ALC-Administrative Rules

All right we have no reports of the executive subcommittee responsible move on to the next agenda item which is going to be. I don't see. And if we get our record culture Arkansas livestock and poultry commission please to the table and Gemma Joe would please introduce yourself for the record we'll start with one a the repeal of the disbursement of state funds for fairs and livestock shows. Forty. Patrick feels part of our culture Director lost on hold. Okay yes would just borderline he told Mike so we can hear please wait hajj chief counsel for the department. Okay let's go ahead and start with the. With a the repeal the disbursement of state funds for fairs and livestock please. Yes Sir ACT seven hundred of this past legislative session are repealed the law on the way that fares had historically been funded and just established a grant program within the department of agriculture and so we're just repealing the rule that had been promulgated under the old statutes. Senator hills this one you want to ask questions if you would like to please. Senate hill you're recognized. They would open a little color on some for my understanding whenever we pass this this bill back during the session that all this was going to do is combine two phones. Into one fund. For the for the district fair why did so many other district fairs what what happened to their funding. I'm sorry the not quite following Centerville what the there is a two separate funding mechanisms one is what those judicially called premium funds that's just a straight line funding for fares to use and then there's a construction for construction funds by annual so it's every two years the premium a construct the premium funds is for every. The the two what combined at this time. And they weren't but they are now they were going to at this time correct. Up. Is the grant program going to be. I'm not sure about that. Okay well I'd like to hold this and if we can find out. Okay let me I ask questions the. There's meeting down hot springs two three months ago and trying to pay for their there was a subject of discussion each one affairs was gonna get thirty thousand for their. Local I'll call local fair and then their district fair was also supposed to get thirty thousand if I remember right is that is that correct yes Sir I think we're talking about two separate items okay those are two separate bills one of the bill that I think we're referring to is the two point two points or two point five million dollars I'm sorry to a quarter million dollars funded for the seventy three fairs the county fairs and the district fair. That money was addressed yesterday and that I think is going to go forward bill depends on Friday of course but that that is a separate issue with this bill this is just considering a fair funding that's normal for funding that thirty thousand dollars is just a one time deal that's to recover losses during the the twenty twenty year during covert when all the fares are shut down right it's just recoup losses and maybe shall the confusion is that that money is was originally thought to be able to come out of the secure funder the rescue money but that's was determined not to and so now through what was done yesterday I think compere or one of its committees that money is now going to flow but it's gonna come out of a different pot so they will be made whole for what was said in the committee meeting back in up to three months go down hot springs is that S. as a correct that's right all right and just for further clarification if I may Mister chairman all this rule does since the the law that this rule was based upon was repealed we know longer have statutory authority for this rule and so that's why we're simply repealing this rule all right we're gonna go back to center hill and then we'll go representative Dotson center hill okay what from from what you said bill the with bass I'm calling one time money which was approved after the thirty thousand dollars. What we gonna do going forward for the district fair. Although I'm only if let's just call nine I love Arkansas. Okay they sent me an email saying they were going to have the money because of this call for this bill that was passed. Don't cut their funds back that they could not help their district parent time look. So what can come tell me tell me what's going on there the law itself did not exclude district fairs or FFA four H. rodeo high school rodeo that's all still not language is still in the bill appropriations that changed how the figures were funded those district fairs were removed from appropriation bill so it only accounted for the district of the county fairs and certain than and two of the bill Arkansas Oklahoma county district fair was still included in that four states and the state for and it's the other the other two districts were taken out of operation okay so how these folks get their money. I'm not sure of this point we are making efforts right now to make sure that those districts will be funded in the following year I just like to have in the past so we are making efforts right now make sure those that appropriation goes back to where it was before because do you understand that magnificence yes economics absolutely economics out of it for Pablo of Arkansas yes Sir now I'm I want to stress time of Arkansas and we're taking money away from their economy. Yes I don't think that's right. No I I agree that money is we are making plans to get that refund. What about Jonesboro. They're District Fair also so how how's this going to affect them our baseball. It will most ever fair up to this point District Fair is continuing on they've got funding from local of grant monies so every fair except for the one in the north central area will be going for this year so they were able to obtain of some local funded. Okay thank you. All right represent Wardlaw you're let up you want back in the queue are you good. Represent Wardlaw you're recognized. Try it again you know my Senator Irvin. Just hi I am right here the north central fair is not you said have they given you a detailed accounting of their finances. Yes ma'am I met with them the with the last few months and due to attendance and funding issues they did decide to close there is some other district fairs and private fares that are going on in that area that showed more interest of the Arkansas use expo is a big fair that that goes to there was some debate on whether to move that district fair and then they just decided not to have the ferry which. So that was a collective decision by the board by the board yes ma'am okay and and and the funding is that they just didn't have the funding or Davis also decided to do it based on attendance it was collaboration of both what happens is that the effort and the counties around the area just like services the it was a combination of funding in attendance okay thank you any interest. All right represent Vaught. Thank you thank you Mr chair I would like for us to hold this for Friday and have a full discussion with a L. C. on Friday on this if possible thank you okay. Ninety ask your question just putting context so. This year they're going to get the thirty thousand both the local and the district that's for the ones that opted to have the fair is that correct so as the dollar amount that we requested. Determined by the number that are actually having a fair this year yes Sir okay and then the second thing is what I hear being said is there may be some tweaks to this that needs to be made and that may be done in the next legislative session or the next opportunity in my. Rechten here in that are that is correct and again like This bill or this rule we're presenting today is obsolete from the bill itself that's why we're requesting the rich repeal of this rule okay it doesn't have anything to do with the law itself is just repealing this current rule so that we can go forward because there's a lot of restraints in this a rule and we would like to take some of those out as a there is Under the current rule right now for is required to to audits we're restricting how they can have affairs restriction how they can use their money if this rule stays in play then they money can only be used premium funds is going to be used for construction structural funds so what we're trying to do with this rule is actually take all those constraints out and minimize the of the regulations as far as a control that the state has of this county fairs okay all right any other discussion. Represent Vaught would you state your motion please. Thank you Mr chairman a motion that we hold this till Friday for full discussion with a LC yes Moshi a second. Get motion sick a discussion to the motion all favor say aye. Supposed. Okay we'll hold it over to full discussion for LC on Friday and you might get with the members of had some questions day and might help move things along Friday if you can please your all right let's talk about garbage B.. Yes thank you Mr chairman this is a rule that we brought over here last year there were questions about it so we took it back to the livestock and poultry commission made some changes to address the questions that the committee had about it specifically the the old the rule that we propose last year prohibited the feeding of a vegetative material garbage should that was vegetative material to swine and we we took that out of the rule so what this rule prohibits is the feeding of meat or meat by products this one. and as you can see from the summer that we proposed the African swine fever has been linked to the feeding of those things to swine and we're trying to prohibit that a disease from getting into our country. And also the law on the disposal of poultry carcasses was changed during the last legislative session so you can no longer process older carcasses to feed to swine and that also necessitated a change in the world. Okay got questions representative who said in a representative Wardlaw. A way that. But like but the meticulous Board represent us and put stuff back on represent Wardlaw usually number there's. Thank you Mr your swap seats early. So I appreciate you trying to accommodate what we ask for in the last meeting up I was one of the members and ask for that vegetable feeding but it looks like you increase the quarantine time now fifteen days if they participate in this can you explain why that was done yes other no that's not a school that's for meat products okay so vegetables are not into the increase quarantine absolutely not okay thank you thank you Mr it representative Dotson. Thank you Mr so I mean I. Again I have echo representative Wardlaw and appreciate you taking this back and look at it again I did notice there was no public comment period I mean there's a public comment period but no public hearing was held and I think if I recall you would ask you to reach out and try to make sure that the the producers and restaurants in various things had were fully aware of this and had opportunity to comment But at I just was curious if if you've gotten any feedback if you'd actually reached out to them what that response was like what that outreach look like and then secondarily It was my understanding that the main reason for this rule change was the African swine fever which if I recall you stated last time you're so go that there wasn't really any instances to speak of in Arkansas it wasn't a big problem here so we were trying to create a solution for a nonexistent problem have we seen a big uptick in the last since that time very we're we're here so down the road yes we of for your first question we have reached out reached out to industry reached out to as many folks as we could there was no comment during that period but we did put as many resources resources out as we could to get something feedback we just did not getting that point as far as the impact for the state we have not issued or hat to my knowledge and several years we have not issue permits other is feeding that is going all there's collection at that restaurants and and how schools of my inspectors have gone out and visited with of some local schools and were where the garbage went to and visited with them so with that we know that that activity is going on and we do know that the spread of the the particular virus African swine fever is potentially spread through the garbage Take an example in China that was understood as the first signs of spread of feeding scraps two of those of domestic calls in the area. Your own in the wild hogs and that's how ridiculous for it we're where is it now currently right now for the first time in forty years is gotten to of our continent and Dominican Republic and of which is just a few miles out west a hundred miles away from a poor Rico eleven of eighty thirty two provinces or affected in that country right now it borders Haiti we believe that that whole island is affected Haiti is not reported at this time uh but we do believe that there's cases and so that's all been within the last year since the last time this rely twenty eighth is when the USDA report. As it currently stands any The virus itself if it hits the the US Connell US or the territories there could be a potential sitting too are shut down so that means currently right now for Rico if it is affected and founded for Rico it could essentially cuts are shut the continental US down for seven two hours no movement whatsoever yeah thank you. Representative Richard. Sorry. Thank you. Thank you Mr on the inclusion of poultry carcasses can can the swine disease also be passed through or carcasses register preventive measures are specific disease that the. In effect caused by eating. Those carcasses it's both preventive and a potential spread as well we know that those that feed of file parks is also food garbage in mixture but it is a precautionary any kind of meat carcass or meat protein has potential care of ours I thank you thank you Mr. All right members any other questions. All right then without objection this a rule will be considered reviewed and passed out of here all right. Go on to the next good subject disposal of large animals. Thank you Mr chairman currently live stockholder commission has to rules on disposal of animal carcasses there's one for disposal large animals and one for disposal older carcasses were just simply combining those two rules and also updating it to reflect the change that was made during this past legislative session which prohibits The cooking of poultry carcasses for swine feed. That's all it does okay represent Vaught. Thank you Mr chair and so I was sitting here looking at this can you give me have the enforcement of this will work of trying to pull up my dogs at the same time to see. Will be based on it left it currently is right now complaints UP I we have twenty eight inspectors throughout the state that will act on the account call that comes in with those particular of complaints based okay and can you tell me what the funds will be. it's the kind of a matrix or a At first start as a warning letter and then it will go into the ministry of penalties and then of actually all to the commission for a public hearing before here and can you tell me about the freezing and the transporting of the file animals. And how that will work. Man the same section. In what will guards I think you said something about the freak that they can be froze but nothing else about the transportation can you explain that to me please we just wanna make sure that when they're frozen that they're in a contained sealed containment before they move from one project to the next and then just notification of that we do know that some companies DO freezing it's it's becoming a of. A not it is not as large group practices it once was but we still allow that practice to occur okay and then can you tell me the heat if there are incinerating what that he would have to be up to. I don't believe that specifies a list you on those floors incineration but it has to be reduced to ash has to be reduced to ash okay thank you Mr Hookham Senator rush. Thank you can you on the large animal carcasses can you tell me Landowners currently disposing of large animals without the. Violation without bothering neighbors It there's not a complaint as you mention is there anything in the rules is that going to change. Now not currently no Sir thank you thank you Mr. Represent Eubanks. Thank you Mr chair of. Over here. The you just said on the transportation of the frozen up Shall carcasses they had been sealed container yes Sir. What the finest sealed container just or container that prevents leakage okay well the way they've done it in the past in my area it was they had dump trailers that came by and they they they don't the freezers and there and then they transported it to the rendering plant so would that be classified as a sealed container. there is a lot like say loans there's not any leakage from that that unit and most of those units or the bird should be frozen solid if unit is working correctly and that should allow them to get time to the rendering plant but yes it did it should not have any leakage from a from the either the container or the truck itself. The top of these trailers is not seal I'm now the the trailers a user same ones that they used to transport Buy products from the render at from the. Processing plants to the rendering plant so I mean that well is that the trailers are sealed where they can't leak that's but they don't have a top on them they don't have to have a talk okay or not long as the fluid or any kind of discharges leave okay yeah representive that of that provision was in the previous rule and so there's no change okay I was allowed under the previous rules okay. Thank you the representative Eubanks I'm I know of don't try to manufacture that has parts that go on those if you are interested in learning more about. The public thank representative these phone information. So bottom line is large enough on one of these trucks and blood and stuff not come out of the back of it were okay you're good okay. All right any other questions or public service announcements. Without objection is rules reviewed and approved thank you general. All right next right to us see to Department culture well water construction commission this is to a supervision rule found on page seven of your packet members and. You get the agency to come to the table in English also for the record please. One jim if you all would please name and title for the record please. Can you hear me yes yes good morning my name is Michael Bynum attorney for the Arkansas department of agriculture. My name is jim by troll on the ground war secretary supervisor for natural resources division of the department of agriculture okay your role in president rule please. Thank you Mr chair so of this rule was well to start Arkansas statute requires anyone who is involved in constructing a water well or repairing or altering water well has to have a license with the Arkansas water well construction commission this rule requires that a licensee or their apprentice must be physically present at the work site while work is being performed. Okay. What drove the rule change of I did see was legislation soldier from with young within yourselves. Yes Mister chair that the having a licensee or apprentice physically present on site is on the whole industry practice for water well constructors the commission wanted to embody that in the rule and make it a requirement. Had there been previous problems at. Drove the rule changers are just something all trying to do to enhance it there've been a couple instances where inspectors have arrived on site and there hasn't been a licensee or an apprentice president and so that caused some concern for the commission and they wanted to make sure that that was addressed but it doesn't prevent the individual owner of the property is doing their own work from being able to do that is that correct. This rule wouldn't wouldn't would not address that issue okay all right Senator English. So I guess someone right on over here. When you say a licensee or Prentice so what's the background of the apprentice is that a person who's been there for a week or are they ready to be. Off to get their license or what is theirs what is their status. So they In order to be a printed C. have to be employed with the licensee first and then you have to go and work under the licensee for a period of years before you can apply for your licence and A you know everyone everyone starts as an apprentice at some point one thing to also Good to point out is that the apprentice or choosing a licensee must be within two hours of the worksite at any given time so that there is an issue the prince can notify them and they can be on the site quickly. I'm all for patient programs and the wonderful I'm just kind of questioning so when we say a licensee or apprentice how long does that apprentice have to have been apprenticing before they are qualified to be able to oversee this project I guess that's my only concern is are they almost to getting their applying for there are sitting for the license or or did they just come is there any kind of a qualification in there which probably there isn't but. If you if you allow me just one moment I have it right here in the real. That's the first time I've ever heard you know on a construction project I of like the big building or whatever I seldom had ever heard and that prayer an apprentice could be the overseer of something going on site discount might be a little more understanding of what that apprentice is in. Maybe I can help clarify a little bit there there is no time frame but there is a requirement that the contractor the licensed contractor sends a letter. Verifying that the he or she will Supervise the printer the premise and the prince has the the knowledge to work for the contractor as long as that contractors within two hour connection constant communication must be maintained by Saddam of you know I should call the disservice struck me of that so that is the printer's first day on the job he could be or are we talking about somebody who's been apprenticing for a year or so be able to get there a license. Thank you. Senate Russian. Thank you you know I think I'm. Supporting the rule the the things I look for sometimes. Is a trap that the I don't know enough to ask questions on and what I've said on this is mentioned earlier is one there's no public comment well there's a public comment period there was no. because of code were not. Communicating as well and and sometimes after the fact we find them one thing I think on this just from water well aspect. About some operators in past year may not be there may not be that now Bennett and noble it's been doing this for twenty five thirty years but he's not going to be an apprentice and not going to be certified but he knows more probably than the boss does and you know before as long as he was in communication and long we've got one of these You know any anything can be communicated within that that two are so I'm not against that I just wonder or we're going to correct transaction people here what is the violation is it suspension our read the first noticed in revocation of certificates tell us what to. What penalties. I don't want to do harm to the industry if we're if it's not necessary. Sure so does too first answer the question about what the ramifications are for violation ninety percent of any issues are Our inspectors on cover is settled with a warning or phone call in in terms of what the first action usually is beyond a warning or phone or a phone call or letter will will be a will be an official warning. you know are based on the commission's the record with the commission and from discussing with staff a majority of these instances occur with folks who are are not your who you're referring to folks who have a significant amount of experience it's usually of folks on site to don't have that level of experience. Okay thank you for your help. What kind of follow up follow up on that the what was just said about making a little little more difficult for for someone to get a well or any anything else that applies to is this going to I want to get you on record on this is going to be the first step to make it more difficult and come back with more stringent rules and laws to make someone make it more difficult for someone to put down a whale. Because all the issues we hear about the offer and everything else I wanna make sure with your own record saying that this is not going to make it more difficult in the near future. I guess in in terms of speak on the behalf the department the only thing I can speak to is that we don't want to make it any more difficult for licensees to be able to perform their occupation as and at other than absolutely necessary. So. Maybe I could help clarify that to this the commission and the staff of have always. This is this is not a change to the rules in the effect that we haven't been doing this already this is been going on for twenty years so in other words the the the inspectors when they're out in the field have always abide by this rule already what we were doing here is it's it's legal looked at it and said the wordings probably need to be clarified so there's no new enforcement action or new. Of any kind of aggressive campaign to to change anything it's already been done this way and and the contractors that have been in business for forever they all know even the new ones we we send letters let them know we sent a copy of the rules as they are updated so it's it's not a new it's not anything new as far as the staff is concerned it's it's already been was this is already been done in the past of making sure that there's at least an apprentice or licensed contractor on site project the the the aquifer in the the drinking water for the public but this is more of a clarification legal clarification I thank you that helps. The representative Ladyman. Thank you Mr chair I'm over here I want to talk a little bit about what Senator Rice talked about because. This is an added requirement in law I understand you say they've been doing it but is not required by law so anytime you do that you add a requirement for that person digging that well or that person plan for digging that will and then also. Possibly add cost to that. So it bothered anytime we add a new regulation or requirement and add costs I want to know why are we doing that. In to me it's not acceptable to say well we've been doing it was gonna make it law. we may be known for the wrong reasons we may be doing it just because we've been doing it so my question is what what are the issues in other words what harm is being caused by not having that certified person or premise on site. Or within two hour drive. A what what what's the problem here I mean are we contaminating the aquifer are we putting wheels that don't work what are the issues that you've seen that we have to fix by adding a regulation. Yeah I'm yes and yes the to both those we potential there is to contain the the offering the potential there is for someone who's not familiar with the the practices of water well drilling to install improperly install a will for a domestic well for someone to drinking water so we're trying to protect them it it's like I mentioned is already been done that there is always the contractor doesn't want someone working for them and installing something for them that they don't have any knowledge of so they're they're they're already in the apprentice program so it's there's not really a change there so we're we are trying to protect the aquifer and we're trying to protect the public but then again it's it's been done it's always how it has been done so. We rarely see a case where there is excessive settlement or improper construction where there has been an apprentice or a licensed contractor with the state obviously some of the problems we run across the very rare one every couple three years since I've been doing this it's been an on licensed road driller coming across the state line. Related domestic well for someone improperly doing it and then causing harm to the to the system. So follows. So if I'm a former northeast Arkansas big rice farmer and I want to do well is this going to cost me more money. Not at all. Okay thank you. Representative right. Thank you thank you Mr Sir would this cover over here we'll discover like if someone was digging away all for their own personal home or right for irrigation of their yards or anything like that how far would with disco. This rule doesn't address that all they're still in the rules and regulations that a landowner property owner has the right to drill a well on their own property they this doesn't change that. Rocca questions by you the This is whether it's the well is being dug on the farm or the well is being dug in the back to the farmhouse for drinking water applies to any and all type wheels that are their drill for purposes of we're talking about water run to talk about oil or gas or any of that stuff just water right. The second thing is what if somebody owns well drilling company. And there are employees are not in the apprentice program. Would that hired hand who's not in the apprentice program be afforded the same privileges as the apprentice as long as they're within the the owner of well companies within two hours are available by phone. The kids this is is not applying to apprentices and the owner of the company only is that who this rule applies to. Yes Mister chair so with the rules stating is that one of two people have to be on site either the licensee of or the apprentice and and then if the apprentice is on site. The operator the licensee has to be within a two hour drive of the worksite. Okay so. So now the owner of the well company is going to have to have their employees. B. impresses if that person has to leave that job site for any reason and leave he can't leave that job site along with a hired hand maybe that he's had for five or six years to do anything in case such specter shows up that's gonna put him in violation is my interpreting that correctly with this the sole. Well the only has to be one apprentice and us there doesn't have to be an apprentice or or licensee there if they're not actively engaged in in drilling the well or constructing the well and if they're doing other things not related to it they don't have to have a an apprentice or licensee there. What would those other things be because I I know a guy that's in the situation that's why I'm asking questions is he doesn't have apprentice but who girls wells three works on wells he doesn't have an apprentice we're now about to make his hired hand in order for him to operate to ways use the operating is now going to have to put is hired hand in the apprentice. Program or you can be breaking the law by change of this rule my correct on that. Well. Yes if if there if there and if they're engaged in The N. constructing a well there's not an apprentice or licensee there that would that would be a violation of the rule. And and what is it that's driving this rule change have a complaint to be got about this that you feel it's necessary to. Bring this rule change into into play today. A specifically how many and complaints from the public or from the contractors well or from anybody that that it has driven it to the level that we're going to now you've got to have an apprentice on on site where you have to pay the hired hand to use just be hard and being a prize which is going to drive up the cost. Or the owner of the company is going to have to be there I almost wish it was the owner of the company as long as he's within two hours reach of whoever's on the job site. I'd almost rather be that way then and I I agree an apprentice programs but almost rather be that way instead of forced the owner of the well company to have to have an apprentice on the on the job site you see where I'm coming from I do I mean try to I'll try to answer both those questions first is. I would say the ninety five at least percent of the people that are contract in this state have a license a prince they they known the program's been existence for for decades in the they want them to be you know they're hired hand on the site to be in an of a license legal print is is very few we run across so I would say one complaint in the last eighteen months. It's it's it affects very few people it's because they're already doing it so we don't this isn't something that's common we don't my inspectors are not running all over the state I think we had one last year where someone was and they just ran across some while they were out going to do visit contractors I go out and visit the contractors around the state just to let us know we're there to help women and let them know that were you know the rules and regulations requested so while they're out there they may run across one year and and of an active driller uh drilling without a contractor licensed or to print is licensed on site that that is your question it well I mean it it it tells me the number that this is going to affect you can be very minimal is what I. And is this common practice now you're just putting it into rule. That is. Yes Mr all right the represent Lehman. Thank you Mr just curious what's the enforcement here so what if you find that they don't have the certified person is there a fine or what what what's the enforcement it's not in this rule that I see. The statute does allow the commission to assess penalties but you know the most of these that that is that is not our go to most the time it is a phone call to the contractor or letter to the contractor the end then it is for instances of repeated non compliance usually Frances repeated non compliance You know typically then the commission reviews and considers an entrance and all these so you have a step and enforcement is worse if you repeat. Is that right the. Yes I mean that's that's policy that is that is not written into the rule board to the statue for that is that has been the policy of of staff in terms of making its recommendations thank you. Senator Hill. Over here. Yes or no public hearings on on this or anything what what are the Arkansas well dealers association what what's their recommendation or what was our input on this. We did not receive any comments from the well drillers association and I'm not aware that they were reached out to. Would that not have been a good place to start with the essence were no public hearings. I can let you know that we go to as a as a section we go to the Arkansas water well contractors association meeting every year and give an hour long see you and it's all it it covers rules and rags and there's probably not a person in the meeting contract means it's not already doing this and aware of it since it's not a since it's been in the the rules just written different so we go every year we answer questions and so there. They know they know the rules very well and we were concertante Act with them as far as our inspectors making contractor visits that's kind of the regular job to go out and visit even if there's no violation or we don't any calls we we go out and reach out just to let you know we're there to help help them with they've got to register their wells a got a file reports for the water wil construction reports required we didn't see use for that so we go out and give classes if you will to the contractor so there. There were they're well aware of it because they're already doing. Thank. All right members any other questions. Generation. I'm I'm about ready to let this go but I I would feel more comfortable with the discussion we've had I don't is our time line on this the necessary. There's no time line in the sense of statute requires okay and and made this rather than go to next month underscore recommend that we hold us open for Friday only makes contacts in find that you know I I go back to the the idea that You're not here to hurt somebody. But if you got an apprentice there that had run to town to get a feeding. And he's not on site in details board to go ahead that know what they're doing. And and Health you know it may not take map are I know this is that that. And I don't know how many apprentices now I know there's some guys that work on those rigs it don't want any responsibility but they know what to do. And now I dislike to contact people before the final approval on this Friday and Be glad released in bogus native. Are you making a motion to hold it over till next committee meeting Mr. Okay got a motion to hold it till Friday. Got a second any discussion. All favor say aye. A post. Okay we'll be here Friday thank you. All right next on the agenda is department energy environmental liquefied petroleum gas board if we get you all and we're on page eight members of your hand up. If you German would. Introduce yourself name and title for the record please and who you're with. Good morning my name is Shane Korean chief counsel for the department of energy and environment. Have also the director of the liquid and gas board. And shall we go in present rule thank you up for here with some amendments the basically are attempting to do for different things to the existing LP gas rules first of all one of the changes deals with the fit first fit for service plate the way the current rules free right now at this plate falls off the tank the tank is actually an eligible for re servicing so this fit for purpose tag would be used for certain agricultural purposes only but basically would allow process where someone can do an inspection and put the tank back into to use for agricultural purposes the second thing is and I know that the board and and director fails or worked with with some of you in particular on this one this authorize the transfer of LP gas directly from a real color to a cargo tank under certain conditions and most of the surrounding states in Arkansas already allow this this would allow a safe and efficient way of doing that for a period of time which would improve product getting into the state we have winter weather events or other shortage needs the third item deals with replacing valves on certain larger tanks there fifteen years or older I think specifically forty pounds of LP gas or more when you replace that bail instead of replacing just the piece of the about the rule requires you to actually change the entire bill itself that is basically a common industry practice they have worked with the association of the healthy dealers and other no objection to that the fourth one is just cleaning up some language incorrect references to the current NFPA which the national fire protection association standards and have Director files here for any technical questions we appreciate your time in your review of these changes this morning. Members have any questions. Just because you may get out here forget done here okay constituent that day four U. S. states found a buried LP tank. Who can I tell him to get hold of to figure out what to do with that thing because I think it still has gas Senate bill has some product in it yes yes Sir they can they can get a hold of the agency and the we can advise on what to do okay that's likely to care okay thank you. All right members have any questions. Without objection this rules reviewed and approved thank you all for being here today Department health. Please. Rules are on page ten page eleven. Good morning thank you Mr chair members of the committee on Larson I'm general counsel for the department of health. Charles Manson thirty department of health. We appreciate your time this morning we have to rules to present to you at the first being the rules pertaining to the cancer registry the amendments to the rule implement ACT three forty five of twenty twenty one sponsored by representative Ladyman there was a friendly amendment by representative Payton which added the definition of qualified researcher we incorporated AT ACT three forty five into our rules for the cancer registry to speed along the process to provide information and surveillance data to qualified researchers we had a public hearing on the proposed rule on August eleventh in a public comment period we receive no public comments there will be no financial impact to this rule and we have the authority to implement this rule under par title twenty and we're happy to take any questions. Members have any questions. All right then it's going to be without objection this rule is reviewed and approved. And. Lead based paint. Thank you Mr chair the next rule were presented today are rules pertaining to lead based paint activities these proposed amendments to our rules at change the clearance levels for lead in death to meet industry standards in December of twenty twenty the EPA announced a new action to better protect American children from the dangers of lead this will add change the clearance level and reduce lead dust related risks to children in pre nineteen seventy eight homes and child care facilities where lead abatement activities take place we had a public comment period that expired on Oct August sixth we receive no public comments at there will not be a financial impact to the state on this and we have the authority under title twenty to implement this rule and we're happy to take any questions. How do you how do you guys actually enforces I mean what's real quick the process we were changing the. We're changing the numbers but as far as enforceability and penalties ago with its now how do you get the word out to the contractors in the event they inspected or what however the process works. Senator hammer this is to the training of those that actually do the lead based paint abatement the federal government change the change these the micrograms on when it comes to the amount of lead and so we and we train we present we regulate in the sense that we don't regulate we administer the program when it comes to training lead based paint invaders in Arkansas and so we do that for the for the PA if we did not the pay would do it themselves so that's a that would be an EPA function of of of any kind of issues as to failure to comply with and the EPA regulations this is simply what we do to assist them by training those that actually do lead based paint removals okay thank you any questions for members. Without objection this rule is reviewed and approved. Nor can you give me that email we talked about earlier thank you. All right one to the next one which is far Human Services county operations. And. Name and title for the record please. Thank you Mr Clark what Human Services. Good morning merry Franklin department of Human Services division County operation. First of all we have is our related to newborn eligibility for Medicaid in general newborns who are born to Medicaid eligible mothers are eligible for. Average for the first year of life without regard to any income or household changes the change in this policy makes it clear that newborns born to moms in the unborn category are eligible for this same newborn coverage. We have to take any questions. Would would you just hit that again what whose which populations is affecting. So it affects newborns born to pregnant moms in the unborn category and that category is for non citizens who who would not normally meet eligibility requirements but they they and this they are covered for pregnancy because they meet the income requirements although not to citizenship requirements and their babies when board are eligible for the twelve months of coverage without regard to changes in income and to be clear that the coverage is only for the child only for the child. Right the population does get. But I guess the state in newborns are guaranteed Medicaid coverage for the first year of life regardless of income. Changes they would have first had to qualify for Medicaid in the first place but if they have the increase in their income this is going to allow the baby to receive coverage just a baby for the first year from the point of life for from the point of income change. From the point of births from the point birth okay and what's the what's driving this federal better requirement okay. All right any questions member members. Okay without objection. It's rules reviewed and approved. The second rule we have today is related to how we count the income of a sponsor of a lawfully admitted permanent resident these These. The changes that now to comply with federal guidance they. Someone who is sponsoring a lawfully admitted permanent residence we are allowed to use the same income disregards our resource disregards that we would use for anyone and that we would count the household size according to the manager are as I saw rules whichever set of rules with appropriate for the category where this all lawfully admitted permanent residents may qualify. I'll be happy to take any questions. Members have any questions. Any questions. That objections rules reviewed and approved. Thank you. All right parm Human Services vision medical sciences. Our passion over that members sorry about that. I'm sorry. The lady. Well they were pressured labor passion over. Thank you. They pulled yes yep agency pulled it for now all right one to be. I Mark thank you Mr chairman this is the renewal of our our choices Medicaid waiver this is the our Medicaid waiver that provides coverage for the frail elderly as well as for adults with physical disabilities I believe Mr limits Gander gonna join me for this one Mr. Again Division of aging adult to Meryl Services DHS. J. O. DHS aging you don't ever have. So these these members the Medicaid waivers they last five years and so at the end of each five year term we have to go back and renew them obtains the approval to continue the waiver so that's what we're doing here for the ark forces program we are making a handful of changes to the program one is just in within DHS structure of which for divisions work with the waiver within some rearranging their secondly we are also reflecting the changes we made last year to determine eligibility if your call we made some amends the waiver to make this simpler easier process for beneficiaries who are renewing their eligibility so that rather than require all of them to get in in assessment the only require independent assessment if there were some indication that had to change in the condition and so we're covering those changes continuing that in this renewal also by making changes around the appeal process have made clear that when individual appeals they do continue their benefits while that appeal is pending and then finally we do have a change on the rates you may recall some discussion we have the personal care rate which we increase last year to reflect the minimum wage increase this waiver also covers what's known as attended care services which are essentially the same task and function as personal care and so we're updating that rate so it matches the personal care right and they'll going to affect what CMS approves this waiver renewal it will that be happy to answer any questions. Representative. Dotchin. Thank you Mr chair and maybe I'm just missing it but. What what is the financial impact on. This act is isn't Harley from that increase in that attended care rate. And I can give you the amount set on page twenty two the three point seven million yes Sir yes Sir for current fiscal year is three point seven million in this your and the next fiscal year to be three point nine million in is that is that the. Is that total or is that state federal or state match that's the state match only for total it is twelve thirteen million for the current fiscal year and then thirteen point six million for next fiscal year I including federal side of that. Thank you. Sherri hill. Mister white I think think this one's probably only for you in determining eligibility what provisions. Are there for an individual with the say cognitive yes issues. How are you providing knows or what what we do in for for that how to determine eligibility on. We determine eligibility have the same for individuals across the program we we assess their functional capacity and to be eligible this for the program they had to be known was knows the intermediate level of care I wish means that potentially could be eligible for admission to a nursing home and specifically they have to have need assistance hands on assistance with certain activities of daily living and that could be things like toileting bathing eating where they've got because of either cognitive or physical issues that any that hands on assistance with that and again may want to add to that there's anything I missed. Now I think you did a good job mark thank you. Follows sure how long does it typically take you to get someone assessed. For the sale building. I'm for the ARChoices program the individual's applies to the Division of County operations and there is a dual eligibility that goes from that point they are deemed to both financially eligible and they get to that financial eligibility process they also go through a medical eligibility process In an assessment. That person already be deceived by that time if they're at home by the sales so what what kind of time frame I'm trying to put on the spot here is a look we need to have this up they takes too long I know one individual right now that is called in US paperwork it's been three weeks before since he's heard from anyone with a ninety year old person. Okay yes certainly in it for this program typically you're looking at thirty to forty five days for that process to work for both sides that or send some some move faster than others and sometimes there may be a delay on the financial side of it where the middle has they've yes bank counts against property just take some time to work in the family get all that information back in and get that taken care of in the course of this side would give that assessment schedule so we have this sister go out and look at them if that isn't that we are looking at now to see if there's some ways or we can provide for those situations where you have individual who is in a rehab facility and is needing that placement hello in years past we've had an opportunity for providers to do with those provisional plan or immediately start services the difficulty with that has been the provider is if risk financially if the individuals not occurred and so generally seen providers have been reluctant to to use that option and so we are we are trying to look at see there other options within a Medicaid waiver we're we can provide some ability to help folks get on work quickly and that type circumstance. Thank you I do think we need to speed that up some from you know thirty forty five days could be detrimental yes. The who does the initial assessment. When the new individual applies then it's our contractor does the independence estimate for that individual determined they meet the functional capacity for individuals who are on the program our our nurses employed by us. Visit with them and make an initial determination of has there been a change condition or not. But who does the assessment is that optima route it's often is what is our current vendor okay so the delays to Senator hills question of the delay that it takes in order to get out and to get somebody enrolled in the program and assess to see if they qualify for the program. I make complaints have you gotten or have you got any complaints about the time that just takes opting to get out there and and get the assessment done worst break down that is taken as long as it is. Senator Hammer the most recent information I have is often this being very timely in getting those assessments completed their staffed and they're doing this in a timely manner light Clark said this process is due all there is a medical part of that that's going on as well as the financial so you know that person responds to Optum and schedule that assessment currently they are very timely in getting that is completed and paid out as couple things course we get as much get educated the that all process but that's just one piece of multiple pieces that have to be worked three in order to make that eligible determination us and at this point we don't see any sign that autumn pieces contributing to any delays settling in the Kantakouzenos heirs or we require them to to meet timeliness standards and yes this is miss can indicated this point they're meeting the standards okay and one of the things I noticed well first point is on page twenty two that five dollars and twelve. Which is an increase is at five dollars and twelve cent increase to the fifteen minute unit increments or is that five dollars and twelve cents to the total hourly rate that is a five it's five dollars and fifty five dollars and twelve cents per fifteen minute unit. Okay. And when I when I skip over to the comments section. One of the things. That was pointed out on page twenty four at the bottom. Is about the wage rate increase that is being used to calculate. The new the new. The New amounts are you all use eleven dollars per hour. As the rate to come up to that five dollar and twelve cents per unit increased yes when the personal care rate was calculated of our actuaries they took into account the minimum wage increase so that was kind of one personal care rate which are now copying on this side and the attendant Care rate. But what you're used eleven dollars per hour as the rate to justify the rule change is that correct yes. In in the real world shall know eleven dollars an hour is going to hire anybody in the environment we live in today so how realistic is this rate increase to meet the needs that we're trying to address at when we did the rate there was some cushion in there and so it was not not captain eleven dollars there is no question there to work with to the extent that providers have difficulty hiring with us on the site we can take a renewed look at you know as we as we hear from providers and that's that's been the cause of right all of our rate reviews that were there on a schedule we're we're going forward wondering Review every Medicaid rate at least once every four years but if there's situation that develops such as no the hard situation right now certainly we can take another look at that rate for frequently and and address that as needed all right members about done but there's a couple things want to drill down on the five day help me understand the five dollar and twelve cents per fifteen minute increase which is a twelve percent increase. A what is that turn out to be per dollar per per hour rate. If you're increase of five dollars and twelve cents per unit what is that turn out. In real dollars to be per hour. It is equal to the personal care rate which is the twenty dollars and forty eight cents per hour. Increase it increases of approximately two thirty five an hour over the over the previous rate two dollars thirty five cents increase and how does that compare to the rate increase we've given state to nursing homes and assisted living and other areas they're providing to the overall needs of this population. Well nursing homes assisted living so they and their rate is calculated differently from how it's done here for assisted living there there's some similarity of approach in that when we term the assisted living rate we looked at the cost of labor and looked at the minimum wage increase accounted for that and we'll calculated what's the cost of providing that service so it's different rate study there are some similarities there nursing home is a little different animal in that in nursing homes we don't look directly at the minimum wage increase rather for nursing homes they annually submit costs for students showing their exact cost for providing the services and we use those actual cost to repair right. The other commenters on page twenty five and if I'm interpreting number eight correctly on page twenty five. The. Author of it is being a little bit critical of having to provide services to these individuals but yet the reimbursement doesn't come for the time that they've had to provide services to the individuals in my misinterpreting that right or am I misinterpreting that or is that a correct interpretation. Being given just twelve elevate review the cost of this call with. Senator Hammer concerning the take that question the question is around the issuance of a prior authorization when an individual is found eligible for the waiver ARChoices waiver at that point in time our nurses schedule a person centered service plan visit which then creates and develops a person centered service plan the beneficiary has choice of services that they can receive under ARChoices attendant care respite home delivered meals that person centered service plan is completed the person centered service plan is the authorization for services for beneficiaries we then issue a PA a number that allows that individual to submit a claim in for that claim to be and paid. And so the authorization for services throughout this waiver is that persons are service plan that is signed off on by our nurse as well as that beneficiary that PA number comes later from our administrative staff and we are currently working toward having that turn around time for that PA to be issued to be within forty eight hours we're working we just recently were able to reduce our PA's we had twelve monthly PA's we've reduced that to two PA's FOR six months and our staff or catching up on this and so our turnaround time that we hope to reach for that is forty eight hours so that when they submit that claim they will be paid. But in the meantime are they provide services without get reimbursed because they don't have the PA. They are providing services for the first up to a week currently we're with that's that's where we sit right now but our staff are working diligently and we've added additional staff to get this PAC entered in a timely manner in order to add that there be a delay only if that provider was billing on a daily basis I know just from my experience most providers I've seen typically they believe their weekly or monthly four thousand bill after the fact so in practice I mean there may be some providers have a delay there but I suspect for most providers they would not see a delay because what their normal billing schedule is okay any other questions members. Without objection this rule is reviewed and approved. And see. And for this rule was chairman of a was with Pitman from artificial medical services is going to join me for this. Good morning my name is Elizabeth Pittman director for Division of Medical Services. Okay. Ill go ahead. This is a rule that we we are bringing to you as it at a request of a provider and arsonist anesthetist and sorry I cannot say that for that word. There was a billing issue and manual they were billing and units instead of minutes and that was causing some problems so they brought to our attention and we have made that change to where they now bill in minute increments on their claims and that we I do not believe we received any comments on this role and I'm happy to take any questions. Okay any questions. All right then without to objection this rule is reviewed improved thank you thank you thank members welcome. All right one to. Adam D.. Next item on the agenda is a letter from the Department culture. Arkansas bureau standards regarding status update in accordance with ACT five seventeen of two nineteen got a letter in the packet and if there's no objection will review and filed a letter as a status update. And then our final item on the agenda. Be the first monthly written updates pursuant to act five ninety five the two thousand twenty one these are the agency's updates regarding the status of the rulemaking implementing two to twenty twenty one legislation these monthly updates will be reoccurring item on your agenda is and beginning next month the specific requests for exclusion in your package will be placed on our agenda for review any any questions. Right. All right any questions members. No objections will file this month's updates and we'll schedule the specific requests for exclusion beginning next month's meeting with no other business to come before the committee. We are adjourned.