ALC-Occupational Licensing Review Subcommittee

Everybody will take their seats will go ahead and get started come morning. Was. Alright good morning everybody. Right this call this am subcommittee to order and I know that to my coach here is unable to be here I think he's got court this week but I appreciate the work that he is done with me on this committee Going to items see I do not see we have some recommendations but they're made by Representative Dotson who is not here at this time is there somebody that's gotten going to make those recommendations on his behalf if not we'll pass over that for the next meeting all right moving on to item D. review of reports from occupational authorization entities number one first up we have the engineering section for the Arkansas department of health so if you will come to the table we will go through these license. State your name for the record and then place for state thank you madam chair on large you I'm general counsel for the department of health and I have here with me Jeff Stein who is the director of the engineering section and Martin that is available if there's any questions on specifics on our water treatment operators we presented a report as to both the distribution operator and the treatment operator licenses there are approximately two thousand two hundred seventy five individual operators holding licenses they hold approximately three thousand two hundred seventy nine active licenses and many operator's holds both a treatment license and a distribution license and we are here to answer any questions. And so on the fees that are listed. Where did those they're collected out the department of health is that correct and then how are those utilized. They're utilized within our drinking water program for to fund our operations the fees that we collect are not. Very much compared to the expense of running the program but the program is supported largely by federal money that is provided for drinking water by EPA as well as the public water service fees collected from utility so these fees have remained unchanged for decades and and the program is supported by those other maint. Now is there any entity outside of the department of health that they go through for their education purposes of the examination. Yes Both Arkansas rule water provides classroom type training to meet the training requirements the Arkansas environmental training academy provides that same type of training they have two choices there and they also have choices throughout the year different locations that that's been impacted course by the pandemic but that still viable and then lastly if they chose to there would be online and correspondence course time worked it can make up for a portion of that also okay and is there any continuing education type professional development for water treatment operators are license engineers yes every two years they have to show that they have attained twenty four hours of continuing education one hour per month if you pro rated it that way the vast majority of your license water operators obtain that training through attendance at either the Arkansas rule waters state conference that's held every year as well as another option would be the Arkansas water works and water wastewater environment association which is the the tap the main conference each year for all raw water operators can attend and and get that require continuing education. And are these fees paid by the individual or perhaps are some of them in some cases paid by the water department consult them the majority of them are are probably paid by the individual although the utilities are free to support their water operators in that way and some do seven utilities also are proactive in offering increased wage rates if the a complete higher grades I thank you Representative Cozart you're recognized. Thank you madam chair since I see that this is all public water systems I take it there's probably know enforcement needed to regulate these entities on this so if it's it's a necessity do they have to have this is that correct. it is so requirements of federal law that the the utility have a licensed operators making the decision making at utility there is enforcement behind that is a utility did not comply with federal law are there fines and fees for that if they're caught not operated with the proper license or something of that sort there's first of all a hearing held by the subcommittee of the board of health to hear the matter and that's only after a long process where consent agreements are offered and and a lot of work stand to try to head that off but and then it's recommend the board of health and then the board of health in very ability will respond but issuing an order which gives them a certain time frame to come into compliance and usually. if the if done of the other previous work has resulted and and compliance a trip to the board of health usually does it so there's been extremely rare cases where we've Cole elected fees are fine I'm sorry thank you thank you madam chair. You're welcome thank you senator Ingram. Of I'm it I know in the delta one of the real problems is a lot of the Of operators are getting older and retiring and the younger people we we we're having a hard time finding licensed operators I guess is the thing and I would assume that's probably similar across the state we're just a licensing all we're doing here is just licensing we're not advocating or of pushing for any additional of individuals to gain their licenses everything we get is through the the water system itself correct. There's no program that's encouraging people to of be be a licensed operator no Sir not other than the privilege of holding the John yeah it is the it's a real I mean we've got a real problem that they're very valuable people you know now you've got there are such a limited supply of them in the delta you have of of utilities hiring. From you know from each other cannibalizing each other if there is somebody that's a license water operator there's two points there the that I think are important first of all for quite some time now whenever I ask. About this or or certainly when a mass by EPA about our program I've indicated that the number one challenge or drinking water program is to decrease and population that's occurring and many of our counties because it makes less of a labor pool available for hiring like that but also on the bright side if the individual municipalities cooperate together then several utilities can hire one person that looks over several small systems because when you get into these areas where well water is extremely plentiful you run into a lot of very small rural communities that have basically a well in a tank. And they do not necessarily need a full time person and so if that were coordinated or cooperated in some way on a county regional per basis there's there's a there's unexploited opportunity there for a for a lot of these areas you've got some areas is represent rocket daisy over nation Arkansas when the Mississippi river's up you get water with a shovel so. Thank you. Thank you senator Ingram just to follow up on on yours yours what you're saying. That's something that the legislature probably acts we should try to adopt more into as our water systems and making sure our infrastructure is solid and I think we need to have a little bit more robust interaction out there to support that because I can tell you from my area we currently have the National Guard hauling water in to one of my towns because the the water the well went dry and that's off topic here a little bit but it goes to what senator Ingram is talking and discussing is the lack of expertise that's out there and the lack of infrastructure and when those wells run dry and citizens are calling because nothing's coming on when they turn on the faucet it's a real problem so anyway I think I think more work probably should be tomorrow legislature thank you senator Ingram for your questions. I have represented Burch not sure who's in that state. it is represent part okay. Hear me now yes thank you military thank you but thank you for the information and and kind of learn a little bit as we care more about your your. John spit also touching on basically the last three speakers I question is do we have any requirements with regard to population or municipality your area for licensed engineers or is just. By a. Need a request. Of the system requires that as a Water system service more people and and invariably also becomes more complicated and its treatment and operations that the level of licensure required increases their required to know more. The licensing law also indicates that in our regulations that the people that should be licensed are the ones that can make meaningful decisions that affect the water quality that people use so if you have back to rule Arkansas a small system with well in a tank one person licensed is fine however when you get to some of our larger utilities you see more extensive licensing throughout that utility because they have people put in responsible positions that make meaningful decisions about water quality so that's the way the system more to the subject of call and you enforce that through your inspections. We will during our inspections ask about the extent of licensure and some of our inspections of it's a complicated utility we might ask for an organizational chart and so We tend to hold off formal enforcement for those systems that have no licensed operator but in the other cases if we see that may be they're not extensively enough license we might comment on that through inspections and asked them to take a look at it and either either re and redo their job assignments are or push licensure further so we can enforce that we typically work with utility to make sure it's adequately license through the ranks of those findings publicly accessible the H. water system is required to have their inspection reports on file for the public any interested party can request that from us and we'll give them a copy and we were we regularly get requests in that way. It's not a report. Specific to licensure it's an inspection report that includes loss injury issues from overall the system one more question madam chair. Thank you from for most upon just wondering who I would ask because again some of the rural areas that are so spread out maybe there's some overlapping areas so how do I know is that a citizen who to request that kind of report for to know whether I might have a concern based on your inspection about the management of that water system well any service and first of all could contact their water utility and ask them for a copy and they would of course know who their watery utility is and know who to ask if the A had internet access or called the health department's main number and ask about drinking water that enquiring would be routed to us and we would be able to respond to it and so I think that with just a little bit Questioning they would get to the right place and could get a copy of that. Thank you. Thank you Representative rye. Thank you Mr chairman certainly issue this. In this county relating to what senator Ingram we're speaking about earlier. Let's just say that you have a place like Booker place lack Jericho something like that in Crittenden county this small community and you have something like maybe but black oak will be places like that that are getting smaller all the time love the spoke from moving into the west Memphis or in John for all that. And they cannot afford to pay the water bill because less people are there to pay it what do you do if they they cannot maintained what what do you the situation and that's and that's a very significant challenge and many of these areas and while we in our health department role do not get a and to their water rates or what they charge we never the less asked them to do what's necessary to get at least part time the top of licensed operator assistance they need so for We've had pretty much pretty good success In being effective and that way we nine have probably. Eight hundred or so water systems that require some sort a licensed operator in at any given time. Point time we might have six or eight that were working with us to address the issues so One percent or less signed under most circumstances. Thank you one last question on page two when you say when the fee is examination that says twenty five dollars hourly how many hours is that examination and what with that total cost be. Martin I'm gonna ask the under the water treatment operator licensure I just. That's because it's twenty five all of. It's a typo it's five dollars per exam okay all righty. Okay no problem so it's a one time fee. each time they take an exam okay alright thank you are there any other questions seeing none thank you so much. Right. Next we have the Arkansas state board of physical therapy. And if there are folks here from the Arkansas state board for of professional soil classifiers if you're here we are going to by pass those recommendations so you don't need to stay for this meeting. Thank you I apologize I thought that Representative would be here but we'll contact you for the next meeting thank you. If you lose yourself for the record you may proceed. I'm Nancy within the director of the physical therapy board. Thank you madam chair Matt Gilmour part of health. Thank you. Thank. The physical therapy boards have began and nineteen ninety one licensing physical therapists and physical therapist assistants prior to that they were licensed by the medical board. we currently have one thousand two thousand three hundred sixty five active PT licenses and one thousand six hundred twenty five PTA licenses just we have been through a few changes in the last year we currently revise our rules that just went into effect August fourteenth to comply with the act several with the twenty nineteen acts are we also recently joined a physical therapy compact that allows it up PT's that work in different states and allows them beyond a little easier transition and we recently began requiring fingerprint background checks. So I will be happy to take questions okay so on page three so where it says the active military service member with that now be a yes based on your rule changes. With that be what I'm sorry you said that the that you had some recent rule changes server sent that caught up from the previous acts that were passed during the previous legislative session so. we you have answered no there but with that now be a yes we do expedited license for military. Okay yes. Madam chair it should be a quicker process it is not automatic but it is the expedited process which was the other option that was presented in an act right okay. So that would be the same on page five thank. We also part of the new rule that just came into effect as of we offer temporary licenses for people coming from another state for reciprocity so. That would be kind of automatic for the military. Because we can issue that before we get the background check back okay alright. Representative Cozart you're recognized thank you madam chair page three of your fees and penalties I noticed your license for a rip process the is a hundred and sixty dollars ones that so expensive. I'm sorry it's been that way for more than I think from the very beginning we have not changed our licenses it's time to I think it. That's that's way too much that's what we're trying to do is to lessen the burden and that that's a pretty good at it I am just guessing on his answer but I believe when it when the board first started just meant they may have based their fees on other states are fees are actually a lot lower than other states something that alleges seems like that's quite a bit of money that's higher than any lessons we have you in the late the renewals only a hundred dollars but under sixty dollars is a pretty good fee for this so that's something you'll need to look at I think we'll probably be revisiting this madam chair I'm gonna put a little junction there so okay. Any other questions. I'm assuming you would be looking at the same on page five represent Cozart. One hundred and ten not anyway. That said PTA as. Says. I would assume if we lower the PT reciprocity would want to lower the. ET a reciprocity also. But. I mean I guess I guess my question would be. With they have the option of being able to just then take the exam again but I'm not sure how much the exam. Is there an additional. fee for the exam itself that's one thing yes so the exam itself is four hundred seventy dollars that's not through us that state right and shall right so I mean the licensing fees that we're looking at really gives us only just a snapshot of just the licensing you know the examinations that it that also are additional cost aren't really part of what we're looking at but it's something that we kinda also need to be thinking three so anyway thank you are there any other questions alright. All rights madam chair if I may ask one question they mention the compact how would that affect the reciprocity. And the compact is that we have a compact fee of fifty dollars so if they are say they're living in taxes and they also want to cross the border and work in Arkansas then they wouldn't apply to reciprocity they could get a contact for fifty dollars through us of a pair compact TV to the compact commission but so that would be less but but that would be people they're not going to move here if they're going to move here then they can't do the compact. So that is less plus if they go through the compact they don't have to meet content as cation requirements for us they have to meet for their home state they also don't have to write in a renew they do that through the home state so the compact is helped I believe a lot specially those that are in a minute. On the border. In. Okay. You you might want to give us some and maybe looking at that to see how many are licensed through these various ways just to give us a little more information that might be helpful okay permanent right because we we don't eliminate people from being able to to get the license and work so sure alright thank you are there any other questions seeing none thank you so much thank you thank you all rights. And finally we have the feed and fertilizer division with the Arkansas state plant board if you will come to the table. Members also if you have any additional questions that you want us to ask you go out please go ahead and send those questions via email to miss airy and then we will for those to the different agencies or licensing entities if you need more information for the next meeting or to help you with your formulation of your recommendations alright thank you if you will introduce yourself for the record you may proceed. Thank you madam chair on weight height chief counsel for the department of agriculture have Scott Bray who is director of our plan industries a division and Mike stages the section manager for the programs are going to be reviewing today and they'll do most of the talking in answering your question stay Scott do you have an opening comments. yes thank you I. According to exhibit the three the first rule to discusses ACT consultants of the agricultural consultant ruled. We currently have a hundred and seventy three individuals license under that rule it. Runs from January one December thirty one and the license is in fee is one hundred dollars. The the short summary of of the license program is the definition of an agricultural consultant is anybody who provides advice or gives prescriptions for the control or revocation of an insect passed a plant pathogen a of a weed or for the use of fertilizer or lime or soil classification systems. The the purpose of the rule of the the licensing is to insure that anybody who who charges farmers for this service have a A says a decent level of background and education mon. As I said we have a hundred seventy three licensed And not is there any questions. Content concerning this program and okay thank you and so II you're a hundred seventy three is all of them total correct yes ma'am to the grain dealer the lime vendor no no ma'am just under the agriculture Arkansas okay because I have a hundred thirty so word correct one seventy threes my my answer would be that about forty three have been license since we generalize that one or thirty number that's fine okay. eight. Senator Stubblefield thank you madam chair A let me make sure I understand this so any individual who wants to spread Lyme who has a truck that spread Lyme. They have to have a license of that is a separate. Regulation that that the it's next in line actually of what I discovered in is is a standalone agricultural consultant license but the the licensing program you're referring to is under the liming materials act and you are correct in that yes Sir so the farmer has his own truck any moves to spread his own lime after tall trees his own personal pharmacy at that allows only if he's doing it for higher public yes. And I'm prepared to move on to that if we don't have any questions on the ag consulting we can move on the go ahead to line okay. The alarming materials act rules they they actually do two things they are a registration. Requirement for manufacturers who produce lining materials and then there is the licensing aspect you spoke of for the liming applicators up staff is review the licensing side of that and other thirty nine licensees issued out but we really we we don't see a defense for that we we we would be willing to to drop the licensing aspect of this rule but we do feel we need to maintain the registration aspect of it because what that does is offers a high level of consumer protection that anybody purchasing these lining materials in order to be eligible for registration a manufacturer has to attach a detailed label to to the product and then we do through our inspector sample and test that product and ensure that it does meet those labels specifications. So the lining materials of a rule of. My good okay yes sorry you're fine but but from from this specific rule and white if you needed time and just tell me to shut up anytime but from this specific rule we we feel like the registration part of it we would like to maintain but the licensing of were not so much okay and just that one clarification just make sure you understand the registration he's talking about it's registering the product itself. Okay. A what I'd like for you to do then is to write your own recommendation and email it to me and then we can formally make that recommendation and the subcommittee at next meeting. All right. I am sorry Senator Stubblefield did you have more questions I just want to hear them repeat the recommendation that you just referred to are you are you saying that you're going to have the license dropped. Correct from people who want to spread Lyme correct okay thank you thank you madam chair thank you. All right represent of Burch. Thank you madam chair. What's a plant pathogen. Visions of clear in the lot next to my house right now and the neighbor down the street telling me what kind of stuff to use and maybe he had some stuff roundup that he purchased at Walmart or someplace like that and he brings it over to me and just based on that little look if I'm trying to get rid of the weeds in that lot he should have a hundred dollar payment to you all for a license fee is that correct. Of. Well what I'm I'm not sure on that question well the the plant pathogen would referred to that disease that may be in a Cropper particular plants that you're looking at. That can how would I know that my your does not been cleared in a hundred years. Has this out and that would be by like this by get my neighbor give me advice no no not less he was charging you for that now if you were paying him for the advice and again this is primarily directed toward agricultural practices. It's our role locked. And a painting cookies. I'm afraid by the letter of the law I might have gotten in trouble if somebody raises that I don't like that that worries me thank you thank. So it well and and when you're talking about your agricultural consultants I mean your your your folks that work in your Extension offices I mean are they are a lot of the a lot of the folks that are agriculture consultants are they working within our extension offices are they outside of that and independents type business situation inside or outside of the DO you immerse the system right there independent contractors right I mean because when you talk about grace on and all of those high level ET you absolutely have to have some knowledge or you could really do some damage to somebody's forage yes my production or you cattle farmer me livestock. So I I do appreciate that and then the last one the grain dealer fuel proceed on that one and members of the committee there was a charge that was not part of this I've had we are and printing that out for you. on the see attached chart for further explanation so we will get that to you. So the Arkansas grain dealers rule we have twenty four grain dealers licensed through this rule the the the dealers have the option of either being license through us through the state or through USDA they can have federal licenses I don't have the exact number of how many dealers in the state or federally license but I think it's in the forties In short this rule. Requires the license the in it in order to be eligible for the license the dealer has to meet a certain level of bonding requirement and they have to meet a level of record keeping requirements. And they are subject to audits and inspections from our staff annually the purpose of it is just to ensure that the grander selling actually exist and are keeping a good clear record of and it can be delivered to the bar in the in. All right and do you have a copy of the chart. Okay there's a copy a chart but will you describe the chart for us we're getting a copy of it to the for the members but if you'll just described the under fees license fee if you'll see members as says see attached chart further explanation zero annually that that's actually a charts A feel go through that tart force and read it there actually to chart one involves the bonding requirement one applies to the licensing fee the bonding requirement of requires for of grain purchases in dollar ranges of one dollar two five million dollars having a fifty thousand dollar bond and it goes up from there up to a hundred million dollars in purchases and over having a million dollars in bonding but I think the licensing fee is what your most interested in and that starts at from a purchase of grain dollars between one dollar and five million two hundred and fifty thousand dollar loss are skews me a two hundred fifty dollar license fee. From five million to twenty million it is a three hundred dollar licensee twenty million to forty million is a four hundred dollar forty million to sixty million is five hundred dollars sixty million to eighty million is six hundred dollars eighty million to one hundred million is seven hundred dollars and one hundred million and over is eight hundred dollars. Is there a reason for the. Having explain why it set up that way the graduated yes I was not part of the establishment of this rule my my thinking is the level of based on the dollar range and the amount of business that the dealer would be doing and how come complex the auditing would getting would be would get as you move up that scale which could require our auditors not employees to spend more time at all it more complicated audit and maybe more days at that business going through the vast amount of records I can just imagine the records of between one and five million dollars of business and over a hundred million dollars business some and madam chair if I can chime in on that a also the amount of business that they do can also directly reflect the amount of damage they can do to the consumers right so that bond amount would reflect potential damages to those that rely upon the representations right I understand the bonding. Part of it I'm just curious as the licensing so those fees help offset your auditing cost correct that correct yes ma'am all right that makes that makes sense okay thank you Representative Cozart. Although I read that correctly your audit fees or hourly so why would that affect your audit of the in Mike you might want to amend I think the audit the is that a is that our leaders of base fee Charlie on or doesn't okay waxed actually the the audit featured normally charged if if the U. auditor finds a penalty and and the the law reads may be charged I don't believe that normally that won the auditor works with them that they actually charge that fee. We just clarification on that yes Sir it you will provide you some clarification this this is one of those situations where are the fee structure here was just a little bit different and and on the report that we can file we only have the option to click a few boxes and it really didn't set up so we'll be happy to get you a better explanation or by that up again thank you yeah I feel the gives and not to our staff and still send it out to all the members of the committee. That would be great. Thank you are there any other questions alright thank you if you will get that recommendation in writing for us and we'll send it to the staff and then I'll be happy to make that recommendation that the next meeting yes ma'am thank you thanks everybody thank you for your work all right if there's no other business to come before the committee then we are adjourned thank you.