Education Committee Senate & House

Senate OKS if you find your seats it's a bill passed one thirty when we will get going. Okay your back all right here. The remarks how you doing. We share when. I'm calling this meeting to order. Let me see and Representative Cozart you have some remarks to make yes ma'am of ladies and gentleman in your booklet that you have on your desk. I will be right behind your agenda for today there will be a of in a golden sheet I think that's a color of yours. will be the proposed time line August to December four of four committee and FOR the or A. P. A. study recommendations so if you you know are. Want to know what's going to happen when it's going to happen and what their presentation to going to be that will be in your time line that you can take a look at so let me give you an idea what's coming up. Thank you madam chair. Thank you so today we are going to have of some videos of the of from a PA that will run through and then we'll have discussions on them and but we have first right off the bat we have Mister Justin Silverstein who will talk to us a little bit and give us of a little overview of what we're gonna be hearing today gestion can you hear me. you might have to try yours. Hey there Justin. I'm going to read to the videos can you hear me these are. Okay there just go play the videos and then we're going to go through the mall and then we'll have a discussion. Go ahead. Maybe. I want to start out with her date with just a quick study dates first one of things top up this little bit just to make injury with the flexibility on where the staff is that uh from EPA in west and our our other subcontractors will make these presentations we know it's a pretty neat time and and we're gonna keep working to find the best iteration of of these presentations and today we're going with the videos I and then we will all be all the presenters will also then be online soon to answer questions after the presentation so again thank you all for your flexibility and keep letting us know better wait best ways we can get you information. We're gonna start with the presentation today with the study updates will then talk about college and career readiness and Amanda brown and Jennifer biscuit Tellier and make that presentation we have a comparison of the prior costing out studies and then what actually ended up in the Arkansas spending matrix that will be presented by mark Fuhrman action and then myself and McGill talking will come back at the end and we're gonna take a look at all the other because the studies that have been done since two thousand three resultados adequacy study is a focus on as sorry be states and how the results from the studies match up to what's in the matrix. To give a one other quick reminder we did create one pagers gently front back was some summaries for each of the presentation so we're trying to again have the video a one pager and then the ability to take the questions at the end trying to get as much as many moments to get you the information house. So when we last talked to we were vending the district survey with a handful of administrators to make sure that it was relevant to and really familiar to those into the Arkansas administrators we're able to do that and yet the survey out to districts in mid July we close that survey on the thirty first generally minor out about need window on the twenty fourth and we received over two hundred district responses which we think is really good for this type of survey also at this time we wanted to be our staff that helps distribute the survey got letters out to every district sent out that reminder and then also the administrators association was great in helping us find administrators to review this survey and also help us gets reminders out there to finish that get that service. But I guess you know biggest thank you to the justice who actually took that time to get that done in the midst of everything else going on in all the hard work. We still gonna do stakeholder engagement we've been trying to figure out what the best way to do that is throughout this process with some of the restrictions and and just how busy personnel are across the state and so our goal is to get this done right after school opens we want to get folks through someone that thanks that we feel nationally really about restart and help with second look like well for parents and educators and and district leaders and others in the community and so we're to send out the more broad stakeholder survey which we've always planned to have a very broad survey that is targeting educators which really mean anyone working in the education system so from superintendents on down to the folks working you know bus drivers and anyone else we want parents to take this business leaders to take this and others and so we'll be working at to get that out and and to get the word out I propose to take this take the survey and then we also still gonna hold those educator panels which are part of our process those target superintendents administrators other administrator school administrators teachers across the five regions to get more information about things that you know specific to the study will do those remotely we plan to start those after Labor Day so getting a little bit longer windows to get back into the system and then what we know will have to be really flexible in our tiny to make sure it's at times that work for the folks that are working in the school systems. Next meeting which is coming up the beginning of September we will have. Four five different components of the study that will be presenting on will be presenting with somewhat closer to be coming back for that we're gonna be looking at concentration poverty what of those impact of comfort concentrations of poverty we're gonna be looking at the identification of gaps in programs to address those gaps but really what's coming out was that is a real focus on where are those gaps and what types of student populations you see larger performance gaps we want to talk about the correlation between performance and funding and and does that exist and what is that look like well how do you then fund for concentrations of poverty and then last really the relationship between class size requirements student teacher ratios teacher salaries and any of the performance that we see in Arkansas so a lot of this work is going to be around that really robust data analysis that we're doing to look at relationships across the state on performance on the spending side. With that I will take questions by the house on any of these slides and and kind of where we are generally in the study okay I think what we'll do is we have a couple questions here and then we'll listen to the presentations Senator Chesterfield I thank the to appear thank you madam chair perhaps you can help me as you define gaps because what I'm seeing here is the lack of of of. Anything that has to do with racial gaps this state has been in court for over thirty years dealing with the gap between whites and blacks and the fact that many African Americans are under served do you anticipate in dealing with those gaps that you want to deal with the racial gaps and the gender gaps as well. It is. Justin Silverstein thanks for the question and that's the. We're gonna be looking at gaps by a different student demographics and they with those will include. Race and so that will be something that will be bringing forward and that will be a part of it I need to go back to the study team to see if they're looking between male and female I believe we have that data but I'm not sure it's something that we focused on but it has been run but just a issue absolutely the racial demographics by race are part of our our gap announced okay because we're stealing court in Pulaski County dealing with that issue so it would seem to me that it would be relevant but it started a little place in southeast Arkansas Senate thank you for your answer thank you madam chair. Thank you of representatives Representative Vaught thank you madam chair I have two questions ones on page three the a two hundred districts can you tell me of all regions of the state were represented in that two hundred responses. Amend around to answer that question at that does include representation from each region in this state okay I do not have the specific breakdown yes we were just getting that the final responses last week on that so we have not started to to school exam that data more robustly in kind of slice and dice and region and was okay and my second question is are you gonna have a link for us to be able to post on page four where you're talking about the surveys we all be given us some of them or we can post an asking our constituents to fill out the survey. We approve. And then we can definitely make sure that link is available to everyone on the committee's issue thank you very much participation in those as possible so we welcome anyone encouraging others to to take thank you I appreciate that thank you thank you madam chair. Representative Allen. Thank you madam chair my question bills we your survey member of the state of Arkansas. Amend. The wreckage state clarify meaning looking for a Representative sample that here's the state. Our population absolutely. Great question I approach is really more rod to try to solicit as much participation as possible and then look at the responses that we get to see how comparable the they are to this state as a whole but we try not to we're not limiting or sampling in this capacity it really as widely distributed through all. All school districts hopefully associations and media where possible have has really encourage the most participation when Dennis and other states so it's more of a reflective look once we have the responses to see how they compare to the state as a whole but first act is to try to get as many artists as possible reaching the broadest. Follow up on that quickly this is Justin Silverstein we will report the results so that there's no understanding of that distribution so if there is one region of the state that is much more how it just takes the survey at a at a higher rate we'll make sure that's clear because and and understand the waiting of responses by region and things like that so that it doesn't get money just because one group responded more than another so we'll make sure there's an understanding of what that distribution looks like after we get the results. When we go back to the demographics of your survey could you elaborate a little bit more on that. Or. Amanda brown for the record so for that the district survey where we're talking about the two hundred responses that was sent to every school district and charter administration organization in this state so that that was just for for district staff to take then when we talk about that the broader stakeholder. Survey the intention of that is to go out by the to both educators and cleaning district staff school staff of all levels and parents business leaders community members it's really meant to be a broad public survey. Thank you. Senator Johnson. I thank. Thank you madam chair up is rounder Mr Silverstein I have so little bit of follow up on the previous two questions specially Representative Alan's when you see agreement of survey targeting. Parents all the others I get them and you just kind of do those but parents I'm very concerned about how you're going to come up with a Representative sample I do know enough about polling from at least from the political side to know that the depending on how you set up your sample you can pretty well determine the out come before you even sent out the survey so I'm I'm wondering what you're doing to either make it a broader sample where it would statistically B. accurate versus a. More geographically diverse Representative sample had that is I say this because this is a critical thing when you're you're you're polling every superintendent the state that's pretty easy and I I see doctor Abernathy at the odds I can get him to tell his people Hey you got a survey you need send that a at we're doing parents. I think it's in is important to know what some of the lesson gaze parents thank you have to say as well as those that are always there never miss a PTA meeting you know are really deeply involved we need to get a real Representative sample and have you put anything in place to address that. I think that's a great question and it's it's clearly one of the the over arching challenges anytime you you look for engagement is that uh there is there there tends to be a group of folks who are who are more in June more engaged and more likely to answer so that is where is amended said we we are gonna look for every possible Avenue in order to get this out we take using membership organizations to send out the link we we had like in other states when we have been able to get local media to to actually put this out on their social media feeds and so that's gonna be something will work with the all our staff and the associations to get this out as many places as possible in on the back end of that what we have to be really careful about is taking a look at the results and understanding where those results are coming from and so there is an example in Wyoming where there was one community who got this out more and and they actually did have a majority of the results that they had a. A number of the number of people taking it what outweigh outstripped their Representative on representation in the state and we were able to to highlight that and look at the results are as we understand that and want to make sure you know this is information that can be used in conjunction with data analysis the educator panels there's nothing coming from this that's going to be its own answer so that helps a little bit and not eating a perfectly Representative sample but I I completely agree that our goal is to get his name AS broader responses many response responses we can't which really helps to facilitate that you know getting not needing not not needing to get really specific in in targeting because you're getting such a brawl our sample I think in that in many contract that we had asked for five thousand results four five thousand people who took a survey like this we just get you will a lot of information. Thank you thank you madam chair. Of all representatives memorial. Get this monitor on over here Dale. It's not working over there. one. Which was not. Is not working. Okay that's all you wanted. Okay. We had a good recreation here you might could do that. Okay all right so moving right along we had to do one thing first before we get to the presentations and that is we need to approve the minutes of the July sixth and seventh meetings do I hear a motion. Second. On favor. All opposed thank you very much okay. Just Amer ready to move forward. So. I believe you guys will then play the second video is that correct. Yep. If For today's presentation we want to cover a number of different including writing some context for college and career ready. That would include the search on indicators of postsecondary six. and then looking specifically at what just college reading this currently look like in terms of performance and the SRP states what does it look like in Arkansas and we wanted to walk through. Our different states including Arkansas thinking about defining what it means to be college and career ready. Then talk about how do you go about measuring college you ready yes lets you just wish that technician including looking at what are the ability to store sentenced in Arkansas and what how does accountability measures currently accounts for college and career ready. Also talked about a number of different methods and policies for incentivizing collagen correctness including incorporation in your graduation requirement at endorsed on the backs and certification options and scholarship opportunities for students will also provide some initial considerations for college and career readiness definitions Arkansas. Some background and context for college and career ready. Please in this area is clearly this is an important area of concern national both in within the region and within the state researchers found a number indicators and protect your support secondary stats six asked the can be examined and measured throughout thank you Tucker to protect what student will be successful with once they graduate. Will share. Asian about Arkansans performance in a number of key areas and what we're seeing is that compare to national figures. Posted secondary success in college FOR permits remediation that we're seeing Arkansas have some lower test scores on ECG compare to national and then higher levels of remediation need when we look at that sorry. However Arkansas outcomes for CTV completed the specific group of students that have taken us together courses in GDP are better for both graduation basement outcomes compared to us or east so there's there's some hostages G.. Senate research on indicators particularly postsecondary six ask we've included a hand down to the provide some examples of this more closely there's quite a body of research in this area but specifically what we're hearing is some work out of college and career readiness and success center which is documented the the research for indicators protectors and other factors related to a secondary success that from early childhood indicators on entry indicators middle and high school indicators. So if you look at the handout concedes specific indicators predictors and factors for each of the different grade levels when I want to highlight is the high school indicators that have been shown to it happened at a way of looking at it students will be successful after they graduate and indicators includes having less than ten percent of absences the math courses that students take out having a three point or greater GTA eight peer IP scores at a certain level participating in doing romantic passing state exams completing a fax sent. Certain levels of performance on CT or ECT and such will talk about the city a little more specifically so you know those projectors for easy indicators ECT are an English score over eighteen IMAX score of twenty one higher and that science work twenty four and higher and there's also indicators rounded to speeding in summer Rachel transition programs indicators. Which are slightly different than indicators because they're they're strongly correlated with improved postsecondary outcomes but they don't have it numeric threshold the same way that an indicator done and other factors initiative mentioned. Our research to some of the impact this is second success but they might not be specific metric or Mr is associated so back to back to the list of indicators for high school educators include having you school transfers and then certain levels of performance on that earlier assessments to look at yes eighteen. Factors then again don't have metrics title but they're impactful include social emotional learning programs enticements to the work that they do with counselors. School skills at the can be documented using ACT is working and skill certifications to other. So those are some indicators presenters and factors related secondary sex. Some looking **** your easy reach and sorry B. as but a great report in two thousand seventeen on college and career readiness for the region and what date have documented from from their research review is that by two thousand twenty five two out every three jobs in the US will require suppose that your education and training again this is a very important issue very relevant to your graduates. Within necessary state less than forty percent of students meet their state college and career readiness tracks and again those will vary from state to state also an average between forty and sixty percent of first year college students are required to take one or more remedial courses in English and math. And not concerning. Because less than a quarter of students you're quite remediation credential with any years so it is you are not feeling are not prepared when they arrived there less likely to three alternately at both either two or four year institution. So looking at some very well indicators sense collagen permitting us in Arkansas I'm graduation rate is right around ninety percent in the state a little higher when it's a five year graduation rate ACT scores. It's about a twenty for reading I nineteen for English which is higher than that that threshold that we mentioned before that indicator that average the CD score is just below nineteen for math and all most twenty for science both of those are a little lower than at the indicators that suggest. There being collagen her reading the college going rate is just about fifty percent and that's primarily documenting since they're going on to Arkansas. I'm here at institutions so it's a little lower than the the full number of students come to college remediation rate is about sixty five percent of students. In college credit humiliation rate which is that. Percentage of students that will earn a full year of credit within two years when they go to a postsecondary institution is fifty six percent and all this data came from what's collected by that the department of education We also did some national comparisons so if you look at the very end of the presentation is a series of appendix line. A lot of information to presenting out today. And what we found we look to nationally easy keys college and career readiness reports show that seventeen percent of graduate in Arkansas the reading this benchmarks off or ECT subject areas and that's compared to twenty seven percent nationally and Arkansas students also require higher rates of remediation of in terms of remediation in English and math acts two and four year institution so again there's a more detailed information on both of those areas at the end of the presentation. Can. You mentioned outcomes however for CT computer so those jeans and completed a series of courses in a particular C. T. area are looking better than they do in other states So this data comes from the Perkins act so specifically looking at outcomes for that CG computer student and what you'll see is technical skill attainment so did they get it technical certificates or recognition of skills in that particular area okay what are their graduation rates what are placement rates which would be either having being in a training program and a job or in the military six months after graduation and the non traditional completion which would be looking at. The number of students graduating in a particular area of you who might not traditionally be in that area so I'll be sending gender or race. So if you look at the at the very top Arkansas's hydrated and the bottom to average for the S. R. ET Jeez that state you'll see that technical skill outcomes it's a little bit lower but the graduation rate is just above the average the placement rate is seven percentage points higher than the placement a nontraditional completion is lower than the other so we're seeing some positive indicators in there this area. Related to graduation in placement two important factors. Your college and career readiness definition. In this area is that Arkansas currently has a limited definition of college and career readiness it does have a separate college and career ready standards within CG programs that are more defined in a specific measures those are included on the and explained the focus of this presentation is really on that college and career ready next year definitions of those definitions that are used for all students across the state as a way of measuring. If the college and career readiness and not just your seat you program will focus really on that that broader definition. What we found is the majority of states to define what it means to be college and career ready definitions very widely in terms of how about how the down college FOR six career ready needs and also in terms of how detailed and what we're gonna call actionable they are. So the current definition of Arkansas we will find the definition and statutes that is associated with that the comprehensive testing assessment McCallum compatibility program statutes it defines college and career readiness as the acquisition of skills do needs to be successful in future endeavors including successfully completing credit bearing first your courses at a postsecondary institution and embarking on a chosen career so again as I mentioned the state also has more detailed standards FOR tenants Gigi programs for it needs to be college and career ready. We'll be talking about this this first selected this first technician. When you look across the country the majority of states and define what it means to be caught in her ready and again as I mentioned the definitions dewberry however at twenty nine states have a college and career readiness definition with another three separately to finding college readiness and career readiness three states only have a culture in this definition and one state only has a career readiness definition there texting speaks to do not currently have a college in your reading this definition. Yeah. So one definitions but by definition of say they're dressing both college and career readiness many state definitions are not equally focused on correctness often you'll see a narrow focus on students not being read mediation when they get to a postsecondary institution nothing specific about what it means to be ready for career definitions a and also very in terms of how concrete and measurable or really actionable they are more actual definitions will identify the very specific document knowledge skills or traits that students are expected to have in order to be college and career ready. In areas that are often and dressed in what we're calling mark she will definitions include specific core academic knowledge keep the bill the city's critical thinking problem solving collaboration community center these are often referred to as twenty first century skills in a number of state then there are here and reading this skills such as resilience perseverance and dependability some or attitudes and behaviors associated with being successful. And then college and career preparation knowledge and skills such as career exploration planning and decision making and financial advice. So we need to review that each of these Collins bars represents the number of state. Missions that include those kind of key component aerials so the most definitions include academic knowledge just thirty two states and then about half of those thirty two also include some. Definition related to behavior skills those capabilities or twenty first century skills and education and career preparation knowledge and skills that students need tax. There are a number of different examples in other states that we thought were helpful to look at we've included in Maryland within this presentation and then a couple other definitions from Massachusetts which is very detailed and Ohio so as the outside the SRT region as examples of what a more actionable definition of collagen correctness look like so in Maryland college and career ready next includes mastery of rigorous content ology any abilities to apply that knowledge to higher skills. That includes again this does keep buildings that we talked about the the critical thinking that problem solving communication and collaboration in subsection. And then the additional indicators including a being able to succeeding credit was secondary introductory courses or in industry certificate programs without needing remediation so similar to Arkansas in and then find that need for under being ready for for college courses but also talking about industry certification. Having the skills for six. Identifying potential critical understanding missteps Richey them and being skilled enough and communication to six seek assistance at. So as you can see includes a number of those different areas of definition components that we talked about academic core knowledge. Keep the bill these behaviors and skills and that career and college kind of preparation skills and knowledge. So in additional examples of those actual definitions are included in the appendices the end of the presentation. So could Arkansas Missouri college and career ready wanted establishes the definition so we found and we've been continue to be very impressed with Arkansas has a really robust entity to collected. three that the department of education or the department of higher education which attracts most of the indicators and protectors of secondary expats under national research so the bill will data to really measure nearly all of these areas. deceit accountability so the school index and the high school quality and school success indicators with and it measure many components of college and career readiness so we'll talk about each of those little bit more. By senator that a talk about is there is data on assessment including your ACT aspire results across grade levels. The C. T. records and SAT scores that agreed secondary seems change needs scores you also have information on CTP completion. A technical skill attainment placement graduation again some of that data is collected on completion within in the seats data system and there's also access to that the Perkins acted at for the information that the technical skills in that post secondary placement you have information about Vince coursework that students are taking eight P. IP current call not college computer science secondary heat there's information on the college going rate credited to mutilation remediation in other outcomes GPA attendance retention eat at discipline the technical action so ET Arkansas has a really robust set of teeth and it can be used to measure ECT performance ones that definition as defined. And then the yes is a school in Jack's includes a number of components related to postsecondary sixaxis so it it's include both waited achievement student growth graduation rate and then fifteen percent of it is also based on the ask you access indicators. Looking at how to perform on assessments her graduation going and then a number of additional areas. So well seventy percent of the index is derived from performance on easy expire exams there are other areas of career in college readiness that are included as point areas within the ask USS indicators so that includes content credits high school GPA ACT composite score ACT readiness benchmarks ET AL you concurrent rolling credits computer science kind of community service last service learning credits what we're not seeing here and we'll talk about a little bit more later is indicators that are more geared towards We your reading S. versus college right so perhaps some indicator related to completing an S. T. teens sequence of courses or earning an ignition all certificate technical skills so what we'll touch on that a little bit later. So. You consider how do you go about incentivizing. Both your schools and your students to be college and career ready so one piece you we just touched on is your accountability so how are you assigned to the items that you identified as being important for students to state as they graduate so in in your school index is a piece of that some other areas are. Looking at its inclusion in your graduation requirements your digital certificates that are available and scholarship opportunities so what we found is that the state's graduation requirements include. We're focused reddit requirements and are lying to state college admission requirements that those are two pots and that she also provides additional recognized for the career component within the Arkansas screwed readiness certificate which we'll talk about a little bit more it also provides scholarship opportunities for students. And then there's some other examples from their seats for further incentivizing opportunities particular particularly for career reading aspects this college. So graduation requirements the Tate bowl below is just summarizing what this graduation requirements are in Arkansas what we think is really positive is that the six credits for career focused for additional content to really high meeting the need to also address career and the other thing that's very positive is that these graduation requirements are aligned with the college admissions requirements for the state. What we found. In reviewing other seats is that and yes sorry be region most states are similar to Arkansas and requiring for years of credit for English mass there are three states that. And they're also required three years of science. There are a number of states that require more so for predictions science and stat. Well state requirements are also lined with their seats on a mission requirements so by the region and it seems most seats are looking for a similar level of credits in their students and are similarly aligning them with their college admission what difference however is that there's only four seats a specifically requests each year career preparation in their graduation requirements and in North Carolina is if someone if that state because they require occur right next credits for specific to act so Arkansas is unique on how much it is and just acting career within its graduation requirements. Wait a state think about incentivizing college and career readiness is deployment packs. So in Arkansas that the state provides additional recognition for career readiness to the Arkansas career readiness certificate so that means it is easy working switch is a documentation of skills To provide a good distance to indicate that they are ready for occur so that's an attitude that speed and all Arkansas students and not just to the east you so that is a way of recognizing students that have this this specific skills for careers. She's also provide deployment Dorsen opportunities just seems to meet specific career college readiness standards North Carolina there's five different endorsement infallible jock Carolina has to a college reading work career ready steals a distinction and Ohio has increased technicals honors diploma and stem honors diploma. So there's different ways. Students when they graduate really being able to prove and show to future employers or to colleges that they have the additional culture readiness skills that are today. Another way to incentivize college and career readiness is for a scholarship opportunities for students so Arkansas provides a number of scholarship opportunities using lottery revenues primarily to sports teams and those tend to be focused on academic performance or assessment scores. There are some additional opportunities receives refer pursuing careers in certain fields such as healthcare IT either understand Beyonce and other examples are for being that the dependent other military personnel so there is a broad set of scholarship opportunities within the state as you mentioned they tend to be more focused on academic performance most state other states also offer scholarship opportunities and most reducing their lottery proceeds. There are some state examples that are operating expanded opportunities for specifically for XC ET AL career. So why am is a good example of DO they're halfway scholarship program they are trying to incentivize students to pursue post secondary education within their state so they provide scholarships and free tuition to their state university up there for separate merit scholarships and. Which included specific levels of. Additional course requirements they have their core. In this state and then if you document that you've taken more advanced coursework or take in more create technical education then you can receive one of the additional Max dollars. So north character Deku that and also has a seating specific scholarship that provides graduates you've completed SEG sequence with a scholarship of up to six thousand dollars within six academic year's high school graduation. In a number of these scholarships can be both used at traditional two or four year institutions and others can be used for technical skills programs. Okay so we'd like to offer some additional considerations for for that committees to consider around college and career readiness definitions each of these we still need to work through this stakeholder engagement process which will be occurring in September to get some feedback from from educators and community on these components and their inclusion STC our definition for the state. So so initial considerations we offer to you all is to we believe you should equally valid you college and career readiness in the college and career readiness definition. I did definition should include the key components of actionable definitions that we've identified in states and best practice research so that the core academic knowledge capabilities for twenty first century skills including critical thinking collaborating collaboration and problem solving using information technology behavioral skills such as dependability others perseverance resilience. Ten education and career knowledge and skills. So get that preparation and awareness and advisement of what future career and college contracts might look like we would encourage that state agencies are relied on to develop that specific standards skills and indicators under that definition to really leverage that the expertise of folks within our state. And we would then also suggests including crew ready to items in the high school SQS that sense indicators I'm so as we mentioned most of the indicators of the high school level seem to be more related to assessment workbook college maintenance and we think there should be some points apps credit for CT completion or earning one of those career readiness certificate or other technical skills attainment. So with that any any questions for axed after this light is that again all of those in Tennessee slot we look forward to answering any questions you have thank you. Thank you what's the Representative Lowery. Yes thank you madam chair of my questions related to the chart on page eight referencing Really most of these these areas of the graduation rate is is that the the high school graduation rate. Or is that the in dissipating of students who are college college bound their graduation. Amendment for the record great question that is the high school graduation rate that's the high school graduation rate okay yeah and the placement rate the ninety five point six two percent that Arkansas has of is that place but upon their college career or placement. Upon leaving high school in that place me would include college going and also career what what is the what is that percentage there an amendment to that one a again this deal is just looking at your C. T. complete so it's a bit of a subset of your school graduate written placements in you there of postsecondary institution a career or the military six months after graduation. Okay and then. Menshevik it as just one last question nontraditional completion what it what is that referring to nontraditional completion. Amend around so that would be either students by either race or gender that do not traditionally a particular industry area of species so that would be nontraditional completion. I'm sorry did you have to give me a better explanation of that. So for example if you tend to see lacks a female students graduating. stay in engineering industry area they would be included as nontraditional completion for that area. So this is to the statistic that is based on nation wide trans. I'm in a band exactly it's based on the Perkins act a definition okay alright thank you very much you're welcome senator Johnson. Okay go ahead. To be on. There is thank you madam chair of. Ran on page seven. You show the college going rate forty eight point eight percent. And you show remediation right of sixty four point nine percent is that. The remediation right of those within that forty eight point eight percent. The card up for the record state your correct that would be of those students and again those students are college bound into Arkansas universities that's the information amendment tracks and then it would be remediation of those students at that the two are sharks one so what we're looking at here in and I am hoping I'm not reading this wrong but please help me. Let's just say to round everything off. Half of our graduates right roughly going to college and of those approximately two thirds have to be remediated is that where we are more or less. In just as like clarification again at about fifty percent of your students going to college in Arkansas and the majority of your students I think it's eighty something percent I can't recall off the top of my head good one Arkansas institution for college and. And again this will be anecdotal like I can't prove this or disprove it but I would think someone that is going to an out of state school might. I have to the bar might be so little bit higher for them so we have to presume they're probably above the. The rate of those that had to be remediated in state so what we're looking at is. And this is I mean to me this is the absolute definition of what we're dealing with adequacy. Our high schools do get adequate job well we send have phone to college but you know two thirds of them have to be remediated I mean this is a glaring statistic and maybe just it didn't seem to have any right down the next chart or anything else on that about how to make sure I'm actually reading this right. Amend run through record your correct you're reading it rates there is one additional table if you go to the and of all its later you I'm not sure what page that would be in the print out but in this appendix sites it gives you a little more detail about that remediation for students and how Arkansas compares nationally again this is a little different your data and different data source of the numbers can be slightly different but you can see the difference between students that are going to your to your institutions versus four year institutions and English versus mass. And this is I think your point that this is not just limited to the data collected on students going to institutions in Arkansas but it be on students going to college is in other places so you can see these numbers are a little bit lower which I think it's two year to year can a kind of anecdotal concerned that. The remediation rates might be higher for students stay in state so while I can't again absolutely extrapolate this figure it would appear if everything is consistent that of roughly half the kids are going to college in two thirds of those need remediation than those the other half that's. Either going into the work force are going into a career technical education or something like that then they would be you just have to figure of roughly two thirds maybe even more of those would have to would have to be remediated in some manner is that is also a reasonable assumption. Amendment which we don't have the data to back up that assumption and it is that I can't quite speak to that. Okay I was asking you to extrapolate that was probably not a fair question for you so I'll just withdraw the question thank you very much madam chair yeah thank you Representative makes. Thank you madam chair I have two questions of that's okay the the first one just copy backs off of what the senator was saying here on the for bench marks if you all ACT subjects is there one in particular that were failing at verses another saying you for example you know looks like math is the lowest one here if we fix the math would that bubbles up back closer to average or are we just failing across the board. And then run if you look in the appendix slides eight thirty it does have a breakdown by the percentage of high school graduates meeting that college rent the readiness benchmarks by subject area and you can see. This state is doing better in English math and science are lower and kind of at a similar level and you're thinking targeting a particular area that might those might be kind of for staff for mass of science order what what what is considered okay so these are passed on the other question I had and it may have been more appropriate at the beginning we all understand the fact that cove it is having on schools and on education as you're going forward into the study how will you account for that well probably be as I understand it to the. Late fall early winter into spring before we get the full extent of the academic damage that that the viruses cost is that something you'll be able to take into account as you work to the study. Amend around at great question obviously there you pressing concern the way we are thinking about incorporating it kind of the same color and educator panel is to give some space to talk about concerns and issues they're anticipating for this school year two also allow us to talk about you know kind of prior to the pandemic what. It concerns any did you have about the the resource the checks or to get information about that opinions on the college and career. As you know the things that our accent of their because it concerns were going to try to give opportunities to to address both as far as the academic impact of that it's going to have you know our study concludes and the final report in December so we won't be seeing that the impact of those results until after our state is completed thank just this is Justin so resentful of just a tad the there are sections of our study that are looking at gaps and also some of the programs that that. Districts or schools can use to address some of those gaps and I think some of that information can be taken as you go forward to understand where the types of programs interventions that successful schools for national researcher saying or helpful for students and probably have to think about how those that and later on to what are likely to be some increased gaps due to some loss of learning in that in spring of this year and then you know depending what really happens in the fall also. Thank you thank thank manager. Senator Elliott. Limit we lost you do it again thank you. I thank you madam chair If. I I as I'm looking at this and what we traditionally done all our determinations about whether or not I see this going to be remediated are tied to the A. C. T. that more and more colleges and universities are not using the ACT or the SAT and they are I know the quote unquote the more it leads. So what I'm wondering about is for those folks who are no longer using such measures as these. What are they are are there other measures that we could use to determine with another student needs to be re mediated and to what extent do we know that the remediation is the result of what has not happened in school as opposed to other factors in other words do we know if we are fixing the right thing. Great question amend run for the record I think ACT will still continue to be a good source of prediction for how well students will will do and if a secondary institution even if the institutions themselves may no longer require that as a defining benchmark I think the discussion of indicators included that hand out from the college and career readiness and success center and airy are which is a federally funded Sturch look at what are the other predictors of in postsecondary ready because I think what you really seem to be looking at the resort research is that it's not just looking for academic content indicators but also really looking for what are those. what's been referred to you know as either capabilities are skills that also enable you to be successful and. You know that kind of time management perseverance kind of soft skills twenty first century skills the area that's outside of content content it's important for students equal to sixty two either again at a postsecondary institution or in a career some of those are quite at all costs. Areas and then as far as. There is there I think I hear you're concerned about what part remediation is also policies set by individual institutions and that that's a bit of a a separate question that we haven't done into for this presentation but it is out there I mean it is a institution to institution policy that set Arkansas has some specific policies in this for state institutions around basement and generally they are relying on specific ACT cut store court had scored so if you chief of of certain benchmarks that you do not require remediation you do not require to be reviewed for placement and then beyond that there is a series of if the student is not reaching this benchmarks within Arkansas there's other factors that the market including the courses that you take and eight GPA attendance there was a few more I can't think of off the top of my head but so that they do start to look at it a broader set of indicators once you get past that first layer of assessment. My question has to do with thank you for that for you for your answer and I just I still sometimes wonder if enough we know so much of what we can predict is by income and legacy of the whole thing sometimes I wonder if those students have all of these other skills we're talking about is that some of the advantage my my question though now is about the diploma endorsements I know forced some places there been some controversy as I would endorsements of whatever And you suggest to us that we should equally value college and career readiness which is I think it's a good suggestion What markers is R. their markers somewhere that will let us know whether or not we are actually doing that. It just a equally valuing them. Amended bound for the record so I think you know it starts off within the definition as I mentioned we found some language for how Arkansas currently defined it to fight the fines that the both mentions the you know not needing being successful in first year courses as well as in your chosen career so it it played some of the groundwork for making sure both those two things are within it then it's getting very specific on each of what does that mean is definitions can get very specific on what it means to be collagen her college ready again tied to assessment results of remediation rates and then it gets a little fuzzy here on what folks mean by a Career readiness so as far as measuring this other skills there are I know there's at least the one I can think of the top my head is like the ACT works means that the state currently uses right is. Career readiness certificate that are available to students so that's a measure of looking at both the skill levels and looking at I believe a. Kind of a document review of Additional kind of portfolio items to not just looking at scores the looking and products for students so there that's one example there's a few other examples of assessments that measure because the specific skills and then the other piece is a piece of it is tying it into a session on the morning curriculum or career exploration and preparation coaching along the way so there. one last defined area in terms of eating and as you can see and I doubt that. Or in. The ones that have a metric that's not tied to them but there are some examples of making sure that they are being measured for each student and then again setting those specific goals making it very clearly spelled out to the schools and districts what the goal is for all students. And I'll wait for export expiration of this later on whoever's tearing back there but maybe I ask my question wrong because I really was getting at equally about how do we know as legislators that we are equally valuing both. We at if if there's something you don't have to try to do it now because I know the other questions but that's really what I'm getting at. This. Thank you for that clarification I think how you know that is being valued is again both for spelling it out in the definition to make sure both the represented was this debate areas and skills underneath each and then the inclusion in your current accountability system to make sure you were actually providing incentives for schools and districts to do those things as I mentioned The indicators currently are very academic or post secondary focus so including item you ET completion or getting the significance which are based on measuring this other skills really demonstrates that their value it's a bit of. You you focus the things that you know you're going to be measured on so including in the accountability system is the way. Sure that's been done without in my mind. Thank you. Representative Springer. Thank you madam chair of. I'm refer saying if you I would like to call your attention to page is seven. And eight of the report that you that has just been discussed and I'm just following up with what US senator Chesterfield stated earlier as for as desegregation of your data with respect to race and gender. At a note at the bottom you say seventeen percent of graduates meet red indispensable so how do we know how many of those students are African American black white Asian whatever whatever the race is so up it would help me to understand it better if it was broken down and the segregated by race and gender and the same thing for your next page is way off and I'm and I'm just gonna hit a look at some other things so but I'll just keep it to these few pages that's been covered so I would like to see it broken down was specifically by race and gender because we do have other races in our state we can definitely do that I can turn your attention to one side for for today and we can continue to dig into that okay. Ford but if you went to slide. thirty one of the appendix. Keep the presentation short but there's so much I want to check you out of my pocket yeah looked over there I saw that yes by the Senate it's the state agency that and you can see to the the concerned there are significant gaps by raised in this area as Justin mentions we will be really doing a deep dive into performance at the next meeting west said will be leading network and that'll include looking at issues of race or gender follow up to madam chair I just wanna know how did you choose those three benchmark areas the one that you have here why did you choose the ones that you chose. Amend brown for the record this is I table from ACT or on the state of college and career readiness in Arkansas so those were their benchmark that date they typically think about what it means to be ready for school okay so are you speaking and FOR and in terms of exceeding ready close in need of support or what what it what it what is this chart show. Could you repeat that so with respect to the business marks there there are different levels that the students score the reader exceeding I believe ready clothes are in need of support so. What does this particular chart show with respect to the results of the exceeding ready. Close or in order that would be graduates that are either meeting or exceeding benchmarks for each subject area and those would be specific orders for reading English math and science. don't remember the specific cuts course off the top of my head for each area but we can provide that you are thank you. two oh it's been mentioned it would probably need this in color is a whale. Is in black and white. The record we can By this the presentation electronically seek and or or try to re create evil with some more distinguishable line thank you I'm just just kind of walked what you're seeing since you don't see the color that top most line is Asian the next line is white the middle line is American Indian slash at less than me better. the there's one that is the next one down that kind of bounces the most which should be native Hawaiian and other Pacific islanders fairly small population And then the lowest line would be black and African American students that's what I'm talking about thank you. The reasons we do not do color is because there's so many copies available by about law that on us understand but I just want the record to reflect that African American students black students are at the bottom Okay let's see Representative Deffenbaugh. No work all the area. Sorry. miss brown L. couple things I've noticed the on page seven the composite score of Arkansas. Students was like what's nineteen point six a okay. Correct me if I'm wrong a seam I thought the last two three years prior to this school year we were in the twenties. Not I mean not height to a like twenty point this and that is that the truth record I believe you're correct and if that one chart that we were we just on looking at scores over time I believe. They were they were tracking up it there had been some movement they had been hired some previous years I don't remember if it is the exact year prior or a couple years back what you're right they had I've been in the twenties at one point. Follow up. Is anyway tell whole what percent of youngsters that have to take remedial courses graduate from college and what and what would that be comparison to this seventeen percent they didn't have to be remediated anything. Amend around for the record let me look into that a little bit more the first answer I have for you is I believe on slide. It was at the beginning towards A slight six that as sorry be had put together some data on the entire regions this is not specific to Arkansas a region as a whole and and found that less than a quarter students required remediation are to credential with an eight years. Okay thank you. You Allen. Thank you thank you madam chair earlier on page seven you mention that two thirds of the students in college in the state of Arkansas requires remediation. Is that correct. That is correct okay so does it appear that our education system in an Arkansas is not adequate. The question. Record. Question thank you. I think what we're seeing here is that compared to both the state and I serve the region and nationally Arkansas at both has lower performance on post secondary readiness assessments as well as needing higher remediation which to me is the just the. Me ET I trashed I think we have to look at the the body of research that we're doing across to really say is that something about the adequacy of that system. Okay they maybe perhaps we can define average within the state of Arkansas by the number of students who that do not require college remediation. Thank you for the record I believe that would be in the purview of the committees. Thank you yes thanks. Okay let's see Senator Sturch. Thank you madam chair amend I just want to ask I'm looking at slide twenty seven looking into what side thirty three. we go from the initial considerations for the definition that you would want Arkansas to adopt and then you go and and in our appendix what we already have in law as far as the definition goes so I guess I'm asking the examples that you gave was how in Massachusetts are there definitions in law are they part of a department definition how are these defined as far as you know where are they and how are they adopted. The record quick question I'm I'm looking to Genta maybe building answer though the where to these question orange juice just briefly reviewing what we have in front of us I wanted to clarify. We need this distinction between what was really a state wide definition that's used throughout. To apply to all students Sir really deeply embedded in the second building on. And persons. specific requirements within the C. T. programs that are applicables only students in CT courses at an going to that the sequence this study is the we we did not do a comparison of those standards which are what are showing up in thirty three to how those look. Their state and against their only being used within CTV did not consider them to be the definition currently use broadly in Arkansas for what it needs to be college and career ready but as you're you're pointing out this is defined in law and it has it is much more detailed and much more specific than that the broader definition of college and career readiness so it could be a source of building the broader definition. Engine did you have a second time to give us our. I am looking for Massachusetts right now Ohio's with is not defined in statute it's actually determined by the state department of education and I am. Changes the messages that that that was a statutory definition were or defined in another through another state agency. Two we can try to look a little more deeply into or some of the these steps but again those states are just have more robust what we consider kind of more action because they're more detailed and more specific things you can measure within it as just examples for for the state to consider this as it develops its definition and again we want to get some stakeholder feedback on on all of these components of the definition as well. That's right wrist on the initial consideration stage. Mister chair if you don't mind can I do I have one more follow up to that. Okay. Well I guess I understand this maybe point blank to the committee or to the chair but you know from what I'm reading here that we already have we try to put together career and technical education in there as well not just college ready so measures may be hard to do that at the same time we have high skill high wage employment preparation we have advance continuing education already defined in some of these to me those could be measureable based on how well you could do with you know tracking students or are making sure that they did you know going to a high wage job or whatever but I really don't want us to lose sight that yes maybe only fifty percent are going to college but that does not mean according to our own definition that they're not high skilled or highway just people our citizens and that the going to make a good career or make a good living many of us in this room are not making what a plumber makes our water like Christian makes I pick on Mister rich because he's out there somewhere but Mr rich has a brother here he is a former superintendent of schools in hours for public school resource center but his brother who is a manager at Walmart and Truman makes more in his bonus than he does in the salary all year so I mean you tell me what is success and what is not according to our own definitions here as far as a high skill high wage employment preparation I just honestly side of it that is not just about postsecondary but it's also about producing good citizens who are also good I think in their own individual careers cell thank you Mr. Short question. Thank you madam chair and miss brown thank you so much I am interested in learning a little bit more about and how career readiness definitions are actionable in regards to the twenty first century skills for the states that do you and Nasher whether or not students have developed these twenty first century skills our competencies does not mean students and therefore schools are administering additional standardized tests to gauge their. Though reading the college readiness in regards to the skills. Amend around for the record Thank you state again I'd limited number of states have defined add twenty first century skills within their definition I think there's about fifteen states have done and then we have to do a deeper dive into house specifically they're measuring to those components I know summer using work he's I know some. Use it more of a portfolio approach or again and more targeted on. Including those items within their social emotional learning curriculum or defacement program still less about trying to measure them versus ensuring that. That the skills are being addressed within either separates separate courses or embedded throughout their their course of study in all classes so the single different approach in how they measure or if they measure it but we can look a little. Thank you thank you Mr. There it is thank you. Thank you thank you madam chair. The first question be directed towards the chair do we still receive the annual grade inflation report. It was that. It. At present lately I'm will and no I've asked for in recent years or looked at it and I just wondered. If there was any legislation that had done away with the requirement for that report. Okay so what will you finding out that answered the. Wanted to direct question to you about means we always seem to be coming back circling back to this issue about. Whether ACT scores or grade point or more accurate predictors of the need for remediation and I know we're starting to kinda. I would imagine the definition of those criteria is something that is. Developed at the higher end level. but have there been any studies or is there any potential you say Arkansas has a wealth of information is there any way for us to get a. Comparison that looks at me we've got this one. Broad based piece of research that says. Quarter of students who have to be remit only a quarter of students happy remediated actually earned a credential. Within eight years is are there any similar sites. Bodies of research that look at a student who has a two point five and above looks just a GPA of what the percentage of students are that earned a credential at some point. For the record still a great question GPA is another indicator that the research believes and some research says it is more indicative of your performance and postsecondary versus your assessments course so I think it's a great area to highlight the research says it tends to be at a GPA of three point oh year in high school I wouldn't need to look at. Just how we think about postsecondary success if that if they're defining it is succeeding well in first year courses during your first years or if it's just looking at graduating that could be a slightly different lands on it seventy to the the lands that we would to all. We want to see would be completion because that that definition of earning a credential could include anything from a certificate to an associate's degree to a four year degree and the only twenty five percent of those who remediated are earning one of those correct it's not just a diploma it could be a certificate or associates degree correct. Correct it it's a broader credential okay. So yes a bit more you know as a local Like I said what what we have from the department that is that guy that remediation and then that credit attainment which is looking at earning one year of credit within two years I did not see YA districts the graduation rates I think we can look by university and I just didn't to see if they then person down to where the students came from at that point you could be getting that the entirety of the the university of Arkansas graduation rate and not necessarily Arkansas high school graduates graduation rate okay well that would be real this is useful information because I think we get bogged down again on this when we start looking at adequacy we get bogged down in this issue of are we using the correct predictor and and I think when you're talking about a low percentage of twenty five percent actually receive some sort of credential within eight years only twenty five percent they've been remediated assets a pretty good predictor that something is not connecting that those students are not being adequately prepared to succeed so if there's any way for us to grab hold of that information and actually look at GPAs versus ACT score and look at it Arkansas specific that that would be great for us I believe so thank you. Representative Eubanks. Thank you madam chair do we know of the students that the the sixty four percent that require the remediation do we know that they took the necessary courses in high school that would have prepared them for. College. I know weary are I think we offer ACT to everyone so. Are we do we have students that are taken the necessary courses taken ACT and then the fighting to go to college and then because they're they're scores low enough there being required to take the remediation. Amend the record so your graduation requirements are lined with your college admission requirements that the students are taking the courses that they need to to get into college that are the expectation of the university of what they've had And then as far as the scores within it yes you're you're correct that their students that have been there for taken the necessary courses but are still scoring not at those benchmark thresholds follow. Yeah go ahead so if we had a school because I think we keep track of what every schools remediation rate is at high school graduates so if we had as. Schools that are requiring have a lot graduates that require a high percentage of repeat remediation and those kids are taken the the correct courses then we should be able to say that that school needs to look at their individual programs. Whether it be in English or math or science or whatever the case may be with that be an accurate statement you're very correct this state does have that date out by by a school there remediation rates graduation rates GPA And then if they graduate they've completed the the course of study you have there is data available than on the number of students taking particular courses within that to know state what maps sequence our students taking but. It would be a question I think for the department how that data can be tied up to individual students to see if it if a certain set of courses are having different outcomes versus another thank you. Representative Sullivan. I'll take him off I'm sorry okay Senator Elliott. I'm. Thank you madam chair I I I think when we look at whatever measures we have whether they're the A. C. T. E. R. date or whatever this issue may be out on. I don't think there is such a thing as a student doing well. If the student can't read and so what we see over and over again I can't read well and think critically. As long as we if we're going to put our stock in the ACT and that the that's what we have. That will tell us we have a reading issue date will tell us we have a reading issue so I don't think we have to just. It didn't and this too deeply if we don't address that most important foundation that students have to have and that's something that we started working on here of late at teaching reading based on the science and I'm not suggesting we need to wait another twenty years we don't but I think that's an important thing for us to remember I don't care how bright you are if you can't read you're not gonna be able to mass and you can't think you're not going to be able to any of these things we expect our kids to do so that kind of blows it down I think for me and and and a lot of ways that some things we need to address. But also if you if you just know anything about. perverse incentives At the. First incentives as opposed to Incentives that are designed to punish for sometimes when we had a incentive designed to punish they can have a print versus impact so ms brown I'm just asking you if you know anything about that research that tells us that so that it might inform what we do to move our schools ahead feels good to punish but the search I've read is pretty clear that's not that does not move the needle and we might know that by now as many years as we've had punishment type of incentives. The you know anything about the research that was my question. Okay thank you for clarifying the question I think you're making great points I think there is in the end of insured you're correct in that being postsecondary ready does not just start in high school there is really builds on indicators that you see at easy elementary middle and high school work and a lot of that is. Receipt in your earliest grades so you're correct that their foundational blocks if you're going to think about. Meeting her college and. Start at the beginning and figure out what are those underlying skills that you need And then as far as the research on incentives first as punishment We need to think on that a little bit more on if there's research on which is. Strange to be more successful and maybe just in you if you have a thought. Amended this is Justin Silverstein I think Senator to your point what we don't want to do is is create a system that incentivize and schools not to counsel students to try to attain with going to a postsecondary institution simply because it would have a negative impact on their. Readings as a school on it which I think happened if you if you could the wrong set of. Incentives in the structure where your you know what we're it's kind more mistakes than a carrot I think what we're highlighting here's at their some some gaps in some needs and I think you know designing a system that that gets the focus for all students to get to where they need to be going is is really the goal here in setting this this college and career standard and part of the RFP and and and and designing a new standard proposing a standard for you all but we actually hear you in in any of the research and any of the work we do around school finance signing systems you don't want to build in any kind of perverse incentives that that has an entity making decision that is best for the kids simply because it's best for that. Okay. I'm. Representative back. Ninety one to me again yeah thank you madam chair of. The my my question is is not on I guess I'd made some changes I'm just wanna make sure that I'm writing this. Most people are taken remediation are taking it because they didn't perform well enough on I. see teas that be correct. Assumption eight. She. For the record that's the first hi so it kind of automatically not need remediation at least in Arkansas is Arkansas's policies that Iraq you need to achieve that certain over certain benchmark cut score for ACT then within it there are policies for how institutions make placement decisions when that doesn't happen and that's looking at a broader body of work so it's not necessarily you don't make the cut score you have to take remediation it's just that the institution needs to review the information they have a need to make those placement choice. So then of could you could you help me out. With this and what percentage are you talking about what percentage of people that actually apparently made the ACT cut but the university for some into remediation classes. Amend the record is my understanding if if the students. Achieves above the ACT cut points they are they're not required to have the meeting okay so I know the split within that remediation or if there was a set of students that did not match those benchmarks but the institution did not make them take remediation I don't know what that statistic would be. So if you allow me madam chair so. Then we could say that the ACT of based upon the fact that those those students that are remediated only twenty five percent get some type of the piece of paper and eight years. We can say that the ACT is a pretty good indication of how A of individual would perform it nine nine career readiness but but certainly and and and college with that be correct. State run I think I think that would be a component to include I think to the earlier point about GPA also predictor that you might want to look at a few different indicators verses relying on a single one right so that it was good to me be and it component to include right so and I and I agree with that but then the other thing and I my for more connection then I'll be quiet the we have the great and if we still get it we have the great inflation report the grade inflation report tells us of some of institutions schools districts that grades were people have performed well and but then didn't perform as well as I should have an ACT so I think that would be another thing that would be critical for us to look at this because I'm not trying to. Side blind anyone but I think that's that's almost a leading indicator that we could be looking at their as opposed to just wait until school gets out as K. through twelve and sell out and you didn't quite get there right you would if you didn't pass it so you're not gonna I'm probably going to testify you're not gonna make it so so I think that's another component I would encourage you guys to take a look at the second there's something that we're already if we're still getting it we've already got that data so this take a look at that and and see if we can help these institutions out that seem to be struggling. Thank you the. It got two more questions and then we'll move on to our next presentation Representative Springer thank you madam chair I think it's already been established that the Arkansas standards are aligned with the A. C. T. with respect to reading math and science miss brown does your study allow you to actually go into the class room to determine what's going on in the study that you guys are doing now. Amendment for the record that that's outside of the scope of what we were asked to do. Alright thank you. Senator Chesterfield. Thank you madam chair and whereas I learned a colleague said that the standards are aligned with the ACT that does not mean that the individuals were teaching those classes are emphasizing what's in the standards. And I what's troubling to me is when we start mixing standardized testing criterion referenced test use a child does will on what he or she is talked. It's just that simple or state complex if they are not taught those things that are on the ACT for instance some of those questions may include a. this cough in those things that are not that are totally foreign to what we are about here in this state. The children are gonna do well on it and this might be a big big problem with norm referenced chest and trying to say that if I do well on a criterion referenced yesterday I don't do well on the norm referenced test then somehow my great was inflated my grade was based on what I was taught and if I do well on what I'm time I've done the best that I can do it that's why this this this it seems to me it's apples and oranges. Unless we go into those schools Dessa goes into those schools and make sure. That the standards are being taught to all children not just some. Whether they are rich or poor black or white Asian American Indian Alaska native wish deal going to get this whole rethink standing I think in public education which does not. Meaning that all of our people can be some people can't be successful in the world of work that's not that's not what it means. But traditionally people who have a certificate or a degree make more money so we're not it adequacy edit I don't know how we get there. But we've got to do a better job of making sure that even though the standards are there that we are teaching those standards. And not blaming children for doing we on on what they've been taught but not doing well what they have not been taught thank you. So we will move along now to. Mr Fuhrman edge. Going to be talking to us about of. State funding the matrix. Good afternoon my name is mark Fuhrman tech I'm with they play consulting so we need you to speak up. Hello I'm sorry it's of the video oh sorry that's okay sorry about that. This presentation will provide a comparison of the recommendations from several on adequacy studies conducted by a I guess an associates and the subsequent makeup of the state funding matrix that is based on those recommendations from the studies in which is used to provide information on resource seeing for the state funding formula state school districts the first several slides will provide a brief overview of adequacy issues in Arkansas as well as the origin of the funding matrix remaining slides will address specific comparisons between elements of the consultants recommendations and the when the matrix. The funny matrix can be traced back to the Lakeview school district lawsuit is filed in nineteen ninety two which claimed that the state school finance system was I'm I'm constitutional in terms of equity in adequacy of school funding after winding its way through the courts for number of years in two thousand to the Arkansas Supreme Court found that the state was in the violating the con state constitutions education clause in order to the state to do essentially three different things one was to find a location adequacy in Arkansas the second was to assess the state's educational system in terms of that adequacy definition and then finally once adequacy had been determined to continue moderate monitoring education spending ensure that a sum of all of my adequacy was maintained over time. Joint committee was created by the General Assembly in all three to oversee this process of the General Assembly also hired I guess an associate's conducting adequacy study and make recommendations to the joint committee and ultimately to the General Assembly. The approach used by practicing associates is known as the evidence based adequacy approach and an approach that was developed by Larry purpose now and I do Mr actually what it does is it makes it takes education research and best practices and applies those against all of the major resource the elements of the school finance system including our class sizes school sizes a teacher salaries. funding for special needs students and funding for items such as professional development technology instructional materials one area that the lease the evidence based model in two thousand three did not address at the time were district level services such as central office staffing operations and maintenance entrance transportation abide by the time the two thousand six recalibration of the evidence based model did have a research based recommendations on the central office and operations and maintenance but not on transportation. The funding matrix was developed as a way to translate the recommendations from the practice and associates study into our resource model for schools both the D. B. recommendations and the funding matrix RBS actually based on what resources are needed for a five hundred student school in the case of the matrix of five hundred student Kate twelve school and address in provides a resource in models for things such as students that or school staff salaries a school staffing and per pupil resources again such as technology instructional materials it also provides her eligible pupil our recommendations for categorical programs such as those Serbian yeah well students low income actress dunes alternative learning environment students and also teacher professional development I'm in subsequent years of the matrix also include the state's recommendation for increases in the state on nation amount AT on. So this presentation will go on to provide a fairly detailed comparisons of other two thousand three study to the matrix that was adopted in two thousand four five of the two thousand six recalibration in two thousand fourteen yes. What it does started yes will be on describe a little bit later in the presentation. So the at the conclusion of the two thousand three practice and associates study on the meter our comprehensive center recommendations totaling eight hundred forty seven million new funding are spending for schools in the state I'm most of those recommendations were adopted by the joint committee and ultimately the General Assembly and enacted through ACT fifty nine during the second extraordinary session of two thousand three and then the matrix was developed essentially translate those elements that were included in ACT fifty nine into a resource model for schools and ultimately into a Fundacion amount and then shoot categorical amounts for those areas providing services for special students on the special needs students the initial per pupil foundation amount resulting from the the two thousand four two thousand five matrix total four thousand or five thousand four hundred dollars. And here's a look at some of the I. the detailed comparisons between the two thousand three consultant recommendations and the four or five. In the matrix used to fund schools and that not fiscal year. You can see Both recommended the concerns recommended a substantial increase in teacher salaries at time of total eighteen percent including a tense ten percent across the board raised the cost of five additional days in school year that would be used as student free professional development days giving teachers a total of John during that hundred ninety days school year and then some market based features are adders that provided additional pay for teachers doing such things as working and hard to staff schools Hardstaff subject areas and other areas identified by the state of the matrix did adopt the five additional PD days and it increased minimum salaries by nearly twenty six percent of course then while work their way through the rest of the salary schedule leading to fairly substantial teacher salary increases in that year. I one area where the a final matrix in the recommendations deferred was in class sizes for record teachers are classroom teachers the consultants recommended class sizes of fifteen one in K. three and twenty five to one in grades four through twelve the matrix was funded at a level of twenty one in kindergarten twenty three one in grades one through three and then that adopt the recommendations of the consultants for grades four through twelve. The matrix also or the the consultants also recommended that in addition to the classroom teachers I every school needed a certain number of what are called ham orders specialist teachers Ambien P. E. arts music and in addition to providing instruction in those subject areas these teachers also provide time during the school day for classroom teachers to have A students free adding time and consoles recommendation was that that FTP should total twenty percent of the number of classroom teachers and school and as you can see that recommendation was adopted for the matrix as well. the matrix also recommended for the typical five hundred students school that there should be two point nine F. T. E. of mild moderate special ed teachers which was adopted in the matrix the catastrophic funding programs for special education of the recommendation by the consultants was to reduce the threshold for becoming eligible for those funding of funds are from thirty thousand high cost disabled student to fifteen thousand and that recommendation was adopted by the state board in psalms also recommended that every school should have two and a half F. T. E. of instructional facilitators use our school based coaches or professional developers to help improve the the level of instruction in a school this was this recommendation was adopted in the matrix. Of the consultants recommended that there be one point oh F. T. E. librarian and middle schools in one and a half fifty in high schools but he did not recommend a specific FTP elementary schools assuming that that allocation for hammer specialist teachers could be used to cover this this function alternatively the matrix our resource schools I with a point seven F. T. E. for all levels another area where there was some difference between recommendations in the final matrix and four oh five was in people support staff which essentially consist of guidance counselors nurses and in most cases other people support staff meeting family liaisons you can sells recommended a minimum of one with increasing F. G. E. as how pretty levels and districts one up so the more higher property your concentration of already have an adjuster more FTP would have. whereas the matrix resource to us as you will support staff and he fixed two point five FTP for all levels with no increases based on levels of poverty. For school administration the consultants recommended one principal per five hundred students school and that was adopted by the matrix there was no recommendation for assistant principals and at the time school secretary salaries were included in that carry forward that amount of finding that did not have research based recommendations for so there is no specific recommendation on school secretary Funding this shows a comparison of the consultants recommendations for a number of groups you pull funded activities including technology instructional materials substitutes professional development for teachers except for sensually the matrix adopted all of these either exactly or very similar funding. Also there were alternative learning environments which the consultants recommended that for each program there should be one teacher per twenty Ellie students the matrix adopted a somewhat higher funding level per in alley a L. the students services for struggling students there's also early significant difference here the consultants felt that certified teacher tutors where the best remediation strategy that a school could use so you recommend recommended that every school have a minimum of one. With again the F. T. E.'s increasing as the concentration of poverty increased and district alternative leave the matrix was funded through the at risk student funding was funded through the national school lunch program which I now is called the enhanced a student achievement program which provides additional funding based on concentrations of reduced lunch students at a district on the an SL program uses three different levels of concentrations with the I'm for eligible students finding increasing from the lowest to the highest levels of concentration. The consultants recommended that for yell all services every school should have a point for teacher every after one hundred ELL students coming out to be about a hundred ninety five dollars per student yellow student of this recommendation was adopted in the matrix there was no specific recommendation and changing the way that funding for gifted and talented services were handled within the state funding formula and then finally there was a for you pull funding amount for this carry forward these district level resources for which there were no evidence based or research based recommendations so again taking basically current funding our current spending on those areas inflating it to four oh five levels and then dividing by the total number of eighty on the call radio mileage. Some final areas we already mentioned that the matrix and adopted in that extra five days in the school year on the consultants are also recommended that there should be a prekindergarten program for students or kids from families below twenty percent of poverty and that was adopted through an expansion of Arkansas as Arkansas better chance pre K. programs and essentially the state was already a well down the road toward providing thank you regard students and time. This leads to the two thousand six recalibration and there's a little bit of a back story there so after the two thousand four two thousand five matrix funding cycle on the General Assembly came back. And recommended no increase in the foundation amount two thousand five two thousand six. based on on that decision a lake view and Roger school districts went back to court cleaning that was no a foundation increase that the state was out of was again violating a court order for or providing adequate level of funding of the porch and kick the can sue the special masters that were working for the court the agreed that Yes this the system the funding system was now violation of the court order and order the General Assembly to address those concerns they did that by centrally increasing the foundation amount from fifty four hundred two fifty four eighty six in making some other changes and then they also again retain picus associates to review changes to the matrix that that have occurred since the three study and make recommendations for rock stating the the school funding matrix. This provides some Comparisons between the six recommendations and the two thousand seven two thousand eight when the matrix again we don't shall all of the comparisons just those were there were significant changes or differences between recommendations and matrix so for the foundation amount there of the Arkansas instead recommended just over six thousand dollars per ATM largely that that's higher than what was ultimately funded in the matrix and the the primary differences in those Class A size differences as well as differences in some other staffing ratios and FOR people finding out of something that was an interesting is that pagus associates I at that point burn damage of the courage. Class sizes for the early grades in the funding matrix did needs of the adequacy requirements and state essentially affirm that twenty to one for kindergarten twenty three to one grades one through three was sufficient instructional facilitators there is no difference in FCP by at that point the consultants acknowledge that at least a half of an infinite yes of an FTP could be used for assistant principal positions also they increase their recommendations for staffing elementary schools by a recommending one F. T. E. for all levels I'm in the matrix the the staffing level for librarians was increased from the point seven adopted and all three to point eight to five F. T. E. R. for the seven seven oh eight school year. Some other changes were with again people support staff The the consultants were still recommending that those F. T. E. should increase with concentrations of poverty of the matrix didn't do that so the rabbit the consultant recommended that well rather than increasing F. T. E.'s there that perhaps the levels of funding for the and SO that national school lunch are pretty funding program could be used to cover some of those additional staffing positions also services for struggling students Again the the consultants reckon ginger recommend that that funding be based on a tutor positions the matrix continue to use the eligible people funding mechanisms you the national school lunch program and but they did increase the eligible people rates and then for Ailey's alternative learning environments of the consultants increased or actually decrease the staffing ratios considerably because of a change in the way that the students were counted from a head count twin FTP account because there were fewer effigies the consultants recommended reducing that teacher student ratio from one to twenty one two one eight this would have come out to just shy of seven thousand per yeah we student but in matrix this you know around for thousands dollar per a on the act a student was was maintained. I'm there are also some changes in these per pupil amounts funding for technology and IT and technology in the matrix was reduced from two fifty two twenty instructional materials for wood were reduced from one to fifty to one sixty the consultants recommended significant increase an extra duty funds including providing those to elementary schools as well whereas With the matrix those extra duty funds were reduced from ninety seven dollars in two thousand seven to fifty dollars a supervisory aid funding main relatively consistent although both when up some with the recommendations from the consultants recommending to FTP versus the one FTP in matrix a substitute funding stayed fairly stable and professional development. Change between recommendations or matrix. yellow services I can the recommend the songs continue to recommend that point for FTP for everyone hundred yell all students whereas the matrix increase their funding from that from one ninety five and two thousand three to ninety three because there is in by two thousand six there was no longer carry forward line item a special a specific line for school secretaries was included the consultants recommended to F. T. E. secretaries per school the matrix funded on that position at one ACT UP preschool and then those district level resources for operations and maintenance central office and transportation were taken and converted into per pupil amounts for both the recommendation and matrix and relatively close the the the concerns recommendation is by twenty dollars for people more Because there is a slightly different approach the the consultants actually had specific recommendations for operations and maintenance and central office staffing transportation was still based on prior your actual costs whereas the matrix essentially assume that all of these items these district level of services should come comprise about nine percent of the foundation amount plus the cost of insurance that's where we get so there's two different methods for determining that a. Finally we get to the desk audit and that's the purpose of the desk on it was not too recommend specifically how much the foundation amount or how much additional funding of the state should provide to maintain adequacy was really eats tech a look at how the evidence based model had evolved since two thousand six in compare those new recommendations to the current matrix at the time so there were no specific costume or funding recommendations I'm merely a comparison of the current ET model to the current matrix. again just showing some of the significant changes the the consultants are returned to their initial recommendation of lower class sizes in grades K. through three a fifteen one are they did increase the percentage of hammer specialist teachers in high schools thirty three and a third percent to facilitate the use of block scheduling which they also recommended for high schools and to a lesser extent a middle schools whereas the matrix consent to continue to I use a ratio of twenty percent per classroom teachers for all levels. the consultants also increased staffing for mild to moderate special education services increasing the number of teachers slightly from two point nine to three point three FTP and then matching that with three point three F. G. E. R. at a poor categorical instructional leads to work in the on special education program of the matrix still recommended on the two point nine F. T. E. originally recommended no three consultants also played around a little bit with the staffing ratios for librarians which resulted in a slight increase from one ACT UP to when when three F. T. E. really not significant in matrix those entities were increase from what eight point two five to eight point five so in a very small increase in after the ease the student support staff essentially the consultants explicitly recommended that one of those positions be one point or nurse for every seven hundred fifty K. twelve students really no change in the matrix finding in that area. Of the recommend be consultants or recommended explicitly that there be a one point oh assistant principal every six hundred nine twelve students now if you're thinking in terms of our of our K. twelve five hundred students school on that one point no translates to about a quarter after E. at this at that time the the matrix still does not include funding for an assistant principal then the Arkansans also slightly increased by about a third of an F. T. E. are the number of school secretaries preschool because of some changes the way and the staffing ratios between K. twelve nine twelve students matrix was still funding at a one point oh west you level there was also a significant change in the recommendations for A. L. lease in addition to slightly reducing us the teacher student ratio they also recommended that a one point oh FTP system principal or every twenty one eight all the students be instituted to administer these programs and then they also explicit explicitly recommended that all of those per pupil dollar amounts for things like substitute stand us instructional materials and technology also apply to a Ellie students so now that the the per pupil elite people amount increased substantially to over fourteen thousand dollars A. Ellie your bill for the consultants recommendations of the funding matrix was slightly increase but still no less than five thousand dollars for A. Ellie pupil. And then the major change for services for struggling students those those special programs for at risk and when comes students was that in addition to the the tutors and an additional support people support staff the also explicitly included staffing funding for an extended day and summer school programs bringing the total amount per eligible low income students free and reduced lunch student to over two thousand dollars per student again the state increased the eligible student rates for the on a cell program but as you can see the the overall average funding for that program was now considerably less than what was being recommended by consults. Another change the Eevee model was a move from a point for FTP teacher per one hundred yellow students or full F. T. E. L. L. teacher whereas at that led to average funding of about six twenty nine per ELL students matrix was funded at a level of three hundred twenty four dollars yeah well students the consultants also recommended a twenty five dollar per students for gifted and talented services explicitly finding that's that those programs whereas there is really no change in and how these programs refunded in the matrix extra duty funds were substantially increased by the consultants and increase slightly in the matrix So US greater gap between the recommendation in actual funding levels there professional development was doubled from fifty to a hundred dollars and recommendations by the consultants and funding in the matrix was actually cut from fifty dollars to thirty two dollars. So there you have a very quick overview compare in those of the recommendations of the consultants through those three studies to actual implementation of the funding matrix are you should have a more details a twelve page table that looks at every element in the ET recommendations and the the matrix of those three stains and now we'll open it up to questions thanks very much. I'm not seeing any questions which is great we can skip right over to our next presentation but we can get all this done today so uh I have no questions. So let's go to the next one. We're on tour last presentation of the of that day we are going to be taking a look at the other studies since two thousand three looking at cities across the country really building on the work that mark just presented we will be looking at the current. Matrix and resources in that matrix and comparing it to the results of these studies with a focus is always on the S. R. E. B. studies have been done and got it during that period of time. First we want to do is give a little. Tossing out adequacy study one one talk a little bit about the for approaches that are out there will ensure the breadth of work that's been done since three and then finally really dig into the resources and apply those compared to the resources in the matrix. The four broaches either have been developed you can really go into two different buckets and often in our mind and we're gonna put them on separate slides that professional judgment in evidence based approaches are more resource focused they have a very discreet set of resources that are being identified for either hypothetical schools or districts I think these approaches build up what it takes to get the job done for a state by looking at the number of teachers and the number of administrators and instruction facilitators and all the costs associated with running the school district. Professional judgment does that through using educators generate a fight is being educators who have. Level of knowledge in a level of skill set that can outstrips other educators in the state they identify the resources and they can I don't by both of eight base or foundation level and then adjustments for those district in student characteristics. Evidence based takes a similar approach it's gonna look very somewhere at the back and but it's gonna start really with the academic read information and the. School reform research in order to start the read that resource allocation and and building up those resources and then use state what educators about those but again they can also have base cost it adjustments for district in student characteristics. This is also schools in house function approach is on the other hand are more data driven they give us far less information on the back end about how did we get to the results to a base cost figure in the case of there's also schools are a base cost and yeah just means in cost function they and successful schools case are trying to identify set up schools or districts that are outperforming other schools our districts and then only looking at the base or foundation amount that those schools are spending to outperform those those those other schools or districts and then cost function is using a set of you know pretty complex statistical analysis to find a relationship to being spending outcomes checking account differences in student and just for characteristics again both of those can give you results but they don't give us any information about house bill or should be spent it just gives information on what the levels would be. Since two thousand three there's been a number of studies undertaken but we did is that we looked across all of the information we could find and we identified. State the study your approach or approach is used and then the type of entity the study was done for so there's been a number of studies were done by the state paid for by the legislature or the governor's office or the department of education there's also a lot of studies that are done by outside groups and sometimes activity that's will ministry herbs or the teachers unions or sometimes even foundations. And when we look at that there are forty nine studies done in thirty one states over that period of time so that means that I'm missing a number of states had multiple studies I when you take a look under the hood on the type of approach twenty one of the studies used the professional judgment I eighteen evidence based seventeen six schools and just eight used the cost function cost function is really up and coming I think it's going to see a lot more it just depends pretty heavily on a robust data set which until recently a lot of states just didn't happen and often I did you want to jump to the school. As far as you sponsor these about forty seven percent of the studies were done FOR state entities and fifty three percent for those outside or advocacy groups I would say is we look at this more and more studies are being done by the states themselves and probably fewer by up at this advocacy groups or I would say over the past five to ten years there were a lot of those can outside organization studies done in the early two thousands especially around the time of no child left. So here's a quick look at the studies what is being used in different states what you'll see is there's nine states in our group of that's right the states in Massachusetts who have no study sense three and then the others if you do you can see that a number of state use multiple approaches but not all of them by any means professional judgment is slightly were used to then evidence based or successful schools actually sorry evidence based professional judgment use the cooling and cost function and and successful schools next. And so. What we want to do is then take a look from the studies at any kind of resources that we can pull out and identify any use for comparison and and with that in mind as we mentioned before can really only do that with professional judgment and inspects the successful schools across but you just don't give us that information I'm the only give us dollar dollar amounts and waits they don't give us the underlying resources and so the slides take a look at Resources for the most comparable school or district from a study many studies use three or four different districts sizes and they might then underneath that have four different elementary's in three different mills was what we're looking for is does schools and sizes that were most closely related to that five hundred students a number that we see in Arkansas. So we talked a little bit more about that here again on on what we're looking at and then tables will show the minimum and maximum student teacher ratio of the national motto so mode is just the most frequent number we we look at running an average but we think that gets a little messy because what you're getting there's just the average of a bunch numbers persons but the most common number again so for example student teacher ratio and you will see here in a minute twenty five to one is by far the most common when you look at In a fourth grade through twelfth grade you're in an average that number would end up looking lower than twenty five to one and we think that gets a. A bad piece of data so we look at what's the most frequent and then we look at detail for each of the S. R. E. B. studies so we will see and national the national figures and then those those details the last may think most important to remember and we pulled it and if we could have it be shining probably what. Most of these studies are just as they are not actual funding levels in states so we're as Arkansans had studies made decisions about how to implement those studies most of the study we're gonna look at. Outside of like Maryland and and a couple other states we really are They were studies but they haven't been implemented into the state's finance formula at this time for each resource that we like that we will have a table that includes the figure and we will follow that table with a take away. So we'll start with instructional resource classified. Any came to the class size ratio according to the national motor was fifteen to one across all the studies and you increased and third through fifth grade the twenty five to one there is a range that you can see the consistency especially in the lower grades and across the after you the state. Six eight you see more of the twenty five to one classes with the few states falling lower. All the answer you ease the it's at twenty five to one except for Delaware which is that any. When comparing the Arkansas me checks the matrix ratios are higher at the lowest grade levels and then very similar to the national mode and answer either is all about grades jail in secondary the twenty five to one ratio is consistent across all the studies in the Arkansas HM. We look to add additional instructional resources which included instructional facilitator and library media specialist instructional facilitators are a key component of the evidence based model but are also included in professional judgment. Large variation across state ranging from one instructional facilitator for every ET student up to one instructional facilitator for every five hundred and forty in elementary and six hundred students and secondary the national mode was one instructional facilitator for every two hundred students in both the elementary and secondary levels. Really it's the instructional ability and library media specialist also have large age. And at the secondary level the high was one. I agree media specialist to roughly every one thousand students. The instructional saluted and have a lot of variation in the figures especially being driven by professional judgment result this is due to variation among the national not it is being driven by the evidence based studies and there's more consistency state. I bring the DS specialist it has been there is also the variation Arkansas has a higher reach yet the NASCAR ET and national. The accident support services this focused on guidance counselors nurses psychologists and social workers levels identify for all general education students and staff. The Arkansas me checks however only included guidance counselors and expense since those are explicitly trying out in. There are some consistency across the after the state aligning with the national being at one supports for every hundred fifty students elementary and one support staff for every hundred east and. The elementary level there seems to be a blast support staff in Arkansas with the matrix being about thirty three percent higher we see that becoming solid in the secondary level with the matrix ratios being about ten. We look at the ministry airs a service as which looks at the ministry which will be assistant principals principals in team as well as administrator of support which is your office staff secretaries and. If you look at Maryland Alabama there's there's lower compared at the answer you the state will be with the administrator levels and their support all. The Arkansas sex ratios are higher than the national and all accessories the state X. specially in terms of administrative support but we see it also in terms of the state. We identify the resources for English language learners as well but we won't have any way because English learners is funded through categorical and just not happy specific resource allocation. There is a large brains which we see as also consistent in the Askari B. state yes this is something that has been addressed over the years and in the most recent study if you're seen more of the lower resources levels of about one instructional staff for every fifteen to twenty English learner. English learner the at risk funding is coming from the NFL yes a program there's less any action in Afghanistan ET AL then means source the variation is that the state do you put and resources for administrative. Clearly there is a need for more resources for these students with about one instructional staff position for every fifty at risk students and one support services possession for every hundred. And we're talking about support and we're talking about social workers thanks let. He looked at special education resource that we how to ask the special education numbers from the meat checks to make compatible to the others. We used to calculate the number as special education students in the matrix I'll be used at thirty percent statewide average which is about sixty five student does not affect apples to apples comparison but it was a way that we could band. I'm here the study is to let me. Occurring in Arkansas. The numbers are higher in both secondary and elementary for the national merit and the actor AT state. So we looked at other task in instruction as you areas the matrix but we also looked at activities and assessments which are in many studies but they are not explicitly laid out. For you see about twenty dollars per student an ACT FOR activities BC a much brighter range but about two hundred fifty dollars per student at the secondary and twenty five dollars per student elementary. Technology dollars per student Arkansas are the same as the national mode and are very similar to the athletes study for instruction material dollars per student if the latest technology in the sense that it is the same as the national vote and it is the same or higher than what we see and after you. We look forward to answering any questions that you may. or to dive deeper into and. Thank. All right to a Representative Lowery you're recognized. Thank you Mr chair I know you've just given us an overview of all all the studies that have been out there in a time frame but well the the areas of question that I have in us moving Ford. I know it we started seeing more and more evidence that that if students are not reading by a grade level by the end of the third grade it's potential that they're never going to catch up so my question is this special since we are higher than the SRB states in the national average on student to teacher ratio a kindergarten through third grade. Have there been any states that have taken the approach of maybe adding a couple students to the secondary school level but being able to decrease by the same number at those critical grades of kindergarten through third. Is there any history of that approach being taken. This is Justin Silverstein. I do not have a explicit example of that approach there are definitely states to in the end a very Brady of ways often using on an additional weight. Simply keep the the base level the same for all kids and then dried additional funding to cater three students for some sort of additional dollar amount or smaller class sizes things like that I haven't seen that a again that can explicit trade off but we can go back in and look to see if we can find that anywhere else but I a to your point you know within a set of restricted resources that would be something you need to at least you know discuss or or or thanks for. Thank you follow Mr chair. Thank you thank you But. Mister Eubanks K. permission even if even if you didn't represented Eubanks gave me permission to follow up well it's a I had never seen it and I guess I had been looking for it that Ogden pike is said actually recommended from the very beginning of a much lower student to teacher ratio at those grades kindergarten through the three and we didn't adopted and we've not change that through the years I think that his follow up recommendation was to bring is back down I guess from. It gonna to twenty to one bring it down to fifteen to one so based on the the research that you've seen And I know I'm asking you to dive in a little bit deeper on is a specific like being able to bring students to Reading at grade level. Is that a critical. Element is that it does lower grades of having this because it everything seems to hinge off of that I mean whether students are able to do well in science history even the math is going to hinge on whether they can read at grade level in those lower grades and then moving forward. The yes I think Senator Elliot mentioned it earlier also it is a pretty consistent finding in these resource based studies either evidence based professional judgment where there is no identification of lower class sizes in the early grades and and I'm part of you know a big part of that is to ensure that ready this to read by the end of third grade but you know to please also making sure no mercy is there and things like that it is you know it you're supposed to say smaller class sizes are or one of the more expensive interventions that you can have I think Larry eight I guess an Allen would would talk about that too but you get it it is is it a remarkably consistent finding with either looking at the research the revenants face or talking to and educators to professional judgment. Okay alright thank you for much thank you Mr chair. Sure you don't wanna ask John he won another question Asking of. Now you actually have more authority than him in every way you would that has. believe that's all of our questions just and I believe you everything else. No we we appreciate you only asking Amanda most of the questions that help the rest of us. But we we we always like to questions if there's anything else that comes up after please you know for those through the chair somewhere or happy to respond thank you and we'll see you soon. Thanks so much you well all right see Amanda five. Anybody have anything else before the committee today. If not you will have of we'll be here nine in the morning the we will be going over things on the matrix and talking about some items that you all had brought up during the discussions and see if we work some of those things out and get ready to start all that so anyway see all at the nine in the morning. We are adjourned.