Legislative Joint Auditing

Thank everybody for being here today of first order of business is it option the minutes of the September ninth two thousand twenty two meeting think everybody's seen those via email any questions or concerns with those minutes. All right well no objection then we will law adopt those minutes. Next on the agenda the adoption reports to the executive and standing committees I will go first by reading a report from the executive committee. The executive committee met Thursday October thirteenth two thousand twenty two staff reported to the committee the audit special investigative insurers report scheduled to be presented to the standing committees and for legislative joint auditing committee this month in New business the committee took no action on a request from the mayor of the city of Helena West Helena for staff to conduct selected procedures relating to transactions involving the city treasurer. In other business the committee adopted a motion for staff review selected consulting contract for city school district. With no additional business to discuss the meeting was adjourned the next meeting of the committee is scheduled for Thursday December first two thousand twenty two and I moved for adoption this report. Any questions. Comments. May I have a second. I have a second all those in favor of adoption say aye All opposed no thank you to stand up to. next on the agenda representative route you're recognized. Thank you Mr chairman Legislative Joint Arjun Committee standing committee counties and municipalities made or October thirteenth two thousand twenty two the Committee adopted the minutes of the September rate to twenty twenty two meeting the Committee reviewed none reports differed from the September eighth two thousand twenty two meeting officials from three entities were present address repeat findings from those reporters three page a previously deferred reports for filed and six were deferred to the December one two thousand twenty two meeting the Committee reviewed fifty six current reports of these four were referred to the governmental bonding board and eight were or other reports referred to the prosecuting attorney's officials from two entities were present to address repeat findings in our current report the Committee filed fifty two current report and deferred three so that officials could attend the December one twenty twenty two meeting to address repeat findings the Committee also referred one current before so that officials could attend the December second twenty twenty two meeting to address findings Mr chairman I move for adoption this reports or thank you representative any questions or comments concerns not report. Are may have a second production. You have one all those in favor say aye All opposed no. Thank you that will stand up. next up representative Barry you're recognized. Thank you Mr chairman the standing committee on educational institutions. Met yesterday October the thirteenth two thousand twenty two the committee reviewed a total of eight alright we're reports which consist of seven school district reports and one higher education report for the year ending June thirty two thousand twenty one representatives from northwest Arkansas community colleges were present and answer questions from the committee related to a repeat finding in college audit report the superintendent Fordyce school district was present and answer questions from the committee related to a repeat finding in the district's audit report. The Committee filed the eight audit reports that were brought before. This time Mister chairman I ask for a. Adoption of this report thank you representative any questions or comments on that report. C. N. nine may have a second production on a motion we have a of all those in favor of not to say aye All opposed no all right thank you that was an adopted. next up senator Hammer you're recognized. Thank you Mr chairman I reports were on the committee's agenda yesterday to reports with findings were presented for the standing committee on state agencies the department Human Services had five findings related to a duplicate payments various issues of cash receding receding expenditure documentation issue Arkadelphia human development center incorrect postings of the investment activity to foster care counts and insufficient documentation of funds expended for the community outreach program their part of agriculture did not adequately monitor sub recipients of the Arkansas meat poultry processing grant program resulting in funds being disbursed for on allowable purposes various agency staff members were present to report on how the agencies intended to address the audit findings and to answer committee questions during the meeting the Committee adopt a motion to file the ten reports in addition the committee agreed to get an update at our next meeting on the progress of DHS community outreach program Mr chairman I move for the adoption of this report thank you senator any other questions comments concerns with that report. C. N. nine may have a second his motion. We have that all those in favor adoption say aye All opposed no thank you. Our next on the agenda is a review of reports and first one up is a Mister Davis you're recognized. Thank you Mr. This report read reviews law enforcement agencies compliance with the asset. Seizure. And for the requirements of the uniformed trolled substances act for the year ended December thirty first twenty twenty one. Asset forfeitures when you since nineteen seventy one to help prevent vehicles and other property of drug traffickers from being used in the commission of subsequent offenses during the night late nineteen nineties Legislative became concerned that a lack of uniformity and accountability and forfeiture procedures across the state was undermining confidence in the process during the nineteen ninety nine meeting of the Arkansas General Assembly ACT eleven twenty was enacted to address these concerns they're the amendment of the uniform controlled substance act. The forfeiture process as shown on the slide exhibit three on page three of the report Arkansas Code provides that within forty eight hours of an asset seizure the season officer shall file an original confiscation report with the seizing law enforcement agency for maintenance in a separate file. Within three days of receiving the report the seizing agency shall forward a copy of the report to the prosecuting attorney for the district in which the property received and the Arkansas Drug Director for entry in the asset seizure tracking system. Schedule one on page five of the of the report provides a summary of seized assets for county or twenty twenty one for all judicial districts including the amount of cash automobiles firearms and other items. For example as shown on the slide in the second judicial district over four hundred fifty six thousand dollars in cash nineteen vehicles fifty three firearms and five other assets were seized in twenty twenty one. For the entire state approximate five point seven million dollars four hundred vehicles five hundred and thirty four firearms and seventy one other items were seized over the past ten years over sixty million dollars nearly forty eight hundred vehicles and forty nine hundred firearms have been seized. The map on the slide in an exhibit one on page two the report shows the seven judicial districts selected for testing to conduct the review to seizure incidences in each district were chosen from the asset seizure tracking system. Alters tries to seize assets recorded in the asset seizure tracking system to the supporting confiscation report and verified required procedures had been followed in the disposition of the seized assets additionally one confiscation report was randomly selected from the agency and tries to the asset seizure tracking system to ensure all seized assets have been properly reported. Finally one seized asset was randomly selected from the agency's evidence room and tries to the ANC's confiscated inventory records. All assets selected for testing were accounted for however exception recordkeeping were noted at five of the fourteen agencies reviewed. All. As listed on page three of the report the Greene County sheriff's office in the Camden police department did not maintain adequate sees property inventory records the Camden police department did not maintain a separate file original confiscation reports the shared employees department did not file a confiscation report with the Drug Director within three business days the fourteenth judicial district prosecuting attorney's office in the Eureka springs police department possessed assets for which a complaint was not filed within sixty days after the prosecuting attorney receives the confiscation report. For each confiscated confiscation file selected for review that is still pending in court during fieldwork legislative audit staff continue to periodically follow up on the seized asset until his court order dispositions finalized listed on the slide and discussed on page for the report of two instances in which the disposition of a seized asset has not occurred due to the length of time that has passed legislative audit staff will no longer continue to monitor the assets to its final disposition. Mr they conclude my presentation and consideration time the presence of agency officials was not requested a I'll be happy to answer any questions. Thank you miss those or any questions from committee members. representative Mayberry you're recognized. Thank you Mr chair where you have the Sheraton police department did not file a confiscation report with the Arkansas Drug Director within three business days did they file one at all and it was just late or they didn't file it. On that one I'm I'm pretty sure they life file but I can get the documentation to you and let you know for sure okay it just wasn't within the time frame but they did actually file it. Thank I believe so yes okay. Thank you. Any other questions. All right thank you. we will move on to our next report law enforcement agencies compliance with tobacco seizure and forfeiture requirements for the year ended December thirty first two thousand twenty one Mister Davis you're recognized. Thank you Mr this letter reports law enforcement agencies calendar year twenty twenty one compliance. can your twenty one compliance with the S. decision for future crimes of Arkansas Code twenty six fifty seven to forty seven a co provides forfeiture procedures for tobacco products upon which the full amount of excise tax due is not paid or which were possessed or sold by an unlicensed wholesaler or retailer in addition the property and money used to facilitate a criminal violation code for the manufacture distribution of contraband tobacco products may be seized and forfeited to the state. According to Arkansas comeback of tobacco control no tobacco related asset seizures occurred in county or twenty one in addition let's save our staff followed up on seizures that were outstanding in the prior year to ensure agency compliance with code requirements and no instances of noncompliance were noted as a result of staff procedures Mr that concludes my report happy take any questions. Thank you any questions from committee. All right we will. I move on to the next next one is the cost benefit analysis of selected economic incentive projects for January first two thousand twelve through December thirty first two thousand twenty one. you are recognized to present that report. Thank you Mr cherry the consolidating the Senate back to two thousand three combined existing economic incentives and to for statutory and five discretionary incentive programs legislative audit is required to prepare a cost benefit analysis of the economic incentive projects each year. The objectives of this report or to evaluate the controls over the awarding issuance of incentives by the Arkansas Economic Development Commission and the department of finance and administration. As well as to determine the overall effectiveness of the CIA programs an individual projects review. This chart which appears on page five of the report shows the distribution of CIA finds by incentive tight statutory incentives which make up eighty percent of the incentives awarded for the time period are awarded to any qualifying business that applies for the funds and discretionary incentives that make up the remaining twenty percent of incentives awarded are awarded at the discretion of ADC. I also want to point out the ACT three sixty two of two thousand and seventeen began the process of phasing out the investor program which made up sixty two percent of the incentives awarded for this time period. As shown on the top of page three of the report ADC has divided the state's seventy five counties into for two years these tier rankings determine the payroll in investment thresholds that are required to receive certain incentives and are assigned annually based on current factors including poverty rate unemployment rate per capita income and population growth with tier one representing the most prosperous counties and tear for representing the counties with the greatest need for economic development. on the next four slides we're going to show a breakdown of how the seven hundred five point six million there was a was awarded a marks the for two years for January two thousand and twelve through December of two thousand and twenty one. The tier one counties make up fifty six point seven percent of the state's population there C. seventy two point two percent of discretionary funds and forty five point eight percent of statutory funds awarded. Tier two counties make up nineteen point seven percent of the state's population they receive seventeen point six percent of total discretionary funds and fifteen point three percent of statutory funds awarded. Tier three counties make up eleven point five percent of the state's population and they received four point nine percent of discretionary funds and twenty one point five percent of statutory funds awarded. And tear for counties make up eleven point nine percent of the state's population and they receive five point two percent of discretionary funds and seventeen point two percent of statutory funds awarded. Next we're gonna look at how the same seven hundred five point six million was awarded a marks each region of the state. The central region makes up thirty five point five percent of the state's population there C. forty two point two percent of discussion funds and eighteen percent of the statutory funds awarded. The northwest region makes up thirty three point two percent of the state's population they receive twenty two percent of discretionary funds and thirty three point eight percent of statutory funds. The northeast region. Is fourteen point nine percent of the state's population they received twelve point nine percent of discretionary funds and fifteen point one percent of statutory funds. The southwest region makes up seven point two percent of the state's population they received eighteen point one percent of discretionary funds and seventeen point three percent of statutory funds awarded. And the southeast region which makes up nine percent of the state's population received four point three percent of discretionary funds and fifteen point eight of statutory funds. Next we're going to look at the projects that we reviewed this year. Of for this year's report we reviewed both Investar can non invest our projects with over one billion dollars spent on eligible program costs by the companies that received incentives and over sixteen hundred new full time jobs were created. With the cannulation of data from the projects reviewed in prior years as well as the projects reviewed for this year's report we have drawn conclusions about the cost effectiveness of the entire programs as shown in exhibit six of the report and on this side. Three of the four statutory incentives as well as the create rebate a job creation discretionary incentive resulting in a positive cost benefit to the state. For the next three programs highlighted with inconclusive to terminate. More incentives will have to be awarded under these programs and reviewed before we can draw conclusions about their effectiveness. The next to programs highlighted on the slide we have concluded result in a negative cost benefit to the state they are the statutory and discretionary research and development programs. And both of those Prague programs have been altered legislatively with Act three twenty seven of two thousand and nineteen. And. More time will have to pass for these programs and we will review those under the new guidelines. And that is the last side here summarizes Act three twenty seven of two thousand and nineteen that alter those programs one of the biggest changes or are the supply expenses which led to some of the larger incentives in the past are no longer allowed. Mister chair that concludes my presentation and we have officials from ADC and if a president to answer committee questions thank you all right thank you Sir are there any questions from committee on this report. Senator Elliott you're recognized. Mister chair I just. Like to here from ADC. Their thoughts about. With all this actually means in the big scheme of things what you would be getting rid from their perspective since their carrying it out and so forth just. What is this mean to them what do they recommend to the legislature and why thank you yes you guys make your way to the table. Are you in mind for the record to identify yourself and your affiliation please and then you can answer this question give or Mr chairman committee jim Hudson chief of staff Parma commerce. A good morning Clint o'neal deputy director Arkansas Economic Development Commission. Good morning Senator Elliot I heard your question one we think it's a very fair report it's always comprehensive I appreciate L. A. you know staffing this report with the consist of personnel because they understand expect technical in terms of the program parameters I think it does accurately assess for the projects that reviewed what the relative cost benefit analysis was I think if you look at the negative ones with negative CBA's as indicated earlier we've already change that program we recommended the legislature change that back in twenty nineteen and you all did do that so that we're gonna be assessing less expenses supply expenses going forward and really incentivizing growth in wages that we were that tax credit you what measures going forward so we think it to this is a fair report we appreciate the work that went into it and beyond that I'm not sure you know what else to add to it well I. Actually that's actually I wasn't asking about the fairness of the report I was asking you about your assessment this report tells us what it tells us is in I guess the bottom line is there are we spending our money wisely here on every program are there some we ought to just get rid of. Is what I'm what I'm asking which is all this worth keeping with what we need yes ma'am okay so. Okay and and the second question I had about was is about the distribution everywhere because when you put everything together I'm not sure if I'm clear on this I see a piece here a piece there which I understand the nature of that if it's being distributed. In a manner in all parts of the state that we need to rethink you think you've got that you got that down well let's for example looking at the region's. central Arkansas gets twenty two percent at one point and and I look at a place some of the places around the state are we invest and where there is already a big investment or do we need to invest more in areas where we continue to say there's nothing. I do think in a public cloud speak to as well because he he runs our business development group I do think the geographic distribution is is good it is not overly concentrated it does tend to correlate relatively tightly with population I think that's a good thing the second thing is what we'll stop you right there it's a good thing relative to population Then how does. I have a region that is really suffering if they get the same proportionate amount of money where there is a very low population are they consigned to for ever being low population because of the way we are handling our incentives. Sure and it just to kind of complete my thought on that you know. The incentive programs are not like a grant program. Where we may look at an application from a geographic area of the state and and deem them you know where the receiving a grant funds it's good project to send to them you know we really aren't responsive mode and so a lot of it has to do were with where the economic activity is yes and the relative strength of those economic activities and so it's employer first and foremost that is a potential employer making the decision about where it would like to locate in this state and so for us you know we need to take into account what their wishes are because ultimately we are measuring the benefits to the state of Arkansas and you know we do wanna you know incentivize growth in jobs and growth in wages in Arkansas and so it yes the clearly there are areas that are you know that suffer in our state there's no doubt about that those parts of the state we do try to help in ways that we can that maybe they're not getting incentive dollars but maybe they're getting more grant dollars collect Clint and my apologies for just centering on incentive dollars because I'm really talking about the whole basket okay. With. Thank you Sir for the question I a yeah I think it's it's framed up in terms of financial assistance that we provide to communities with with community based grants purses and seven dollars that go to spur economic activity directly with companies we're looking at the CIA incentives which do not account for a lot of our entrepreneurship type program so we're looking at incentives that we provide to existing companies and companies that we recruit might be interesting to to look at at layering the the difference between those two overall your your question. So a lot of this includes information on Investar which we know is a as a tool for companies that are investing a significant amount of money oftentimes. House in terms of a retention incentive but but it wasn't always like that so As you ask you know what we might be missing kind of big picture things to be thinking about there are certainly opportunities in rural areas that we have been challenged by by not having the investor program understand why we don't have the investor program it was very costly to the state and there's a lot of reasons for good reasons of a wise decision that the legislature made an adjustment on that but we do miss out on opportunities to provide impact to rule areas because Investar was taken off the table and so looking at the four statutory incentives of Investar commands Arkansas take back in the in house research and development investor was taken off the table Investar are the in house research and development was moved to a discretionary incentive which was a a very wise decision. so we're left with advantage Arkansan tax back as or to statutory programs here so I've done the economic development work in economic development in Arkansas Missouri and certainly studied a lot of other states compared to other states I would say we have pretty weak statutory programs and we have very robust discretionary incentive program so we're we're able to compete with any other state on our discretionary programs. Statutory programs alone with events Arkansan tax back we do not compete well with what other states provide with statutory only incentive programs so it's a it's it's really on us to to make wise decisions with the tools that we have on discretionary programs to be able to compete well. Has the subject of quality of life ever been on on the menu with the ETC to discuss in terms of economic development or is it simply about dollars in dollars out. And this is something I know you probably maybe haven't been asked before I get that. And the second thing is has adequacy when it comes to education ever been on the table as a part of the responsibility for a ETC can help. And I've never been able to connect and get people to connect those dots that we come into the Education Committee and we wrangle every time we have a study and we talk about how much money we're putting into education and I think that is directly because nobody talks about it except the Education Committee. And we are now looking at some other schools that might need to be closed because we have not. Develop them economically. And then we say because nobody's there everybody's Leding we've got a closes school or and we put labels on schools because they are not economically developed where people can remain there will move their. And I would really like for up for you to think about what it means is this entire state that we end up closing schools not have quality of life that we need these of the. The economic development commission. And it's not just you it's every other commission out there too we are laboring trying to do things in a committee that can't answer all of the issues because there's such a thing as economic development there is housing there's infrastructure all these things we can't solve their. What do you think you could play a role in the quality of schools in this state because people want to live there the quality of life is better do you think I'm in left field is that something you think could ever take up and think about. Well I mean certainly is important since the General your question of you know is quality of life throughout the state in important concept in absolutely is you know everyone we care about all Arkansans you know economic developers are not just in urban areas or rural areas as well they are working diligently to you know bring economic opportunities to their areas Glendower just up in Mississippi County last week or excuse me yesterday and last week entered US steel and seen what Mississippi County has done there in its it's great that US steel is made the decisions it has but you know I think we don't want to rob Mississippi County of the hard work you've put into making itself a viable county to come in so you know we do think while your wife issues are incredibly important which is why we have other programs and ADC that support quality of life issues eighteen million dollars a year every single year for CDBG going into carbon guttering and you know paving sidewalks and helping on improving quality of life removing blight were weekend those are important issues to us and to the extent that you know we have resource provided to us by the General Assembly to do more along those lines we would love to do more but it is important to us no doubt about that well I would never be guilty of a suggesting that we should take something from somebody else to give to another county that's that that's not a part of my thinking yes it might might think in though is with that one no I don't originally I ask should we be district in these dollars according to population should we be S. maybe spending these dollars and I'm more what I want I want a thoughtful because I think your thoughtful in a in a different way however we are spending it we keep closing down rule Arkansas. And I just don't think that's a good thing nor is it sustainable for the state and I'm not trying to beat up on you guys it's something that we don't address collectively and it's just been going on that way for years because the things you mentioned are great. But is that all that's needed or is that exactly what is needed is something I'd like you to consider. Thank you thank you. Thank you Senator of represents bringer you're recognized for a question. Good morning thank you Mr chair I would just like to inquire about four can I find more information about these incentive programs the law is that on this bill it pays fine like the statutory was in the discretion discretionary ones that are listed here thank you Investar invented Arkansas the taxpayer in house research and development in the discretionary ones are art plus create rebate in house research and development taught me business payroll tax credit not so forth is that will does be found specifically on your website yes ma'am public. Yes ma'am with the exception of Investar Investar is is an incentive program that's no longer on the books so it's not promoted on our website as available incentives yeah I think one thing that that. The report I don't say it over simplifies it's it's it's a great reports written as it should be but you know the report explains the application process as a company applies for a discretionary incentive. there there are months of conversations that go on prior to that point so I wouldn't want anybody to think that we're just sitting back in a reactive mode hoping that people apply for applications and then we're looking at the paperwork and making decisions on. How to respond to those applications your business development team is actively engaged with each of these companies with conversations around real estate around workforce around the. The business cost from cost of labor taxes the entire structure before we get down to talking about in center programs and providing guidance on. And statutory versus discretionary programs which ones would create a win win scenario for the state of Arkansas for the company okay okay I think you have yes P. you're kind of going into my the second part of my question thank you Mr chair as to how it is that you focus of in the different parts of the state or on the company's of the individuals that you need to be talking to so what is that process that you have implemented in order to ensure that people were around the state of Arkansas I understand that these programs are available at that they should do whatever necessary in order to receive this type funding I'm I guess that's my question yes you know a couple thoughts on that so. From a relationship standpoint it's very important to us to have good relationships with our local economic development organizations are community partners and so we do a lot of work through our community development division and others to create good partnerships around the state. Use me all right to just kind of get the the pulse of what's going on in in communities our largest division at ABC is our existing business resource division we have business managers and they partner closely with the Arkansas manufacturing solutions team of the business managers go out there tasked with getting to know companies around the state so by region of most of our employees are in Little Rock we have we have a few field offices and and people scattered around the state but you know we we recognize that we work for the state of Arkansas is is jim said we were traveling yesterday a lot of our team travels out about frequently getting to know companies because jobs are gonna come from entrepreneurs from existing businesses and for recruiting new ones the bulk of those jobs are going to come from existing businesses so that that's our primary strategy is is how do we get out and figure out ways to help our existing businesses the number one tool is through workforce development any time that we ask companies what's your barrier to growth there's a lot of answers there sometimes some specific regulations or some some regulatory matters or or other problems that we can help solve you know with within state government sometimes there are supply chain issues that that we can contribute to or or provide resources for but but you know primarily these days it's workforce development it's sometimes we want to grow as we know there's eighty thousand open jobs in the state of Arkansas how do we fill those you know whether that means getting people to move to those areas are creating better pipelines with the K. twelve system into the local companies so that's a big part of it and then from a business recruitment the you know that that's kind of a whole different arena of the tactics that we take from lead generation and identifying key industries in the state going out to trade shows getting to know a company's and site selection consultants the represent companies and and it on those projects it's really more we're competing with other states we're presenting real estate options were were presenting opportunities within the state we're we're fighting to stay on the short list within the state we're certainly not steering companies toward certain regions of the state but you know primarily I'd go back to you know helping those existing businesses Mister chair may I just ask how many individuals are we speaking of that you're talking about that go across the state the there are within your department how many persons are we talking about that do that work that you just mention yes we have we've with five business managers on our existing business resource team with our Arkansas manufacturing solutions group there are there are. Four I believe that that are actively out in the field doing work with of four individuals on our community development team that are split by by four regions of the state and that our business development team that they're really the ones that once a project has been identified they're going out working that competitive project and so we have currently three project managers a director business development US building and site coordinator and and a business development coordinator so and in a research manager this within the business development team so seven on that team and a couple spots that that we like to feel there's will. Thank you thank you Mr thank you conservation of represent a clue or you're recognized for a question. All thank us senator Elliots and representative Springer further questions because you know this is something that we talked about a little bit of looking at the county tier map I don't have an exact count but it looks like parks we have for the state is falling into tier three and tier four geographically which is representing about a fourth of our state's population as we have talked before the these counties are struggling immensely having someone to do economic development that type of thing but in looking at this map I do have a question I know that I filed understand correctly ADC is following the projects or or where there's interest in a project to get that project solidified into that area is there any cap of spending in a geographic zone or an accounting at this moment. So that not all of our funds look like your skew to one particular area. No there's there's not a cap doors or NAREIT Cappy so not council nor aggregate so if a particular county is receiving incentives that is not taking opportunity away from another county to receive incentives at a future date right right and I understand that system and I'm I'm not disagreeing with that I'm just trying to look down the road because as I look at it more more you guys have done such a fantastic job of going after the big business the big corporations and and we're we B. as a state those had come through some very very appreciative but I am concerned we as has already been reflected we we've created a very strong to like its tool and these other counties are struggling so much that that's going to cause us to wobble as a state and so looking forward use talking about some of the we called buckets of money that you have available is there any plan to be able to shift some of that money to directly focus intentionally on the struggling counties. Not that I know of Sir it's you know back to the comment about kind of the difference between community development and economic development we believe that good community development leads to good economic development so you know it's not like we are receiving applications for incentives from these tier three and four counties that were turning down in order to turn funds you know into to projects for tier one and two we need to do things as a state to generate opportunities for these tier three and four counties and so you know personally I don't believe. Putting more. Economic development funding that that the projects are there right now so we need to focus more on how do we. Do effective community development in order to have those projects to be able to fund in tier three and four communities. And so you know we we don't have strong programs other than than what jim has has mentioned there's the community develop Bellman grant programs there there's a few other resources for infrastructure and and other ways of of of providing impacted communities but You know what I think if we really want to make an impact on two or three in four communities it wouldn't be you know more economic development funding here because again the the did those additional projects just aren't there it would be in the way of community development funding of how do we increase opportunities to infrastructure to site development through increased quality of life that that leads to more people desiring to move to those communities to start businesses business attraction opportunities okay I agree with you telling you did a great job explaining that I kind of said it better myself so I look forward to working with the department on how we develop that moving forward so we can start reaching out helping these cities and counties that don't have the economic developers that don't have the economic development groups and help we may have to hold their hand through some this process I look forward to working with you on that thanks Sir thank you all represented right you're recognized for a question yes Sir thank you Mister chairman chair where we are on this once I get going because I need a little help with the okay. We've got no core yes we got big river US steel the biggest steel industries in the United States and all that's coming out of Osceola viable. One day you know we're talking about ideas and and what's fixed add five hundred more jobs because they're going to explain. But jim the thing about that really mystified may is when you and I were talking about it they open those jobs up for everyone in the area we got a job force and rival this great we got one of the best two year colleges with GM Sam well up in New fantastic number number one but only about thirty five percent of the people that's working in those areas are from Mississippi County and you know that you're doing all you and the jobs are there but maybe can leverage on that just a little bit help me okay yeah and the Clinton jumping on that as well you know it first let me say this isn't alter tight labor market all over and so you know you you're competing everywhere right is competing you know in northeast Arkansas that labor shed extends in the boot hill extends over any tacky extends over Tennessee and northern Mississippi as well so for jobs like this that pay as much as they do you know you're on the part of the follow the place as we look at a project like U. S. steel as we model that outlook of cost benefit on we we take into account what the potential leakage is going to be and you know make sure that we fact that and we do our cost benefit analysis and that we don't get a surprise on the downside. It but this this issue ties into what's already been discussed which is quality of life issues you know for folks you're making a hundred to you know hundred twenty thousand dollars a year if you wanna bring your family in there you need to have housing you know for them as well and so again kudos Mississippi County you know they're they're taking that task on and they're encouraging building you got banks involved in Jonesborough coming in there to help facilitate development that's what we need for the long term or to anchor you know those jobs in those families to northeast Arkansas so that they're not driving in from from other states as well and I think the rally down I think they're responding to one is on also plug as well as a fellow commerce agency which is at the development finance authority to the bank for the state they have lots of housing programs and we work hand in glove with them to make sure that we're a developer has a need for development incentive dollars that were meeting that need as well so we're trying to work is is good partial or agencies to Quincy I have a well it's right Mississippi County is one of those examples of. Economic development is is about really impacting people at the individual level in Mississippi County as they shared with us earlier this week like I said in nineteen fifty the population was eighty thousand and the it's been it's been cut in half and without this strong initiative that they've taken in the last twenty years and their motto of cotton this deal if it be a lot worse but Mississippi County was one of the first counties in the state to pass a local economic development sales tax and without that they wouldn't have the success that they've had it's really a good model. To take a county that it is unfortunately impoverished it has suffered so many challenges with the loss of industries with the loss of the Air Force base that they just they just really been through it throughout the years but they fall back they've created this local sales tax they have a great local economic development team. And so they're finding success with this great infrastructure they have on the Mississippi River with rail with the land that they have and what's really encouraging is to hear these private sector companies Nucor bigger still US still others talk about the quality of the work force that that the work force is fantastic these people work hard and as jim said before we entered into that that incident discussion with US steel we did as a code analysis of big river steel's existing employees. And we were not looking at it from a Mississippi County level we were looking at it from an Arkansas level so seventy percent of their workforce comes from Arkansas thirty percent out of state to a combination of you know Missouri Tennessee and maybe even some from from northwest Mississippi. so that that's kind of what we ran our numbers on Mississippi County obviously cares about those that live in the counting and so they're taking some initiatives and steps on on housing incentives and using their local economic development sales tax dollars to incentivize people to to to move to Mississippi County it I think it's working and you know we can talk about long term fixes of of increased. A quality schools and quality of life but you know short term that's certainly gets people's attention to say I we've got jobs available in Mississippi County Arkansas that that that you pay really well and so so people are moving in to take those jobs and and very helpful for for for their perspective that they're housing incentive program is is successful and from our perspective and and looking at at all of Arkansas they're they're gonna be many people driving over from from Craighead county from from others and we want that percentage to be as high as it can possibly be of of folks living in Arkansas taking those jobs but it is just the reality of of a border County mean you could look at as a code analysis of of Cooper tire in Texarkana and and how many live in Arkansas versus taxes or or give give any number of of border communities and and that's going to be the reality of it. Thank you Mr thank you our representative may very you're recognized question. Thank you Mister chair Mister Hudson I I would be remiss if I didn't ask you to make a few comments a summary I had you present before a committee on Monday a subcommittee of children aging and youth about childcare we often don't connect economic development and child care but you presented a little bit of information from the chamber of commerce about how that is really a big issue regarding workforce do you mind giving us a brief summary of what you shared with the smaller committee while I have a larger audience here number one like I said the chamber of commerce information but then also the tax incentive that has never been used and then also what you think really is needed now as we move into the next legislative session to help our businesses recruit and retain workers sure have you do that represent Mayberry. You know it is a significant workforce issues you know and and it affects women especially because just the nature does the democratic demographics of our state you know when there's a burden on child care it is falling a lot of times on the women are workforce to figure that out. Pandemic did not help it you know at all and so what we're experiencing now we have we've had a long term issues I would say with quality not terms child care and for building that goes back you know many many years ago and in the nineties the General Assembly adopted incentive for construction of daycare facilities to really get at that affordability quality issue that's serving taken advantage of you know I think there a lot of reasons for that I think one of the reasons would be probably historically a liability issues that an employer may be a little reluctant to engage on that but I think in the present day it is more about focus if I'm an employer and I'm trying to manage manufacturing line I'm already star for workers in my HR team is already maxed out recruiting workers that manufacturing line in so if I'm thinking about starting up something else albeit important but as collateral to what my experience and expertise is that's another reason to probably not get focus there so really I think one of the things that we need to have conversations about is how can we create a beneficial economic model for child care providers so that they can go out and they can recruit they can staff their facilities and that individuals who want to have a career as a you know child you know caretaker they make that decision to commit to that over a long term it is not transitory employment and so a lot of the instability I think that's in the the child care market right now it's just creating problems for for employers out there so it's definition it's a strategic problem solved state and other states have in place as well. That's the. Less numbers that. Thank you for that. we might records any anybody have any questions comments specifically to. That little presentation. But but is it specifically to the child care she. Okay we'll get there in a minute you're you're on the list I just was going to before you stay on this topic I was going to look like you did such a good job we don't have a question. well center Chesterfield you're actually up next will thank you so much Mister Womack First of all I miss the director because. He sets the tone for this division secretary desk is there a reason he's been he's been avoiding us. Okay Sir just feel at an election a lot easier for you just checking now no ma'am the management of the CGM I'm saying man means that every time I tell him you're our best folks person so that is can we can we can figure out how to get your he actually announced a trip already planned we reached out to the committee when we saw that conflict and asked if this presentation could get moved to a later date so he could be here yeah calendars more complicated than his calendar is so we were able to move it Dustin got the building. Me thinks you don't need to explain too much. A. I am somewhat concerned about the eastern portion of the state. I noticed that there is an anomaly. In the eastern part of the state and that is Arkansas County. I'm all of those areas that I consider the delta that seems to be the one that stands out almost like a sore thumb on the eastern part of the state are you looking at the map and look at it so what is driving in there rather than in other places because. It occurs to me that if we can make something happen in Arkansas county. We ought to be able to make some more things happen in the other areas along the delta region Pulaski County is going to be okay. What this state cannot afford to just have a concentration of people into areas of the state and the rest of it just goes to heck in a bread basket so I need to know going forward all of what they have talked about is is is important. I think one of the things that may be driving Arkansas is the infrastructure pieces that they're putting together but we don't have childcare. We don't have good schools. Thank you and I both know that we're not gonna have economic development because people go to where their children can enjoy the best possible education when we look at the state of Arkansas and less than fifty percent of our kids. Can read. Fifty percent are doing mass will. I'm surprised that they're anywhere in the state of Arkansas so it seems to me that we ought to have at least a three pronged approach. To economic development that is bringing the business is in working with the department of education to improve the quality of education and number three working with the department of transportation to make sure that we have infrastructure in place press the simplistic but would you mind commenting on it. I agree it's important all those all three of those things are incredibly important for the overall health of our economy and our people I think the the parts of that that are specifically charged to the department of commerce and ADC specifically what's activity engage their broadband another example Arkansas county Arkansas county receive broadband grants and so now we're talking about for individuals who want to choose to live in Arkansas county and don't have to have that tied to their work they have that ability now so I think we can minimize the impact of robin's gonna have all on solving this problem you know if the General Assembly you know working with the next governor were to determine you know there's additional funding that can be allocated for you know community resources and community granting will figure out where to get that money out you know one of the most significant Programs we've had recently the community assistance grant program governor Hutchinson allocated to a million dollars one time rainy day funds to that program. And we were able to issue out grants them out of a hundred thousand dollars for just basic infrastructure needs that were outside of the program categories that we're getting met you know I think our committee resources team is very adept grant making entity and so we have great relationships out there rule Arkansas we'd love to have conversations about ways we can help even more well one of the things that is of concern and I'm not gonna be to discuss be prescribing people ready to go home and get that. But it is troubling to me but one time I had legislation that provided an incentive housing incentive for teachers who would move into high priority areas that is when we call them high priorities rather than feeling. and I think the way we label schools will determine so much of how people decide where they're going to go we have high priority schools and we had a grant to anybody who stayed in this in in that particular area of the state for three to four years or five years I can't remember which we would provide them with a a down payment on a home. That's part of the infrastructure I'm talking about because people don't have somewhere to leave their not gonna move there either and I keep encouraging folks to build nice apartments or condominiums so that when teachers move into those areas our doctors. Because we still want to send. AP ends there and they're great. But they also need doctors in those areas but they're not going to go there if they can't find a house so what are we doing in economic development to incentivize the creation of housing which is going to be a centerpiece of those folks wanting their families to stay there because when I travel the state a long long time ago people living in trailers and waiting to get out to go to another school district where they could find a nice apartment. Yes ma'am he again mentioned earlier the the involvement of ads which is a commerce agency we work very closely with them I don't want to minimize the need for low income housing Arkansas still you know I'm in sailing come out I know I'm a poor quality housing as well as by together so finishing my phone on that you know. We do lack some of the programs degree from a federal perspective that tend to be more income determinative as to whether that money goes to be able to support that kind of middle working class sort of housing it is a deficit it's usually it's a huge need everywhere but especially and those parts of the state where you know you've got large work force you people people can't moved where the media opportunity is because they have a house in which it is never a problem. This section thank you Mr Shipp relabel Corps all right to a representative very you're recognized. Thank you Mr chairman just a quick question if I understood you correctly you said that there were. Of eighty thousand around eighty thousand open jobs today in in Arkansas market yes Sir. Do you you would you happen to know what the number one pre covid. I don't. I just wonder how much. That affected the well I I think it's. Similar the you know we Arkansas because the steps that that the this legislature and and the governor's office took we one of the first states in the nation to get back to our pre COVID employment and so you know we we have a lot to be proud of their we have a hundred twenty five thousand more Arkansans working today than we're working at the and at the start of two thousand fifteen we've certainly had momentum in creating jobs and putting our cans and store and we've had great momentum increasing the per capita income over that same time period from forty thousand to fifty one thousand. but. The but but we still have a lot of open jobs and so I think this is probably more than what you asked but you know some of that in includes how do we increase our population how we recruit talent to the state how do we increase our labor participation rate of but the jobs are there and we need people to fill those jobs and on that point represent very labor force participation is it is less than what it was pre pandemic so the percentage of of our Kansans who could work you know there and aging the ability to be able to be in the market place that percentages down to fifty seven percent five percent points less the national average and it's less than what it was pre pandemic and a lot of reasons that go into that but if we can increase our labor force participation just to get it closer national average now we've got people coming into the workforce you can take these jobs so we need to get people back back to work for variety reasons or on the sidelines. That just the. That number just amazes me that the that is that high NO I guess I've been living under a rock or something all of them but that's a. That's a big number thank you Mr. Thank you Mr represent local or you're you're back in. So we have a very complex situation there's no easy answer. Are you made a statement about Mississippi County making their decision years ago to move forward thank Clark County I'm familiar with too often the same thing in there to be applauded for what their citizens of voted to do to locally raised economic development money of those other counties that are out there this thirty something counties that are in tier three and four my sense is the likelihood of them passing a new tax for economic development is not very high. So as we move forward will have to work on that now traditionally pre covid we had business retention and expansion usually that was eighty percent of our new job growth in a particular area we had some things that were available such is of workforce training dollars maybe we had some equipment dollars tax back dollars industrial revenue bonds those type of things is there any plan as we move forward to expand the opportunity for existing orders those incentives to keep them there and expand and especially if they're at your three or four County. I don't think that an expansion or retention sword sessions can be driven by adding a new incentive in there again what we remarked earlier something we feel is correct the existing array of incentives is adequate it may be that you know some employers are not familiar with it we make sure that we're communicating that we've had conversations previously about ensuring that our counties and municipalities understand how this stuff works we've had reach outs under the county judge association we're going to you know kind of a seminar for the incoming county judges to explain to them kinda how this stuff works and what their role is in it so that you know our local partners are taking the lead you know I think that's really key what you know quit was saying earlier we we are supporting cast we have expertise in their years of experience that folks like Clint and his team have but we we don't come in to take a project away from the cliff chip would in Mississippi County were there to support him he's he's the star of the show and I think it it works best and you see the most success where you have leadership at the local level that this state is coming in to support not necessarily taken away from an island was injured point we see that's where it really is the the best mix account. Well I just wanna say thank you as you guys realize that I'm I was I hear quite a few voices here voicing the same concerns as we move for less work together and see what we can do to fix some of the problem anyway thank you Sir. Senator Elliot you're recognized thank you and this is good timing because I I come to you with this last thought of maybe there is a good way to work together and as we try to figure out what to do in the areas that are. Need to be revitalized I'm wondering if a report has reached anybody at the department of commerce about the work we've done on the creative economy that resulted in a report the career plus technology yes ma'am you've got it because I want to have a chance to come sit down talk to with it but the idea is We're never going to get enough businesses moving into a place that that's gonna sustain our county's central areas so what I want everybody to be aware with that report because for some people it's a long reach I get that too it's for us to begin to look at pick a county and what we've done with this work and the report is online it's a on the website we're done with this report is a you know here is how your county this is one of those counties where people say there's nothing here but through the creative economy which I started studying back in two thousand five when I read the first book about the creative economy where people grow in place by re imagining and taken a look at what can we do we lock light wind probably not going to pass a tax increase over the Senate we're not going to have a Mississippi a big river steel move in or new core move in but what do we have we have people and we have natural resources and we have the ability to grow through the arts we have technology we can grow created by consummate right where we are that's the kind of support that we need to thinking that we need to have and get with you guys and everybody else and find a way to support something like that because the likely the way the structure is now it might not fit into that but this is something that we took the time to go around the state as much as possible to take a look at what is actually here from where could we grow and one of the ways we could start despite even talking with kids and say in. Milton high school what are your dreams what do you want for this place thinking that far back into beginning to grow L. U. County from there because those kids will remain but also in that report and I want everybody to know I think some of you who are part of the art caucus that helped us work on this many of you sponsored the legislation and the report is out there but in that report when we say there is nothing we look at what's possible based on research not something we just made up based on research what what are the jobs that really could be or the entities that could grow up here economically out because of who's there. Because I don't know Millwood lake is there what to think about it what can we build who can we attract there are people who have cottage industries that can be calm such staying in economic drivers agritourism is a big thing we talk about agritourism and what it could mean I call the farmers who are having issues now that might be turned to something called agritourism so If you live in a certain County you can look at that and see what your vitality is called vitality index was the vitality index so you know say four digit County what is it for Benton County all of the state you can look at it by county and you can look at it bye bye all right to regions switch or that's the way the Arkansans for the arts have the state divided. And we worked on this since twenty eighteen we formed the art caucus and just got it passed the last session and a lot of people don't know about haven't read it and I understand a lot of people that have interest at first it's it's it's something new and different and you have to force yourself or not what we were thinking force yourself not to wait for somebody else to come and they are not coming and so is light we tell a lot of people we're going to find a way to pull ourselves up by our bootstraps but possibilities are there so I I look forward to coming and having a discussion with the about it along with folks Markande since for the arts because they have done this study and they did so much of the research that we had to back all of this so yes ma'am we will look forward to sitting down with you just real quickly the broader point that you're making that I would say I'm a complete agreement with I'm old enough to remember we were called the land of opportunity yes right and I think every one of the seventy five counties everyone of them has strings that's right some of those may be latent they may be dormant in some respects but everyone has strengths and what you're discussing is how can we help folks maximize their strengths and and market that we love to help you on that thank you thank you Mr yes ma'am. Thank you for the represent Ladyman you're recognized. Thank you Mr chairman I'm not part of the committee I appreciate you let me ask questions but you know. I believe we talk about rule or the Arkansas I believe this is a national problem not just in Arkansas we're rules areas are basically nine they're losing their schools and some other things people are moving to larger cities and course south Arkansas there as everyone said it's a big problem but even in Craighead county where Jones or parables growing at rapid rate the small towns within the county are not growing so you go out to cast your vote over Egypt for those places there's nothing there they're they're moving into you know Jonesborough or bigger parable so I think it's a big problem One of the ways I think that could be addressed is if we if we could get and I know we've gotten very close to getting a large manufacturer I know US steel is large but I'm time and I don't plan or something like that where you could have spent office in satellite plants. That would go into the smaller towns and the couple examples of hydro they're in Jonesborough their corporate headquarters of there so they're growing so they're now they're building or facility over in the Fort Smith area so what happens when these large corporations movie in the bill satellites close because you at just in time and what their products available I think we need to focus more on corporate headquarters to move in Tyson is a good example we have a thousand jobs coming from Chicago to Springdale because Tyson realizes that that's good for them. And these are a high level hi good paying jobs and people that take these jobs have to have skills that we may not have in Arkansas so as you mentioned that's going to bring skills into the State. At the corporate level so and if we do that the the business expands out Northwest Arkansas is a good example that as Walmart grows it expands out into the surrounding counties and smaller towns you at Walmart stores out there so it grows the rule areas I think one of the things that we might be able to do is to put more focus on recruiting corporate offices we're very good at factories we we've got a lot of factors in Arkansas great job you guys have done but we need to bring corporations here in not only would that help these rule areas but the entrepreneurship. Senate bill it talked about this people in these rural areas that have skills they don't want to do with those so if you had a large corporation or a large manufacturing that would need these other things these people in rural areas might develop a small business to feed these corporations so my question is do we need to look at and maybe this would require legislation but do we need to look at focusing more on looking at these corporations that are looking to re locate because there are states that corporations are wanting to get out of for various reasons I mean Chicago's good example on Tyson so do we have or should we have a focus. On going after those type of entities that are corporations that are looking for a home should we do that is it legislation require can you comment on that. What sure happy to make a comment on that Sir so four nine target industries two of those are of technology and corporate shared services so we do have initiatives to to to work with those companies you know you certainly hear a lot about. Corporate headquarters moves into the into the DFW area and and and so I don't want to say that's rare because it the because it happens and and fortunately for us like you mention we're getting several hundred jobs of from from a consolidation with the project and Tyson foods you know as far as at the corporate level I think a lot of the success that we've had in Arkansas and other states have had growing corporate headquarters is is starting with a small business that becomes a large business so you know we have for we have five fortune five hundred firms here three northwest Arkansas one in central Arkansas one and in south Arkansas it all started with Arkansas based entrepreneurs and so I think what we're doing through our our technology initiatives with xcelerated programs with the specific incentives that are that are outside the CIA programs for entrepreneurs certainly hoping that that that leads to the next after Jeez and referred to Ryan's and and those companies that are that are starting here that are hopefully going to grow up to be very large corporate headquarters here in Arkansas we have the tools as far as create rebate governs quick action closing to but to to compete and to recruit large corporate firms and and so I think like so we're having some success in there and and and a lot of that comes down to. A court headquarters is going to size up a potential location in a much different way than a manufacturer is they're gonna look a lot at that quality of life when they're gonna look a lot as a it It things that maybe a slightly different than what the the one manufacture looks like but create a comment and certainly a property force you and add to that I mean the toolbox is good you know the most important tool box two one toolbox for us or is the work that you all are doing in terms of creating a favorable business climate in the state and a favorable tax climate in the state thank you for corporate you know headquarters relocating the income tax structure both from corporate and individual income taxes it's just it's just a strategic driver and so you are making choices. Governorship and draw somebody's work on this to make it a more favorable climate for companies to come into so thank you all for that work. Thank you represent rare. Thank you one more time as chairman you know guys in nineteen thirty one we came out here and basically. You had forty acre farms okay now what's going on especially in all northeast Arkansas I know one person that actually forms thirty thousand acres of land. That person may only need for five people to actually form that whole operation this is been going on especially since the mid eighties to nail it's just gotten bigger and bigger and it's needing last people as we go. But there are if you'll check I know jim jim I know you know is all all of the eastern side of the state has lost population in this because I think of that I think that is because this is a big problem because there's not any jobs over there once this is replaced with big farm equipment. I think we need to look at. Creating more businesses and those counties in in those cities because from what Jack representative Jack Ladyman is saying he sees exactly right what is happening the smaller towns are going toward Jonesborough because back in the sixties and seventies you actually had places like mark tree to run to that were self contained these folks you could get everything you need to get a doctor you had grocery stores you had everything in the world in a small town and you don't have that anymore so I think that if we could possibly look at creating more incentives for small businesses to move into those towns I believe it it could stop the bleeding well just on that point is to get back to work force and you know the entrepreneur sort of mindset automation's reality you know we can be afraid of it or we can see it as an opportunity but we can't avoid it here and so one thing that you see you know with our office skills development and other sister agencies and department commerce making sure that we have those apprenticeship programs we have those job training programs out there for high tech sort of blue collar jobs you know so read one of those farm implements you got to have somebody come in repair they they're not don't fix themselves right we know that in this is not just turning a wrench these are circuit boards in this is this is how technology and so the individuals who are coming out of high school to high school education do not want to go to college unable to a college various reasons can get into a quality vo tech program learn that skill they can go out and they can make more money than college graduates will have job security in the future and so yes it is incentivizing I think at some level the business's but training the workers to work in those businesses that. Workers working to have business he's a future she's a future entrepreneur because someone to go start their own businesses well. Thank you represent mayor recognized. Thank you Mr chair as we're talking about role Arkansas and job opportunities do you mind just sharing some thoughts on remote work and how that might change the scope of how we look at where businesses are in located in workers not necessarily having to work in the big city and having more opportunity in rural Arkansas absolutely and thank you for bringing that up that's been initiative of ours and it's such an incredible opportunity you know remote work's been around for for several years but in the last couple years to the pandemic there been so many Americans who have for the first time in their careers been given this opportunity to de couple where they live from where they work so this helps our Kansans in a couple ways you have you know people that maybe they were living in San Francisco Chicago big city spending a very large percentage of their paycheck on a very small apartment and then go into the office and then all the sudden the employer says we don't have an office you can still have a job here you can live anywhere it's with this opportunity to recruit people promote ourselves says the natural state you have all these amenities you know you don't have to wait till your your annual vacation to go out and enjoy. the canoe on the buffalo river hunting fishing hiking you can you can you know have a high quality of life low cost of living in a state where people care about one another. it's family friendly and so there's so many opportunities and and and this has been successful it's a it's hard to track the numbers there are a few ranking agencies that have given us some very favorable rankings on percentage of inbound movers of actually ranked number one in the nation in twenty twenty one by one Group four percentage of inbound movers so meeting more people moved in the moved out not not overall of course more people by mass moved to Florida or Texas but but a very favorable ranking is we've captured some of those stories on an initiative that ATC is partnering with parts services and tourism on a call to see why Arkansas. I I have some friends just outside of Conway in Worcester that moved here from Phoenix they had this opportunity to work remotely have four kids wanted a little bit of land in a and and you know setting of all the ones the things that I described. They had never been Arkansas before but they had a favorable impression of the middle part of the country and so they started looking around and and bought this house in Worcester and they love it and then some of their families get ready to move right behind it and I think there's there's hundreds and hundreds of stories all across the state in in in in a lot of those it's not you know wanna move from from one urban area to another it's one move to rural area and so I think with with rural Arkansas the ghettos we continue to roll out broadband and have opportunities to work remotely it helps to recruit people and and frankly it also helps with retention so if if you grow up in Arkansas you love Arkansas and you have the skills where you're being recruited by out of state firms another short example I have a friend who is a data scientist is being recruited by by companies outside the state looking to move but loved Arkansas and then eventually got a job with the New York based firm and work from home. And in Arkansas and and so I think there's there's tremendous opportunities for talent attraction and talent retention with remote work. Yeah you're recognized. Area do you have any thought on remote work for state employees and how that might affect your departments. Okay go ahead. I don't know if I'm speaking on behalf of the employer but you have my thoughts right of it unfortunately we as we have companies come to us and say how do we become more competitive in workforce retention and workforce attraction and and and we're supposed to give expertise in that area. We have our own issues. And it has been compounded over this last year and unfortunately we have lost. Very good valuable state employees some that just naturally have better opportunities that that would have come along anyway. but but some in particular that have said I have an opportunity you know I've I've in the last couple years of a lot of my. Friends and and. Here's the they have these opportunities to to work remotely and and and I've asked for the opportunity to do it and and and we stuck with the of a strict policy at ATC and and so we've lost employees that have gone out and found jobs that that that they can do remotely. so I I'm not here to recommend a specific policy but I'll I'll pass along as as as a reality yeah and just I would add to that I think it's it is a crucial issue my concern is whenever this topic comes up it does tend to get looked at almost exclusively through the lens of the employee and that's cost either very important generation but I think the first touchdown is to be our customer. And are we you know doing anything that impedes our ability to deliver service to our customer which is the taxpayer you know here in Arkansas and so at the extent that we go down this road more broadly as state government we owe it to our employees but also to our customers to make sure that we have the right tools in place so they can still be effective at their jobs if they're working from someplace else and the second thing real quickly would be I am concerned over all in the economy nationwide that we're creating a little bit a caste system. That there are knowledge workers who who tend to make more money who have the ability to work from home and there are people who pay a lower wage jobs who don't have that ability in such a little bit of a concern that what does it do to the team dynamic where you have only certain types of folks are in the office others are outside the office those are things we ought to wrestle through before you I think a brace a particular policy yeah if you don't mind I'll add to it it's it's also dipped difficult even within our office to separate so you have many employees and and frankly I would say for us it's it's most of our team the value they bring is by but not working remotely we're either out working in communities and with our prospects or were in the office adding value by the conversations that are taking place in the office we have some employees that. you know frankly. Probably. A lot of times add value by being in isolation doing their work having a quiet place to to think and work and and that's a different scenario and it's and it's would certainly create a challenge to to separate those out but the but but yeah I I think it's very good comments by jim and and for the majority of our team the value they bring is by either being out of communities are being in office. Thank you. Ours nobody else in the queue there any other questions. C. N. non thank you guys for being here that we're joint station thank you. next item on the agenda is Other business which includes the next meeting of the Legislative Joint auditing committee will be held on December first and second two thousand twenty two. is there any other new business and he's come before the committee from any member. I see a non this will stand adjourned thank you for being here today.