Education- House and Senate

And I'm calling the US Senate and house education committee to order and we have a number of things to do but first off the list is Emily is going to call out your name and if you would please let her know what seat number you are in so we can do our seating chart up here so we'll start with the Senate. Start of the Senate. Senator Davis. Senator Davis Senator Leding. Senator right here what are those numbers there. Fifty one fifty four fifty and fifty one for letting Davis Leding if the. Yeah. Okay Senator Hammer. putting down their necks jim Dotson. The fifty five center Bryant. Fifty three Senator sound. Fifty two center Dotson. Eighty one okay. Senator Phil. Do. Okay we'll move to the house. Representative makes. The representative Cozart. Seventy five representative Charlene Fite. At forty seven representing their. Seventy four representative back. Forty three forty three represent Lanny Fite. Seventy two representative flowers. The representative flowers. Representative are. One seventy one representative Maddox. Representative Maddox. Sixty nine representative Parker. Representative Barker. Representative when. Sixty eight representative garner. Forty five representative Hodges. Representative Hodges. Representive Walker. Forty four representative long. Forty one representative Duke. Forty two representative painter. Seven zero zero representative McKenzie. Forty six representative Brooks. Forty eight. Okay I think that everybody in their seats so let me see Representative eleven have you got words of wisdom to say to us today no ma'am Senator ready to get started we got a lot of work to do over the next several months and happy to be working with you to the task at hand thank you very much okay so we have a number of things on here the one of the things that we have to do is we have to approve the minutes from the November eleventh meeting. Nothing at exhibit D.. Do I hear a motion. With the motion. Thanks okay thank you the second. Any discussion. All in favor of all those thank you very much and then we also need the consideration of a motion to authorize the chairs to approve special expenses incurred by the committee so that's the money we spent two I hear motion. Okay thank you all in favor. All opposed. Okay one of the things that you'll see we've got a little packet here exhibit B. is just kind of a reiteration of what the tasks of the house and Senate of Education Committee our house is a little bit different than the Senate but basically they cover the same same thing so sometimes people forget that we aren't just K. through twelve but we cover public kindergarten elementary secondary and adult education vocational education vocationaltechnical schools vocational rehab higher ed private education institution and similar legislation but typically what ends up happening is is that adequacy seems to take most of our time and energy this summer I hope we're going to be able to spend a lot of time on adequacy but we're also going to find some time to do some other things as well look at some other issues Taylor Lloyd has put together the Kind of summary of all of the education bills that were passed during this last session we will go over those today you all could take a look at all of those and then we'll come back and if we have some questions will review some of these things but as we're moving along here a lot of things are going to affect of adequacy this next time and we will hopefully get into some issues on and discussion on the learn to act and how that might affect adequacy is wealth Exterior so right off the bat then we will moved to to Julie one of the things I would like to say before we do that is Julie has put out an inner staff of put out a really a comprehensive agenda for our adequacy study what we what we want to do as I mentioned before as have some flexibility in this adequacy process so they were able to do look at a few other things as well and I think that representative eleven and I have agreed that probably it would be very nice idea to have two or three of our meetings at in a different districts across the state so we have an opportunity to kind of see what's going on in those school districts rather than just what we know here so we will do that and so I will let introduce Julie and hold please go ahead. I'm sorry had yes. Of. Crosser off already. Okay. Thank you madam chair I just have a quick question now that the early childhood has been moved from DHS to education yes as we transition there will we not also take your early childhood as well as now obviously there are a lot of things to come up just exactly like that and I think at some point we will want the department to come and explain what that looks like what their plans are for that how that's going to operate but that definitely is no longer a DHS thing that's an education service thank you very much. Okay moving right along George Julie. I think Senator English and get afternoon committee members I'm Julie Johnson helped and I am the administrator for the policy analysis and research section here at the bureau and it's our team and you're gonna get to now is probably better than you want to but we're tasked with supporting you three the adequacy process which has the now occurs every two years so we're here to support you in any way we can and while we won't really begin the process in earnest so January and the chairs did ask me to come today and provide an overview. And so I was trying to think okay how do I do that concisely but letting you know I said this is going to be a lot of work it's a big commitment and to be a member of this committee and then also to Make it seem a little bit fund which we hope it will be so the phrase that have a coming to my mind as I was putting stuff together was it's really more of a marathon and race and I will have had a lot of different specific milestones along the way and hopefully at least one you'll have a little sense of exhilaration because you and learn something new and you're putting some pieces together but it will last from January the presentations will go through July in as Senator English said this is a tentative schedule that we're presenting that my team is already been hard at work we're looking at data we're looking at research and also it how to organize our presentations because one thing we want to do is there so many pieces of adequacy that we dive deep down into but we also don't want to lose the whole picture so we've really worked to organize our presentation so that they make sense as we go from one to the other in really will build on to each other so you get a good sense of how the funding model works and if it's working and if there any changes that you want to make to it because that's why you're meeting. So at the end of it you probably will feel like you friend twenty six point two miles but hopefully you'll also have that sense of accomplishment from having done so. just a little bit of the background of why we do this every two years in nineteen ninety two there is a small school district in eastern Arkansas lake view that filed the lawsuit in they said basically we're not able to provide our kids the same type of education that many schools in the rest of the state or able to provide in just a little side note back in the nineties late nineties I was a reporter and I had to go reporter story at Lakeview elementary school in it what didn't have anything to do the lawsuit but I was interviewing a teacher when I walked in there it was such a stark difference because I just dropped my kids off at elementary schools here in Little Rock and then I got over there and just the lack of books in this in the rooms posters on the wall rugs on the floor and things that my kids had that these kids didn't and so I think the equity part of like you ended up not being a big surprise perhaps the adequacy part of it did because by the time it took ten years for this lawsuit to work its way through the courts and by the time the Supreme Court issued its ruling in in two thousand two it said you're right like you not only is education not being delivered equally to all kids but we're not even doing an adequate job or any of our kids in the state in the judge used a series of economic indicators and teacher salary national test scores state test scores to prove his point so the court said It's really the state's responsibility to not only make sure an adequate education is being provided in but it's also the legislatures responsibility to define what that adequate education is so what makes up an adequate education. Two other things that the court noted that specifically had to do with what we're doing here every two years is that it said the General Assembly must exercise constant vigilance and so that's why this biennial study is put in place and I know it gets tedious and we do it time after time that it's really meeting this court mandate is why this is being done the other thing that I think is important in this causes it because for and continual assessment and I think that was the court trying to say that we know all the things that make up adequacy in two thousand two may look very different twenty years later and where are we were twenty years later so they expect for you to look at it say we may need to do some things differently so that certainly and you'll hear a lot more of this and a lot more eloquently from tailoring January but it's this is all in your purview in your prerogative to make those decisions. after the court issued its ruling the General Assembly met in special session in two thousand and three and issued a whole series or pass a whole series of reforms that activity seven specifically had to do with our study in it talks about eight very broad areas that were to be looked at each time you the legislature came together for a steady then three years later the General Assembly came back in issued or added someone language that gave some specifics of how to go about meeting those bright areas and we're gonna get into those in the next few slides. So the way we got this organized in this really the whole thing you'll get every meeting and we call it our tracking sheet and it's to help you and as know that we've met all of our statutory obligations in terms of adequacy study but the language in the left in this blue column this is the two thousand three language and you can say it's pretty darn broad you know we're going to study the entire spectrum of public education we're going to evaluate the effectiveness of any program run by schools district or state so you can see it it's quite broad in the expectations but it really is an all encompassing study in that we are to look at all of education and how expended the column and gray is that two thousand seven language that adds a few specific so we know exactly how to go about doing these things in the police and then the pink Collins our hours and these are the names of the reports where you'll get these points Metz and also and tentatively when they're scheduled. So that's section one three four and then section five deals specifically with teacher salaries so it's as we have to look at average salaries section six it really gets into the costs and talks about providing what how much does it cost to provide an equal education to either students with special needs or some schools that are smaller or isolated may have more of an issue coming up with the resources to provide that equal education. seven is again dealing more with the costs on a per student basis. And then eight is kind of interesting because this is where one of the places where it tells you we need to make sure were once you determine the cost for me need to make sure we're finding what it's going to cost to provide an adequate education and not just what we have set aside to fund education so that's in this part of the law in its At at the at the I believe it's also but I know it's in the statute for the steady then at the top of wanting a notice it says using an evidence based approach and there are several different ways of going about stating adequacy and one thing I did and now I forgot to mention Arkansas is not alone in doing adequacy and back when we had our adequacy lawsuit there were several others and Elizabeth Bynum on our team and resources in there actually twenty six adequacy lawsuits ins in twenty six states in about a twenty year period around the eighties to two thousand and twenty of those resulted in adequacy studies and having to do reforms so while we're not alone we I mean we do have our own specific Arkansas statute in way we deal with it and we chose that evidence based approach at that point so what you get from us will be lots and lots and lots of different kinds of evidence we'll go into that in just a little bit we also look at the economic indicators because you know as inflation goes up the cost of providing the same resources also goes up and then down here at the bottom There it says if there any other topics that the committees want to hear about then then those can be added in so you can see in our people call on their several reports that have been added over the years and we met with the chairs back in April and these are the reports that they requested that we continue so will be presenting all of these reports over that series of months. I'm sorry for us when we look at that low rate all that worrying it's a little bit daunting so we paraphrased it and this is what we'll try to answer for you in each report. We'll look at how does the statement school districts to support an adequate and an equitable education so we'll look at the structures and the at the funding mechanisms as well as the amounts. We'll M. look at how or the school district spending that money and what patterns are we seeing do they very between small districts in large districts and then we'll try to present although we'll never say but will present evidence so you can see is that working like you wanted to and that's the depending a lot on our outcome measures which are usually test scores but there are some other measures and. And that teacher retention student enrollment that kind of thing that will also report as we as we can. So we're going to take a look at our course and as we've said this year of the marathon course could change but right now here's how we got it laid out so we'll get started in January and it will have on the first day and introduction similar to this Taylor will give a very nice legal framework we're shall explain the courts and the statutory expectations for these committees and for the process and then since we've been doing this twenty years now we've separated all the history out Elizabeth Bynum will give you a history leading up to lake view and then what are some of the major things that have enacted since then so that will be day one day two will look at the lake the measures that were mentioned in the court case and see how we progressed on those and then we'll get right right into some of our nitty gritty data in Adrian back will present a report on achievement we'll be looking at all the different test scores last year we save this toward the end of the presentation but we felt like it really resonated with people a lot and kind of help to make all the other things we talk about makes sense so we were gonna try starting with that this year. Some will run run run to February. And in February or a bow and a provider report on facilities and the facilities funding program is so it is is under the purview of these committees but that findings processes really outside of adequacy so we're going to go on and get that report separately get it out of the way and then I'll present an overview report and how does the funding model work at present in Arkansas and that's how how do we get the money at state level how do we send that out to the district's. Back at the three February and into March. In March is when you are probably gonna start not liking us bring it in a member last year I said to bring snacks and get a good night's sleep the night before because this is where the hard work yes and that this is really how does the funding work for each item and so in March we'll talk about the matrix and I have a example of this an exhibit asked to serve you and pull that out. The front page of this is the matrix for foundation funding and so this is how we fund everything from teachers and nurses and counselors to instructional materials and transportation so we go through those line by line because you also depending amount for each line on here and we'll look at how that how that funding looks with the spending compared to that looks like and then we'll also present you know if we can compare it to what other states are spending or if there's some research about this is a good amount to be spending will include that will also have some input from our educators so will include all of that together so March will be completely going three this side of the page in April you no matter what happens you'll get a break from us because you're in fiscal session. But will be back in may and will finish up a resource allocation reports at that time so the flip on to the back of that sheet you'll see the categorical these are funding streams that were put in place at the same time as the matrix this is not foundation funding but it's spending largely to address that equity side of the equation so it goes out for students with special learning needs and then professional balance also in there in that's considered a categorical because those plans have to be spent for those purposes over the years they've been some additional strains we call those are supplemental funding and the ones that we haven't talked about because they a lot of them applied our matrix lines will discuss at that point and then we'll also talk about some items that. Our and that school districts in that spending a lot of their foundation committee on that are part of the matrix and we just feel like or have always included this because it's important for you to know how that foundation money is being spent. Well in that all of our financial talk with a another statutorily mandated report on it's called equity and it's using some fairly sophisticated statistical measures to look at is pending being distributed in a bases that helps with an. Deliver that it equal education so it's not equally but equity that we're looking at so um and then it also on the spending side or they went to school districts get the money are they spending it in a way that reflects a commitment to equity and then we will quit talking about money for a little while and will move into the classroom so our next report will be learning expectations that's really looking at curricular requirements graduation rate requirements it will have a separate report on our career technical education program and then we'll also have a report on waivers and waivers are what school districts can apply for and get if they and do not and want to or need to follow a particular law or rule that's been written is for that law. So again my will be a full amount that you are getting close to the finish line we've got one more heavy duty month in June and the first day is looking all at teachers information so we'll cover teacher salaries it will also look at recruitment and retention programs and at how well they're working. And then the second I will going to pull kind of back out and do some big picture looking at accountability so audit will come and provide a report and then it was the final we'll talk about that the state and federal accountability models for our education system and what their findings are. And then when we go to July it's going to be Carlos Silva and then Siegel which are our consultants presenting that CPI measures to help determine you know what's inflation going to be and especially in terms of health insurance that's why Siegel will be here we will at that point presents and I've got final up here but it's really a preliminary final because it doesn't have your recommendations but it's a compilation compilation of all the reports we've presented up into that time and then we will also if you want to pull out exhibit for. We'll pass out a worksheet in this is a copy and it was much bigger and easier to read that when you actually work on it so we'll make it where you can actually read it better that what we what we did last time and this is working with the matrix as it currently is is go through and every time there's a decision point that the committees have to make we've got a line for it and you can see what was done in the previous year and then make recommendations for the following year and so this could look exactly the same but depending on what the committees to sites throughout the M. process it could be you know very different you have different things you want in the matrix or if there's a new funding model so we will work with the committees throughout the process to come up with the worksheet that will hopefully help is as you're working through recommendations. So July through November. Is really time dedicated to for the committees to get to finalize the recommendations in this doesn't mean you have to wait till July to get started but because you might have really good ideas along the way as we're talking about a single project in Taylor will be here if you want to descend draft legislation or anything along the way that for the committees to consider and that would be great. Speaking breed. But anyway but so November first though is when you the reports have to be turned in to the Speaker of the house and the president pro tem of the Senate and then generally at courtesy copy is sent to the governor's office as well. So that is the right course I did want to say one more thing about it not to mention the four types of evidence and as an evidence based approach this these are the kinds of evidence we've always tried to provide they're not always available for each matrix line of reach topic we're talking about but we always provide the Arkansas data and that's that's giving me the you know you know how much are we spending and how much are we spending whether students scoring you get the picture of what's happening in Arkansas with that data and these other three pieces or to help you have some context to make your judgments on what you think about that data so we'll look at a comparable data from other states we'll look at what's being said in the research literature in terms of best practices and will also and full information from our educators surveys and tell you what they said about certain topics I will never tell you and I'll get into this again but if it's if any of these things are good or bad that's for you to decide that we're going to tell you what is out there. There are not usually hurdles and marathons that we know we may have a couple and the the main one is that we are limited to using the most recent data available and that's going to be for the fiscal year that is just now ending and will have access to that data actually not until September October so we'll be working pretty hard to pull all of our analysis together before we start January. And usually that doesn't make a big difference because things don't change real drastically from year to year but I know all of you have just come off of working on the learns acting you know there a lot of changes that go along with that so what what I will and will remind you of this again in January we won't have a lot of the data that you're going to want us to be able to tell you about how the learns Act is doing so we won't be able to say how it's affecting teacher salaries we will be able to say how it's affecting other types of of indicators we will and we're stating that act as a team right now so we will talk about the portions of the act as they apply to pieces of adequacy when we're representing those days and if there is any data like the example I can easily think of is when jasmine presents her teacher salary report she won't be able to tell you what the average teacher salaries are with Lawrence committee in but we will have the teachers salary schedules so we'll be able to explore that for you so anytime something like that is possible of we'll we'll do our best to do it and if there's anything you think of that we can do to help because in a big consideration for the committee's next time is. Well the large act being cooperated in the adequacy will part of it will none of it in that you know that's a big decisions that will and be up to you off but will will provide any information we can to help with that. just quickly wanted to introduce our team some of them are sitting back there Paul Atkins is our data guru and he dies down at the asking data and pulls out what we need to do our analyses Adrian Laurie Elizabeth Leah jasmine and myself will all be working on reports and giving presentations throughout those immense and increase the Haidar is administrative assistant and she is really the reason we were able to get up here and present these reports we can do it without our. Then we also of course work closely with your committee staff family and Kathy M. obviously with Taylor Lloyd in legal and then with Carlos Silva and Katie Walden and fiscal in my system directors just go Whitaker and also her support has been great and as as Marty's and I hope your everyone here is great but I do want to say I think you'll enjoy working with our team they're really smart most of them have been through at least one round or two rounds of adequacy some of us three and four so the real thoughtful and and we're all committed to. Providing information that will help you in your roles speaking of which I just want to end up talking about our team in saying that we do have a specific lane during the educate the adequacy study and we're here really to be your objective lands and the adequacy or the policy analysis and research team here at the bureau really wasn't it's one of the newer ones rules is newer but we were created back in two thousand five basically in response for the demand for the biennial adequacy study and the reason the legislature housed this group and their own bureau is because they wanted someone he was just going to look at the data objectively and not have any programs that they were fond of or any points of view that they wanted to make sure representative so please know that we take that responsibility very seriously and we really work hard to be as objective as we possibly can and when I talk to my team I use in terminology that one of my college professors use any really always talked about how data can tell you what is and that's really the value of data and so that's what we'll be doing will be telling you what that is is and then as policymakers of course your role is to say what what ought to be in do we need to make for that data where does or can we stick with where it is so we're just providing the information to help you I'll make those decisions. So I think I'm through until January but between now and then if you want to train we've got a couple of tools the your website all of the old adequacy studies are out there so you can go back and read through to very specific reports or the final reports and the presentations I think for the last few years we've been stream so you can go back and find and if you'd rather watch and also will be going back to our offices and get to work with number crunching and reading research but we would love it if anybody if you want to call and just sit down and talk to us about the matrix or about categorical as or anything very specific or truly adequacy nerds in we would love the chance to sit and visit so feel free to do that as well and. The with that we'll take questions for thank you very much Julie just one thing I wanted to say is that this exhibit F. to the matrix the right content we heard so much about the matrix during a legislative session and a lot of you have never seen what that that but this is what the final. Look like. If it wasn't exactly what either side recommended the house or the Senate it's what we came to a consensus on right right. What we came to a consensus on but this ultimately is what we will be doing and presenting. At the end of all of our work so it's really really important that that we all be involved in this and that we there's a lot of information but at the end of the day this is what we have to decide this is what we have to fill out to decide what I recommendations going to be after you've heard all this so but this is what it looks like in a lot of people don't have never seen this before but that's this is our working piece of paper that we work off of and make our final decisions on so senator of Chesterfield thank you madam chair and Julie good to see you again please the chair I would like to request Over the last three years looking at the teacher retention and support staff retention rates kind of compare them much as been said that people gonna leave because of learnings and all that stuff but I just like to see something objected that tells us when we have the other the impact. And and compared three years which is not to be too too heavy a lift if you would. That right in Adrian back will be putting that record together initial definitely be looking at that we also know we were talking about this earlier this morning we'll probably with this most recent data released also start seeing that backs of coated and our last date we get we presented was twenty one and we didn't see we are comments in our surveys but we can see it in the date as much but that may be more evident this time as well and you also know that I'm very much interested in a LD or her. And once again I I'd like to know. How many students with their at the beginning. Save last year and how many will return to the regular classroom. Because that's the whole purpose is to make them more classroom ready and I do need to know if that's what is indeed happening or is this is a life sentence. Thank you thank you. We have other questions. Senator Hammer a committee chair for the purposes of the discussion on the matrix are we gonna be using the old model are we going to be having a discussion about a new model as far as determining the matrix we are we are in I think in October we're going to have a whole session on funding models okay and so we're going to have I think Education Commission of state is going to come make a presentation and we're hoping to have somebody from Tennessee make a point but we'll look at some different funding models. Just look at them to decide look at ours And look at theirs and compare them not not you're not making a big decisions right then representative eleven. Yes a. You just comment on that will be looking at both for the for the purposes of the of the coming adequacy study we will be utilizing the current matrix but looking at other options to go forward. and they just for some things about housekeeping is I think there's a little confusion some questions I was asked the adequacy study will action that will start in January based upon the exhibit schedule that Julie gave you we will have meetings in September October and November we will be looking at things such as work force will be looking at some some different funding models during that time and so just kind of. Keep a watch on the schedule on the website we will have educ we will have joint committee meeting in September one October and one November then once we start the addicts the process in January will go we will use the Monday Tuesday model that is laid out and in the schedule that she gave me where will meet on Monday afternoons into on Tuesday mornings and that will be January through. November. Our thank you. President of spring. Thank you madam chair I just have a quick question good afternoon how you doing so. It I'm looking at the staffing ratios kindergarten through twelfth grade of those numbers consistent over the years I have a change in the time twenty two one for kindergarten grades one two three twenty three to one race for through twelve twenty five to one of those that is yep those are consistent I don't believe we can change in our state so those of in your face up for close. Thank you. So as a representative Evan said one of the things that in September we we part of the two really big parts for might. Vaught in they'll learn that one is the literacy and and making sure kids know how to read in the third grade so that's something I think we want to explore and understand what the how the department's going to do that what does that look like the others the long career readiness and it's kind of kindergarten through career so the governor has appointed a chief workforce officer and we have this career readiness as well so we want to see what does that look like and so September will have Mike Rogers with them The New. Chief workforce officer come and one of the have the folks from the department come and talk about what that and maybe some other people as well to kind of talk about what to career pathways lookalike and some of the things that they're looking at doing it if it can be exciting so but I think that the we have we have there a lot of things for us to talk about so. We have a big heavy task with adequacy but we also want to be able to have enough time to be able to put some other discussion items in as well so if you all have some thoughts and ideas and this is our meeting this is our discussions so whatever we decided it is not to Brian me whatever we as a Group One to do so. We have any other questions here senator Chesterfield thank you madam chair thank you Julie I'm looking at exhibit form while I can read this fund. I could read the standards included in the state's curriculum and career and technical framework it's not a comfortable read. Can we do better with the fun of right and I I have yes as I mentioned well this is just a small version of what your memory I worked with when this sites and we'll have that next time we were trying to answer that right it's it's think about saving people's **** will be much better thank you so much and I think it's important to that we that the equity and adequacy that is such an integral part of what lady was about. That if we have new people we need to understand how important that PC is because there's so much discussion now around the term equity. And it's become almost a pejorative but it is an integral part of what we do here. In in this committee because everything is not equal in public education. poverty is not equal English language learners are not equal so I think it's important that we have new members of the committee that we talk about why. We deal with the terms adequacy and equity at some point in this discussion right and I think when Taylor presents or legal framework she really does a good job getting into that because that in the note that came from the courts that was something were making up here that was that's a court directive. Thank you so much and maybe we can have a copy of Lake View some people never sing are the major points within like you because there are still people who have not seen that decision it's been we started working on it in two thousand three so that's twenty years ago and I think will be helpful to have people have some knowledge of it and I agree with that year that we've got to deal with other things career and technical education were not part of adequacy of workforce was not a part of adequacy but they are part of the the challenge that this committee must deal with going forward thank you Judy thank you madam chair. Representative eleven thank you madam chair of members I would just also draw your attention may have been mentioned to exhibit C. at at the request of the chairs Taylor did a fabulous job in a very quick turnaround and a short time frame of putting this together this is a synopsis of the education acts from the twenty three regular session thank you Taylor for doing this for us it's also available on the website if you go to the agenda schedule to the PDF of this that you can use in this is a wonderful resource for you when you're going back home your meeting with constituents you're going in your school districts to be able to have some really good talking points and bullet points for things that as a committee of the General Assembly that we were able to do during the recent session and so Taylor again thank you very much for putting it together thank you. Okay anybody else have something. I guess we are adjourned for the day thank you very much.