Revenue & Taxation- House

It's okay like Kelly board filling commission's office to come up here in case colleagues have any questions absolutely. Chairman and committee I appreciate your patience with me we were waiting on an amendment last time I was here and didn't come through so we can start with the simple amendment that I've got to the bill first merry let me let me we're doing of thirteen fifty three fourteen fourteen forty three and there's an amendment to the bill that we need to pass through it daily the amendment just strikes at some language that the newspaper folks were not appreciative of so we took it out of there so it's all a dozen does everyone have a chance to get a copy of it okay representative Bentley. Seven guys on page two it delays Lines six through ten on page two. Does anybody have any questions on the amendment. Representative Millikan you're recognized. NO questions does anyone else have a question. Okay we have a do pass on the amendment. Second. All in favor. The proposed. Okay amendments task go ahead with your bill thank you Collins if you look at section one we are deleting some obsolete language of the language used to send out a pretty big of publication and Kelly has a here so instead now we do it all online so folks can get that online and also it's in some information that we get quarterly in A. L. C. Nestor section one is. Section two is being amended what is the weather amendment section three just doesn't update some codes there so that we are are in compliance with some existing code that we have elsewhere. And same thing section for first senate bill disorder clean up for the land commissioner's office and we'll take any questions if you have any. Members are there any questions. No one signed up to speak for against it Do I have a motion. I see a motion second. As amended and a second. Okay all in favor hi. Opposed. Congratulations your bills passed miss Mary Bentley Committee I really appreciate your patience have a great day. Thank representative Jett the I don't see a representative Vaught so you're up for. House Bill fourteen sixty eight do you wish anyone to join you. Yes Sir Mr got to mapbox extraordinary. Welcome Mr Bach. The second Mr defy yourself for the record please I'm juggling Matthew Bach tax counsel for the state chamber and I should clarify technically I am not a CPA. All right thank you and if you don't mind if you could take your mask off we could play better correct. Those. Yeah that's the best bills fourteen sixty eight rat yes and I understand we have an amendment are they passed out. Yes please. Thank you. Members does anybody have any questions about the amendment. Seeing under I have a motion. Okay second. All right all in favor. All opposed. Okay representative Jett you could go ahead and present your bill thank you Mr chairman members last session Senate folks come down they had a bill on this tax appeal commission and to plan good fashion Senate form of the bill lacks some stuff and like a better way Senator since we got the Billboard centers towards the back end of session just not enough time to fix all the problems with the the sense then we took the bill over the summer and really worked hard with with the I was just got cleaned up saying he's not a CPA extraordinary but he has a license attorney extraordinaire saw clean it up but in one film my colleague here but we worked hard on with AG's I mean with the IG's office inspector general's office the governor's office bill to the FAA state chamber folks The CPA's and tax attorneys with this bill that's what this bill does is over the years since I've been here in the last ten years I guess they've always been a push to have an independent tax appeal if you if you will and basically the way the process works now this is not a not DFA at all because I think DFA does not have standing job the state for example anybody has an issue with the FNA and if it comes in a lot of she right now I mean when you appeal your bill back to the FAA and the FAA renders a verdict whether you still owe money or what so basically a lot of business focus almost like DFA is the enforcement the judge and the jury and so over the years have been pushed action have an independent tax appeal commission put together outside of politics as much as possible and so this past year what we've done is we sit down on this one B. two Bills eagle take a look at today in the member to use a pass was if if I think I think the way it reads as this bill goes down the second bill goes down because you have to have both bills the bills are so huge so large we cannot put a model one bill it just the FAA and bill are determined it's better to have two different bills the first bill will be the what we're actually trying to in a second bill if you will will be the guts of how the mechanism works because once you have an appeal process somebody with inside the if a written appeal process you can't just shut him off and sent over to a tax appeal And Pentax appeal so it's working through those issues. But what we did was trying to get to trying to get all the politics out of it we decided right from the onset to house of the inspector general's office inspector general the Secretary Smith was very very kind to work hard with this on this to get this door she thought she could handle it inside of our office so the fifty thousand foot view this is there's gonna be three independent commissioners that sits on this and it's going to be acquires I'm administrative court of law if you will although it's not a quarter losses is just kind parent loosely on the ministry of hearings is what it will be and so we have three commissioners and how these three commissioners get picked trying to get it out of politics. the Supreme Court majority Supreme Court Page three folks the the Society CPA's pick three three folks in a bar association picks three folks again nine folks all right so the governor gets to pick three out of the nine candidates to serve on on this commission and on the commission the have to either be a licensee PA who works inside the industry for the five of the last ten years business this is tax industry and after the one's got to be a license tax attorney and the the Big Daddy rather than the main Commissioner the heck Commissioner is going to be has to be licensed attorney and CPA Bills nah not been told several times that bar might be pretty high but I've also been told is probably over thousand those folks here in the state of Arkansas all three of those commissions going to be paid on the the court judge sorry number I thank my memory serves me correct I think this one hundred seventy thousand dollars a year. So side of that so you got three commissions now now we're going to have a staff attorney that helps rights opinion because we have one one of the commission is going to be a CPA so somebody's going to rack companions so one of the one of the staff members will be allowed us an attorney and then we'll have a another auditor that sits on it as well and we started this I tasked the secretary Smith to give us as much people as possible that's what she did and at first she had sixteen staff members in the we got to talking to DFA because we're trying to match up what DFA has as far as cost of what they're doing as well without trying to really expand government here so we got talking and DFA we decided and and the IG was very kind to have to pare this back so we went from sixteen staff members down to nine staff members in in. And I'm sure with you find a find it here with real quick. What we have as far as. Do you have the. So we have three test three test appeal commissioners then we have an information technology manager there is what we have to have their own technology managers because DFA's going to provide confidential taxpayers information this commission this commission actually has to safeguard that information because Arkansas taxpayer act you cannot let I mean nobody or none of us wants our own. W. twos or or so security numbers or tax information floating around so this information has got to be safeguarded with long the taxpayer's act so we have three tax appeal commissioners inside of this we have one information technology manager inside of this we have one staff attorney that was the the person the the the lady or the gentleman we're talking about to be the staff can help that we have one account to to help work through these issues And we have a law Clerk. I think this is a I think it's nine anyway long story short but DFA tells me is based on it's hard to get compare apples to apples here because we're trying to match up with DFA as far as because nobody wants to get used to grow government right so we're trying to match up with DFA as much as possible so DFA says that that tell me that their their labor and everything sets up between two to two point five million and so this what we come in here with with working with the Secretary Smith was a two point five million dollar price tag and how will cover that is probably the general revenues and the thought process is right now is because the a phase one a they're going to reassign those folks are doing inside what they call the their their office I think is office of hearings and appeal right Paul okay so they're going to reassign those folks additional for another duties and they would actually shut that division down in them through a Christian when those folks be ready retire whatever that those never be replaced so basically if somebody says we're going government I'll just argue really we're not here because we're swapping out would be if a with their staff and our money and all that to do what we're trying to accomplish here. So here's how this will work so for example I have a tax issued if a comes in and they say listen you we we thank you will quarter million dollars on your taxes for example okay so now I will dispute that out but I don't think I do and my wife's pretty good bookkeeper you known and so I don't think so so I want to build so DFA's under this proposal on under this bill DFA has a right to to take a look at it and say okay I agree with you Amendment maybe we maybe we want to creationist II instead of us all going all through this appeal process we're just wanna let you go up the and so DFA has a right before you go to fill process now to to settle with me okay say DFA doesn't settle what they said they want to say okay we we we just disagree so this is going to go for an independent Comba pill to mission if you will. Now anything above twenty five thousand any anything below twenty five thousand dollars is set up to where one commissioner can hear the city tying up all three commissioners but but we get to this big money like a quarter million in all three commissioners are going here so that all three commission's going to hear this thing in and then what happens is at the end of it they're going to rule so say for example they rule in my favor and if it takes DFA off if a disagrees if they still has the right to take this to court and led to be heard in the traditional manner if the if it's vice versa if they rule against me I still have the right to take court just like you would on property tax issue going to the county judge and and then the court on the back end of in that back into the if if we will decide DFA over the content and commissions right if the tax bill commissions right DFA satisfied with the verdict I'm satisfied with the verdict and then they they really my favorite off and then at the back end of it this independent commission is tasked with actually putting that out on the website no we're not talking about putting. Individual taxpayers money out in public when the or the information out in public we're not talking about. We're we're talking about the overall fifty thousand foot view what was the problem what today look at how do they rules that way what are intentions are on this is is of the same problem rules comes up pops up again in the same manner as a client two years down the road so you know I remember case couple years ago let me go back and research that they can pull it back up in it And might potentially save DFA and taxpayers a lot of money based on the rulings that those three individuals on the independent task mission how they rule so that's a massive fifty thousand foot view and I probably forgot a couple things meant does anything you wanna add to that. might clarify I think the the Commissioner salaries are more around a hundred and fifty is is district judge or similar to a district judge rather than a circuit judge But the if I think you pretty much summed it up there happy to help with any questions. I'm sorry does anyone have any questions I have one. A representative Jett the difference in the. Figure that we have on our sheet of three million so and the two and a half you spoke with that take into account the going from sixteen to nine is that what the differences yeah much faster I appreciate bring it up actually this morning we amended that in in personnel and budget so that and then that's not reflected in this my apologies DFA I think a part of my side you with that but we actually meant of that this morning we went from sixteen positions and I'm decisions and the figure it out is The figure that that figure is two hundred fifty. Turning fifty five at ten fifty five million dollars is what goes down to now thank you with not positions. Any other questions two two million. Yes some of my apologies at a good time as big numbers kind of. The a major. Thank you Mr chair can you help me and then just understanding how is this done in other states to the other states have something like this or can yes Matt Matt research I think pretty extensive what we found is access the president my best one thing that got us really kind of going on this that we start take a look around and that brought the out brought it to me and I let Matt speak to that thank you research that pretty good thank you represent Mayberry so the about two thirds a little more than two thirds of the states have some sort of independent tribunal right now Arkansas is one of only fourteen that do not the bill before you today is space based on the two thousand nineteen legislation and also this American Bar Association model independent tax tribunal act which is spent or endorsed by the American Bar Association the A. I. CPA the national CPA is as well as Alex the legislative exchange council. Rezende. The representative Mayberry would you turn your soft. The representative Jett I add at the beginning you mentioned where this bill originated could you state that again yeah what what happened was last year during during the session towards the end of the session Senator Blake Johnson brought this to come out of the Senate actually passed out of the Senate in it out of a member server correct is about ten pages or something like that now see now you're looking at two thirty page bills it really didn't have the funding mechanism. my my opposition to the bill was and no no offense to the governor but it let the governor pick all three or whoever said on commission I can for those in my back more amendment five commissioners but the and so it is is have different issues in there that that it was never clear this committee it was brought to my attention probably about two to three weeks to go in the session we're already working on our say at the time in the bill just had too many hurdles I mean there's no way I mean you just really basically had to reset restart you can and you know I feel like we just could amend a bill to get or it was going to come out of this committee because you guys do great work as you will know and Hello thank you thank you smile on it and in the Senate don't and so thank you representative Jett. Follow up. Go ahead. Then then the question how many cases right now coming out of DFA to settle tax disputes how many cases that we have painting that actually go to the District Court or or or appeal the decision and ruling of DFA right now and what's that cost. I'll amend for to DFA on a second because I certainly don't speak for those folks and I think properly got to handle some of members Paul. But but I will tell you this representative of one of the things that this commission is tasked with once you're they've got to come through through the inspector general's office and I have to tell the the General Assembly how many people are coming to to have their their hearings or appeals how many people when the case is how many people losing the cases so and we're at once again we're not after individual taxpayers information we just want aggregate numbers so that way we can kind of see what's going on the effective we think maybe DFA might be too strict on something you know something out there that we don't maybe something we take care of us lately or maybe something to tighten up on so we're we're we there they will be tasked with tracking those numbers just to follow I could see where this would be beneficial to those that have claims under the twenty five thousand dollar mark they may be smaller complaints or disputes compared to those that are exceed a quarter million that this this might be more beneficial does that one four go the legal experience of going to court absolutely in on it It deals within this bill you'll see in on the second building bills are on any machines to two manufacturing a multi million dollar products and everything's everything when you look at the second building I mean you look across I've seen all the code on anybody to tell me they looked up all the codes in the second bill I'm not gonna find something to do at night time you know because it's but it deals with everything everything's in there and how that's going to work is it is below twenty five thousand dollars they had Commissioner whoever he or she may be the task one of the other commissioners consent here that individual so that way you can actually expedite the without without all three have the year nothing in this bill that we I'm glad to say also the taxpayer can appeal in this home. your station if you will so in other words they they there's provision for teleconferencing or these guys can actually go on a road or there's a provision in a lot of times where somebody says Hey listen I just want you guys to come to my job site and actually look at what I've got and I'm not saying DFA's never done that because I'm on a mission that the auditors have with this section we has provision where the the tax commissioners can actually load up and go look at the job site to see what's going on. Okay represent these. Thank you Mr chairman that was held under stand is fourteen sixty eight is what creates the commission and the other bills on the transfer is the duty from the oven a to the new commission among other things yes right beside the that you're out just like a bird was sent this is just set everything up the first bill the second bills of sausage making. The representative before. It is a little bit of all questions but it's a little bit of follow up to representative body is there any estimated amount of taxes that will be collected with this commission that would not have been collected without it. You know I think represent I think just times when the tail you know what what we hope we're just trying to make everything more taxpayer friendly I think this is a win win for DFA I think is a win for us I think it's a win for the taxpayers of Arkansas more importantly you know and you not I can give you the definitive answer I'll just I'll just tell you I think you know just times when the tail you know of so the three million if I understand correctly is basically the gross operational budget to accomplish that two point five yes Sir okay in that that's with the added cabbie ought to that promise personally the sectarian inspector general that if this thing does you know one thing that we do not want this is reason why I asked the inspector general to put too much stuff in the right of the gate because one thing we don't want to do is we don't want to set these folks up to fail that's one thing we do not want to do because we're dealing with taxpayers searches of Arkansas companies employers of you know a lot of folks so we do not want cities folks up to fail but then we pared back to one thing I did promise or is if we got a we found out we pared back skill back too much the next session we're coming and trying to trying to give us more help over there she's she's she's been over backwards force on this. The representative neighbor. Thank you Mr chair okay so just help me understand so it the additional two point five million but there would be some savings from D. F. and a since they were the ones handling all this so what is that savings to D. F. and a is there an actual dollar amount or is it just that just kind of help me rationalize truly two point five million but DFA's appropriation bill go down two point five million so really it's kind of equal or just help me process there's talk of that right now that you know I'm not this would definitely but. He you know without you know it's hot because here here's the here's the deal we start trying to compare apples to apples DFA verses this thank you they already have inside folks were they can actually bring in somebody that's not acting on hearing impaired appeal process you know they have like an I. T. person the right to stop misses out they got somebody else they can bring in you know inside there so there's no you know they have some overlap there for this does not what Paul in those folks over DFA tells me is is the thank you their budgets based loosely on about a two million dollar takes to run the hearing an appeal process Division or DFA this is a little bit more two point five is a little bit more but but but just to a Christian what we think is is you know what Senator later we're not paying at two million dollars DFA in this is a two million dollar and so basically what we see this as it is a wash. Anyone else have questions. Representative Jett would you like definite have an opportunity to come to the other team not really not okay not shed does kid coming up all the I have a question. Jean Jett you you said that we don't want to grow government which which which we don't. so in my Simple Minds I would assume that. The FNA overtime. Would does. Absorb this increase in budget and. Cut their personnel by the quorum out of people is that a basic assumption here is that in the tradition I mean I think politics fired to second that they're going to resign the people in hearings bill and I just once again I just want to say this is not a reflection of the fine folks over at DFA or the folks that works in that division this is just it's just the right thing to do for taxpayers of Arkansas you know no I've I think we all understand that I appreciate the the effort you put into this and and the bill itself and I think probably did what I don't work enough Paul. Bless us here with your thoughts. Thank you Mr chairman thank you members of the committee disabilities identified yourself my apologies Paul hearing Arkansas department of finance administration the house bill fourteen sixty eight is we've worked several months and several hours of the past six months or so to work on this bill to make sure it was the best product of making sure that the process that we have will not be cumbersome upon taxpayers it will achieve the also to minimize the cost to the department as well and it's certainly what I do have is the approximate personnel costs that we have in the office of hearings and appeals right now you have to administrative law judges and one support staff person the personal costs or in the mid two hundred thousand range but of course we have our I. T. department we have all of our individuals in the heirs tax system that infrastructure is also there we also have our police officers for the Revenue Division that service security for the department. so we'll have the space that they currently are located and so we certainly have all of our overhead costs in addition to our personnel costs but certainly with the commission being created in the inspector general's office they're certainly going to need to have because you have in the three commissioners. With one of them being a CPA you're going to have the support person in place that's going to be able to assist with legal issues and also for the complex tax or accounting issues you're going to have the appropriate support person there as well so um we certainly see that under the bill the the current office of hearings and appeals plans to be continuing operation no later than June of two thousand twenty three to make sure that we can handle all of the incoming tax matters that are going to be submitted to DFA between now and the end of two thousand and twenty two so at some point we will have if this bill is approved by the General Assembly will have the tax appeals commission that will be operating and receiving incoming matters. and then eventually those matters that we have already received that we have had a maybe haven't had at the hearing yet but the taxpayers invested substantial time in their protest before DFA they can continue to have that protest heard by the FAA under this bill. In at the end of the fiscal year ending June of two thousand twenty three we will have to a DFA close the office of hearings and appeals completely certainly we have three individuals that have spent many many years within state government also within DFA they have substantial experience and and state tax law we would certainly like to keep those individuals but we're not going to need administrative law judges to hear tax speech anymore she wanna make sure we have opportunities for them to where we can bring the men into other roles but certainly after. July one and two thousand twenty three there will be no office of hearings and appeals anymore. Thank you other than those three that you mentioned how many dedicated staff do you have for this process now but we have done the the dedicated staff for the office of hearings appeals are those three individuals and that's all two judges and and one support staff person that is their case coordinator however we have we have our I. T. we have our security personnel we have our maintenance that's all in a shared building in the fifteen oh nine building which houses a number of different DFA offices so it's hard to specifically quantify how all those support organizations within DFA also support the office of hearings and appeals but it's the cost for the office of hearings and appeals is not just the salaries and benefits of those three employees thank you members you have any questions representative gene. Thank you Mr chairman VOL from what I'm hearing is is that in the long run. This call maybe it's going to cost the state more to do this but we believe it'll bring fairness. Two of taxpayers that have of cases before the state would that be a fair statement what will certainly right now you've got the the three individuals that are within the office of hearings pills there will be more staff persons involved you certainly gonna have another judge over at the tax appeals commission and also the rate of compensation as provided in this bill to attract the types of individuals that would be both an attorney and CPA the level of compensation is going to be higher than what currently the classified the two administrative law judges the two administrative law judges are GS twelve on so the the approximately starting salary for that position is somewhere in the in the high sixty thousand dollar range currently I think one of them right now is being because he's been with this state for at least two decades almost maybe three decades. And he's making the ninety thousand range and the other is I believe in somewhere in the high seventies or or low eighties so there the rate of compensation certainly higher but if we're going to be able to get the type of individuals that are going to be have these qualifications as best out this state set forth in the bill I think you're going to need to have to be very competitive and to also have someone leave their practice for a nine year period to to accept one of these appointments and you know if your attorney and CPA in Arkansas you're probably you're probably making more than what the salary would offer if you have a very successful practice so I think that but providing the tax appeals commission have a more robust. Process for taxpayers and the hope is also that if. The if you have a more robust process at the tax appeals commission. The hope is that we don't need to litigate and there's going to be certain issues that are not going to be within the jurisdiction of the tax appeals commission that they'll have to go to court for and if they're going to for example declare one of our they they believe that one of our stacks and statute is unconstitutional or they have other claims that are beyond the scope of the tax appeals commission but right now if they have those arguments they can go straight to court anyway and they would not have to go to the tax appeals commission to exhaust their administrative remedies they could they could file directly with the circuit court but you put your question above by providing a more robust procedure I think you're going to have. More costs with provided tax appeals commission but with the idea of providing. A greater process for taxpayers to get receive due process. And also with the hope that we can minimize the need to feel cases to circuit court or to the Supreme Court. Follow up so this same with full blown till July of twenty three the correct the the commissioners will will be appointed by the end of two thousand twenty two and they have to start being able to accept the petition's by the taxpayers by one one of twenty three okay I'm sorry that I'm sorry the commission to be appointed by July July one twenty two and then they have to start accepting cases by one one of twenty three be re go to work yes but they have to promulgate rules get their get their get everything they need to get ready starting middle of two thousand twenty two so coming up this next fiscal year which which will begin the twenty twenty two fiscal year July one. Of. What is the difference of the RSA or that all will be kicked down till twenty twenty three July one only increase the RSA because this will have to be this act be funded with your revenue is and certainly we definitely ready to have those conversations with representative Jett and other members of the General Assembly and The department inspector general to to figure out what the time line is going to be because the the commissioners have to be appointed by a set date and and they wanted to gear up and start this commission so they're going to need certainly need to have appropriate amount of funding to get started and to commenced the process of of gearing up getting that getting the process in place so when on one one of twenty three when they have to accept the petitions from the taxpayer's that they're ready to do so okay so you're thank and next fiscal year they need a portion of the money or. we haven't gone that far have we I I might need to let inspector as secretary inspector general talk about that issue I'd like to it. I don't want to speak for her department will. But certainly I think that we definitely going to have to be able to provide for the appropriate level of funding so they can get started their work before even before they start receiving case okay thank you. Representative gene would you like to have the young lady come to the table. Back on areas I will be visiting with her four o'clock I just talked about that the okay thank you that represented Mayberry did you have a question. A resident. Thank you I think representative gene kind of got to my point and and questioning but maybe I'm just a little slow and and I'm going to ask you is well so if we had to law judges making mid two hundred and now we're gonna have three commissioners making about a hundred and fifty thousand each but these law judges are not moving over to the new area they're staying with D. F. and a I guess I'm still trying to figure out how the if in a in sept. Savings some money I mean that to me it just it doesn't seem like it's a wash it seems like this is a full two point five. Million that would be needed in my and my I'm still trying to figure out the math I don't think anybody should if they save money on this now okay we're just trying to do is try to get the same as close as possible to represent lane jeans point long ago the difference here is is the two commissioner says on appeals or hearings an appeal they have access bill picked the phone up and called it a night these folks that they're gonna go dig in the books and all that and try to find all this stuff for sale so there's there's some overlap and cited DFA's office where they have. Outside staff that can come in and help these folks don't and I just think it's incumbent of us we're going to go down this road to do this is this not cities folks up to fail you know list you know this is the way I see it is cost of doing business for the taxpayer's Arkansas we're trying to make this a better process if you will for the taxpayers of Arkansas. So so what would these law judges what what would they be transferred to doing. The two law judges you were saying you would keep them there what would they then do with D. F. and a. that you make off to the. It's made their. Thank you represented here well certainly both our ministry law judges are licensed to practice law in the state of Arkansas DEFA has several divisions that employs attorneys we also have individuals that have a background in in the legal environment and they work in other areas we we certainly want to be able to if for other positions that are within DFA whether it's revenue legal counsel which is the where I am employed we also have. Of the of the number of attorneys are working child support lottery. An alcohol beverage control of many of our attorneys going to administrative positions within the organization we would certainly want to try to find a pathway for those individuals that have been spent their careers within the department to find other positions but it has not yet been determined on once they once they wrap up all of their outstanding cases what the path will be but we certainly want to provide a path for our two judges and our support staff person if they would like to continue their career with the effect that we would like to keep that experience and all the work they've done within within the department but but to your question it has an accent at all then decided because we wanna make sure we know what our needs are in two thousand twenty three when we are wrapping up and and closing up that department. So just a quick it so it is not a wash there it this is definitely not a wash situation that this this process is going to be a more robust process with more more highly compensated positions for the commissioners the that when I mentioned it made two hundred thousand dollar figure that was for the payroll costs of the three current employees combined and so There's it is going to be a more I think of it's going to be more funding that's going to be required to provide this procedure but what is also a reflection of what we see a DFA over the over the top over time there's a growth of cases that comes in to the department for consideration so it's it's not just a static cost it would be fixed for. But not bad because you'll feel to the Secretary. Where water sector you. We have a tremendous amount of turnover within DFA including not a tremendous and the and the legal staff but we have to turn over we're looking at this what a year down the road we will have slots for these people to adequately other common date of these people to be absorbed as a set of hiring somebody will bring them in and of course they also have the option of looking at other jobs throughout the state and they could seek other employment but we want to have a place for them to DFA because of their experience. Thank you Secretary waters the does anybody else have any questions. Is there anybody else who would like to speak for or against. Represent yet would you like to close Mr think were closed. All right. What are accept a motion for your bill as amended. Yes you do pass as our second. Second. Okay all in favor I. Opposed. Congratulations your bills passed thank you Committee now does everyone have the second amendment. There's. There's going to be an amendment come in we'll give you just a minute to take a peek at that. This. Good question members also is very good very good very. All. Yeah. In June I will talk to you later bye funding for this. This. Like. Nobody said anything about pork barrel Jean. Thank you appreciate. All the. Okay does anybody have any questions about the The Amendment you see there for any. Would you like to go over briefly represented gene forced The Amendment. President Jean Jett yeah both of them we got to keep him quiet it got really I don't have them in front of me so I'm assuming the moment is. Somebody get yes this amendment members what this moment is inside the bill there was uh language at Matt brought to my attention was talking about the court in Pulaski County thank you ma'am with some of the court of Pulaski County we will make sure that everybody taxpayers understand state statutes is not plastic county but it can also be in the county their own jurisdiction and cleans that up and just cleans up just a couple of the small items in there but the the main thing was about the. The court in the circuit court of which the council the owner sees of it the properties with values that make extensive language that both bills and that's what the member does. Okay do I have a motion. Do pass up. Second. All in favor. Any opposed. Okay amendments passed would you like to present the bill number. Seventeen oh five yes Sir thank you Mr chairman. Members basically what this bill does it authorizes the hearings before the commission it puts everything into motion provides a sunset date for hearings of the Office of hearing appeals because keep in mind is going to be a transition period because you got folks inside the hearing process right now and then is going to ramp up and gradually over a period thank twenty twenty three so it it puts at sunset date and to what the FAA's cut drop dead date is. It allows disclosure confidentiality taxpayer information to. This independent commission because under the Arkansas Tax per Tatian the if they can not disclose any of that information outside of DFA so it gives. DFAT permission to disclose disclose taxpayer's information to the commission. And codifies existing hearing process is currently handled by the ministry Lee by DFA so the basically just change the duties from the effort name over to this new independent commission. In the bill also requires a publication of all of the decisions on a state website once again it's not an S. as a so that was another bill ago I confuse myself actions in this bill the best at the end of the at the end of the session thanks it is not one of individual taxpayers information broadcaster disseminated out across the the what the World Wide Web but it's going to have just the decision rendered what it was about without detailing taxpayer's information. And then come from. DFAT. says this companion bill to the last bill it creates the independent commission within officer officer of the specter General to her tax appeals the bill amends all assisting code sections that provide hearings before the office of hearings and appeals within DFAT before the commission the sense that's what we do so while ago it just transfer. Everything in code over to this new pills Commission after twelve after January first twenty twenty three DFA will no longer accept protest taxpayers would need to file a petition with the commission. The and C. N. there's actually represent General finest B. regulator's Action no revenue impact on this bill. So with that will try to attempt to answer any questions. That is there any questions. President occur. It was a question or point but since the Office of hearings and appeals with the DFA a shifting those responsibilities it seems as though there would be a decrease in cost if they're doing something they're longer doing so. It just to a point more than a question I guess I would agree with you Sir. Thank you twelve. Representative wouldn't you're recognized. I'd like to make a point if I'm not Mr. From experience. Of this This legislation is way over to. well I served as director DFA and to keep foreign back to what I used to do that to. But when I was director one of the one of the. Things I dreaded the most was reconciling these appeals with the K. and then ultimately they would wind up all month this. The end the Secretary is put today the secretary will could be awarded the I was put in the position of either going against your staff or going in favor of the taxpayer and so it was just kind of really of the tenable position. Many times had to come down a little on the side of the taxpayer well you know that is that room well this bill do away with that and and and like I said this is long overdue. Here's my biggest concern. Some of some of some of the settlements. It turns. When I was there and Love saying now. The taxpayer Milo a hundred and seventy five hundred eighty thousand dollars. And they would have to settle for said seventy five thousand dollars a month my point was that was. What about all the taxpayer's the page the twentieth of the month everybody did their work Page and it was you know what about them they didn't have their risk so but anyway this this process here like I said is long overdue thank you Mr. Thank you thank you absolutely hi there any more questions from the committee. Is there anybody in the audience that wants to speak for or against. Seeing none are you ready to oppose president Jeff I'm close Mr hello Septimus. Due process okay I have a motion do pass as amended as our second. Okay all in favor. All opposed. Congratulations your bill has passed as amended thank you Mr chairman thank you committee I appreciate our work. All right now I think. Presented Vaught has. Sauntered in are you prepared representative Vaught well. Service is a big guy gets out of the chair you can take. Yeah. I'm in big guy as the boss not structurally. Thank you Mr chair the representative Vaught is the bill you have fifteen forty three yes Sir all right go ahead you're recognized her at and this is the bill that I brought before the committee the other day and representative Jean had asked me and representative Jett had asked me for some non codified language I don't want to send it to the Senate without doing what I'd said I would do which was put in the non codified language and that's all that I changed in the bill it's the same deal just with the non codified language saying that we are not responsible for setting the tax rates for the assessors all right thank you are there any questions members. Is there anybody in the audience to speak for against. Do I have a motion that second. All in favor. Any opposed. Your bill is passed thank you Mr chair thank you Committee. All right seeing no other business And I don't think the jets coming back so we'll call is turned. There you go. What.