Aging, Children and Youth, Legislative & Military Affairs- House

X. because we're gonna be doing some jumping around this morning but we will. Been doing this for purpose we are going to try to clear agenda is best as we can everyone that is able to present today so we are going to without objection we're going to start with house bill seventeen twenty nine by representative Gramley. Well that was quick that helps the engine. If you identify yourself you're recognized. Hello my name is us a representative Zachary Graham link house bill seventeen twenty nine. Is intended to add a licensed massage therapists to the mandated reporter list why would we want to add that license such therapists mandated reporter this is a great question the the the main reason is we are seeing increased number of massage therapists are working with a high school athletes who are put in situations where they they could be working or sizing about and say Hey this is interesting Is what's this from it could bring into issues where children could disclose potential abuse and there is a relationship that's built over over the years especially for working with an individual and in that capacity so we wanted to provide a Provide and those individuals be mandated reporters to help ensure children's safety. Are there any questions by committee. Representative Springer you're recognized for a question good morning thank you madam chair representative privilege you don't have a discussion with me regarding this before today thank you on this flight thank you for that and and yeah you're right I could do a better job of a you saying these bills everyone no thank you I appreciate that Of the other any experiences that you've personally had with respect to these type of encounters me and know personally I I have not as a school teacher though I can definitely see where are our students to build reports of some or athletic trainers and that individuals who might who might serve in that role and so I do think it's important that if if that information and and potential abuses disclosed to us as individuals that they they are required to explain and comment or hotline. Representative do you're recognized for a question thank you madam chair so rather than answering this question just kind of made me have a question so what generated this than if you hadn't had any experience with that who was going to come so. Two part there well first off disclosure this bill is going to be by Robin Lundstrum to run as freshman bill the second there was a the tactic of. Eckardt was named who had who had seen some some issues with this and so they they brought to robin yeah. Any other questions by committee. Is there anyone. In the audience that wishes to speak for the bill. Against the bill. I would like to close for your bill I'm because I don't appreciate vote. Representative painter motion. We have a motion do pass is there any discussion on the motion. All in favor say aye. Pose no. Congratulations you passed your bill. And while you are at the end of the table. Members without objection we're also going to move now to. House concurrent resolution ten thirteen. Correct is that the correct. Thank you Committee I'm running this concurrence Lucien for a representative road and senator jim Petty in the Senate this is to commend the Van Buren high school marching band essentially the last six years that they have one five six eight six eight titles for the marching band and so they're just wanting to to give them some recognition for the hard work that they those kids in the director should I. Thank you are there any questions by committee. Anyone here to speak for the bill against well against the resolution or for the resolution. You want to close the resolution close and I do a motion to pass. Thank you I have a motion to pass all in favor say aye opposed no. Congratulations you pass your concurrent resolution thank you manager thank you may. Okay without objection we're now going to jump to House Bill sixteen ninety five. Representive fighter you're ready to present house bill sixteen ninety five. Can. If you identify yourself you'll be recognized. Charlene Fite district twenty for state representative this is a very simple bill you're really S. this is tied to a bill that I read in twenty seventeen the child maltreatment as bad as it pertains to members of our military and it's a since then the addition of space forces has made it a priority to update the language on all such bills that pertain to our military also the original bill did not include the Coast Guard in the service listing so the military is steering away from listing services and now use the term armed forces which pertains to everyone and this is in title ten and title thirty two of the U. S. Code. Thank you are there any questions by committee. There anyone here to speak for the bill. Against the bill Joint clothes for your bill I am close for the bill and as a member of the committee and make a motion to pass thank you we have a motion do pass Senate discussion on the motion. All in favor say aye. Lows NO. Congratulations your bill is passed thank you madam chair thank you committing. Okay. Representative fight while you're there would you also like to run Senate bill three oh nine are you waiting. Okay. We would love for you to. No problem. Okay so members without objection we are going to the very end of the agenda this is Senate bill three oh nine. May I bring my witness to the table madam chair yes just have them introduce themselves. Also this bill is not just in a different order but the bill came on late after the eighteen hour period so it also has to be heard without objection. So thank you for no objection. You may proceed. I'm Myron Parker president Methodist family health. You. You're recognized thank you madam chair Senate bill three oh nine corrects a licensing issue with P. R. T. F. facilities at the child welfare board it gives more flexibility to the child welfare board to make decisions on licensing when a facility has been an active sometimes the an activity is justified and the board is asking for flexibility to make decisions in those cases currently they are required to repeal a P. R. F. T. license if it has been inactive for twelve months if there is a legitimate basis for the an activity such as hiring issues et cetera this bill would give the board flexibility to determine whether licensing should continue or not and I'm going to ask my witness to speak on this as well. She sums up pretty well A representative fight and Senator Hester last session passed this bill with the intent of trying to hold some accountability these firms that we take these P. RTF licenses and just hold on and so after year they were going to suspend the license unfortunately there were some shelters and some other entities that were caught up and to have legitimate reasons for going beyond a year and this bill simply gives a child welfare board a little more jurisdiction to you know be be practical and and intervene in those situations in which you explain exactly what a P. T. R. S. S. took me a long time. Psychiatric residential treatment facility. So I used to work in a doctor's office or find out of state laparoscopic cholecystectomy to saw you know this. It was most I was I felt like I had accomplished something we get to that point. I've also always said if you ever see me testifying in the Committee something's gone drastically wrong. But but this bill is so easy that I thought I could come up and help with this so. Thank you for the information are there any questions by committee. I think you just ask you to spell what you just said. But he didn't ask in the form of a question so would pass over that the RT at the idea. No questions I committee is there anyone here to speak for the bill. Against the bill. July to close for your bill I am close for the bill and I make a motion do pass we have a motion to pass is there any discussion on the motion. All in favor say aye. Lows NO. Congratulations you pass your bill thank you manager thank you committee members. Okay back up to the top of the agenda. Two house concurrent resolution ten twelve. So without objection members we will heal here house concurrent resolution ten twelve a representative hawk. Thank you madam chairman thank you Committee this bill are joint resolution was brought to me last year from a third grade class in a school elementary school in my district they asked if I would write a bill that would make bicycling the official support of Arkansas. I had to tell them I probably could not get that bill passed to make bicycling the official sport of Arkansas given football and basketball and soccer and all the other sport enthusiasts in the state however we wanted to encourage and just recognize the fact that they were learning how do you write a bill how does it work and what was important to them and they had researched different ideas and that was the one they came up with to write a bill so what we wanted to do was to come back to them and say your efforts were not in vain and we would like to have a joint resolution with the house and Senate to recognize may as bike month and beyond that to encourage schools to have a day where kids could bike to school that they might have kind of a coordinated effort with adults to help them get to school and so on just to help promote bicycling for kids and healthy outdoor activities and so on so we've also contacted the first gentleman Bryan Sanders whose favorite sport is bicycling and a he is going to help us promote that with the schools so with your support today we would like to pay house passes joint resolution to make may bike month in Arkansas with that'll take any questions other questions my committee presented Pilkington you're recognized this really question is more of a comment I appreciate you giving some hard truths of these youngsters that they weren't able to get what they wanted so. Go back and explain to them that we can I went last year and got to do that but I will go back again this year but hope they'll see this is a positive no I I think it is I think it's great at you know I know northwest Arkansas's obsession bicycling is a pervasive so I appreciate is nothing to think it's a good a good bill thank you thank you and don't you agree that it was good for those youngsters yes easy to make a question. Any other questions by committee. Is there anyone here to speak for the resolution against the resolution. Would like to close for your resolution I'm close from ours some resolution representive car you're recognized. We have a motion do pass is there any discussion on the motion. All in favor say aye. Lows NO. Congratulations you have passed your resolution. Okay representative Duffield are you ready to run House resolution ten fifty six. I bet they are represented hocks. If you will identify yourself then you may proceed. A representative that the feel District fifty three Russellville. Thank you madam chair thank you committee I bring before you today House resolution ten fifty six this is a resolution to honor Tommy Robinson and I think some of you may or may not remember Mr Robson he made quite an impact on the state and Mr Robson currently lives in Brinkley Arkansas which is in Jeremiah Morse District I spoke with representative mourn and Mister Moore was completely fine with me honoring Mr Robinson even though he's in his district. So little about Tommy Robinson He's kind I called in the Buford Pusser of Arkansas back in the day and I read a few of his accomplishments. He served three terms in the U. S. house of representatives for the second congressional district of the state of Arkansas from eighty five to ninety one. And while serving in the U. S. house of representatives he served on the house armed service committee and the house education labor committee for former congressman Robson serve four terms as sheriff of Pulaski County Arkansas for maybe one day before as a member of the Arkansas state police the North Little Rock police the US marshal service as director of public safety the University of Arkansas for medical sciences and is chief of police for the city of Jacksonville Arkansas. Mr Robinson's getting on up in years and I spoke with him he's currently battling cancer not thought to be in the jester to bring him down here Little Rock in an honor him state capital so I appreciate your support and I make a motion to pass thank you. Well hold on to that for just one moment are there any questions by committee. Is there anyone here to speak for or against the resolution. Okay now would you repeat your motion for me. Yes ma'am make a motion to pass thank you we have a motion to pass any discussion on the motion all in favor say aye. Lows NO. Congratulations you passed a resolution thank you manager thank you committee. Representative Duke are you ready to run House resolution ten fifty nine. Thank you. If you identify yourself then you can proceed. hope do District twelve thank you madam chair so House resolution ten fifty nine it was brought to me or the idea was brought to me by constituent it's to make April thirtieth as therapy animals in the state of Arkansas the constituent of Bellavista just want to recognize our pets that help particular that area our elderly population you know just to give them comfort in others with pain with loneliness isolation as I'm sure many of you all know that that's used in schools and in facilities for our foster children in different things like that so I thought it was a great idea to recognize how that has been we were using that in our school district as well at this point and just got a good opportunity to recognize how they help our communities and help our people. The data well. Are there any questions by committee. Sure anyone here to speak for or against the resolution. Join to close for your resolution I'm close my religion resolution I'll make a motion to pass thank you have a motion do pass is there any discussion on the motion. All in favor say aye. Opposed no congratulations you passed a resolution thank you ma'am thank you committee members. Committee and don't see representative Scott is there anyone she's designated to run her bill. Okay. The number of the title. To create the correctional postnatal in early childhood Advisory Board. Are you supposed to do that. Okay. Well I'm not trying to twist your arm I'm just checking. also I do not see representive wallmark. Okay and representative Richardson is presenting next week so representative painter you're ready to percent House resolution ten sixty three thank you. If you will identify yourself you may proceed after that. Thank you madam chair Stetson painter District three HR ten sixty three is to recognize the first week of may as tardive dyskinesia awareness week I want to thank representive fight for giving this a resolution and let me pronounce that on record so from here on out I'm gonna use TD as the oppressed to review a should for that TD is a movement disorder characterized by random involuntary and uncontrolled movements of muscles in the face truck in extremities whereas it is estimated that more than six hundred thousand Americans suffer from TD and the National Alliance of mental illness reports that one in every four patients receiving long term treatment with anti for soccer psychotic medication will experience that TT so folks this is important to recognize these folks and so I appreciate a good vote and I make a motion the proper time. Thank you are there any questions by committee. Anyone here to speak for or against the resolution. Joint close for your resolution manager like to close this member of the committee I'd like to make a motion to pass I have a motion to passes or any discussion on the motion. All in favor say aye. Because no congratulations you passed a resolution. And representive shepherd are you running House resolution ten sixty four. If you're recognized yourself then you may proceed. Thank you madam chair representative shepherd District seventy nine this is a. Ten sixty four correct. This is a resolution that I'm presenting for representing the column in a recognized the fire museum in hospital Arkansas and what I was what is noted in the resolution is that Arkansas has one of the highest death rates in the nation into the museum in this effort is what the museum does is teaches fire prevention and safety to all and so what representative McCollum wanted to do was take the opportunity to recognize the director and others for their efforts so with that I'll close for the resolution. Thank you are there any questions by committee. The representative painter you're recognized for a question represent Shepherd we're we're is this museum at it's located in her district the exact address is located at fire station to and make up the park historic district great thank you you're welcome. Any other questions by committee. Thirty one in the audience here to speak for or against the resolution. Would you like to close for your resolution Clause thank you a motion for to pass thank you have a motion to pass any discussion on the motion. All in favor say aye opposed no congratulations you pass your resolution thank you and without objection members we're gonna skip to down a few to Senate concurrent resolution seven because I believe you're running that also correct absolutely this or send a law so this resolution here March is recognized nationally as keeping awareness month and so representative law wanted to run a resolution it also recognizes is pronounced a poll a poll ale one which is a rare disease that's found the mainland individuals of African descent such as myself although we only recognized thirteen percent of the population when it comes to kidney failure we make up thirty two percent of that and as it relates to in stage kidney we make up thirty five percent that it is primarily in regards to genetics and so we wanted the opportunity to raise awareness to possibly get people diagnosed earlier and also be able to receive care earlier so with that I'll close. Are there any questions by committee. Sure anyone in the audience to speak for or against the resolution. I would like to close for resolution I'll close out Eckford do pass thank you have a motion do pass is there any discussion on the motion. All in favor say aye. Opposed no. Congratulations you passed a resolution thank you. Okay representative fight. Are you ready to run House resolution ten sixty five. If you'll identify yourself you may proceed. Charlene Fite district twenty four I am reading this resolution for Speaker Shepherd. One of our administrators for the bureau of legislative research and code resizer is retiring at the end of this month he has been with the bureau over forty three years. And he has made a lot of innovations with the code revision which is now merged with the bureau of legal research but some of the revisions he has made are still things that we use so he has been a leader in our BLR and I think it's only right that we recognise him with the resolution. Thank you for that are there any questions by committee. Is there anyone in the audience here to speak for or against the resolution. Would you like to close for your resolution. Yes I don't know if I even gave his name is Vincent C. Henderson the second I should have led with that Mister Henderson and we very much want to honor him and with that I am closed. And I make a motion do pass thank you we have a motion do pass is there any discussion on the motion. All in favor say aye. Pose no congratulations you've passed the resolution thank you and Speaker Shepherd thank you as well. And representative Stommel are you ready to run House resolution ten sixty six. If you identify yourself you may proceed. Here on behalf representative Bentley to bring you House resolution ten sixty six and it is to recognize that to a state champion boys Panthers are Bigelow Panthers basketball team it is just their second state appearance and a hundred and seven years with an undefeated conference record and a twenty game win streak along the way it to their sixty to forty five championship I know miss Bentley want to be here today to passes House resolution or to ask for this committee to pass assessed resolution she has made on our behalf and I would appreciate a good vote. Thank you are there any questions by committee. Anyone here to speak for or against the resolution. Would you like to close your resolution yes ma'am I'm closed I'd like to make a motion as a member of the committee. The ocean the okay I mean I hate to take it for granted. I really need to hear that. Yes ma'am thank you members we have a motion to pass any discussion on the motion. All in favor say aye. Lows NO congratulations resolution is passed thank you madam chair thank you committee members and I know miss Bentley thank you as well. Okay members regarding house bill seventeen oh nine just so you will know and for the record here she plans to move that bill to an interim study so that will be moved to I. S. P. so now I'm representative Scott house bill seventeen oh nine. And so now we are going back to the. Very first bill on the agenda House Bill fifteen seventy and we have an amendment to come around if you will give us just a moment. Well that's being passed out I will also tell you that house bill sixteen thirty nine by representative McCollum he is Otherwise detained today in an unforeseen circumstance and will present that bill next week. Okay representative brown would you like to explain your amendment. If you're just identify yourself please. Thank you representative Carolyn brown District sixty seven this amendment simply adds Senator Scott as a co sponsor on the Senate side and I think you meant senator stone I did. I just promoted somebody and okay senator Strom is the Senate sponsor and I ask in addition there was with the last little paragraph of the current The. Code two of twelve eighteen six one four that had been left out and although it was code I wanted it printed so that the to ensure everybody that that no that the this is not pertaining to a sexual abuse. Okay this any questions so does the committee having questions representative fight your record recognized for a question I'm a little confused here you said it doesn't pertain to sexual abuse but I don't see that in the in the amendment. It does okay in the very last paragraph this is currently code and it all the rest of that. Section of code was reprinted in my bill except for this last paragraph and I know that that is a concern for people so I ask her to please print that portion okay I see what you're talking about so not necessarily the new language but the language underneath a new line of credit okay. Any other questions by committee on the amendment. Is there anyone here to speak for against the amendment. I would like to close for your amendment I'm close thank you what's the will of the committee. Thank you. Thank you went to sleep on me. We have a motion to pass on the amendment all in favor say aye. Because no. Congratulations pastor amendment and you are recognized to present house bill fifteen seventy thank you I passed of legislation call Quincy's law in Twenty one and we found that there were That I needed to. Add some general language and then lists the conditions that were in the original bill as examples so that is one addition and then It's. Quincy's law was established to help very few. Situations where parents or guardians had been accused of child abuse of the child abuse that was diagnosed by a physician and generally these conditions are when children are very young There are conditions that are listed here that can mimic child abuse so it became apparent with contacts from various constituents that we needed to address that concerning give those parents an opportunity to defend themselves so that was the reason for in these conditions to allow parents to get a second opinion. We also found that families were having difficulty getting second opinions because they needed to access the medical records so this most of this new language is written to enable parents to get access to the medical records so that they could get a second opinion I have read I would like to bring some people up administrative office of the court okay. And DHS I believe we have addressed everybody's concerns there I have. I currently have no opposition to the bill of. But there may be some people with questions I have. Review does a DHS the prosecuting attorneys the defense attorneys and the administrative office of the courts and I believe that's everybody if you will have your guests introduce himself. Thank you madam chair my name is Troy Braz well had the honor of being a circuit judge in the twentieth judicial district. You can proceed are you ready for questions I'm ready for questions okay other questions by committee representative fight you're recognized. Thank you madam chair my understanding is that the Arkansas chapter of the American academy of pediatrics objects to this bill had they not talk to you representative brown now they have not. I wish I received information this morning that they object to it did I say wine yes specifically the proposed legislation provides a court the discretion to enter a protective order so could you address that please. I might ask the judge to do that a representative fight that the question is related to a protective order yes okay thank you for that question a couple things that that I'd like to say to start out with this this is not a judicial council bill this is not a bill that is I have been presented from the judges representative brown has been great to meet with several of especially juvenile court judges and sitting down with us I think the first few drafts we had some serious concerns I mean she's been great it's a good example of two branches of government working together and really what the words that are most important to judges in this legislation or that is the word may and so courts are already permitted to order certain records to be handed over after a motion is filed after hearing is held courts have jurisdiction to order certain records to be provided certainly a representative fight there are situations where a court and may be concerned about the sensitivity of the information to be provided and we certainly have the legal authority to order records or any information to be provided at percent to protective order a lot of those a lot of times you'll see that come in an envelope directly to the court for the court will review that and ensure that whatever is to be handed over and it is appropriate to be handed over I'm not sure if I answered your question. You're recognized madam chair someone is here for the children's advocacy centers could she be brought to the table to help answer these questions yes thank you. If you'll just recognize yourself please tell us who you're with. Market Humphries the children's advocacy centers of Arkansas. I Humphries children's advocacy centers of Arkansas thank you would you like to address the question please yeah I think the concern that we have with the language and Proposed legislation is that it gives the court just jurisdiction that they may enter protective order where we have other language in the child and then. dealing with are taught advocacy center records that requires a court of competent jurisdiction to issue a protective order where it comes to medical records involving child victims where legislation has already decided that they have a reasonable expectation of privacy to that and this represents the opens it up to where are taught advocacy center records including those medical records would be accessible without a protective order and we want to ensure that there's no conflict between that there's not gonna be any confusion for our centers as to whether or not that information is gonna be protected that part of those medical records are images and those images are going to include genital areas as part of the medical records and sexual abuse exams and from my understanding the way it's currently drafted that would be available to be released under this particular piece of legislation as we don't want any confusion of our centers and for those records to be released to the public. Well I'm this legislation specifically exclude sexual abuse allegations so I don't really know if this is a concern. At this point and currently DHS has the ability to Basically when there is an abuse possibility most of those cases are referred to children's hospital so windy eight when children's hospital diagnosed as a child is abused that child is taken into DHS custody at Siemens hundred percent of the time and not return back to the parents so we and the parents try to access the medical records that they need for their attorney tries to access them there children's hospital understands that the child is in. Custody of DHS so DHS has the ability to release those records. That sometimes is difficult and so this is just another Avenue I understand that the courts have never denied an attorney the opportunity to receive the records that they need to defend their client but this is not a shall situation we deleted the word shall it is a may situation and then if the child is in in a foster situation there address all their all their contact information is up to be Rejected so that the parent cannot you know that there be no interference. By the accused. Representative will urge you're recognized for a question thank you madam chair represented by the I think I have several concerns but the one that specifically jumps out at me other than the one I represented five mentioned was. I think it's section a it starts on page one line thirty six and then page two goes through that section three line maybe twenty two but it requires the second opinion you said for a parent who has been accused it allows them an opportunity to have a second opinion this doesn't mention in here parent anywhere it says an offender can require a victim to go through the process again so can require them to have a second physical exam and then the offender has access to the records. The. The accused are generally parents or guardians so I just use the word parent follow up. At. I think I would struggle with that if it said parent but if it doesn't say parent and it just says offender and it's not an offender at some random person from across town they can subject my child to a second examination and then they have the medical records. According to this. I'm not following your question if somebody is accused could you just repeat it I'm. Right my understanding and in your question and everything's just run this has this has offender listed it doesn't look like this payment requested by the alleged offender regardless of whether the alleged victim has been taken into or placed in the custody of the Department of Human Services rise so a an alleged offender you're saying ninety maybe percent of the time most of the time is the parent but I'm telling you my concern is even if it's the parent but my concern especially as if it's not the parent at some random offender they can request my child go through a second examination that's dramatic an awful the first time now they're going through the second time and those records going to be released to this offender. It if I could explain our goalies will further. It in the next paragraph for the purpose of ruling out a possible differential diagnosis request that a licensed health care provider who routinely provides medical care to pediatric patients examine the alleged victim to determine whether or not the alleged victim has a congenital cutaneous variant bone fragility of coagulation disorder or another medical condition or genetic condition that may appear to be caused by suspected abuse or increase the risk of misdiagnosis of abuse as defined. including without limitation rickets Ehlers Danlos syndrome osteogenesis imperfecta vitamin D. deficiency of vitamin K. deficiency for an example. The people who originally brought their concerns to me. I had a child that had multiple of bone fractures at about the age of three months. That child has subsequently been diagnosed with Ehlers Danlos that is a genetic genetic condition the mother has subsequently been diagnosed with Ehlers Danlos these conditions the space for us and I know more about Ehlers Danlos than any of the others those conditions frequently are not diagnosed until somebody's in their thirties or forties or may never be diagnosed so they have a genetic condition that they don't even know exist and then they pass that on to a child and then sometimes in the you know the child might be fussy or something they take the child to children's to have have their concerns the child examined to see what's wrong and in the end these multiple fractures are discovered so I'm saying this condition this situation is rare it doesn't occur very often but we do need to protect and defend of the child to make sure the child is getting the proper care that you're not treating a child to sit there abused when indeed they have a condition and that parents are not being falsely incarcerated. A for something they did not do so this is just you know I don't want any situation where a child is going to be heard or or put through a terrible re examination But I don't want families torn apart either and this situation became apparent to me when I was doing my research several years ago as representative Stephanie Klick in a Texas conducted hearings in multiple families came forward and told their nightmarish stories at five and they had subsequently been cleared however their children had these types of conditions and it was me it was parents who who came in and gave their testimony parents whose names had been cleared so we want to defend the children at all cost but we also don't want to tear apart families and necessarily. So is there something about this bill is due to language that I could make it better that would occur give you more ease. Well I think listed specifically maybe a parent in that situation and and maybe I'm I'm reading the the legislation wrong but to me it just re up it opens an opportunity for an offender that is not a family member to put a child through a second examinations what I want to make thank you manage. You're welcome and I have a question for the judge on that while we're here so because it says for the purpose of ruling out does that natural. Does that language natural wine you're. You're opening up for second opinions so in other words it wouldn't be for any random second opinion now. Yes. Just congenital cutaneous variants Bond fragility or coagulation disorders and the conditions here are listed as as examples and I you asked the judge not me that's our reserve round thank you madam chair it I mean that's that's what the statute says As amended that specifically listen less the conditions to rule out I think that answers your question well it doesn't and my lack of legal speak is is the problem probably here but I didn't know if that actually as I read it it sounds that way but I don't know if in actuality. It's still wide open that was kind of my question well I think I can answer that question by saying this if someone presents a motion before the court and articulates that that's the reason that they're requesting the evaluation we certainly wouldn't be in a position to say well they clearly don't have that condition right and so if someone says we suspect that this child has one of these conditions. I believe then the court would go into the determination of whether or not those that evaluation should occur and what records they should or should not get. And I wanted. Skews me if you have have other questions to the judge but I did want to point out response over in section two says Arkansas code title twelve chapter eighteen subchapter six is amended to add an additional section to read as follows right of a parent guardian or custodian to medical records of child definitions a court with jurisdiction may order a healthcare institution a practitioner to provide an alleged child victims medical records to an alleged offender if the alleged offender has been accused of physical abuse and is a parent punitive parent guardian or custodian at the alleged child victim. South. This. Thank you representative brown If you can call a witness but we can't just have people come in invite to the ends of the table so we need to take care of that well I I wanted to call. Mr Rosenzweig to the table to. That so would you introduce yourself for the record please. I'm Jeff Rosenzweig Legislative chair of the Arkansas criminal defense lawyers association I've of work with that representative brown on this matter and she called me to the table I couldn't I had a previous engagement I couldn't be here earlier this bill has been strengthened has been amended to make sure that abusive of requests are are not to are not honored can or a court can rejected as judge Braswell said number one it's up. It's going to be restricted parent's guardian's people not and this is in the dependency neglect situation not in a criminal situation of but this is the court may order in other words the court would have the discretion to deny something that is misprint S. but. Makes clear that that the rule that if something is ordered the records are needed because a a second opinion doctor is going to need the records of of prior blood test prior X. rays partner scans that type of thing in this will make clear that those records are. Or are you know are to be handed over one of the problems that we've had is that the DHS workers on the ground or the medical providers don't want to don't want to hand over the records and we have to go up to the top levels of DHS to get the records released which is a unnecessary use of of DHS top executive resources if it can be made clear that these records are are needed and there are any number of times where that I've had in my career and I assume of other people in my situation have as well where there has been a missed diagnosis based upon a failure to run certain test originally or not running the test not running the tests and all or not recognizing having someone who didn't recognize of the The alors Dan Los. Situation or other things like that. Representative painter recognized for a question. Remember how often does misdiagnosed happen. It doesn't happen very often but I would deferred to Mr Rosenzweig on that. It has happened in a number of of my cases and of course by the time you know it it gets to me often times it's going to be more likely from a demographic standpoint to have been misdiagnosed then the standard situation with someone or some you know if someone hit someone and they fall and break their arm that should generally not generally you know that's not going to. Not something a second opinion that is going to be needed for it's when is when the kids as you know verily trips and nothing happens and all of a sudden all these problems show up and and it turns out that ellers Danlos one of the manifestations of ours And analysts is that it makes you so susceptible to injury that a three inch fall from an hour to them was person who was like a three foot fall from you from someone from someone else or what do you have in a situation where a child and infant presents in a children's hospital with fourteen broken bones and no bruises whatever. I had one of those cases and went to a jury trial we ended up with a hung jury in that case children's hospital actually said there was a test we could run but we don't run it on Medicaid patients. And that this is this is what that is here to our for to prepare to prevent is to make sure that that the subset of of parents to recall then who are innocent have the ability to demonstrate to a judge Braswell or some other a court that they are in fact in the Senate and so you're not tearing apart families. You have reached. What manager so so I I I'm a guy that likes to see or hear number so are you talking about like a quarter percent of the cases that that that are misdiagnosed less than that more than that. I I I don't know of I I can't tell you back in cases over all I I simply don't know but I would say in the cases that get to me as a lawyer when someone is. Charged or accused of something might my experience about one quarter but I mean that's obviously there's a selection bias right thank you mentor. President if I you're recognized for a question thank you madam chair I'm concerned particularly about photos being released my reading of this is that it would entitle The defendant to have photos of the child which that the defendant could then put on the internet as we know has happened previously could you speak to that please I can speak that I'm sure judge gradual can to this would allow or man or certainly give the court the power to issue a protective order in which St you can only show it to doctor acts or nurse why or whatever and it's punishable by contempt of court if there's any violation of it and that that often happens and all the lawyers I know make make sure it's really not that the defendant is not going to really need those things it's the defense lawyer it's the experts retained by the lawyer who are going to who are going to need those in any any reputable professional is going to treat those those with the care and respect and certainly follow a court order and judge brown as well and his colleagues have a have a substantial power under the law to jail people who buy. Are there other questions by committee you have a follow up you're recognized I appreciate that they could be held in contempt of court and they could be fined with those pictures are out there for ever so that really does concern me. R. A. I. you know what's in the I mean if if someone wants to flagrantly violate the law you can't you can't stop them but in the normal case what for instance the way I handle it if I get if I get pictures if it's you know I I may show it to my client simply does is is this a picture of is this the right pictures is a picture of your of your son or is this the you would picture of your house or whatever it is but they are not but they don't they don't get a copy these people are going to almost all every circumstance be represented by a lawyer because of the you may vote in the the parent council. Commission of the you know for dependency neglect working with criminal defense lawyers that type. So if I you know it's with a protective order and with the of people acting professionally you know it should not be a problem. Representative Penderecki. I still have a current guest. Hard to understand that answer because I would thank. The defender could still or the the person being accused can still get access to that whether you hold it or not they can still get access to that right well I mean they have to break into my office or you know something like that to to to do I mean to do it I mean the the point is is what were the photographs. You know you're. you're talking about a picture of a you know for instance a picture of a bruise for you're talking about a and X. ray or a scan of some sort I mean you're you're Jett you're you're generally not talking about if you're not talking about child **** this section the following measure so just to make sure on the record here. Because because what I'm I'm trying to think of my four year old daughter as a dad somebody did something to her. You're telling me one hundred percent. That they don't could not get access to those photos period without going through you Leding just showing up correct that's it what will have what would happen first this is this this is only restricted to parents and guardians if a stranger did something to one of your children this this is an applicable to it okay so I'm sorry VOL so if I beat my daughter which I would never do but if I did I could not get Act I could not just come up and take those photos we have what one hundred percent what what what would happen is the court may order it doesn't have to order yeah but may order it subject to basically an abuse of discretion standard is whether it's right really as is it relevant to any issue and the court can and will issue a protective order saying. the lawyer may show it to the client or or some may not show it to the client but may not give it to anyone other than a specified specified expert those protective orders or in writing they're subject to subject to contempt sanctions of contempt of court in which someone could be jailed and fined is as a result of it but it would be essentially under the criteria of of of court supervision and for instance if it's just shown to the client and state for purposes of identification is this is this the picture the right picture it can be done with the other side there or in the court room itself just in some format but you know lawyers going to need to. Make sure that Maddox principal grant may be what it what it purports to be an not a picture of someone else because record or records mix ups do happen. Thank you manager just for the record I would not do that to my dollars just. Are the other questions by committee representative brown you're recognized. Thank you madam chair of does rhizomes respect. Would it not be true that first protective orders are extremely common in court and are designed to essentially balance the fact that. As distasteful as you know a kid being hurt is we do have the principal of you are innocent till proven guilty and so this is kind of the method that the law has evolved to balance those those things up if any queues does may need records to defend themselves at the same time protect the child is is is is is is not a very common method protective orders in court you're you're absolutely correct. Okay represent Browning I was to me that's right Mister as swag we're used to sparring against each other from our old days but Roger brown you're you're correct protective orders or something that we deal with on a routine basis one of the examples that that comes up is sometimes when you have a a child that's alleged maybe sexual abuse and that person has been seeing a counselor there times that their request made for certain records there's a limited sliver of those records that could potentially be relevant to the case and provided to the defense and the the most efficient and safest way to determine that is to order that those records be provided to the court the court reviews those records and then makes a decision on whether or not it contains something that should be I provided to the defense in that case of this this is somewhat similar to that in terms of the protective order in courts are very familiar with with handling this. You're recognized thank you resolution is also. This is also not true to that if I'm in your court and you case the protective order any tell me you know Matt here's the record you shall not let another set of eyes CD's and if I do then I'm going to the county jail and possibly lose my license. Or I could. This has never pre judge what I would do to for content my court because we may be there one day I sure hope not but but certainly that that would be an option and and not really pertaining to this but just a similar situation is if you have a criminal case you know obviously it's unfortunate but we do have child **** cases the defense doesn't get to get copies of the child **** right but they're certainly entitled and to go sit down with the prosecutor and review the evidence in the case in the constitution guarantees to be able to see what the evidence you know is going to be used against you in so that the courts do have a you know a long history of of experience in dealing with sensitive issues and that's one of the reasons when a representative brown came to us with with some of the early language that we had concerns about that and we're just thankful that she was able to work work with us on that and and so we're here officially is neutral that we told represent brand we be here to answer these questions thank you. Representative do you're recognized for a question. Thank you madam chair a representative from first all my apologies for not asking questions Senator I tried to get with you I understand I could but I understand you know how that goes on in and I'm trying to kind understand all of this kind of like a come to the party late being a freshman down here so my question is I'm I've gone back to look at the original law think of going to the right place in the Quincy is low and what it says on one part of it is my understanding so please correct me is that a licensed health care that initially they were not required. to be able to get a second opinion. And that looks to me that this is part that's changing now because it says the very bottom of this what a license health care provider examination under subdivision of this section shall not be requested for the purpose of attaining a second opinion on whether or not alleged victim has been a victim of sexual abuse they just noticed I want to the first one it was considerably shorter than than this one that you're bringing here and that was one of the pieces and the concerns so I'm curious that's a big reversal in the two years so my question is why for that and then this then also I don't know if I can get the two questions at once go ahead if I can answer well if if it will help your question be full yes if you would rather I will give you a follow up so you can decide okay I'll just I'll follow up because that that that part first of all that's it okay so that's a big change. And okay I can explain that and I didn't get it I have this bill was amended and engrossed prior see the amendment that we read today what had occurred as I had two pieces of legislation one was the enhanced language for Quincy's law only and another piece was to get the record to be able to get the records the. However my original legislation was under of the juvenile justice. Regarding records and Quincy's law is under child maltreatment when we met together with the prosecutors and defenders DHS we all got together what this really all belongs under child maltreatment so that's why there's so much new language now in Quincy slot we. Whittled it down from two bills to one. And made it pertain strictly to child maltreatment cases because the prosecuting attorney for Pulaski County had called me my understanding is that he had a problem with fifteen sixty nine which I have pulled down and we took language that was pertinent to that and a and added it to Quincy's law because what I did not know when I originally ran Quincy's law was that it's important to be able to have access to the medical records so that the doctor providing the second opinion has the information so it may be that the doctor providing the second opinion can strictly look at the films or the records and and make some determinations from that and not need to do any additional examination so that was that's the reason why there's so much new in Quincy slaw. And then specifically These. We are not dealing with accusations of sexual abuse we are strictly dealing with conditions that can mimic these conditions that a child could be born with like there's there's all kinds of conditions if the kids can be part with okay all up thank you and as I mentioned when I try to get with you earlier as I've I've had some constituents reach out to me right before you came in one of their concerns is about just the privacy and and I'm sorry I don't convey this for awhile because I'm not really understanding all the pieces of this but their concern is with the privacy of the records. That it has to do with the shall purses may and that's where the concerns are and I can't give you a whole lot more detail on that because I haven't had a chance to to talk to them in detail either well I think we took out all the shelves. I think that those pieces that they would prefer shall Let me see if I could. Senate again my apologies because I would like to have better. The opportunity to and and forgive me I am just so nervous because for killing the children's gives me a lot of anxiety because I am not an attorney and I'm not a doctor it has to do with but I've done a lot of research and I've listened to a lot of parents yes ma'am it has to do with may issue a protective order for the peace records and again a lot of this I think I'm coming the party late so I'm not contain very well I would like to let Mr Rosenzweig and assets of the. This of. If you look on which are court with jurisdiction may order a healthcare institution over says not have to it has to be presented for the approach in the appropriate surprised. Okay and judge brown as well or one of the other judges can grant or deny as as of. as the as the people before him either show that is relevant to an issue or not relevant to an issue there is a and then he he can and almost certainly will issue a protective order for the circumstances of who it can be shown to how it can be shown to move be transmitted whatever now there is one shall in here as to the definition says of medical records shall include without at center at center and then but there's also requires of the other shall is shall redact members of the judge may issue the matter may may order the records provided can issue and probably will issue a protective order but with the protective order if there's a with the records have to be complete. But also our shall be redacted to remove identifying information and that's all in there too that's not optional that's mandatory. Representative Wilder to recognized for a question thank you madam chair my question is do you Sir and you stated earlier that the records released to you and it be locked in your office that had to break in your office to get a copy of whatever that record is that correct yes Sir and actually most of them now we're going to be electronic and so they would be my computer if you didn't have my password couldn't get right where does it say that it's released to the attorney because my again looking at it on page three line nine through eleven it says released to the alleged offender okay well took to thank New York normally speaking that is four for instance in a for instance of like in the rules of criminal procedure when you refer to the defendant you're actually meaning the defense attorney that's first thing I mean that's just that's just standard for the second the control of it is placed in the judge in the protective order saying because the the the defense attorney is the agent of the defendant or the response. Follow up. I'm definitely not an attorney either but it doesn't say defendant it says offender specifically so it would be release the offender and then the rest of my question is if you follow down to that to to a piggy back kind of on representive fights question for purposes this subsection physical abuse includes physical managed manifestation of sexual abuse so there could potentially be things released to the. Offender that are sexual in nature that they within again have access to to put on the internet or well. In number one that the these are they'll be protective orders that that that will could that would control that S. first so and the judge a judge could and would say okay the this is only for the only for the lawyer but the people have you know do have a right to have a right to represent themselves but they they and they wonder take the there's gonna be subject to the restrictions that a court can Place on I hope that answers of what that answers your question now with regard to the sexual versus physical you're at you are occasionally and I I and we waters has had these there are there are circumstances that were of physical flexion or illness or whatever an infection of some sort can mimic can can mimic abuse and you're generally occasionally you're talking about photographs but they're not ones that could be that would associate in that you can associate with a specific person it would be a just a particular part of the anatomy and not and not as a whole body or anything with a face on them but but there are you know in the in the in the sexual examination will sometimes say we see we found this physical thing what what is it in the second opinion by definition would have would have to cover that it would just you know it might be a a picture taken very close up picture of something but certainly wouldn't be anything that has. That would be identified any particular person and then And again at some point you have to you have as representative brown said you've got to balance the right of a person to defend himself or herself for with the with privacy rights and this is the manifestation this is the way our system deals representative Walter Jeff I might respond somewhat to your question over here in In section one on page two line eighteen where it refers to congenital cutaneous variants I didn't know what that language meant so I did a very authoritative Google search. And A key to a congenital cutaneous variant can be a skin lesion. So of the example that I just happened upon is these lesions can appear in the genital area so a lesion could you know. It It could mimic of those solutions could appear in other places but it could they could appear in the genital area and that might look like someone had been a child had been abused so and it would be a picture of a wound it would not be anything sexual. You're recognized. I appreciate and not I know I think that your heart is in the right place I think the intent is good for what you're trying to accomplish I just feel like that they're unintended consequences that will manifest from the wording that's currently used in this I'm not comfortable with that I'm not certain that on going debate will make me comfortable with that so I'll you'll back to the committee in trying to asking more questions thank you madam chair. Representative fight you're recognized for a question. Yes I would really like to hear more from the children's advocacy center I understand you cannot speak for or against but if you could look at. Do you have a copy of the bill there in front of you. Yes ma'am. On Page three line sixteen if you could speak about how that would affect the children's advocacy centers I would really like to hear that. And I think that speaking on behalf of the child advocacy centers the concerns would be that the records would not just be for lesions you're going to have physical tears are going to happen and those are gonna be images that are taken during a sexual abuse exam that are gonna be there that are not just a physical condition that could be released are at our concerns is not whether or not a defendant or alleged offender has access to those records is just as everyone to respect the privacy that legislation is already determined was there for medical records and for the specific type of record or image that is going to be released and rather than having that discretionary although I agree that most judges probably would the assurances that it has to be done not necessarily that it can be done for protective order to be issued in the circumstances now because while most alleged offender that are going the requesting a second opinion. I do apologize are going to have defense counsel representing them and a lot of them are not in time of treatment hearings and things and so these I press a litigant's within also have access to these records and so we would want to ensure that there's a protective order in all cases not necessarily when an attorney is available or when the judge decides. Thank you. Are there any other questions by committee. Representative Pearce you're recognized. Representative brown I have no doubt do you love kids as much as I do I have no doubt but my question is we're all all of these questions is do you not think that a victim could be victimized again in in any way with this bill and that's what concerns me is we don't want back to what victimized originally but we sure don't want because of something we have done here. Make the annual let that happen again that that really concerns. I personally do not I did not write this language it was written by attorneys that care about children also and children are traumatized when they're taken away from their parents also. And they can be taken away from their parents for for months and maybe even years before they're returned you can't. You can't re let you can't replace those years so my concern is protecting that child not only from abuse but from being taken away from their parents and and for protecting the family and I'm not sure you know because I don't speak the legal language and parse my brain that way I'm not sure I fully understand the child advocacy person or the attorneys completely but. This pertains strictly to child maltreatment it is not juvenile justice and I don't know maybe Mr resonant so I can address the needs of this concern but I believe that these these situations occur with infants they don't occur with. Four five six seven ten thirteen year olds these most of these pertain. Two very little children when at at that young age they typically are not I diagnosed yet. But they were stemless they in the contest situation that I am remembering or that was brought to me initially. A child had not been diagnosed Ehlers Danlos was ruled out by the child abuse pediatrician. According to what I have been told by the parents and the records I've seen. However a doctor at that same hospital has now diagnosed that child with Ehlers Danlos and stickler syndrome and the mother has been diagnosed had the OBGYN known that mom had Ehlers Danlos that OBGYN could have run interference and said your child to school most likely going to be fragile there's a strong possibility that child is going to inherit your genetic condition that child could be fragile and taken steps to look out for that mother and look out for that child and that's really part of my concern here is because when the child was diagnosed as abused it was not given the treatment it really needed at that point in time and it was only because the parents pursued getting the care that child needed not because they were getting that care because the doctor that diagnosed that child is abused was providing that care they were not the parents actually it's because of their diligence sought out the additional care for that child I don't know how else to word this in a way that would give people comfort I have a judge hear I have a a defense attorney here and they have both given their assurance I don't know what else to do to to assuage your concerns but we do have we do not need to allow and. We need to do what we can to avoid injustice. And that's my primary concern and justice for children and the parents. Representative Brooks you're recognized thank you madam chair represent route thank you so much for your kindness obviously it's clear that you have significant passion for for kids and and bring the law prior session as well I guess base kind of what I'm hearing based on a lot of concerns from members I'm wondering would you be willing to to pull the bill down now and just work to address anything that may be here because it seems like we're going around around a lot with a lot of very similar concerns someone if you just be willing to to pull down so perhaps we can make it make it better and address concerns I might be out there. Change the nation shall interpreter I would be willing to do that it to achieve the goal the primary goal of protecting everybody and giving parents or guardians the opportunity to defend themselves because with with Quincy's law I didn't for initially right in their legislation that would require that the records be turned over and there's been considerable difficulty as Mr Rosenzweig can attest to and from the phone calls I received from parents who had difficulty getting the records they needed and Yes of I'd be willing to pull it down I don't have that we can get it run this section running out of time but the there is a considerable need I mean I did put an emergency clause on this because we do need to address this because these cases come up day you know. You know you never know what's going to one's going to come up. So for the record you're going to pull it down and work on it and hopefully try to bring it back before session is over yes I will madam chair thank you for bringing your bill thank you for being open to discussion thank you members for your your questions if representive wallmark was not here or anyone to run his bill then that is all of our agenda and we are turned.