Legislative Recidivism Reduction Task Force

Allow me to call this meeting of the legislative our citizen task force reduction tas forced to order thank you all for being here I know there's any number of places you could be and probably we're going to be so thank you for taking time out your busy schedule to be here would you like to say anything center tucker this was I think something that was sort of your baby and came to four with you and just really excited about the work that we have ahead and excited about the group that we have here to do this work together and if that's the conclusion of the first agenda item i'll just transition to the second and nominate my colleague senator gilmore to be the chair of the task for. So we have emotion second i'm not sure if I should be calling for the vote but all right any other nominations all right then so we should we just move forward by acclamation thank you all right thank you all very much thanks for your confidence me thank you so sucker for that ladies and gentlemen so I know that we will be scheduling out meetings will try to schedule those out foreign of advance that there's enough note is given but before we move on I would like to go around the table that everyone introduced themselves and where they work in sort of what what role in interest they have in our citizen before I do that I want to thank my two house colleagues for being here and i'll still let them introduce themselves but uh carol dolby in work soon jimmy gas away regional gas way was certainly instrumental um in being the house sponsor of the protect arguments all act and appreciate his his knowledge his efforts on this issue so with that shall we start right here and work that way around let everyone introduce themselves chair if you would if you would press the turn your mike on their pull it close as you do that so it can be registered on zoom if you would say it again share if thomas sturgeon actually can assure chris chairman number director for law enforcement standard and training for the state and also the president of the archaeologies rather former board member perol board extra paying director for the division of correction part of the argos of department of correct jerry bradshell uh arkansas department correction director of division of community correction was a bit poorly on the executive director of the children to advocacy centers of arkansas and i'm here representing child crime victims scott claim. Exec director and founder pathway to freedom which is a christ center holistic service program that provides educational value space pre really send post release services to prisoners in those on reentry. Good afternoon and we we may have too many microphones on so I think three's a limits if you would just turn it off as you go but I think we know who you are secretary john feltz chairman of the pro board my interest in being here is to effectively uh control the population and don't make decisions that uh release indigenous at that war to be held thank you chairman hello my name is melissa richardson i'm a circuit judge from the second judicial district which is six counties and northeast arkansas I have a big variety of cases on my docket but they include two criminal terms and two separate counties in northeast arkansas and I preside over the credit county adult drug court time growth and attorney general I would say I served on the board of pathway freedom for maybe six years three years whatever it was they are these single most effective are training program process whatever for reducing reservation at least according to the department of correction's own reports there's nothing better than what they do and some plan have year i'm no longer on the board. Jimmy gears away state representative of represent district thirty one which is essentially just the city a pair gold uh before this is my I guess I should say my fourth term to serve in the house. Before I was like to the legislature I spent almost nine years as a deputy prosecutor. So I bet a little bit of experience in the criminal courts and was the correspondent long senator gilmore of the protect arkansas which included this were citizens and task force as part of that legislation so look forward to work and on it and with everyone here i'm caroled arbi and state representative for texture counter which is district one hundred and i'm the chair of the house judiciary committee and I am kim sharp now kim clifton uh I work right now on the executive assistant of excess dot live which is a non profit here in little rock we do classes at some other correctional facilities as well as trying to introduce peer services into their correctional facilities i'm also a formally incarcerated person and very humbled and appreciative to be here well again thank you all for being here taking time you certainly understand the importance of this and so your attendance here certainly shows that before we interdo some guests that are in the room with us I wanted to say to the attorney general thank you for taking time I know you're you're busy there's a lot of things going on in the state that you're responsible for so thank you for taking time to be a part of this and sit on this task for so think it's it shows the level of interest and importance that you hold with this um organization so thank you for that if we could II would like to introduce miss tony with the sentencing commission who will be helping staff this and provide information tony would you like to share I don't I don't I mean you already said my name is so I think that sort of yeah we're so we're going to be helping staff and put together documentation uhm i've got tony hamp in the audience over there if you all want to copy her on anything you sand any documentation we can get a copied coalition brought over here so everybody's go. So thanks so I think questions or anything like that you might have certainly feel free to reach out to me or jim gazaway or senator tucker or anyone else on the commission but more specifically on meeting dates or anything on the agenda I think tony would be a good point person for that uhm a neglected to recognize nathan smith who's joining us by zoom prosperous if you can hear us there is can you hear me we can feel like we're not as commercial stuff I can I can't see anyone so I don't have any knowledge any way to tell if i'm doing anything embarrassing or not but my name is nathan's mailed on the prosecuting attorney and better county and just zooming today so look forward to seeing everybody in person in the near future thank you for being with us all right I know we have ryan cooper who's hiding out behind in the corner behind that pillar rhines with the ag's office does a great job ron cooper thanks for being here yes sir I point out or you could point out probably better than I can run was innovatively involved in the drafting absolutely all aspects of the protect act a week appreciate his help on that all round a guy so right thank you what will save that for not a public setting mr I know we're gonna introduce the csg folks shortly lindsey do you have anybody here that you want to recognize yes if you would corrections my job is really program evaluation in quality more can I do that for the department just the last two years thank you for being here lensy wallace thank you for being here as well chief of staff for the department aren't with that I think we've taken enough time to introductions let's turn it over to. Absolutely mr chair represent gets when I were talking amongst ourselves I know you found that imagine our question was do we have anybody from the defense side of the bar we've got the prosecutor as a representative do they're there was i'm not sure there was an appointment at a point of person for that I don't know if they're with us today yeah we just make sure there's yes but they were they were appointed for for the law thank you for that our thought that they were going to be joining by zoom perhaps but doesn't look like they made it. The. The. I believe that person actually is in court today and so yeah okay and and just so you all know we're going to send out its some point in the very near future a list of who all was on this with contact information so that you have that so that'll let you know who who i'll be on here so without i'm gonna ask the csg folks to to join us at the end of the table there and if you would just introduce yourself and your colleagues and proceed with your presentation. So my name is three deliveries and i'm with the csg just the center and if you would is your microphone on would you double check that this makers aren't okay maybe pull little closer like I said my name is three eleventh and i'm with the csg justice center here with my colleagues and I wanted to thank you all first for having us were very excited to be here so I will just we're gonna go through a quick presentation to give you guys some information about us in the work that we're hoping to do we'll first introduce it then we'll talk about the work that we're hoping that this group will do talk a little bit about criminal justice trends in arkansas what we know right now and then talk to you about the justice reimbursement initiative and arkansas and next steps so this is the the team that will be working on the arkansas project there's four of us here in the room now we're going to find out how well I know my colleagues but carl reynolds is here he's been with the just the center for I think eleven years and prior to that he was at you council for the texas department of corrections and then worked as our court administrator shall redriggers over there she's been with the just the center for I think eight years and her background prior to joining the justice center is that she was in mitigation specialist with public defender's office met more over here prior to joining the justice center he worked with the as a fiscal analyst for the kansas legislature and spent some time as an attorney and private practice before that and my background is that I was a county prosecutor for just over ten years serving in a variety of different roles within the office and trying all sorts of different kinds of cases. We have two additional members of our team that are researchers who are not with us today but who would be working with us on this project. So what is the council of seat governments the council seek governments is a region based non part of the non profit national organization the connects state leaders from all three branches of government with one another and with resources so that they can best meet the needs of the people who they serve within the council's day governments is the just the center which specifically provides policy research expertise in order to develop strategies that increase public safety and strengthen communities now we do our work in a number of different ways but what i'm here to talk to you about is specifically the justice reinvestment initiative my colleague will talk to you more at length about how we do the justice reinvestment initiative but the justice re investment initiative is a data driven approach to increasing public safety and so the way we go about that is first we analyze the state's data to really understand what the needs of the state are once we had that we work with state leaders to empower them to make the most impact full data driven decisions that meet the states needs as you can see here over the past fifteen years the csg just the center has worked with thirty three states and the teal states are up there in the season that pasta up there and teal the orange color is current states arkansas as both a past and we're hoping current states is represented in both colors. Now I want to really emphasize that the justice reimbursement approach it's not a one size fits are it is tailored to the specific needs of the state so what's up here on this side is some examples some non exhaustive examples of the way that different states have used jri in the past to meet the needs of their state so that has ranged from things like tackling issues at the intersection of public safety and health challenges. Scaling opportunities and reduction efforts using research based programs enhancing the states data collection and developing analytical capacity and managing costs associated with prisons and jails to make sure that those resources are being used effectively. Are they alluded to earlier this would not be the first time the arkansas engaged in the justice reinvestment process the most recent past time was ended in two thousand and seventeen I just wanted to highlight some of what came out of that process. That included a provision for custodial sentences in community correction centers as a response to technical violations and violations resulting from non violent non sexual misdemeanors a requirement for training for law enforcement officers for how to respond when they were dealing with individuals experiencing a mental health crisis and the creation of criteria's stabilization units that gave law enforcement a tool to use when they were dealing with individuals with mental illness that were experienced they were committing low level of fences to divert them away from the jails and into mental health treatment in the community and with that I will hand things off to my car. I'll thank you my name is karl reynolds. Yes general I go to you once if if yes please just so I understand the governor the last broadcast twenty fifty well it would have been a request from all three branches of state government that's a a requirement of our funders in in of our own that we have that kind of buying. The website says that the governor was leaving the charge so you all been doing this been dealing with article data for last eight years what did you have security we after we go through the sort of phase one of these these projects there is a what we call a phase to michelle's going to say a little bit more about these faces but there's a period of time where we continue to receive sort of monitoring data about the trends and things that are going on in your system so that was going on for several years and I think our researcher and who was mentioned it was not here I think uh ing has been receiving some data from you offer for a throw all that time so so we actually understand that we pay the state no you just do it we're funded right so your advocates for generally you were advocates for his bill correct the twenty seventeen I think I think it was an active in twenty seventy one not mistaken on the protect we didn't know we did not take a form of position well that's different we we certainly had we're watching the process I we did have conversations with some of the members but I don't think I would say we were taking a position when we were interested in what was happening here and certainly interested in the the continuing yards continuing focus on residential some reduction so that that was what kind of brought us back to the table. So it is definitely a privilege to be here and we don't take that lightly really appreciate it i'm gonna talk for a few minutes about what brings us all here today and as a stereo mentioned focus a bit on some trends and some data points that I don't think you're going to be unfamiliar to to you but I want to want to touch on three themes as I do this and hopefully the the data points will help to with those out so the protected I don't want to be labor anything that you guys already know well the protect act is in place or will be effective just january one of next year and explicitly will apply to offenses that are committed on or after january one of twenty twenty five and you all know about the hundred percent and eighty five percent provisions in the bill but I think what's really important to stress here today is that everyone I believe in this room is realizes I think senator tugger alluded to this that the implementation of a bill like this is a is a big lift and that everyone around the table is committed to try to making it a success and that certainly are hoping our our commitment and there's a lot to do in implementing a bill like this the second two bullets here are the first example of of some implementation efforts that sentencing commission in avc will be charged with I do want to know there's a printed copy that you all have and there's a typo which is by fault in the second bullet it says twenty five percent should say seventy five percent so that protect act and I think two hundred and fifty five sections about a hundred and ninety by my count of the sections or what I would call conforming and then it's just simply changing the words at the usages that you all are using things like post really supervision and post-prison transfer board is a new new terminology that has to be strange out all through the the different statutes in arkansas. But there is a lot of substantive provisions in addition to the time serve requirements and this this page is just a few examples of things that we kind of plucked out to highlight that are there part of the bill and I want to focus just a little bit on that last on that last bullet about the division of community corrections and the charge that they are given I will tell you in all humility I would say the justice center we have a lot of staff and a lot of expertise frankly in criminal justice and we we know about all these topics that are listed here we we have some expertise but this last bullet is the one that I would really stress and I hope that I hope that we can be thought partners with the division of of community corrections on this on this piece in particular and have a collaboration on that but the centerpiece for us of the bill is it toward the end this task force on recipient is in reduction and we are we are charged in the statute with supporting your work to get that issue data analysis to determine drivers qualitative analysis to understand programs supervision resources that are intended to reduce recitivism and increase behavioral health and in general coming up with data driven recommendations so I mentioned uh three themes and I want to I want to be more specific about the first two of those things now because I think there I think they're true here and they're true in every state that we work in the first one is that most people who go to prison are going to come out again at some point recognizing that that's going to be delayed and and take longer under the new under the new requirements but the reality is that most people will come out again I think you've got seventeen thousand five hundred people more or less in prison fourteen hundred of those people have a death sentence or a life sentence probably the other sixteen thousand or so we're going to come out sooner or later and the department's excellent statistical reports tell us that the average time serve for people coming out these days is about five years. So that kind of underscores that first the reentry really matters it really matters what folks like you do to help folks as they as they emerge from prison and and hopefully become productive members of society the second theme is that here and in every other state most of the people in your criminal justice system were not imprisoned and it's it would be very difficult for all the people who commit crimes to be in a prison you've got about four times as many people under supervision in the community is that seventeen thousand number of people in prison and your best chance every state's best chance to make a serious dent and recitivism is by strengthening what's already I think are very strong and competitive part of your system because that's where the volume is you've got sixty seven thousand people under supervision in the community and that's that's where we we we don't want to lose sight of that opportunity for reducing residentism so again just quick visit with some trans and I think we'll be from there and if they're not certainly and in any case I would invite you to interrupt me and ask questions you have a higher citizen rate and this is focused on the measure of residentials and that's called return to incarceration that is I think the most commonly used residentials and measure by departments of correction all around the country so it's one in which some effort to compare across agencies or or states is at least possible and that's why we're sharing with you that that same rate as depected by the statistical reports of the neighboring states the states that touch arkansas so you've got this forty six percent rate and in the other states lower rates yes show do you have a way for. Sorry if you if you mind turn your back front on yeah so if you give if you give if someone gets ten years and they are routinely serving one year but in texas for ten years they're doing four years it is possible and some would take probable and i've got some data myself that I personally had some people collect over two years but I think you can argue that if someone's only serving a year out of a ten year versus far but or for other ten year the chances that they're going to be in these citizens statistics as higher because they never they never really served much of a senate anyway and they were sent a signal that you'll be out soon and the billboard talks a lot about this and his book some wonder this is helpful but only if you consider the percentage of our senate says that people are actually serving. Well I appreciate that point and i'm glad you mentioned taxes that's that's where i'm from it's where I learned about criminal justice and I guess I still kind of know more about what's going on in texas than anybody selling about texas well it I can tell you that so you're on hand population your prison population today the the average sentence of people in prison in our concern is that are in prison is twenty one years the average sentence of people who are getting sentenced to prison in arkansas is nine years in the average as I mention of people coming out there I would say they did serve as five years so not percentages that just outright year numbers in texas those three members are twenty years versus twenty one uh seven years give a take versus nine for people coming in and about four years versus five in arkansas so there's some some comparability texas is also a paroling state many years ago texas came up with a the idea that people with lower level fellows should serve twenty five percent at least before they're pro eligible and people with higher level more serious aggravated felonies should serve fifty percent at least before they get problem in texas is actually lived with that arrangement which I was involved in back in the nineties for all these years that has been the the way things can settle down but to get specifically the question we might be able to look at that percentage of sentence served and and will make it and try to get back to love to get with the I think this is really important because about two years ago I started collecting data only on the most serious crap meeting the ones that made the newspaper the ones that made television right and because I live in a lower and I was curious who who was killing home sir and we started building a database a hard attorney to do it. Uhm and what we found was people were sir the people that were being in the paper okay the ones doing serious crimes were serving a year or two or three on ten years which is inconsistent with what what you say but i'm focusing on bad on the bad crimes really bad graphs so for example get twelve one one springs demand one violent individual got a hundred and forty four months twelve years serves twenty four months and was out to do it again that I found was routine and I have the show you the names the etcetera but that to me without that piece of it all of the so the stuff is really hard to contextualize because that is what is driving avenue to attempted murders and in front of my within a few hundred feet few hundred yards in my front yard in the last few years and in both instances these are people that would fear in some of these uh some of these categories of big senses several downright so in any event I think that's something that i'd like to explore and um and I can be happy to show you the spreadsheet or whatever but that that really is important II agree I do think that it's also important to look at the numbers of the department of correct corrections has and you know understand that context of this sort of average is in the what's happening kind of across the board but absolutely we want to look at that at that sort of extreme end of the system and and poor results that are they are coming out of that extreme and yeah because that's how these different categories were developed where you have the hundred eighty five is to say those are the people that we just don't want out again in the fifty and I offered the fifty and the twenty five with these guys. The people that are more subject to real literation you want to give a more opportunity to be you won't have an incentive this gentleman here has about a twenty four percent where citizen rate which is the state the state wide without a program or something like that based on the april thing it was twenty twenty one report that came out for a correct so I mean I think that is a critical part of the discussion I hope you're look at that in then can can light lay that over some of these not they sir I have a question through the chair yes sir with the respect to your citizen numbers and showing architect forty six percent that you compare the definitions of residentialism statutory because I believe in quite disingenuous to show us at forty six percent when you take a state like texas that twenty percent if you will when they're definition excludes specific crimes that are non reportable as residentialism and it runs the spectrum where you overlead texas definition to the state of arkansas we'd probably be plus our minus two to four percent thank you thank you secretary and and frankly the first of all arkansas has a definition of residentials and that's it's inclusive court you look at looking rearrest you have to reconnect a consideration when you're reporting data that we have a definition and they have a definition to in those definitions or not apples to apples the we're looking at the they were looking at return to incarceration in both cases but you're right it is not we couldn't tell from the annual reports of all these different states you should put exactly exactly what's going on with the what what is being candidate is coming back into incorporation whether it's whether it's coming right back only in the prison whether it's coming into a cc for example coming into a jail and so forth. I do want to lift up the era very important part of your system which is your the residential component of your community community corrections it's it it's just a really vital part of your system and it's a place where there's a conservative effort to provide evidence based practices and really focus on the fact that the risk factors that people present and help them to to to address those factors you're your your centers receive about fifteen percent of the folks that are actually getting revoked from supervision from parallel or probation supervision and they have a a residentism rate that is eleven points lower than the overall rate and then the rate of folks that are coming out of prison now that's another statistic that I want to caution about I hope that that you don't think that this is disingenuous uhm there's there's at least a couple of pretty obvious reasons why that number would be different why it would be lower so first of all I assume and I think you would assume that this that the people that get revoked to ACC c don't have the same profile as the people that end up getting a rebook to prison that folks are sorting you know judges are sorting people out in a way that that reflects it difference overall in that profile but I also think it's important that the ccs provide better they are so focused on targeting those risk factors that people present so II think that what we would see in a deeper dive with with data analysis is that both of those things are at work that people are that are getting cc ravications are a little different but if we can bear compare apples to apples if we do a regression analysis and compare people that are really are very similar on paper that we would see that that what's happening in ccs is helping to lower those who set up as some rates and that's something that that the state should kind of double down on essentially you're a cc if you would take a question. These reserves and numbers are they just new crimes or do they include people who go back on technical violation this is returns to incarceration which would include any return to incorporation and does it include if somebody doesn't go to adc or to the ccs of their only house and county jails and then pulled from the county jail on the left excuse me I don't know the answer to that actually I know that on the left side of this chart that other category is is includes people that would go to jail or get a continuation of their provision other things that could happen as a result of a revocation that other a lot of bar or some of our relocations their whole time has served and county jail great rate i'm sure and then also one word to include what he was saying about the reset of not just by length of senate served but if you could do it kind of by crime like if it's just drug offenses was the reason that the methods are sexual events I think that's big distinct yeah let let me just say that this is this is meant to be a a look at what's publicly available on you know the agencies website and and some other sources that we have access to what we want to do in this project is work with you all to have case level data across your system so that we can do the kind of analysis that were capable of where we can really do that kind of nuanced residentials and comparison of of apples to apples and buy offense group etc really get into the weeds and and see what we can show you about what's happening in your system in a more in a more new ones away essentially and and if I may we will be having additional means to get deeper into the weeds as we go as soon as the chair sir I would offer doctor to bring a bratin to better do you some education on you and your team on the state of arkansas and the data thank you very much. So one more page about the ccs you've got this capacity of about sixteen hundred and sixteen hundred twenty nine and of a few more people than that actually nc's out as of april of this year so you're you're using them to their to their full extent and just to to highlight something that they're the usage of the ccs is mostly for in more intensive treatment and programming for people who are under some former supervision but are also being placed in the cc there's about twenty nine percent of that overall capacity that is dedicated to uh sanctioning people who commit violations of supervision either on probationar i've heard well I want to II didn't want to see something more about texas in this regard you know that we're here to talk about this idea of a justice reinvestment approach and texas is often held up as a poster child for justice reinvestment based on what happened back in two thousand seven our legislature was facing a projection that we needed seventeen thousand more prison beds that would cost a couple billion dollars to build an operate and instead of doing that they they worked with the former and research director for the form for my justice center turning for well and came up with a a strategy of building up the capacity of our system with non prison beds essentially drug treatment intermediate sanction facilities as we call them a whole array something like eleven thousand additional beds but not prison beds to help serve the pull board and to help serve judges with alternatives to putting to revoking people in sending them to prison for longer periods of time into providing more effective treatment in in programming for people so to the extent that the conversation in arkansas I realize involves. The idea of building a lot more prison beds but i've heard that there is also some thought of expanding the capacity expanding the number of ccs and I certainly think from what we know at this point it's early on but from what we know at this point that seems like something that should be there should be explored yeah you're a chair recognized yep so one thing I would point on that in nope no question that support of it but because under the protect act the more hainus violent criminals will be in the eighty five to a hundred percent in many cases they're not getting out for a long long time and so the nine violent the fifty percent and twenty five percent is it is a complete different country so you you have to consider all that when doing the new analysis gets parallel as we know in for all we'll go away the federal system which are one thing I would want to mention on capacity to think about I think it may be the next live is we hear a lot about you locked up to me or whatever arkansas. Cause I see that slot in here but what I don't see is how many we release so block how many you lock up is not that helpful if you don't know how many relations how fast they get out it's like put your kid in darm out for three seconds you did it but it didn't they weren't in there long so that's a component of it the other thing is we only arrest really convict I think and again this is emphasized sixty five percent seventy percent of murderers may be sixty percent so anybody who thinks we locked up too many people are saying we shouldn't lock up a hundred percent of the murderers if we could catch all the murders in all the rapist in all the other really really violent haines are numbers might be ten thousand yeah I was going to make that point so actually you're you're clear it's rate for violent crime is below forty percent so that's sixty percent of cases that are not even there never they're not even getting an arrest much less than a judiciation in a sentence to prison component and it just be clear on I don't think they ever caught the people that shut near my house I don't know what the records were but but yes that's a very good point if you're never arresting or never get victim there's a whole if you were to automatically going from sixty percent to a hundred percent of the success in that regard you'd need a whole bunch more yeah because you're you're hoping you do get a hundred percent rate right right and there's in there more people that are committing those categories right you won't give you one law enforcement to succeed more at clearing violent offenses in particular thank you so one of their look at it at a former reservation this gets a a question that came up earlier this is about violations of supervision that lead to admissions of prison my outfit the justice center publishes a national web. Page called more community less confinement m c l c for short and the idea that is to help policy makers understand the extent to which supervision violations are are sort of feeding the population of people that go into prison and here in arkansas that percentage last year twenty twenty one was sixty two percent so couple things that are really important about that one is uh general I heard your testimony on senate book four ninety five and yeah I think you made the point and i've heard this from some people in your position in other states that it's it's actually pretty hard to get into prison in order so you can't have to work at it and to the extent that we're comparing supervision violations to non supervisor violations which is mostly new due to cases new sentences to prison the fact that there is a high percentage of supervision violations coming in rep- is a reflection that there's a lower percentage of new adjudication violations maybe you know it's to some extent that same that phenomenon that you're saying it's it's it's hard to get in the prison some of that is if I could you may so that is because of the counting component right so in a natural this is where it all fits together when you fill up a county jail is not intended for volunteer you killed mister meter just you're supposed to have a gradient right spectrum along the the deal there from this town crime but that the you take the part of our code that is misdemeanor and you throw it in the trash when everybody knows if they commit to misdemeanor for agree saying graffiti you know wheeling down broadway whatever that they're never going to be in there yet the jail so when is to really get in there you've got to do something substantial well that and I wouldn't be surprised to learn that part of what's going on here is that from the states perspective in prosecuting cases and pleading cases. The expectation is we're going to put this person on probation and it might slow down their trip to prison but they're going to end up in prison they're they're not going to be able to to withstand the rigors of the supervision and they're going to they're going to get revoked and they're going to get a prison so that's another thing to think about in looking at this statistics still an important measure and something that uh to focus on is a potential area for improvement but with the green assault near the thing just as a matter of kind of data conversation I want to be clear this is not what we would call a revocation rate if you hear that term revocation read in our business with that means is the the proportion of people that are on supervision on parole around probation who get revoked so here in arkansas I think for probation i've looked at your year reports I believe that's about an eight percent revocation rate so dividing the number of people revoke by all the people the thirty three thousand people on probation it's about a percent on the parallel side it's about twenty one percent you got twenty three thousand people on parole and twenty one percent of those are getting rebooked so much higher not surprising and much higher risk population probably closer attention by supervision and and a and a concentrated fought process around radication on your parallel board so not surprising but but just being clear about what terminology that's what revocation rate means for us and about five thousand in local long forcement tells us all the time if we get statement we found them they were scared that they say we just let them go because nobody will take which is another comportable yeah so your prison population roughly seventeen thousand five hundred is very simply AAA a reflection of how many people are coming in the door and how many people are going out the other way right so last year in your five twenty twenty two reports that. Uh secretary appropriately publishes the differential there was about four hundred people most exactly four hundred and one people more coming into prison than going out so that's that's what's happening in terms of the dynamics of your population and again the people that are on hand average of about twenty one year sentence people that are coming in the door average nine year sentence and people going out the door average five year sentence and in texas that it's twenty seven and four so that first number that twenty or twenty one is is just an important thing to stop and and consider and it's I think you'd see that in any state in the country that you look at what's happening is the people with long sentences are stacking up in prison it makes sense people that go have a shorter sentence that cycle through more quickly people with long sentences last a lot longer they're there for an hour their average just of the sentence is twenty years and that's also reflected I think in that in the AB c's statistics about the aging of the prison population here in arkansas I think you've had a sixty three percent growth rate of with her called elderly in the time of freedom pretty far into this category people who were fifty five and over but that makes sense for for prison uh prison ages people's bodies more quickly and that and it raises the health care costs quite a bit but that's that's a really strong train in your system that you're you're population is aging and that doesn't include the approximately two thousand and the county gets correct right right those are technically assigned to eighty c but they're not physically right there are that number sector they've got better worse or whatever during the session we're talking about two thousand people at just to make the system the way it ought to be get him out of county jails there's two thousand mans right and here it is on its on this next line yeah that that number is averaged about fifteen hundred of the last many years you've had a jail backlog for a long long time this only shows the last few. Years but yeah I was two thousand as of april of this year so right during right during session that they'll inail that and that has allowed implications as you said that it affects county level justice that affects the ability to hold people pretrial job to send people to any kind of confinement as a as a mystery and it puts costs on the countries it typically is putting people into facilities that are designed for long term and cursoration there's not typically programmatic space etc to to try to get it some effort of reducing the citizens so it's enormously important they make comment through the chair with respect to the carriage back up I want to just note for the record since this administration took over we have not engaged in the emergency provisions act which allows for the release that being made prematurely right prior to this administration taking over and december of twenty twenty two over just under four hundred in mates were let out prematurely because of the long and that was kind of like a becoming a routine I think that that was the first time that we haven't done it in almost two decades right so right as i've said for the statements needed prison beds for a very long time and this administration is just getting to where we've needed to go for very long time so back in up to crime itself and and heading towards one of the general's earlier points couple years ago twenty twenty you had the third highest violent crime rate in the country well I have seen some media reporting and betting you all have seen media reporting more recently as well that showed the arkansas the highest violent crime rate in the country the reason that we're not sharing that data point with you in in a formal way like this is that in the meantime in the intervening period the FBI switched over to what's called the national incident based reporting system which is a more rigorous. And ultimately more interesting and and informative way of reporting crime but the uptake of that by law enforcement agencies across countries uneven and it and it kind of makes the these reported crime statistics a bit unreliable so that's the reason why we didn't focus on a more recent year something like eleven or twelve thousand of the eighteen thousand or nineteen thousand law enforcement agencies across the country are reporting under the new neighbors brubrick but that leaves quite a bit of activity that's not being reported and again it's uneven it's different places and you know it's it just kind of creates a problems with comparing crime rates across across states that across jurisdictions this chart is really just lifting up the the neighboring states from the previous chart so not not anything to have super focus on here I do think that i'm i'm mississippi sound it looks to me like they may have a reporting problem even before neighbors that their rate is so much lower than the neighboring states it looks like an artifact of of some kind of data problem miss chairman I just point out and I don't know what would how far back your data goes but I just got through reading a book about the nineteenth century the the violent crime problem goes by decades in decade this is not I know you probably know this is not a recent tran this is this is a problem we struggle with as a state for I won't say over a hundred years but I will say many many many many I remember your testimony on this on this on the bill sort of a violent culture almost so during the frontier culture there was a lot of this i'm not saying that's what it is today but but i'm just saying this is not a new pro- that's right correct. It is it is this sort of third theme that I wanted to to lift up that the this idea about about clearing violent crime and and catching people that commit violent clients so just to review the themes are most people are going to get out of prison reentry really matters you really want to try to change people's behavior when they get out your best bet for changing residentialism on a large scale is through your community corrections division through your folks that are on probation and parallel and in your ccs that's where you have the best shot at it really addressing a lot of people's criminal behavior it just is in its the case in in every state that that's that's kind of the golden opportunity really need to resource that system adequately you've got I think you you're well on the way to doing this but you've got to have great training you've got to have great supervision practices all the things have to be happening in in community supervision for you to cash in essentially on that best opportunity and you've got to do more as a state and you can do more to support local law enforcement with I think that this kind of gets at the implementation of act seven seventy five senator tucker that has to do with the state doing more than support local law enforcement to to to be able to clear more billing crime cases in particular those who go through things and I would leave you with but and and that this like kind of raises that that that point what what can you do what what more do can we learn about violent crime who's doing it what what effect is what what is happening with people supervision potentially committing violent crime and how can the state better sport law enforcement to address that issue did you have something general mischair and II would ask it that they the look that you'll call drug court there are veterans courts are drug courts I know there a lot of or not do not have the funding they need i'm getting a lot of requests. In my office on that but you all know a lot of more effective and I just would like to know the rates because you just said community corrections are number one I think it depends on the crime or depision on the issue because I know I just finished in washington counties drug court had a great graduation there a very effective and so let's just make sure more holistic when we're looking at this not just not just prison and committee corrections but also some of these alternative paths uhm I think that that's a critical part and again and pathway the freedom is going to twenty four percent certificate right about half the state otherwise I think there are some things to learn there in addition to the worship whole heartedly agree I do think you've got a pretty robust treatment program kind of built up in the state from what I can tell looking at the court reports and so forth uhm you know some states are not as far along but you've got a lot of different treatment courts in the veterans court and mental health court etc we need more beds mental health unit and you need more resources around the judge you mean you may have a judge to have that docket that wants to do that docket but they need access to some treatment resources they probably need to probation officer they certainly need a defense lawyer in a prosecutor you get a bill off that whole that whole courtroom of people that are they are working in the in the in the treatment court mode for that to work and I think you're you know you're on your way but that I agree with you that's something we should folk so and in general this slide is just kind of lifting up some rhetorical questions love to have you take a look at this and see if these the kinds of things that you're wondering these are the questions that occur to us as we think about the the challenges that are consolidate spacing I think that this last bullet here about how people who work in the system are experiencing what's happening we we talk to a representative of gazaway a few minutes ago about about the revolut about being a prosecutor and seeing those same people over and over and over. And and that's got to be discouraging and frustrating the flip side of that is I think judges and prosecutors in particular don't really get to see the people that actually make it through and succeed all you see is the failure is coming before you again again so that's an interesting problem in the system but there are people that are succeeding and we need to be able to kind of measure that as well as we're measuring failure and and and here about that and understand that experience for folks who've been in the system who've been in the prison uh folks who have been victimized by crime all those experiences are an important aspect of this kind of an enterprise I think that's my time michelle's coming up mister and i've got a brund to another appointment but I want to thank you you're doing a great job as chairman in everybody here i'm a leave ron cooper harding behind the column and diligently taking note someone think chairman jimmy gazway of course secretary and everybody thank you for a letter be here and i'll promise not come and and tops of my jobs and ran extra thanks for being here. Yeah. Alright why would a rapporteur and just as I do kind of walk your through which you could expect from the csteam over the next ball eighteen months and on the course of this project. Uhm and so just just reinvestment is a two part process that involves in allies and qualitative and quantitative data developing policy recommendations and if the true if the state chooses to adapt those and implementing those recommendations we refer to anything pre implementation as face one apps like the light bluebox as you see on the screen and anything post implementation is face to so during phase one and we ask at the state assembles kind of a working group that we report to regularly and in that regards arkansas is ahead of the game here we are today. Uhm this the phase one is also marked by the issue just to send our pooling data from various sources across the state we this is the way we are able to get a comprehensive and objective like out what's happening in the state and just looking at the data. And that did announce this is cobbled with extensive stay holder outreach and this that enables us to have contextualized as the easy was saying kind of contextualize the experience in the state and put a narrative around just with the data tells us. And then finally kind of our team works with this password will work with this test worse to put together some policy recommendations that addresses the states criminal justice challenges and in this case kind of reducing our citizen and also increases public safety and so this phase one work what happened over the course of eighteen months and at the end of that period if the state chooses to adopt any of our policies you are then become eligible for kind of phase to assistance which means we get to stick around and help with the implementation of any policies if you'll choose and that kind of insurers there any of the policies were together or implemented with fidelity we hope the state over company obstacles if you know if asked and that also makes the state eligible for a civil ward up to about five hundred thousand dollars the mess kind of you consider that is like seed funding to help jump start any implementation needs and so you know to kick off this work our funders require a letter of interest from state leaders just indicating their desire so I just have to reinvestment project there is a letter currently circulating the state right now for signatures and so for a definite eager to take get our work starting kind of formally in the seat now with that with that letter it's over the next couple slides i'm just going to jump through just some of these pieces just a little little more details that shall have a concrete idea of what we hope to accomplish and want to start with just access to data such as simply put having terminally access to data in the state is critical to the success of the project and I think this is something that somebody can help us with so so far we have reached out to the administrative officers at the quarter that arkansas crime information center and the arkansas appointment of corrections and to the extent that you're someone in this audience that is connected to any of these agencies and we would certainly appreciate any help that you can offer and getting us connected with your data folks and have in it be making it easy for them to kind of share data with us and so that would be kind of an **** that we have for you today. This. And then along with that number crunching we also want to start connecting with different criminal justice stay colors throughout the state and so on the slide here we've listed out the different camps that we usually connect with in this project and who we hope to connect with here in arkansas so if there's a perspective on this site that you see his missing please let us know if there is a certain person on the community that you know is is a great voice to any of these any of these camps up here please also let us know we also welcome any introductions that you might make for us. And you know II think for a justice re investment that date analysis is really the correston of our projects but it doesn't tell the full story we really need to connect with folks on the ground to understand what's going on and then just speaking from my own personal experience I would have to just enough for eight years and worked on various projects connecting the stakeholders came to people on the ground is certainly my favorite part of the project and something i'm looking for to hear in arkansas think it gives us the opportunity to like meet with folks who are often in times of dedicated their entire professional careers temporary with their communities to strengthening the communities them increasing public safety and it's always really inspiring to me with folks and so looking forward to doing that over the next few years over the next few months here with your and then second to last light here so you're almost done with this. Just walking through to the timeline of our project and what we're hoping to do that today marks the the first meeting of their citizens and reduction task force and are angle is really to help you come up with some policy recommendations that might make sense for the state I we understand there's a couple of miles stones along the way you know yellow submitting a kind of preliminary report in december and then a final report i'm at the end of next year and will certainly be around to help per write a materials for a both of those milestones. And then lastly you know car I think watch your through some questions just a minute ago on the criminal justice transit to leave you with this let this set a questions here too for you to reflect on it is certainly our intention in the coming weeks to connect with each of you all on online and start to grapple with some of these I kind of big picture questions you know like why is our citizens i'm so persistently challenging despite prior efforts to address it. You know what can be analysed to really understand arkansas were citizens and rate how much of that residentials and rate is driven by new crime including violent crime those kind of things and of course we kind of welcome any questions that you're make throw what else to continue to grapple with any commuted dig and two. More thoroughly to really understand what's going on in here in arkansas and so with that we thank you for your time we think you for welcoming us it's definitely been a pleasure to meet with you all my colleague stayers email is missing from the slide of the house should be there but will be show to get kind of our contact information and yeah carol his cards will have our business cards and so we'll be looking forward to mean with you on the near future thank you appreciate any any questions as they wrap up okay see none thank you so much and being here thank you for your presentation I know that this will generate we've added some great discussion already today I hope this will generate a lot more as we go forward and and look at this just for anyone that has information they want to share or questions they might have anything like that if you would just I think it'd be easier to work through this round her staff or myself as the chair either want I just think it helps make sure that we're not all just on one big guy you know massive grouping melons someone replies off right so with that but to do that thank you too bar colleague appear we are going to adopt the rules of procedures if you've looked those over I don't know if you've had a chance to look over it's pretty standard for what we've used on other things to have a motion to adopt a second bus The last thing on the agenda is setting the date for the next meeting I would like this to coincide with our ALC I think that makes sense and so if we could plan around that october date I believe it is the the week of the seventeenth so the sixteenth I don't know if that date works for all of you but if you could look at that we'll be setting out some more formal a notification on that but if you can all be here we're gonna shoot for that sixteenth date the week of a valc so anything else for the the good of this group before we adjourn thank you off your time and attention where it is best.