ALC-Administrative Rules

Morning members and guests in the audience thank you for being here for the rules the measure a rule subcommittee of the LC one remind you that if you're in the audience and you tend to speak for against the bill if you would make your way up to sign the sheet which is up to my right at that little table back there if you will just please make sure that you're signed up to speak for against it will give a few minutes once we pull sheets will want a but we will not allow anybody to add their name to it and so just public record there all right first of all The reports of the set of the executive subcommittee we have no reports from the executive subcommittee this month will move on to next item agenda which you see on your hand out of the reports administrative directives the quarterly reports on ministry directors so if we could get to Wednesday to come up please and we'll get yours. The name and title for a record please. Thank you Mr chairman committee members Lindsey Wallace department of corrections in the chief of staff right when to go ahead I'm I'm here today to present a quarterly report on noon revised administrative and secretarial directives issued during the first quarter of calendar year twenty twenty two I'm I'm going to start the secretarial directives secretarial directive twenty twenty two oh one governing modified in person visitation for COVID nineteen medication this directive was amended to state that visitation will be limited to two visitors from offenders approved visitation list which lifted their previous restriction that the visitation be limited to adult immediate family members and secretarial directive twenty twenty two dash oh two employee grievance procedures procedures excuse me this directive was amended to really clarify and further streamline processes related to the entire department of corrections employee now has five days from the date of a disputed action to submit grievance or complaint forms as opposed to five days from the date of notification receipt of notification we've also added information for an informal complaint process to clarify processes for filing informal complaints that might not rise to the level of an actual grievance as I stated it's mainly just to streamlining further clarify existing procedures and moving on to the administrative directive summary for the Division of correction AT twenty twenty two dash oh one concerning funds and transportation for released inmates. This directive this directive has been updated to state that carriers must bill the Division of correction for tickets based on and make transportation exchange orders or the reservation system at the carrier will send a monthly invoice to eighty C. accounts payable based on what the reservation system said or the transportation exchange order. Eighty twenty twenty two dash oh two concerning tool control this policy governs inmate access to tools within each unit it was updated to state that the unit or the wardens work release supercenter vet center supervisor will designated tool control officer who will be responsible for the operation and management of the tool control program and that they will be authorized to issue specific tools. Eighty twenty twenty two dash oh three concerning inmate panels this directive was updated to add criteria that inmates must meet to be considered for placement on an inmate panel and also to add requirements for notification and approved by the approval of inmate panel trips AT twenty twenty two dash oh four concerning facility programming court ordered tours this is really clarity in cleanup of this policy but it was updated to state that all group towards will be arranged for the communications division the public information office which formerly used to be a portion of the division of corrections and now it is a shared service within the secretary's office twenty twenty two oh five concerning the prison industry enhancement certification program we call that the hi program and the changes that were made were really to the contract that is attached to this policy we expanded the program to the crimes unit and that chain is that change is reflected in the new contract that the tax to this I'm AT twenty twenty two dash oh six the use of inmates and staff homes along with some other clean up to this the administrative directive was updated to add that personnel such as the secretary and the superintendent are eligible to have an assigned inmate to work in their home or on ABC property. ADT eighty twenty twenty two dash oh seven concerning a CSE in CSC operations and procedures this directive was updated to provide incident response procedures that must be followed whenever there is a potential breach or misuse of ace of the A. C. I. see in CSE system by an operator. An eighty twenty twenty two dash oh eight concerning disciplinary court review this eighty was updated to add that a charged inmate must be given at least twenty four hours notice prior to a disciplinary proceeding and then for the division of community correction they do not issue any administrative directives or memos between January first twenty twenty two and March thirty first of twenty twenty two and without a question that concludes my report for this portion any questions from members. Not on here but I have do you have questions have all the facilities allowed chaplain services to resume and worship services yes there. Were there any. Particular religious belief systems that were allowed to meet during covid while others were denied the privilege of being able to meet during services or whether that I'm aware of they were all treated equally to my knowledge yes Sir okay thank you any other questions members. Without objection this report will be reviewed and filed. Proboards yes Sir okay so if I'm I'm also here to present the quarterly report for an administrative directives from the parole board there were nine issue during the first quarter of twenty twenty two that concludes my report any questions members. I think that's it thank you thank you. Next we'll get the depart transportation. A gill Rogers. Good morning Gil Rogers Arkansas public transportation or you'll go head these are just simply changes to the Regulations that we have for a motor carrier division for the movement of oversize and overweight vehicles that identifies what vehicles are oversize in twenty twenty one this body passed legislation passed sponsored by representative Rick Beck raising the maximum height of vehicles in the state of Arkansas on the road ways from thirteen feet six inches to fourteen feet that was with the support of the department and these rules are just in line with that legislative change. The questions from members. The objections of this rule be reviewed approved thank you Mr chairman thank like many thank you all right next up we have part of that culture Arkansas milk stabilization board. And shall would please come in. State your name and title for the record please members there are some handouts to the chairs have authorized to be given out might be looking over those One in favor and one not favor the bill so please be mindful if you don't have a copy of those to hand out Everybody got a. If I need him. Will consumers consider you have them then jim if you all would please name title for the record if you have no in here for push that button on a light red go I'm Colton Jones attorney for the Arkansas department of agriculture. White House chief counsel Arkansas Department of agar. Our way to a thread push it no turn green and red there you go was read as good I'm a Frederick Sullivan the Arkansas milk stabilization chairman more Gemma fell want to proceed. Thank you Mr chairman and members of the committee during the twenty twenty one General Assembly the legislature passed house bill seventeen twenty nine which amended part of the Arkansas milk stabilization board act and requires the board to ensure that Arkansas milk producers receive class one prices for milk utilized or sold as fluid milk in Arkansas from discussions held at board meetings it's been determined that a percentage the percentage of the producers milk in Arkansas used as class one and class one that's the fluid drinking milk it's approximately ninety four ninety five percent while the regional market average is approximately sixty five percent so Arkansas producers. Receive substantially less compensation than they would for the actual utilization of their milk you get paid a higher price for class one milk so instead of getting paid like their milk is used at a ninety five percent class one rate which it is they're getting paid like it's only sixty five percent of their milk is utilized as a class one right because they're met members of federal marketing order seven which includes Arkansas and all or parts of six or seven other states so they take that regional average. A testimony from a that was presented to the agriculture committees during the session and the statements made at the board. Indicates that the money that will be used to implement the law and the law says insure that producers receive class one prices testimony before the agriculture committees and statements made during board meetings when the board was considering this rule indicates that the money that will be used to get producers to those class one prices is money that is and the phrase that was repeatedly used money that is already in the system. So the processor negotiates what they call a premium with a cooperative and they pay the cooperative that amount it is. Part of that premium that is not being passed through from the cooperative to the producers and so the Arkansas law just simply requires that that portion of the premium that will get producers up to the class one price as required by the law that's the money that will be passed through to producers to get them to the point that we can comply with the law and so the rule just simply I'm some implements that the the law simply said the board was to ensure that producers receive class one prices. Well the board doesn't have the authority to issue any licenses that can be revoked if someone doesn't do that they don't have the authority to issue civil penalties if someone fails to comply so the only enforcement mechanism they have is to promulgate a rule so we simply promulgated rule of that. Implemented the law within the very limited authority given to the board under the law so that's what we have Mister chairman. All right members have any questions. Senator Stubblefield yes thank you Mr chairman a first of all is that premium we're talking about that over or premium is paid to other dairy men from other states to bring their milk from let's say Kansas western Texas is that is that paid to them. But not the Arkansas producers. Page. Okay. I'm not sure I understand your question a everybody in the federal milk marketing order seven is paid according to what ever the utilization rate in that area correct but the utilization in that area could be manipulated by all the milk coming from others states in Arkansas since Arkansas only produces forty five percent of class one male. So you can bring me okay from other states and manipulate all that usage or utilization I make it look like Arkansas's is sixty seven seventy percent one actually to only four percent. So are we are we are Arkansas during getting the class the overwater premium the dollar ninety three. That is being paid. To to defy. Buy milk coming from other from milk coming from other states. Right now I've I've if I understand your question correctly they are not getting the class one price according to the utilization of their mail that's correct. That's all I have right now Mr. Okay. Any other questions from members. Senator. Thank you Senator Hickey. Yes Sir I'm maybe I need to hi chart with all this so what we're. Where what I heard you say that during the testimony that is that the money was already in the system so is that was that is that true or other seems like to me either or either the The producers going to pass it on to the consumer. Where's the money coming from. Is is is but who who's at in the end is autumn we're going to get charged for this due to that legislation the cooperative and the producer sells their milk to the processor and in Arkansas the process and we're talking about Highlander the only class one mil processor in state. They are owned by the cooperative highland in negotiates a rate that they pay the cooperative and it it is. It is part of the money that Highland pays to the cooperative which will then need to be passed through to the producers so to get to the answer to your question who's ultimately going to be responsible for it will be the cooperative. Which is Highland. It no that's dairy farmers of America who the cooperative that on Thailand but they're part of it correct. Well. Yes everybody in in Arkansas well not everybody but Arkansas is part of that federal milk marketing order and highland is owned by the cooperative. So the cooperative is there's one is going to pay it. Where do they get their funding from. Word word of those funds for is it through the is it through fees at the producers by a or or what is that it's it's from a negotiated rate that high one pays to the cooperative. How and then all the other producers. So while highlands processor okay in the producers are the dairy farmers. Right. And so the dairy farmers sell their milk to highland island to go shades right to dairy farmers of America Jerry farmers of America being the cooperative for the dairy farmers. Is not passing through a portion that will bring our producers to a class one price so we'll have to be from the. Amount that highland goshi Gates with the cooperative. That will be then forwarded to the dairy farmers. And so with this is how I'm going to be receiving less profit because of it. I mean eight there's more money going to the dairy farmers correct so it's coming out of somebody's pocket when we put it that way. So whose pocket is that coming out of is it coming out of the state's coffers is it coming out of highlands bar pocket or is it coming out to the end user in the yup I mean in the end it's not coming out of state coffers because there's no state money provided for this the way the rule is written alternately it would come out of the cooperatives pocket now depending on what type of premium or or rate of highland and the cooperative negotiate the cooperative could start. Demanding more money from highland and so it could have if in effect be on highland but the way the rule is written it comes from the cooperative. I continue Mr a sum of a vote on this issue or renew a letter of rages run all right so. So in that in that case though. If it was passed on to highland at that point they're either going to have less profit or they're going to have to charge more for their milk correct in the example you just give. That's correct we okay we heard we heard different opinions from highland on that I understand but in the in the and there's there's money coming to somebody's somebody's because the money's coming from somewhere somebody's going to have less profit right so they're it so when they're going to have less profit at that point they're either going to have less profit or they will raise their prices on the on the product that the consumer. is going to charge. If they raise their prices on the on the product to the consumer are they allowed to do that. Or is that some is that negotiated. Through something I don't know about and they can raise their prices okay. So if they raise their prices. The other competitors in Arkansas or the or or the other ones. Are they are they able to still sell at a cheaper price than what Highland with that at that point it could milk being brought in from out of state would not be subject to the Arkansas state law. Okay thank you Sir. Senator Hill. And then state representative Jeanne back to Senator Stubblefield over on the side Senator Hill over here L. O. measure I'm following your chart correctly. DFAT is a cooperative. In DFA owned hi everyone is that correct that's correct so that higher prices staying within the same changes to different entity that's correct so there there's actually no no difference except the money is leaving DFA in going to the farmer. Not a. I believe the cooperative owns fifty percent of Highlander to Cooper's that cooperatives involved and and dairy farmers of America owns I believe it's about fifty percent of sales so actually they they. Pretty much controlling interest of it then. But my next question is is going on with what the Senator Hickey just ask that you know you're being brought in from other states to be sold at a cheaper price than what this could is that correct. If if if this does I am when I say if this causes the price go up really won't be the rule it will be that it's actually the law because all the rule does is just implement the the law so the issue if that occurs would not be with the rule of but you're correct that you know what we heard at first was that retail milk prices would not go up because hilum would still need to compete with milk coming in from other states but in today's prices with the fuel if they can bring as much out of state cheaper I can't see it this should not affect at all the. I agree thank you. Representative Jane. I'm over here to you for right. Of. How much milk in Arkansas what what is percent is federally subsidized. Hi I'm not aware of a federal subsidy there there is none for the the producer or the of the Hi Allen there there's. There used to be years ago. The M. Mr Simon here is a is a dairy farmer he's he doesn't receive any federal subsidy of any other questions is. Of. How much of the Arkansas milk producers go to highland it is any of it go to other states. Like Alabama. Yes yes I know some of it does go to other states you know what the percentage is the. The Bill. Mr Simon indicates there's about four forms out of twenty that go out of state okay and my indication years ago that a lot of our milk came from West Texas and New Mexico to highland or what then was Coleman is that still the practice if what we were informed is that the milk that Highland processes Arkansas milk constitutes less than five percent of what they process okay thank you. Senator Stubblefield you dropped off your back honor. Questions okay Can you tell us what what the freight is especially now that diesel as high as it is what the freight is from. Key West Kansas Colorado border West Texas. And and the reason the reason I asked that question is we've left we've got twenty five there is listed on here there's not twenty five dairies since we met if the milk stabilisation Board few months ago we lost two mortars and I talked to one of those tears yes recently and asked him why he sold out and he said because that DFA had raised the freight so high he could no longer pay it and yet they're paying freight it's five dollars a hundredweight coming from Colorado in West Texas in this dairy farmer live twenty five miles from highland plant in Fort Smith Arkansas now to some this all of this sounds this is this is a perfect example of a large conglomerate. Who's who's very existence came about as a result of thousands of small dairy farmers that. Coops like DFA AMPA are of mid America all these huge coops and and many of them including DFA have an anti trust sheet that you could put on the back of all these papers they've been so too many times for anti trust violations this guy live twenty five miles from Fort Smith he had to sell out because he couldn't afford the freight and yet the trucking trucking mill from Colorado and West Texas in charging five dollars a hundredweight there's eight point seven pounds in a gallon of milk. So would you add that up that's an extra fifty cents a gallon. That there had to pay. So does any of this make sense to you. What this boils down to really is and what it looks like to me because I'm the accounts for forty seven years this is an attempt to squash the small the rest of the small dairy farmers DFA does not warm even mess with the rest of the small dairy farm in Arkansas they had rather by their meal from factory farms within ten fifteen twenty thirty thousand cals put the small dairies out the ones that made their existence possible in the beginning. And I really believe with all my heart that our Kansans had rather by their meal. From a dairy forecast can actually go out and lay on the grass than one whether Dr lauded in sandy an opinion all day long and never see a pastor. That's all I have Mister chairman right now. You got a question in there some like would you agree. Okay any other members. Just a few questions I wanted to get some clarity for my purposes the the dairy farmers in Arkansas. Whose milk is being sold out of state verses that which is being sold in state how are they going to be affected by this rule if at all. The two different. One cell in state once out whether milk going out of state it affected many at all if they're if they're male council out of state the law would not apply to them it's this is for milk utilized or sold in the state of Arkansas okay so if it's sold out of state. The the fee the charges referenced in here the cost is that is going to be of is a dairy farmer that selling their milk in state to an out of state firm going to make more lesser just help me understand how it's going to affect the farmer well it is if it's sold in the state of Arkansas which I mean that that would have to be to highland. and utilized as class one milk it would apply. If I sell it. Correct sell it to an out of state processor the law would not apply. And I'm I'm just saying about like the the the fair practice and all that kind of stuff House that not create a a fair or unfair disadvantage or competition among the farmers as to forcing them to sell their milk out of state because they could make more selling it out of state if I understood what you just said right or my confused at now once the law goes into effect or the rule goes into effect producers that are currently selling their milk out of state may choose to sell their milk in state because they will then receive the additional premium that's provided for in the role right and at this time the way this is written highland will be the one that will have to pay that additional premium is that correct it would be the cooperative that owns highland and Cooper Highlanders on by what cooperative dairy farmers of America I was a not a conflict of interest or that and that's and and maybe it's not an issue at all just trying to get to sort out my mind that you've got you got dairy farmers of America that's owning Highland and they're gonna have to charge at that price back to my back charged him of I'm trying to get my mind around that. Or is that issue at all. I it it's not an issue that the department of agriculture would be able to offer an opinion on okay and then the the last thing at the end of the day the Cooper is going to charge it back to highland and highland either going to have to eat it in their profit margin or they're going to turn around to pass it on to the consumer that'll be their choice whether they do that or not so though either lose it either profit margin or they're going to pass on the consumer might in my thinking right on that well the options are it is one is that the cooperative wouldn't pass it on to highland it would just come out of their profit stay at like you do yes okay correct or it would be passed on to how do you know of another time where the DFA has not pass that on to the producer or pass it on down the line in any other state were they deal with this. Your other states laws are so different you know for example you know some other states have state funds that are involved where the state would pay the additional premium NO other states have licensing fees out of which the premium can be paid to us believe Pennsylvania passed a law that actually put up. Five cent a gallon surcharge on Pennsylvania milk and so they're just a myriad of of ways that other states do it okay that our law doesn't provide for and we as a state on providing the subsidies is that is that correct or not that's correct okay Senator Stubblefield. Thank you Mr. Our when this law was passed. Of Mr Simon. Did you meet with starship in Arkansas milk out of state to to get around this rule. This law. A to my knowledge They didn't immediately but it was a very shortly there after they started shipping Arkansas meal out to keep from having to pay class one prize you. Yes thank you can you give me another example of somewhere in the country especially in the southeast order were DFA has paid dairy farmers more for their mail in order to control what market. As far as. I don't know in in the Georgia area of in order to entice some very large producers to join the cooperative there's a special deals made between dairy farmers of America and that individual producers special deals. And we're talking about a lot of chaos and a lot of large areas yes I will say they were in the neighborhood of ten thousand calendars so these are ten thousand calendars probably more than the twenty three left in the State of Arkansas put together yes Sir okay thank you Mr chairman. All right members any other questions otherwise we're going to speak for against any other questions of these guys right now. Okay hello my maybe stepped aside and we've got a total of five three against three four there to speak for the bill will then come and speak don't ask for those that come up to speak of trying to keep your thoughts condensed into the point make yourself available to ask or answer questions after you get done presenting and if somebody in front of is said what you've already said just come be mindful so we'll get to redundant we still got a pretty long agenda to get through at the end by the end of the morning first off going to speak against is gonna be Kevin crash with Friday law firm Kevin if you would come up please Sir in name and title for the record who you represent please. Thank you thank you Mr chairman my name's Kevin caress I'm a partner in the little rock law firm Friday Eldredge and Clark. For the last year and a half or so of at the privilege of representing dairy farmers of America which people shortened to DFA I got in trouble with my client because I kept calling the D. F. and a which is something you probably use a lot may correct me is DFA. But I want to say first of all I think all of you were given either by email or by hand delivery this morning a letter from my client the FAA along with an attachment which were the public comments that DFA made during the publication of the rules by the milk stabilization board representatives of DFA were at all of the billboards stabilization board meetings and offered input I've had a number of conversations with Mr Hodge the chief counsel for the department of agriculture in these rules went to a variety of changes but let let me start by guests by making a couple of clarifications on what you heard because they might be significant in your minds first of all do you have an A. does not own Highland it is not a one hundred percent owned subsidiary and it is a joint venture with another cooperative or company called prairie farms and highlands interest is twenty five percent so doesn't control it and based on your questions I wanted to make that clarification because that seems fairly significant the issue of DFA and the the rules and this is a where we start and it's pretty it's pretty significant. When Mr Hodge put together a panel to to offer advice to the milk stabilization board he brought in with the help of the University of Arkansas law school to law school professors from Penn state agricultural law and they were very clear that the state does not have the power to regulate what a coop a private entity I can my mind I think of riceland and producers the state does not have the power to regulate what a coop pays its members and that's what we're talking about here most of these dairy farmers Senator Stubblefield speaks well of and should they're they're hard working our Kansans and we want to succeed send the FAA's interest for them to succeed but they're members of the coop and they've agreed to be bound by the terms of those agreements this rule has an section Roman numeral filed a provision that says nothing in this rule shall interfere with what a coop pays its members. Is it can't be any clearer and yet your explanation today from the department of agriculture in response to your questions is that the coop will pay this additional charge so like to unlike states like Pennsylvania or Maine where there's this subsidy by the by the state to help. Provide a premium to provide support for these dairy farmers your your questions are spot on who where is this money coming from and despite the fact the rules say we don't interfere with the co op they're telling you this rule will require the coop to pay the farmer. Ramian. And that's a flawed legal rule. And then the second thing that's at issue here and I've I watched with great interest when you're meeting some months ago about a sports mobile betting in the term of the dormant Commerce Clause came up I was quite interested everybody heard about the dormant Commerce Clause it basically says you can't discriminate against our state interest in favor of in state interest and what's what's happening here is that milk produced and sold in Arkansas. We'll have to be paid a higher price. Then milk produced in Mississippi or other states. Why is that significant this didn't come out when Mr Hodge's team was discussing this but we are what's called a milk deficit state. The number I've heard is that ninety percent of the milk that's consumed in Arkansas has to come from out of state. So what you're saying is we're going to pay in state. We're gonna discriminate in pricing for in state it may be a laudable goal from an economic standpoint it's it's spares right in the face of the dormant Commerce Clause. So while DFA doesn't think this bill applies on its face because it says it doesn't affect coops. We've got been checked milk board and others claiming that this money's gonna come from the coop and we I think find ourselves in a very flawed situation and what could happen is the opposite of the goal of the the bill and that is people stop buying the Arkansas mail. Mr a flag is here from highland so you know I got very confused with the terminology but the processor is the producers the farmer processors highland. Coop sells the farmers mill to Hylan Hylan sells it to a retailer retailer sells it to the consumer so there are a number of places where that premium could be passed on it could be passed on the main highland could eat it it could be passed on to the retailer and the retailer could eat it or the it could be passed on to the consumer the problem with those economics is the retailer can buy their milk out of state that doesn't have that premium so they won't bother milk from highland anymore they'll bite from the competitors of Holland so all of this is to say these rules are terribly flawed and I'm not blaming the depart of agriculture they're put in a very difficult position with what in my judgment was very ill conceived Law and I think it has the laudable purpose we're all I don't know anybody that disagrees with the goal but this is a terribly flawed bill economically and more importantly from my view as a lawyer legally I'll be happy to answer any questions but I'll tell you I'm not an expert on pricing a mill and I have I'll try to answer any questions the best I can well you've got questions it lit up like a Christmas tree so here we go thirty seven representive right. Thank you Mr chairman you know this sixty five percent bigger was kicked around. away from another class one price. One reason is. You mentioned that the fares for actually playing states like Maine and other states a subsidy winds Arkansas not receiving a subsidy also if I said the feds were providing the subsidy I misspoke states are providing subsidies through state funds. This this bill didn't anticipate then call for any state subsidies not federal subsidy no fair correct I'm sorry if I misspoke okay thank you. All right next is representative. Bentley. Thank you chairman Sir can you tell me right now retailers currently sell milk from out of state. you know I wrote that don't have personal knowledge of our under oath I don't think I'd have a basis but is my assumption that they do so do you think as consumers we can go and find milk that much very prices some from seven dollars a gallon the to some this three dollars I was very very depending on what status from a contagious consumers do think consumers saying very price ranges from milk so from all produce from all across the country here in Arkansas now I would assume that's true but I don't know for sure okay and I like George Bush when he was asked what the price of milk was during the campaign I'm not sure. As a consumer I can tell you that's a surely the case the second question is I I don't see anybody from Friday law from when we presented these bills in the house in the Senate where this bill was passed overwhelmingly. US bipartisan lines here in the House and the insurance session. Well actually represented Bentley I was there on zoom but it was as you know it was it was sped through the process fairly quickly. With federal issues me when like every other every other bill that we present we present we file a bill is presented in committees pass on the house floor it's going to the Senate filed I would you not say aye ran like every other bill. Well I just let you be the expert on time and I can tell you I would I watched I watched. And I ran thank you very much. Senator Hill. Other side over here where was the F. DFA at whenever we ran this legislation there was not a single representative for the on any the committee meeting to speak for or against legislation was being run but there were farmers that right will make it there so can you tell me why it becomes a major concern now once it passes while what were they concerned about beforehand. Well I'm not sure that they weren't concerned about it senator I I when I got the call it already passed the house committee and the house and the next day was going to the Senate and the next day I went to the Senate floor so they were concerned about it maybe they were they got to the table too late but they were concerned about it and that as a four day process from what you just said at a minimum. Thank you thank you Sir Hickey. Yes Sir I'm up here yes Sir. Just a just a quick question of course you know the legislation's passed and we're in this process with the rule and basically I think what we're going to be limited to is that is that it conflicts with state to state and federal law or legislative intent in the in is that the process we're at right now I heard you make one statement where you said you thought that I don't know if you said it was illegal when I understand it your opinion but could you point to where you think the the specific legal problems with or with this rule yes Sir as I said the section five Roman number five says it doesn't apply to co ops okay but but the position of the proponents and the the agriculture department is that that in despite that provision that of the coop will have to raise the premium and the what I didn't say server is there's a constitutional provision that prohibits fence state government but from impairing with existing contracts okay is that the state constitution or federal both okay I believe and and what what you're doing is we have the agreements between the co op members and the coop the call for certain things done and you've interfered legislatures interfered with that impaired that contract with this bill and then the Commerce Clause I did mention yes. What you call it something Commerce Clause the dormant the the the data the law professors call of the dormant Commerce Clause for reasons I never understood that okay it It slept for awhile apparently okay anything other than those two those are the two that come to mind okay or actually I guess it's a. Actually three I guess. Okay thank you and I will say Senator you know there's a whole issue that I haven't but my arms round and that is you know this milk pricing is the most complex pricing structure I've dealt with and it comforts me to hear people of the law schools and even Mr Hodge say the same thing because of this federal milk order which is not just a free market it is not it is not a free market is it's affected by this milk order and what people are talking about as a class one is for fluid milk gets blended and then there's a blended price office for cheese and you know non fluid and so that's that's end up being a part of the equation so there have been cases in other states where the question of whether all as if the preempted by the federal the pricing structure but I haven't really looked at. Thank you Sir thank you senator. Let me let me ask you a question for okay to the next person on that federal order you were just talking about the federal milk order does it address pricing or does it does it give direction as far as what can or cannot be included in contractual arrangements. I wish I at I wish I knew the answer that senator I'm I'm confused by that and I've looked at it. there been law professors that have done. Seminars on this I watch them and I've tried to follow it and I'm not sure I know the answer to that okay we're gonna go on to represent hall. I also represent push button it just hang on a second. Thank you you're good thank you my question Mr. Yes for the class one price is there a class one price for the federal milk order. I think there is yes yes and so today you've mentioned Allen has been mentioned by others as well a premium. Is not the premium the class one price the difference between the blended and the class one price is that not the premium that we're speaking out. represent hawk I'm not sure it's that simple. Because of the what's been explained to me and again I'm I'm not the expert on pricing but there there's a whole lot that goes into the pricing and what's paid to the farmer co op member But I I'm I'm not a comfortable I can't answer that specifically I'm sorry. So if all milk that is produced in Arkansas is fluid milk which is class one price. And the bill was written to. Say that dairy producers in Arkansas that produce fluid milk and we know where that milk goes it goes to the processor for fluid milk four to five percent only of milk that is bought in Arkansas is produced in Arkansas and it all goes to fluid build should not those farmers be paid to class one price for fluid milk when there is a federal class one price which is what our build very simply stated. Dairy farmers and Arkansas that produce class one bill should be paid the class one price. You really exceeded my expertise and pricing I would say in the context of a coop though there are issues about the the cost of the operation of the co op. Correct and that includes transportation includes marketing cost I mean it is it is not simple to me and But I understand the hypothetical you're posing and how you're trying to get there about just don't think it's that simple well I believe the solution that the legislature tried to calm two four Arkansas dairy to be produced in Arkansas otherwise we're we will not have a dairy industry and will truck at all in. Of was this very simple solution so my next question to you as a lawyer defending dairy farmers of America. Is this not important to them not just because of what will happen here in Arkansas because of what will happen across the southeast order of states and other states in the country we've mentioned several other states here today does this not impact what other states how they will implement certain laws me I I can't speak for legislators in other states I can tell you from our research this is the first time this has been tried. And I think the reason that it had been done is for the reasons explained the flaws in the in the bill I agree with you your bill was very simple but it took a higher me pages of rules to implement and that's where it gets complex. Much like the the pharmacy bill and the pharmacy benefit managers between the small local pharmacies and the large pharmacies this is very similar to that kind of pricing structure and I thank you for your time today thank you thank you representative that I think the big they're popular the big difference of course is that the farmers are members of the co op the pharmacist or not members of the B. M.'s. Quick question going to the next one. The federal milk order as I understood from the testimony is cave has a price set in it how would that conflict with a state law such as ours that we have set a price in it as well if if it can be done at the federal level why it cannot be done at the state level and not be a conflict of state or federal law. You know center I'm looking here at my handout that. I wanna make sure I've said it right that there's a class one rate I know that the milk order settlement minimum price based on the in use but I don't know that they set the actual prices paid right but Mr flag from highlands probably better equipped to answer those questions okay we're real quick Amagon Senator Irvin but the fact that there is even mention of any kind of price being established in law whether it's federal or state why would that preclude the state from doing what we've done with this bill if the feds can do it at their level and it not be considered a conflict of interest Rick set aside the prize goes to it which put a price tag in a bill. Well it goes back to the two constitutional provisions that I mention you that is the goal would be to to establish a fair price for the for the mail but you have to do it in a way that complies with the constitution. Right center. Thank you I'm I think. I think a lot of folks I've asked the same question and I probably will ask but I think. Again we're at a point where we're looking at the rules and if the rule is in conflict with the legislation passed. And so I'm I guess I need more specifics as to the language in the rule that is in conflict with the language in the legislation. You're asking me well I know I think the rules follow the intent of the statute I think what I heard Senator Hickey say is the role of this body is to determine whether it conflicts with either state law or federal law. And it does if that's party your purview I realize there's I heard you say it heard someone say during the mobile sports betting you're not here to debate policy that got done in those four days that you mention but the if your roof review includes doesn't violate the Commerce Clause or some other constitutional provision state or federal. It we are you a dozen I'm told again This Is coupled here say is that the proponents of this bill ran it by the attorney general's office and they were told it was flawed the AG's office drafted their own bill in in instead of the one that was deemed flawed got past. They can speak for themselves with that's what I was told. Who well so I mean generally if it's in conflict of state law or federal law that's generally brought to court and a judge makes a ruling. That is the ultimate venue for the opponents to take it but I'm I'm again I don't define your role here you I heard Senator Hickey say it includes doesn't conflict with and and then the you mentioned in response to the representative Hawks questions about the complication of the price scene as it relates to the co ops however isn't not necessarily existing with any operation or in the business. I mean yeah our games that's fair senator I think you're right I think one of the you know the let's just say the relationship between Arkansas co op members and DFA is not very good you probably picked up on that yeah I think part of the problem is it's very difficult to understand how the prices derived I've looked at these price sheet so I can understand their frustration. Right so it it it least in my mind a listen I'm simple minded when it comes to numbers but it does seem like it's somewhat complex I understand that it would be complicated for them because any business is complicated when it comes to their pricing and their formula and what's included in that pricing it would be transportation it would be marketing it would be delivery would be you know labor all those different things but that's just a normal role of business and so. In representative Hawks questioning and as it relates to the language of the bill it was said that they were following the federal order of. Clause flying senator and I'm I'm a repeat myself with apologies. The board was presented with objective views of the law from the Penn state agro law professors and not mine. I'm not I'm not objective I'm being paid to be here but I I have ethical obligations only a spouse an opinion that I believe has a basis with those law professor said a state does not have the power to regulate what a coop Pitsch as members that's what you're doing here. Maybe like saying if if you're gonna tell riceland that they have to take money that Anheuser Busch Payton like that's the Highland so they paid and you saying rice and you got to pay more money to the farmers in northeast Arkansas than Southeast Arkansas you don't have the authority. And that's what's happening here and we don't have that authority according to state law on an federal law correct okay can impair contract so in your opinion was there any rule that the Arkansas stable milk stabilization board could pass that would suffice. NO well to comply with your statute no I think the law was flawed okay I've I've said that to the milk board I think they the bill put the milk board in an impossible situation okay thank. Represent Dotson. Thank you Mr chair and. Not not to be the the worst at here but we as you will understand we. We. Basically have this committee here more of a judicial role not necessarily is as much of it legislative role in setting the policy in this but whether or not to determine whether this rule complies with the law or doesn't comply with the law and as you said the only other only other way that we would vote to disapprove this rule would be if it violated Legislative intent which you said it it clearly didn't obviously the legislature overwhelmingly voted for this law so. The law is as long as the statute itself doesn't violate the legislative intent there's no grounds to overturn it the rule on those bases so. If I understood you correctly. You're saying that it violates another section of law not the law that was passed but a different section of law so we have two conflicting laws on the books currently is that what I'm understanding you're saying well if a lawsuit is filed. In in court it would say that you ACT five twenty one. And the resulting rules. Violate federal or state constitutional law. That would be the conflict what with those specific statutes be that it violates the the the the the the lawsuit you would bring would would come up for a judge to decide. Well among among others I mean I want to limit myself but I've said there's constitutional provision that says state government can impair private contract. And then the commerce clause that says you can't discriminate between. As stated in state producers. Do you have a code reference for that in the US constitution I get it to you but I don't have it in the constitution says that yeah okay And you pointed to section five of this rule Cooperatives I think is what it if I'm I'm looking at that when when you ask this question earlier you said that this violated this rule. Some testimony was different than what the rule said testimony earlier today was different than what this rule stated. Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe that. Whatever the rule actually is written as as past is what they would have to comply with were you taken to court to say they're violating their own rules is that not correct well the rules of the rule has inherent inconsistencies because it does say on its face no provision this rule shopper prevent or interfere with any agreement between the call. But then there are other parts in this this came about over time initially it didn't say coops would be paying it it said the processor so Highland. And and then at the next meeting there was an amendment said well either highland can pay the premium. Or Allen can send the information to the coop in the coop can produce can pay it. So the bill has inherent inconsistencies where out where else at in the statute does it conflict with or the the rule rather in this four and a half pages of rule Does a conflict with that sends it says no provision this rule shall prevent or interfere with I mean previous versions were not considering or concerning what's before us well the provision that says It goes I mean it's hard to pick pick pick them out because they're all inter woven with definitions but the definition of dealer includes coop That's a big one because the the obligations to produce reports to the mail board falls on the dealers. All. I'm sorry represent Dotson trying to find the provision talk about the coop in the. Process your pay in. Yeah here's dealer payments of the over market premium made to cooperatives shall be passed through to producer so that's a provision that says the dealer which is the highland we should use the same terms if thank where you're at on that that's Roman numeral. Five section see on the last page five okay. Then it says and Roman numeral six. Section B. it shall be a violation of these rules for the coop to failed to pass through the over market premium impossible to reconcile. Section five section six. Okay I'm gonna re read through that process and I come back in the queue thank you thank you Sir so feel. Thank you Mr witchcraft or you constitutional order. I do practice in that area do you do you know that this bill was was rated very carefully by our AG's office. I was told that they looked at it and said it was flawed but again that's who you was told by somebody in the AG's office by the eight you know miss Crabb your argument here today is the same arguments as PBMs. Made. When we were dealing with the PBMs. That case went to spring court and you know who lost I do. PBMs. We've already had testimony this morning about DFI. Paying extra premiums to Georgia dairy farmers. We were had testimony to that we didn't have testimony has someone say it means not under oath I don't know if it's true or not I doubt they do either. You don't know if it's true or not I don't I don't know enough about money maybe we need to have a J. P. R. meeting starts where people and the chairman of the you know what can you define surcharges witchcraft surcharge would be at a charge in addition to the regular sharks so to tax I would call the tax if it's done a lot of problems defined in Webster's attacks is not a tax in my mind because I went pay DFA a surcharge. I don't know enough about it to insure that. I don't know that whoever said that. How much how much will it cost. DFSA or how much will it cost hi Allen to pay class one prize to the to the twenty three years left in the state of Arkansas you have S. column that I don't know. Mr chairman can we bring one up here. The signed up to speak for against. Okay what do. Let's get everybody signed up to speak for against hold your question and I will bring them up okay. I think I signed up to speak I could tell he's one one to sign a spinster flag. Yeah we've got signed up to speak Senator Stubblefield okay. Good represent Jean. Thank you Mr chairman just want clarity that I ask and in the end you touched on the Attorney General. Of course this law been in effect passed over it over a year ago and the and the rules writing. Did the Billboard anytime acid Attorney General to weigh in not just the verbal but of a to get a opinion of the inconsistencies between this and the federal and state laws that you mentioned. The work the way I would answer that representative Jane is that they had to the AG had representatives at the meetings. Who said he had concerns about the bill. Those concerns were expressed outside of my presence. But but was there ever an official. Requesting the board for the AG on opinion on the not that not that I'm aware of okay thank you. All right members that clears the board for questions of Mr crash anything else Sir. Thank you your honor thank you Mr chairman I appreciate the chance to speak on behalf of my client all right thank you next run have bill hawk a come and speak for the bill. And Mr Aukot you would when you get to the table please state your name and. Identify yourself for the record if you represent yourself or if you're speaking on behalf of a group please Sir. A former. I first want to say that due to the fact that I do not have the skills or the ability to talk like Kevin does okay but to help myself speed it does not have the skills or abilities to milk a cow either okay thank thank you. Before I before I write or review what I wrote I would just first like to tell you something that was eliminated and that is the fact that. Yes it is true DFA only owns twenty five percent of highland. But what wasn't told you which is a very important fact. DFA has the full supply agreement. That the highland has to get all their milk from DFA. Nobody else nobody else can go into those three plants but DFA because they have the full supply agreement. Hello my name is bill Haak I am a forty two year dairyman locate forty two year up milking cows a Derry man located in northwest Arkansas. During can be traced back eight generations in my family. I am currently the jury chair for Arkansas farm bureau. I was a past president for been county farm bureau. My wife and I. Was picked in two thousand nine as farm family of the year for the state of Arkansas. I probably serve also on the been County controversial rations board as well. When I came to Arkansas in nineteen seventy nine the Arkansas license plates probably stated the land of opportunity. And why it was that way I found out real fast with the forty eight inch rainfall. Being able to purchase chicken letter that would make a rock roll grass. And an environment. That you could put cool season grasses warm season grasses and have a nutritionally balanced grasp your cows that they could eat on the ground out there in the field ten months out of the year. With the lord by my side with my wife and I and I through hard work tenacity and a good banker have been able to fulfill the Arkansas slogan. We will be forever thankful for the land of opportunity that was given to us in Arkansas. I always thought that if I did my part of my Derry I assume my dairy coop would do their part in assuming a fair sustainable price for my milk. Legislators. I'm not talking about market trends. Nor my talking about supplying to ban. In my opinion these could be weathered as it during and if you project plan ahead and don't live it entitled life. In talking about getting the price for your I'm talking about getting the price for your bill that we as agreement are owed. The detriment of Arkansas produce less than five percent of total Arkansas consumption. We at one time produced all of Arkansas consumption but through our dairy coops not paying us what we are owed. We are at now at less than five percent. In the nineteen nineties we had over twelve hundred areas in Arkansas and now are down to less than twenty five. Our character call up through the years have taxed us with programs such as the seasonality program make allowances transportation credits and to prove the pulley all designed to to take away money from. US as Arkansas dairyman and help the call ups because of the mismanagement of their Terry funds they receive. You might ask how do they miss manage I'd like to give you one example just to share about of a of the of several of how the coop has mismanaged the funds that they have received from us. In Garden City Kansas they built a two hundred and twenty million dollar power plant without first securing a rail to hold the power to California. When they finally got around to talking to the real company it was discovered that it was impossible for the railroad company to bring the rails to the spot. So because the power plant was already built our Derek Carr coop has to truck to powder to Kansas city and then passed Garden City where the power plant on the rail to take it to California. This is costing us the Derry men because they take it out of my milk check eight million dollars a year. They do this through the detox of our milk checks. It is time that are Corps pay us what we are owed the class one price that you legislation overwhelmingly support is clout is close to the. We are close to the finish line and ask you that you would support it. The ruling was design that the class one price to be taken out of the coops funds not the consumer or the process plants. The court says they don't have the money. But the court has the funds. We have seen them over and over again make special privileges and paid special money two people in Georgia to people in Florida when they want to do this. Another thing that I would like to share with you which is very very important we have always the dairyman of Arkansas. My self as a government employee said is not my mil worth as much as that milk that you're getting from Kansas and Georgia and that five dollars a hundredweight that you're paying that trucker to get it in here folks if you add up. With their pain that Kansas and Georgia dairyman and the five dollars a hundredweight that they're paying that trucker that milk is costing more to get to that processing plant then the class one price that you have so generously said that you passed as law. I want to make sure you understand what I said. The money that DFA is paying those very man in Kansas. And the Texas. For their milk plus five dollars a hundredweight that they're having to pay that truck driver to get the milk to Arkansas is costing more. Then if they would pay me that class one price. I have been in committee meetings when we had our dairy coops that we have told that to the DFA. And they have repeatedly said course I could do that. That's not part of our program. Don't ever plan on that happening. And there were times that was reported to me after the meeting the people that asset to DFA call up said to that person Hey buddy don't cause any more problems or we might not want to pick up your milk anymore. That's how we what we have been treated and that's why this started two and a half years ago at Arkansas farm bureau jury committee meeting or during minute had enough and said is or something that we can do. I might add. The highland processing plants of Arkansas are painting over order premium of a dollar ninety three to the call which is above the class one price they are paid to the federal milk market order. With the Department of Arkansas have not seen the financial. Piece of the pie as well in that aspect. There are great. There are great simulations to the Germans because and the small there are great similarities to the Germans because in the small pharmacies case which are Attorney General took and one going all the way to the Supreme Court. I might add to you that you had the opinion. Of the attorney lawyer Kevin. I might add to you that he said a lot of things like might could be possibly. I would like to share with you that we we is determined when we started presenting this and and ask you guys to do this. We were not all Austin inspired because we ate pepperoni pizza one day decided was asking for a class one price. We would what through great debate and dialogue. We sought counsel from there a from lawyers at a Washington DC that have sued DFA because of their malpractice by the way that lawyer sue them five times and beaten five times. We sought counsel to make sure that what we were saying what we were doing was not gonna get any legislators. Having problems with what we are doing. Could there be a lawsuit of course DFA doesn't want to pay this. The FAA has ninety nine percent of the time gotten their way. And through that breeds arrogance and confidence the date that they can continue having their way and not doing the right thing. We believe according to this a lawyer out of Washington DC who knows the federal milk market order and this loss that we have a great chance of winning. Is it is it for sure no. But if we could you know like myself you heard lawyer Kevin tell you you got paid to do here got paid to be here. I would like to share with each one of you nobody's paid me to be here. I bought my own gas. About moon hotel a bottle my food and it came out of high Terry. And what we are making on our Derek. I would ask you to move this forward to Friday I would ask you to move this forward and and with great confidence that you did the right thing I ask you move forward that that the tournament of Arkansas could have a chance because if we get this past. I'm telling you and I I've I believe with all my heart I'm predicting. That the tournament of Arkansas within ten years. Will provide enough milk for the consumers of Arkansas. Thank you for putting up with me and allowed me to talk. What lessons I would entertain any questions from committee members. S. one question only and it is. And and we need to remember we are deciding whether we can pass this rule without a violating intent of state or federal law or bioline ten and it is in concert or is consistent with state and federal law my question use listening to your conversation just a quick response it almost sounds like DFA has a monopoly over the dairy farmers in my right or wrong in my perception ninety nine percent of the time they do have the monopoly. Okay thank you any other questions. All right thank you Sir thank you. Next on the list is to speak. Against is Mike flag. You come forward please and state your name for the record and who you represent either entity or as an individual please. Twenty good morning my name's Mike flag I'm with Hiland dairy. Wrote a big book but I'm not going to read it to you. After hearing all the discussion there's been a lot of good points made would you do me a favor just slide that Mike a little closer please thank you. I mailed a letter to each of the members hopefully you all received the. I'm just gonna do a few quick recaps. The original act by Senator Stubblefield representative. On ramp and and and I want to say I really respect what they did dairy farming is one of the hardest job you could do this demanding three hundred sixty five days a year you don't get a vacation it's very hard and I respect the dairy farmers. That's why I work for the dairy farmers. The act was in good faith they want to help the Arkansas farmers we all do. But there's a flaw the money does not exist. It does not exist. The. The dairy stabilization board did their best to come up with rules. To meet the accent tension. And the bottom line is. It's gonna fall on highland dairy to pay the difference. I'm calling it a milk tax because we're going to have to pay the Arkansas farmers additional money above and beyond what we already pay the co law. In order to meet the requirements of this act. Hiland dairy is losing money in this economy we cannot keep up with inflation on the fuel costs and so we will have to pass it along to our retailers to the schools to the hospitals to all the state agencies we serve. We're looking at after the retailer puts their mark up it'll be an additional twenty cents a gallon to the Arkansas citizens. We can't do that. We have an obligation to the citizens to our retail customers. And we have made the decision that if this rule is passed. We will no longer by Arkansas mental. We have made we have contacted DFA there in full agreement they will not ship us Arkansas milk. Therefore it will not affect the citizens of Arkansas. Because we can't do that. But it's a nail in the coffin of the Arkansas dairy farmers. Because they will not have the Arkansas market to sell their milk they will not get one extra sent from this act. This is all a waste of time. I don't want to do that. I want Arkansas mail I want to Arkansas farmers to grow but this isn't the way to do it. On the bright side of this act. Deface and and some representatives to all the berries the state of stabilization board meetings. One of the people that participated that is now the CEO of dairy farmers of America and he wrote a letter to this group. And he's on the record here that he wants to work to improve the dairy operations in the state. We got his attention we got DFA's attention. so I would say let's step back. And try to go out and work between the processor. And the co op let's try to strengthen the economy for the farmers but let's not do this because this is something that's going to take legislation to come back in reverse later just so we can move forward because if this passes we will not accept Arkansas mail. I saw Act. Take your questions. Take some questions yes our research center hill. Over on the side. First of all the correct with one thank you colleagues to a tax is collected by the state of Arkansas. It will be sorry it's not I will ensure that it will be collected by the stabilization board because they have the authority to it to audit our books to make sure we are paying the farmers so yes it's a state tax no it's not. I'm sorry your honor secondly are you threatening this body in the dairy farmers by saying we will not buy this is America threat it is not a threat what is it is a notice thank you Sir. Speaker Shepherd. Thank you Mr chairman. Right. And this is probably would should have been a question I should ask Mr crass. And it may have already been answered but to to what Senator Hickey brought up in terms of the purview of this committee and what what the the decision is before us today. I think the the real relevant questions I've heard a lot of talk about the act the act. Whether it is permissible under the constitution or not it's largely irrelevant because anything we do is presumed to be constitutional unless challenged and overturned so my question would be. Setting aside the act is there anything in this rule that. Is not mandated by the act that you believe is contrary to legislative intent contract Arkansas law contrary to federal law or contrary to the constitutions of the State of the State of Arkansas or the US constitution. My opinion is is that act is flawed in that. They feel like we can legislate the payment to the farmers which really that's contractual obligation between the farmers and the qualitative. And and the past and you cannot legislate that that's what Mr caress okay but that goes back to what was in the act come into is that are we all is that something that everybody agrees that what they're doing is that what the what is being promulgated here is required by law what by the act itself. So I don't know if the chair would allow Mr caress to maybe come back up please of the speaker's request. Mister Speaker I would say that the act is silent as to who pays. The premium the difference between what they would otherwise be paid and the class one right. So. Is there a direct conflict between the rules and the act I think that's why the professors price that on the face of the statute maybe it's not flawed but the way it's implemented through the rules. I don't know how we separate my guess is what I'm saying because the act in and of itself is not. in implementation it the act doesn't tell anybody who pays it and how it's calculated and how it's enforce it just said. Former shall receive class one and then it said the board shall issue rules to implement so I'm not sure I can carve out ACT five twenty one and say is there anything in it that conflicts with the rules it the rules expand beyond. The terms of ACT five twenty one okay and and that's helpful because it again understanding in my time here and and what I understand from our. But legal counsel here with the bureau is that you know it with regard to the act. That is. That's not part of the discussion and if the if the rule is implementing the acting is consistent with the act the the appropriate forum to challenge that would be in court and also that's one of the challenges I guess that even improper game rules if the rules were not promulgated then there could be there would be I guess potential liability from the standpoint of the board not promulgating rules that are required was required in Arkansas law but that so that really goes the harder question is what between setting aside the act as to the rules what what specifically is the do you contend the problem to be and what you for what shall stated is. Who pays I guess this is what well I think it goes to this fundamental question of whether this body has the power to regulate a private contract and if if your view is well the the act itself doesn't say that in all I've got to determine is whether the rules are consistent with the act for purposes of today's review in your review is fairly limited I don't find that you'll find that right but I thought I heard it said today in previously that one of the issues in your review is does it conflict with federal or state law not just the act from which the rules flowed. But again you all does the all decide what your role there is not many. Well and I think you. With regard to that in the the bureau we they can correct me if I'm wrong but I think. To the extent something complies with the act that's passed that's part of the inquiry now whether if the if the issue with the rules ultimately goes back to the act itself in terms of. Does do the rules conflict with with constitutional law if the act itself is mandating the rules to be promulgated in that way than I my understanding is that's an issue with the act not with the rules self of the route the statute clearly didn't date Mick mandate that the coop be paid the of required to pay it I just you know what in it's not it's silent okay thank you. Thank you all right members just a little where we are got seven in the queue We're we got a long agenda after this I'm not going to Stifel anybody from being able to talk on this comes up on the subject I just wanna give you heads up where we are we will stay here until we get through the agenda of subject does not run in the meeting this coming at one o'clock Senator Irvin. Yes quickly and it's whether the I think follow up on with ECR shepherd St are purview is whether the rules that are before us are in violation of additional state or federal law not we are not the body to litigate whether the act is in violation of state or federal law that's that's the purview of the court our purview is whether the rule follows the Legislative intense. Of the act passed and whether the rules as promulgated are in violation of state or federal law is that correct. Rescue me I'm on a diet tourney. Going to speak to Rebecca. Rebecca Miller rice attorney administrator for the whole section of the bureau I'm. You are correct the question is whether the rules are in conflict with Legislative intent or state or federal law about whether the active correct okay all right I just wanted to make sure that wasn't clarification so any testimony is not to litigate the act the testimony should be specific as to the language in the rule that would be in violation of state or federal law that's what the testimony should be for and against on this issue I mean we can go down a whole plethora of arguments here about your position the other people's positions as it fair is it not yada yada yada but the purpose of us today is for what is stated. So I would just let me ask you a question. It's my understanding that there's several reasons why this could get voted down and one of them is if the original act was voted on with an understanding that the money existed as you know it's been stated all along the money exist we need to get the coop to read directed to the farmers. And my point is the money doesn't exist the only way we can get the money that's not our is by taxing yes therefore the original act the intent on everybody voted on the original act based on the money existed but now you have learned after nine months of the milk stabilization aboard which I'm a member of. We research and tried to find the money and the rule came back to the only way we can get the money is by increasing fees on the processor server center I'd like to respond he asked me yes I'd go in let you go ahead that's one thing. So you asked a question no Sir that is not our role or responsibility today in the rules subcommittee of Arkansas Legislative Council that would have to be litigated during a legislative session. And any financial. A discussion or financial processes would then have to follow with the appropriation bills and then those appropriation bills would have to direct how those funds are collected and when they're where they are received and how they are dispersed through an appropriation which is why it's not a tax because we do not receive any of that money that you're talking about into state revenue and if we had there would have been an accompanying appropriation bill with this legislation which there was not. Because you thought the money existence are. That is an assumption that you're making with this let's Senator Stubblefield said it. Sir that's an assumption that you're making with this with this legislature I am telling you the process of governments. Okay thank you all right Sir representative garner. C. thirty nine. Thank you Mr chair I don't have a dog in this fight. But I am from Arkansas. And you have offended Arkansas. If you pull the Arkansas farmers milk from us you. I can't even use that to to I would ask you to re price that I would ask you to read thanks what you're going to do to the Arkansas dairy farmers. Our Kansans would create of two five Arkansas products you can put a label on it say it's organic I'll pay twenty cents more and I would ask you to think about that thank you. Represent Bentley. Thank you Sir Mr fly please tell me how you get to twenty cents a gallon more for the consumers here in Arkansas through this I want I would like to hear your math please. It actually came from the milk stabilization board I don't know if I have it here they calculated based on I think it was January Mr Hodgen his group came back to the difference between what the Arkansas farmers received Verses what the class one and it was actually not full class one it was the utilization of the dairy which we only utilize about ninety percent of the mail as class one ten percent of it goes to lower classes. And then when we took that amount. I want to say it was a dollar sixty or more a hundred weight is what the farm what we would have to pay in addition and then when we pass that on to the retailer and the retailer takes thirty percent more on top of that that's how we get to this twenty cents a gallon. Are you not currently was giving the if in a class one pricing U. S. hylas how I'm not paying the if in a classroom pricing for hardwood Miller. We had a class one on the portion of the milk that we utilize in class one class one is for drinking. A class two is ice creams and copper my cooking and that's where the the balance of our milk as we we make a lot of buttermilk for factories that make breads and things with it and then also we sell cream is a by product and about six percent of our milk is cream and we have to sell that at a loss to on. While Turkey hills one of the people that by. So again I just wanna clarify your your to when you to do you have been a you're giving the FNA class one pricing for fluid milk that you referred about ninety percent of what we by yes one one other quick question thank you chairman for U. Lindsey but when I when I go as a consumer. To the store to harps in Perry County. Do not think that I might look at that milk and say that's Hiland dairy milk I know they use in Arkansas bears and I pay the extra price which is a dollar Gilmore now over with great value whatever it is a hard has from somebody out of state you know I think consumers in Arkansas taking a chance and take a look at that say I want support Arkansas and I want to support them so I I just pay the extra price for Holland everything you have and there's extra over the great value whatever the harps already produces from other states and brings in from other states at this point do you think are Kansas might look at that and want to help or can't Arkansas dairies and pay the extra price already that you're charging now we know I would I would hope that the Arkansas people understand that Highlanders Arkansas we have three manufacturing plants in Arkansas we employ over five hundred people we contribute over five hundred million dollars in revenue to the state we're talking about twenty five farmers here who I appreciate the farmers I want there to be five hundred farmers in the state. We have to import ninety percent well over ninety percent of our mail from out of state because the state doesn't have enough farmers to produce to mail out when you buy highland you're thinking of Arkansas produced now I've I've passed this legislation have Arkansas farmers because we were twelve hundred network twenty five because the practices of the dairy farmers American either squeezing out farmers and that's what we're trying to fix and thank you Sir chairman. Just a quick question clarification what you said I thank I think of her there's twenty five dairy farmers in the state but I heard that the majority of the mail is sent out of state if you purchase milk from all the twenty five dairies that were in the state would that suffice to meet the needs of all Arkansans if we got every drop of the Arkansas mail could be less than ten percent of our needs okay thank you Sir chair of center Caldwell. Here in the middle. Of the. We're talking estate in few minutes ago that the. You import a lot of uh milk from Georgia the Kansas maybe taxes you pay more for that milk can what you pay the Arkansas therefore now we if we get one bill for mail from DFA and it's based on the region seven USDA federal market order and it does not distinguish where the mail comes from. Okay. The in to follow up on what the. Revision Bentley said I think you just made a major PR move in fact if you're only throw out Arkansas their farmers to I would guess it to consumers of Arkansas we say we do the same thing for Holland so well got back up re rethink what to what you might do on it you know we've been here hundred sixty years. We participate in the community we I mean how many ball teams of we sponsored we are we're part of this state we go D. in Arkansas and I don't want to lose the Arkansas farmers I'm just telling you what you stated land with anyway when it cost us more with more regulations will have to add staff for twenty five farms. And this is not the way to grow Arkansas farming. Thank you Mr chairman. There's a reason you will pay more to Arkansas farmers is because DFA controls the price that you get paid or my confused on that. DFA's sells us our mail they are a minority owner twenty percent not twenty five but that with that twenty percent they control they are our supplier. Yes. Wonder why we even have a number sixty six please of that would be representative Beatty. Thank you thank you Mr chairman. Just for clarification I. What would be what we're being told here today is that your pay more to out of state dairy farmers then in state dairy farmers and that was the intent of this this act is to level that playing field is that correct. I have not heard that you have not heard that no we we okay I just explained we get a bill for our mail it just says you receive so many million pounds of milk and this is your price it does not distinguish in state and out of state. Well I mean. That was the whole purpose of your notice that you gave this body was it was going to cost the the additional cost for twenty five forms if if this act passes then we will have to set up people to track the Arkansas mill if we received Arkansas mail we would have to track it we would have to calculate the the difference between what the farmer was paid verses what DFA paid them. And then we would have to pay the difference. Well I'm just gonna reply back to your notice that you gave this body and direct you back to your mission statement the number one items being better than we have to be and number two doing what's right number three on that list is the reasonable return here owners so direct to those first two point to let you reconsider that notice you gave this body. Well. State representative Kevin are you shouldn't. Okay representative Kevin. I'm over here I guess where I'm confused as you. And you can say however you want to say it but you made a threat that if this went through that you would by Arkansas milk anymore and that was a threat you can call it however you want to say a fact of life or whatever but it was a threat. So with your threat you just said you don't know where the milk comes from. That it comes from the FAA. So how are you going to carry out that threat if you don't know where the milk comes from. So. We were talking about billing on the bill and I don't know what this is going to require is for me to hire people to go through each farm manis best and pick out which forms are Arkansas then we will have to track that mail and make sure that that farmer gets paid the additional premium. But you said. You get all your milk from the FAA the FAA would have to tell you so what should be pretty simple. If you're buying it from one person to my understanding is DFA is your sole provider of milk. In these plants in Arkansas is that not correct. DFA's the sole provider and that's called a monopoly. So now you're you're you're talking from a person who is a car dealer who understands that free market is not always free market. But when you say to this body. That you make a threat against. Citizens of Arkansas in their livelihood. But then in your same word to submit its later you say you don't know where the milk comes from. That's a scare tactic we have lived through it with PBMs. And Sir with all due respect will live there with you thank you. Shares of film. Thank you Mr chairman. A. Flags. How much are how much more you pay for milk from our state that your. Arkansas did I pay the same amount same amount. You do not pay a surcharge. I don't pay anything different I get I get charge for mill. So you don't. You do not pay any surcharge to milk coming from Colorado or Texas that Arkansas producers do not get I get a bill that says you bought. Ten or is really about thirty million pounds of mill and a dollar amount and I pay it so you really don't know I really don't know the deal I do not know okay that's that's all we'll say you don't know how much more you're paying out of state producers then you Arkansas there from let's get that straight I pay one price after all the mail so you don't know all right. Since Arkansas producers only produced five percent maybe six. Of the entire meal needed in this state. Why would you use all that for class one. I would love to get the Arkansas mail can use all of it central Arkansas farmers are in a different co all they joined Lone Star dairy and they ship their milk out of state so there is no central Arkansas milk coming to Little Rock what when you use the remaining is all class one well you know most the dairy farms are up in the north west side of the state and we have to Derry's up there and I'm not sure how much they get. But I you've got a meal plan for Smith right I mean I don't know how much their get wouldn't hall is meant to Fort Smith in the hall of from contact right Garden City Kansas I agree I wish I wish you all. And I think the FAA would agree they would love to have big farms in central Arkansas supplying or been met I don't think so I thank this this is so much you can to the four large Packers the control ninety two percent of every big cat in on this in the United States this is so much like that because you've got a huge monopoly that controls every drop of milk that comes in the State of Arkansas whether they only own twenty five percent of how you're not well this is very much like that that's not true in Arkansas dairy farmers of suffer and what do you think it were worth we've gone from a thousand to twenty five because they become more prosperous. Senators Stubblefield Kroger. Who has forty percent of the retail they have their own dairy in Nashville they don't by Arkansas mill they don't produce milk in Arkansas yes they come in here and so and they're going to be selling it cheaper than we can sell. Walmart can easily go out go out of state and get their milk from other my other plants seven miles from Arkansas they're not going to be paying this. You know what can happen or make a prediction by the way. We when you when you did say. That you would no longer buy milk produced in the state of Arkansas that was an intentional circumvention of fairness it really it really is the is the anti trust violation in and of itself I think you need to listen to the whole sentence I said I said listen if the bill is going to cost us more. If the mails going to make us uncompetitive how can we go forward with it. If. If they don't have you don't know the numbers you're using the word if we have obligations to all the retailers we have obligations to the schools where we were supposed to bring the the most efficient least expensive milk to market for the Arkansas citizens. And this is not impacting the dairies in Memphis Nashville Springfield Missouri Dallas Texas Houston Texas that are importing into this town. We do not have a monopoly we compete Kroger is forty percent of the market. We cannot compete with them with Arkansas milk and we're talking about Arkansas farmers what you need to remember you have three processing plants with over five hundred employees that we export out of the state of Arkansas half of our processing you are putting that in at stake I would hope you would think that five hundred processing employees who have been here a hundred and sixty years count as much as the twenty five farmers twenty three farmers in you said thank you said you were going to have to hire a lot after staff just to track twenty three Arkansas farmers because you get a manifest with ten farms on it and one of it is Arkansas we receive twenty five tractor trailers a day I have to have somebody go through each manifest picking out the Arkansas farmers and then we have to track that milk and that's hard picking up twenty three farmers Arkansas farmer I don't have somebody to do it now have to hire somebody Senator Stubblefield yes but can I put you at the bottom here I got a couple others okay thank you Senator Hickey. Thank you I'm over here Sir of. I'm trying to I'd like for us to kind of get back to what the objective of this committee is. Which I think that the Senator Irvin alluded to that that we've got to figure out if this is a Runs contrary to legislative intent which I heard what you tried to say that if we thought the money was there maybe that was Legislative intent or whether it conflicts with the state or federal law constitutional or otherwise now I will say this and this is what commitment your delivery system is horrible. Because these legislators appear whether or not you agree with or not they were elected by the people they support our farmers and that we understand where you're coming from winter stand at your business that's been in the State of Arkansas on your private business and I guess you can do which will so at this point there's gonna be some more questions I do think that you should give this body a little more respect and I don't know if it's my put my part to say that or not and we we need to do that back to you and I agree to agree to that but your delivery is horrible so I appreciate the feedback I'm sorry thank you Sir so if we can just get back to what our job and duty is here is whether these conflicts exist as it relates to this to this rule. And you did make that that comment that you're not going to that you're not going to do this but you're not going to buy Arkansas mill and one of the other reps brought that up. So are you just told us you're going to shut your you're going to shutter doors down whatever we pass this is what it sounds like to me because you can't distinguish between the two. But that's that's the relevant so back to the part Mr Krauss you thank you conflicts. Do you think it conflicts with state and federal the constitution. Because it's impairing a contract is that correct. Yes Sir okay. In the go ahead and state the other issues and where they're at if you don't mind one more time the other issue is the commerce clause which prohibits states from discriminating. You know Group One group versus another in state versus out of state and obviously is not iron clad rule I would not tell you that but it. The professors that testified before the. Appeared before the milk board said yes this bill in these rules posed a problem when it came to that Commerce Clause because what's what he what he's saying is he can by the mill from out of state out of state farmers will not get the benefit of this law. And so they won't be paid class one so there's the just that legally that's discriminatory from his economic standpoint it means he would be paying more for Arkansas gallon of milk then he would be Mississippi now the numbers he's got a run I'm no businessman but that that's the issue but it's for this rule what you said and the original part is it that would conflict with the other farmers and and the other states that's where you're saying that the commerce calls is coming into effect yes Sir and also in the coop because he you know. They the proponents suggest that the money's there but if if we take a pile of money. And say we're going to pay it to the Arkansas farmer then that means less money going to the other coop members who are in Arkansas that's the analogy I made with rice and I used Northeast Arkansas versus out these but I mean they have members in Mississippi as well but when you're interfering with the coop you're saying that coop no longer decides how the money is distributed the legislature has said some of it has to go to these this subset of members ID the Arkansas farm I understand and I'm I know I'm not clear on that with that I'm going to it's all very complicated and I mean it's complicated for me and me to you know. Years ago my family was in the dairy business so I understand the by the challenges are there but from this body standpoint what we need to do is try to figure out you know. Whether these conflicts exist or not so Mister chair I I wish that we could try to hold it to that we will thank you senator I represent right. Thank you thank you Mr chairman Sir does it cost more to produce milk within the state of Arkansas and if it does one. When you say produce you mean the dairy farmer. The. That is a great question I've served on the stabilization board since its inception and we have not answer that yeah I don't think it costs more to produce milk in Arkansas than any of the other southeastern states it thank house may not produce as much milk as the cows in the less humid environment okay but may I have the truck the milk a lot further all right let me let me interrupt because two Senator Hickey's point was any questions or any comments from this point forward given a lot of latitude but it's a sensitive issue and want to make sure everything was that it out as much as possible I got three in the queue what I want to ask is ask a question that's relevant to whether or not we is committee have to make the decision to passes out based on whether to whether to violate state law or federal law or if it's not consistent with the intent because I've got one more one speak in favour got one more one speak against it and and I think we've probably got to the point we need to make a decision so with that thanks for answer represent Dotson. Thank you Mr chair I've I've been going back and forth on what we talked about earlier. And. I. I understand what you're saying that it might violate the Commerce Clause Mr grass that you said. Although. I don't see that specifically how it would and would do that that's a that's a legal argument that I'm afraid you're probably gonna have to make is I think this was is going through here today and and I don't see how it violates the law that was passed the statute Act. And all I see house bill seventeen twenty nine ACT five twenty one I believe it was so. It this this rule appears to me to comply with the the statute that was passed in obviously Legislative intent it was overwhelmingly passed If if the statute that was passed you feel violates the Commerce Clause in the last nine or ten months why hasn't there been a suit brought to this point to to stop the statute from being implemented would be timely the judge the judge the courts wouldn't entertain it as an advisory opinion until the rules are fine. Okay. All right ma'am thank you appreciate the answer sure thank you. One second please. Senator Hill. Mr chairman I ask for immediate consideration I don't think we can ask for me to consideration I believe we can ask for motion to terminate in discussion would you like I know what I'm doing all right we have a motion to end discussion any of anyone one of them clear the board anybody got a second it will clear the board hang on don't light up. Clear myself the board isn't the board is cleared if you want to speak to the motion go ahead light up in a recognized was or will take to vote in the vote will be to in discussion Senator Hickey. Yes I had I had asked staff and it would be towards this that there was another piece of the of the law that I think that this is a body should need to know before they make the vote. So you speak against the motion. Okay. Anyone else wanna speak for or against the motion. Senator Hill. Mr terrible that down let Marty speak all right Going to the All right so report down who made the second. You okay with pointed them right good recognized Marty speak. Yes ma'am. Marty Garrity with pure of Legislative Research mmhm Senator Hickey asked me to speak on ACT eleven oh one of twenty twenty one this was an act by a representative Gonzales that provides that if the committee or subcommittee considering a rule containing a fear penalty submitted accordance with Arkansas Code twenty five section twenty five fifteen one of five is not required to state the grounds under subdivision of one of this section when not approving a rule containing the fear penalty and may choose not to approve a rule continue to fear penalty submitted under twenty five fifteen one oh five for any reason. So the question before this body then would be whether this would be a fee or penalty and if so then no reason would be required AS in that violates federal or state law or legislative intent. Senator of Irvin push but showing here questions for everybody please Senator. Can you repeat that yes so if. If you deem that this rule Contains a fear penalty. Then that this body and the Legislative Council can choose not to approve the rule for any reason it is not you don't have to state that it violates federal or state law or legislative intent. So let me ask you Senator you have any questions yes and so could you give me an exact well. Can is is penalty what what's the what what what did you say before penalty I can't understand a fee or a penalty a police fee a fee okay I'm sorry I couldn't understand already or a penalty. Okay thank you. Represent Dotson you got a question. Yes Mister chair This is for staff how would that change the process on. Would this still be considered reviewed and approved without objection and then the objection could be stated that it contains a fee or penalty and that would be the grounds by which that motion would have to pass in order to then take a second motion to disapprove. Represent Dotson this is the first time this would happen so I would say yes that I mean it says for you know there would be a a statement that this does include a fear a penalty and then a motion to not approve the rule. And so. I guess we still take to boats I mean I don't think that's clearly establishing a rule since it's not been. ever done before its first I've even realize that we have that ability. The yes I think the rules and I don't have them with me but the rules would still require the motion to take the vote to not approve the rule okay and that would have to pass an affirmative in order to then take up the question on whether or not to to disapprove still correct thank you. All right of center hill question to the discussion. No travel ask for immediate consideration at this because you'll be reviewed all right could you hold that for just one second please because I want to ask Marty questions about one of the one and I'll come back to you if you hold please sixty six. Representative body like to speak to the motion just a question for staff and does representing dot Gonzalez act of twenty twenty one defined fee or penalty within that act. Why she's looking that up or make a correction I think I should speak to the motion there's no motion for they withdrew my apologies. It does not. Okay. Right back Senator Irvin. And that follow up that was my question but is there anything in the rule proposed rule we have a synopsis is there any language in the proposed rule that defines a fee or penalty that success to whomever and collected and. Do we have. The complete will. She's looking. Senator Ervin Rebecca Miller writes for the bureau I'm not seeing the definition for fever penalty in that role. Follow clarification you're not seen definition of fear penalty in the this rule that we're discussing. Currently I have four ACT five twenty one is that correct. I. Correct I'm seeing definitions for board books and records consumer cooperative dealer department handle market milk over market premium person price producer story sold okay thank you. Mr chairman if it matters of record the I don't believe that it has a fear penalty the provisions says if the if they have the premiums are paid the there can be a lawsuit in circuit court I would not deem that a fee or penalty thank you for that and I'm I don't I'm sorry interject I thought it might be helpful our thank you let me. Let me I just wanna make sure I got things down right from here so don't go anywhere okay With regards to the bill that representative Gonzalez at your referred to. If the committee felt that there was a fee or penalty included in it we would take that up as the matter to decide first before we go on with anything else my right on that that would be correct okay all right this is if you will please hold place Senator Hill go ahead. Let's go back to my original motion Mr. And your is your motion as I remember correctly if I'm wrong is to stop all discussion yes Sir okay to have a second on that. Okay we got a motion second motion second is two of cease all discussion on this matter during any discussion to the motion. All favor say aye. Any opposed. Motion passes. Without objection in this rule will be considered reviewed. You want a voice vote okay all right. Okay. Senator Hickey I want any clarification is one of voice vote are you objecting. Thank you also let me let you go ahead I guess someone object because I want to vote no. All right. You got to be patient with me while I make sure we step through this correctly. Senator Hickey stick with me. This rule is reviewed and approved do you wish. To object. All right so you're objecting. Okay. All right. And this is what you say this is where we go down state state your objection yes okay all right of center thank you would you please state your objection please to the role. Sorry but your arsenal on if you just leave it on thank you go ahead yes I believe that conflicts with the state and federal law impartial possibly Legislative intent. Specific. Senator Hickey cordon what I've gotten from me I need the specifics I can't be the generality it needs to be specific if you would please. Go ahead. I personally believe that impairs the. And conflicts because of the contracts that the cooperatives and the. Producers have together. And then also. I also see this that the money's got to come from somewhere where and I'm not for sure that there's not a fee involved or a tax increase or something hi everyone to find. All right members of at this time we'll have discussion and we're gonna go to representative hawking if you would please keep it to Senator Hickey is objection on whether or not to approve the rule or not senator I may represent all I'm sorry it again would you thank you Mr chairman of Senator Hickey aye I just would like to ask your opinion of the authority of the milk stabilization board and its mission to this body. Go ahead Senator Hickey my only comment as it relates to whether or not I think that this is a that this rule is a violation of state and federal law I stated that because of the same considerations that they've said that if the. All the all the old all of us are supportive of our dairy farmers and that they're going to get this price we have to take into effect Commerce Clause that the ones across the state line or not or are not going to receive the same same amount so that I understand what your question is but my only relates to. To what the role of this committee is. As it relates to this rule. And I just want I want to be a record that I don't think that the that complies. Senator Hickey do you mind taking another question in in so if you can respond to your objection are you okay with that Sir are you okay with taking questions to your on sure I'm happy to try to think we've sit here and listen to all this I think a all right we've heard a lot of. Thank you I I'd just ask again to for clarification to your opinion on the department of agriculture for the state of Arkansas promulgated in the rules through the milk stabilization board do you believe they have the authority to do that. with the milk stabilization board as part of the division of agriculture whose lawyers presented this rule to us today. I think that this body passed a statute and we kind of danced around that this body passed a statute which required them to promulgate rules so I think that they've done their job as far as that goes because they required within the statute to promulgate those rules and and bring on before us which I've done. This bodies job at that point is to say whether or not those whether or not those rules whether or not they comply with all. All state and federal laws and legislative intent. And in my opinion they do not so you know we go all the way back in this will be our guest for court to to answer somebody brings bring suit. You know is whether or not the statute itself was flawed so you know it's a I guess that question is after. Represent Dotson. Speaking to the motion thank you Mr chair just thanks to restate what I believe I said before Looking through the the rule and looking through the statute that was passed I don't think that the rule itself. is is necessarily the the thing that's in in question it's more the statute the statute itself may violate the Commerce Clause but that'll be something that is determined by a court as far as whether or not the rule that we're considering today violates the statute that was passed I think it complies with not only the statute itself but also with legislative intent and so therefore I cannot support stopping the rule thank you. All right. Let me read what we're doing next service on the same page we can flow. We run check of says a vote is then taken on whether to vote on approving the rule a yes vote is to proceed with a vote on not approving the rule a no vote is to allow the rule to be reviewed and approved so only read that again a yes vote is to proceed with a vote on not approving the rule a no vote is to allow the ruled to be reviewed and approved. And it'll be a voice vote unless otherwise requested. Senator Hickey. Clarification because I wanna make sure that all the members understand so I'll be voting yes. Okay thank you for that. We're gonna do a voice vote. Everybody I understand if we have any questions. All in favor say yes. All opposed say no. Okay the nose haven't. Rules review to perform the road reviewed and approved. Thank you members thank you for all the came to testify no couple didn't but I think we got the same will hashed out and talk about all right members we're gonna move on and we are going to push on to try to get the Rested the agenda cleared out we are on to. Second page of your agenda department that culture. A natural resources commission title fourteen. L. would to the table names title for the record please. Representative Jane would you mind. Coming to the chair for a minute please. Go ahead name and title for the record you all can proceed with your rule please thank you I'm right benefit on the deputy director of the natural resources division. White House chief counsel Arkansas department of agriculture. Lake Forest on the ground water section supervisor and Naturi Services Division. Go ahead you're recognized thank you Mr chairman during past legislative session ACT five sixty three and ACT eight seventy five we're both past and they modified the water resources conservation and development incentives act one of the acts extended the time period within which a water project to under the act has to be completed the other act increase the actual tax incentives for that act and so we simply amended our rule to comply with the provisions of both of those acts and that's all it does thank you. Thank you have any questions. Seeing none without objection this rule is approved. We're going to number five which is the part of agriculture veterinarian medicine exam. You got anybody else you do yes. You identify yourself. Thank you Mr chairman again wait hajj chief counsel department of agriculture character art director for the veterinary medical examining thank you for C.. ACT one thirty of twenty twenty one authorize the board to promulgate rules regarding telehealth and telemedicine so and now animal owners can have a. Tele medicine visit with their veterinarian's just like all of us can do with their own personal. Physician and that's all the rule does okay members we have any questions. Say no without objections rule the program opens entail. Over here go ahead okay question this is for as they relate to be considered a relationship does the customer have to go to the veterans office at some point before they can do telemedicine. At so that is correct that the veterinarian client patient relationship does first need to be established through an in person examination at once that relationship has been established then they can have telemedicine visits with their veterinarian can you explain more why we need to do that because yes people out in rule Arkansas that they might not have a veterinarian since we're short of ignorance and everything why we try to make this more complicated share so and that would that was definitely a point that was discussed we had to several stakeholder meetings and where we had different groups involved in that discussion ultimately the board at determined that and they felt that it was necessary for that in person examination to take place and to establish that relationship. So we can do it for humans but not. Not for animals yeah I think I think another room an important point to that and if I can remember back president of the discussions that we had and you know the animal patient and cannot speak for itself and so there are some reasons why that physical examination is so important in certain instances and there may be things that the veterinarian needs to see touch smell and in person and so that is that is one reason why that can't be so important. Good Senator no I'm really not where are you through no I'm not all right. Okay can can you give me a lot more a lot more car on it because I know as an individual I can sit there and speak for my and what I can check the teamster from of it in here and I can I can do all those things what. Why can we not the. Not do that. In center as as director Thark mentioned we had several stakeholder meetings regarding this rule and and that very issue the only ones we heard from that thought it could be established or that the telemedicine visits could be held without first establishing that inpatient relationship were out of state nationally owned corporations and so they wanted the ability for some veterinarian in California to be able to and he shared a telehealth visit and all of the the local veterinarians that we heard from more opposed to that okay with that thank you for that I know I've heard from several and several be used for I'm not mistaken large animal vets who were definitely concerned about that part of it. Thank you. Thank you senator Ruben Cavenaugh if you're recognized for a question thank you so on the stakeholders that y'all are talked to who were the stakeholders. I don't have the list right here in front of me but I can tell you that we had the Arkansas veterinary medical association the American veterinary medical association there was a national group the virtual veterinary care association and then we had some other local and better near ends there is a veterinarian out of Texas who actually has one of these telemedicine companies who actually happens to be licensed in Arkansas also I'm so we had just really and some folks that it let me know they wanted to be involved and then other folks that were included and that that we thought would be helpful in the discussions but we had no actual end users of the veterinarian so we had no. I'm a large animal person and they're not enough a large animal vets in the State of Arkansas we didn't have any you know people that actually use a veterinarians their actual clients part of the stakeholder process we we also did have at the cattlemen's association attend those meetings that they were party that stakeholder group and what was their take on it but if they do not have a comment on it okay. Thank you. Senator Flippo. Hill Senator hill. Yes right like for this to be a helpful Friday for further you. K. A. objections. Hold it till Friday and will refer to the full LOC in A. L. C. on Friday all right thank you. The next part of Education Division elementary secondary education please. One lady's name and title for the record please. Amy Douglas Division of elementary and secondary education attorney. Laurie Freneau general counsel Division elementary secondary K. H. at the secondary education department of education. Kristy Parker attorney specialist Division elementary and secondary education department education thank you all got quite a few and it's going to be short on each one that's great go ahead. I have a first off we have background checks ACT six thirty of twenty twenty one require that background checks for educator licensure be submitted by electronic means we updated the rules to reflect that change. Hey questions from members. Without objections rules reviewed approved master principal. rules regarding master principal were updated they had not been updated since two thousand twelve they were updated to reflect new practices and me and provide clarity to the master principal program. Any questions for members. I thought objections rules reviewed approved and just for the record I don't think we had anybody else signed up to speak on anything else today for against just for the record I have. Okay hi national board certification teacher. Of the rules were amended to reflect the law just to mirror the law there was a discrepancy in classroom teacher M. and classroom setting it was I have. Change to reflect that. Any questions from members. Without objection the rules reviewed and approved. Educator licensure. I believe code of ethics is next. I'm sorry no intent to skip over the ethics stuff okay code of ethics at ninety six of twenty twenty one change the time lines and required in and kind of ethics of investigation process the rules were updated to reflect that change a questions from members. The objection is rules reviewed and approved now education last. I am at six fifty seven of twenty twenty one and established a highly qualified professors and the rules were changed to incorporate that and act as well as updated to do some clean up. Any questions remembers. Surjection this road reviewed and approved. F.. Rules governing school based. Eighty. Thank you again Laurie Freneau department of education these rules are amended to corporate provisions of act five forty four twenty twenty one which was a technical corrections bill mainly what they did is required that we now follow the current on the American heart association guidelines standards and recommendations concerning eighties And CPR we had some changes but none of a more substantive as a result of public comment. A question for members. The objection this rule is reviewed and approved G.. Rules governing visual. These rules are amended to incorporate provisions of act six forty four of twenty twenty one which provides that students in grades five or six in a public school configured as an elementary school must receive at least forty minutes per week in visual art and forty minutes per week in music while students in grades six enrolled in a public school that is not configured as an elementary will have the same annual visual and performing arts options as the other students in that school on there were public comments no substantive changes were made as a result any questions for members. The objections rules reviewed approved. Governing educational support. At two fifty one of twenty twenty one required the statewide assessments be scored and return to school districts by August first of each school year that was change from the previous July first deadline and ACT three nineteen of twenty twenty one requires that students must read that school districts must administered to students in grades ten through twelve a college and career readiness assessment and it added that to the including a collagen correct in this assessment at least two nationally recognized work reading a certification no changes were made following public comments and questions from members. Without objection is rules reviewed approved rules governing right to read. L. sorry training for school board members. Is the part of part of education and these rules are updated to amend incorporate the provisions of act eighteen ninety five one eighty two of twenty twenty one and after public comment there were no steps that there is only noncitizen changes made. Any questions from members. Subject to the rules reviewed. And approved right to read. This was updated to incorporate provisions of Act six zero six at twenty twenty one and at language prohibiting the use of certain reading instruction methods allow the state board to order Division of elementary second education to with hold up to ten percent of the monthly. Distribution of state funding eight if the district does not comply within sixty days of state board providing notice of a violation and tell the district as a compliance And it requires the secretary of education to hire and supervise an education invites men and they were only nonsense that changes made after the public comment period. The questions remembers. Without objection is rules reviewed approved according would you identify yourself for the record please sorry and find out for a solace Board to counsel for the department of education. And I think you've got rules governing Klein enrollment yes Sir the rules governing declining enrollment and student growth funding for public school districts were revised to incorporate provisions of act nine oh nine to remove the restriction that a district could not receive declining enrollment and special needs isolated funding previously they would only receive the higher of the two amounts now they can receive all. A question for members. The objection rules reviewed approved rules governing star spangled banner the rules governing the star spangled banner Act were developed in accordance with act nine fifty eight of twenty twenty one and creating a new code section which require school districts to adopt a policy requiring each school in the district to broadcast the star spangled banner at the beginning of each school sanctioned sporting event and at least one time each week during school hours. Any questions members. Without objection the rule is reviewed and approved and rules governing special shoes special needs funding. The rules governing students special needs funding or amended to incorporate ACT three twenty two of twenty twenty one concerning enhanced student achievement funding formerly known as national school lunch funding this is What. Previously the law had a list of items that this funding could be used for the law was amended and allowed us to make some changes so that it is now six broad categories that districts can use to allocate that spending there was also some changes to the alternative education requirements we did receive public comment and made some revisions as a result of those as well as adding a section on and and talk alternative learning hybrid program so that districts can offer alternative education services to students that might be on site and off site as well. And I'll be happy to take any questions any questions members. Without objection this rule is reviewed and approved thank you thank you. And we're up next for the Department finance ministration tobacco control board. Morning if you would name and title for a record please Sir. my name is Greg slant I'm Director of Arkansas tobacco control. Okay. You're recognized you hit. Right of. So. When I rules leave the first thing we did was update the permit fees to match statutes and this was from to match the statues from acting twelve thirty five of the ninetieth General Assembly. Two thousand fifteen and ACT ten seventy one of the ninety second General Assembly of two thousand nineteen. Then We did add a replacement form replacement notice form in these rules so that if a new owner took over an existing store you can fill out this form get approval from the existing owner to use their permit and get approval from tobacco control to operate on that permit for thirty days we did that to help the help the retailers out a little bit. Now. And that was from percent ACT three eighty six of two thousand twenty one. And then we did I made a few changes to the remaining statutes that was in accordance to at nine forty two of twenty twenty one which change this last legislative session and made some some rebate in of legal so we just updated our rules to match that in addition that we just made some formatting changes and just general clean up so that's that should be everything unless you have all have questions any questions from members. Without objection rules reviewed approved thank you thank you and per finance administration Revenue Division. Morning German name and. Title for the record please. Keyfinder attorney supervisor party financing ministration. Joel attorney department of finance and administration okay I will please go ahead. Thank you chairman of the committee members the department's here today seeking approval of the philanthropic investment Arkansas kids program rules the rules implemented ACT nine oh four of two thousand twenty one which created a mechanism for awarding tax credits to those who donate scholarship scholarship money to scholarship granting organizations the rule details the requirements for scholarship granting organizations in the donor's tax credit ministration and department education oversight this rule is drafted in conjunction with the Department of Education and no public comment was received on the rule thank you. The questions for members. Without objection the rules reviewed approved thank you all. Department of Health. Morning name title for the record please. John Robinette could you. Medicine are trying in try that again if you don't mind showing each name go ahead of I'm I'm doctor John Robinette with the Arkansas border podiatric medicine mac will work hard to help okay sorry about that. We have four statutory compliance changes to our rules all or non controversial no public comments and the language as provided by the attorney general's office. Make a thing that I don't Sir it was all just clean up and do legislation from last session and they have a question for members. Without objection rules reviewed approved thank you thank you. Another department health. Mr Charles Thompson Arkansas department of health Representative yes Sir what you have before you is up to eight to the rules pertaining to radiological technology technologist licensure as these are all done pursuant in accordance with Legislative acts including ACT one thirty five ACT seven twenty five ACT seven forty six ACT eight one one we did have some public comments but this public comments were from individuals that had concerns and disagreed with the acts themselves and not the rule implementation be happy to take any questions or questions from members. The objections yet from the public. Disagreed with Act but was there anything to accommodate with regards where the rules written that used it down or it is what it is unfortunately Senator no they were the rules written instruction plants with Act and verbatim language from the act okay all right any questions. Without objection rules reviewed and approved thank you. Other department health state kidney disease Commission yes Sir thank you Mister chairman versus what you have before you is the revisions the Arkansas kidney disease Commission rolls and twenty nineteen under transformation the kidney disease commission came under the Arkansas department of health when we when we receive them we realize that there rules and not been updated in many many years actually couple decades and we realize that there needed to be more clarity in the rules including affect the formulary and issues as to documentation so we did is we had multiple meetings colluding stakeholder input and then we kind of got slow down with COVID we but we took that back up we have for you the updated rules we had a public comment in a public hearing had no comments or or anyone at the public hearing that it concerns about them these did go through the joint public health committee earlier this month with no questions unanimous approval I'd be happy to take any questions a questions from members. Without objection road reviewed approved thank you thank you Mr chair thank you members welcome Department of Human Services division county operations. Morning name tougher record please thank you Mr Clark what are part of Human Services. Mary Franklin director of Division of County operations for Department of Human Services no go ahead please. This rule is a change to our medical services eligibility policy due to reflect new rules concerning Miller income trust patient liability and in this state recovery process change the rules the changes will implement ACT five seventy addressing estate recovery along with an update consistent with ACT five thirty and. The proponents of this change are in Miller income trust of the changes being made to no longer require clients all clients income to be placed into the trust only the amount that is over the income limit for the program in addition to that we are allowing for court ordered child support in court ordered spousal support as addictions from patient liability and we are also making the change in this state recovery to Property that's been transferred by a beneficiary deed will not be subject to beneficial to estate recovery and then we have deleted of sentence in part of our policy will relate related to payment of premiums for the our home program to be consistent with ACT five thirty. I'll be happy to take any questions. Any questions for members. The cost implement all that covered in your current budget I guess I noticed there's a price tag for doing this. It is I would add that a good chunk of that comes from one of the actually the state recovery that fiscal impact is a worst case scenario we don't expect that to happen but just as and to be conservative we came up with the number that the worst case scenario if everyone took advantage of that new opportunity we don't think that'll happen okay thank you any other questions. Without objection is road reviewed and approved thank you. And Division medical services. Warning name title for the record please. Elizabeth it meant the division director for the Division of Medical Services. The non emergency ambulance transport first. At this rule is pursuant to an act passed last legislative session ACT four four four it adds non emergency transportation services to the ambulance supplemental payment program that was passed in the previous session that allows ambulances services to pay us a tax that they than we used to draw down an access payment for them at which gives them extra funding non emergency transportation services works looted this new act has added them in and we are just updating response reflect that this does not include that services which are provided by brokers. Any questions members. Without objection is rules reviewed and approved a patient behavioral health. This is also pursuant to an act that was passed last legislative session ACT eight eight six and this removes the requirement for PCP referral for anything from the third to the tenth visit with a therapist and previous to that after the third visit you had to get a PCP referral so now after the tenth visit you will have to get that and we are returning this back to the date that it would have been effective in doing payments for the services that went on with our denied under this rule okay and questions from members. Subject to the rules reviewed and approved. Hospital physician nurse practitioner provider manual. This is also to comply with Act six thirty seven of the last session this is to provide coverage for pants panda treatment of using off label drugs including IV IG the treatment services do you have to be authorized by the center of excellence at UAMS and we do still require proper right prior authorization we are covering those services. Okay got a question about this one We got a we got a meeting of the panda pandas advisory board on Monday there's not going to discussions that you M. S. you reference specifically center of excellence but is that actually referenced in the language or is that just your verbal reference to because. I didn't see where they were specifically referenced or must admission I believe it is it's specifically referenced in the Act which is why it is part of our rule. Yes Sir it's under the act section B. of the act I or refers to treatment plan established by the post infectious autoimmune encephalitis with the center of excellence clinic in Arkansas right so if they if they as a center of excellence make a determination Medicaid would come in line with whatever the recommendation is is that I just wanna public record is that correct yes our understanding is there have been just had some discussions around them authorizing other providers to provide treatment as part of that centers for excellence if they do that we would of course follow that just wanna get a record thank you a question for any other members. Without objections rules reviewed and approved and D.. This is pursuant to act eight ninety one of the last legislative session it increases the limits for lab and X. ray services it also technically changes from ex raid radiology but I still call extract and we used to have a five hundred dollar limit that applied to both lab and X. ray this creates two separate five hundred dollar limits one for lab one for X. ray it also exempts recommendations by the United States public services task force and their a and B. recommendations which are generally preventive services recommendations things like colorectal screenings are mammograms will now be exempt from that limit. The questions for members. With the but without objection rules reviewed and approved and pharmacy manual. Yes these this is add update made pursuant to several acts passed by the last legislative session acts four oh six four seven four oh eight and five oh three I'm expands the pharmacist scope of practice allowing them to be prescriber for certain medications and treatment such as flea medications it also allows them to do some evaluation of the client so that they can prescribe. And we are working with the pharmacy association on this one and it will we're already allowing pharmacists to enroll as rendering providers so that this will be ready to go live with its effective are able questions from members. Without objection rules reviewed and approved. Thank you N. or member services division provider services while you're. Name and title for the record please mismatch warning Martinez Smith director the Division of provider services and quality assurance okay behavioral health agency certification thank you this first rule is A change the behavior health agency certification manual it is to implement ACT seven sixty which was passed in a previous session in the war we amend the definition of site to include that at jock and collect colocated sites are included. Any questions members. Without objection is reviewed and approved long term care facility so this next rule we made changes to the nursing home manual the assisted living facility one manual and the assisted living facility to manual these rule changes implement changes based on legislation ACT seven twenty one which was regarding the reason that the department could deny a license it describes requirements for annual licenses any change the responsibilities of sellers and buyers also as it is to pertaining to the nursing home manual we also clarified the direct care staffing manual rules which were also as a result of legislation passed during the session. A question for members. The objection rules reviewed and approved definition long term care facility. So the rule change here is regarding the adult day care rules that particular manual it was also as a result of acting nine oh five that was passed during the session we updated the definition of long term care facility to reflect that it does not include services for clients for hours and less per day for no more than two days per week they do not have to be licensed as a long term care facility in question members. The objection rules reviewed approved in home care giver. This will be a change to the self direction manual or independent choices as it already is known as well the changes here reflect ACT seven seventeen which was passed during the session that in home care givers must also have registry checks in addition to background checks and questions members. The objection the rules reviewed approved waiver of insurer licensure and fees. These changes were as a result of ACT seven twenty five past in a previous session we had to make changes that it in ATP the C. in a manual and the nursing home administrator manual of the rule in question was regarding a fee waiver for those individuals that receives UPS services up from snapper wicker attentive and we made the changes to reflect that they will receive a waiver if they are participates in any of those programs. The question members. Surjection road reviewed and approved thank you department of labor licensing. More generally if we could to get name and title for the record please. Ralph Hudson director of labor Arkansas department of labor licensing. I'm miles Morgan attorney department labor licensing agent for the administrative rules pertaining to the licensing of HVAC yeah there. To pretty up. The basic points the first is that we. Thank you see our rule for amended comply with statutes from the twenty twenty one session of the second piece of this is the board voted to increase liability insurance requirements for licensees to to a quarter million dollars to provide some level of consumer protection. All right Sir have. Where he can go ahead I'm sorry. Is you through that segment. Yes okay and I you get three segments or here I'll focus on the first but You've got a part in here on continuing education is part your own now. I don't. I can't remember. I mean what what I've read in here you're waving a fee for low income I don't that's fine. You're coming back in requiring insurance which is fine no I have a problem with continuing education what I want to know about when you find that tell me where we're going to get continuing education not rural Arkansas. What those were authorized by act nine seventy eight of twenty one I'm asking you as a governmental body. Where were I can direct constituents to to get their containing continuing education on H. back sure I think probably getting the Chief. Assam chief inspector Anthony water to come up here and answer that for you Sir thank you you sure. If you would name a tougher record please Sir. Chief inspector is the water department labor last. Serve the continuing education gonna be collaboration of the ins but specter bodies myself including the other inspectors in the H. back association Arkansas H. back association headed by Tom. In rural Arkansas where are people going to go get continuing education okay. So what we're doing. Use me well nervous the. We've got a seventeen organization distribution chain that has training facilities like elder rate it supply candid means out takes a cannon another distribution we're also using community training colleges in Camden elder radio magnolia we have space these out in a forty to thirty mile radius so most contractors do not have to travel any further than that to get their continuing education there how many in Arkansas how many Sir how many. Places as of right now we have seventeen we are also going to comply he named about what eight or nine other state supply of its supply has five or six located name anything in my area what is your areas are matters west central Arkansas west central Arkansas hot springs no it's a Waldron Waldron area okay water poured Fort Smith help or you can force me about forty five miles forty five mile or Smith has four locations okay you've got a J. and B. supply another and supply H. again I'm not I'm not against continuing education it's it's got to be something that that. Works with the industry and I realize that changing that we have men and blasts minister our family seventy two years. It in there more refrigerant changing going on right now than than I've heard of it but it is a problem and I've got a family member that's that's in it that took it in another state and in his license. I just want people to have access to the knowledge and not put the burden on the regulation and again I push back on this couple session three sessions ago because there was some dialogue it was just try to get those I didn't object this is passed thirty five to nothing in the Senate but. We have good intentions a lot of time we don't follow up and make it work so I would appreciate I'm not going to hold that flag over to Friday I'm not a whole is I would appreciate if one of the all that can answer some questions get with me between now and Friday yes Sir because I will be able to answer constructed which yeah we don't we absolutely and we can get you less to about that it's not that you have to but we're not knock you off some legislation back to the station to go out I've kind of would hope you would Include me in a conversation but that didn't that thank you. Thank you Mr. let me. Who communicates out to the HVAC license fees. These rules however how do they get that information so they know they've got to be in compliance with all this. There are multiple ways the associations involved in all regular HVAC are meeting Mr hunt is almost always in attendance in person we also have touch points across the state where the inspectors are out in the field and and communicate with them and course or meetings the date for you see our meetings are always public okay all right because I'd hate for somebody to get tag for something because I didn't know about it that's always we passed the bills in the legislation the rules and then the the guy sitting out there in a van just doing his job doesn't know it and also to get stagger it because he did have one of these so that that's my main concern is making sure they get it out there not just office friendly suggestion to Senator Rice as point is that map develop south maybe send it out to us and if you get it staff you know as you identify those touch points where they can go get the training and then we can push it out to reps and senators and if we get asked and we can help you get that information out there a list of each location throughout the state where they can get their training yes okay yes Senator Rapert you're talking about all right any other questions from members or anything else on we're we're still on a as a house on a. Without objection is rule reviewed and approved and then the repeal of administration roles pertains for cation eating yeah the three C. R. board repealed the licensing requirements for the municipal inspectors in the state along with the twenty five dollar fee. Okay a questions members. Thank gestione roles reviewed and approved and then section twenty three international mechanical code gathered for for amended simply to adopted twenty twenty one edition of the international mechanical code was last updated in twenty ten by the by the board and they they voted to go to the twenty twenty one mechanical codes and questions for members. That objections rule is reviewed and approved on ask for a quick question for you away from the table a construction project going on my HVAC guy told me gonna be twenty five percent ball because federal administrations decide to implement implementation of more eco friendly freon are you all familiar with that sure chief inspector has done yes Sir I am familiar with that and they rush that process along just a little bit. several US got gray hair we member nineteen eighty seven the Montreal protocol act when they pass the mandated to CSE call are fluorocarbons removing the ozone layer and we went to what they call sure on our fourteen day they're trying to do the same thing it's more of a butane mix but they are way behind the eight ball in just getting the materials to produce such region to tool and die all of the distributors even feel disappointment for this here to any state to ales such as senator was referring to a while ago all right well and I would expect anything else out of DC but if you if you need our help on some stuff we can do to push back on that thank you a room full of people be glad to help push back on that yes Sir stuff all right thank you thank you Mr chairman department of labor licensing division occupation fresh lesson Board but wait Senator Rice did you I'm sergeant rush. You want to buy it and I don't need him back I just want them to form the few still here you know when this stuff goes on and they rush it. There's things going on in the industry such as changing to a butane type gas is flammable any electrical parts in the appliance or product has to be changed in this supply crunch we got that's another part of the problem. And again as you said the administration of fresh is the the people at set working on paper it's not working down stream thank you thank you. A name and tougher record please measured and director of the obstructive or. And again miles Morgan attorney at the part of our labor and high syncing okay got to run the abstract third board please answer the rules are amended to comply with legislation from twenty nineteen and twenty twenty one our Long along with grammar and stylistic updates to the rules if you have any questions pertaining to these rules I'd be happy to answer them questions members. With the objections rules reviewed approved thank you. And the Department labor licensing. Motor vehicle commission. Again miles Morgan Department labor licensing attorney okay. Morning I'm saying the strip on the Director of the Arkansas motor vehicle commission department of labor licensing K. A. M. P. zero three please. This is. They're all in one group yes you're okay your honor Mr chairman of the the rules were amended the commission's rules amended regarding dealership manufacturing manufactures and advertising of the commission added an extra layer of protection for consumers by ensuring that dealerships have the vehicles they advertise either on the line or the manufactures invoice guaranteeing the delivery of the advertised vehicle to the dealer another rule is amended to remove the licensing fee for out of state sales persons pursuant to the change may by ACT five oh four of twenty twenty one which removed a licensing requirements for motor vehicle sales persons and also along with that five oh four of the Commission rules regarding education and grant training program ACT five oh four twenty twenty one minute the program and put into statute all the requirements regarding that program there for the rules of the Commission no longer get the role. A question members. Just curious about the reality this cause I got friends are in the business and and they can't get cars a lot and if if I mean they're gone before they get their their pre ordered how how in real house second be realistic about the advertising thing where dealer doesn't get hit now the first Mr Mr Pierce the director thank you yes Sir what this is really doing is this is allowing the dealer to advertise products this is in the pipeline of prior to that we had a rule that said you had to have the vehicle on your lot in order to be able advertisement and that was to prevent a bait and switch situation someone could advertise I've got a car here for twenty nine ninety five and you get there is not there it's never been there so this rules on our books to stop that bait and switch advertising will now we since dealers don't have any inventory what we did is went back and revise the rule very slightly just to say if it's in transit basically in other words that the manufacturer has told the dealer you're going to get this car then the dealer can advertise that vehicle okay thank you distortion. Without objection the rules reviewed approved thank you all thank you for. Per labor licensing. Real estate. Name title for the record please. Thank you Mr chairman of the committee my name is Andrea offered I'm the executive director of the Arkansas real estate commission. In a waiver of application fees first yes Sir rule three point four waiver of fees is responsive to ACT seven twenty five of twenty twenty one which required agencies to promulgate rules to waive certain fees for license applicants who receive certain state benefits or fall below two hundred percent of the federal poverty income guidelines. The questions members. Subject to the rules reviewed approved role point four point five thank you rules four point five six point one eleven point one are responsive to act one thirty five of twenty twenty one which provides for automatic licensure for uniformed service members veterans and their spouses as well as an extension of certain expiration dates for licenses and a full exemption from certain education requirements for deployed uniformed service member or spouse during deployment and reentry. Any questions for members. Your honor for point six next after this right you just to do that are okay yes all right without objection rules reviewed improved rule four point six. Thank you role for what rule four point six is responsive to ACT seven forty eight of twenty twenty one and therefore amended to reflect that offenses previously considered permanently disqualifying are now considered disqualifying offenses for which an applicant must obtain a waiver in order to hold a license questions remembers. Subsection rules reviewed and approved four point seven. Rule four point seven is responsive to ACT seven forty six of twenty twenty one and establishes that individuals holding a federal form I. seven sixty six USCIS employment authorization document or work permit and who otherwise fulfill licensure requirements will be issued a licensed by the Arkansas real estate commission. push button there Senator Johnson. Senator Johnson. Thank you Mr chairman at. Does this mean that if someone. Theoretically comes in under one of these federal programs which are to bring in labor. Generally these are professional life has engineers from out from another country that they would automatically be able to be a licensed real estate agent or broker check correct. What is that I'm a maybe that's not what this rules about lesser to clarify under this rule they the individuals would have to fulfill all of the other requirements for licensure just like a standard applicant would this rule just clarifies that if they have an employment authorization document or work permit then they can be granted a license. And and I think in normal circumstances that's just fine but it's usually these of permits are because we have a shortage in particular disciplines something tells me we don't have a shortage of licensed real estate agents of Arkansas at I'm just wondering what the the purpose is and course you didn't write legislation you just administering rules but could you help me understand that I can certainly try so my understanding is that there were there were some boards whose whose rules did not allow them to issue a license to an applicant who held a work permit and so the legislation was necessary to. To require that licensing entities would be able to issue those licences to individuals who hold a work permit under our current practices we we don't have any such prohibiting rule but since rulemaking was required by the act we went ahead and promulgated the rules to clarify that we would issue a license okay and I I think I understand if you would help me on this This was a bill this is an act that was much broader than just the real estate commission covered other licensing labor licensing bodies and they all had to do what you're doing this rule yes Sir that is my understand okay that's on the nose thank you Mr chairman thank you thank you just quick question a federal work permit who's that issue to individuals that come from outside the country. Do you know if. I don't want to step outside my area of expertise but my understanding is that it it would be to Daca recipients and non citizens okay so my question then would be could somebody come from outside the country have a federal work permit coming Arkansas grant a license so real estate without ever having been through any courses in Arkansas about real estate no Sir they would still have to meet the requirements for licensure that's all on here thank you any other questions. Thank you without objection is rules reviewed approved three thirteen point one rule thirteen point one is responsive to ACT seven thirty three of twenty twenty one which is this which establishes a registration requirement for time share interest transfer services providers who operate in the state the proposed amended rule will establish the registration and renewal fees and the bond requirements amount bond requirement amounts as set forth in the act. The questions from members. The objection rules reviewed approved thank you thank you chairman thank you members of labor licensing state were registration for professional geologist. Morning name and title for the record please. Good morning Mr chairman Committee thank you Kelly black the director of the board of registration for professional geologists okay the morning rules for a state board registration please and yes Sir these rules we're to ensure that the rules in the statutes married each other as well as the twenty twenty one required legislative changes. No questions a question for members. The objection rules reviewed approved thanks for being here sworn thank you afternoon now of parks and recreation or parks heritage and tourism please. Afternoon ladies name and title for the record please. A good afternoon I'm Leslie Fisk in Chief of legislative affairs for parks heritage and tourism. Action. Yes my name is Deborah Ferguson of the grants manager for the division of Arkansas heritage or you'll present your real please yes we're here percent tax seven seven seven for the Arkansas cultural institutions trust fund we're here to present the rules that this Act created a grant program and were created were establishing the grant program and an application process for cultural institutions with major capital improvement projects the rules cover the Committee evaluators the evaluation factors and distribution that these include estimated economic and tourism impact on the area that the project will have availability of other funds that the project would have an overall project cost these factors will also consider items such as tax revenue generated by the project number of visits potentially that could happen out the cultural institution or that are presently occurring jobs created in the area currently we are aware of probably for institution cultural institutions in the state in different parts of the state. That have made a capital improvement projects that include the Arkansas museum of fine arts the marshals museum the sole ten a museum and the Cold War museum. Okay happy to answer any questions a question for members the. Senator Solomon. Thank you Mr chair appreciate you meeting earlier today do you have any idea when those funds will be transferred. Well currently there's no funding for this project but right now we anticipate that parks here to trust them we may have a limited amount of excess funds from our conservation tax fund and we're gonna look at the at the beginning of the next fiscal year to Sir okay what funds we can transfer okay understand thank you thank you Mr welcome any other questions. Without objection is rules reviewed and approved thank you thank you for public safety state police. Afternoon name in time for the record please. Good morning good afternoon five my name is John Shipley ritual closer please thank you. My name is John Shipley I'm counsel for the department of public safety. Lindsey Williams my major with state police over the regulatory division and service state fire marshal also. Mike Moyer service captain in the regulatory division for state police okay okay three roles in the licensure regulation private investigators first please. These rules are amended to incorporate at seven forty six of twenty twenty one acts one thirty five of twenty twenty one ACT seven twenty five of twenty twenty one and two for the addition also includes an addition of an approved course for qualification process. Right there were no public comments happy to answer questions and questions from members. Third junction road reviewed and approved use motor dealer licensing rules these rules were amended to also incorporate ACT seven twenty five use me of of twenty twenty one X. one thirty five of twenty twenty one and there were no public comments but I'm happy to answer questions all right we got some questions of the representative Cavenaugh thank you I'm over here to your right dealing with the Fay waivers. And this is coming from forty four years of experience in the dealership airtrain we have fought for years of an issue of people being able to what we would refer to as curbside in vehicles that they're not really a licensed dealer and they just sale from their home and I know we allow so many of that to happen I think it's five a year or something like that but for years we have thought that that there's well more than there's a lot of people say a lot more than five cars. Privately. And they're technically making their livelihood by selling these cars and they're not licensed. Do you think that this is going to create that problem to be even worse and the reason I bring this out is someone who is a dealer we have to invest in all this you know. Property we have to invest in floor plan where divest and and a lot of different things. But when we have those people who don't do that then they're not bound by the same laws that we are as dealers as licensed dealers and there's no consumer protection for them. Do you all think that way then this fade and this and I understand the need to wait for users or lots of good reasons to why phase but when you're someone who's selling the second most. You know high priced there to consumers probably gonna by next to their home is going to be there vehicle. Whether it's new or used in these current prices. It is high now. But we're waiving the fee for people that our Medicaid snap. they've been on unemployment. Are they going to have the where for all to be able to run a business where they're going to be able to do all the requirements beyond just the fate so I guess that's my question. Thank you rest presented for your questions and and yes we do required back seven twenty five to waive that fee but I'll let major Lindsey Williams answer the question as to their procedures for their licensing. Yes thank you that is mischievously said this this was a result of legislation that was passed the fee waiver we do certainly recognize the the issue that you described in unfortunately it's very difficult to to always determine who those people are they're selling more than the five the calls in we have to rely upon complaints that come in from individuals or from other dealers to to bring that to our attention is is virtually impossible to just be out patrolling in this spot those things so we do have to allow net but we do certainly recognize that concerning that issue okay because I mean it's a growing issue I can't tell you how many times in my business I get calls from consumers and as a legislator saying I purchased this vehicle it brought down to maybe thirty miles after I bought it what I want to take it back to the person I bought him like I don't there's no laws as a private sale and so we just need to be wary of some of these things and I'm not a fan of fees and any things but there are certain times that we have to at least make sure that the person that is selling something has the ability to do rest of the obligations that they did which is to make sure they get the title make sure that they can be there when the consumer has an issue so as we go for it I like to work with the odd because there's some things that the industry has always wanted to do to make sure that we can weed out the bad players thank you for the good players so consumers are protected yes ma'am and we would be be very interested in hearing any any complaints that you may receive from a constituent that you could bring to our attention and we could investigate that in with the certainly open to discussing any any remedies for this that you might have thank you yes my. Any other questions members. It is the intent of this that those that are snap recipients successor of would not have to pay that fee is that the whole point of it yes Sir that is the point are you able to cross over to like to partner workforce services or the agencies actually handle those kind of programs to crossmatch you measures can be kind of hard to keep up and you know you got a kind of. Trust people to call in if they got a complaint. Well I thank you I think there's maybe two separate to concerns their issues one is the those people that are there selling these five vehicles and some on the been doing this even before this legislation in fee waiver was passed but we don't really have much control over the over the fee waiver since it was a part of the legislation. If you just get the temporary tags off the road any other any other questions. Without objections rules reviewed and approved and on to. C.. Okay the fire technician fire prevention code chairman We it with this is to revise and adopt a a newer version we're currently under the twenty twelve addition of the fire prevention code Arkansas fire prevention code we're moving to the twenty twenty one this is necessary for a number of reasons public safety it also impacts insurance rates the initially that individuals with a and in communities and so we did have a public hearing that will hit a thirty day public comment period we only received comments from one individual during that the comment period written comments we had a public hearing two people attended that public hearing but no comments were offered during that we carefully reviewed the written public comments that we received several of the comments from that individual or related to punctuation or grammar errors that we do not cage so we made adjustments for those a couple of suggestions were made is for is wording in we incorporated those and then there were a couple of suggestions that we we did not feel was in the best interest to to incorporate I responded in writing to the submitter of those comments explaining in detail our position on each one of them and I even followed up with a a verbal conversation with him and I think he's satisfied with that so that was pretty much it. The questions remembers. This grandfather in those existing units that are out there are they gonna be treated. Well what happens is if the if I building or facility was constructed under a previous code in there are no changes to that to that facility then is entitled to exist under the requirements that were in place when it when it started its existence if it's modified if it's added on to or if there's a change of use of that building then it would fall under the under the new code. So an existing storage facility that added on would have to update the whole thing at that point is that correct or mark every a you front like a mini storage that is at now what this applies to your well this this is going to be this encompasses all taps of occupancies now with respect to the mini storages with actually relaxed the requirements for self storage units we were planning to do that when we were looking at adopting the twenty eighteen international codes but the pandemic and other things the lady that adoption we're now moving to the twenty twenty one additions in the twenty twenty one international codes relaxed the requirements for self storage units they can now be up to twelve thousand square feet okay before sprinkler is required if they have fixed year axis okay thank you I just know they're going up all over the places and just want to know for the call came in any questions for me other members. Without objection the rule is reviewed and approved of financial thank you all. Treasure. I am a title for the record please. Good afternoon I'm Fran Jansen and I'm the director of the Arkansas five to nine plan as well as educational financial education programs for the treasurer's office I'm TJ Feller legal counsel for the treasury. Including president please T. J. and are here today to present brand new rules for that will govern the newly formed Arkansas financial Education Commission which was established by act ten twenty five of the twenty twenty one legislative session I'd like to know what we did not receive any comments during the public comment period following the publication of the rules and we welcome any questions you may have at this time any questions from members. Okay without objection this rule is reviewed and approved thank you very much thank you all thank you Mr. Members next we have some rules recommend the expedited process and procedure for occupational licensure of uniformed servicemembers veterans and their spouses pursuant to act one thirty five twenty twenty one this is a preliminary review prior to the public comment period the rules will return to the subcommittee for review and approval after the public comment period expires like if someone for the agency please come up and do so for the record and explain the proposed rules. An. Shortage good yeah thank you chairman I appreciate it miles Morgan attorney the Department of Arkansas labor licensing the athletic commission's current rules require licensees this is submit a blood draw or blood work before participating in it it participating in combat fi that's the reason for the expedited licensure as opposed to an automatic lights licensure for a participant in one of those fights the commission also check the database to ensure that that licensees not barred in another state from fighting for for whatever for any reason and that's not take any questions of any questions for members. With the objections rules review thank you thank you miss very much of the next item on the agenda will be to make a monthly written updates percent ACT five ninety five twenty twenty one as you recall these are agencies updates regarding the status of the rule making the implement teen twenty twenty one legislation and just ask if anybody has any questions. Then if there's no objections we will file the may updates and one appreciate all the offer stick around today and just being patient with plows new ground with the previous role and so I appreciate all the in patient with no further business for the subcommittee of this meeting is adjourned.