Revenue & Taxation- House

What's your granted on the federal level in reality this is not going to be widely use of your W. two pair you're going to pay your you're going to file your state and federal the same time where this will come into play is just like we're doing right now there are a lot of state laws that are changing you know not just in Arkansas but around the country in regards taxation hi this would allow folks to have some additional time to ensure that if there's by filing multistate returns for instance that they are filing proper returns they're more accurate in nature and so this just gives an additional thirty days there is no revenue impact because it doesn't hit us you know doesn't push anything outside one fiscal year another there will be a delay potentially if someone hasn't paid in their full payment that was due to a technically that should have already been received by the state. Thank you members also we are letting this one out of the committee wants to do we have any questions. Binational speak against the bill. We're going to have a question you have a look on your face or commercial K. in any office will speak against the bill for the bill. J. DISMANG closely bills are closer revision will you make a motion sir. I have a motion represent alone for do pass any debate all in favor say aye. Those results for your bill passed. Members of the Senate bill forty one but Senate dismaying also this bill is good to be released I saw members this is actually a program in place that I think all of us to would like to hear about that really does not exist it's only been used once in the last twenty years that's because it's difficult to use what this bill does it says a tax credit a fixed amount for thirty three percent of the taxpayer's contribution in this is related to contributions for roads so for instance if a manufacturer wants to come in the State of Arkansas but they have to have a better roads better better read structure they can make a contribution to have that road built in to get a credit in place currently the way it states it's limited to three years well if you're manufacturing setting up shop the odds of you throwing off income in the first three years and being able to utilize that credit is pretty much slim to none and so this extends that out up to ten years and also increases the credit from fifty percent of the taxpayer's taxable income two hundred percent of the taxpayer's taxable income it would be wrong retroactive and go back to January first twenty twenty I know of no projects this is being utilized on now I know that some folks have tried to utilize in the past but it's not been feasible again I think I think it be a good you know it's a good bill hopefully for recruitment of industry to the state or the businesses to the state. Thanks for any questions. Regionalen Gen you're recognized. Weaker. Senator Dismang. Just getting out of a meeting with this big project in pine bluff could they be affected on this I think they could utilize it if they just put up the money okay thank you. Thank you Lester Fortner you're recognized okay. General questions. Anybody else will speak against the bill for the bill sure Dismang you closing your bill I'm close for the bill resent Fortner makes motion for do pass any debate all in favor say aye. Posed read Leslie passed bill. Members Mexico be Senate bill five ninety three in Senator Dismang going to run this bill for Senator Hickey ninety three this bill is going to pass out as well yes this is so the feds change the tax due date for individual income tax returns this just Mears that that change that they line up And this is already part of an executive order by the governor this is but that it puts in code. Thank you there was any questions. Anybody how to speak against the bill for the bill DO emotion. I have a motion to pass in debate all in favor say aye. Those registry pastor bill. All right members this is a House bill fifteen ninety six we will be holding this bill and The somebody will come to into the table help you Sir is there another I believe there's amendment if we win unless we want to drop that are amended first listed in my first marriage will pass out amendment on that. Not well the amendment because the if we just I got the amendment common but DFA's going to come and testify to the bill get money parts squared away so my apologies on that it was just that was having a hard time working through the moment with the time issue we want to get this this bill in a cycle to be considered with the you know the package so we kinda heard this law. Yes what I just remembered the Division come here little bit they're gonna they're gonna explain it even though we don't have a right now. All right retirement start Senator Dismang you wanna feed on Amendment yes so this this bill how many amendment really tries to pare down the bill to make sure we control cost in it will all it does is it adds a permanent item at to the articles of commerce and Mr Bach and explain this better to me but I will say in it some was probably just as he explained the amendment as the bill because it's now the bill but that we have lost businesses to the state of Arkansas because the way we interpret in not allowing a printed item to be considered articles commerce in this is in my opinion would be some clarification of state I think DFA would probably agree that they've had a different interpretation but it does help us retain employers here in the state of Arkansas okay let's do it like this if you don't care Sir your amendment your bill can we just make a motion to adopt and we'll just go to the bill that way saves to getting questions on a member's. Anybody not speak against it for the motion to adopt the amendment a motion document any debate. All in favor say aye. Good good Sir the end up to. And with them again the minute pretty much was the bill it allows printed items to be included in the articles of commerce that's you know previously been disputed by the FAA and again we've had some businesses left the state because we did not allow for that it with that if it's okay I'll turn it over to Mr box for further explanation Matthew don't care body recognize yourself sure mapbox tax counsel for the state chamber thank you Mr chairman of the committee this is a sales tax exemption essentially giving printers the same exemptions that other manufacturers get a premiums been listed in the manufacturing exemption for decades now the difficulties been this article of commerce doctrine which comes at a Supreme Court case law understand where DFA's coming on it but effectively it makes it make sales and use tax really tricky for printers and what this will do will bring clarity that if you're engaged in printing and printers pays collect sales tax from their customers in Arkansas the then you can your machinery and equipment is exempt and the materials that become a physical part of the finish printed products for your paper and ink would also be exempt under the resale exemption. Thank you any questions. Inviting us to speak against the bill. For the bill the members were not taking a vote on this the service manual close for the bill again I will say so there is a revenue impact of two point six million dollars for the first year four million dollars for the second year I think the if they would probably you know testified to that in the end this just places taxation at the end user one time taxation my apologies I don't if I go into the table and explain fiscal impact. Not a step away that'll be my clothes thank you. Thank you Mr chair Paul Goehring department of finance administration a win house bill fifty ninety six was originally introduced it did have a a broad implications for specialty manufacturers not particularly just for the job printers the specialty printers. And that Mr Bach is correct we we are DFA relying upon a Arkansas Supreme Court case from sometime ago with regards to our interpretation of the applicability of the exemptions that are important to the specialty printers of the job printers so we and conversations with Mr chairman we did work with to figure out a way to limit the scope of the bill just to the job printers of the specialty printers. With the bill and we did prepare fiscal impact based upon the bill as amended and as a sitter just being mentioned we anticipate the estimated revenue impact in the first fiscal year FY Twenty two would be two point six million and then also in a full fiscal year FY twenty three would be four million. I'd be happy to answer any questions and we will be issuing of a fiscal impact statement based upon the bill as amended okay Paul could you actually just sent out to all committees all members of the committee please actually let out you have to have any questions. All right Shannon Pritchett Paul. Thank you yes. resent Penzo you wanna go Sir. Members will be held on this bill as well. Like to have a Casper Huber join at the table absolutely thanks guys. The because we get situated just recognize yourself going to start. Okay. Chairman vice chairman representatives thank you for having me here today to speak in support of house bill sixteen twenty four my name's Casper's you were. I'm an attorney restore paragraph of have Arkansas practice focuses on estate planning tax planning both of which involve a lot of trust work. House Bill sixteen twenty four six to eliminate income tax instead Arkansas on non grantor trusts. The reason I'm speaking support of this bill is because I interest my firm as well as the banks and trust companies that we've spoken to about this bill I believe that bring tens or hundreds of millions of dollars in trust assets in the State of Arkansas to be managed by trust companies here invested in assets here in the state and as part of that also create new job opportunities to help manage those assets further we believe now is an opportune time for Arkansas to be more competitive in trust management as somebody who may be aware there's been a recent proposal at the federal level to increase estate and gift taxes by a reduction in the lifetime exemption amount not to get too far into the details on that but the point being that we think a lot more these trusts will pop up in in the next few years to combat that the lowering exemption amount and there are eight states currently that have no tax on non grantor trusts and so by passing this bill we can be more competitive with other states and help keep assets in the state our firm represents a lot of individuals who set up these trusts and take their assets out of state to avoid this tax already Arkansas is losing out on the revenue from from those assets and we also think that if this bill were to pass that additional assets will be brought into the state as well to do this type of planning. Happy to answer any questions on the bill thank you Sir president Penzo anything that Sir. No I think the initial fiscal impact statement has been been revised or will there's been discussion on it not think the fiscal impact significantly lower I don't know if there's Casper might be able to address that more in detail but I think it's lower than what was initially okay we'll get we'll get if I come down and to have our second okay thanks reserve for you got a question Sir. Thank you Mr Speaker Promoted you did you did yeah the measurement could you help me with this I'm sure I should know what is a Not grant or trust as as a compared to a typical trusted I understand yes Sir happy to answer that question so from an income tax standpoint there are two general types of trust to be a grant or trusts and a non grantor trusts grant or trust or trust where the income is taxed directly to the grant for which the person who created the trust transferred assets to it all of the standard revoke herbal estate planning trust that that we use as part of our practice those to be considered grant or trust so non grantor trusts are very very rare in practice and I'd like to add to that that not grant or trust that distribute income out to the beneficiaries that income gets carried out and paid on the beneficiaries return so it's only that the trust that hold the income non grantor trusts holding income inside the trust that would be subject to this bill and because the federal rate on non grantor trusts is very hot they reach that the top marginal tax bracket thirteen thousand dollars of income so there's a big incentive for trust make distributions not grant or trust make distributions and care that income out anyway so there there's really got to be a business reason or or some underlying reason other than tax avoidance that the people are holding the income in the non grant or trust but simply put non grantor trusts are trusts that actually following pay their own income tax rather than it being passed on to the grand for. Thank you. Region during your question Sir. Thank you Mr Casper of the non grant or trust or are they taxed now at the same rate as individuals in Arkansas five point matters what what what is the rate they're taxpayer. The Arkansas Tax yes Sir it's six point six I believe is six point six was higher than what the individual is yes Sir I believe so that was as of twenty twenty so. Could be lower this year honestly am I apologize well I I'm thinking it may be five point nine yeah I think so I think it is correct will get if a certify that all right thank you clean that up I think it is correct the fate you guys are currently researching that are due to moderate from the question president will your question Sir. Thank you Mr chairman did I understand you to say when the distribution they pay income tax on the trust fund grant over and then if it's distributed out to those members of that trust their tax to. No Sir if the if the non grantor trusts makes a distribution there's a a deduction that the trust gets for that distribution so would not be paid at the trust level at that point to be carried out to the beneficiaries return it's only non grantor trusts that are not making those income distributions to the beneficiaries which are very few and and our practice okay thank you Mr you're welcome Sir with any other questions. If they can go to any type of force please. Thank you Mr chair Paul Gary with DFA DFA did issue a fiscal impact statement for house bill sixteen twenty four and the revenue impact that we estimated with the bill as filed was fourteen point six million reduction to general revenue for FY twenty two we did have a conversation with Mr Huber Mr Rees earlier today as well represented Penzo to kind of go over a little bit of our data for our fiduciary returns we do anticipate that we will be able based upon the data that we talked about that will be able to make a reduction to the fiscal impact statement to account for those fiduciary returns that are for decedent's estates we anticipate that to be about five percent of the tax it's being reported or on the fiduciary returns for does the seats a state we're also gonna be working through that the individual data that we have for the twenty one thousand a fiduciary returns that we that would include that the specific non grant or trust that are included within our revenue impact we will issue an updated fiscal impact statement once we work through this additional information that we discussed with representative Penzo and Mr Huber mysteries earlier today be happy to answer any questions so you're you're expecting the fiscal impact to be significantly lower bodily lower we we anticipate that will be taking out that five percent of those fiduciary returns that are for decedent's for people that have passed away so that now as to the remaining complex trusts and simple trust that we have of those twenty one thousand we're gonna be working through that data in more detail and then we will have an idea but I can't say at this time whether or not there will be a significant reduction in the fiscal impact but I can say is we believe will be taking out that five percent for the decedent's estates which would be Actually bring the revenue impact about thirteen point seven based upon taking those five percent those returns out in in the tax rate is five point verify that is five point nine that's correct Mr one thing I'd ask is if you guys don't care do this ASAP force causes or wrapping down so president will you have a question Sir. On the on the five percent you're saying is that reduce it to thirteen point seven. Between five and six percent between five and six yes Sir. Okay it and what you said you will go back and look now is those people who are deceased within the stress those are the that five and six percent of the tax that was collected on fiduciary returns were for decedent's estate so when an individual passed away in the state had it income that reported on a fiduciary return we are going to cause that would not be included within a a non grant or trust okay hello. Do you have a question two were you distinguish between a grant or the the grant or trust let the tax return the generally the grant or trust and we have on the return a number of boxes that can be checked a grant or trust is one of those boxes that can be checked on the fiduciary return the grant or trust as was discussed in the presentation of the bill that income is reported on the the grand towards individual income tax return because they retain a degree of control over the trust assets any income is reported on the grand tour so it's not report on a fiduciary's return or or the trust return. Is not reported only on the individual income tax return okay so. I'm trying to get the exact LOL as you stayed here revenue impact is gathered from actual tax reports. And for this year income are you so you're saying that the end your your get you gather the information. From those who pay the income tax. Based on the distribution they got out of the trust. Of the the grant tore trus yes they do not pay any in the number until the non grant toward they pay income tax on the fiduciary return or what they give is a distribution on on on the income of the from that trust so. We're talking about we're talking about two different things to come up with the fourteen million there are approximately twenty one thousand returns that are fiduciary returns wait wait to answer understand for this year. But what I don't understand is how you can come up with forty million dollars on the none grant or trust if they don't if you don't know that they're not a grand total. They is can you tell me that maybe it might be ten percent rather than five. Not just yet no Sir but you but that is a possibility. It's a it's the five percent that we've identified from the decedent's estates we anticipate that an element we were talking about two different things yes Sir Wardlaw will we have what we are receiving income tax on on the fiduciary turns of the complex trusts and the simple trust and we'll have to see if we can identify of the complex trust in the simple trust which are the non included within not the non fortress so what you're telling us is fourteen million. May not be relevant at all. I believe it's certainly relevant but it's we're going to revise the number to make sure it's as accurate as possible based upon the information that we we can review and analyze but are we talking about two different things when we talk about for this year and then the earnings of the earning of the of the of the earning of the trust itself I mean I could earn. Five hundred thousand dollars. In. Only distribute fifteen thousand or twenty thousand to those to have part of the trust or the one who controls is of the truth well the the those so I mean what I'm saying is have the do you know do you have a way to determine for sure what the fiscal impact is almost none rent or trucks we're going to do our absolute best to get the best possible number and that's what we're going to continue to work on but certainly there are some trust that are included in the complex trust the simple trust that we believe are certainly included by this particular bill we wanna make sure that whatever figure that we do in the in the revised fiscal impact is that the most accurate as possible. Thank you Mr chairman thank you Mr thank you Sir. Thank you original questions. President Penzo you close rebuilder. The resolution you have a question on. Well what I would appreciate your we'll do that over and I'll listen. Thank you Mr I just wanted to mmhm clarified Casper might be able to clarify this better but the the non grantor trusts are just a portion of the fiduciary trusts that are and then that amount so I'm anxious to see was that revise number looks like you know in in my mind I'm not a the trust attorney or an accountant so it's you know the these guys know this better not do but to me it seems like if there's not tax advantages for non grant or trust I don't see how there could be too many of them in the State of Arkansas right now so I think the fiscal impact will I'm open it's going to be revised down significantly also wanted to to to. Mention that the fiscal impact does not include revenues that might be increased by having this money funneled back into Arkansas so hopefully they can come up with some numbers on that as well I'm not sure if that can be equated or not but there you were talking about a significant amount of money that could be for lack of better word repatriated back into Arkansas this money you know is being held out of state interests outside of Arkansas and I'd like to see the the the the banks in the trust attorneys in Arkansas benefiting from that money being returned to the states so all all it at Casper close close that he's got some comments yes Sir so if you don't mind so you I've got a Arkansas fiduciary return here in front of me and and just for clarification there are. There's a different boxes that can be checked on on these returns and only two of them deal with non grant or trust and so there's at least eight other types of entities if you will because this isn't just a trust return this is a to do share return that includes probate estates bankruptcy estates only two of these deal with the types of trust that are are subject to this bill and so. You know as much as we appreciate the the data thank hopping on the phone with us earlier today at this point time the revenue impact study it is not accurate and we can't say one way or the other you know how accurate it is and so and and and to cleanse point in in our experience in the firm in dealing with some of our clients or to set up the stress they are setting them up out of state it's very easy to set up a trust outside of the State of Arkansas and considering that there are border states that have no no tax on these types of trust there's really no reason not to do it said be nice to see those assets coming back into the state or or staying here for for the clients that we represent here already in Arkansas. President pens up I know you closing but since when I'll take a motion here you take one more question I think president would has a question. Yes it on the. This borrowing money back in the state that could be invested by these trust or return is that correct yes Sir that's what I'm here yes Sir other words infers I don't know fifty sixty million dollars maybe maybe more than that based on some of the heirs we think it's much more than the answer we would get some pretty big kids live in Arkansas that have money as well as other state yeah so that money would be brought back into could be invested loaned for economic development yes Sir okay thank you so This Is Your the the the what's on the statement could be overshadowed by a potential. Revenue gains. So. Razorbill resent Penzo I appreciate the committee for their time thank you Mr chair and I appreciate the time definitely gave us today okay and thank you and DFA please good because the committees trying to vote on or let out and all that stuff so the send out to all committees Reginald concerning a question. But you might wanna please ma'am. Sturch chairman this is station how soon could we get it statement back from D. F. and I and this I think is incredibly important to get wealth back into Arkansas and I'd like to see us vote on this and kick this one out to the floor soon as possible. Another question if a. It's working Zacks. Zacks and. Yeah we certainly have our small. Okay thank you Sir thank you bye recognizes the importance of this bill so thank you appreciate it thank question cool our thanks thank you guys. All right to the we run long house bill ten thirty for somebody you want to run your bill Sir. Members to be next to bills will be allowed to be let out to the Committee so chooses to do that. Mr chairman invite Mr instead with an absolutely house bill ten thirty four members. That would be ended. Mr chairman representative Howard baby presenting a house bill ten thirty four to the members of the committee ten thirty four you should have the impact statement it's a short bill but it does a lot there's quite a bit on the first page of the basic changes I would encourage you to read on the back the legal analysis. And the need for for this bill I think it kind of sheds light on on all the need for the bill. but house bill ten thirty four to amend the exceptions to the prohibition against the disclosure of taxpayer information and to designate the secretary of the department of far finance administration as the official custodian of certain certain records. The bill make a couple changes to the confidentiality statutes to protect taxpayer records currently under the rules of civil procedure attorneys can issue subpoenas this bill will clarify the disclosure of tax information is limited to disclosure compelled by judges the bill also allow the department to comply with subpoenas from the attorney general's office the bill allow the department to disclose information when is necessary and judicial proceedings for the collection of tax delinquency and the bill also authorizes limited disclosure to workforce services for purposes of of P. U. A. assistance are pandemic unemployment assistance eligibility. Love Me and the lauded designate the secretary of DFAT S. the custodian of motor vehicle and driver services records and there's no revenue impact like I said it's a little short bill but it does a lot and I think you know read the legal analysis it will shed light on the need for all these changes and with that if you if you have specific questions I will defer to the experts I would do the same thing Sir. Paul my my first question is is there something going on if a behind the scenes right now is our lawsuit legal action or something that has made this action come to life. Thank you Mr Paul Gary with D. F. eight there is not a a lawsuit that's making this come to life but what there is that goes on on a daily basis with DFA is that we receive subpoenas from law enforcement from. civil attorneys for taxpayer information we also have on going matters where DFA is a party and we have to maintain the confidentiality of the taxpayer's information within that proceeding also there is the the COVID nineteen pandemic that arose in two thousand and twenty and there were some limitations in our law that allowed is to or prohibited us from releasing information to the Division of work for services for the new pandemic unemployment Program that was a part of the federal legislation to address COVID nineteen so but I'd be happy to walk through each individual change that we're contemplating in this proposed legislation and as well as answer any additional questions my second question business interfere with the new taxpayer fairness commission whatsoever it Mr chairman it does not interfere whatsoever but I think it also it content it contemplates a correcting an issue that we currently had but it really wasn't issue but would begin an issue once the tax appeals commission becomes becomes law I understand already passed both houses and awaiting the governor's signature but what this bill does as represent Beatty mention if there is a proceeding under the Arkansas Tax procedure act it will authorize DFA to share confidential information with the body that's deciding that proceeding right now it's the office of hearings and appeals which with which is within the office of I'm sorry within DFA under management services once it gets transitioned over to the department of the inspector general those will continue to be provisions and proceedings under the tax procedure act and this bill would specifically authorize that we can release information with regard to a hearing or proceeding under the tax procedure act which will be as of one one of twenty three over at the inspector general under the tax appeals commission. Mosimann questions. All right anybody I speak against a bill for the bill. President bedding clothes we rebels are closed and would offer motion the. I'm close Mr chairman offer motion do pass okay members have a motion to pass any debate on the motion all in favor say aye opposed registry passed bill. All right let's bill member's house bill ten thirty nine in this bill is good to run also with members so chooses let it out. Bill ten thirty nine. Thank you Mr chairman I'm also less Mr hearing to sit here and they could explain this bill house bill ten thirty nine of. It is a This bill does that defines the word employer to require another state employer who employees perform services in the State of Arkansas to deduct without income tax of Arkansas employees will have I will have Mr VOL here let him explain that. Of all of the thank you Mr chair and I think a representative for assisting with the sponsoring of this legislation what we currently have in Arkansas who is it an employer for purposes of of withholding tax it requires the employer to be you'll engage in business within the state of Arkansas but was we know right now we have companies that have employees within Arkansas that have no business operations here and so at this point there's no legal obligation for that employee at a state employer to withhold Arkansas income tax for that employee so what does that I'm employee do it he can go to in in this his employer say I'd like you to register for withholding account with the state of Arkansas and withhold from my income taxes if the employer is unwilling to do so then the employee would be required to make estimated tax payments to the state of Arkansas so that with this bill would would say is that if you are an employer and you have the control of paying wages to Arkansas or workers Arkansas residents you'll also have the obligation to withhold income tax Arkansas income taxes on behalf of your employee. There I would note that there are we did a study about we're Arkansas is in the country we're we're in the minority on the way our law works they're only a look proximately eight or nine states that are doing what Arkansas does the overwhelming majority thirty one states are doing exactly what this bill does And and make sure that our Arkansas workers that are have an employer that's bayside outside the State of Arkansas that the employer is required to withhold income tax for Arkansas on their wages so that they don't have to do estimated payments throughout the quarterly estimated payments throughout the year okay thank farmers any questions. It bothers no controversy behind this thing or nothing like that right no Sir not at all I mean that I think that this is just when we enacted or withholding law many many decades ago our work force was a lot. generally you you had Arkansas employer that when you went to work for that employer had Arkansas business ongoing within our within our borders but they now people are with the automobile and of being able to travel and and work it's not uncommon for several employees within Arkansas to have an employer that has no actual business within our state so this is really just trying to address the needs of those employees that are within Arkansas that their employer does not have a legal requirement to withhold income taxes the employee has a legal requirement to pay income taxes on their income but there is no requirement for the employer to withhold at the employers based outside the State and has no business operations here thank you many questions. Anybody notice against the bill for the bill or some million close rebuilder. I am to make a motion for your bill I do pass a motion do pass any debate members all in favor say aye. Opposed regulation a pastor bill. All right members here's what we're going to. Thank you at rizin Lane Jean and Jack Fortner for request for second construct of Thursday morning right now we will best represent for an advance for to have some you know y'all's top four picks I think I've received for not know what represent foreigners receives others three so we've got seven selects thirteen peoples out there is not I'm not received so that but I like to have is not selling correlating because Thursday morning we're going to meet nine thirty mac building up the room and to go over what this committee would like to put out recommend to leadership to put out yes ma'am. Question. It's a little bit difficult. The first four. If they don't I don't know what he's micro please ma'am because we were mentioning that a lot or what when everybody to sell or the sorry sorry sorry just as a new B. I just need some guidance a little bit about how to determine how much money we're spending and how I mean that depends on. What I choose as my top four depends on how much management as for your question but you know we're we're dissipating Thursday we're going to run the search tax which is revenue neutral Russian Pitsch running his bill as I think the impact what nine million the first year things like that I guess nine thirteen online. J.. So so anyway there's a fiscal impact what I tell everybody is don't worry about the money part right now because what we'll do is Lottie's tax cuts tax credits tax deductions we can actually come in and ask the bill sponsor okay listen working with the cat if you want to be included the revenue tax committee Lasher bill to your operating outside of the scope of what would be really put in put out. And so we'll just go back and ask a bill sponsor to scale back so I mean the ones I have will probably blow us all away through the twenty five million dollar cap work with right now but it won't you know something I have that everybody else agrees on a we all agree on the same thing member asked bill sponsor to scale back. Yesterday at represent Fortner. Thank you chairman what I would suggest to you all just make it like Christmas picked the for you want and don't look at the money. And then we get there we'll work that out okay District forty one don't look at the price it's just like Christmas. We don't always get what we want but we got asked. It is. So anyway I'm out of your life I really like those tonight anyway possible because I know you know like to we're going to committee Thursday morning like to have correlated and and and then put him out and let's discuss some and kind of see where we are we're thank you can mind you know we saw today that I thank representative pens Whitaker to good bill that you know we're not beers more these bills so I mean we'll just adjust we'll just keep adjusting but Mr mayor by will be part of the discussions on on what I can do that is if you guys give us what your PicsArt or we can kind of correlate for Thursday morning so. Any other questions. Okay so just know that Thursday afternoon will be run on the server tax bill and represents car a car tax bill nine point five for the first. Phase in a twenty five twenty eight million twenty okay so nine point five on the first year so it leaves fourteen million or so that we plan with their if he gets out I mean I'm I'm not assuming one you know it's just the committees will little doubt not mine so I'm assuming it's going to come out but but who knows you know so anyway we're gonna run those two bills for sure and there's only a couple other bills or run out schedule front of me but no the bill on the agenda The nine thirty Thursday morning macaroon B. that will be discussing the the numbers that we have the bills that we have and if somebody don't send a man I'm sorry not okay okay. You know I don't know you know so like devils correlated with them are any questions. But not thirty. What we send in we're still gonna have debate over discussion and have we stormed the that may come out those top four or it may be different in a absolutely because we're going to what we're going to is in a public meeting Thursday morning absolutely absolutely not I'm assuming my buddy Michael that lines going to be there Thursday morning as well to report on this so so we're not starting any of a lot of a lot laws and I want to committee to know that you're part of the process because I've heard some got back to me that some people are saying well we're not really part of the process but really are part of the process and we want everybody's voices be heard here all right. All right with that no other questions manager.