information you're going to see I can't just pull it up I have to rely on data that is provided volunteer laid by the other fourteen departments to prepare this report. So the concept of reorganization and transformation of state government was built on three principles outlined in governor Hutchinson's proposal it's never been simply about dollars and cents although that is a very important component of transformation the three pillars as you can see our efficiencies which is both and processes and finding improved managerial support and improve delivery of services to the citizens. There was a lot of research that we relied upon when developing the transformation planned some included to performance audits but let me by legislative audit but then two thousand one and two thousand and seven they developed a report and then updated it recommending the consolidation of the numbers of regulatory boards we also worked with the Arkansas efficiencies report in twenty sixteen. Which. Sorry about that. which developed over sixty recommendations much of which we have already implemented and then there were reports by price Waterhouse coopers as well. So in March of this year when we reported the twenty six point seven million in savings we focused on five areas and we've continued with the report today to focus on those it's facilities budget reduction personnel. Reinvested savings and transformation efficiencies. Number one is facilities suppose transformation many departments have co located where possible this makes it easier for citizens to access these services and is you can see we have a smaller footprint less square footage we reduce it by now ninety two thousand. And reduction in cost of the rental which is at one point four million. The number you have on your screen there that does not include the space that was increase due to the pandemic because we now that'll eventually go away however even if you included those we would have a savings of over five thousand square feet and over nine hundred and twenty eight thousand dollars. To its budget reduction as you all know there was a ten million dollar line item reduction in the performance fund. So just to remind you that the DFA find the performance fund it set the DFA and it's a find that departments can tap into to award employees their performance raises if their budget does not cover that amount. So this year twelve out of fifteen departments were able to find their performance races through savings within their departments this year and many were last year as well this saved us from having to utilize that performance fund but over twelve million dollars many years in the past it would have been utilized at a much higher rate. As you see the diagram here because as requested by you all we wanted to break everything down by department so this just shows the performance fund savings broken down by the twelve departments and as you can see the over twelve million dollars indicated their. Three is personnel since July first of twenty nineteen when ACT ten became law we are down fourteen hundred field positions. This chart that's before you is broken out by an authorized budgeted infield positions and cents twenty fifteen during this administration you can look in the reductions column and see that we are down over twenty five hundred positions filled positions. This number before you does represent the positions that were added in response to the pandemic and as you know DWS DTS ES a and the health department had significant increases in positions of course as we said earlier this numbers always fluctuating. The next slide is just the representation of personnel and it shows by department the field positions all departments all fifteen have had a reduction other than the inspector general's department which is is that neutral and has remained the same and the department of the military which is up eight positions. Now this slide shows Surrendered positions on personnel. So the as you know the budget process is quite lengthy there's a a significant amount of lag time from when DFA and departments load their budget into the system and when that general session actually happens. Budgets are presented as flat so the numbers that you've been reviewing during these budget hearings have not represented these surrendered positions but we have a total of six departments throughout the last two years that have chosen to surrender hundred and sixty six positions which totals over six million dollars. These can be represented during the session with the governor's letter. But we just wanted to indicate that to you that those have been surrendered you can only take positions out during a general session so we only have the opportunity every two years to take positions and surrender them. The fourth topic is what we call reinvested savings I like to say it's more bang for your Buck. Departments reinvested savings with in their department to do more without coming to you and asking for more funding. No programs were cut. No jobs were lost and we're still getting the same level of services as before just more efficiently. Three examples there on your page in on the screen include public safety inspector general and corrections some of them are very small. Like reducing their copy your cost and some of a rather large. But at TSS we have a database that has fifty four of these reinvested savings and it totals over eight eighteen million dollars. The next slide just breaks that reinvest the savings down by department and you can see where each one has that is represented. The last one number five is what we call transformation efficiencies these are initiatives are programs that departments have absorbed with no additional funding many of these are required by statute we have four examples on your page of our database that has forty seven an example is in the department of agriculture at nineteen and move the unpaved roads grant program to agriculture and by absorbing the administrative costs they were able to provide more funding to go into the grant program. And these represent over eight million dollars and transformation savings. The next slide just shows you those efficiencies broken down by the seven departments that have reported those two as of the over eight million dollars. So if you total up the five categories we've been talking about today since ACT ninety and became law in July first twenty nineteen we have really lies over fifty seven million dollars in savings from Jess these five categories but there's more. Other initiatives during this administration which were not included in nineteen ninety and. One of which was recommended by the efficiency report by the Arkansas policy foundation and call the quick when was recovering and paid state taxes. Since twenty sixteen the FAA is added a second she F. to call center that calls individuals after hours which they didn't have before the twenty sixteen and just by doing that and and being able to call people when they're at home they for covered over forty million dollars in back taxes. This number was not included in our total of the fifty seven million. So I just want to point out again it's not all dollars and cents with transformation. These are examples on your page where processes have been improved for the citizens and for state employees. Nine health boards have lowered their licensing fees. There was a fire portal developed that Adam for over nine hundred fire departments to access and to apply for grants on. Eliminating it duplication of services that DFA for motor vehicle tobacco control and ABC came together. And then several state wide enterprise solutions that we've worked on just having at the communication aspect that the fifteen departments allows has been so essential during the pandemic. We've developed uniform policies across the departments that we did not have before transformation and and departments would do things very differently from one department to another. We've reduced paper form significantly and we've increased digital processes some examples are our new HR system called Arkansas careers working to implement E. procurement system and just websites in general there were many boards and commissions that were so small they had no web presence but now being part of a larger department they have that which makes it much easier access FOR citizens of the state. There are many more examples but this is just a few. So again our total today to present to you is fifty seven million. If you were to count the tax revenue alone this would be over a hundred million dollars. And I just want to say to you that transformation is a process it's not a destination that will ever get to it's not a one time event or a bill. It's ongoing. We are striving for continuous improvement and savings and over the next budget cycle we look forward to even more savings. So now I want to put present to you a dash board. I'm having a change appear out but. Over the last two and a half weeks based on feedback from you all we have developed a dash board is the creation of Robert may gave it D. I. S. and a whole team there as well as the FAA the asus service center the office of budget and the office of accounting have worked feverishly over the last two and a half weeks to show you real time numbers by department as you requested. This system this dashboard is not live yet. This we're unveiling it today this is the the first version it is tied to a CIS some numbers will be pulled and calculated as departments put in put in their data. It's not completely finished but we will have expenditures personnel members square footage utilization and success stories. It will be house down the TSS website it will be easily accessible by any of you at any time. By any state employee or by any citizen that is interested in this data. We'll update it monthly but you can also drill down bye week or even by day. Alternately you also be able to drill down by agency or division. Three as you. At this I wish you had a print out but it we just don't have that yet it does show the expenditures by category all categories are not loaded yet but we have general revenue in there S. as well as a few others and you can go by department. It is from July first of twenty nineteen to present. I'll have personnel ill have it by type. Actual budgeted. And we tried to tailor this to the request that we've been hearing throughout the budget meetings. And with that Mr chair I'll close and take any questions. The sixty six that. Representative all. You're recognized. You Mr chair exactly how much is that dashboard going because the state. It didn't cost anything existing employees developed it just just their time. And there. So we're not paying them anything to do that just their salary okay. I have others that I'll get back in the queue Mr chair. Thank you. Absent a Cavanaugh sixty one. You're recognized. Who's in seat sixty one of sorry Mr of I'm sorry Senator hammer you're recognized thank you Mr Amy thank for the presentation you made a comment at the beginning it said about to the agencies I think you mentioned fourteen that are voluntarily submitting the info could you expand on that comment please. I was just trying to Make it clear that. At the department of transformation shared services we don't have a database that we can just click in and see what the expenditures are until this for the department of commerce or the department of corrections we we are not able to access all of the data provided on this without it being given to us by the department. How does that correlate with the dashboard that you're showing us today is four C. agencies submitting a you and a guest on trying to have a little trouble understanding is if they're not. If they're not submitting it to you or it's being done on a volunteer basis but yet we can click on this daily and see it daily well this is the privatization this is tied to asus to our accounting system so so these are numbers that we can access to A says some of the things that are not accessible would be a success stories about what they're doing or how they are re investing their savings that wouldn't be on a dashboard and than what they've reported but the personnel numbers the expenditures that's tied to aces so it will be actual numbers and why would they not give that information what would it take for them to remove that from the volunteer status to required status that they give you the information that they readily give us the information when we request it's not a problem to get it I just feel like there are some that that think that I can just pull it up at any time on my computer I guess in the systems just not built that way so that that was my only point okay thank you Mr. Represent Cavenaugh thank you Mr chair I want to talk to you about some of the savings that you brought out to us one is on the performance fund. My question basically is you're saying that we have a savings of twenty two thousand twenty two million dollars. So is that a actual reduction in monies spent for the state or is it just a reallocation of where this money was actually funded from the ten million dollars was a line item that was reduced in the budget by ten million dollars in the performance fund the the FAA so that's in a reduction the twelve million over twelve million was used at the department level so they would not have to tap into that performance fund so you can call it a reallocation of money you could call it that yes well that's really what it is because the state still had to write that check it doesn't matter what fund it came out of is that not correct. That that that is one way of saying it Representative Cavenaugh I believe that you know the efficiencies we found throughout transformation have helped to to bring this number down significantly. But with money we still had to spend it's just that it was funded through another source. Deal we were the performance funds for employees was funded yes ma'am right but it was funded through the department's rather than this fund we still pay the money out it wasn't a tree savings as far as what we're talking about was savings is actual reduction of budget. It was just that it didn't get paid other performance fund it got paid through the funding of the actual departments yes I said yes to that thank you. Sorry about that. Get some questions of hold on one second. So Senator hammer to give you an answer we're going to have this posted this of power point posted to the website as an attachment so if you go to the RK website it'll be over in the attachments. Thank you senator. Representative gray I think you're in forty one yes thank you thank you Mr chair. I'm just looking at three some of these slides that you presented and I came a little bit late so I'm not as something that you've already. Thank you we are already responded to a but on the surrendered positions by department a lot of times what we see is that you'll surrender positions not issue but departments in general will surrender positions but also ask for other positions new positions can you tell me out of these positions that were surrendered how many new positions to their place. I do not have that information. A K. would you have that information handy. We could get that for you okay thank you let's finish as I'm looking at savings I want to make sure that it's a true savings number and not but we gave these up we also have to take into account how many new ones we got into a net savings and if I might have one other question Mr chair. Thank you and on the the rents piece on the savings on that is that just savings to general revenue or does that include the cash agencies all the boards and commissions. It would be everything okay so that does include the boards and commissions that are now paying okay yes thank you. Senator Chesterfield you're recognized. Thank you Mr chair and welcome to the committee thank you we purchased several buildings over the last several years what was the cost of those buildings. I do not have an exact cost and I don't believe we've purchased any buildings since July one of twenty nineteen Verizon was purchased by us was in a. I just without the purchase was after July one twenty nineteen yes we're dealing with twenty nineteen twenty twenty and you're saying that you have saved money on rent. But. Get the cost of the buildings exceed the amount of rent that you're taking. The cost of the buildings. He's me is not included in that but the amount that the entities with and the building in the department of commerce are paying has been reduced the that's not my question. My question is what was the cost of the building. At the cost of the building exceeded one million four hundred eleven dollars and fifty five one million four hundred eleven dollars four hundred eleven thousand fifty five dollars. How do we save money. Well I'll have to get the exact amount on the purchase of the building director Laidlaw do you know that amount because I anticipate that that the rise and probably cost more than a million dollars. However you could say some of those entities were renting from private individuals and said this is an investment in the state with owning the bill say that but that's still not my question. Good morning and late law director building authority I'm you are many buildings that we purchased. And division of building authority did a bond issue to purchase the commerce building that transaction was completed on June twenty ninth that's the only building we purchased that we've purchased since transformation yes ma'am. Was there one immediately before transformation. How many building. Two years have you purchase let me just put it that way. Again the division the building authority is only purchased one building on you may be thinking of department communication purchased a building that was for their new headquarters that was read located over on to pike Avenue north little rock they did make that purchase they made that purchase not division of building authority okay so I'm responsible for the portfolio buildings that we manage and operate so it's only the one the commerce building and you're correct that did exceed over a million dollars it was twenty five million to make an that's why I'm trying what I'm trying to get to if you spent twenty five million. And you're telling me however that just saved one million. Well how does that work with the the state part we used a bond issue so there was a bond issue that was done so that the state could purchase that building from the developed from Arkansas development finance authority we now collect rent for the tenants in the building that rent revenue is used to pay our debt service for the building so we did not have to come out of pocket for that because we did a bond issue for that funding so we are now debt service exceed the amount of rent this being taken in no ma'am how much is the debt service for you I'm for a each year it's around one point four million dollars revenues for the building are over two million well here it says that we save one point four eleven that's the amount of that's been state that's the amount of rent that was being paid. Before transformation and then post transformation and I just like to point out transformation did not make the decision to purchase the vert Verizon building follow the what was closed during our time the decision to purchase that that building was made prior to July of twenty nineteen and I'm not saying that you made the decision I'm just trying to get to real numbers. And if we are paying one point four million in debt service and we're taking nine one point four eleven million in rent. No ma'am we're not doing it that way we're taking in over two million in that building is what is what director like law was saying the one point four million is the savings of what was being paid before and what is being paid now in rants so after that to remit. Did you deduct those numbers of what it I mean I'm trying to figure out how you got to the one point four. We took the ran amount that each entity was paying before transformation and took the amount that they're paying now and that's the difference but you didn't include the amount of bonded indebtedness now you have no ma'am why is that not a part of this savings because the topic was rental savings of I see. The topic is facilities track to get the okay alright thank you Mr chair a local get the answer. Representative Wooten and now represent of all teacher request button back please hit the wrong button I'm sorry. Thank you Mr chairman up I have two three questions. pursuing senator Chesterfield what that one point four million one how much interest or you paying each month on that date or a annually. What was termination for you will have to get that information on the interest in this twenty five million dollar bond issues for the or how many years. Thirty years thirty thirty year by al bond yes Sir and we but we don't have the rate of interest handy. Or how much and how much is the coast in yeah annually. One point four million. She said will be happy to get you that information is important I think that'd be interesting to look at the interest calls forces. And then we we have three numbers here I will choose a hero yesterday we were told that the or the governor stated the other day in this press conference admin savings of twenty six point five million what we what we fell down in the in in the hearing yesterday was the fact that that twenty six point five million was really what was not has not been re upped in budgets relative to the revenue stabilization act D. where everything was cut out that's one number. The also came out in that same conversation was the fact that you have presented to somebody someone I never saw it the report of twenty seven million dollars in savings to transformation okay so between yesterday and today that number jumped thirty million dollars right because the twenty six million that was talked about yesterday with the report that was presented to say state and Senate state agencies our house and Senate state agencies I mean I in March of twenty twenty. So then this report as I said updates that in builds upon it so this is the twenty six point seven million plus what we found since March until November fourth okay Hey Hey Hey did you have those agencies deal with those positions over two years so your number would have been a lot more your current governor we're to go out and credit for a lot more savings. We we we we're still talking about that I mean I understand what you're talking about fifty seven million what it what do you what are you all going do about those positions it been helped out there back as long as two thousand and nine and are we going to deal with the insurance of state benefits and I will get blamed for calls in the state employees to lose insurance benefits that's not what I'm after I'm not after tone because I'm after the three hundred and six million that's tied up in salaries and and the shell game is someone put a made the statement it's a shell okay we need to deal with that and if you all have dealt with that in this you you would have much more savings yes Sir we have heard your comments throughout the budget hearings and really are looking at this closely and now secretary Walter and I've talked about it several times and it is something to consider as you know and we've talked it would require weird we're dealing with the system we have and it would require a significant revamp of the budgeting cycle and so we're we're happy to work with you however we can't on that so. Appreciate that and we were I think we're going to make some progress secretary Walter is indicated he's willing to all you're willing to all and I sure thank the month so server most of all some of my colleagues are willing to discuss it I think it's a tremendous opportunity that we have through transformation if you will to look at these positions thank you Mr chairman. Oh sorry with ribs and would not already hit but not think it's Representative Sullivan and seat fourteen. You're recognized Representative over here to your right. Yes I'm looking at slide three were talk about personnel and maybe I just missed it but is there a dollar amount that goes which eat with each one of those there should be an average. Salary costs average salary state employee salaries around forty five thousand dollars but because you know these were specific positions we did not put a dollar amount to it but you know as an average you could could multiply the total out by forty five thousand okay I'm just looking at your your grass up here with with there be a of in order to have a reference point along with those savings to have plotted out the dollar amount that goes along and a budgeted an appropriation about line up there so we can see that relative to what the budget is what the appropriation as what we're actually spending. As long as we can get that information from asus yes we're we're happy today that can you really help give a reference point you were we see jobs were losing positions are surrender positions whatever you call that but there's a budget line that goes out there are the number of people who are up A positions appropriated every want to say that that those of the lines are out there so that one has a reference point in looking at those graphs I think that would really help thank you it's a great suggestion okay thank you thank you Mr chair and that was one reason we wanted to bring it to you all Mr chair is if there are things you would like to see on this dashboard it's not live and so we were we welcome those suggestions thank you. A co chairman but so you're recognized alright thank you I'm just wondering I'm just curious could I have a break down of the rent agencies located in commerce building yes we can get that information thank you. A Senator rice you're recognized. Senator rice you. Okay seat eighty. I'm in a okay you're recognized and I'll be senator rice. Today if you will say he might not want that of this venture I think one of the things we're trying to get at here is the true savings and you know we sort look it and in business true savings is what we're not expending. And what are our savings are no you've got a great example in here of it appears to be a true savings uses the you you and in the end the documents as the inspector general consolidated their postage machines from to lease bit me boast machines by dropping one contract thereby saving seven hundred and twenty dollars annually that's a savings to the state. I think we're we want to try to get some hard numbers of what the true savings are the last time you were here we had a discussion about some cash agencies that were I don't know they were doing some things not run it through the treasury and the treasury was call of the state treasurer's office which charging of a premium because they weren't handling I guess their investments I can't remember exactly what it was and there was a savings attached to that correct. But that savings really was a false narrative in that it really wasn't a savings to the state of Arkansas because either the treasurer's office was going to get a premium or the agency was going to a that with the cash agency was expending the money it was just a paper transaction where you took it out of your left pocket you put in your right pocket but it was still with the state of Arkansas I think that's what we're all trying to get it here is what exactly are these hard numbers that are true savings like your Pitney Bowes example. Cell I would say that even the seven hundred dollars Senate heaved by consolidating the at Pitney Bowes machines at the department inspector general would be something that that they use that money to be able to do more there so I guess if if you're looking at true savings is being money that's just turned back into the state and not expended a I don't have a number for that and I never will let me look at me I thought I had the simplest I really provided the simplest example of a savings yes a savings is something that we can use that we don't have to budget for because we've saved money again I think we're looking at hard cash savings I think of Representative Cavanaugh was trying to make that very point that's what we're after here not blues gas in in savings of necessarily just something that's hard to qualify but you qualified here review Pitney Bowes that's money we we have to expand for something else that's a savings but US savings in the treasury department where you you know there is no money created by anything else with your words that's what we're looking for an example of the treasury is not included in this numbers I believe that might have been something that labor licensing was discussing about some of the boards and commissions that were not running their funds their special cash funds through the treasury but but that is not represented did not report okay so so that was a misunderstanding on on to its what was presented to us. Okay I see Mister Billy. At. We did a office budget thank you for letting me jump in here but I think of the last few years and in particular as few weeks we had this great conversation about what you're talking about is really getting down to the bottom line and the the members of the joint budget committee in some of the questions that I serve really honed in on kind of how do we measure that. The reality is that the budget system we have in the budget manuals that my office produces. Doesn't do a good job of identifying that it's not really billed to to provide that information. And and so I think what's going on with that the to the dashboard appear and the conversations that we're having here is really moving in that direction it'll be a a long discussion I think that we've talked about how this is really on a on a big level kind of a change for state in a policy perspective but I think it's a good step in that we have this sort of real time data we have this sort of perspective we have the sort of approach to looking at the data and trying to get down to that bottom line. I know that doesn't answer your question but just to put it in the context of of where we're at now and I think we're we're going to I think that were were moving in the direction you'd like us to move. Thank you a manager. Representative Beck you're recognized for a question. Thank you of and this is maybe not so much of a question is a suggestion I think I appreciate you coming here I think you've heard enough of what we're looking about with savings and all that good great comments and I I concur with a most of them but I would encourage you to do this within your departments all right A you should present to savings as a percent of their total budgets because that that you know this is obviously some these apartment of a much smaller budget overall budget and other budgets then the other department so if you present as a percentage of the overall budget it gives more will for the agencies not I said department amend agencies for the agencies to to and the challenge for them to to do that it also makes it clear and the the only other comment I was it was was I think these reflected on your on your dashboard and I think you've heard enough about what we consider real savings I was going to tell you that you have to taxpayers paying less dollars for the service that that's what we should do the other thing is I like the reinvestment **** aspect that you said into it but I think you need to do you can't just say that the to reinvestment you have to quantify it's it's quantified in that the people were able to get the the the I think you mentioned of the motor vehicle thank you for some or that they're able to get our tax quicker there some kind of reduction you just can't say reinvested in an arc because that's on the side how did how did the taxpayer benefits so we do have an we do have a number on the reinvested savings that the eighteen million seven hundred and seventy eight thousand one hundred ninety four dollars that has the eight through those examples and the ones we have that we didn't include the but they they reinvested the what we get for that reinvestment is my point what a taxpayer get for that reinvestment. We have to look at the entire database of the fifty four examples from the department. Appreciate thank you very much. Maybe you could send those fifty four examples to to the committee and all that out the represented back I think that would get you the information you're asking for. So with that Absent of rock figure it seat twenty six. Thank you Mr chairman aiming toward the back into this handout right here. It mentions fifty seven million six hundred twenty six. Zero ninety eight but then when you look at about the fourth page in the yes it mentions budget reduction. And is ten million dollars and reduction. But evidently. There's about forty seven million dollars in between. In the budget reduction and the amount of total savings. Can you just give everyone a little recap of what forty seven million dollars would bury sure so that that is all five of the categories that we discussed in there was a number listed with everyone of those and so the fifteen fifty seven million is the The facilities of one point four million the budget reduction of twenty two million. Personnel cost. the surrendered positions of six point six million the reinvested savings of eighteen point seven million and then the transformation efficiencies at eight point five million is where you get that fifty seven. Million dollar number. Representative Dotson thank you see forty five thank you Mr chair Center furniture on the facilities savings the example you used was the Commerce building the Verizon building the purchase that and said the the new rental amount is two million dollars is that a month thirty year annual saving annual grant. Annual annual okay so I guess what was the rent for all those departments prior we'll have to get you that information by on facilities I just want to say that. Commerce was not my example what what we did was look at all fifteen which it is is that right as the total one point one point four we were not getting the one point four million just from the commerce sprouting but but there is a reduction from the commerce yes Sir total so it was somewhere above two million dollars per month or per year in rent for commerce agencies as a whole. I guess since for use the armors as an example just what the savings is on that portion of it would be would be helpful for this discussion will get you that thank you. If you would all these requests just make sure we send the staff so we all committee members see those answers sure thank you. Represented Hodges you're recognized for a question. Thank you Mr. I know without the beat this the fourth the death but group going back to what I think everybody's alluding to is the fact that you know what would we we need to be looking at real numbers like facilities for instance you we know where the bond issue out. On these buildings in that they're the monthly payment and that there's interest so actually this one point four million dollars in favor that we show is not reflective of the interests and the bond payment this made every year that. We did not include that we just so grant so good okay we get that broken down on the dash board at the. Senator Ingram was alluding to that Also on the the total fifty seven million and savings that's not that the forty million not reflective in that in that dollar amount that forty million dollars that we saved from Adding another shift to. The collection of taxes and all that how we actually collected that forty million or that projected We've collected we already collected that for that that is real money that we've collected. But I would like to see if. If we could get a copy of the break down of the the the annual payments on that bond and the interest paid us for can truly be reflected in that one point four million dollars that we stand with that we save. I think would be helpful. Sure. Thank you. Absent how did you were done right. You alright members I've made it through everybody first questions so we'll go to represent of all. Recognized for your second question. I'm sorry Senator hammer. These numbers confuse me I don't have names on this board. Thank you thank you Mr chair the up on the building is a building full out there now or do you have more space to rent or we at capacity. We still have space DWS is going to move over the pandemic hitting is slow that progress somewhat but that we do have space for them to come over into the building. Okay and is there a building owned in in the clear. The building they're moving out of. Yes it's number two capital mall. And so they're going to begin to be charged a rant moving out of the building that they don't owe anything on now. They were paying rent where they what they were paying rent and number two capital mall okay even when we own a building any state entity within it is still paying rent when we own it free and clear and have no debt on it. So did the. In that case on that statement did the rate go up to the agencies when they moved up to the new building. In most cases it with the decrease would have to get you the numbers on ease H. exact entity okay I think that maybe which previously your question but if not you would send that and then. I the identify restate the numbers again the two million is for what the two million dollar that would that was thrown around while ago what was that for I believe director Laidlaw said that that was two million dollars a year. Projected rant revenue for the building was around two million a year and the the cost of the building is to one point four million. The debt service is one point four million per year yes okay and the difference realized makes its way back to to make it back to the agencies to the building authority that owns the building to the division of building authority shows so the building authority is now making the difference between one point four versus two million that they work before yes and that is used for upkeep and for managing the building. And other state buildings okay when you send those numbers I'd like to also get the numbers for what it cost for upkeep on each one of the buildings that are being moved out of. Or have you identified savings in the area of upkeep on the buildings. Doctor light law would you like to explain more when the money is used for because I don't think I'm doing a very good job. Senator hammer as you know debt service is just only one variable of the cost associated with owning and managing a building so the the difference that we were talking about the rent revenues that we're collecting also has to cover the operating costs for us to have that building open and operating and housing those agencies so there's really not much surplus laugh by the time we pay operating cost for the building and pay the debt service so there's not much of a surplus left there it goes into the add to the rent revenue fund that DB A. uses to manage all of our facilities so I can get you those exact numbers I think we had provided a spreadsheet that provided that information previously but will go back and make sure that we identify that specifically for you okay and what your intent to do with the buildings are being vacated by the agency's being moved out to the commerce building well the nine hundred west capitol building was the one that was the the greatest impact we have refill that building with other state offices department of labor licensing took the majority of that space we made them out of private sector space into the state owned building. So that building has been completely re field once again collecting for grants for that building I think the one state building that we have that still I'm looking at a less occupancy is our main street mall building downtown so we a re looking at the long term of whether that is a facility that the state will continue to to own but for the most part we've been able to work with our existing inventory and a lot of those changes for commerce several those changes for commerce moving out to the new commerce building came from private sector space okay and the indebtedness to by the commerce building which through bond issues that correct yes Sir okay or the only other question gonna be back to you and me is the savings that's being touted in the report of including the forty million was actually something that was already in motion before transformation correct. If you're talking about before at nine ten in July one of twenty nineteen yes Governor Hutchinson's feels that he has been doing transformation since the began in office and that was part. Excuse me of the early transformation stages it was one of the initiatives identified and the efficiency report that that DF and I've worked on so we consider it part of transformation but if you're asking if it was prior to act nineteen and that that's correct it was it was prior to that cation one go back to represent of Beck's comment while go about putting percentages up on there is a rational thought to think that for all the savings that are identified when we go through the budgeting process it. That we should be able to deduct from each one of the agencies are showing percentage that amount from the request for the budget because if the money is just being regenerated in to do other things how do we know is legislators what those other things are before were involved in the conversation through the budgeting process. I would be happy for. Mr blade to come up and address that if you know as I was saying earlier to if if you think that if you if you feel that the only savings is the budget numbers going down year to year with with cost of living and we performance raises for employees I believe it's going to be very difficult. And I would agree with what Amy said it when we have to take all this in context with everything else is going on and that's the big challenge it's it's one of the areas where I think our budget manuals don't do a very good job. when we when we look at things lake the power points up here it's hard to put all that in context where you might save money like some of the things identified here in the report but all of a sudden for example the employee benefits. Increase that increase has to be paid for and that that that amount of money might end up not trickling down the savings might not end up trickling down to the bottom line it might be shifted elsewhere so I think it's a very valid point to raise and I think it's a good comment to make and I think it's a good reminder for us that when we come before you all to talk about savings we need to be mindful that at some point that has to show up in the bottom line. I thank the chair. Absent a vote. Thank you just a so I'm going to go back to the personnel page. And and it says that there were no jobs lost as a result of transformation but you've decreased field positions about fourteen hundred is this through attrition and do you plan on and filling those positions again as it jobs that were on the books for awhile that we really didn't need and now they're no longer needed. That would be through attrition Representative Vaught note no jobs were lost because of transformation and I couldn't speak specifically to all of those that's just the total that we pulled on November fourth so if you look at July one twenty nineteen until November fourth of use this year that is the difference and and it will always fluctuate some of those positions will be field they'll be other positions that won't be field I believe that's what the secretaries are tasked we and and what we've been doing for a year and a half is digging into is every position needed and a lot of cases the answer is no at some point when we have people leave we're able to not feel that and to be able to utilize other resources to to get the same level out of of what's there follow up Mr chair please. You're recognized of those that are I know like if you turn one more page over it's the surrendered positions it's a hundred and sixty six surrendered positions how many the job I ask for in those exact groups the number of employees to be funded for Darren our budget hearings so do you like go a hundred sixty six but that we at a hundred and seventy five. So these couple things the surrendered positions were not reflected in the budget that you all have reviewed and also earlier the question was how many positions have been asked for when those were surrendered and Director born he'll it will is getting that information for us but but we don't have that today and that you don't know when that you were going to be before us I think it's something that you should have had in your pocket to give us the answers to knowing that these would be questions that would be asked so I'm sad that you didn't take that into consideration before come in today thank you Mr chair. By Representative Cavenaugh you're recognized thank you Mr chair US secretary Fisher I want to talk about the surrendered position to make sure I guess I understand these one sixty six that are surrendered where they unfilled positions at some of them probably wire but not all of them and I do not have that information as well okay on the ones that were on field that you surrendered was there in the actual budget in the salary expense on them. So what I'm trying to get is you came up with six point six million dollars as a savings but if they were on field and we weren't paying a salary to anybody what relates help what is the six point six million savings. That would be the salaries for the exact one hundred and sixty six positions but we can get you that the number of those if there were any that were on budgeted we can get you those and get you what that salary would course because if they were on field we didn't spend the money so it's not really a net savings to us that's what I'm trying to find out thank you. Thank you Mr chair. Absent a wooden you're recognized. Thank you Mr chairman I will pursue Jake want you to come back up if you would do Mr chairman five minutes in it is. Okay this is this the other one sixty six images that does that include the sixty six that have been given up during our hearings one agency gave a sixteen and I thank energy environment was one of them okay remember the other one gave it says they give up fifty positions the call from one of those agencies yesterday because it was kind of a it was kind of confusing that they were not going to do that but he wanted to make sure knew that they were going to give up on me physically give up those are low sixty six positions included in this yes they are so in other words the the you're you you have a hundred and we fails sixty six or secured okay these include all of the ones over the last two years that have gone to personnel and and they said they will surrender them and then we can't do it until the sessions so yes it would include the sixty six that were reported here by certain departments as well as the ones that it happened in personnel Jake was unknown we've maybe or have secured or gained or been paid forty million in back taxes do you to go to questions on that do you know the exact amount that was owed verses the exact amount that we might have so for. I I do not have that information but we can certainly get with transformation church services and figure out what that that how all that works together with with our revenue department I think that would I think that would be very enlightening to this group to know the amount of money that was owed but the amount of money it was settled for because it is been my experience this someone Milo one hundred twenty five thousand we might let him off the hook for forty thousand and my first question is what about the gun the loan the twentieth of the month every month in his business operations he submitted is payment he did exactly what we were supposed to he or she did exactly what they were supposed to do weather is the mom and pop store or whether it's the major retailers like Walmart and then we turn around and we let some guy scanned role who didn't pay is tax off the hook for forty or fifty years sixty thousand dollars and and that's a question that the folks in the revenue department ask themselves constantly and it's one of the reasons that they're motivated to do what they do which can be very difficult you can imagine they get in a lot of awkward and difficult situations but I work over in revenue and I've been there were when the guy who sells fruit on a street corner comes in to pay his sales taxes I've been there when the the folks who work hard who follow the rules coming to pay their taxes and then going to a tax hearing for somebody who is worth a heck of a lot of money and want to believe that they live in the Bahamas. So it's a constant problem that we've got it's a challenge but it is something that we're very very mindful of on the subject of the the How much they versus how much they pay one of the issues that we've been wrestling with it is and and the the amount of money that we were identified as uncollected taxes. Our way of of of collecting taxes involves estimated assessments where if we think that you should be paying taxes but you are not been we send you a letter and say Hey look we think that you owe money please come in and let's talk about it let's get reconciled but that's our or our assumption we really need the taxpayer to come and explain to us what's going on. If you have an individual who's moved out of state and we didn't know about if you have an individual who passed away and we didn't know about it if we have there's all sorts of circumstances where we might think that somebody is not paying their taxes when in fact there's no reason for them to have paid we just need to get the information there so what at times is a very good reason for us to be frankly wrong on our estimated assessment and what we think people low is not in the what they'll. But we can absolutely get that information for you most of the time you'll have past history relative to have the did pay and then they just stop by and correct yes the minister putting that money in the upon you know it was the it was a huge deal for my cash flow in my business to only have to put a health money for so in some cases for fifty days but collected on the first of the month and sales tax no then paid to the twentieth of the next month it was a huge cash flow correct but but still I knew I had to pay it and I paid correct and we use that history to make those you have somebody has filed year in year out and then stops and we have no reason to think that the you know we'll we'll reach out to them and say look we based on your past history here's your estimated assessment but if that individual has moved out of state if they don't have any income they can report in Arkansas they just haven't filled out the little form to tell us Hey by the way I don't know you any money that in fact that estimated assessment is wrong so it's really just a matter of weeding out the the the the actual liabilities from the incorrect assessments I understand okay just quickly tell me how much is owed and total today do you know act I do not know in revenue and tax it last last session you told us about three hundred and thirty five million correct if you add up all those estimated sustenance and and and you can't tell how much of that is real income that this needs to be assessed verses estimated if you add all that up it's about that much it's a lot of money okay the next question you did you make the statement that the budget manuals perhaps were not what they need to be or didn't present a an exact representation of where we are we're we're looking at them. Well what I was trying to say is that what we are with this whole conversation that we're having and we've been having is really around savings making government more efficient finding a way to reduce the footprint that's not really what our budget manuals are built to do what our budget manuals are built to do is avoid deficit spending and and allocate appropriation across state operations so wall he gives us very good information on the information we need as far as budget's appropriation act six at art center it's hard to get a handle on the full picture and how it translates to the bottom line that's the point I was trying to do to the animal put Jones spot here but don't you feel that zero based budgeting at least once over three years or want to ever five years would greatly enhance the budgetary review by the agency's forcing them to go back to zero and bill their budget back and looking at Amy the ever present shin. Ever building at all their operations to see if they actually need all that money because you know we've gone. We've gone thirty five years here forty years and we're using the same budget system and it you know is is changed in business you have a whole different way or reviewing your budgets would DO you agree that zero based budgeting would be something that we need to look at all right of where the river the will of zero based budgeting I agree that when we sit down and put together a budget for the agencies we can do a better job of looking at what we would consider their base funding and say will you know what's in that base funding a lot of times when we put the budget together and I know that we do this city if a and I suspect a lot agencies are doing it they take last year's number and they make it issues number well before we do that I think we need to take a closer look at last year's number and say okay what's built in there do we have one time money that needs to be taken out to did they start a capital project twenty years ago get money for it well that capital projects done so can we pull that money back out I definitely if if that I think that's what you mean by zero based budgeting and I think that be very fruitful exercise so that's what I'm Tosh zero but I say go back to the point zero and bill forward and you agree that something needs to be done similar to that I think that more analysis of the agencies cost is always going to be helpful. Thank you Mr chairman appreciate the time thank you. Representative gray you're recognized. Thank you Mr chair I am. I know I feel like I'm kind of coming across here is being in. Antagonistic or difficult but as I look at this and I see fifty seven million in savings as a legislator what I'm looking today was affect policy moving forward and so I see this and what I think is great now I can vote on a tax reduction next year right but what I'm hearing is that this isn't real savings so as a policy maker I need you to give me the information that I need to make a decision for the people of Arkansas so hope you take this the right way so what I'm saying is we almost need two types of reports from you we need one on budget savings and what actual cash savings and I want net not gross right so this dashboard is great moving forward so I can see where department of commerce the is but this doesn't net me anything right this doesn't actually show me to re savings it does show the expenditures from July one of nineteen until now but and then two in that will continue your correct right so it will continue but it could you come back to us with the this is our budget savings because like the infield positions when you show those in savings those are actual cash savings when I'm looking to reduce the tax for the people of Arkansas right. We have worked on it I don't know how to get you those exact numbers because what departments are doing if they have savings is they're spending it on further initiatives that they're doing more four point they are budgeted for the budget it's budgets that you all of appropriated forum they're staying within those and they're trying to do more and find efficiencies but to say that we have saved X. amount of dollars in cash three transformation I do not know how to get you that information okay I don't know because they're spending the money so there there's not a reduction is as. Mr blade was saying. And represent a wooden pointed out. We start with the flat budget which means we carry over the same numbers so I I do not know how to get you that information we've tried to pull as much as we can and tell you where they're spending the money but if you can tell me how to do it I'm happy to do it okay no I've I mean that and I know it's a difficult job that you have but it's very frustrating when you're sitting up there telling us they are the savings and I'm a policy maker but I can't do anything with this so what good was it if truly all we did was save money and reallocated to the same people to spend in a different manner then I have a fission C. I don't have savings. Big big difference as a policy maker I. The let's amity can't provide me with those two reports to me this is useless. Thank you thank a if you're just looking at dollars and sense your your you would be correct but we're looking at more than dollars and cents and transformation as we said in the presentation okay and I and I voted for its on for multiple reasons for efficiency but also for savings and what you're here today for is to go over the savings pieces which is what we asked for. Which is what I'm trying today I'm just struggling to see any real savings are thank you. Representative Davis you're recognized for a question thank you Mr chairman we're kind of touch on something that I think can back and I think represent Dotson your name may you know I may have talked about this in years past but. Now remember me in a new member joint budget and looking at the budget manuals and what we get what review particularly in session we're always frustrated because you don't see that actual cash spend. That most of us would look at at home in our business and when we're budgeting for the next year we can see what they've asked for the previous year but you can always see actual cash spent and. And Mr blade I think you're touching on that minute thank you we're kind of talking in the same circles and I see that both sides are saying here meaning. To the legislators like represent gray said. If we're not talking about actual reduced cash spend that then it's hard for us to consider that is savings but if you're surrendering positions then you would you should be anyway asking for less budget in the future the next go around. So if I have to ask a question that should be Mr believed in whether or not can we. Somehow the legislative branch of the executive branch get together on this data that we get to review and we're doing budgeted budget so that we actually see. And so that we see an actual spend rather than just requested appropriation amounts. Sure I mean we can we can present information to the the committee the legislature or whatever we're doing budgets any kind of information that you all need to put this together we can we can we can help you out however you know what we're the challenges you're projecting out in the future and so you have to project what you're gonna spend eight months or twelve months from now based on what you spent twelve months ago and obviously those things can be different but we can we can provide you that information another option to think about also is that within the ale see alignment we've got some mechanism to provide additional procreation additional funding so you know if if the budget is is to lower too high or too low excuse me there's an opportunity at least for agencies to get relief through LC okay I just think that's something I mean I'm not gonna be here obviously you're all welcome but as something that I think maybe we should focus on a little more. And I've asked budget years the past if we can get a little more data in the summer is that we get during session because there's not actual spend number on there there's previous appropriation amounts and there's previous positions allocated but there's nothing on actual spend in there when we've got to make these kind of quick reviews in session so anyway I I think a lot of the frustration here's semantics if you will because sometimes we're talking about savings from a budget number I thank represent Vaught represent Cavenaugh the grayer talking about savings from actual cash spend two different things and then and you know we throw around transformation a lot I think to the legislators when we say transformation we're talking specifically about ACT nine ten. But we're center venture you know lady to earlier the governor thinks he's been doing you know he considers that he's been doing transformation since two thousand sixteen so things like collecting outstanding tax revenue to me that was the suggestion from a report that came from price Waterhouse coopers and so the executive branch when they say transformation sometimes it means any compasses more than what we think when we say transformation so that's kind of a rant Mr chairman I apologize for that but at at since I'm not gonna be in committee next year I want to take a chance to ask Mister billion and whoever the next budget chairs are to try to get more information on that actual spend available for members to review and and that's a great suggestion and maybe one of the things we can do is look at using the dashboard here to provide different spending did in in you know I don't know how we're going to set it up but it it seems like it should be if we can get a dashboard application and we can get the date a live. Perhaps we can in the midst of debate have an analysis done or something to that effect so if you want to see that background information that also is and I think a book and some other areas in the in the actual expenditures but I think the dashboard might be a step in that direction yeah I agree with you and I I think you do it you know just with a focus on communication one members look at the dashboard are we looking at actual cash spend a real looking at the numbers right now appropriation the numbers are that they're they're now represent Davis our general revenue we haven't loaded all of the categories but we will so right now we have general revenue so the department of commerce since July one of nineteen is down thirteen point four six percent of their spend in general revenue to today but what members in the future gonna want to know is that are we down thirteen percent from our budget number or we down thirteen percent from a year previous spent okay so it if it's thirteen percent down from a budget and number that that the actual spend okay they're not going to consider that savings to represent gracepoint if it's thirteen percent down from previous actual spend then I feel like they have room to. Make policy adjustments to make sense yes Sir are great. Thank you Mr. Absent Kevin all you're recognized. Thank you Mr chair. Secretary like to ask you one thing when you're presenting this to ask if you will be sure to include all departments because when we look at your performance related there's only twelve departments listed for savings it would be a great idea at. To put all fourteen so we will would now whether or not they had a savings are they had actually if did not have a savings so would be in that so if you could list all the departments that would really help us understand because the and when they're not listed we're automatically going to think that in have a savings and so they didn't they didn't have they were not able to fund their races through their department and had to utilize the DF name performance fund was whether or not listed so it would the number of the the rest so that we can list that that way that Laos is to be able to look at and say okay they didn't do that and I would do that for any category that you're going to try to show a savings on because we're going to come back and ask you that question okay okay thank you. Absent a vote you're recognized thank you Mr chair I think these are questions will probably be for Mister believe more than the secretary herself and whenever I look at the fifty seven million on the very back page Mr Jake. Whenever I thought about our budget hearings I don't remember us lowering anybody's budgets. So are we gonna base I mean are we really gonna see this savings essentially. Or are we just adding to people's budgets. Less. I think it's gonna be a combination so there's some places where you know the revenue stabilization act we talked about reducing the amount that was provided the agencies there's some areas where if you look there's some movement of money where an agency for example Arkansas crime information system. They actually agreed to a budget cut so that that money could be shifted over to the Arkansas crime lab where because of the little lab and some of the other things going on they need the additional funding but I think you'd be a combination of those things okay and and. I totally agree with Representative gray A may not voted for transformation I had my worries about it if it was really going to save us money. Or if it was gonna be a shifting of things instead of a true savings and if there's any way that we could see lack the act because to me this is useless I mean I appreciate you put it together. But to me it's completely useless whenever it comes to policy and what we're actually saving because I I can't trust that number on the back. And then I have one other question Mr chair on the other initiatives were it says repair for taxes. And it says it's an estimated savings of forty million dollars how did we derive that I mean is this not monies that we should have already collected or how did we come up with this. Figure. It is the number that was reported to us by the department of revenue of what they've collected since twenty sixteen but is it money that they should have already collected he kind of recovered taxes yes would be taxes that should have been paid previously so essentially this is not a savings stand because it was money that should have already been collected in my correct. Yes thank you thank you Mr chair. Thank you Senator hammer you're recognized. Thank you Mr chair and picking up on that on that question when you identified areas as you've done your valuations of the agencies and say for example you came into an agency that had a piece of equipment for up something that should have been being done already. And then as a result of whatever motivation was put on them to get done what should have been being done already. Do you consider that to be savings. Given the fact that they were doing something they should have already been doing. Senator hammer I believe changing the culture of state government and the way things are done it's a very difficult process and takes more than a year or a year and a half I agree with you that a lot of things should have been being done that we're not done and we're we're just trying to change that culture now. And as we move forward. Because I think that's a critical piece of the argument one we identified savings is if an agency or director especially if they had the funds to do it and they just didn't do it but now they were made to do it. While that may. Help change the culture I would one be careful about capturing that in presenting it to us as savings because that was something that should have been being done all along savings in my opinion is about changing the policies that creates the on going and I would just throw that into the consideration. Thank you Mr. Members I have three more people in the queue and we have quite a few other agencies so be mindful of our times Senator Chesterfield you're recognized yes I have a point of information as chair how are we want to proceed from here of we're dealing with deferred A actions. As it relates to these various entities are we then going to move to review these are our have they already been reviewed and I missed it what what is the plan of action going for actually a very good question I'm glad you brought it up I was going to go through this at the end of the question there's eight ages eight different appropriations Ford this agency that needed a motion of executive Rick are not and that motion will be taken up at the end of the questioning just like we do every agency throughout budget hearings and it will move forward if no one makes a motion these preparations will have to go through members on through budget only gets a session I don't think we really need any agencies having to go through member on but if we do that's what will be at the end of today right does that help that does and that is how we will proceed with the other deferred funds as well yes ma'am alright thank you so much Mister yes ma'am. Representative in all you're recognized and like I said I have one more member in the queue before we moved to a motion. Thank you Mr chair this was on your number five transformation efficiencies because like you I believe that if we're gonna do centralized transformation efficiencies as one and that one of the things all and the examples that you go visitors forty seven examples of the efficiencies that were created because of this transformation which is what I like to see because I want us to do more with less so. Of this eight point five million. Of those forty seven examples they weren't included in the other your four categories these are additional savings that could be the actual not really savings but a trance they're actually efficiencies but they weren't part of your other categories that's correct okay thank you. And represent would near our last one. Thank you Mr chairman not. I will like to statements about all this. In reality the fifteen secretaries. And their staffs. Should review. The first eight months of the chair and get an average expenditure per agency in their current. And the last four months of the year they need to watch those average expenditures this one the the. And if I call an agency above and beyond what their average admin for eight months at tell me there's trying to spend their budget before it got to the year in okay. The harsh reality. four we are and you hear the name is the culture has got to change within state government and the only way to do that unfortunately is take away the money. The quicker you were the the the lesser amount of money you give them the less amount of money they won't have to spend out there and taxpayers are getting tired. Of hearing about what we're gonna save what we're doing to save it and I'm not seeing anything like my colleagues are pouring out relative to the budget and and I understand what you're saying about fifty seven million but you hit the you you you called it like it is when you said they take that money and use it somewhere else is that somewhere else better than where they had. And do they really need to expand that expenditures so this is a cultural thing that we have built in to. Is that or is that right. I'll be in order to deal with that we'll have to we'll have to with the agency secretaries will have to watch more closely and we're gonna have to look at taking tax breaks given the money back to the people let them put it in the economy. In the cycle starts over with his long as we continue to take money out. Then they will create this situation. I would agree with you I believe that it has historically been the culture to do it that way and that that's part of what transformation is about is trying to change that in and as we go forward I think we will see even more. Thank you Mr chairman thank you madam secretary. Senator Chesterfield I move review. see you move of executive wrecked I'm the executive recognize a proper motion to have second. Second all those in favor say aye. All opposed ayes have it with that thank you we'll move on to the sector state and members all members that holds on sector state have been removed so do I have a motion for agency request move I have a motion second. Donna with that all those in favor say aye. All opposed eyes have it so with that we'll move on to the department of ag and I think there's a handout. It. Yes and if we could get somebody from the department of agriculture department operations in plant board and pest control is first on the agenda. Senator Chester yes I the holes on any of the others. Ma'am are there holes on on a on natural resources or department of transportation and they've been removed. We they have the departments have handouts for all of which is the information requested throughout the committees okay and so we'll have them present and we'll take motions all right I appreciate thank. So do we have someone from the ag department ready. Secretary Wes. You guys would introduce yourself for the record and you're recognized explain your hand up. Thank you Sir west ward Arkansas part of our culture. In his thirty two fiscal officer. Go ahead Mr thank you Mr chairman so we are on item C. three department of agriculture to appropriations that were presented to the full committee were deferred if you wanted to look at those appropriations there in and your budget manuals on tap for pages one fifty eight and one seventy three and the agriculture department has given this a hand out to address questions on those and is here to explain that. So I think I was one ones at that had a lot of questions on the shared services portion and where that was pulled out of general revenue and and. So you had a hard time explaining that last two weeks ago so Kate can you elaborate on that a notice here you've got generate a new certified to fund AG services highlighted over to the right at the handout for FY twenty one. My question that day was when you pulled out the share services portion. Did did you take that off of your operations because you're pulling those people from there and you had a hard time showing us where that was coming from. Yes the positions were move added that two zero are the operations. And transferred to the should services there was no decline in that. Operation I think that's what we kinda said there is whole meeting today is what we want to see is not the culture of moving that was lines forward every year but the actual decline when we're. Pulling that. I see secretary nine as head so you you're agree on what items. I I it I do agree yes Sir and and just phone conversation previously with with sectors venture you know I think that's kind of work from a part of our culture standpoint that's really kind of where we fall a lot of that discussion is taking place I'm and we put together some information that we shared with the with certified from apartment transmission shared services you overall from the department of agriculture standpoint historically it but Mrs part to the transmission efficiencies that a lot of board cost savings were realize prior to two thousand nineteen we had million dollars injure revenue savings we cut nineteen positions we we did a lot of there's things prior to transmission and no that act nineteen and taken effect July first of last year so what what we're showing now and what we we've sure we're permit department transmission shared services is is that we're doing more with the same amount of funding so do your your point Mister chairman that's that's exactly right we're we're not showing a reduction of that dollar amount that's going to the shared services fund it's it's the same amount were we're doing more with that money but there's not a reduction there's not a cut to that bottom line number can you give me an example what more is there what are we doing today that we couldn't do three years ago. As far as what we're doing with them that funding so it's it's several things so that's a no we your and part of that is is legislatively required but some of it's not so meticulous you know we're we're working with game and fish on chronic wasting disease testing you know we're we on feral hogs one thing that was a that was added in the last session was aerial eradication permits and so what we're doing that without any additional cost for mediation program part of that's covered to a US to grant the rest of it we cover ourselves form to school coordinator we're we're covering Matt within an existing with existing salaries that exist or not no addition we're not asking for additional money but we're covering mission missional duties and responsibilities. And I have a list that I'd be happy to to share as well I think that's what the members or want to hear Senator hammer you're recognized. I thank thank you Mr chair thank you let me ask you about one issue I got a little background on on the aerial hog hunting that you're talking about do the fees that you collect offset the cost to administer that or are you having to make anything additional up out of your budget. So there is there is currently no fee for the service permits that were that were insuring so that was that was passed in the two thousand nineteen session we we've got our livestock and poultry director here so it gave that responsibility to them there's no fee a lot of man hours went into that's where we're doing that out of our own time and salary cost so there's there's no there's no fee on our permit conocer las is costing the Mets transferring over to additional peril hog control funding federal funding you received in covering the cost of that it's completely separate disarm so all right so that but USDA the first one pilot program completely separate from the already cation permitting so then we need to come back and talk about initiating fees to offset the cost of that program but potentially so that is something that that we we have been discussion the discussion with the for all task force and we've got several affirmative USDA are for all coordinator at Sears well but that that is a topic that that is being looked at but the problem the problem with that permit fee is that no if you charged even even of a higher dollar amount one you would you would have a lot of people that want to use it permit that would be very upset about having to pay a fee to do it but to know if if that program collected twenty thousand dollars a year for those permits what what does that really get you from feral hog eradication standpoint every little bit helps of course but but bottom line is it's something that we're looking at do you track policies that we as legislators pass that. Drive up the cost of your agencies expenses. Are we are we do a report at the end of every legislative session on and bills that will impact the department in our operations and that that's part of what we that's part of what we've covered in this in this report that we put together it's about three pages that covers all the different things that were that we're doing either you it that's either partly funded through a grant or that recover from our own expense but if it is something we absolutely we keep track of and watch for heard closely charred like get a copy of I'd like you I don't know what you're looking at when I'm looking it doesn't have would you have a senator of is because it was the next item on the agenda but we're gonna go ahead and hand you the handout okay the feral hogs and when we take the motion for C. three will take it for C. four as well okay A I just finish up by saying this I'd like to see your list of legislation that is passed that. You feel has affected your budget as far as Dr ended up because maybe that's what we need to look in on our side is big and I know there's a fiscal analysis is done with the speech legislation but you know on our side for a talk efficiency to we got a look at some of the policies we do maybe that add to the problem yes Sir and and just just to clarify the the report we put together at the end of and of the session legislative session is unnecessarily here's everything that's going impact but it's it's all inclusive so it it may be here's here's a personnel requirements changer here your here's a different policy required from the legislature so it's it's comprehensive but we could break that down to to purely budget budgetary items I'd like to thank you Mr. Absent a wooden you're recognized for a question and. My question deals with the feral hog we've been talking about. The the swine brucellosis. Them mutate from cattle to swine or for swine to cattle or is it just the the swine brucellosis of livestock and poultry director mac and address that. Yes Sir the to me that's one of the most severe economic impacts of. Of of the. I believe it was a million dollars a year believe that it's costing Agriculture yes Sir because of the federal all right the brucellosis part of it spreads throughout the cattle Mister director can you answer them. Yes Sir Patrick fist rector last or poetry not an expert in I'd like to have a we serve this thing that Noone was here but those are two separate issues the brucellosis they would that you referred to a couple weeks ago is in our brucellosis we have a fund that is paying for livestock inspectors brucellosis mail is in Arkansas is actually a free state of resources for state. So we have programs in place to maintain that swine brucellosis we have rules and regulations in place for that to monitor we have different programs like to ask her program that monitors in and records of folks that are testing for brucellosis so right now currently we're free state. So. Okay. That impose my colleagues who well it's also transferred to humans the guns on favors that correct yes brucellosis is a lot of what we consider is not a disease so can be transferred from one from animal to you to him okay and that's the biggest concern wealth so anyway goes with others. And I'm glad we're free study and I've known that for some time but it's a serious economic impact relative to the cattle industry if it's not controlled if we don't stay on top of it. So the. Feral hog issue is is is that brucellosis part of it being address by the task force and apparently it is what you. Yes Sir as part of the ask for program that's reason why we we mark to these herbs is because of the threat with that for all exposed to our four H. and FFA so so area soon in these last talk shows to any exposure to feral hogs poses a huge threat to two social animals so that's why those programs existed so that we can monitor those seven for all dispose of used huge threat to the. Thank you Mr chairman thank you. Thank you senator Chesterfield MO review us they could agency Rick executive wreck for those for okay appropriations right all right that is correct I need a second. I have a second all those in favor say aye. All opposed us have it and so with that thank you guys will move on to the department of transportation. Yes and I'm all recognize staff to give us a summary of them thank you Mr chairman we are on item C. five department of transportation. This item was held for additional information there is a hand out that is already on your desk titled Arkansas department of transportation budget details we stay commitment items. And the agency is here to explain. Sure if you guys would introduce yourself for the record and and you guys are recognized explain. Thank you Mr chairman good morning committee my name is Randy Orton deputy director chief operating officer for the department of transportation. Good morning I'm Patrick patent on the CFO for or not. First time we presented our budget there were some questions about some of the funds that we administer The question was why we couldn't break down some of the funds in greater detail that we did many of them were single line item funds yes okay so with that I will recognize the member to have those questions okay Representative Cavenaugh you're recognized. Thank you Mr chair I want to thank you all for giving me this information makes it a lot easier to go back to her a book and be able to see a history so I appreciate you being able to put this together for me and really says I have the information I've been able to look over it I'm okay with that so I'll do a motion at the proper time Mr chair. To be a motion for agency recommendation of feel like we're at the proper time I have no other members yes for agency recommendation incorporating the handout. I got members now okay. Senator rice you're recognized. Mine was a a. Question of holy merger anything I. Directed to director tutor during budget hearings about. Seeing an internal budget for highway police. And she said she had that in with up office bringing that back today can you point out to me in any of our. Handouts today is or something in here that I have found that is not in this information center and I apologize okay we're if we will get that though that's not a problem I would like to the what I had asked for thank with something in the. Neighborhood of three to five years of. Last budget I don't want to be an actor burden for volume but if that something that some kind of comparison I'd like to see for state about were read about this had concerned with some other states and come see where we were it thank you thank you Mr. If you would if you get that the staff and that of the sent out to all the committee members yes Sir thank you. Representative Allen all come back to you for your motion. Thank you Mr chair I'd like to make a motion for agency recommendation with incorporating the handout. I have a second. I have a second all those in favor say aye. All opposed ayes have it the Senate passes thank you guys so with that budget hearings for twenty twenty done thank you. It. A.