Judiciary Committee- House

That's Representative Ladyman I. Don't believe I've seen him community up with that let's move to Senate bill one seventy three Senate bills one seventy three and represent recognize Representative Maddox. To present Senate bill one seventy three. Represent medic you're recognized to present the bill thank you sorry for that delay I just got over I got caught up so thank you for allowing me to present this is a very simple bill I'm truly doesn't do too much I will try and explain and if there's any questions that someone here to assist so senator rice ran this bill on the Senate side and I do want to point out he received a unanimous vote in both the house it to me about the committee and on the Senate floor so keep that in mind this bill merely a man's Arkansas code annotated five sixty five one oh three it adds food processing and manufacturing facilities and correctional and detention facilities to the critical infrastructure as it relates to the unauthorized use of unmanned aircraft which is drones so all it does is I'm trying to limit the use of drones over correctional facilities detention facilities and food processing manufacturing facilities so just add those to the existing statute. I with these are already considered critical infrastructure under federal law so that's all I have. Members are there any questions for represented medics. I see no questions represent Maddox you're recognized close for your bill. I am because my bill and I appreciate a good vote. Members with wishes of the committee. We have a motion to do pass is there any discussion on the motion. All in favor of the motion please say a. Any opposing the motion carries congratulations you've passed your bill thank you bye. Represented Johnson. Represented Johnson there you're fine. Members were turning to House Bill thirteen seventeen there is an amendment on the bill to be passed out to you so we're going to give that a second for that to be done also represented Johnson will need you to sign these amendments for madam chair if I may add like to ask dancy with prosecutors are to satiated to join me here at the table yes Mister Xu you're recognized to be at the table. Members there is also a financial impact statement. On this bill so if you have a moment let's take a look at that. Represent represent Johnson you're recognized to present your amendment a yes matter to this just an amendment adding a few co sponsors. A good vote on that amendment. Members of a motion to adopt the amendment. We have a motion to adopt the amendment any discussion all in favor please say aye. Any opposed the amendment has been adopted and you may move to your bill as amended thank you madam chair colleagues I think all of us to this point of order something online and had it delivered to our house this is a the delivery service's Connie is growing over the past years in the pandemic I think it's accelerated that growth unfortunately with that growth has come an increased opportunity for those folks that wish to to come and try to steal that property from your home as it stands right now at the after that contemplates is a misdemeanor this is a bill designed to deter that kind of behavior that would increase that penalty to a Class D. felony after with me today Daniel sees the chairperson chairman of the Arkansas association of prosecuting attorneys he's the one that brought this bill to my attention and pleased as the committee and the chair I'd like for him to say a few words about the bill. Mr sure you're recognized please identify yourself for the record and then you may proceed. I take this masco. Yes right from the thank you madam chairman and thank you Representative Johnson my name's Daniel hsu I'm the elected prosecuting attorney for Sebastian County the twelfth judicial district and I'm also the chairperson for the Arkansas prosecuting attorneys association you may see a about a half a dozen bills that are sponsored by our association and the. I have the a little bit of a spiel here but I will also be take any questions that you have if you've got questions because cause for concern and that sort of thing obviously is is already stated you probably know somebody or you know somebody who knows somebody who has been taken off the porch and these days it's not just the as my mother would say something were to select for lancer pitcher it's ostomy medical supplies it's syringes FOR diabetics it's medicine it's groceries because of this pandemic we've relied more and more and more on those deliveries their their precious and the lifesaving so the issue is you know what can you do about it the theft of. The what you can do about it is is consider this this bill the terms that have been used in this bill for instance residential occupy the structure is previously defined in Arkansas law in the Arkansas criminal code. Curtilage likewise is from the Arkansas criminal code it's it's an ancient concept dealing with your home and is protected by the Fourth Amendment and discussion last week about the castle doctrine protecting you in your home opening your door to see that something had been taken from your front porch it's disconcerting than others description that specifically listed is postal package clearly the statute doesn't cover garden gnomes is it doesn't cover Christmas decorations it It things that are important to us as our Kansans this is what I would call a a general the Terrence law. We're not looking to have vast prosecutions and in these instances what we're looking for is people just to go Hey that's a poke postal package don't steal it that's I mean it it's that simple and again. It is a principal decision on the part of the Arkansas legislature to consider this and hopefully passes I'll take any questions. Members are there any questions. Represent Clowney you're recognized for a question thank you manager thank you for the presentation I'm looking over the language right now and I appreciate your saying that this is you know targeted toward things that we hold most dear not not say a box of socks that are left on the porch but it is that is going to be sort of a matter of prosecutorial discretion or is there something in the in the statute as drafted now that you think protects against that kind of process you're gonna you're gonna have to rely on prosecutorial discretion if it's a postal package taken from the curtilage you're gonna have to rely on prosecutorial discretion thank you. Members any other questions. Seeing no additional questions Representative Johnson you're recognized close for your bill. Members I would be lying if I said I have enjoyed carrying a bill about pirates and curtilage but at the end of the day these are pirates these are these in whether taking is your property and so I think it's important bill and I appreciate a good vote on this bill thank you. Members represent Johnson his clothes for bill with the wishes for the of the committee. We have a motion to do pass is there any discussion on the motion. All in favor please say aye. Any opposed motion carries congratulations you've passed your bill thank you committee presented. Represented Boyd. Members were turning to House Bill twelve fifty six. Represent Boyd you're recognized to present your bill. Thank members share I will be a brief with opening remarks and then I think there are several people who are here many of whom traveled from out of town that would like to speak on this bill today so this bill house bill twelve fifty six is an amendment to the criminal record sealing active twenty thirteen and is an important bill for multiple reasons but one this bills about economic freedom personal liberty and the ability of people to get back to work we can't keep our you know families together if we don't have jobs or housing in this is one of the ways that we can change structural issues that facilitate our Kansans being able to get back to work and be able to find housing so with that said I want to just quickly go over the the three things that this bill as currently written does number one it removes the prohibit prohibition on selling criminal records prior to twenty thirteen number two it allows criminal record sealing for individuals who spent time in Arkansas department of corrections right now currently if you spent time with Arkansas community corrections your criminal record is eligible to be sealed but not if you've ever spent a saying any amount of time a single day in Arkansas department of corrections three it gives prosecutors forty five days to file notice of of opposition right now there's not a time frame and so basically when there isn't notice given it just stops the the process of so this six this is a remedy for that I just like to add this doesn't do anything to change the the types of records that can be sealed other than the spending time in ATC so what our bill drafter Mr Gasper refers to is is the bad bad so murder rate child molestation those records are not eligible for sealing this in no way changes that. This is focuses on changing the three things that I have laid out here I will say there are some concerns that have been expressed about what kind of workload this might create for the prosecutors and the judicial system I'm looking at those I have some numbers from an administrative officer of the court I'm not quite ready to to present those today but we will discuss that with that said that's really All I Want to say to open and however you want to proceed madam chair. Members are there any questions. Per se Cavenaugh you're recognized for a question. Thank you madam chair represent avoid my question is on this feeling of this so is it going to be sealed where a lack Department of Education or somebody looking in licensure they still they will not be able to see this. Represented Cavenaugh thank you for that question and as a pharmacist by trade and someone who has you know doesn't normally work in the criminal justice system I appreciate that and I should address that on the front end so when your records are sealed in the state of Arkansas the government still has access to be able to see those in many scenarios I don't have a litany of of all the scenarios but for instance if I were applying to become a physician the medical board would have access to that if I had committed a crime the prosecuting attorney would have access to this all those things have already been debated and are laid out in law and none of this this bill does nothing to change who has access to those sealed records or to be able to view sealed records as far as the government today. What manager. You're recognized for a follow up thank you all I and taking it to where thank you if you serve time in the department of corrections that Gee now can have it sealed what is the reasoning behind that. I can't speak to what the the reason was in twenty thirteen when the department of corrections was left out what I can tell you is that you could potentially have done the same crime of with a different jury for we in a different county for whatever reason and wound up and department of corrections rather than going through the community corrections and now you're record is not eligible to be sealed and that just does not make sense to me thank you. Representing the call you're recognized for a question. Thank you madam chair I just wanted to six some clarification on the completion of a person's sentence line twenty eight does that also and does that include jail time and. time. That is my interpretation that that you have to complete your entire sentence so you know again. When we commit a crime we have to pay a debt and that debt has to be paid in and when you've carried out those steps then at some point we need to remove the. Vote of government from people's necks and let them get back to to work thank. Represented Connie you're recognized for a question thank you madam chair Representative Boyd I think you'll you mention this in your opening but I just wanted to circle back to it I'm thinking about the kind of additional workload that this will be for prosecutors and staff I know that in twenty nineteen last session we made some some changes to the criminal record sealing act so I'm just wondering if you're looking at those numbers to try to compare before and after workload for the staff. Thank you Representative County for that that question so I do have some numbers in I will I will point out of potentially amount detriment that remember twenty twenty we we had co within that could have potentially affected record selling just like it affected a lot of other things but if you go back to January twenty nineteen there were a hundred and a hundred ninety request and you compare that to January twenty twenty there were two hundred thirty five request that's roughly twenty three percent increase in in February it was one eighty and twenty nineteen and two fifty so small increase but then when we get to March there were two twenty two and twenty nineteen in two hundred one so there very well I'm coming and then you can go back to twenty thirteen and twenty fourteen when this was done and it almost looks like there were fewer requests in twenty fourteen based on the data I have in front of me so there could be some out of the start you know but I don't perceive that all of a sudden all say four hundred thousand people that are eligible are gonna suddenly request to have their their criminal records sealed thank you. This represents Smith you're recognized for a question thank you madam chair represented Boyd I probably should have asked this question prior to right now I'm right here in front of you but how will your bill impact the reinstatement of voting rights. That's a good question I might need some help I'm not I'm under the impression that you need a pardon not a criminal records failing to do that but it when there's testimony from others behind me maybe they will rectify that if I'm giving you incorrect information. Represent the flowers you're recognized for a question. Thank you My question is about whether about recidivism and I mentioned that this is something that would have a positive. Impact so that people don't go back if they're able to get employment do we have any numbers. To estimate how this would impact that dynamic. Represent of flowers that is a great question data for me is one of the hardest things to come by to to do and this this case I will say in twenty nineteen when I brought another criminal record sealing bill that we had testimony from someone firm that works with restore hope that said Hey this is something that we will use to help give people incentive to do right and get their life back in order so that we can you know get back to a sense of normalcy and again you have to have a job and you have to have housing in order to to get to that normalcy and be able to keep a family together. Thank you Are you wishing for a follow up I was gonna wait thank you so much. Madam chair. Members I see no additional questions of this witness we have at this time. Bob McMahon and Daniel hsu who here for informational purposes if you gentleman would like to come forward. Make sure what you hit your button that you identify yourself for the record before speaking and you are recognized. Okay to do this prevention of public man on the prosecutor coordinator our comments or on behalf of the Arkansas prosecuting attorneys association. Again I'm Daniel shoe the legislative chairman for the Arkansas prosecuting attorneys association. Insert actually some some of our concerns ready pointed out by by repeat Boyd I I'm I'm here today just basically say that we're studying the numbers as well we receive the information earlier in the week at the end of last week we study those numbers and we realize that there are a couple pieces of the puzzle that were missing so I met with the IOC yesterday and they're doing the statistical gathering represented Boyd so we're still trying to figure out exactly what effect this will have on the system and that is one of the concerns the prosecutors have I know that with the not even talking about the backlog that backlog backlog of course existed prior to this so we the the bill a couple years ago was the backlog was a huge issue because it was an automatic if the person is entitled to an automatic expungement but that is not in this particular bill but the back of that issue is still there and as represent Boyd said we really have no way of predicting who might come forward and file that so are concerned knowing that the backlog is there are additional concerns are just trying to determine with the two things that the bill does what that actual effect will be you know with or without the backlog so that the concerns of the prosecutors with regard to the retroactivity and also with the increase or the the making someone eligible with regard to doing time in the Department corrections my initial studies revealed that was about thirty thousand people but it looks like part of like like I said earlier part of the individuals that would be eligible there was a section was left out the drug offenses under the schedule a controlled substance schedule with a and B. felony so those numbers are going to have to be added in and I think that that has been done we just had had a chance to study I think I got this over the noon hour it looks like my my quick reading that may be another thirty thousand people so it looks like we're talking about at least an increase of sixty thousand potential people to the system so that is a concern to the to the prosecutors in terms of how we're gonna be able to possibly handle that now it I guess it depends on the rest of the bill if there's any amendments in terms of whether those hearings are mandatory with the mandatory hearings obviously that's going to cause an issue but. If they're not mandatory was kind of have to see it again the unknown factor being that we just don't know who is going to follow a petition but those are concerns we wanted to you know point out to you to the committee and make everybody aware of that but we are again studying those numbers and we'll continue to work with representable waited to figure out you know what kind of a problem that ultimately will be but right now we're just kind of guessing with what's out there and I'll be happy to try to answer any questions Dan may have some additional comments I don't. Four hours you're recognized for a question. Thank you I just wanted to be clear it sounds like you are working together with Representative Boyd to sort of ensure that there are no unintended consequences and to make sure that. This measure would be implemented in a way that it to make it effective. Is that the case and is there an official position against for or neutral I just wanna be clear represented it this point like I said there are prosecutors that are very concerned about a couple of these things in before they can really weigh on whether we're you know supporting or opposing we can hold off on that too we understand the statistics I mean if I if I had to make a decision right now I'm just I'm not sure where we would go in there are there are specific concerns but in all fairness I want to be able to look at those numbers before we give an official opinion at this point we are as we certainly understand the concept that represent Boyd is trying to do our biggest concern is just is the mechanism of how we get there I think is probably the easiest way to say that so at this point you know I'm not a hundred percent sure you know where we're going to come out on that bill but but I would say definitely we are working with represented board right now trying to make sure we all understand those numbers and that there aren't any index unintended consequences thank you I would like to interject two when when represented Boyd is is one of my representatives came with this bill two years ago we helped him and helped craft the bill that was actually passed. Represent flowers are you asking for a follow up good represented guess where you're recognized for a question. Thank you madam chair and I'll direct this to Mr McMahon. My understanding of the current law the way the record sealing works is that there are petitions they can be found online they're uniformed petitions that people fill out we would like to have the record expunged. And for clarification that just simply means sealed doesn't mean that the conviction goes away or that it as if it never existed. Like that would be similar to a partner just seals it from public view. And if they fill up that petition they have to send it to the prosecuting attorney's associate or not the association is the prosecuting attorney in the jurisdiction where the offense occurred and also the law enforcement agency involved in that offense is that an accurate statement of what the current law is yes represent I think that's accurate realizing offices in normally do those but yes Sir I think you've explained the procedure as I understand it in and I think there's the one edition that was made two years ago was the fee was waived so an individual does not have to pay that what used to be a fifty dollar fee but other than that that the procedure you described is exactly how it's how it's done role of manager you're recognized for follow up and so what I would like and I think you'd be beneficial for this committee not that I didn't hear the presentation someone can very simply explained. What this new law would do that differs from how the current process works in just a few short. Terms I would certainly appreciate that thank you. The Gazaway thank you I'll just briefly go through their three changes this bill does it removes the prohibition on selling criminal records for crimes that happened prior to twenty thirteen there's a specific date which if it goes before that you can't have your records sealed this removes that date up and that there in lies some of the concern on the workload increase okay number two it allows criminal record sealing for individuals who spent time in Arkansas department of corrections run if you spent time in Arkansas community corrections you can have your records still but you could have had the exact same crime everything else but for whatever reason your path took you Arkansas department of corrections your of record is not eligible to be sealed that doesn't seem like equal justice under the line and in my limited understanding number three prosecutors it gives them forty five days the following notice to of business of opposition right now if there is no time limit so if you if they don't file then basically it it stops the process in its tracks in this it's a forty five day deadline which I'm certainly willing to to work on with that that number looks like forty five was just an arbitrary number from my standpoint. Represent guess where you're asking for a follow up. I do have another question but I'm happy to get back in the queue go ahead you answer thank you madam chair so my understanding and may be. Prosecutors you or Mr McMahon can answer this but my understanding is that. If thirty days passes after the filing of the petition has been sent to the prosecutor and a law enforcement agency then the person files a petition can take that to a judge and have it entered is that not accurate on how the current process works in a represent avoids talking about forty five days my understanding was is that is currently thirty days that is correct okay. Represent Scott you're recognized for a question. Okay thank you madam chair I just wanna make sure I heard correctly did you say possibly sixty thousand our Kansans can benefit from this bill. It It yes ma'am is my understanding that this the first draft that I had was around thirty thousand but there was it to specific areas of individuals left out produced two to certain types of offenses again a quick reading looks to me like it added about thirty thousand more so would be sixty thousand people in addition to the backlog that would be eligible now to get an expungement that are not currently eligible so I think it's. You're recognized for follow up thank you so with the prosecutors. With that be a part of if you all are going to be in support of the bill and not be neutral because of the workload is that like a big hang up for you all. As what this might incur like the workload. You will ever the sixty thousand. Or. Yes ma'am that that's part of it it's it's the whole system I mean in terms of how the practice to the criminal justice system is going to resort that many cases with regard to hearings and in this and that but but again keeping in mind those initials at fault issue before they you know they they begin the process so we can assume that all sixty thousand will will go involved additions so I'd that's that's the you know we just don't know but but if if they did along with the backlog then that's a concern I think the prosecutors and judges as to how they would absorb that into the current you know the current climate of the criminal justice system so but that may ultimately be at something we can't determine because we just don't know who's going to you know follow petition but that's a concern when you incorporate those numbers into the already existing system it could be a problem okay thank you. Represented Collins you're recognized for a question thank you madam chair and just a follow on from represented Gazaway as line of questioning. For my classification it sounds like the thirty days are reads to me like the thirty day supplies to misdemeanors but the felony procedure doesn't seem to have any dates if the pricing internal files a notice of opposition under current law I don't see any dates in there at all and so this would be my my reading puts and clarification and deadlines in their which would seem to me to be a good thing because I believe it's the denial that starts the clock back for someone to be able to re apply after a year and so that they don't have that the Nile of if it's sitting there that could delay somebody unnecessarily and I would think the dates would be good for everybody including prosecutors it but I'm interested in just clarification since I think that it was said that that was thirty days for the part we were changing and I don't think that's correct. I'm not sure I follow which I I think represent gaz was question was but with the current date data and I think that is that is thirty days the bill here does make a distinction between misdemeanors and felonies the thirty days is for misdemeanor there is under I think it's line twenty three on page three of the prosecutor may file a notice of opposition Within forty five days after he received he or she receives the uniformed petition or after that petition is filed so that forty five days kicks in after the prosecutor receives it and then at that point the court shall set a hearing within fifteen days after that forty five day period so I mean that's I think that's a change from current law because there's no distinction right now between I don't think there is between misdemeanors and felonies so that's the I think that's the change. You're recognized for fall I would defer to sponsor to a meeting probably knows more about that than I do in terms of if that was not what I said was correct in it may be a question for the sponsor but in you know it's a little bit hard to follow in the existing laws so I'm not trying to put anybody on the spot but it does read to me that the thirty days only applies to misdemeanors and in B. two and B. and then in three existing law there are no dates so I'm thinking as I look at this existing law it's date less and maybe need some verification and any about. Represent Hudson you're recognized for a question. Thank you madam chair of the I know that you all have talked a little bit about the existing backlogs the impact that these additional and I'd. Petitions may make because could you describe just briefly what the process is for processing these types of petitions because I think it might be useful for us to have a better understanding of how a a petition like this is quite a process by prosecutors. Once I get the petition and I handle all of these come to my office I don't ever oppose them I will do a response if there's some legal issue of the standard legal issue that comes up the most often is the Boeing case after your past your comprehensive act in two thousand thirteen it said is not retroactive with regard to felonies it was to misdemeanors but not the felons so I will look at it and see when when when did this felony fall in if it fell within if it was before two thousand thirteen I will just follow responses they pursuant to both members of state it is discretionary with the court. What to do I I defy you to find one or Daniel shoe the signed it and said I oppose this it is one of those things is discretionary with the judge or his they were his probation judge made the sentence how it judgment call. And what happens physically if judge says it's going to be sealed is we put it an envelope in an envelope it is sealed it's it's a bit of work and then we put the case number on put sealed so we don't know we all we know is that case number and that this record has been sealed and unsealed that you have to file a separate petition to the court to unseal even look at now if you know above work their number of years and often times I can remember but sometimes I don't and and you can't say it's been if it's been sealed this been C.. And as far as the employers getting access to that I. That's not my bailiwick. Of criminal justice purposes that's what we do. If that makes sense. All. You're recognized for follow up and thank you I just I thought it would be functionally helpful for my colleagues understand the processes one other quick question on page two. beginning at one thirteen three fifteen you mentioned that once the bell the file sealed it is actually physically sealed and and if you didn't have a history with that you may not know what that was but this one says quote the fact that a prior felony conviction has been previously sealed shall not prevent the prior felony convictions counting as a prior felony conviction for the purposes of this subsection so how is that felony counted for purposes of of multiple felonies if if it is zero you run in C. I. C. L. C. I. see check and then it comes up then you petition the court you unseal it used you can make a copy of it give it to defense counsel. That. That's that's how it works perfect thank you so much you're very welcome. Represented guess what you're recognized for a question thank you madam chair. So when I look at the page three where it talks about the court shall set this matter for hearing. And I want to I'm just thinking through about how this process would work much like represented Hudson asked. And maybe some of you can elaborate on this but my experience was always that if somebody had one of these petitions they could come in numerous ways sometimes lawyers would be involved in they would mail them to my office sometimes the defendant would fill it out themselves and bring it to the office and just handed. Two one of the secretaries there any number of ways that it just ended up on my desk. And the way that I currently see this the law is written here or is that within forty five days I guess of the date that you receive it. That you have to file an objection. And if you don't it's almost like a default you've waived your ability. To have any objection you wait notice of the hearing and you can't object once it's presented and then there would be the I guess the court would have to. Maybe even set a specific date to put these cases on to having heard and so just as I think through it I'd like to hear from the prosecuting attorney's association Mr issue about how you anticipate your office would handle these and I'm particularly concerned about how you document the date that you received it so that you know how to begin counting the forty five days. And then how it would affect your court docket as far as scheduling these matters for hearing and what the effect of a default might be immoral as masking multiple questions here what the effective like a default might be especially if it was a really serious case that just you know the petition got put on your desk and got and under a bunch of other papers and you just missed your time frame so somebody could address those I would appreciate it thank you. Because of the the limitations and the lack of a serious case such as a homicide there is not eligible to see ill and it'll and let's say they I mean hypothetically if they tried to steal something I've had that happen with the tribes of something that couldn't be sealed and again I do a response I don't do opposition by the response just called to the the court's attention that Hey this was a you know this was actually of theft by thread or or robbery and again it's ultimately the the court that makes that call center I'm vision. That's the way it would still work I mean ultimately the court is the one the skin if if somehow we're barred from providing information to the court the court can still on their own motion say you know I'm gonna look at this and is based in their jurisdiction the look in the computer and see you know the case history. Hello I don't know how to work will we're still talking. I don't see any other correct yes represented board did you want to add something. You may not pressure but. Represent Gazaway I think that's a good question what I would offer to you is I would be open to an amendment that addresses my concern which is right now with a felony ceiling if basically of the process the way I understand it if the prosecutor fails to respond it just kind of stops the whole thing so if we have a mechanism that ensures the it continues on but resolves any concerns you I'm I'm certainly open to those amendments thank you. Thank members I see no additional questions thank you gentleman for providing some information force members we have thank you been chairman committee we have a of six individuals who signed up to speak for the bill that you're would entertain a motion to limit discussion is there a motion representing Crawford you're recognized. Thank you madam chair I would debt limit to a five minute discussion for each person please. You wishing for five minutes per person or three minutes for a person. I did. Members we have a motion on the floor for five minutes per person is there any discussion of representing Crawford I'm sorry did I mean Cavenaugh didn't see you you're recognized yes I have a substitute motion. Let's hear your substitute motion to motion is to limit the by eight to ten minutes per side. Per side yes representing property here that there is a substitute motion or accepting of the substitute motion. Or would you like a limited you are would you like to withdraw your motion represented Crawford that may be the easiest way okay yes I will withdraw okay Representative Crawford has withdrawn her motion we now have a motion on the floor represent Cavenaugh to limit the total discussion time to ten minutes per side is that correct represent Crawford. All right members we have that motion on the floor represent the flowers are you wishing to speak to that motion. You're recognized. I know that there's a substitute motion on the floor I would just like to ask my colleagues To consider that sometimes someone can come up and take all of the time and it looks like there's several people here to speak and maybe to be more efficient. To You know limit for each person and if five minutes is too long it sounded like someone said three minutes. I just want to caution against doing in each side because. That takes away from someone who may have come and want to share something and when the ten minutes is up which could easily be taken by one or two people everyone is left out in the audience who came here to speak and I know all of us want to hear citizens who came here to speak thank you. Members are there any other discussion on the motion it's on the floor. The motion on the floor is to limit the total time of for each side to ten minutes for each side which would be a twenty minute total. All in favor of the motion please say aye. All opposed say no. The eyes have it the motion carries discussion will be limited to ten minutes per side with that we have. Julian lot. Jilin lot does want to come down to the table. In identified yourself you'll be recognized to speak and I will caution you once again we've limited everybody two I mean be ten minutes so be cognizant of that because you have other individuals who may want to speak you are recognized your term will begin once time will be and what you define yourself. Madam chair and committee members again I am July passed in there in the west of the county seat of Camden Arkansas and I serve as president of the Arkansas blackmails association's membership represents fifty seven municipalities in over four hundred and seventy thousand look Arkansans of home I speak on their behalf having dedicated my life to serving our communities I stand today in support of house bill twelve fifty six the minister added is that I could use to try to persuade you to support it to be twelve fifty six but the main reason I ask for your support of the record setting bill is to improve our criminal justice system by prioritizing human dignity and second chances according to the latest data from the anti anti Casey foundation twenty two percent of African American children in Arkansas had a parent who was formerly incarcerated your worst mistakes and not defined the rest of the line expanding access to record sealing for individuals previously convicted of certain nonviolent felonies will make it easier for those who have paid their debts to join and contribute to our communities this would lead to a strength in the economy improve public safety and real second chances by making it easier to find gainful employment and housing what better example kind of mother or father set them to show their children you are more than the worst decision or mistake and you can rise above them H. B. twelve fifty six what proved that this to be the case letting mothers fathers sisters brothers close to the worst chapter close the worst chapter of the lands and reclaim their dignity the Arkansas blackmails association works with members to help build leadership skills and provide opportunities to address social community economic and health disparities that impact our communities many of these communities are in the county is with some of the highest unemployment rates in the state this bill would help many of those. Since find dignity through meaningful work having a criminal record puts you at a disadvantage when searching for an and for employment not having a job or a career makes it difficult to stabilize families improve the family's financial position at the end generational poverty H. B. twelve fifty six would give a person the feeling of self worth and dignity that comes from being a contributor to the needs of their community on behalf of our Kansans I appreciate your consideration ask for your support of H. B. twelve fifty six and I'm available for questions. Thank you Mister Walker C. N. questions will S. thank you for your time thank you for being here teen up hours levy. Actually once you come to the table please identify yourself. And then the time will begin. Ma'am I permit my mass madam chair yes you thank you. My name is Tina Bowers Lee and I'm an attorney the Arkansas public defender commission and with me is my executive director Greg peers. last year the public defender commission created a program to help our past clients still there criminal records the goal of our program is to help them find better jobs better housing become more productive citizens. Since March we filed approximately thirty five petitions across the state and over about thirteen counties so I can speak a little bit to the process that the people have asked about when we. Take on a case we do all the the work to make sure that they are eligible we filed the petition when it goes to the prosecutor. I've never had a court sign off on a petition without the prosecutor blessing it whether it be informally or through a formal response filed with the court. With the third the forty five day period that's in section three my concern is that we're going to create a backlog that's going to go against the point of the bill to help more people get their records sealed because if the prosecutors now have forty five days to respond. Or has fifteen days after that is that a hearing so that's two months after the petition is filed in the by the time the court get that on the docket to hear the case it could be months after in ninety five percent of our cases the people who are coming to us have job offers or they're trying to find a job and creating that link the time period works thirty days for a misdemeanor and other acts like the community punishment or first time offenders I believe it's also thirty days by creating the forty five days that's one issue and I understand the prosecutors have a workload in any time to respond I wonder about the forty five days but also the requirement of the hearing after that the the way the bill is set up right now requiring the trial court to have a hearing even when the prosecutor doesn't respond because either he doesn't object or he just didn't get to it it could be months out for a person to have their case heard on the petition to seal and that makes it impossible for them to find the jobs that we want them to find a also I worry about those people who are not represented by counsel if they are proceeding pro se and the prosecutor has failed to follow response my concern is the trial court may not act on it and those petitions may just sit for a little while or they may languish indefinitely. Thank you. Members are there any questions. Seeing none thank you misli you for being here. The next person who is signed up to speak to reporters Victor Davies. Victor Davies. Mr Davis if you will please state your name for the record and then you may begin. My name is Victor Davies. I am a resident of Lake religion Chicot County. I'm a family member I've been married for over twenty five years I am a total disabled veteran. The charge at the time was in nineteen seventy six and the charge was for having an illegal weapon in the year of nineteen seventy six the Senate three years. R. would. This means to me what HB one of twelve fifty six would mean to me as it would give me number one redemption number to satisfaction. And to have the same rights that everyone else has thirty days that I'll really want to do that would really help me with this bill having this bill passed. Our. I want to just explain jester in episodes a little about Polish. Over time I started working with with veterans. A volunteer to drive a D. V. band of four by six month thereafter could no longer. do this because of their disabilities I work with veterans who needed help getting back for to the VA also giving peer support to help those with alcohol and drug problems before the pandemic I'm delighted veterans and their families to a veterans day celebration each year for about thirteen years until twenty twenty when the pandemic broke out. ASA also you of disadvantaged people a holiday meal on thanksgiving and on Christmas. I hope in my community and everywhere that I possibly can and have been doing this for use. It's been over four years since I was a quirk and incorporated in incarcerated and. I have been on the covers actually. rehabilitated there walked out of prison. Are your. one thing I don't do is look down upon all the people. Or. The or your firm what type of person that hand something or have more than all the people here I would never look down on another human being. I feel in March town that I live in. And this is something the president said long time ago is not what my community can do for me but what I can do for my community. I appreciate your consideration axle your support of H. B. twelve fifty six and I'm available for any questions that you might have. Mister Davis thank you I don't see any questions we appreciate you being here today thank you thank you. Next we have Ricky or Judy Lattimore. Yes Mister Boyd. Madam chair could you tell us about how much time we have left. Two minutes and six seconds thank you. Restaurant where you're recognized yes my name is on press regulation will also see our eight a at the delta units certified as assistant and done a man of many hats Mr Davies is a product of myself I had done sponsored a a sponsored clinic what are met with everybody individually especially him and when I found out his situation. and then I knew that because I worked a lot of people that. This incarcerated again released this looking for a job but I found his case to be unique and Also I support this bill H. B. twelve fifty six because that help other people slack Mr Davies yes the young lady that also had got her work as a sponsor of to work with her and I just wanna read this letter from her and I'll take my seat she has been helped by this our expunge meant of course a lot like her looking for jobs that they can't get because the records in some of these individuals have reconcile twenty thirty years this is where greets her name is Tania Walker I am grateful for the program which is talking about the Esponda cleaning I was charged with possession of controlled substance marijuana in two thousand every time I would get pulled over. And my name was then it will come back. Our record which is what other examples applying for jobs they would talk like I hate the job then they will let me all. All those position was filled in some cases so after I got my record expunged I've tried for the same job and she's a guest what I now have the job. So which the records a sponsoring have me I was now I now have the job always wanted and that's the CNA and this young lady now is working on good how are in so I know people like her will be of the great benefits with this bill. Thank you Mr. Thank you. I would remind the committee this is not an expungement committee members this is not an expungement bill this is ceiling bill so let's not get those two confused of represent the flowers you're recognized. Thank you madam chair I was just wondering. of the people who signed up to speak and I know that some traveled here to do so how many that signed up did not get to speak. There are only two individuals one as Mr Washington who is our reentry case manager for our house and latonya Austin who's returning with voter EMT or the only two that have not and if those individuals would stand up could you indicate to the chair do you have anything different that that you can add to the conversation other than what we have heard. Mr Washington. Chair will entertain a motion to allow these individuals two minutes apiece is there a motion I have a motion by representing Ferguson. Is to limit each individual to two minutes a piece is that correct ninety first St. Represents the motion on the floor is there any discussion of the motion all in favor of the motion please say aye. Motion All opposed please say no motion carries Mr Washington you're recognized and you will have two minutes after you state your name. Fisher button right there and then you state your name and you may begin in Washington reentry case manager or house So I'm here today to speak in support of this bill I work directly with the car With a population of people who are directly impacted by the choices made in this judiciary yes we all do but I guess more to the point my clients many of them are able at this point to expunge their records that locks them into a lifestyle of being left out of unemployment which has been mentioned before but that's more of a cascading effect that I don't think it's being knowledge here by this body if someone is not allowed to participate in a. Normal economy they will usually resort to. Extra means to supplement their income they will make other choices that are necessarily positive to influence better behavior thank you will be in the benefit of of. All of us as citizens of the state to have rules that make it easier for expungement but I do want to commend the efforts of this body because our state is one of the few that actually allows for ceiling at this level and I think that that is not something that we should just throw away it's really beneficial to the population I work with Currently ATC's financial or fiscal year twenty eighteen report states that fifty two percent of people are going to return to present in a three year time of the year time period of being released that means that. A large portion of people who are currently question eighty cities will return to our communities this year and added that population of people it would be very nice if I could help them expunge their records and help them get into more suitable living conditions help them get government benefits help them get enrolled in college this having a criminal record is a barrier to all of those things which basically are required for you to be a participating member of society. Thank you. Thank you Mr Washington. Latonya Austin miss Austin he'll come forward. And after you a state your name and who you're with your time will begin and you will have two minutes. Thank you madam chair latonya Austin honorable daughter M. T. that's voter education voter motivation and voter transportation specifically to the issue of how this bill might affect the reinstatement of voting rights I want to make it very clear that it is not required for an individual's record to be sealed in order for their voting rights to be restored some people think that there has to be a petition for pardon to the governor or have your record deal that's not accurate all that is necessary is that the sentence be discharged fully completed off parole all fines and fees court costs and restitution paid this bill does not directly impact a voters Rights as it relates to the retroactivity it's been talked about in terms of not being able to get your records sealed if you are sentence prior to two thousand thirteen that causes problems because that's where a large part of the objections from the prosecutors come from routinely the object to petitions that are filed where the offenses were before two thousand thirteen because there is not a precise provision that allows for those offenses to be sealed there is however language as it relates to misdemeanors that applies retroactively and so this would essentially mirrored the language that relates to misdemeanors to allow for those individuals who have felony convictions prior to two thousand thirteen to have their records sealed the forty five days objecting period there's been some talk about it essentially civil procedure and how that works there is there could be some judicial discretion and as I understand it I believe there's not not gonna be a request for vote today to kind of iron out some things in terms of numbers and things like that but there could be some judicial discretion that would take care of the concern that great pairs in the public defender commission's office has in terms of getting those things done. And in a timely fashion to allow someone to accept a job offer or plan for job I'm while also taking into account the need for a prosecutor to object if in fact that is necessary one last thing as it relates to any workload that might come as a result of these Representative Jamie Scott pointed out this potentially could help just right now sixty thousand our Kansans who would not want to help sixty thousand Arkansans workload verses no work at all thank you. Thank you miss Austin thanks for all the individuals who signed up to speak for the bill and or to give informational. information to us Representative for what you're recognized to close for your bill. Thank you madam chair I'd like to make one point here before I move on to the closing I mean and and quoted in my closing so. There's a study that shows that people who have had their records sealed are eleven percent more likely to find a job in twenty two in are likely to earn twenty two percent more than people who did not so this is very much an economic freedom bill that said I think with the testimony heard today they're definitely some some wonderful things about this bill that it it does a lot of things to propel our Kansans forward up I do think a couple concerns have been raised that I feel like I need to pull the bill down with this committee's permission and work with the prosecutors and the public defenders and the courts the courts of offered me an amendment as well and I'd like to to get those groups together see if we can get all this ironed out and asked to be brought in next Tuesday for what would I would hope would be a quick adoption of any amendments and a quick vote. Members you have heard the request by represented for you to pull down his bill house bill twelve fifty six is there any objection to his request. Seeing no objection you your questions granted represent what I'm not sure we'll be able to get to your next Tuesday but I'll work with me and I'll I'll try to find you date hopefully next week. Members represent the vitamin is come into the room so let's turn our attention to Senate bill eighty seven Senate bill eighty seven representing claiming you're recognized come to the table and present your bill. Thank you madam chair. A. This Lawrence you with department of health to come and help me present the bill answer questions that you might have. the purpose of the bill SB eighty seven is the clarification and consistency of the criminal. Criminal prohibition prohibiting offenses under the massage therapy acts. The massage therapy access for the regulatory provisions concerning the practice of massage therapy in Arkansas. Since nineteen ninety seven prostitution has been a waiver of bill. Prohibiting criminal offense in the ACT four applications at A. C. A. C. A. seventeen eighty six three oh three it was prohibit early prohibiting offense for licensees up until twenty nineteen. With the passage of act nine ninety of twenty nineteen the massage therapy act. Is internally inconsistent as to the offense of prostitution as well as felonies. S. B. eighty seven cleans up the act. For internal consistencies and intent. A seller number policy issues that this bill would correct. But basically at A. C. A. seventeen eighty six three eleven is a may and not and shall. prostitution convictions are not a permanent barrier to licensure. So this bill actually cleans up that. Some language in there and and makes it clear about the license your and felonies and that's pretty much what the bill does if you look at the bill itself is very few changes here it does talk about. Other states if there's an offense in another state it addresses that and then it and at the bottom or the offense of prostitution. Either in this state or another state so that's simply what the bill does And I would be happy to take any questions. Thank members are there any questions. Seeing no questions but she would you like to make a statement regarding this bill. Thank you madam chair members of the committee this is unusual for the department of health to appear before house Judiciary so we appreciate the opportunity this is a matter of factly that bill for consistency and we appreciate your time thank you. Members are there any questions of this witness. Seeing no questions representing vitamin you're recognized to close for your bill. Lows for mobile. Members representing placement close first bill and I forgot to announce we had no one who signed up to speak for against the bill representing flame Hillman has closed for bill with are the wishes of the committee. Members we have a motion to do pass on the floor is there any discussion of the motion. All in favor of the motion please say aye. Any opposed. Motion carries congratulations you passed your bill. All right members that concludes our agenda for today watch your text messages we're kind of watching the weather to see I we don't really have anything will. Listed yet to run on Thursday if we do meet on Thursday I have a bill that came back from the Senate after they made some amendments so I can run that bill if we need to but just watch in or what your emails those of you who have asked about S. B. twenty four I have not been contacted by the sponsors of that bill so we do not have a date yet with the