Public Health House and Senate

On other people. In various places the reading lines eighteen lunch still. Yeah yeah all right. Go ahead and call this meeting to order public health I'm gonna keep my comments short I don't really have any comments to you absent Lehman. Well one we went over on budget executive and people are still in line so that's why there's not folks in here but I just we had a couple items late to this agenda and I hope we get some folks in here to listen I appreciate to the folks that showed up here to present today someone welcome you. I do as well and and at that time will will welcome as the small business owners that have come to testify at this time added I need a consideration to adopt the minutes is there a motion. And in seconds those in favor say aye opposed vice habits the minutes from the September thirtieth meeting will be adopted this time I want to go ahead and bring up the Any Embry cabinets wire and seed had heard if you'll please come up. I feel to state your names for the record and then you may proceed I believe You have some updates an update for us I'm Amy Imbrium the director of the state medical board. Kevin acquire attorney for state medical board. Senate Tepper director of the board of nursing. Thank you may proceed. A the Arkansas state medical board would like to withdraw its rule forty six for consideration okay the staff for the board of nursing would like to withdraw the proposed rules for minors that X. procedures in chapter two section thirteen chapter four section sixteen. Thank you I just want to tell you thank you for your her row efforts on and trying to propose language to clarify rules because that's the right thing to do and I very much appreciate the three of you and the amount of work that you put into these unfortunately and yep politics of gotten into the way I think but I will expect as does I think this legislature that you do your job and enforce the laws that are on the books and enforce the state of Arkansas's laws and I hope people accountable if they are breaking them so with that I'd very much appreciate your efforts on math and I all the time that used the spin on it unfortunately we couldn't get there center can I yes thank you madam chair and I just want to add that I appreciate your work to that you did outside of our committee to come back and resolve this issue really appreciate what you did thank you thank you for being here. Moving to the next item of business before we go there I will go ahead and bring streets children up I know she has to leave early with Christy believe Thomas day if they can all three come to the table and this is an important issue that we need to understand it was brought to us a little bit you know later to represent of Ladyman it was brought to his attention thanks to some emails from from constituents and we want to dive into this issue as they are coming to the table members just a reminder there are only two meetings of the house and Senate public health committee between now and the start of the legislative session November night at ten AM November thirtieth at ten AM and at one thirty PM unless there is a meeting that would be at the call of the chair whether that would be represented Ladyman or my self and we reserve that right to call a meeting at the at the pleasure of of of the chairs if you are considering introduction of a bill that would expanding the scope of practice medical profession you would need to get an interim study proposal introduced and adopted by the committee before you can introduce a bill in the next session that would have to happen in the November meetings and at this point in time it would have to be at an ice tea would have to come from the member of a public health whether that be house or Senate and because we passed that the deadline for that right if manager can benediction before they start Representative Ladyman you're recognized alright well first off doctor chillers I appreciate you coming in such short notice I know you've got another meeting at one thirty we'll try to get you out of your sins we cancel well let you talk first but appreciate you all being involved in this and we've discussed this in some detail in the hopeful we can just get some information out for folks and maybe solve this problem and also miss blew in Mister day appreciate shall being here you know you go in from Jonesborough appreciate that. And and presenting what you all are seeing as a business that's what we like for you to do so we'll give you some opportunity to do that a little bit later on so feel would all just introduce yourself for the record and then we'll be ready to go there by with inducer selves thank you Representative Ladyman thank you senator senator Irvin shrieks shoulders director of division of work for service. Keep your address Kelly assistant director unemployment insurance. Christy blue a small business owner out of John for Arkansas and out of Mississippi as well. A Thomas day franchisee great clips small business owner little rock central Arkansas Thank you I'm gonna deferred Representative Ladyman on this section. All right of doctor chose you would just Go ahead and talk about what tell you see the situation that would is that can you do that yes Sir thank you so at the we're here today to talk about the affect of coded related unemployment insurance charges to employers and we will go into the details of those those charges as the ace as they are currently and have been reported to employers as of the second quarter of twenty twenty but first before we begin that I think I'm sorry let me interrupt you just say there should be some handouts those been handed down yes for the members. I'm sorry this would put members we got handouts which are the quarterly tax bills for the two businesses so you get these and you kind of follow along what we're what we're talking about here go go ahead Representative Ladyman if I can I've also receive those charge statements in emails from Arkansas and Mississippi may I ask you to the seat look at those and I'm hopeful that the copies that you received not have socials on them they do not we like those that wonderful thank you that was obviously concerned we have doubt the names in the so secure thank you very much so all while all states are looking at how we distribute benefits during the crisis one also looking at how are you I'd benefits are funded and of course that's through the unemployment trust fund. Four three federal funds that are being provided through the the corona virus cares act so our interest of course is on both sides the employer and the employee and we also want to while doing that we want to ensure that both parties have the benefits that they need and that employers are not faced with higher you are tax rates at a time when when it is most difficult for employers to manage their business and to stay in business during this call but nineteen crisis so most states are doing exactly what we're doing and some of already enacted as Mississippi has done in acted modifications or or changes to the way that their charge statements or their charges against employers are being calculated in Arkansas we are still considering our options we must work under the federal law as far as the unemployment insurance laws concerned through the US department of labor and we also must work under our state law which in every state our state laws do have a differences in in the employer side and the employee side so we want to make sure that we are we are utilizing all the resources that we have that we utilize the exemptions that we have our guidance that we have in order to provide employers I with the best option for them based on federal and state law and that's what we're currently doing today so the statement that that was sent out for Arkansas that was sent out in June of this year so was it for the second quarter it was mailed out I'm sorry July it was mailed out on July the fifteenth of this year on July the fifteenth we were not sure what in this particular case which I think is being questioned today which is the waiting week which is the credit one of the credits that's given on the statement and also then the state executive order credit which was given in Mississippi when there's was mailed out in September in when I for mailed out in June to live on July the fifteenth weeded one didn't have the information that we needed from the federal government in order to make a decision at that time but that is when we those statements are normally mailed out and so we. seated with mailing those out when they are when they were scheduled to mail out I say Mississippi does the same thing which is the email there's out after the second quarter of the year but they held on to those knowing may be that there would be some changes and did not mail that second quarter out until until September. I if we wait until September we may have had a little more information but we're still looking at at all of the options so on the report that you have in front of you for Arkansas which is the one that cation I can speak to that shows all charges as of the second quarter. Of the year and that is this is for as you'll see at the top this is not a bill these are court this is a quarterly statement it shows the employer what charges are on their account and gives them the opportunity to look at those and have and have a period of time in which they can bring this to our attention and make a request for review so that's what's in front of you today I look forward to your your questions I'll ask if kisha has any thing to add to my statement if if she made so thank you or in the meat let me ask you a couple questions here so. When do they still this bill as of today. Well like it says on the top of the statement this is not a bill because this will not be their final statement that final statement will go out December the final statement will go out. In December of this year in December is that for the full year for a quarter. The final statement is the annual tax rates and the charges on this statement is used to calculate the annual tax rates okay. And that's due in January they will have to pay whatever that balances in January now the annual the the tax rate is a quarterly tax you they pay quarterly okay I'm I'm just trying to understand this so there's an annual cost and they'll pay a quarterly is that correct no there's not a there's not annual cost. Will be you just said you given the cost. We we sent out the annual tax rates in December for the for the very next year which will be twenty twenty one and that tax rate that the annual tax rate statement is going to let the employers know what they're tax rate he is for the whole entire year of twenty twenty one the bill pay a fourth of that each quarter is that correct that's correct okay. Okay and as of today Well you can answer the question okay. All right so of members there there's two handouts one of them has an email on the front of it. And the that is miss blues quarterly statement so the email she sent to me and and she has a letter talk to this but she has businesses in Arkansas and Mississippi so there's two quarterly bills or one from Arkansas one from Mississippi and that's what doctor Jones with referring to there the other in doubt is Mister days quarterly and understand this is not a bill I understand that I keep calling the bill but quarterly estimator statement whether you want to call that so that's his quarterly report and you can see at the bottom his is total charges is a hundred twenty seven thousand eight hundred ninety seven dollars now I know that's going to change but that's what it is when this came out miss blues was twenty eight thousand and forty five dollars and. My discussion with miss blue was that this is not a charge that you normally has with her business which is salons and it's an extra charge service very difficult for her to pay this I'm sure Mr days the same situation so it's a charge they don't normally see and it was charged when you all had to close down and FOR low all of your employees because of the governor declaration of an emergency so with that I'll let you all just talk about where you are just give us an idea of what you think about this situation you can take turns so prissy. Thank you Representative Ladyman and yes that's we're here today just because we wanted to bring that to the attention of everyone that this is a very unique situation that he or I have not ever been in prior and it's all as a direct result of Kobe nineteen and the government mandated shut down so. To kind of summarize. When the governor mandated that we close which was March twenty fifth we encourage and even helped all of our employees fill out their unemployment paper work you know we wanted them to do that that's what what it's there for and that is how they were going to make it through this through this time and so we encourage that and help them with that the end we were not able to open again we were allowed to open again on may sixth so during that period of time all of our employees were on unemployment he had a great deal more than I did he has more salons and I do so his is you can say is charges considerably higher than mine so when we receive the statement obviously we we recognize that this is all correct that these charges you know they did occur our employees one receiving an employment and and that was actually up a lot safer for the during this time however on the side of this as being the business owner when we see this you know at first I was extremely alarm to because I know what the result of the sea is if it stays like this then when my tax rate is re figured I'm gonna pay consider a considerable amount higher than I have ever in the past strictly because of this which was beyond my control as a business owner because I was ordered to shut down and they had to get on unemployment so in light doctor sugar stated the statement from Mississippi because I have businesses in Mississippi as well it came out later and when I receipt and and just like she said it was probably because they were working on a top of credit so that's why they did send it out so when I received it and saw that it had the credit already on like thank goodness that one's you already taking care of so the reason why we're here today is because we just wanted to bring it to your attention and ask. You know is there a way to get this taken care of because it was directly due to the state mandated shut down that was beyond our control and you know the department of workforce has been nothing but helpful every time I've talked to them and you know their hands are tied essentially until they receive more instruction about how to help us and and so we're kind of here today not just for ourselves but because this is an issue for. But who knows how many small business owners in the state of Arkansas that also have a a statement like this and I've never had a statement that hardly had anything on it before so my unemployment tax rate for my businesses like point three percent well you know charges like this are going to make that so much more unless we can get this second quarter for give in so to speak and have it not count toward the re figuring of our tax rate. Yeah just to concur just from the cash flow standpoint from business you know we we live month to month as well so we rely on revenues come in during cove it revenues have been down not just for us but restaurants any other business so is not just hair salons is those that are business owners that have had employees that have had to rely on unemployment insurance and so I'm looking at this state and I'm thinking okay I'm twenty thousand dollars a month to pay back over the next four quarters what thirty forty grand a quarter whereas right now paid four thousand dollars last year and unemployment insurance and so now that means for next year as I begin to budget look at promotions liquor raises liquor revenues it just puts further strain on on the business trying to understand some the cares act that was passed by Congress and or there's some findings for state unemployment in has that have a potential to be applied in in this situation to release some distress some of some of the burden from us it as small business owners and so again that's why we're here just to bring it to your attention to see what some solutions are some potential remedies so next year I don't have a hundred and twenty thousand dollar bill that I have to you know pay back so so yeah it's it's concerning. Alright thank you thank you very much of and I know we've got some questions but doctor chillers The. It is my opinion asked me if you are tell me if you agree that they will see additional charges because they were mandate to shut down and they had cost their their their rates will go up is that. True I mean can you say that's true. Out I would like I want to make sure that I'm correct in what I'm saying that I believe that the second quarter chart we we are saying that the second quarter Chargers are higher than third quarter charge is that correct so this will be one of the highest statements yes statements that an employer has or will receive I think it's important to note that the amount at the bottom the total charges that's not how much they passed a that's it that's used in a that's a percentage that's used in the calculation to determine what their charges will be and they're bill will be for each quarter yeah I understand that but they will incur additional charges because of the shutdown. Yes Sir just like you know in any under normal circumstances unemployment insurance is insurance so when you file a claim against your insurance your rates go up most of the time so that's that's my point they're going to be charged extra because they shut down and they were shut they were mandated to shut down it was not their decision now the second part of the question is. do we have any way of of paying that are all sitting there because it was due to the virus I mean cares fun are there any cares funds that are designated for this extracorporeal these types of businesses well we're looking at several options right now so that we can we can hopefully do what other states have done and that we are there's a non charge that we are we are not charging those all of those charges to the employer in some states they had pre existing law that prevents the employer accounts are being charged when it's related to the disaster in the that was of about a half a dozen states in Arkansas we did not have that will so we're looking at what options we have based on current state law that we can apply what we already have in place for what what could be done to relieve those charges since they are not due until after the first quarter or the end of the first quarter so we have some time to to work through that and we want to make sure that we provide whatever we provide is in the best interest of of the unemployment trust fund which thank you all for your support of recently of the cares act funds and the appropriation to be able to put a hundred sixty five million into the unemployment trust fund to prevent future increases for employers however we there is just not one problem there are numerous prongs that have to be considered a not just the balance in the trust fund that also what this looks like a year from now and what we need to do in the future to protect the employer and the trust fund and we're gonna let you go one one of the questions based on. In your experience the do you know or you have an idea I mean how many businesses are going to be affected this way I mean is that a big problem or is it just a small problem. You get an idea of how many business of them in this boat add I don't have the exact number but Representative Ladyman just you know we all know that that all businesses will most businesses have been affected by covered nineteen there some there are some that I've heard that it had you know up to three hundred percent increase in sales during because of it so that will offset obviously so we're looking at we're looking at all of those options how to be fair and then looking at the impact that it's going to have to employers down the road we understand the importance of that okay so just so we understand that so I understand the numbers this is a pool so you mention some businesses are up and they pay into this pool so that will affect the businesses that are down the rates is that correct. Well I'll ask of ice cation to to correct me if I'm wrong here but this state the the businesses that are they did not have claims against their against them for unemployment their rates will still be based on their current their current number of employees and number of employees that are that are are working and not on an employment. It in all calculation I'll tax rates are calculated the same so we we wouldn't know if those of their employers had benefit charges are and are not. Okay Senator answered by Kobe for most thank you so I'm on the care steering committee and we put a hundred sixty five million dollars into the trust fund what is that going to do is that not going to affect this for these business owners because I mean according can you describe why then it was only a hundred sixty five million wide and we put the whole two hundred fifty million into it or more. They calculation that was used for the hundred sixty five million was to keep our unemployment trust fund balance of up to the point where of where A formula I determines whether or not that goes from right the state police station right goes from point two percent to point three percent which side employers ten million dollars so that was one like I said this is multi pronged so that was one prong of the unemployment insurance calculation so quick just minutes so as putting more money into it would not have affected the situation. Four then under current law and that's what we're that's what we're looking at is options under current law were were determining if current law allows us to use those benefits to offset the cost to employers that would Mississippi did. Mississippi had and and Two minutes ma'am trying to understand why Mississippi credited service credit on their statements and we. We are not doing that so what's the difference between the Mississippi did one Arkansas did Mississippi Mississippi's governor I did an executive order where employer counts were not charged with the benefits a tribute attributable to cover nineteen with that non charge provision of fictive from March eighth to June twenty seven seven thousand on for that second quarter Senate without an option that are governor could have also done again we're looking at the options and there's nothing I don't think there's any provision that prevents us from being retro active did y'all ever discuss that with the governor yes we we did is we with we didn't discuss this particular issue but we kept sector president and the governor informed all along of the trust fund balance of the impact to the employee and the employer at thrall the co that nineteen provisions so so all of these things are dependent upon what we're allowed to do an Arkansas law and I understand that I just again I want again we had statement that got sent out in July and obviously it was a big shock for a lot of these businesses and so much you know that was to lie so to me I would have gone to the governor and said Hey we're about to send the statements out. Did that happen did do we go to the governor and say we're gonna send the statements out and people are going to get shot when they see this there are some options that we have on the table for you to issue an executive order are you interested in doing that and and what their recommendation from the department of commerce. To to do that I mean. No ma'am we did not provide of a statement to the governor that said these employer charges are going out and that this is our recommendation okay. And you had the conversation with him though recently about this a to this this situation secretary prestin yes he is aware and he's expecting our options of tomorrow which we will discuss at that time. Keep in mind that until just like the governor Mississippi employer statements did not go out until September. And the governor of Mississippi did not issue the executive order on the front end it was on the back end after this was discovered so just like we're we're looking at how how do we go back in and address something that is that has happened and operating under our law so I understand that it's not that we weren't talking about it the entire time is just if there was no way to know what the charges would be for the second quarter until at till June. Shepherd June thirtieth rise year I understand that my last comment though is. We are on the care steering task force and that money that pot of money available to us is dwindling and this was one of mine number one can I mean this is one of our concerns we talked about it on the cares committee I know legislators to talk to me about this because they were hearing the same types of things from their small business owners particularly and so it's concerning because we have to have that conversation before we go off and spend you know more money on something else we have to know all the issues that are laid on the table the center We need to let doctors go I know she has a meeting but but I just would like to add. Again our businesses got a shock here. And you know if miss blue had not call me and talk to me and met with me. I would have no idea what was going on here so she came she spent time to talk to me she drove all the way little rock to to to try to get to the bottom of this we need to let our businesses and our goal if this is going to happen in and we've gone through the and I know three four times when. Things just hit us coal or are ours constituents come to us and say Hey what's going on here and we don't have a clue. And senator Irvin even sits on the cares committee she didn't know about this so there needs to be better communicate is the fourth or fifth time I've said this in this committee there needs to be better communication with the legislature. You know on the front end not after these things are done. And and we need to help our businesses stay in operation and they just get it cold like we do. So I I'm I'm not jumping on just you have fallen jazz for that but but all agencies need to communicate to us much better I appreciate your time with the letter goes yeah thank you thank you thank you senator you want to go to questions. Senator hammer. Well I don't know my question is going to be did what Mississippi do how did they make that arrangement with the federal government and not to. And it's not count against them doctor Childers understood can can your can she stay and answer the questions. Do you have anybody else from division of. So there's nobody else from. Yeah we need you back to this committee of maybe we can schedule for next meeting. On November ninth with press schedule for them or before. I'm sorry Senator hammer go ahead and maybe staff can go ahead and start working with them to get the answer but I was just curious how Mississippi maybe other states were able to get the ability to give the credit without it not ultimately either being the tax credit or it being Something that would be charged against the unemployment account or adversely affect you know point account and if they're gonna come back we give them a heads up that's the question so they be prepared with an answer I'll get from one one center in right thank what Dr Childress said sort of answers that question about some states have laws that allow that state laws I don't know that that would affect the national. law but. I don't know the answer that so I guess we'll try to get him back I found this warehouse state could pass a law that would relieve them of the federal obligation or not adversely affect him and maybe staff condition researcher will get thank you. Representative only. I guess minus for staff whatever but my questions over on that too I don't know if these numbers reflect the six hundred dollars extra that they were given because of the pandemic so is that that amount included in that. I do not believe that is looking at the numbers of the staff and the mountain receive I believe it is G. us the state portion that the statement shows that does not include the six hundred I thank all know that I'm just looking at the numbers and that's what my numbers reflect as you know what he said thank you and thank you both for come for coming here today sorry I was on that just got it yesterday I I have the the the September statement now for our unemployment charges just receiving yesterday now is not a hundred twenty thousand it's fifteen but there's still additional charges that are I guess still carried over from the quarter so if I add that fifteen to the one twenty then you got that one forty level now for needing to at some point pay back then it's still kind of confusing from a business owner standpoint because the way we pay unemployment. Insurance as we do every payroll so we pay period to pay people every two weeks and we have a a rate that we're charge for the entire year and that rate changes from year to year as I look back at my my statements I've been is high is like one point five in this last year I was point five and there's not a serial direct correlation between charges that you've had to your account with what your rate is because I've had zero charges on my unemployment account for the last two years but yet from seven are from eighteen to nineteen the rate went up by point one percent and so I can only see if I'm paying back this hundred twenty harm forty if I go to three or four rate it's all based on payroll so I'm paying in a lot of money per quarter just kind of based on how how it's calculated so In the eighties at a direct direct result of the government mandate shut down I think that's what's so hard for us is because you know if I terminate people and that causes me to for an employment then so be it that's on me but this is much greater than that and you ask the question a minute ago and I had actually asked this question already and gotten an answer you ask how many business owners and businesses was this affecting because of this I called the department of workforce and ask that question and the answer was that in a normal Porter like quarter one of twenty twenty there were around eleven thousand of these mailed out at the end of quarter one that had money on it that was okay in quarter to there is twenty five thousand of these mailed out to business owners so it over you know over double because any it was you know directly a result of the shut down and so I think that's where we are with this we know what's going to happen is if there is not something done to forget this so to speak then we know that when that rate is recalculated twenty twenty one that are are and my number's not gonna be point three anymore and I'm going to pay significantly more just because of this. Yeah I think I think staff is here and I my question to you would be to pull our legislation on the and to And other surrounding states to see about what they have done or what they are doing X. and also pull the executive orders that were issued in other states that relieved these type of issues and Again this is something that we should have been kept apprised of like represent of Ladyman for the. Represent billing are you done I was so sure colleagues now as a small business owner you know it's we pay more than this would take over police checks and we this percentage it really makes a huge difference a huge difference so I know that in so anyway appreciate you guys bring this Ford I hope you can hear it again in November to get to the bottom of this so thank you let me and I I have a little experience in this area and not until that didn't really agree with France I think there's a pool of funds that every business pays into. And so if you have. You know Walmart prover those grocery stores which are going up my hundred percent in their sales they're they're making more money in and I think. Like you says based on payroll so they'd pay and more so the end of the year they look at this whole pool you have businesses that are negatively pulling on that pool and you have others that are positively adding to that and that all goes into a formula so that that's really hard to predict but I think all businesses affect that. And just that's my opinion. Thank you Senator hammer thank you Mr chair and I appreciate shall come down and bring this to represent les mis attention and thanks for being here I'm just curious in your industry of state several I know are like booth rental only and then there are others that have actual employees so all these are reflected on here actual employees right they get W. to use. Yes absolutely that's our our business is a little bit different from that the ones that do both grant we are not like that at all these are all our employees you know that we and and you know we actually he and I both we actually help to them all fill out the unemployment paper where can I mean we did we I sat down with people and help them do this because I wanted that for the on that how they were going to survive during this time and so and it's kind of a double edged sword you know but that's wine you know that's that's what we're here because we felt like you all the know that we had this part. You know that may be that which is you know you have so many things in front of you that you're having to deal with especially during coated and we just wanted to make sure that you realize that this was going to be a huge strain on us if if you know we had to carry this into twenty twenty one follow manager yes. So you know comment was may while going to agree that lot of times we as legislators find out after the fact decisions are made then we got to react by dealing with the people that electors which that's okay that's our job we won't be accessible we sent through multiple multiple multiple of public health meetings where we've had the department healthy and explain why they make decisions about things but we have yet seldom of get an opportunity to have people that their decisions have actually affected like you all in your industry I just like to hear from you as far as what you think about the decisions that the department health has imposed upon you as an industry and could there have been things done differently if the industry would have been given a bigger opportunity to weigh in on those decision so you would not have had to be shut down in the first place. Thank you for the question I I think early on when disco that first started nobody had information to know really what to do and so you look at industries like ours June's other industries where you have really close contact with your customers and so the first thought is art how can we keep everybody safe how can we flatten the curve is how many times do we hear that and so initially okay it made sense let's let's take a step back see how this bars reaction see how different business you John rose perform and are there are the spreading or the not spreading. After the first I guess my on it it became con obvious at least us from from a business owner standpoint that what is workers is it worse to be exposed to something our take precautions and still continue your life and continue your business as Christy said I mean we have single moms we have those that that rely on this job so they can provide for their families and for their children and you can't yeah just say that one you have to protect everybody were at the same time you're not protecting the well being of your staff and so as we progress through we are seven months into it and we still have some restrictions as a hair salon we're we're still limited on the number of people that can come in through the door obviously the match requirements for customers and FOR staff at the sanitation requirements and I and I think it's of you as you look back at contact tree scene in the rates people are getting code in here salons in Springfield Missouri there there's a a great national paper I think the CDC even referenced and talk about it was a great clips in Springfield of all places and you had I believe to stylus at that were Kobe positive that work with customers for three or four days and from that contact tracing they realize that no customer got a covert from those stylus no other stylus got code from the stylus those styles actually went to GM's went to restaurants whether positive and didn't know what none of the contact trace resulted in positive Kobe cases and so the the spread an issue like okay yeah there's some concern but as we progress we realize that is at least in our industry and even our staff now is is a lot more comfortable working with with customers again from the sanitation protocols we do take sanitation very seriously not just in cobit but in our in our business we have other issues that we have to make sure that we protect against you know live a staff the those kind of things and so. it is beginning to be a little now I mean because you hear the same stuff every day you know here's a thousand people that got code here's another thousand people got co that will not happen in our business but yet our business is still restricted on how we conduct business. So it's been a progress in and I don't know Sir have a a direct answer but at some point life has to get back to normal for any business a restaurant you have to have people back into your restaurant ET we have to have customers comfortable coming back into our salons and we're both down about thirty percent from where we were last year just don't because people are scared people don't want to get out is frequently a hair cut cycles sixty eight weeks for guys to to get her cuts now it's twelve to fourteen so yeah I might need a haircut but I don't really want to deal with the restrictions are having to wear a mask and so read about answered it's change you know we first started we definitely understand now is kind of like look at the numbers and look at our industry look at some other industries and and let's see some of those restrictions to where we can do business a little bit easier do you see a thing that Do you see anything that should prohibit you from being able to open up full speed and and go. I I don't you at. Just look at the numbers I mean it if you have information from the health departments the people are getting killed in here salons. To thank you thank you Mr. Thank you. And the I mean we will work with the agency because. Thanks and health care to had to you know everybody shut down but it's small business owners who then did the PPP program are in a different boat and may or may not have to pay that money back so. Yeah I think so many businesses were struggling to figure out what to do with their employees and to do the right thing by other employees and so you have a lot of small businesses that did do the PPP program others that did what you did to help people get on unemployment so you know I think we're just gonna have to rye also with this whole thing but that needs to be a full discussion with this legislature from the people in our agencies and so we represent of Ladyman great job on this it that we need a full discussion about this issue. With the legislature and so tomorrow I will ask that at the agency's during a LC and it will be this committee and maybe in partnership with another and we will have a full discussion about this so that we have that we can make informed decisions particularly going into the next legislative session started in January as. I have one more thing is kind of what you're saying from the business on a perspective as well there's been I guess a mis understanding because we see national headlines we hear about the cares act we hear about unemployment fines and until we started talking about it I can't assume that alright we got this bill but the cares act was supposed to cover part of it so I didn't really think twice about women I might actually be on the hook for this this amount and she actually took it upon herself and I appreciate or doing again get in contact you to bring it to your attention because apparently it's not going to be forgiven just automatically so there's also a misconception daily from the business owner's standpoint as well that might need to be communicated to more business owners because they they might have just gotten a statement of I okay well you know this is zero I don't know anything you know this is not a bill so they just kind of soon is on the county is right in. I work in healthcare. The bill but you might have to do this to somebody locally gonna pay this starting in a line the US I just appreciate go ahead I just want to say thank you so much I mean to as a small business owner like he and I both are to be able to come in here and you did genuinely see that we have an issue and genuinely care and take it upon yourself to see if you can get something done I mean you know that's as good as we could ever hope for an and Representative Ladyman was so great about meeting with me and just you know talking through this with me and he was so quick to act upon it in here you know here we are and so you know I think that's what is so great to someone in the general public so to speak to know that we can come to you all with that true issue that affects and factors in a major way and you actually go Hey I'll mass we didn't even you know the we've got to look at this further and and that means a lot and we appreciate that so much thank you all for coming and Thomas you didn't notice till today I believe so you should have today. And Kristin known to yesterday that bind you to calm so appreciate you all coming up bring up and keep in touch on this we're we're gonna be working on it thank you thank you are you are welcome to wait around what's the meeting if you don't get bored thank you have a safe drive back to John's pearl. All right moving on we will go to item F.. Caleb offered a Leslie Fisk in if they can come up with the department of parks heritage and tourism and they're gonna give us a synopsis of the business interruption insurance grant program. That I believe was passed by executive subcommittee earlier today. Thank you thank you madam chair Caleb Osborne department of parks Terrigen tourism. I thank you madam term Leslie Fisk and and I I have joined this is my fourth week at parks heritage and tourism I'm excited to be there and we've been working on this business interruption grant and I am chief of legislative affairs. So. I thank you all for being here and I I brought this end to these gender just the day or two ago and I know that this is in the process that went to executive thirty minutes or an hour ago it's going to be on council tomorrow this rule but I appreciate you all coming in letting us know and getting us involved I would like to be involved earlier in this but it seems like a really good program you god but we we public health committee needs to know so I appreciate your being here so we'll go in Percy. All right thank you Mr chair in kind of in that vein I know this is not a committee we frequently appear before sometimes but not as much as some other department you engage with and so we do appreciate this opportunity to come and present give you an update on where we are and we do want you and all the members of this committee. To be aware what we're proposing with this business interruption grant proposal because is was alluded to on previous agenda items and I. Equal discuss some more we want to spread the word and let affected businesses know that we believe that there are some opportunities for some support and some help they can get and so as you said I think in front of you now are copies of the rules of the executive subcommittee. Approved just as you said a few minutes ago and that outlines a structure this business interruption grant program that is that we are proposing is a we're going to use fifty million dollars from the cares act federal cares acted was allocated to this through the cares acts during committee and this is going to go to the service and hospitality industries. To help businesses that have been directly impacted by cove in nineteen measures We are the way this will work is will be a reimbursement program for businesses in these industries that have have experiences impacts are gonna be able to submit information and regarding eligible expenses that are identified in those rules before you and they will be able to receive I reimbursement we anticipate given the number of businesses that this may include you will likely be a reimburse of a portion of those of eligible expenses but we think you can be some much needed help and support as you said will will be seeking some approvals tomorrow and then hopefully we will then begin the process of. communicating and we we have are planning a robust communications effort to let people across the state across all these industries know and work with you all that work with other industries and associations in in our stakeholders we have particularly say through tourism to let folks know about this opportunity out there and then we anticipate opening the grant program to accept online applications in the mid November we're talking beginning November sixteenth we'll have a ten day window to receive applications to give everyone an opportunity submit information about eligible expenses that they may have the once it is completed we will Collect that information and make determinations on grant awards for these entities and because it is cares ACT monies we will have it distribute awarded and distributed by the end of December. Leslie do you have any other. Thing I miss. Thank you covered everything we do I'm and in some of our communications with some of you members that are in here we and in addition to the as part of the communication plan we also prior to an application goes live we will have a phone bank that will be open a week prior to the opening of the application so that any business owner will have a number and not phone bank will be open from seven AM to seven PM to accommodate all businesses to call in with any questions that they have and we also will have a checklist available for business owners that will give them that will enumerate each of the items that they're going to need as part of the application process we've been working very hard with the consultants to try to make this as user friendly as possible. N. one item I should add before any questions you may have this really has been a collaborative partnership between sweet parks here does in tourism with Arkansas I can economic development commission and DFA has been very instrumental in helping us because it's a large task it's an impressive in a challenge that we face in the with cove it in the cove economy and I think each of our agencies is brought something to bear to help us move this forward in advances so what we're here today representing that I wanted you all to be where there's other agencies that have partnered with us in this process as well as the legislature because there's a lot of legislators that worked on the well I'm I have a quick question you said you're going to award the money by December we have always been told that the money had to be spent by December. For who ever receives the money had to spend by December is that in the now are we changing advice because that's what we were operating from from the very get go is that whatever money we had this even if we dispersed that is still had to be spent on December thirty first all of the money that will be coming out of this will be in the form of reimbursements for expenses they have already have or are they expenses they've already incurred so it's my understanding that that requirement that's I'm glad you raised that point that would be satisfied by the the nature the reimbursable expenses okay. Right a good represented Ladyman. Thank you madam chair thank you for that presentation and and let me just come in the are you all don't come before us very often but you know this is public health. And anything code with if that's not public health I don't know what it is right and so when I go back home and I'm down to grocery store and somebody comes up and says Hey your chair of public health what about this. And I don't know squat about that because it went to counsel or somebody else. So I mean if it's co wood related this committee ought to know about it at least and hopefully somebody would come before us and tell us about that in an I personally have had issues with that because some departments have not come before us and let us know what's going on so that's why we ask you to come in and it sounds like a really good program and the other thing we were you heard some of the comments about the previous item on the agenda and I believe some of this money might help those folks in that industry that's a service industry in my mind so I thought it was related to that so that's why I want to get you in here too and that the to get some information from you about this program And I know I was in the executive committee earlier over there and I know you don't want to fast track and get it going in and start around the member first to get this thing on board and and I appreciate to work on that that passed. Yeah and my thank your buddy over there December thirtieth if the day I think that we're required to spend it but to remark on those follow up on that before we go to questions I do very much appreciate all listening to us because it was important to have an open periods not first come first serve so that you can get everything in and assess the needs and then the first the money and try to help as many people as possible and that's the right way to do this and very much appreciate the collaboration that you all did with the department of agriculture to because they did the exact same thing so one of the note one of the concerns and I had spoken to Mr Fiske in about this with making sure that all areas of the state were covered because we know the tourism industry we don't want just the big conference centers and they have trust they have suffered tremendously because all the conferences have been Cancelled so but there are a lot of other and that in practices air BMPs hotels motels you know the small conference centers that also have been tremendously effected in a lot of those are in rule parts of the state of Arkansas and particularly some of the small towns in my town alone is a tourist town and has been impacted a greatly so I know if you can speed just quickly before I got to represent of love for questions about the outreach efforts to make sure that we are covering all of those areas and how you're going to do that. Certainly. Use me certainly and I think the average effort is going to be we've you that is a very critical part of this because because you said there's businesses across the state that have been impacted in and we care very much about making sure they're aware of this and if they have the full opportunity to seek what support what help they can get from it so we are continuing to refine our communications plan but we know already that will use resource that we have through our Arkansas to resume division there's a robust network of entities not just you know of the larger ones but many of the small tourism related businesses are out there that received newsletters regular correspondence and other organizations and groups that were regularly communicating with will be working with them we intend to do some social media content and we are even looking at the possibility do in some add some and placements using resources we have elsewhere as I mentioned earlier our partnership with economic development they have constituents and stakeholders that there had been engaging with another programs they've done the did many of them will have businesses that they would deal with that will be interested in and have an opportunity to six of these funds as well and So those are some kind of core parts of that but will continue to grow it I've you this meeting and discussion with all of you all is putting something on your radar so that if you do get a question is represent Ladyman mention y'all are well versed in ready for that and we can help push out information as it becomes available to you all and that is that's been our intent and that's something we think is gonna be a critical element of it what aid to the two things I would recommend I mean radio radio advertisements are important I think not you know I think if you can do radio across the state that's important also Arkansas bankers association and the banks they're gonna know these businesses that are struggling and could help really get the word out I think particularly in rule parts of the state of Arkansas so those are two suggestions I would team up with the banking association bankers association and the banks because me without them there's so many small businesses that would have collapsed because they were the ones actually that help to guide so many businesses through the PPP program and other and they're also familiar with the grants that are available sometimes or ADC. Yes Mr Speaker I'm I have one follow up to your comment thank you for those recommendations we also in working in partnership with all of you to reach all her district and we also are a plan a working with the department of health and for them to help us identify the boards and commissions that regulate a lot of these like the personal care industries will be impacted that were would be applying for this grant so we're gonna also work even within state government also to help build this communication plan okay great represent of love your in your. Amend Sheeran and I think you touched on my first. Couple of questions are going to have so it is good to hear that this is not a kind of a first come first serve that we are going to be assessing the needs but I do want to touch back on the twenty request the conference centers and specifically I know I have one that's in this in this region which is the sentence bank arena and they've been and impacted just like all these other small businesses like hotels and different things like that and some and I do want to try to discuss if you can just in just a short brief hearing about what what is the what is I know that we state that. I've been in discussions where the cities and the counties are going to try to take care them out of their portion of funds have or if you have a county such as Pulaski County in which we're probably going to use all are covered funds and more the end what specifically are we going to do for those beanies like that they have been impacted by conflict. Well thank you for that question because I know that and that's a good example of some entities we receive a lot of questions about and I will tell you that my understanding is that the is As you said there's been discussions going on about support from the cities and counties the hundred fifty million dollars of the set aside for them I have to tell you I do not know specifically for Pulaski County where that stands but I know our conversations were had earlier this week that that was a potential opportunity for funding source and that's that's as much as I know at this time I know it has been much discussed and and interest because there certainly has been impact two two Simmons arena. But the latest I was aware of was discussion around the cities towns and counties funding. Okay working within the for the neighboring why we chose to leave them out of this program is specifically since the main. They're in the sign in if it's in the same. While the law will chose to leave them out. There is in the rule there is an exclusion for governmental and because I governmental organizations in really that has to do with some of the other of finding a revenue streams that they have if they're able to receive you know money through taxes or some other stream of funding that we felt that differentiated them from some of these other private sector businesses particularly the small businesses there is a cap in the rule were looking businesses with two hundred fifty or fewer employees were really trying to target the money as much as we can to those those entities within the industry and like wise as we have discussed in prepare the rule it was our understanding from other conversations that going on around the city's counting counties money that because of relationships that are there with those governmental entities or with those governments. In this they were gonna be eligible to receive funding through those so that was collectively that is how we landed with the proposal you have before you okay. Thank you senator Chesterfield you're recognized thank you madam chair and good afternoon the and thank you Mr this can for answering those questions that I had for you earlier one comes quickly to mind how does one define hospitality but that include charges that provide food for the hungry are they in this but they be and this makes a what they be excluded. As we look at the hospitality industry. That's one of the gatt I just thought of this morning is at issue John asked as the of that earlier would they be precluded from this money are included. I don't see any I don't see where they're precluded so I just want to transaction ask how is hospitality define. Because there are people who provides hospitality the churches for instance provide that hospitality that those who are hungry of that kind of thing we including the amended or non profits excluded from this. I think the organization that you're talking about it would depend on the nature the as you said and you know nonprofit and what the nature of the entity is and what their kind of mission and purpose of the organization would be one of the items it's going to be in the application and is listed as a point of information is requested are there's a north American industry classification system it's a Essentially Groups different businesses entities by what they are and there are. Businesses that are considered to be hospitality industry In the hospitality industry that will show up on that list and one of the things we're going to ask these organizations is to identify what their you know how they're classified what kind of organization they are and that was one way that the applicant will be able to to share with us what what they Can with the purposes I don't know that we define hospitality within this rule but I think perhaps you should. Because when you're talking about hospitality a number of it entities are hospitable. But the definition of hospitality is is lacking and I think we need to better do that I don't want to exclude anybody unnecessarily but I think it is important because we're talking I think a feeding people I think about bring into me and so that they are able to recreate etcetera and sometimes churches due to do reach that definition but we need to be clear to them it seems to me a that you either in it or you're not because I don't want charges to apply it they're not but I don't want them not to apply if they can if they are providing those services the other piece is as you roll out the the program and you make people aware one of the things is usually missing is outreach to the black community and there is black radio available and there are those who have marketing skills that are directed toward the African American community I would appreciate it if you would work with me and I'm happy to work with you to make sure that that industry that that group of individuals and Hispanic radio because too many times they're left out of this conversation simply because of a lack of communication that is specifically directed to them and we don't have a a Hispanic out reach or black out reach than those individuals are those businesses will not be served by this grant and so I would ask that you keep that in mind as you go for it and as I said I'm more than happy to work with you and discuss that with you thank you thank you madam chair. Thank you I know that you're using the codes The in a I see correct codes and identified the IT industries and from my understanding this program is supposed to be really targeted to those businesses that the government ordered to shut down and so that this is a very targeted type of a program where as the ready for business program was not really that targeted and so you had the ability the ability for nonprofit send except right to really take advantage of that program which was a funded to the tune of one hundred and thirty seven million dollars I believe so that this is more of a targeted based on data that we can have that we have data of sales tax is so that we know and we can see exactly that these people really really suffered yes businesses is that correct that's correct you know there and the language and here is the there are primary focus is with and personal care tourism travel recreation how and hospitality and related industries and I we appreciate center Chesterfield comment on defining hospitality but the not so with the the connection with the N. A. I. see codes will help determine that that is the business is focused as well as within this industry I thought I would I would assume that that probably if if you're targeting the this grant program for those businesses using those codes then perhaps non profits and churches would not be a part of this program but I think you do need to seek clarification on that publicly thank you and all right Senator hammer thank you Mr chair I'm I'm sorry I missed it one is the one once the grant application time table going to be view now set yet. We are targeting opening the application on November sixteenth we intend to leave it open for ten days would run through November twenty fifth once we get hopefully get everything approved and ready to go through tomorrow's meeting then we will in earnest get to work on getting the online application portal set up in the kind infrastructure ready to receive these applications and use that period of time to promote and make businesses across state is aware of this this program this opportunity okay I'm looking at page six of the hand that we received. Application. We're grant funds point number five says the online application partials with business are authorized far finance to release those records for review for the purpose of application who's going to be in charge of reviewing the ocean will your staff in your department have access to those tax records will be just limited to DFA. For those records it will be through DFA that's A big part of the reason why we have partnered with them in this effort that and as well as the Work they've done on the city's county cities towns and counties a similar portal similar approach they've done but in terms of the sales tax data that will be that will come from DFA and their staff okay and then down to number D. and I just wanna make sure I understand this the right there at the end says such amounts must be deducted from the applicant's claim that they've already got money from somewhere else like the plan for two or fifty thousand but they got fifty thousand from you know start business back or whatever was called they're gonna have take that let fifty thousand be deducted from that so they're not out would be two hundred thousand. Yes Sir there's an option for a supplemental funding but they need to report with they've already received in it will be deducted from those expenses right and then they're going to be eligible or it can be limited to strictly limited to on reimbursed amount shot I guess was trying get my mind around at this this grant is for reimbursement of expenses already paid out. Yes if it would be expenses they have already paid for there is a provision in certain instances where they have an agreement such is potentially like a franchise fee or something like that where they have made an agreement with the company that they franchise with We believe those you know that they have encouraged those expenses have not paid those because of some other agreement that's in place for how they handle those but otherwise it is expenses that are they've already paid out. Okay and the list that's on the back of the hand out. Is it is this the These are the items that they're gonna be limited to being able to make application for her my mission interpreting that. Result. This the bullet point list exhibit a on the back yes Sir okay those are the items that were identified by the cares acts during committee as presumes for PP purchases and some of those is being reimbursable but there are other expenses they may have related to meeting requirements or other mitigation measures they take they would be eligible to receive reimbursement this is included really is a for a lot of that kind of core PP items that we know people have been purchasing that was the intent with that but other things that may have to be done installed in the restaurant or something like that would like was be eligible. Okay page four C. H.. Senator hammer one follow up comment to Caleb with reference to the PP on page four the capital a when it says eligible expenses covered personal protective equipment this thought exhibit is really just a reference for that subsection a only just to give them the list of what's already been pre approved and then all the other items that can be reimbursed utility expenses and everything are listed over and I'm subsection B. and C.. Okay and on the thank you on C. H. remarketing the resumption activities and steps taken to ensure safe experienced is that going to require an approval plan from the department of health or of who's gonna be the determiner of. That they have taken those steps because I know a lot of activities require prior approval from the health department if you're going to get this done in the short time frame you got it to do and I'm just. Wondering who's who's going to be the keeper of that determination. The first for those expenses on the re marketing resumption Number look lowercase H. those expenses have already been anchored so these what they're gonna provide as the documentation to us to the grant they will upload up a picture for a PDF of a receipt or employees that they paid for those FOR remarketing and resumption of activities okay thank you the manager thank you thank you and I'm payroll costs and expenses is there a cap on those like there was on the PPP program. In other words you know I don't I'm not real interested in pain path payroll for someone who is the CEO make an three hundred thousand dollars or something. Well overall for each applicant there's a cap of two hundred fifty thousand dollars we did not specify specific to the payroll costs and expenses but given our anticipated no in the range of businesses that have been impacted in the large number of those that are out there we had established in the rule two hundred fifty thousand dollar cap in so we think with all these other eligible expenses There's gonna be other costs that they have encouraged that we think will The instance you mentioned I think the cap would limit that but also I anticipate they would have other expenses that they would be seeking reimbursement for. Okay well I I I appreciate that answer I I think it could it does look concerned that part probably does concern me a little bit just because they were you know you can take you can only take up to a certain amount of money in the PPP program you couldn't. You can cover the full amount of somebody salary with that program so I would really really make sure you all look closely at that because I think you should follow that same guidance that was done and not You know that the members I will just tell you the frustrating thing I think this is a good program I supported it I appreciated the frustrating thing from my standpoint on the carriers committee steering task force is that we've had so many different programs for people and really unfortunately it hasn't been fair across the board and the reason I say that is early on you know we were told well you can use it for this expense and then kind of guidance changed either federal guidance changed or we interpreted things differently that has nothing to do with you all I'm just talking about from our perspective because you know under like for instance the hospital proposal that the hospitals we did for the hospitals they could not to use that money for certain things that's perhaps listed in here so. You know I just that's just the frustrations this the reality it has nothing to do with you all at all but it's just it's just the way it is some kind of the way of that played out on unfortunately in but I do I do very much appreciate your really that work on that on this program I have one last question is Representative Murdock. Thank you will be here. So on on eligible expenses if you look under city. Payroll costs and expenses and if this is a business that has been shut down that was mandate to be shut down so how would wish to what payroll costs expenses but they have a they were sure that. It would be real reasonable it was saying you know what I know you know there the Senate did not paying for lost. Los profit and loss things that you know but if you're in the hospitality and and some of this type of business what you did is you lost because you could not do or before so therefore payroll costs and expenses you know I would be able to do that could you show me that. Well at I appreciate appreciate that question in your right did their the impact two different businesses and how they experience to that. One one reason that we have so many categories for expenses is that the depending on how many employees they have and what their payroll costs were and if they were the peer to time they were closed that's the reason we sought to make multiple options you know you know rent is included in there franchise fees I mentioned earlier utilities other telephone internet other services like that there were things that they many of these businesses had to continue to pay even if they you know their payroll decrease significantly the other thing that I will mention I I I think I failed to mention earlier is that the applicable period for this is March first through September thirtieth and recognizing that there were windows of time this in these businesses were required to be close but others if others operated in in many of those that re opened have continued to operate perhaps reduce capacity capturing some of that and and some of what I think you're getting out of your question having wider window to reflect where there's been ongoing impacts from co that even if they've they have resumed activities or incurred cost to re opened may perhaps the being close I know the the folks who were in here previously talked about digital cost for cleaning supplies and in some of those things those are some of the cost we intend to capture the so our hope is that with the number of types of those will expenses. We can capture that and then we can provide some support some relief in those instances where as you mention perhaps on payroll or others there is of a different sort of impact for a follow the nature quick to. Yes go ahead quickly I'm gonna get to doctor bill had because I will be here at I'll see tomorrow as well go ahead okay transportation costs real quick what will give an example what you mean by that. Or what you don't me. See. I think for transportation because I think some of the also includes like within some of these industries some like for example some restaurant started their own delivery service so they paid for gas for those cars or maybe you know that they've there are providing they also pay fees to some of these delivery services whether it's you know it were eats or things like that and prior to cove in nineteen that was not that wasn't a service that they offered to have any of their food delivered so that's an example of transportation costs. Okay thank you madam chair out we to tomorrow okay thank you Senator hammer can we wait till tomorrow you. Quick question okay and last one and then I may have talked to like go that thanks very much I would like to know if you know how many P. how many industries to file bankruptcy in the point is on hi we're precluding people who have filed bankruptcy different kind of bankruptcy such as reorganization of businesses been shut down by government which is forced amend bankruptcy do we really want to limit them from being able to apply if it would help them get back up and out of bankruptcy status and you are prepared to answer for tomorrow that be fine or we'll talk off line thank you thank you all right with that thank you all very much for coming before us we appreciate the preview and we feel special about thank you thank you for your hard work and diligence on this Representative Ladyman. Did you have. Well just thank you very much I know your secretary struggle with seven you'll hear I appreciate you coming thank you. Thank you with that doctor Delahaye will come up and wanted to get an update and also on the potential vaccines that I know we've heard some things in the news lately about some of the. Measures that are being taken some things had to be put on hold for safety reasons But it's. and we also had a reversal by the World Health Organization lockdowns photo and we're just going to recognize you feel state your name for the record and then will recognize the both for comments and the updates thank you. A good afternoon I'm doctor Jennifer Delahaye state epidemiologist for the Arkansas department of health. Health. Well as you know we are seeing an increase in cases in Arkansas we have had over ninety thousand a confirmed cases and five thousand probable cases so that's over ninety five thousand cases of covert nineteen Arkansas right now we have about eight thousand active cases and we've had over sixteen hundred deaths along with these high number of cases were saying a high number of hospitalizations as of yesterday there were five hundred and eighty seven people in the hospital and the total of people who've ever been hospitalized in Arkansas related to cope it nineteen is six over sixty one hundred so of concern at this the increasing trend of cases and deaths and hospitalizations course we're all of wondering how long it will take the vaccines to get here. one of the issues of course is with cope with a corona virus is that would appear that we do not develop lasting immunity add to this virus we know that for other coronaviruses that calls the common cold we do not develop lasting immunity and there are now beginning to appear reports in the medical literature of situations where it would appear that people have been infected a second time with a different covert nineteen a strain so we do look forward to at a corona viruses vaccines in the future. In order to talk about the vaccine I thought I would just take a moment to just briefly review how A of virus infects the cell and makes a sick so the corona virus has on that surface a protein called a spike protein in its able to hook up with a protein on the receptor many cells called an ace to protein when it does that it makes it it's able to enter the cell and the virus uses its genetic material to hijack the cells protein making machinery to make A proteins for the virus and said of the proteins for the cell. In that way it's able to multiply itself with in the cell and then exit the cell. When the viruses outside of the cell there's certain white cells that will find the virus and in golf it and to its proteins into little pieces and it puts those little pieces of proteins on its surface as a way of introducing this protein is not supposed to be there to the rest of the immune system and that's how the immune system is triggered that there's of A infection and different elements of the immune system kick in the action such is antibodies are made or certain T. cells go and kill the infected cells so that's how we're able to clear the virus the eventually when we overcome it if it hasn't done so much damage that were not able to survive it and so there's different strategies for making vaccines that Use different. Phases of that process of a sale injuring at of a virus entering a sale copying itself and then exiting a cell. And I'll talk about that in a moment but before I do I also want to talk about the process for vaccine development so when we have a good vaccine candidate it it we your of. There's a process of going through clinical trials testing for the vaccine. It's usually phase one phase two and phase three. Phase one is after the Vaccine developer feels like they have a good candidate it's gone through animal studies and there's other things that would lead you to think it had would be safe and we're fortunate with the a virus that causes a copious nineteen that similar work had already bead been done with the sars viruses and previous corona viruses that had call serious illness so there's a lot of the preliminary work that had been done and they were ready to get started when Kobe nineteen hit. So phase one trials and usually a small number of people who received the vaccine and the purpose of that is just to determine that it's safe to give people the vaccine. If that goes well then usually face to would be again and that's a smaller number of people of who received the vaccine to see does it actually work is it effective if that goes well then phase three trials are started and those are larger numbers that people usually a thirty thousand people or more and they're watching and comparing it with people who got a placebo versus people to a got the vaccine they're monitoring for side effects and also how well does it work because there's plenty of funding available for many of the vaccine developers they're able to progress rapidly in combined phase two and three because the finances are there to be able to do so. And then once the a phase three trials are completed the a data from the trials are a submitted to the food and drug administration and its evaluated to see if it's truly safe and effective and then it would receive some sort of approval. A at that point usually the vaccine manufacturers once they get approval will ramp up their manufacturing and make a sufficient doses to sell to the public that takes time and if any of you receive the recent shingles vaccine that came out you may recall that for why you couldn't get it there wasn't enough of it because it takes time for the vaccine manufacturers to ramp up so in the case of the corona virus of vaccines the Copa nineteen vaccines. I'm funding has been made available for the manufacturers to go ahead and ramp up now even though the trials have not been completed so that if they are shown to be safe and effective then the vaccine can be made available immediately if the vaccine is not approved for use all of those doses will be discarded so you can see that there's quite a bit of risk there. So that's one of the differences and that's how we're at in the US working to make the vaccines available more quickly they are not a cutting corners on the safety and efficacy studies but they are doing things in advance are simultaneously whereas in the past they would have done amend sequential order because that the financial risk involved. So in the US right now currently we have about thirty vaccines candidates that are in phase one trials of fifteen that are in phase two trials and eleven that are in phase three trials there haven't been any vaccines yet in the US that have been approved there's different strategies for using vaccines in the US and I think I misspoke just now I said they were A eleven in phase three that's around the world there's just five that I'm aware of that in phase three and the US. A. Two of them are what we call our in A vaccines and what these vaccines do when you get the shot they inject the genetic code for that spike protein on the virus into your arm and it goes into the cells in the cells make that protein in the sense the cells manufacture their own backs scene and then the means system picks up on that one the. The protein and learns to recognize it and fight it. Out one of these A are in a vaccines is called moderno. And it began its phase three trial and July a with the goal of an recruiting a thirty thousand a healthy people in eighty nine sites in the US and I understand that we do have sites here in Arkansas that are involved and and then this vaccine will be a little challenging if it is approved because it will need to two doses of so we'll have to track that and it will need to be frozen but we do use frozen vaccine such as the vaccine for measles and chickenpox so we have the capacity to handle that. And there is another are in a vaccine that's being made by a pharmaceutical company named Pfizer and it is being studied and volunteers and US Argentina Brazil and Germany and they plan to expand their moment in the US to forty three thousand people and they are in the trials now so they're hoping that they'll have some indication whether the vaccine is effective in the very near future. It requires two doses twenty one days apart in this one but it could be a little logistically more difficult because it requires storage at minus seventy degrees Celsius and we do not have those types of freezers in most locations where we give vaccinations so we would have to have capacity for what they call ultra low cold storage which will required to rice dry ice is also it minus seventy degrees so those will require special planning and consideration for at a at a maintaining the cold chain and as giving the vaccine. There's two other virus and vaccines that are in phase three trials and both of them are actually other viruses that provoke immune response but they don't calls disease and what they have done is inserted the genetic code for the spike protein on the corona virus into these viruses so when you get infected with them a. Each the immune system to recognize that spike protein one of them is of being made by Johnson and Johnson and they have caused that phase three trial to take time to understand whether or not one of the participants who has an unexplained illness whether it's calls by the the vaccine or something else. This if it was approved would be an advantage because there's only one dose and it would be referred to raid. I'm and then another one is by the Oxford the it's called the OPC Oxford vaccine it's made by AstraZeneca it is a similar the virus where they've inserted the. Code to make the spike protein on that surface so that teaches the means system to recognize it and it calls for safety reasons to see if a participant who experienced an adverse response whether was caused by the vaccine or something else and it has resumed A in all other places except the US were that FDA is taking a very close look at the results of the studies and the safety data. And then the fifth of vaccine is just simply a protein that's given in a certain way to stimulate the immune system to recognize the spike protein and it and. Is in phase three trial in the United Kingdom and they will be in rolling people who are older to see because course we want the vaccine to be effective in older but we know are geriatric population typically does not respond well to vaccines because as we get older immune systems Wayne so we are hopeful that this vaccine will be effective in that large population phase three will launch in the US this month for that particular vaccines and Nova Max vaccine and the goal is for all of these vaccines if approved to have doses available in early twenty twenty one or and at least at perhaps by the spring thirty Delahaye college as amended turn it over to represent Ladyman but before I do I just wanted to Ask you quickly on the the total cases with ninety five thousand is that correct right now. So does does the sixteen hundreds of the death rate. I have the as are we tracking the death rate as well and calculating that posts percentage yes I don't have that with me and we can provide that no I just did it point zero one six eight percent as where. one point six anyway okay I did that okay I just wanted to make sure my numbers were correct I'm gonna turn it over to him all right and thank you for the information provided my and my main is my main purpose of getting this vaccine update which I very much appreciate all the level of detail that you provided because things really important for us to to understand is are we prepared as a state for whatever back thing comes our way are we prepared to get it out the door an advertised I mean are we Vietnam ready to be able to pull the trigger and say here it is and how we're going to distribute to people as quickly as possible and that's the first question my second question is Is really is there any power ready because. I'll be honest with you I love football just like everybody else in the world okay but it aggravates me to no end that our players and our coaches are getting tested every single day when I have doctors and nurses and people that work as janitors and hospitals wars receptionist in hospitals for. You know. However in a hospital or a clinic unable to do that they're not able to get tested every single day. And it's it's really. It's really aggravating me. So you know this is these folks that are treating these people. Are really being treated like second hand citizens they really are and I know that you released or the governor did I I distribution list of the point of care testing. Equipment and so are those can be PA or ties for our health care workers. So The Arkansas department of health has been working very closely to develop a state backs nation plan which is actually due tomorrow to the CDC we received a template and more following the template and there's a number of considerations and there's many as you may I guess some unknowns and processes that we need to work out so what we will be submitting Tamara is more of a plan to plan what we need to develop in terms of processes and priorities and so forth. To develop the plan we have an internal working group at the health department as well as an external working group with many partners and we're still recruiting external partners we meet weekly at to provide updates and to solve problems and to Decide next steps and so forth. I'm. Part of the process of course will be prioritization because whenever a vaccine is available in the beginning we won't have all the doses we would like to have so we will have to have priorities there are two a national groups that are the. Have Part of the responsibility for setting the priorities for the country one of them is the national academies in medicine and they just recently finalized their document for consideration for priority groups the second is the advisory committee for immunization practices that advises the CDC and it will not have final recommendation for priority groups Intel we know which vaccine it was we'll be approved and available and what their characteristics are which populations they are most effective in and what are the a safety what is the safety profile on these so we have to prepare in a sense with a contingency plans because when that comes out that's not the time to start planning right so we anticipate that we will want to prioritize according to the Frame of reference that we've been given by the CDC persons who are most likely to be infected which would be health care workers at and then also persons who are more likely to have severe disease if in fact that often times that as people who have chronic illness or those who were older. It's important to note that these vaccine trials are including just adults right now so any vaccine that will be approved will be available just for adults although a I learned that the Pfizer vaccine had gotten approval to start including children down to the age of twelve that will take some time before we have the safety data as a result of those we we you point of care testing can you do with the distribution of those around the state do you have that. I don't have that with me I know that there is some of the plan for the recently made available abit ID now in the I'm sorry so ID now it's been acts now and that is a little tricky because the test is really developed as a diagnostic test and yet we would like to use it as a screening test so we'll have to be very careful about that because how it works for screening will not okay as well as how it went for diagnostic okay understood but again where are they going to do you have a list of where they're going to and who are going to I do not have the a specific list I know that the priorities are of four the K. through twelve for school district staff and Date we don't have enough to do all school district so we would do the school districts where they have the highest spread and then there's a department of corrections for the facility staff the visitor's the people most likely to bring the virus in if they have it in that spot recognized and and then the those inmates in the correctional facilities to go out like work release that public facing jobs and then department of Human Services A they have some human development centers a juvenile treatment centers and so forth because if you're going to use this for several testing you need to do the same population again and again not just Test people in general to see do they have it. okay so they're not going out to health care people. Not a for the amounts that we have of course people who work in health care they can get a PCR testing which is actually much more accurate than this the of diagnostic tests are experience so far has been if you use these and engine point of care testing for screening you're more likely to get a false positive. And then you could exclude people so it could be actually more disruptive and some of the point of care tests that have been used in nursing homes and other states have found that the false positive rate was unacceptable and that is why we are not using some of the appointed care machines in our nursing homes but rather were doing a rapid of. Result PC ours we have that worked out a system or they can send that PCR swabs in and get a rapid turnaround at the health department okay we're we be able to get your plan that you're going to submit we certainly to the public health committee have a great yeah I'll be glad to come back and walk through it or answer questions give you all a chance to review it feel to Senate to staff to Mr price and then we can send it out to members of the committee I think that would be important for us to have if you're submitting that tomorrow and any additional information you can that be great thank you so much I'm gonna turn this over to represent Ladyman to it for the other members of the committee to ask you questions thank you. Okay Senator hammer you're recognized for a question. Thank you Mr chair of read a question when I ask on behalf of Representative Ferguson who's watching wanna masses question. It is my understanding that these companies start getting paid when they're given emergency use authorization and before full FDA trials are complete. Are you concerned that this will rush vaccines to the market to quickly. A my understanding is that they will complete the safety and efficacy trials and I am not a concern I would take those vaccines myself if they received the emergency out use authorization K. Cup fall Mr yes recognized also from. Represent first and is a the anti vaccine individuals will you thank you will create a sense of of a. A false narrative if there's a power if there's a problem with any of those trials that are coming out or you don't you don't give we're not going to give any vaccine experimental or anything in the state until FDA has approved and signed off on it and the advisory committee for immunization practices is also recommended. Okay. Then and this is my question I've got some of pharmacists that have actually purchased the seventy below freezers and so the the private industry is gearing up to be the recipients once you know they get in the pipelines the end up you might mention amended to go but one would you be prepared to say what the plan is for the department of health as far as how those are going to be distributed out and if you know because if individuals are binders high dollar freezers you know we certainly. Want to be able to up recognize that so are you at liberty to discuss that are you still developing that plan. I'm part of it's being developed I can tell you that this state will receive a certain allocation of vaccine whatever vaccines available at based on population and the health department will be responsible for managing that about allocation and filling orders according to a the Population those provider service so that it may be that initially it might go to say just to add those that would vaccinate health care workers and so forth and. But. We will handle the ordering process but vaccines will be shipped directly from the manufacturer in the case of the old for low cold vaccine and special coolers and but the other rex scenes will be shipped directly from the warehouse where they're being kept to the vaccinate or it won't come through the health department A there's a big push to include pharmacies the we know that the CDC the federal government is partnering with some of the national pharmacy chains to ship directly to them and they distribute to their locations and and then there course shipping directly to other like the VA and some of their the the federal correctional facilities and so forth. And and that was a concern expressed doctor mayor when he was in here before the end of he was supportive of the fact that I really hate for Washington DC to be telling us is Arkansas how to distribute those drugs yes and let me add to that we do have a special committees set up a we have a vaccine medical advisory committee that's been in existence for about fifteen years and we have a subcommittee of medical specialist who and and that this is to take the federal guidance and then apply it to Arkansas. Because there would be areas in Arkansas where the big stores and may have a win back to Mike. County my town I don't think the big ones have it but the little ones do so I would hate for something to add I just wish you would keep that at the forefront of discussion you know the role part of Arkansas may be better equipped and then the big ones thank you Mr. Representative Bentley you're recognized. The chairman thank you doctor bill have come here they appreciated a bunch on. House what age at this current time can you give us an estimate of a time frame you might think of action you have any idea at all the time frame well I know that some of the ones that are doing the phase three trials are still in rolling and they have to wait a period of time to see if people are infected or not and then they have to do an analysis so I would think about spring time okay can I have a couple questions chairman is that a yes okay so Dr Chairman when I talked about the recover racialist if I look at your numbers of ninety five thousand current cases and we've had sixteen hundred this as a recovery rate about ninety nine point nine eight six percent of our recovery in Arkansas which which is good but I I I keep a picture my good friend Terry that passed away in August from co because I don't forget how very serious to say she survived breast cancer four years ago but unfortunately in August she she died of code so I keep Terri speaks with me to remember that this is a very very serious illness and even though it's only point zero two percent yes a very precious people so that being said she did not serve she survived cancer patients survive this so she's one this and municipal SR had a couple quick questions just when we're doing our contract tracing and when we're doing our testing do we get any debt or collect data from those folks for those comorbidities like diabetes hypertension previous cancer patients do we collect that data when we're testing or when we're doing contract tracing do we do that do that when we have cases they go through an interview process when a new person is diagnosed when we try to find out if they have co morbidities and a little bit about their history and so forth so we are checking that do we and I'm just asking because I don't know to the contract traces have any ability at all to tell those folks G. if you have a co morbidity you're much more likely to have a serious side effects and to get treatment early because as I feel like we're not some folks are being told to go home and take town only get real sick or the E. R. and and this happened I hear people still getting that that total to them go home if you get real sick go to the ER and so on like those people those committees to me it seems like a nurse we should really tell those folks if you have any type of symptoms get treatment early don't wait to really six I don't I'm just here's what the contract traces are telling folks or what they're being told those to the have a co morbidities that would make them more likely to get serious illness so I know. with the cases they make sure they know what to do and who to call and a. And then the Persons on current quarantine that are of. Contacts they get a rolled in the system and they're supposed to alert is if they start having any symptoms so then we can interact with them but I I don't know specifically we can look at this groups from what they're supposed to talim about encouraging to get early treatment if they have symptoms we could look at that I would just encourage it if we have for doing that we know that those people have some co morbidities like diabetes hypertension or a means the press that was specifically remind those folks you are at much higher risk of having serious side effects please get early treatment and one last question chairman of this okay. what are you thinking about Regeneron one with here about those antibodies coming out from that I was just doing some reading on that today because I'm I don't care what direction we get help almost to get some help for folks so what is your thoughts on that Regeneron those antibodies that they're they're coming out with that if you read on that yet and I'm not very familiar with that I thought it sounded hopeful just anything that can boost the immune system at the time whether it's what we call a monoclonal antibody no specific a high dose or perhaps convalescent plasma A some things that can help the person fight it because right now we're still at a loss for some really good treatments you know we're still studying that and learning about it so I'm. Think that a hopefully they will continue to study Regeneron and see if it is effective in a in a in a Broadway so we don't know but any studies going on Arkansas with that at all I'm not familiar with it but I might not know about them even if they were here okay thank you. Representative Johnson you're recognized. Thank you Mr chair so I heard you say something about the bond ex now I want to make sure I understand what you said I think what you said was that when using is a screening tool that has a high false positive rate not necessarily that when we don't know yet so at these a quick an engine tests were all designed as diagnostic tools to be used for people who have symptoms and we're doing it as a screening tool you're using it on people who don't have symptoms and so that's a population that we don't really have good data about how well it works in those populations and we have found that in some of the other and engine test of that the false positive. Tests were so problematic they weren't useful the by next now we are hoping that the false positive test will not be high the concern would be the false negative test and so the. And that's why it's important to you know use the same population that you're testing if you just screen general population in your to screening months you don't have a good way of telling if these people develop illness or not because there's no follow up with them okay I guess I was under the impression that that prior indigent tests had how false negative rate the false positive rate I do I thought the positive rate the I thought the positivity was actually pretty reliable and we've been told in this committee when the gas that if someone had a positive managing test you can be pretty six sure whether they were systematic or a symptomatic that they actually had the disease that the false positive rate was actually markedly low but the false negative rate was really hot I just wanna make sure I understood that it sounds like most people who are symptomatic the fall the false positive rate is not high we're concerned about the false negative so someone has symptoms and they have a negative and engine test. Then thank you needs to be followed up with the PCR tests to confirm that there truly negative vendors and you know when flu season comes might wanna also do some flu tests right. That in a symptomatic people I would think. There it I'm having trouble understanding why there would be a high false positive rate I understand why there might be a false negative rate because percentage of people are are asymptomatic that are negative but just may get just needs more clarification on that yeah I'm not surely what sure what the source the false what causes a false positive other than the fact that it can perhaps interact with other things that result in a. A false positive test but when the for instance the BT verre tore tests have been used in nursing homes. The false positivity rate was just very problematic. Thank you. The who's in cedar eighty of. Representative Gonzalez you're recognized. Thank Mister so the false positive rate. Concerns me are we are we counting those as positives that one reason that Arkansas. Is showing so many more positive cases because we're getting those false positives are the Senate intestines and no they would not automatically be counted as a positive Case a. In it but it could it's possible that it could be but these. It's. The engine test or not the bulk of the tests that were doing in Arkansas most of our testing is still PC are. So or the antigen test the test that we're using for our athletes that to test them daily to decide whether they can or cannot play so my understanding for example the Southeastern Conference do this two PCR test twice a week and then they get in an engine test the night before they play in the reason for that is you can get a quick turn around and the result. Yes I understand that but the problem with that is what you just stated high rate of false positives. Well and then they would have to follow up with the PCR test in the order they would have to make some kind of a decision but that's part of their strategy and they're aware of that. Yes okay I just I just see that as being usually problematic if for that that's what we use and to say yes you have covered nineteen and no you don't and then if if that's the only test that they're getting and I guess turned into the health department we calls contact tracing and you'll other other contacts of them to stay home for two weeks yet that's yes so probably the screening test a. With a positive then. I think it would be prudent to go ahead and do a PCR test. Agree with that but I don't know that that's actually what's going on out there so I think you're correct about that. Seeing no further questions doctor delay thank you for all that information is very interesting and the vaccine is on all of our minds obviously so we'll have you back to summarize that also met thank you for being knowledge you football question later. Thank you all.