City, County & Local Affairs Committee-Senate and House

Members I'm a call this meeting to order city county local a joint meeting with the house city county local represent to fight and thank you Representative five for being here today in the members of the house and city county local and the Senate city county local. Of. First order of business we need a motion to accept the minutes of the last meeting got a motion and a second motion second all those in favor say aye our motion. Seconds per. Second thing we have on the agenda is a consideration to adopt a Authorizing the issuance of subpoenas. let me and let me say a word about that Friday night bear Scott call me. And we had a rather long conversation concerning the subpoenas. And he informed me that time that there would not be any of the people that we with a black come to testify that would be able to come and testify. So I informed him that we would go ahead and vote on the on the issuance of subpoenas he called me back in about thirty minutes and he said that chief pump freeze and the other two individuals from the command center would come and testify that day so in a lot of that I am going to pull down this issuance of subpoenas I don't think that'll be necessary so we'll just remove that from the agenda. All right we're gonna skip let a reference five giving thanks. We're gonna we're gonna move move along now to the Adam date chief patent. Sergeant Travis Campbell Corp rex may if you want to come forward in addition self. Tell us who you're with for the record. And we will get started. Under all hand with Arkansas stake out of place I currently hold the title of chief of police. with the department of bill was apartment for. A few more days twenty eight years. sergeant Travis Caldwell I am a sergeant over the midnight shift at the capitol of been here approximately six years and a police officer for around fourteen. My name is a corporal Greg Smith I work for Arkansas state capitol for approximately six years of an police officer now for twenty two years. Thank you German. I'm known you about ten years correct that's correct thank you were my personal bodyguard for few months near one of the sessions yes Sir A first of all I want to say thank all of you. For your service as police officers and what you do every day in fact I want to thank all the police officers in this room for what you do of we live in a crazy world right now with a lot of crazy ideas about the funding the police of. I had an officer in fact I've had two officers killed in my Senate district in the last two years. Over nothing. Other than just being at the wrong place at the wrong time. Both were shot. So instead of of you know we had we heard this idea the other day you know you hear a lot of crazy things about Dick funding the police departments. The first time I heard that I thought you know instead of the funding to police departments we need to respond the police departments because of the years of sacrifice and dedication that you have made. And the fact that you earn less many police officers in this whole state earn less than that then these part time legislators sitting in this building today now that is a justice if you want to know what it justices that isn't just. Because when you get up every day and put that weapon I'll put that bad Joan just like Kevin main or did in dental Arkansas. Never never thought he would not see his wife and children and. That that deserve much more some of the twenty four twenty six thousand dollar your salaries I've been told a police officer and in my area in sure that's true all across state. Chief and I've known for a long time in. When I read your words of the post you you put on Facebook. A few weeks ago I knew that that was a side of you that I have not seen or heard before because it was just it was something about those words it was different than the chief I'd known it touched admitting nerve in your what but I want you to describe to us of the last week that first night of the protest here in little rock what you any other officers witnessed. To the committee. Okay Senator. First of all let me say this I've been on for for for twenty eight years. Every. Year of that twenty eight it's been at the Arkansas state capitol building. A place that basically my home away from home. I've watched. Hundreds and hundreds of protest. I've been I've worked. Every kind of protest you can think of. The words that you're talking about that you read. I typed those up at four o'clock in the morning after the first night. Of the first protest. It changed it changed me standing on the front steps of the capitol building. That. This is from Maine now or not represent the secretary of state or the capitol police this is from me. What I'm telling you right now. I stood there. After my man. Or attacked with rocks. And bottles. And that brick and many more just like a concrete blocks. In my state capitol building that I take pride in that every our cans and should take pride in this beautiful building. Was desecrated it was painted. The flags were ripped down they were burned in front of my me and that we could not do nothing we tried to go out there. And we tried to get a car off of the front lawn that we spent thousands of dollars to get it is beautiful as it is. And we were we were rants back into our building. By a crowd of citizens. Fellow Arkansans ins. And we were cussed at we were spit at we were thrown rocks and bottles and bricks at and we were actually for a in fear of our lives but we had discussed before hand that we would take no. Deadly force action because we would immediately be considered the aggressor. I was cussed at and I'll never forget this lady's face she had to be about forty years old white female she cussed at me and she told me well they were spray painting my build and then just desecrating my lawn and tearing down my flag that the reason why this is happening is because of you. Because of me. All I'm trying to do is do my job to protect her rights to protest to protect every other citizens of Arkansas building their investment that they spent thousands of tax dollars on. That's what we were trying to do these men sitting beside me this is day sixteen. Day sixteen that we've been on duty day sixteen. We're here today and we might be here tonight till midnight we've pulled twelve hour shifts we've got a total of eight hundred and thirteen hours just the first five days of department over time. Just overturned. That include our regular time. Now I'll tell you what acts what I witnessed. And what led up to all of this. On the morning of on Friday afternoon for this this all occurred was this first event occurred I received intelligence. I have a great working relationship. Was several little rock police officers. Captain Helton back here's one his predecessor captain Davis man and was like brothers there's two little rock police intelligence officers that I will not name there were like family they feed me intelligence and I could not do my job without them. I can't say anything about about the rest of little rock police department of than officers the rank in the the officers on or on the ground or action officers. The night before I received on that Friday night I received intelligence that there was going to be a rally held it to president Clinton center. The number at that time was around thirty to fifty people. So I waited I called a couple of my sergeants help get ready we may have something going on. The next morning they started feeding me intelligence before daylight. Same numbers fifty sixty people. Couple of intelligence officers are with them they fed me information the crowd is growing two hundred. Now there's word they may be coming to the capitol building. So I made it Lee I called eighteen officers and had them responded to capitol building when I heard they were coming our way also contacted the Arkansas state police. And they said they'd send me everything they had. Our. I don't want to. Get into that but I heard the word peaceful protest. We welcome the peaceful protest to welcome the page for protest. Okay no problem I've worked to hundreds of peaceful protest. As the day went on all my men showed up. The state police. Activated their SRT teams or swat teams and I were standing bind gearing up course they have to come from everywhere it takes time. I'm sure little rock police department activated some specialized units as well but I was never contacted other than this intelligence officers. As soon as darkness started to fall. The mood changed in a crowd. Now you can what I I don't know anything for fact about I know there were some tags from other states in from out of town. There were hundreds of cars here we estimated around three thousand people had showed up on that first night. I'm sure there were some some character from everywhere I've heard determines the age that just a lot of the stuff this call from out of staters this was called by the citizens. That live amongst us. Now there were some out of staters involved yes there with us. But they won after spending their cars around on my long in your lawn they would not Bustin windows I'm sure there was involved but to all local folks was doing all this damage. They were the ones doing it just route along with any instigator there was there. weighty washed all this go on what we let them. Spin around in a road with Adam Statham would wind we didn't interfere whatsoever. But the the peacefulness was gone. I came. To the capitol steps. We sent a car pull up in front law. Upon sidewalk we tried remove a card us when we come under attack. One of my officers was hit in the head with a bottle another one like to get hit here with a brick we were able to retreat back in a building and we called state police who is right out just right up the street and said deploy. Which the eighty. And it took everything they had to get this crowd out of here. I don't know how much money they spent on just munitions alone but these people would line up. Against the state police throw rocks at them and then announcing who they were and giving them three minutes defect vacate the area he then let me let me just interrupt. During this whole time you were working with the Arkansas state police were you not coordinating with a little rock police department did they not have any. The only. Person that I was in contact with with the little rock police department is an unidentified intelligence officer who was feeding me intelligence. I was in Khan constant contact with the. The kernel of the state police. A major. A captain and a lieutenant in constant contact with the lieutenant expressly who's over special operations. I never once heard from anyone in command of little rock police department let me get this straight you've got three thousand protesters in front of the capitol. Are they a little rock property of the capitol room prop. They're honest they were on a city street. I will partially on our first steps right were you go off on the street and never come quickly blocking capitol Avenue would line and they were all over that area and no city police anywhere inside. Know what now no city police little rock city police anywhere inside I believe there was a few units at the intersections around the perimeter on that first night. Now there may have been some little rock special units. In the mix with the state police I don't know on that first night. And but it but we wipe that out and got it cleared out and everybody looking the same but the capitol building and and of the pictures here if you want me to scroll through them of the damage of the bill and ask you some of the damage I didn't get all the damage. If you want to see him we can we can run it through but Then the next night. Was just as bad. And the third night was just as bad. And I can go through all that. If you'd like. But the first night. Brought a realization to us that. We're in a serious situation. Every police officer. Life is in danger. And there's no such thing as and those three three first three nice there was no such thing it or may have been a peaceful protesters somewhere but when when they're doing what they were doing it wasn't peaceful to may it was actually I felt like Vietnam War had come to little rock Arkansas and I've never fought a war but six I don't want to after those first three nights. Senator the second night. Me and the state police. State in contact with each other all day long and this intelligence officer from little rock PD. The second day I never once was in contact with anyone. From the city of little rock. Or the administration for the police department of little rock PT never once. We coordinated us and state police record noted what was going to do and events that was going to take place at night because we knew it was going to get out of hand. It came in we blocked off the staff would prevent any damage to the building there was from a worker freaky there must there was another stakeout a state building damaged of several other buildings around here was damage the state police took action with their as our team cleared area again the third day was the most troubling day of all. And that was Monday that was the most troubling to me in my mind. From what I witnessed. I was very disappointed I was very hurt. I called by the mob also sector state I told him we needed some help. I even spoke to the governor of Arkansas personally on the phone. And I told him we had to have some help. Because this building that we work and we call our home was going to be burned to the ground I fell. The state police. Was right there every second of the of every day. I seen the little rock police show up. FOR the vent on the third night. I witnessed the mire of little rock I witnessed the chief of police little rock and several officers arrive I'm not condemning anyone for anything. I washed my hair in the chief of police little rock join arm in arm with these people. In a peaceful protest is what I was told and I marched away from the building. After it got dark. Right before the imposed curfew. As they went down the street we begin to receive radio traffic from our spotters intelligence officers and state police we had scattered all over the place. That they were destroying businesses windows as they went down the street following the mayor and the chief. No police officer responding to any damage whatsoever we are not going to respond into the city of little rock to handle this that was not our call we were here on the state capitol grounds US and state police. They went I don't know how far down capitol Avenue. The Meyer chief a place I don't know where they went now when they left when they were having that rally here in the left there was little rock police officers cars sitting all at every intersection around this capital building blue lights everywhere. Multiple little rock police officers. My guys were learned across the steps. And at that March left here and far as I'm concerned it was being led by the mayor and the chief. So all I can say that's what I seen I can only go by what I see. They left one ACT crowd came back that crowd was very very violent and they had done busted out we heard ready attracted busted out everyone to down to bank of a. Regions bank downtown they busted out to tire store down the street all of its wonders everyone of the get go even the Democratic Party headquarters they busted the windows at a as they went by. Our for former attorney general's office a brand new building a busted one is out of his building that the of the pharmacy association is destroyed it of poultry federation and destroyed it five oh one build a strong they come back. And when they come back and they started all that shooting follow rockets and fireworks and spend around industry. Raymond in yellow. Then I kicked the door down to the five oh one building and I started spraying excel Lawrence. Into the building. State police and and well are contacted state police which was right there right off the grounds and a deployed. By themselves no he assistance. One that crowd got back here. What appalled me the most and what concerns me the most. Was I saying the division right Dan happen because every law enforcement vehicle that had little rock markings on. In my view. Left. They pulled back seven to eight blocks and they were right there with blue lights all around us at every intersection but one ACT crowd come back without the mayor without the chief. When I got back those cars left and we could see him way a way up the street. Way way up the street and the battle was all they set fire to the. A pharmacy association that they broke into the previous night. The news media said after the state police had fired something that's a lie. I set fire that building which cost of state police to deploy they kicked in a five a one billion and tried to set fire to it which calls to state police to deploy. All the tear gas all the flash bangs and stuff like that is because they weren't they were being attacked as well. Bottles rocks bricks. So people the news media combined anything on a police but wait how help restraint restraint it's right the state police the state capitol police for another battle that nine. Now favors any large little rock police officer involved I did not see. At twelve thirty. Twelve thirty after everything was calm and quiet. In all four hundred of us officers was standing on the front steps sweating like crazy. We heard somebody holler stop. All for one third street. At that moment. We seen twelve little rock police officers cars coming down capitol Avenue running with blue lights like crazy first time we'd seen a table for the bat since before the battle began. That appalled me. That here we was in this capital city of little rock Arkansas. And I witnessed what I felt lark was a retreat an actual order to stand down that's what I would have done. With our call mommy and sit stand down pull back that's what David did not now I'm not accusing about anything because I don't know the real facts of what happened but I was on the ground I've stood on I'll stand on the steps and when I see cars blue lights and all around me the Calvary standing all around me and when the the crowd gets back. That we know is going to go crazy and those twelve thirteen fifteen police cars leave. There had to be a direct order come out and I'm not accusing any better doing that and I may be missed reading this. But I'm not the only one that scene it. And that appalled me. That we were going to have to fight this battle alone which is fine. The state of Arkansas state push state capitol police we will we will stand there. But that really really appalled me and yes I tie I typed of let those words up at four o'clock in the morning because a troubled me so bad because we have come to a point. From law in order. Rules and regulations process is. To follow to chaos. Nobody they won't results like that nobody wants the results they're asking for. You can be fun the police you can shut the place down tomorrow you can send us all home but I'll guarantee you within twenty four hours you'll be begging us to come back and you pass all a million dollars cash to come back. Because we. US. These fellows. I know we do I do and these two guys we're going to stand on the line. And we're gonna protect everyone's rights to come along that we came. And we're going to ensure that there's no property damages and non death there's no destruction and we don't care where you're from. Or who you are. Because we're going to follow the law that's what we were sworn to do. To uphold the laws of the state of Arkansas and defend the constitution of the state of Arkansas and the United States of America. Last basically all I have to say unless you want me to go into greater detail. Thank you that sergeant Caldwell Smith you to have anything you want to add. I don't have much said with the chief said I agree with him I did bring this for a reason and corporal Smith and I were talking a couple days ago he and I have stood on that line in front of the capitol many times and we've stood in front of many different groups and organizations for many different protests and rallies we've had groups that hated each other stand across from each other multiple times and we have stood in between them we've taken. what's happened in the past and we just keep going we've been spent on we've been throwing things that in the past we have had air horns go off in our faces and stood there and we take it. the difference of the crowd that gathered especially that. Saturday Sunday night. Their aggression towards us was much higher than we've that I've ever seen it was it was very different it wasn't they weren't mad at other people they're mad at us. And that first night as we went out to try to. Get a car off of the ground so off of the side walk out of the grass that was doing burnouts along with the motorcycle. Spinning its tires and a huge crowd of people and that was the point where we realize that they're gonna run over people we have to try to stop that we go out we make contact with the driver he says he's going to back up and at that moment if you watch the video which I have several times you see the crowd move and surround about eight officers. At that point we realized quickly that we need to leave we start walking back in the crowd follows and it pushes closer. bottles are thrown. The random objects were thrown a brick was thrown where went over our heads and at the feet of chief had an and over the heads of one of our officers. It was extremely different. At that moment it wasn't the same as the rallies in the past it wasn't the same as everything else it it became a lot more real and as chief and said it was. Surreal to watch people. Tear down the flags and burn them in front of the steps of a surreal to watch people spray paint the bronze doors to spray paint the stairs to spray paint the walls to. Senate tried to tear up everything that they could. It was very surreal as an officer. And. I'd love to answer questions at some point but. That's all I have to say court with. Mr me as your question yes Sir if you were over the capital in the rotunda and I walked in as a legislator and I had that brick in my hand and I threw that brick at you with the intent to harm you what would you do. I will take a take you because the. Immediately immediately. And if I started to vandalize a capital you would arrest me yes Sir regardless of my regardless of what you who you are what is the difference in an individual doing that in a group doing that under the guise of a protest. There's no difference. No different the difference if you're out differences no if you're there to do to. Demolish destroy. Any part of the capital I will arrest you my job is to protect the capitol the capitol grounds so all of you agree and that is I'm sure that everyone in this room agrees that every American citizen has the right to protest in fact I would go further to say we have a duty to protest in light of injustice and they're always be and just always been just we have a duty to protest but when X. peaceful protests turned into a ride it should be treated as such would you agree with that yes Sir are you have any other comment no Sir chief ed in Saudi call will of I echo the same words that they do that members we have a with members lined up for quite. Representative love. Thank you Mr chair and. I don't want to turn this into such a political debate but you all keep on talking about defined the police is so. We can discuss that I didn't know that we're going to be discussing here but. Ninety first St this. I posted in article on my Facebook page. In regards to what people consider defined the police. Not one person I don't care if they were black or white said that they want to totally defined the police not one not one person. And so when you begin to talk about the phone the police what they're talking about is re imagining what the police could be. The total memory allocating resources so that if you have somebody with mental illness or different things like that that the police are not directly responding to home so I don't want to get into a political battle about well what is defined the police mean but we're just talking about re imagining what the police could be and how they can respond better to certain instances now this for instance. Is is it was something they got out of control so I don't I don't I want to thank you all for not not using the deadly force this some agencies are using that that's great but I don't want to get into a political battle that define the police unless you just want to do that today I don't think we should be doing that right now but if you all want to then we can. And so that's that's what I want to say about that but the question that I have in this this to cheat head in. Question ten I noticed that you were saying that you are getting fed entail. But since you are the chief I would just. Process it is why did you not talk to the chief of police at the little rock in regards to I guess the coordination of services I know that we're all state grounds we're we're talking about well what I guess were to state grounds in little rock again and vice versa. But I would out the question that came to my mind was okay a I didn't hear the issue corresponding with. With the chief from the city a little rock so can you talk about that as well. Sure I can. You got to process is a go through here. We have a permit process if you want to have a protest at the capitol building you contact sectors state's office you fill out a form would provide you anything if you need security whatever free protest serial rock as the same thing. These protests. For. This protest it started this event on Saturday was that the Clinton library. It wasn't scheduled at capitol building okay okay so. I don't even know if they fell out of permit requested city of little rock I don't know if they follow that process or not so is proposed to be at the Clinton library and and a rumor was that it was going to come to the capitol building so I didn't feel like I needed to contact the chief of police their Intel people was in the crowd feeding me information and I just called in some extra people to in case they come to the capitol building. So I didn't need to contact with him. After the first night. it was read evident A in the news media in my mind the next day that. After the statements that the chief made the mayor made of it was such a wonderful peaceful protest and I just got to fighting a war in my mind that I would be wasting my time contacting them so I stayed in contact with the intelligence officers and a few other little rock officers to know what their response is going to be and I really really stating contact with Arkansas state police because we're talking to state grounds here and. If you if you really do some research on the state capitol grounds actually go quite a bit further than the front lawn of the capitol building but that's the we can talk about that another day but our main goal is to protect the state capitol building the state city streets and things of that nature we could've coordinator with little rock to be our main goal was to coordinate with the Arkansas state police and I had a opinion that. I did not want to reveal any. Operational tactics that we were going to use to the leadership of the city because I didn't want them to go to the protesters and so. I'll when one I just Sir something interesting yes Sir it is so did you are you are used are you staying on all records that you felt like the city of little rock police department was going to fight against the state capitol police department no I did not say that certain public I mean but you said that you didn't want to give them entail because he didn't want them feeding it to the protesters after I heard the field after I heard the political statements from the mayor and the chief of police on Saturday on. On Sunday morning our Saturday morning whatever day it was I know it all's well that Saturday night it started after I heard the statements. At the. Chief of police may and the mayor will rock made that this was a peaceful protest with a few bad actors and three thousand people or bad actors in my view because they were trying to kill me Sir on the front lawn. When I heard that that sounded to me like it wasn't it wasn't a statement like we need to calm down this needs to stop no no no it was we need to continue the protest. These are peaceful protesters. There was just a little bit of damage that's what they said go back and read the record. Regis statements watch the press conference I've got a video of the mayor making those statements. It was just a personal preference out of town actors so I did not want to. Reveal the operational planning. With the administration of little rock now captain Helton I'll be glad to have him anything. The commander of of of the special ops to motorcycles going out to amend fund intelligence offer up to anything but at that point that next morning me personally. I felt like any Intel we got would be jeopardized if I went to the chief's office. And the mayor's office that is not the other rank and file because I didn't make a statement. The state may come from the chief and the mayor. It was totally opposite a one had went down on the ground and to me that's trying to give political cover to the protesters. Now I may be wrong I may look at things different but I can only look at things the way I see on my officers lives were in danger of being killed I do not need to involve anyone that I feel could jeopardize these guys live I will give my life for any of these to me and and they would give their life for me and I do not want to go to one of their houses and explain to their wife. Or their mother or their children that they got killed on the front steps of the state capitol building trying to protect it little rock police is pulling away from the scene. No I'm serious. That's what I saw so only feeding that man any intelligence is not coming from me until they change the way they address these protesters okay alright represent of loving you need get back in the queue yes for me that and move on to a. Representative Richmond. Your question. Thank you Mr chair. And The clock this immediately became political I don't know if that was delivered but the best way not to talk about something is not to bring it up. Which is already done my question because what I'm looking for is we have the situation that happened. What we need to do is look at what went wrong and what needs to happen in the future to try to prevent a repeat of such a situation another word you guys find yourself on an island. What it sounds like to me an island and the only people there defending. So my first question is The standard operating procedure that you have or do not have is there any kind of memorandum of agreement or something between the state capitol police and a little rock police department which discusses or has an agreement about how they are to respond to this kind of situation. As of right now. To date no. Okay that is something I think that probably should be set down and discussed at some point to come up with an agreement. About what you can expect from them and what they can expect from you secondly talked about the little rock police department Intel officer is this an individual that's under cover or is this a uniformed officer that just feed you information because you're hesitant to disclose any more information about him is that to protect his identity so he doesn't get in trouble with to. I'm not going to disclose an intelligence officer that works under cover their identity at all okay I. And in that answers my question because the follow up was if it was a uniform Oscar officer why would they be why would you not disclose that unless it was concerned that they would get in trouble for coordinating with you not the case I understand as I understand your answer the officer that. Page ME intelligence and their separate a couple they're both under cover and on our own reveal their identity exactly I respect that and I appreciate that. The so much chair thank you I sent to represent Richmond way up. Senator rice you're recognized. Thank you Mr chair first to address the chair we had. Or have pictures up there is some I haven't seen those it some time are we going to scroll through those. And then going on G. P. in in Preciado junior your man and and all law enforcement it's a difficult time it's been stated here chairman actually stated there is a a need in this country is based on protests but there is a total difference in what we're saying here is that brick seven on that table is that a potential deadly weapon. Yes Sir it is and. You know we can dance route all this and with due respect to my colleague represent below we we have a fondness for each other. There I'm not saying there's people in this room but there are people that yes do want to totally de fund police watch your news media. And I understand the need for mental health. I by day at. champion that when he was in the legislature because of. Some some need that he had seen in his life in the champion that per people. And there is a need for that. But when you go to the point that you're the one. But teacher deadly weapons. I don't care if it's my kids and my grandkids and I can assure you you're not going to have a problem with the. Put your authorized from the. Shut that down. But we can we there this this is heated in its politicized in in its red hot. But if we don't get some common sense and some time kind of unity back in here please don't anybody try to justify. What. Some out of pay and the owners the. There are some good people and I and I don't know what some people have lived through. A and and. J. mo may I try to understand that. We need to understand that more but that does not justify the problems we're talking about so as we go through this please understand. That that we realize. There is a need. And four four thanks to change the there are bad apples in every organization whose bad apples been in the legislature. But they're not there when trying to kill anybody that I know of. List diffuse this as much as we can let's show some leadership. And don't justify what we know is wrong please. Thank you Mr. Thank you senator rice. Senator Elliot you're recognized. Thank you Mr chair. And I I I do. Come to us with so much trepidation. Because so many times amend senator rice said I don't know what people's experiences have been. that is really a problem with all of us is that we have not done the work we need to do to know what other people spirit experiences have been. We've not bothered. And I also do want to say to have a discussion is not synonymous with justification. Things that really bothered me that I've heard since I've been sitting here not even to mention my life's experiences. That sometimes are taken into consideration oftentimes devalued. I'm not unique. But I think we talk about process. If we don't have a memo between. The little rock police department and the capitol police today captain hidden. Did we have one two weeks ago three weeks ago. We don't have one you said as of today did we have one three weeks ago did waiting. I believe we had one under the. A memo of understanding under the previous. Administration act read as far as laying my hands on that document I I couldn't do that for you by the previous administration you mean the previous mayor yeah okay and a previous previous place GPS and so have you attempted to did you want one was that something you wanted to continue archer sure I would continue a memo of understanding with anyone yeah and did you I'll ask the same thing of the anybody and the little rock administration what did you do to continue that understanding when the new administration was elected I believe I met with the. I haven't personally met with the the new chief Humphrey eight only one one I know that I discussed to. Things with chief thanks chief full Former captain Davis and we all had a meeting I think one time the state police may be my chief of staff version of the law enforcement agencies we did go out meet with chief Opry at little rock police training academy for I don't know I don't know what I I'm sorry to interrupt you but it because I know a lot of people have questions what I'm asking is specifically about maintaining a continuing A member of no I have not have not done that so to say that we don't have one as of today we haven't had one and all is that correct with this administration no okay that's correct and we have been many attempts to have one is that no ma'am all right. When you referred to the chief as that man why did you referred to him that way rather than as a person and by his name eight I. Thank you to set rector announces that guy right there now you said you said that may no no no offensive should been taken by that but and so that you know I would send something about that guy right there. So why did you just call his name. I believe I was in a crack crack kind of passionate at the time okay all except the. And and for the folks who are us who are uncomfortable about my questions and the overlords I just want to point out a few things. There's not a person sitting here that is here to try to justify anything that you see in these pictures. And I'm going to take the time to to say this and help people here. And when you have a discussion like this and you don't inject balance into a discussion like this. We end up not make in one step toward that unity that senator rice talked about not one. Because there's no such thing as. We have a problem and it didn't come from somewhere. Because it sounds as if it just came out of the blue but that doesn't mean anybody is here to justify it and to suggest that that we are. Just the funding is repealed different from taken the time to talk and understand. And face. The problem. That we're in and that will cause and. So for example. The property that was vandalized. Should not have been vandalized. The fact that we don't have a memo should not be the case the fact that we haven't even tried should not be the case. The fact that you feared for your life you should not be the case. It also should not be the case that you would remotely referred to the mayor and the chief of police yes people who are so on worthy that you won't even bother to talk with them because they might somehow. Reveal what the strategies are how can that be. That you have that kind of opinion because of something you saw somebody say on TV. And even if you felt that way. Should there be some a tent. The leader should there be some attempt to make some kind of connections. To be sure we're working together because when I think I'm not working with somebody and I should be that's my first clue to get with it and start trying to work with them so I don't understand why you didn't do that I don't understand why we have a mayor and the chief of police that you can sit here and absolutely referred to and say they are not trustworthy enough for you to talk to so there in lies part of the problem we face in our country. Nobody has said anything about. People who died just white just wanna be in black. Nobody said a single word about the. And we're going to have a balanced conversation I think we at least need to talk about it. We can't be better as a state if we don't talk about things and try to find ways to move forward to get to move forward together. Do you do you understand have you had discussions among yourselves. And what kind of statement you'd like to make to this to this state to this country I haven't seen one I read what you thank you your face proposed. Have you made a statement to. The officers to anybody about your thoughts on what's happening in the country there's precipitating all the what we see because I think it's a big cry for all of us to figure out a way to work together to simply be a better country have you done. Have I talked to my officers about what's going on in the country yes I I said or made a statement to anybody outside of your office and and what are your feelings about it I'd be inspired like to help you share that with this. Il eight one of my personal feelings about it okay. Like I told the chairman before I represent the sector state's office in the capitol police but you want to know my personal feelings about it. I will do my part I want to be sure we're just what we're talking about the same it so that the if I'm asking you about it are your feet your feelings about the killing of of black people in this country at the hands of officers in our country. That's what I'm asking about because I think it would be really easy a disservice if we don't put all of this into context without my being accused of of of trying to defend. The the looting of whatever cost that's a whole different subject yes ma'am okay and I clearly understand what you're saying. May I. Maybe I maybe I'm not quite understand it I you you said that how do I feel about. Blacks being killed by police officers. Circumstances we've seen just I mean just recently the kind of things I understand it the the. You know it troubles me that when any law enforcement officer has to take anyone's life regardless of the race color or whatever the situation is started all this in many Minneapolis. I watch the video on that multiple times. I don't understand wine and other officer. Allowed something to go on so long and it took a man's life was the man murdered yes ma'am he was murdered by a police officer place offer happened to we white I'll agree with that no doubt about it. I don't know the circumstances that led up to that but we've discussed this. In this country we live in. Man you come into contact with each other. Okay I thought I get called to your residence or you come into contact me there's an initial contact. And one that initial contacts happened its menu. Dictate war it's going to go from there. And that's a fact the initial contact is the problem that we all have with each other not in just policing. But just in everything we do. For years when I was growing up I was tall. I went to church every time the door was open I'm sharp are supposed to love everyone I was supposed to love my neighbor one pasta hate somebody because of their color of their skin and I don't I don't do that yes everyone in here has maybe have some biases of some sort. But I don't think anybody in here's prejudice I know none of these guys are prejudice I love these to me. But what it boils down to is. We as a country. And and a few one of my personal failings I'm I consider myself a religious person. I consider myself a god believing person. And I've set back and I've watched my country. Take everything quote unquote godly out of everything we've taken crosses down because they offend people we've taken the Bible out of schools we've taken prayer out of football games but yet when some tragedy happens we say please pray for the family. In and we've taken everything good we'd want to destroy the ten commandments which is just ten good things delivered by because it's got the word god I believe you were created. By the same god that created made in the image of god so why should I hate you. We might be different color because were you that gives us our uniqueness. I don't hate anyone but that initial contact that we come into into into our presence. Is what starts ninety nine percent of all the shootings and fights and stabbings in what ever while we were out here work in any event Monday afternoon. We are twelve shots being fired. We were pro testing for a I got a got killed by a police officer. For justice. And a young black man. Was killed. Two blocks from the capitol building coming out of a funeral home by another black man. Did anybody stand up and protest for him I don't know. But that was a sad situation it's not just. Black people being targeted by law enforcement. Mr so much hate in the world because we tried to take everything godly in good out of it. We've taken it away and what if you if you have a five gallon bucket full of water and you don't some of the water around what has to feel its place something else air if you take the light the good out of our country. Because someone deems it bad what fills the void evil. Bad Rome. Correction. That's what I see you ask me my personal opinion I see we've taken the good. And slipped it that's bad now the bad is now good. You didn't grow up this way. I didn't grow up this way. I've got little kids all different colors to come up to me little key is they put their arms around when they heard me they Love Me and I love them back. They're not taught that they don't they're not born racist or top that they're not born to hate police their top that. But not born to hate each other talk that. That's what I say are in going on our country yes ma'am a personal opinion as my personal opinion god forgive us all for what we've done to our own country actually chief I ask you a very specific question yes ma'am and I think maybe that that is your answer but my specific question was about what the things that have happened between African Americans with with as and just two nights ago. A black person was shot a black man was shot in the back of running away from a police officer shot in the back twice and as you said this all started with four happen in Minneapolis it no it didn't. The date a protester what I'm saying the Vance that's what our by was saying no justice no peace John for my Star Wars what I'm getting to the notion that it started with Minneapolis is I've you know is a real failure to understand the long trajectory that would be a rector senator Elliott yes. Mr members I would like for you to keep this confined to what took place in little rock we're we're not gonna bring the national part of this into this meeting today because that's that's being taken up by the task force that government centers Mister chair I I must keep this specific to take part I we are skews me center yes sure let's keep it let's keep it to what took place in the city of little rock I I got a lot of people to testify I will Mr chair and if that's what we are we're going to do but if we are ever going to understand what happened in the city of little rock whatever a constant failures is not to not to a knowledge and understand history that's the reason I was asking that question I just have one last questions for one last question for to the chief. Chief I I've I've read your your Your post on Facebook and this is what you said not just like to ask this was a question about it a student wonder and how my great state and country my great stating country was dying before my ease. Evil consume when the human race. What evil do you think has consumed the human race. I just have to explain it to you okay if that's your answer them then you don't have to go back and do it again that's that's perfectly fine I'm finished Mr chair thank you central. senator Chesterfield you're recognized. Thank you Mr chair and thank you gentlemen for being here my question is very simple. Some parts of the city are considered state property am I correct. State property yes. From the railroad track to the back in the back of the capitol. Two about two blocks is considered state property not city property in my correct no ma'am it's it's it's it's called the. This call the state capitol grounds it's it's defined in state law is all what across street six thirty transfer all down the road correct it's not actually considered state property is kind of a. Does not the ones responsible for that area no ma'am I we have capitol police the losses that we have little rock please to county share stake out police all have the same authority and we don't see to our jurisdiction of theirs and we don't take their but it's it's a co mingling top of the city police has respect have responsibility for the state grants. Station say again the city police have responsibility that state grants no ma'am they do not that that's what I'm that's what I'm trying to get to the because we're saying several things here was saying that. We saw a little rock not being where they needed to be in this in the midst of this crisis. But this budget these particular grounds are considered state property is that not the case should they have been on this property. Should they have been on this property the city of little rock. Of this have been the state police in you there money most welcome to come here any time but sure they've been here. They have jurisdiction here yes incentive they have jurisdiction does state capitol they have jurisdiction anywhere within the city of little rock even on these grounds by law so. Where is that found because when I was trying to explain a bill. The bill was saying that particular areas of this city like to that of the governor's mansion and that of the state capitol all within the purview of the state that's correct and not the city so I'm trying to find out as we look at this dispassionately hopeful but passion is already there I can see yes ma'am I am trying to find out the lines of command and if the lines of command dictate the capitol grounds we would not have capitol police if you're not a primary responsibility for the capitol grounds if in that that same vein says this is the state capitol the capitol police within have jurisdiction mmhm is there anywhere that say is a city of little rock has jurisdiction over state property in now I don't know if there's a law that says that or not I do not know and. And and moving back to the disappointment with the chief. I've been disappointed by the response of police all of my life. Which is not there which is not I'm sure. The experience of many of my colleagues. because I have feared I every time I see the police behind me I am a four eight and not be the case former that should not be the case in this great city or in this great country but eighties because we have different experiences but I'm trying to get you how do we move to better things tomorrow should this happen and having been at one of the protest that lost peaceful. My experience with the protest was different than your experience correct by senator and say hello to hi eight don't. All of that but to have. I am concerned because if we allow what re read in the paper to dictate how we interact with each other. We've got difficulty. I agree and so I would admonish all of us to stand reading what's in the paper and do what we know to be right if you had a question about why little rock wasn't doing what little rock was supposed to do I would anticipate that you would pick up the phone and call the chief of police I don't think that's an unreasonable a request I agree that way we can start to build trust because without communication there is no trust. So going forward if there is difficulty in this city. That happens to be the capital of this state. Eight you have primary responsibility here and you need assistance are you have questions that you need to ask I would ask that we put a sat all of what we read in the paper. All of what seems to be built up animosity if I'm wrong about that term then so be it and we've got to move past that in the adults. I'm not. To each other if you're insinuating that I'm not in the bill no no no okay I I'm not insinuating sometimes I'm not myself and I'm a poor ninety other than the I'm not a okay but I am saying that it is time to put this act what we read in the paper. And I assume that that's what this is about how do we get to the cooperation that we need in order to move this society for so the what happened this last week or so does not repeat itself I would anticipate that that's why we're here. And not to to castigate each other. But to find common ground because it that's not why we're here then there's any no need for us being here because we'll never find it if we don't talk to each other thank you Mr chair I commit thank you senator Chesterfield. The message quick question about what members keep records worry because we've got a lot of people in queue and we don't have all day but if you will if you were on the front steps of this capitol you witnessed a little rock police officer shot on the other side of this invisible line that you don't have jurisdiction would you go over to help him in a minute and entities and everybody across to do the same thing reciprocate the same yes. Okay our next is a Representative flowers. Thank you Mr chair. I'm a try to be as brief as I can and speak to my experience. With regard to A protest that I help to support. Going through the proper channels last year and I bring this up because. My larger to a larger point that I'll make later. Last year when Bradley Blackshaw there. Was killed by police and what many of us saw was reported on by television I was contacted by the leader of an organization who wanted to have a. Stage a protest on the capitol steps. I filled out the application Well in advance contacted the office. To find out what. The approval with the. And. Up until the day before. I was notified that probably for the first time in the history of the capitol a legislator was not going to be allowed to extend the use of capital facilities. And it bubbled up into several meetings. But what was told to me then and in the subsequent meetings. Was that there was Intel. Of about. You know rumors of what may or may not happen and. That Intel was being discussed between capitol police FBI little rock police department. I didn't know why I wasn't price of that. and and subsequent to that if everyone wants to know why the rules change because all of a sudden during the course of that conversation there became a thirty day wait period. Of which I had never seen or heard and we hadn't been notified of that during the process and So I wanted to raise that because that was my experience of going through the process. Understanding how important. That it is for the people. To be able to use. The people's capital. And that didn't happen and I I can't say that it was whether or not it was because. The protest was revolving around a scenario where people were concerned about. Yet another black man being killed unarmed black man being killed in the course of interaction. But it it ended up taking place anyway I was told will that just means that we won't provide. Eighty equipment we won't provide any services but they can protest anyway and that's what happened and then when they were there. There was this police presence with you know sharpshooters on the roof. And so I'd say that to say it I want to fast forward to Saturday this past Saturday I participated and I remember seeing some of the guys and they told me please tell them that this not all of us. And I want to say that. For me and anyone I've ever spoken with that's never the perception. Most every. Capitol police officer little rock police officers state police officer that I've ever encountered. Have been of memorable lawful but we all know that that doesn't happen. All the time. And so when we talk about. Patterns as to why people are upset and pro testing without even getting into all of that the dynamics of full Landau Casteel or the twelve year old Tamir rice we don't have to talk about what's happened in other states we can look at Arkansas. My role is a door pine bluff one hundred and seven years old. Eugene Ellis. The father of a police officer. And a veteran. D. on teh ferro. Thirteen years old. And what I wish we could do. Is for all of us to protest that and to be upset to be more concerned about the lives of an armed people being killed at the hands of those we entrust and paid to protect and serve. See that's different than black on black or white on white or Asian on Asian or Latino on the to you know because that's what most crime is by the way there really is no such thing. If we could I have law enforcement in my family. Who I pray come home. Every night they go out. Leave it or not I prefer you all. Because I want y'all to be safe with your families and I want you to be effective so if we we we get people protesting and wanting to stand over us with rifles. And I have to be concerned about my life I want to trust that you will protect my life I do believe that. What I would love to see feel and hear. For everyone in this room for every law enforcement officer in Arkansas. Is when we see what some people call a bad apple. Which we really need to call into question because the only way that that happens is that other officers allow it. Us to be to put up pictures not only of vandalism but if the faces of people who have been killed. For us to understand that that is so important that at some point we all need to come together figure out what we do best locally and on a statewide level together. But we don't do that. And I'm sitting here. Listening. To a conversation about vandalism and how we need to be so concerned more concerned about that we never say the names of people who have been murdered by police that's never that never rises to the level of importance where we want to pass public policy to make sure that doesn't happen again. Makes me feel real tired and it makes me feel real alone and by myself. I would love to see. Law enforcement work together. Black white Latino. Republican Democrat. Independent. To see that the atrocities we've seen play out all over the country. Including in Arkansas. Be something that we care most about. Thank you thank you Representative for Representative Dalby you're recognized. Thank you Mr chair of our let me remind you again let's keep this is brief. As we can we've got a lot of questions chief I'm way over here to the right of the I will pick back up on something that senator Chesterfield made in a in a comment to ask you she said moving forward incident looking what what do we need to do I guess my interest in as a member of this committee. What. Is there something that the legislature or this committee of. Can do to help. You and your staff. In your job of which we have assigned you to protect not only the property but the members of of this body as well as the staff that come every day that would be one question and a quick question just because I don't know how many people are employed in your department I'm just not aware of of some of those kinds of things and are we giving you. The correct. Number of people A for an everyday business no doubt this was a unique situation that happened a week or so ago but is there are there other tools. Programs that we need to provide for you and your staff are there other things that we as a body can do to help your department rise to even a greater level of excellence those kinds of things that's what I'm interested in what we do we do from this day forward to make things better thank you. Representative we we have twenty two people on the state capitol police force. when I started twenty eight years ago there were ten. On the ground of twenty two over twenty eight years we've asked for more people. Every time so every time that the world changes we've asked for more people been denied. After Mister what I get killed right down the street we ask for five we got and I the best for different kind of. Tools and things of that nature and mostly because of the cost and or or the funding it's never and has been a problem but this now that we come to this this point in time and everything's come home to this per se. yes members a lot there's a lot the legislature could do to Assist this force I would recommend ten more man right now. Chance. Five per shift forty eight if we're going to have to continue down this road and and hopefully it what won't get works but at this point in time I could use ten me. I mean and like I told you want to set down here it's day. This day sixteen for us three. And we can't we can't physically continue this And I want to get twenty to pull from thank you thank god for the state police and the little rock police. As well right now but yes we we could use manpower equipment Eight eight it appears that in the us being under attack were we're going to be requesting a lot of. I hate to say it but weaponry to fight back basically so that's just my opinion. Thank you thank you Mr chair Representative Boyd you're recognized. Thank you first of all thank you all for your service I appreciate it the. First question I have is just to clarify there's been a lot of discussion about did you reach out to the little rock mayor did you reach out to the police chief of little rock and I just want to clarify because there's always two people in a relationship that either them to your knowledge reach out to you. Did they reach out to me no Sir they did not and I did not reach out to them so it was a guy I guess I could maybe a failure on both parties to today and you know okay the first day the first day the only people I was in contact with was. Our Arkansas state police intelligence Arkansas state police and rock police intelligence. And after that day. And and no certain I did reach out to me and I didn't reach out to them the leadership now Sir okay thank you. Part. Reference the board Representative Cavenaugh. You're recognized. Thank you Mr chair I just have a question why you're speaking did you say your reached out to the governor. What's all this started. I did speak to the governor owns I believe it was Sunday night. And what was his response was able to provide assistance A told me he would do everything he could and within seconds the colonel state police had me on the phone and sent everything they had okay thank you. Senator Rapert you're recognized. Thank you Mr chairman I'm not officially on the committee so thanks for loan some of us to to to all of. First of all chief and I thank you for everything that you and your department does on a daily basis to protect the people in this capital and to try your best to enforce the law and I don't want to personally thank you for that and it it grieves me greatly day to hear what you went through and to to know that anyone would come against the state capitol grounds like this come in the last few days my questions are two fold in here the kind of wrapped in one bit do you know if anybody has been arrested. For any of the crimes associated with the damage not only here at the capitol for downtown and during the say during those three initial nights of devastation I know there were there were people arrested by I believe will rot the PT arrested some folks I have no idea who they were or what they were I don't know if the state police I believe state police arrested some on the third night We have identified a couple that we're going to pre pursuing charges on if we can figure out who pay their names are records are by wears a mask nowadays so right but we had we we did not make an arrest one we were. Too busy trying to just get away I couldn't tell you the numbers right and and there's chairman maybe maybe when the LRPD comes up later maybe even you could interject that question so I don't have to get back in the queue but it would be interesting to know number one the arrest and then also I'll follow up and you may not know this because again it may have been another department but we has anybody been officially charged you know if I'm not mistaken there was an ATM or I know I'm not mistaken it was reported there was an ATM stolen from a bank I think they got that person but I wonder about the people that burn the Arkansas pharmacy association as well to you aware of any official charges that have actually been filed no Sir not aware I know the state police chase that gathers told ATM downing and took him into custody we we were blessed that on the radio but as far as any our center damage anything like it no no no charge when filed on anybody that I'm aware of him well there's a lot that I can say about this obviously you stated it many of us have stated it we've written about it what happened Mister Floyd was awful yes but I can tell you for sure that what I see going on with the devastation the riding in the looting and and now that I've seen these pictures they're much more devastating at the capitol when I first knew I don't know why our local media chooses not to inform the people of the state of Arkansas what happened but you can't look at those pictures and called anything other than what you've described it which you apps absolutely the the capital was being attacked that is not a civil way to express your voice of the first amendment to the United States constitution says we have a right to peacefully assemble anything that is not done peacefully it should be met with the the power and the. Force of law but I absolutely thank you and I think ever law enforcement officer that oppose the law and I hope that this body as it has in the past will continue to be supportive of law enforcement to up a law in the state of Arkansas thank you Mr chair like Senator Rapert we've got three more than we're going to cut it off for the cap to place Representative Scott. Can you hear me. Okay quick quick question as and I just wanna make a comment chief I know senator Elliott kinda address this but when you referred to the chief as that man and it might just be that you don't know that's kind of offensive to as and and I want to point that out and uses of the educational moment because it seems like there's a communication breakdown and leadership. Meaning you in the chief SL with all due respect the governor A Frank seem to have a very public very regulation. So I don't understand why there is some kind of break down with the two of you communication lies but also if the primary responsibility of your job and leadership is to protect your men which you made that statement in your your your testimony why would we be talking to each other if that's your primary goal is to make sure that your man go home safely to me that can't happen if in leadership you're not willing to have those conversations with that man and the chief whomever but I think if we want to get to a better place to move this country forward we have to be mindful of things that are offensive to people and how do we build those relationships across barriers where the tension is very high you know right now and and I appreciate everything the child to yeah I have done nothing but may be feel safe why I'm here but I thought minority I wanted to make sure in this body that you understand how those comments come across and I think as we continue to move forward I would like to see the teeth and you have a great working relationship like apparently the governor and Frank have I think that gets us to a better place I think we need to give you the resources you need if you need more officers that's what we're here to do but I think There's a lot that we can learn from this moment so I would I didn't want to try to attack you if that makes sense I want you to take this in the heart that I'm trying to express it but I think in order for us to move forward there has to be some kind of communication and working relationship that your intentional about creating so that you can protect the officers of the state police officers your guys between two police officers are with you the little rock police as people continue to protest because things are continuing in this country we just saw another black man that was killed and I know the national stuff comes at our front door but how we gonna respond today and protect your guys in protect the citizens who have a right to protest if it leadership were unwilling to reach across those barriers that's all I have. Can I comment on it. Yes we had to quickly I under I understand what you're saying but at any and yes you're right. I haven't reached out to the chief any has not reached out to me either so as a mutual thing with we've both been busy we've had everything under the sun going on since he became chief since everything cart going on he ate he fell into a Hornet's nest when he got here from day one he had had time to visit with me and who ever so you. I'm not gonna blame him for not made me and you can buy may for not meeting him whatever no derogatory meaning when I say that got back there I don't know him eight just be let me say and that guy right there I explained that to you I'm sorry if that offended anyone I didn't mean anything by that so we me and him both we can get on the same page work hand in hand together in the future hope we do that I don't think we've had time to meet with each other but that's just way it's all still in place. Art thank you so referenced got center Johnson you're recognized. Thank you Mr chairman. A. First of chief I just wanna thank you and your. Your colleagues both city and state police and everyone that did what they could to try to. To stop the anarchy that was going on right in front of you and the fact that having visited the pharmacy associations building I'm just grateful that's not what happened to the capital and I know that you're thin blue line. Was a difference air and god bless you and thank you for that of. Mister chairman I've I've. Want to say something about our civility here and and chief I didn't take any more fence with you making a gesture toward chief conference saying this man anymore than if I said this man I'm talking about senator Hendren and I I remind my colleagues and and Specially my dear friend Representative Scott the I've known the man that sits up on second floor the capital for over thirty five years. And I calling for and and for years I call the mesa now calling governor. And I know the gentleman that sits that city hall haven't known him we're nears long but knew him long before it was mayor and I calling Frank and now I call the mayor Scott and so I don't feel that you know and while my dear friend she obviously is friends with the mayor and can calling by his first name and and I respect that but I didn't take any offense with your gesture toward someone sitting behind you in saying this man any more than that I said this man who happens to be represented very so so please do not we we didn't bring you here to put you on the spot we you came to provide us with facts of what happened in a very tragic event. And in my feeling we're not we're not here to do that we appreciate you and I appreciate your candor of resources you might need and and I for one and I feel like a lot of us will be there next January to see the job get what you need we may need to do it sooner maybe the governor should Collis in and let us of provide that is quickly as possible I know we've had to spend a lot of money a lot of things lately but if we cannot protect our state capitol building that our forefathers when a probably couldn't really been a Ford spent almost eighteen years building for us then and I don't think we have at least protected I shudder to think what it would take to replace it if it were seriously damaged it's it's a treasure for the state and and. Our flaws as a people as individuals and collective I I I can knowledge all those in the things that my colleagues have said yeah there's a lot of truth in what they said but that's not what we're here for we're here to learn what happened what obviously has not been reported in the news media I for one have turned off Four seven eleven and sixteen because all I get is is at eighty eight repetitions of the ward peaceful protesters I'm sick of it the peaceful protesters are not news worthy. That's not news or the we've had people peaceful protest as you said you've been to thousands of a since you've been with the capitol police the problem is when I see those pictures that they flashed up on the screen and I I see the vandalism and that the the you referred to it five oh one building I was proud to sponsor the bill to rename that after governor Rockefeller it's now the winter proc of filler build again for those people that don't know it's a state on office building it's just like the building we're sitting in right now and it's status it's a state office building. are secretary of transformation has our office in that building and Arkansas state university's up on the top floor and several other state agencies are in there so I feel like that's an attack on the capital just like if they were breaking the windows at a big mac or these buildings back these windows back here in the back of this right I'm concerned. And and my wife is even spoke to me about my own safety coming up here and the very idea that is a senator I would have to worry about that and I don't worry about it because of you and your colleagues but I appreciate everything you do I do have a couple questions in this is been brought out and I just want to kind of pinpoint it down Do you believe or have did you have any indication. Whether you you could absolutely prove that or not but I have a concern or any had deduced that information the intelligence as you said about what was going on and perhaps where the not only where the protesters what they were going to be doing but perhaps how and where the police officers of all the jurisdictions we're gonna be deployed did you have any believe that that may have been at some agency level been shared with the organizers of the protest. I had a concern. After. Especially after I witnessed to pull back that I've seen. That intelligence and operational tactics could been jeopardized. And disseminated to the protesters. I had a concerning that yes I do. And in so your hesitancy maybe too to share information with someone you felt could very well have been passing it on to the people that were causing the problem led to your reticence to maybe be quiet is. Candid with other agencies or at least through certain channels would that be a fair statement. The committee first I managed it would lead me to work closer with with certain individuals in others yes okay of did. And I hate to use this term but I will use it anyway I think everybody understands website things get better after the governor's proclamation with the changing the command control situation related to all the agencies involved in in central Arkansas when the emergency declaration came out we immediately. Within hours. Seen rock place cars all over the capitol grounds we seen highway police to a game and fish even some county deputy share it was a it was like a whole new total operation it was like The Alamo got rescue. There's one that order came out yes. And I'll in with this Mr chairman chief do you feel today the capitol is safe. Yes I feel the capitol is safe. I feel that. There are people out there that want to do it very harm because it makes a statement. I feel like it is safe. Two people who or for people that want to follow the rules and regulations and laws and are law abiding people. But there is an element out there that would love to see it in court and in tatters but right now I feel like it is safe. Okay and chief I would I plan on yes reaching out to the secretary and asking him to provide us with perhaps a revised request of budget needs that that not just your department but other parts of sectors state staff might need to make sure that the capitol building and the grounds and and I understand there's gray area on the ground there's capital district zoning commission has to do with some things and then there's you know as you said if you're a little rock police officer your little rock police officer in this room and then at city hall equally I appreciate that jurisdictional crossover but I will specifically be reaching out to secretary Thurston to request that he provide us not just again you you're a part of his staff but there are other parts of his staff that have to do with more the building and and things that is we we made this is a time that you know we got take care number one and and our building here that is owned by and loved by people all three million people state of Arkansas that we need to protect it so please share with him my concern I'll be reaching out to him and his staff and also you personally anything that you need you feel that your department age will we will do thank you very much for let me speak Mr chair accent not to listen I want to emphasize one more time I hate to be stern about this you're gonna have to mend if we got three people last question each up to two minutes and I will cut you off because we've got of the committee may be coming in so Representative Ladyman you're recognized. Thank you Mr chair I'll try to be brief and I hope I can add something to the conversation not repeat what's been said but first off I want to thank you three men and those time the back or what you do for your service because every day if an advantage and you go out you can be a target I don't care what your capitol police city police county sheriff or state police it's a difficult job you have the hardest job in the world in my opinion and I used to be in there for six years and I know something about that I. With our officers. They face every day. Stop somebody first. In this building face arresting officer from his car being spent on quest. He kept his cool. I couldn't have done that. So you guys have a tough job. What I really appreciate about what you said all three of you is that you believe in the rule of law. That's your job that's what you're trying to do we make the laws the city council's the justice of the peace we make the laws what you have is written laws. That you have sworn to enforce. And to protect the public. And I appreciate you doing that. Right of my two minutes so let me go on but at the city level we have local mutual agreements with other cities in the county. And we had that when I was mayor in the way that worked if if something an attraction occurred in my jurisdiction or our police chiefs jurisdiction then. The E. L. A. N. and he knows that that was going to move into the city if their bill or the county Washington whatever. Our officer on the ground had the obligation to tell that other force Hey this is coming your way. And we had cases where we had to cities in the county working the same thing and and there was automatic. So if this incident started at the Clinton center. Which was the jurisdiction of the city of little rock. In my mind I mean it any agreement that I have ever looked at. That force if they knew that that was coming your way or going to the county or whatever it's their responsibility. It is not the mayor. I mean the the officer on the ground or whoever's in that situation it is their responsibility to call you. And let you know that's correct they did that the the first that was my first question so so they did that administers up represented. Well all right I have a lot more to say about that but again thank you all for the information today and hoping to move things fourth just one quick one quick thing Sir you know when we list names of people that lost their life in in in police enforcement situation that is bad any life lost in this situation is bad whether it is the person who broke the law or maybe broke the law or whether sent law enforcement officer I can give you the rest of the placement died while I was mayor in Arkansas and I went to the funerals it's both sides we have to talk but we have to look at both sides it's bad situation anytime anyone dies in this situation we need to examine that justice needs to be done thank you chairman. Thank you absent a labor Representative rye Senate Representative Ladyman use your two minutes you won't be able to ask any questions yes Sir be moving on to will have represented prized make every. Of thank you thank you very much Mister chairman Mister header Are capped we appreciate you so much or You know there was a time and I'm not saying that our country is perfect. And I'm not saying the state of Arkansas is perfect. But there were some a time in this country where I think that there were a lot of things that were wrong and I think you know which tater you're not by same Asian mark Senator mark you're not by same age wish all these things. Well we've come a long long way. State arcs does come a long way and I think that we need to continue to do the things that we know readers right make sure that we have good placement in place. That's a hard job and I can tell you this Mr the pay is not have A what you should be we know that. But I think that we should progress as a state and I think that what we really need to do is is trying to keep down on confusion I thank I think that's county our part in this thing because. Up until now you'll hear the little things that go on and you say they should straight out and and yeah it should be straightened out but I really do hate to see a a place. Like Minnesota they had a problem there for that just swing all the way down to state local and so. With with bill as being destructive. All these things are going on we have a good stage here and we need to smooth things out but I'm proud of what the state of Arkansas is done in the last forty or fifty years. Thank you Mr to for a last question of Representative love. Thank you Mr chair and I actually don't have a question I have more of a statement because when I when I was talking before we left off with my questions but. I felt after I'm done this month mom listening I felt it was important for me to say this and chief you know me and you've been on me since I've got here. And I wanted to let you all know. They're by no means did not yeah my under valuing your service with the questions that I ask for I do not want to do a question mind my commitment to making sure that you all are taking care because I know as a person if somebody was storm bricks to me the first thing I want to do is protect my me and so I want you all to know that now when I felt like it was important for me to say that because I know each to you guys I walk past you each session so I just want to make that statement because there isn't in no way I with the online then this is accepted with me hang and I don't think that you would know any of our legislative callings Democrat or Republican they would think that that was acceptable behavior and so. On that in I would like to say I appreciate you also work I appreciate you also concerned I appreciate you all for taking the capitol but I wanted to make this statement that you know that we all support you we walked past you every every day you you have our backs and we have your thank you thank you thank you Representative love and chief hadn't thank you thank you sergeant Caldwell corpus Smith thank you all for thank you for what you did thank you for coming today. Our. Check for a while it for you and Captain Helton and lieutenant L. center coming up I'm going to read to the committee real brief left and I'll do it quickly will take me about a minute these are the businesses that were damaged ends in the city of little rock during the protest last week back the Ozark US bank regions bank our base by like it back across back to America David right downtown diner AT and T. building few flaws Arkansas credit union association Arkansas department creates education discount tires losses a market to tackle construction Arkansas federal credit union Francis flowers Arkansas Democratic Party and FOR subway capital Brister up to twenty nine kept eleven a issue systems office Rockefeller building Levin west capital. Brown if capitol Avenue Arkansas telecommunications building folk poultry federation building Arkansas press building Arkansas pharmacy association building Arkansas protection services Arkansas forestry building law offices twelve eleven west fourth treatment Daniel building losses coffin CBM construction building on second Woodlane billing a blasting cap to McDonalds on Broadway Arkansas foot clinic Arkansas ethics commission Arkansas state board professional engineers American Legion Arkansas home furnishings association I am CS six in Chester J. in these six straight losses eight a one fourth street Arkansas teacher retirement building criminal investigation division Arkansas insurance department fifteen twelve west third building building next to the bill just building like it building across the little rock nine statute other locations in little rock target on University Avenue ponderosa ponds for current lan armadillos handle current grand Walgreen import running firm Nike store prominent target in north little rock. The building the damage to the pharmacy building long was quarter million so when you tell me there's not millions of dollars for the day I have a hard time believing that. Chief of. Chief offers if you want a state going to state your name and the other three if you want to all state your name and your position with Steve little rock for the record Mr chairman thank you members of the committee my name is Keith L. Humphrey and I have the distinct honor of being the thirty eight she the city of little rock Arkansas. Its chairman members of committee I'm here helping captain of little rock police department over the US special operations division been there for twenty four years. Yes lieutenant for Ellison over this are you and also for our school resource officers little rock police department all right thank you German chief offers you have statement you'd like to make before I do not like to start by saying that I've been in law enforcement for thirty two years. I have been the chief of police over predominately African American city what the predominately white of police force. I've been the first outside cheap in the first AfricanAmerican cheap in the city of Norman Oklahoma which was a Sunday I'll try it for you all that are not familiar with the sun downtown that's basically if you were black after slow down your rest so I was the first outside cheap in the first AfricanAmerican chief in his for that organization. When this opportunity came up to lead a little rock police department I was just the if you saw the press conference I was very emotional because I really believe and believe that I can make a difference here with all the rich history here. What about thirty two years of law enforcement I have never been called as many lawyers. As many of my character be a question my family being persecuted I've never experienced so much since I've been here in the city of little rock and as the police chief of the city and state of Arkansas the police chief of the city of little rock. I have a peer sit here they call me that million and say that he does not trust me. That is insulting. It's borderline xenophobic. Very disrespectful. And I don't know about any of you all but as a as a fifty seven year old man. That's that's this heartening. And let me just kind of explain a little bit how we got here we'll tell you the truth. I'm gonna refer to him as chief Payton because I have that much respect for you. He told about. Twenty percent of the truth. This is be factual about twenty percent of the truth. Of as the as the police chief of the capitol police chief patent has a responsibility to be it participating unified commit. That's what we had there we had a unified command that was established at the state police headquarters. So yeah little rock police you have Arkansas state police you had north little rock yeah sure would you have other entities there. I established I had command staff there I have one of my assistant chief there as a matter of fact one of my system cheese was there every night. Captain Helton ran ran control of that lieutenant Ellison was there lieutenant Casey Clark was there. Each night I with by that commands the command post to get an update. Not one time it was cheap head and they are. Unified command. Say that again unified command. If I know that the protest ARE going to start or possibly a curl my property. And it's a police chief that's responsible for protecting such a monument. I'm going to be there. I'm going to be there. Chief head was untruthful. When he said that I've never reached out to him. A call to Payton he's refused to reply he has not returned my calls. Chief hidden talks about me releasing information. Where I first met chief hidden was with after I got here in the bladder the Bradley blacks are killing. We did have an Intel meeting at the police academy little rock police academy because their work potential schedule protest based on the fact that there was some there was this of a there were people who didn't agree with the findings of the prosecuting attorney which that's the right. Chief and was there. We talked. I thought we were I thought we were court week we reported to each other we talked. He has my cart I had just had his cart. Reached out the TV no phone no answer. Maybe I should let the message but no answer. During that meeting we talked about the game plan for the the potential protest. We didn't put anything on paper because it was such a was very confidentially tale. I find it interesting the chief had talks about me the but chief head and was untruthful and told someone. That we had all the information regarding that protests and nothing was ever written he knew that but he provided that information. He's told me under the bus twice. Twice. Twice. You see the stars and stripes thirty two years. I've never had a police chief fellow police chief treat me like this. Disrespect me like he has done. Ally Michael sale truthful he has lied. And he sit there and said that merit Scott and I initiated that protest. That is totally false I'm offended by. The fact is chief hadn't had a responsibility if you have individuals that are going to protest on your property. He had a responsibility to meet with those protesters and see what they need he refused to do that so I'm not well you know what I'm not going to throw him under the bus for say that things that he said about me he did in me as far as I know he did not meet with the protesters as a matter of fact some of the protesters that I met with specifically said they attempted to meet with to pay and. And they were on state what they were unsuccessful in their efforts. We will continue as a matter of fact there is a note home on the notes here where chief head was contacted by the unified command on Friday it's seven something PM. So he wants to talk about might entail provided him on the police chief of the largest agency in the state of Arkansas. I can't talk to everybody. That's why you have attained a committee at. I think trust that to my chain of command to provide people with the information. If I can't trust my chain of command. Then I don't need. They were entrusted to provide information. Chief head could have someone out there the command post. The question that you all should be asking why did you chief of police not show up at the command post. Now what a little rock police to TTP didn't because I was out there. Getting information on my phone talking about people going to briefings. Asking why he wasn't there. Asking that. That's what you all should be asking him. I just want to clarify that. The other thing is We don't have any more you. If we do I've never seen it. And I'm quite familiar with all the info you that we have I've never seen an M. O. U.. So if he said he has a memo you and he has a produce that that's another question you off today asking why not. The other thing is we did not our our offices did not retreat that follow I'll say it again chief hadn't is lying. I'm very offended that he sent here a lot on my police department which questions my leadership. I'm a student of the profession. We talk about peaceful protest each and everyone of you all this say when the peaceful protest we didn't lose not one service and are not one officer. You talk about property damage I'm embarrassed that the capital was damaged absolutely. But if you if you if you ask me if the chief of police what would I rather happen damage to property or loss of life. I'm going to give you property all day. Because at the end of the day none of you are going to stand up in front of see any and explain why somebody was shot over property damage not any of you in this room are going to stand up for this see any in on national news and say why did the little rock police department because even if the capitol police or the state police or any other way to be involved in the shooting I've got to stand up and explain that. And none of you all are going to I'm gonna have my back on it. I've got explain as the Senate as the chief of police for this city. I took an oath thirty two years I've never be question like on being questioned now. Even in a sun downtown I was never a question like a be a question now. Never been called a liar. Never been called a cow work never been called that guy. Never. But when you talk about why we we did it we we were there. He talks about the state police we had a unified S. argue response. We were there. We protected this capital in the streets was there damage absolutely but if you ask me if I'm going to if I'm going to give a command to shoot people because they're burning of street. If you're going to ask me if I want to give commands a shoe someone because they break at the breaking windows that can be replaced absolutely not I'm not going to give the command. What do you like it or not I'm not going to give that commit. Now when you start talking about injury people and when you start talking about a possible death and and buyers and things like that do we have damage absolutely but the little rock police department was right in the thick of it. With the chief not telling you is that we have Intel. Dozens of targets throughout the city and then we have major issues at Ashland university that we had to deployed units. Is not telling you that. He's not telling you that this thing with all over the city is bigger than the capital you all. It went all over the city this happened at the capitol. It did. Nobody's asking them why they were treated his department retreated back into the capital. Yeah they paid at the doors and I'm sorry for that but we were dealing with those protesters. this fast forward to his lie regarding me in the mayor B. and participate in a protest. What what he doesn't know because if you would reach out and he he would talk to people who are going to be truthful what he would find out is I was meeting with different protest leaders to see what they need. And they asked me personally to come and the mayor personally to come. So I do show up in uniform that day. Never said a word didn't speak. We made a purpose to merit I made a that we were not going to speak. I showed up they do they recognize me I back with to the back the mayor was late getting here he came to the back in the the the mac rated up they recognize the mayor. At some point my assistant of my adjutant lieutenant grab the mayor said it's time to go. Once the mayor start walking all the crowd followed you he is from little rock you know. It is the first African American mayor you know. This let's clarify that I hope you all know that. The majority of the protesters out there were African American. To those protesters see in an African American mayor that means something say it again to see an African American police chief in the capital city means something. What was chief patent. Was he didn't. He has the audacity to come here and tell me that I was called in the the the damage. That's some nerve. That's nerve. As the mayor was trying to walk to his car the clouds followed you. He was trying to get to his car his detail kept driving off because the clout was so large. Would you all don't know there were people in the crowd they were trying to protect the mayor so he can get his car which you don't know the merit water and things go with you when he finally got his car left the scene. That well continue to walk eastbound on Capitol. Then they came back and that's when the damage started so to sit here and for you all to think that the police chief and the mayor. Which is the it would incite a riot you should be ashamed of your. Chief that. Yes your question record do you just stated that these people love the mayor yes these protesters love the mayor well a wreck and then you said that these protesters begin to hurl objects at the mayor to the sum no chairman Mister chairman if I may say that somebody started for water I didn't say those I didn't say who but somebody start or water whether it was in protest him or whatever but I want to paint the picture. That I will not allow anyone to say that by September Scott incited that ride. So whether they threw water at him and not everybody out there was not against them I'm sure there somebody just like the people who may have damage the capital it doesn't mean that all of them a police. So there was there were people that there was somebody who through some water let me to be we clarify that he was able to give the party left all right let's let's get back to the the testimony regarding the the protest themselves and what happened let me ask sent is it lieutenant Ellison. Senate bill some. Yes Sir. Are you merry. In my marriage where yes I am. If I broke into your house and. With no intent to harm me but I broke into your house would you shoot me. That's an odd question I ask it depends on the situation would you shoot me to protect your property. Once again it depends on the situation. Let me ask you another question. Are you familiar with the the letters A. P. A. B.. That wrong many of the size that would carry that night during protests. No I'm not the signs were up at the front the protesters carried. Of. Hello Mister did you see the sign. In a sign of very familiar with that what that acronym means what can you tell us what acronym meant all cops are **** all cops the signs were carried by the protesters. walking in front with the mayor the place you. Is that true. I don't know if all that of it's a war but I know there were signs that read please this Stubblefield you did not see me walking in front of that crowd with the mayor that day no I'm just asking a question I don't know what they were carrying Sir because I did not walk with the cry out. But there were signs be carried by the protesters that said all that the acronym stood for all cops or best. That's correct I wanna make sure that's correct that's correct the other were signs and red yes Sir I can't I can't say all right levels I will say that because I didn't see it art continue Mr trump for chief of so so much you know mark my concern is that we're we're saying that we didn't put to we did not see this that's absolutely false we did this is we were part of the response units that work that that Saturday night that Sunday night the governor did execute his order he did call in the National Guard once he did that he did the the colonel Bryant did take control of the command center and at that point there were a hundred and ten Arkansas state police officers there were eighty of little rock police officer and other agencies of that works is the that was broken into zones with the chief is saying that he didn't see anyone it's not true our focus what's the perimeter. We had a special resource unit that was dealing with the main focus of the protest. Our focus the the all the cars that he saw what cars they were focusing on the perimeter because when you have these type of incidents the group splintered and when they splinter they become a problem. And so we were dealing with dole's incidents and we still had eyes on the capital we still had eyes on the capital. That's what I want the committee to understand we did have eyes on the capital. If you all are familiar with the Ferguson protest and I would ask each and everyone of you all to read of the purpose an after action report. And it talked specifically about when you have these type of protest you take a tiered approach. And that's what we took a tiered approach we were ready to engage we needed to engage but I'll say it again and I won't take this back. If you ask me. What's more important. The lives of my offices in the citizens or property I want to go with the live some offices and citizens everyday all right. Chief from what I have a I went through your press conference probably ten times and listen to it more for ward and I'm going to go and give you just a brief summary of what you said please do you correct me five if I say anything wrong. Are you said early all that you said you were working on a response plan in case there were protests exactly turn into a ride thank you said that you do this based on intelligence. If you had received. This is this is before Saturday yes okay you said you had a special response team that it trying with neighboring agencies and I find this county wide because we the cap the police in the city of little rock at work but you work with the Oklahoma state police in putting this response team together Arkansas state police well you said Oklahoma state police what men Arkansas sorry in the press and press conference you said Oklahoma okay I misspoke because this is Arkansas unified command center in Arkansas state police their job was to update you on the deployment. And whether action needs to be taken also you said there was a live video feed on very serious throughout the city and that nothing could take place. Without detail comparable confirmation in the city of little rock those were your words absolutely okay. To the protest started. Coming up to the capital and then the protesters and by the way can you give me a estimate of how many well when three thousand I make a two thousand I don't even think that maybe I would say I would feel comfortable say was about. About a thousand. Our thousand that's a whole lot less than three thousand which they left they left the capital. After the damage was done here they left the capital then they went over self it took a on ramp in one across six thirty that's correct okay. Is it is it is a lot of blocking. Measure our yes it is okay especially one that has access to two major medical centers children and you A miss absolute you agree with that I would agree how long did it take these protesters to get across six thirty. About thirty minutes twenty to thirty minutes they block six thirty for thirty minutes was there a was there a over past they could have taken close to their. Yes okay so they they intentionally one across six thirty yes a block six third yes did they come back the same way no they went across six thirty went back to the capital do they come across the highway or over the overpass they came out they went across both lanes east and west by one so they bought six thirty for basically an hour no they did not blocking four how did they go back across without taking thirty minutes. They marched into the wet eastbound lanes across the median and then marched over the westbound lane it went back up the ramp correct me if I'm wrong. Center. I'm sorry I believe you're talking about when they wanted to dance interstate on Saturday when the groups When a group from the river market this started ten o'clock that morning one chief in indicated fifty to sixty grew to roughly over a hundred they went to the capitol at some point probably roughly around eleven eleven thirty I think they arrived at their and pretty much hung out the day to crowd would grow. Yelling and shrink throughout the day as we got towards the six o'clock hour we saw definitely a lot more activities number of people at increased of the group decided to March they marched down capitol Avenue all the way up up to Chester then crossed over to six street what we saw two groups splinter a book of the group went continued eastbound into the river market district the other group splintered south and went up towards the interstate what they S. P. we read unified command they were definitely where we actually thought the bulk of the group nodded and headed towards out thirty that was kind of the word we were hearing in the crowd that they might be had to die thirty to take out thirty so state police started allocate resources to the interstate because they have the jurisdictional authority to to maintain that we were also monitoring of the river market as well we were moving assets into the area to kinda maintain the orderly flow and one thing I think is a poor from the committee to understand. We had a lot of resources down there even though they weren't seen part of our deal was to maintain the safety of all protesters and those demonstrating we would bubble out what we call a bubble to block radius around any time there was a March we try to keep a two block radius to block traffic we would leap frog in order to keep cars from coming on top of the protesters so that was in place as well we started getting word that the group that it splintered off south on on Louisiana they were moving up toward the interstate and then they had walked down on they've got on the ramp onto interstate with some of our undercover officers there were in the crowd some that were monitoring it as well from afar and they had walked onto the interstate state police reposition their people that were made to to the Broadway bridge over to six thirty they were able to remove majority those protesters without any kind of issues a lot of and dispersed within a group back up again that's when they took the interstate state police responded with their SRT team and that's where they deployed and have an employee can we commit chemical munitions in order to get that crowd dispersed off the interstate they all ran a different direction some climbed the wall someone back up the ramp someone on to the south side of the interstate come back over and then reconvene back at the capitol grounds that evening or chief of for you mentioned that thank you make and that there were outside influences you you suspected there outside influences what made you think that I was told that Sir so you were told there were other people coming from other places yes to infiltrate this these so copies will perhaps a little bit Sir I would not say anything that's not true that I wasn't provided did did you witness the your your officers don't do Joe witnessed any of these these bricks being thrown by individuals or damage or vandalism or did you witness any that. Your officer. There were a I think chief had alluded to it there were several vehicles without of town plates we had intelligence that was delivered to us to our under cover personnel people that work within a lot of these groups there was information it was given to us to the F. B. I. and a lot of other even a fusion center with the state police that indicated their war some professional protesters outside influences that had made it to their one thing that also I think it's interesting that involved in the whole protest of the committee of the we're about. Majority of the protest out and I've been on this stance I haven't had a day off since may twenty fifth I've been going nonstop and I've been involved everyone of these incidents in and all the protest one thing in the first three nights it was very interesting is the majority the people were very peaceful up until point yeah there were so many other were yelling profanities frustrations and and rightfully so but at recently about nine thirty at night you can see the crowd flip one of me flip. I mean you saw a more aggressive agitated type people starting to show up very organized in the way they were doing stuff very detailed on how they were you could tell they were very much had a plan and what they were going to do we've got very much a lot of video surveillance of them. Working on how they're going to defeat tear gas they are placing cones I'm sure that the chief and comprised some video for you all's well from capital where the place going down the street strategically placed cones normal protesters don't do that they protest peacefully that problem we see an organized effort we see materials being placed. You can tell there was an element that there that they want to confrontation we see this is a problem nation wide I've heard it talked a fair our country has changed we see a more aggressive group of individuals in order to get your message out whether it's anti government anti white anti cop whatever may be their asst gently some frustrated individuals that are out there and and they and they basically feed off this stuff like I said you can see the crowd flip where you saw honestly a majority of our agitated A. came in for Donley white males white females to commend late in the evening not saying it was after American males want that broke into the five a one building yes we watch that we send people over after we got it cleared and got to sustain because the units that I had around that location or officers did did not have protective equipment did not have stuff where I could run them up in their to risk them getting their lives hurt so yes I move them out into we made it safe enough to where I set my tactical units in there the little rock police published what unit was the one that responded and clear the five oh one building and make sure it was safe all right Mr chairman can may one of our officers was injured by a brick so we had an officer actually injured but I want to get to that just a minute you kept of you also stated that the streets were blocked leading up to the capital you said street for block and that you deployed thanks a special response team and the bricks and bottles were thrown at the officers there was a lot of vandalism and crowd would not disperse there was further destruction later that night destruction all of the city's more damage including a big vehicle driving through a target. This was Saturday night. No arrests were made. Correct that your statement. Chief have proper statement no arrests were made that not only that but we we did make an arrest of the target we your arrest individuals respond first target matter fact we got a pursuit and and all that but we did individuals that did the vandalism its target were rest yes Sir we did write a note from test of were arrested okay when when when chemical munitions got it's kinda like flipping on the the you know we are kid growing up you flip on the line the roaches run away I miss same thing when the chemical musicians magicians were deployed people scattered everywhere and at that point officers that are geared up whether state police us north little rock assure with their warm all involved in a year you're not a position go running with an additional forty pounds of gear to try to chase people down our units on the outer perimeter do our best to try to grab a mean when they split up they split up into small groups one or two at a time and run off and I cards that they strategically placed get away vehicles to jump in and get out of there very I mean it's just a organized highly organized they are it's not like a normal things we probably seen you know I know growing up I watched protest for the sixties the fifties in out in the seventies watch all it this is a different different thing they're they're very much organized and and very proficient and how they move around out there their tactics it's a cat and mouse game March chief Humphreys used you stated in your report that there was going to you have heard of that there was going to be protesters show up at the twelfth street station. That you have heard that that were there to make a statement so upon that knowledge that you receive you decided to evacuate the PlayStation absolutely not that was assistant chief fix of Senate who my sister chief of Hey were fix it made that decision yes without telling me did not inform me that he was going to do that has yet to inform me why he did that AT and this let me be the me be very clear no one ever showed up at the twelve three state route I understand that but why would you evacuated police precinct you have to ask him and I'm still trying to get that answer and he has not been able to provide me with that answer at any time during these protests did you ever order little rock please to stand in. One time and when I say stand down there was an incident I believe that Saturday night. Was it was a Sunday night Sunday night I was I was on the ground they were about to send in the US are you upset I'm sitting right here it hadn't got to that level yet a few months awhile later I got a call from my sister T. balance focus it cheap is getting heated up and I said cheap if you feel comfortable I support you in that move I did the initially because I didn't see a need for that but then once I was told that they were ramping up in bottles and things I say yes I support your decision okay we're gonna do this real quickly because we got a meeting here thirty five minutes okay Sunday you said one of your reports on the basically the same thing protest ARE that peaceful then they became very destructive breaking glass throwing objects no arrests no rest greets continued to do damage going inside setting fires you stated that you were not able to apprehend anyone. used in said that they had splintered into different groups like you mentioned the few minutes ago into downtown areas doing more damage no arrests even the old groups continue to do more damage. Money not. Same thing showed up at you and the mayor showed up at the invitation of the protesters he said. Did you ever at anytime. S. one of these protesters that these outside individuals who you suspected were coming in and fill praying their peaceful protest did you ever think about asking them if they would reveal those people so you could maybe get a handle on some of these outside they didn't even know who they were there was you know there they don't know all the people that are coming from the outside they know who's coordinated on their side but they didn't know all those people and that's what I have an Intel for that's what I have entail to provide that information but when you think you described this young group of protesters as nice and peaceful what do you think they would have been willing to identify someone they didn't know it was coming in instructing this peaceful protest Mr to arrive this is double bill I think I just answered that question us that they don't know everyone. When they saw people they would tell us but they're not aware with cruise company and these are fluid incident so I don't think that's a fair question to ask me. I think it's very for question chief offers. Thank you very for question we're gonna go with some other questions right now and they'll come back to you miss we got thirty five members thirty five minutes members so keep your questions brief fifth process possible Representative Richmond you're recognized. Over on this side does thank you Mr chairman. Your yes just to get a little bit more understanding about this uniform command center where was it located Arkansas state police headquarters okay and chief head and did not have anybody there at that particular thing that we did not. Okay he has what about twenty two men at his disposal how many men do you have at your disposal I have six hundred officers did you have a liaison officer at the capitol the at the capitol yes what working with him a liaison officer at the capitol. No I did not okay and again. What I've seen here what concerns me is I'm not interested in who's to blame for walked. It seems like we've got a situation where we got got some serious animosity have you to or any people from either one of your departments come together and have an action after action discussion about what went right what went wrong or anything we are in the process of once these protests completely stop we are my directions to my staff is we're going to get with all the parties involved we're going to do a comprehensive after action report I can share an email with you that I just sent out to my staff regarding that okay you don't have to do that I take your word on this thing but my my point is this. There's animosity between these two departments and it has to go away. That you don't have to like him he doesn't have to like you but the bottom line is you guys right now stuck with each other in some capacity or something and what I've heard here today causes me great concern whether or not you're going to be able to get past that and work together to be sure that all the resources that may be necessary for confronted with something like this again in the future are brought together in a better more efficient way and that's just all I'm charging you with right now and the only other thing is you started to say while ago that we should be ashamed of ourselves about something talking about us well Sir I'm not ashamed of anything I have an open mind here and I'm looking for solutions so no I'm not ashamed of any freaking question or anything else that anybody's asking we want solutions and this is a huge problem throughout our country but that's another discussion we're talking about little rock right now so I appreciate again I would simply appreciate you guys find some common ground getting the trouble behind you and solving these issues and problems Sir what a what I said was that you should be ashamed of the fact that you're allowing this man to sit here and talk negatively about me initially and also the fact that it is you're absolutely right we could do better but of as a police chief with his years of experience he understands unified command and whether he has one offer to their should've been someone from the capitol police. At the unified command that's just meals protocol. Well I would just say that when he takes one man out of twenty two that leaves them more short handed than one man out of six hundred and forty so that is something that you guys should discuss long before that this ever come up as far as who's going to be where and what but now you know and so that's a discussion for the future that we can have absolutely I'm so that is what I'm looking for at this point is you guys be able to get beat on what is happened here because you don't have a lot of nice things to say about him either so I'm not certainly not going to be trying to judge either one of you on the kind words that you shared about each other because that's going to get us nowhere so let's so let's just move on to the future is what I'm asking both of you. To try to do and thank you for your service each and everyone now I don't know why you're shaking your head Sir I think that's a reasonable request. I mean segment is or what you just did no I did not okay my mistake then all right sent of Centralia you're recognized. Thank you Mr chair I just two quick questions want to get a clarified chief the. The I the Intel person that are chief head and referred to that he trust is that something that's an official thing that you know about that there's somebody in Intel who would. feed information to chief had. Senator I don't have a problem with that but I'm asking is that is that is that unofficial things that no it should it should go up the chain of command of and so for him to talk to one of my officers directly and not talk with the assistant chief over that bureau is very That's kind of out of the ordinary and so that information should that information should have been transported through the transfer to the unified command so I don't know why he was talking personally one of my. Officers thank you don't know who that person is I have no idea who I absolutely applaud sharing the nation my only question is do we have it it is a line somewhere where it's it's a part of your property absolutely my own absolutely and senator I will I want to say this to at ninety one that not at any time there was there was some information that was not share with me as I mentioned to the chairman for whatever reason I don't know why it was not shared I'm trying to figure that out so I should have been notified that they were talking to another chief. Unfortunately our I wasn't so that's a concern of mine also. And I just and I want to clarify there is only one one Captain Helton I assume that's cap the Hilton sitting right here there's only one of you and at one point to more than once I think chief head and said he was not willing to share information for with the chief for fear that it might be shared. But he is willing to share. Any information he has with with you chief Helton that's a good thing that he is and that's to cast no aspersions on you or anything else but I I just wanted to be sure that because I know you for a long time you know the smell of the show that we got along is this not a problem. That I just want to be sure I understand that this is a chief this is a captain And if we can trust the captain and not trust the chief or assume you can't you know that's problematic and as I said. Captain is in the snow was that's cast nothing when you but I want this body to think about what that means and also look at what it means thank you Mr chair. Senator I have no idea what is going on but I'm going to find out I hope it gets fixed this. Thank you senator. Of Senator Rapert. Yes thank you Mr chairman I appreciate everybody for being here and I'm I'm over here to your left chief and and officers I will say is again in my question that it seems very much to me in this is not really address two U. chief is dressed everybody that we're all falling prey. To the exact division. That extremist groups one is to fall prey to. And it's it's pretty sad you know we have so far left the nation was pretty unified about what happened Mister Floyd. And I say that because I'm unified with them it was wrong it could have been me could have been my family member in a situation like that so it's just said that were were to point we're truly the division is palpable we have people arguing with each other that didn't cause any of that in and that's set up I want to tell chief of free I'm gonna have to be I'd love to warm up and talk with you about some other things but I'm going to get into my question because I need to hear this from you because my understanding today is that we were talking about security at the capitol law enforcement and the damage of the rights there's a whole lot of other things and and I know mayor Scott we have we have shared the dynastic churches here in little rock and I respect him and all that but I'm really really concerned about what happened here for three days. So. You had mentioned about the fact that you had never seen a lot of things and to you got to little rock a lot of things been said a lot of the frustration you said all that. The fact is that we have never seen the kind of damage in downtown little rock in the damaged or capital that we've seen in the past few days never seen that I I am not aware of if the level of damage that's happened here in the past few days act if somebody's got history on that please present it but never seen that burning the US flag tearing those flags down I've never seen that happen front of our capital. you'd make talked about the right in this is setting up for my question to make sure I'm hearing you right. All the discussion about inciting a riot all of that put that aside. What I'm concerned about is that the right was stopped. That's my concern. That's why I'm upset. A visible sign that there was any law and order going to be enforced truly and forced came when the governor finally took action and set up the unified command I was communicating with the governor urging them to try to stop this as it was unfolding I was on the phone with one to miss going to testify on a minute every night when is glass was knocked out of this building and then they penetrated further the second night and then they burned the Arkansas pharmacy association so when you say and this is where I need you to help me Sir. You took an oath you said in every law enforcement officer takes is so everyone does this that you're going to enforce the law. So when you say that you won't protect property. It won't use force to protect that property. Because you said you're not going to use any kind of force that when danger somebody's lives I'm needing to understand when I hear that. I'm hearing that somebody can go out and damage millions of dollars of property in our city state capitol city. And that you're not going to use ultimate force to stop them if they're doing that so I want you to I'm going to give you an opportunity clarify this because how in the world can you protect the private buildings in private property of people that have done nothing wrong they're innocent law abiding citizens how can you tell them that they can't put a building here do you not understand that people will flee. The city if they can't have confidence that their property is going to be protected. Insurance companies will increase premiums. On people in this city if they're being told that property is not going to be protected. So I need you to clarify that maybe I missed heard you may be you said something you didn't main but when you say that you're not going to use ultimate force. I need you to explain that so how do you intend to protect the capital city and property and enforce the law if you're telling people I'm not gonna use ultimate force to stop you I didn't say that Sir okay we'll explain for okay. What I said was I told a captain Helton asked me what were the directions and I say that we're going to allow people to protest we understand there's going to be so what this this in unrest we understand that we understand it they're going to be items are gonna be broken we we understand that but to the level of using bodily force or weapons to stop someone from damage to property when you really have your your concern is contest is containing and this person that cry out that was our priority I priority was to disperse the crowd get them out of the area. The property you know I'm sorry the property was damaged but you know like captain say it you start putting their hands on protesters and you start wrestling with them somebody to get hurt. It's so my thing is I'm not saying you have a right to protect your property that's that's on the law that's a dozen one statues you have the right to do that what I what I'm saying is the bigger issue with the propuesta with the disruptive of protesters that we were trying to get out of the area. Do I wish we could have protected some of that property absolutely but at that time was that my party absolutely not it was to get those protesters out of there not heard any citizens not heard any officers not have to utilize excessive force or deadly force against those protesters. That was my main proper I did not say that that was an important to me. Life was important to me life of this the this is life a mop officers if it gets to the point of where we talk about what's happened throughout the country we know that we have to elevate of the use of force and I've never told my people not to do that. But I'm what I'm gonna say this and I'm on the record for it there was no reason to get officers hurt our citizens hurt. It was more of a party to this band disrupt those protest Dan to worry about it that's Pacific time windows being broken. I appreciate your answer ms chairman I yield there's a whole lot more to go into but I definitely want to say that I hope that law enforcement would use this as a teachable moment you have to be willing to use force to stop people because they will continue to run over folks of damaged property thank you draper. G. covers I want to follow up just one brief question at what point and how much damage does there have to be in a city such as little rock before you do use force and start resting someone. At what point. Server because every every business regardless of house larger how small it is someone is work years building that business and it is their livelihood it's how they feed their families and take care of the families and without that business and a lot of those are black businesses specially in other places in this country there being destroyed in ruining the lives of many of those systems that is our lab so at what point does there have to be in of damage before you step in and start using I did say deadly force but arresting people. At what point. You have to understand and I'll say this again I totally understand what you all are saying but every incident is is different and I never told my officers not to arrest anyone. Which you all have to understand we weren't the only police department out there it was state police were after several others and I think you have to the desk if you go to be fair eve asked them the same thing that you're asking me but you didn't arrest anyone other than the person that drove to the target that was the first night because it was so fluid Sir people were just move it everywhere and we our main focus was to disrupt that that protest I mean if any police officer do you have. So I don't have all those police officer I have six hundred police officers with with the state police in the number of officers you had little rock are you telling me you could have made one arrest from someone who destroyed through a window of rock through a window so our our main focus was arrested one person our main focus was to get that crowd dispersed now we probably have arrested someone yes but let me ask you this what happens when you go to arrest someone in the entire crowd turns on you based on the fact that in breaking a window and then you have to up your force. That's what I'm trying to that's what I'm trying to say if we have to do it we have to do it that's what I'm saying what point every situation is different and we have supervisor that there if they felt they will say it could safely arrest those individuals I had no problem with that I never told them not to arrest I've got a trust my people out in the field that this is what they feel like they need to do they did not feel that they need to arrest anyone at that time okay helmet they said Stephen buildings on fire and the three thousand people surrounding it one got two hundred officers there what do you do Mr I think just even billing burned one thing I also think that support for the committee there were several people within these protesters that warmed yeah because Arkansas is an open carry state we have several people over multiple days carrying handguns rifles things like that that adds a whole nother dynamic to the situation we've had people care machetes you know and it's not against the law for to do that it's an open carry state they can carry openly and we send that progressively throughout the entire process of this that's a different dynamic that is very fluid and the chief just said things were very very fluid in this entire process when they start breaking windows we try to move people into place it goes it moved you try to move with it but then I find myself with one or two officer standing with a crowd of thirty people you know at what point yes you hate to see property damage but enforcing what we saw here in little rock is nothing compared to what you see in New York City what you've seen in Atlanta it is frustrating and I get it for the business owners I hate it but it's just it what point do we have to overlook the safety of office be able to safely maintain control because as chief had eluded to describe was frustrated they work they were very agitated and when you mix in organized very you know professional protesters that do nothing but live on destruction you know and I don't really call this what we saw rights because right to a whole different ballgame we saw civil unrest is what we saw and that's what occurred. Right you see people turn actively fighting I mean it's chaos not to mention on Saturday night Sunday night and Monday night we had gunshots fired on the capitol grounds from protesters. As a whole nother dynamic to the situation. I mean when I have other officers out there that are in plain uniform that are not equipped with all the luxuries its swat personnel or special response units are ERT teams have I mean I'm not going to jeopardize my went men and women to do run in there for property we we try to maintain best we could you try to moving to make arrests when you can right and it's very very fluid and at I don't know if you've ever been party won the situations but I've over twenty four years is not the first time I've been involved the protest they are very very fluid and where we see now as a whole lot different than the one that I participated in when a check protesters were here back in the day when the when the Stephens building well under farm and I I we don't have a lot of protest at that when we do we know and hamlet on the farm I understand I have the there's something I've noticed in this country we talk about this country not notices for ten years we are losing the ability to enforce our own laws in this country and when that happens I'm not sure I want to live in a country that the navy laws and way and the ability to enforce those laws. You have anarchy you don't have a country anymore. And we we can't work country of law and order and without those without those laws and the ability to enforce them. We have nothing I totally agree with you Mr chairman and there's nothing more frustrating to law enforcement to sit there and watch people break windows and not be able to act it's just like it's just like a you know nobody hates bad cop more than a good cop I can promise you that I agree and and to be able to sit there watch destruction go one specially for me at the command post having to watch it and see the windows broken out and come back through the at the end of the night and drive through and see all the damage I go home instead about man what do we have done better and I I beat myself up over day in and day out but it's unfortunate we live in a different world now the world has changed right before our eyes it's going to continue to change and it's unfortunate hopefully would legislators we continue to evaluate the loss we can continue value wait open carry we continue to evaluate how damage is done or how how we deal with extremist groups all within our own country I mean it is a challenge it has definitely changed law enforcement in my twenty four years it is changing rapidly it's going to continue to change some of and hope for the better better but yes Sir for the hundred us because we can't go much farther than that from I totally agree with you Sir love you're recognized. On Wall thank you. So A couple of of couple things that recognized and we're about to get real on comfortable here because. This is what I see in this is what I've seen in this is something that we need to look at legislature. I'll I'm no captain Hilton I've been known for years great gas. But when you have a cheese. They contact the captain the one though does not contact the chief. That looks like a race issue. Know whether it is or not. That's what it looks like. And we can sit up here and we can look all around it. But I'm telling you right now. That looks like a race issue. I'm not call anybody a races but that's what it looks like. And when you're in the city the the chief offers the and. And that's that's what it seems like that's very uncomfortable because now. Because I heard chief I heard she did say that they cannot he could not trust. Chief offer with the information but he trusted captain helped. I want us to really think about that. I really do because that right there on its face and when that out the extent it is see in. You all we there is something that has to change. Yes I wanted to point that out but then number two I want to ask because we're talking on property and and I heard chief conference you know I'll be in front of sting any in trying to explain so I'll go the captain Helton or I'm gonna go to. Mister Ellis and the teller and this. If we were to head use deadly force alternate for so whatever you wanna call. And we would have actually winning in. And say for instance somebody with a guy shot and killed that night protecting property. What do you think what happened in the city little rock. I believe bill made it worse than what it is what it was I know that she'd been Cappy help explain out fluid situation was not trying to use the same words but he was that we get people branching off in different areas of the city we had to use the R. limited manpower to cover the entire city it was just a capital would just downtown little rock it was the entire city from one end to the other so we had a responsibility the chief had a responsibility to make sure the entire city was like that not if it came down us using deadly force to stop a person breaking a window right you will all that would have been put aside it been affected we use della force to against a person committed misdemeanor arrest so course it would make the situation a lot worse that would be the focal point if that happens. So how much damage do you think we would to suffer the if if that would have been the case. I ask any of you gentlemen how much damage do you think would happen if we were if if someone would have use deadly force ought to be forced how much how much more damage will with a hand. Well I'll tell you right now this this this just be honest with the climate ever since the blacks are incident. I think we would have some the calories and we would have a larger of mass burning. Property in this city. I'll tell you right now and I I will say because I met with protesters the mayor met with protesters our other offices met with protesters we think we were able to calm that down but if we would have shot someone use do last deadly force based on property damage. This city with a bird. I'm I'm I'm telling you this city with a bird and I think that's what people are not looking at so yes I made the call did not do that because I did not want this city to burn or people to die officers to get your based on property. And I don't apologize for that. Okay alright thank you for what. She shall first what if you had been shot but when the protesters at not died do you think the reaction of the city would be the same as if one of you had shot one protester absolutely because I have that upon the city if you had been shot or yeah absolutely with what I'm intent Ellison well if I may with the climate with the climate of the city and the harsh this that I'm be treated with them out absolutely that's not what happened in St Louis when retired police chief was black was killed in a right there was no outrage. I can't talk about saying was but I'm telling you tell you what what happened here based on the current climate. I know it would it would been damage if I would be absolutely absolutely art center Johnson you're recognized. See you in. You should be all. Thank you again. Thank you Mr chairman of. Mister Rabb. Heard enough red hearings here today that probably open a fish market. But first I want to attend Elson of. Your father was a gentleman who was shot and killed by an off duty officer in his apartment is that not correct. First of all right I want I want to give you my condolences and tell you that that's one of the saddest things I've ever seen in the city and I prayed for your family and I only say that to point out that bad things happen to good people and I add again I have cried over that situation that's so sad so please accept my condolences over that because of the fact that you're still wearing the blue and and and helping protect our city means so much to me thank you up. Chief how free of. I understand that sometimes the best defense is a good offense and your obviously you didn't have those thirty some odd years without learning how to to do those types of things but I can tell you that when you. Respond the way you did to Chief head and a lot more questions come up then that answers and there's been a lot of finger pointing and I'm appoint finger and everyone saying this that that man right there further the holding the gavel. He's gonna find out the truth he will find out who's lying and he's telling the truth so you know faster seat belts everybody you know this isn't over and I I I you know some of you all I just met others I'm no longer but I can tell you that that Senator Gary Stubblefield as well get to the bottom of this and there were some people might not like the result of it and I think that see my friend senator RAPERT he mentioned that the full effect this is going to have on insurance premiums for everyone lives in little rock if you've got a zip code that those those actuaries they're not going to even stop permit they're just gonna look at numbers and see property damages say your your rates are going up so there's there's a cost to people there's a loss of business loss of jobs that's coming from falling back and doing nothing and so while there's been different testimony here today about this I can assure you that we're going to get to it one way or the other it might take awhile but we will get. The truth and I have one I appreciate you coming at we thought last week you would not appreciate you coming testifying but Iraq I can give you this little bit of advice you know you call our capitol police chief a liar then we're going to get to the bottom of it in and if we maint none of us may lack the fallout from it but. In I have been coming to this capital my whole life. Of my parent my bed proposed to my mom behind the cap on the taxi I was a little kid when I for active member when I first came up here probably five or six years old or younger. And I've never seen. My capital desecrated like it was and you can talk about how you're going to save lives and you don't want to escalate all that you made a decision on the ground and I respect that that officers are no say they're perfect but they have to make a decision in the heat of the moment and I respect that and I appreciate your candor on that but. While we want all people's property protected and honored this is a special place I know you didn't grow up in Arkansas but this is a special place to us this is sacred. Place. And. Our government our state we're not perfect we got colleagues here that it in order to the penitentiary and there's bad eggs in the legislature just like there's bad eggs in police department. But. We Levin respect this place. And when someone writes you know if your system on my capitol building then you just came after me personally. And I can assure you we will find out the truth we will get to the bottom of it but but I do preach appreciate all of you coming and and and the skews me thank you Mr chairman it's all ahead Senator Representative rye you're recognized. Thank you Mr chairman. Chief you know they talk about three thousand folks here at one point and then we cut this thing down to a thousand. Not guess that's including friendly protesters and also people that do damage together. What if you had five hundred folks. That were there that were damage possible damage causing papal. And you said we had six thousand policemen. And how may I made aware of it and the other we have six hundred offices which way yes they were you get six hundred officers. And you had much possibility of five hundred folks they could do damage. Just can understand why one set broke loose. I'm almost killing folks I'm talking about putting people in their place. Put handcuffs on folks who put him in jail. May maybe maybe I'm wrong but I just feel ACT. A conventional bear well I appreciated but until you're out there see in that actually be in in in the middle of that the main focus is getting that crowd dispersed and if individuals refused to leave you give them opportunities to leave that's part of procedural justice you give people you give in the morning that's why we give people the warnings of the dispersed this person then that's when we start dispense the card that's with a chemical agents are being dispensed but you give people opportunities in this like that's the the the captain say when those groups later the and that means that you've got one up to officers deal with five six seven people so it comes down to is it better to just let him get out of the area comment down or is it better to get in there and go hands on with individuals and so those supervisors in the offices on the street basically I may focus was just get those individuals out of there I'm sorry for the damage to the capital I never told any amount officers not to utilize the force needed I never said that but they felt that they did need to do that the main focus is a bill so fluid the main focus was get those individuals out of there and like I said we have an offer that was injured we have people going all throughout downtown we have people going all over there was supposed to be a schedule ride at the at the outlet malls that park plaza so we had officers everywhere so we we did the best that we could at that particular time to ensure that nobody was injured I'm sorry property got damaged I'm so sorry of but you know nobody died. This list this make that the but the key here nobody died no officers died no citizens died. Maybe someone didn't get arrested that night but we did make a rest the following nights but I think yell of missing the point nobody died. Nobody lost their lights wise that sold. I mark my question is why is that not it's wise the wise property more an important if somebody not die and not also is not getting hurt and citizens not getting hurt us not being accused to be A murders wives property damage more important in that. That's what I'm having a hard time on property damage is important but you know when you that this kind of stuff go on I mean is going on all across the United States someone's not standing up and doing what they're supposed to do that's my opinion that's when we are policemen is to keep things and and and line in these folks are just coming and all these different towns and they're doing what they want to do and they're going to continue to do this or what do we get a Harrell winstar sticking folks in jail and putting people penitentiary time for what they're doing the represented right of if I can elaborate a sum to on the protesters a lot of times the damage to property damage that we were getting notified up no officers witnessed anybody doing the criminal act the places like bank of the Ozarks Armos bank even at the five oh one building and we had our crime scene personal come out. Great scraper whatever evidence we can get we are working with those entities to obtain video surveillance and then our detective work those cases to try to identify anybody that was involved in those but a lot of that weather was down on the on victory over off would light where some of those buildings we had no officers that witness anybody that did the damage so for us just a blankly go up and grab a bunch of people's will come up for property. We can't that's false arrest you know we can't I can't say that if you were walking not grabbing you up in your under arrest guess is going to have to answer for that not only court meet but then you're going to turn around assuming federally for false arrest we have to make sure we have visible eyes on a lot of times we were getting a lot of the damage that was done second hand they're dead they're windows get broke out over here we sent officers over there nobody was around we have no witnesses we look for cameras we would hold a spot into we can notify crime scene and they came out the next morning did their stuff a lot of that would like I said it was so fluid. It's hard to lay hands and then when everything happened down the bank of the Ozarks we were in the process of deploying officers at third and spring because we thought they were going to move within the crowd shifted back and came back west up capital street so they move we had to re remove ourselves back up to Capitol Chester what we deployed assets and by that time state police that already introduced gas they splintered out we got word they were headed our headquarters I move resources down our headquarters in our communications because frankly if our communications facilities attacked we lose everything we lose all radio traffic all right Representative rye we we're gonna have to we've got three more and then we're done here because we've got two more people to come before this committee rooms like to me we got three of three people left so we're gonna take two minutes each of the first one is represented della Rosa. Thank you Mr chair So I have a different question first of all I appreciate everything you guys do and I know that we're all saying that and and chief hadn't in the back as well and I know that sounds very disingenuous when all we do is criticize at the same time that we say thank you and why didn't you do this so I'm not gonna do that I don't know what it's like for any of you I I've never been in that profession I don't want to be in that profession it's it's very difficult so thank you with no criticism to anybody but I do have a question because it seems to me. That the real issue here that were arguing over isn't everything that we've been arguing over it's the thing that we keep leaving out of this. And that's the agitators that are coming in because I I I saw exactly which you saw I've watched a lot of the video a lot of that was live and I saw the exact same thing about the time it gets dark there's a shift a palpable shift prior to the sun going down people are praying and they're singing and it it is truly a peaceful protest. The sun goes down and it it ships. So if you have a view or or some kind of evidence that it is an outside group because you said you had under cover officers within the crowd. My question is you probably can answer it now that is going forward is. That's truly I think what's causing the damage they're taking. an upset situation and they're taking a crowd and they are agitating it even further and they are exacerbating the passions that people have and we all know crowds do really really stupid and sometimes very awful things and these people have that point you know I don't know if it's in our cure what they're what they're ultimately going for they sure are doing and all grants and that so they're taking people that wouldn't normally behave this way. And and. Making them act in a way they they wouldn't do normally how do we stop that how do we keep people from taking a protest that has a point and in making it become destructive anarchist chaotic how how do we fix that because it seems to me to be what's really driving all this destruction. With the call opportunities that's what they do in their professional opportunities to go from city to city their own payrolls A go from city to city to agitate you'll see some of the same individuals I think the statues probably need to be stronger I think that the you know the Intel needs to be stronger and police chiefs and state representatives and local officials need to sit down and get an understanding of what these protests are going to be about and once they find out that there's a potential of these individuals coming from the outside a strong message these B. C. maybe a document from the governor maybe a document from the mayor that basically they will be prosecuted to the fullest of the law so I think it's so many different things is not just one it's so many different these things are changing thirty two years of this I've never seen anything like this you would tell me that police a police department would be barred down you know and and I with the bill I'm going to believe that if you tell me thirty years ago that a police substation in Seattle was completely taken over I wouldn't believe that but these are the times worry and and so I think it's just better better communication and sharing information having those partnerships and stronger laws. I would your time's up hall come on man I have not talked this entire time. Thirty seconds all right one question I would like to make that request that as you guys move forward and chief hadn't as well into the Arkansas state police everybody that's reviewing this going for the times have changed. Eight eight you've just propose that that we we could do something on our side of of the fence over here to help stop this. Please make recommendations to us as as everybody heads into the January session for what we could do legislatively that might help stop these agitators because to me that seems to really be the crux of the whole issue here is is a very small group that's just making things so so much worse that thank you Mr chair thank you represent the world wide question of represent the board. Thank you Mr chair Thank you for your service I do mean that. I believe in personal responsibility and the rule of law we've already established there's been a shift in what would have happened thirty two years ago versus today so my question is more along the lines of. What can we do is a body to re and still the moral code of yesterday and I wanna hear that from your your perspective is is officers would have you seen what what has happened over your thirty two year span or there the span of all your and that's what I'd like to thank. Represented board I think one element that is changed tremendously is the influx of social media. that is an animal that has evolved over the last five years to where now it's a. At a situation to where. Ten fifteen years ago were the average person could sit down and we could talk of one another face to face now we're dealing with generation of people who cannot talk face to face the only type with their thumbs so which to me. Puts a lot of it misinformation out there be a social media a lot of people don't know fact from fiction if I have a disgruntled you toward something it only takes a few minutes for I can find somewhere else somebody else across the country that might feel same way I do it for you know it's force multiplier we have to do a better job I think not all from law enforcement I think from legislative it from all different professions we've got to do a better job of listening to one another I think somewhere along the line that's the most important communication skill is listening I think people forgot how to listen and we don't understand those frustrations with certain groups for having it takes away from everything because we're so willing to point the finger sometimes I think we just listen and have limited constructive conversation just because I just disagree with you doesn't mean I don't hate you. I mean it doesn't we can have thoughtful disagreements and find a way to come to a common ground in the middle I think that's what we gotta do a better job educating our our our into our schools faith based organizations mental health the mental health system and St Arkansas was broke a lot of things we deal with this mental health issues and technically from a law enforcement standpoint we're not equipped to deal with those issues as much as we try we're just not able to race relations it's it's it's been a problem and and it's going to continue to be a problem but I think we got smart of people out there to try to help mitigate it to keep it from growing like it has to tear down the groups. That's just the new normal I mean they they're highly funded there well funded they're highly organized their kids that are not dumb these people are smart they research they do their homework they're like little small groups that they're very very educated and how they do something so it's just I think we've got to continue to learn from one another and we got to communicate that is the most important piece all right. We were. Representative five to get one last question. Yes captain yeah I heard you speak about these groups well organized and everything. Who are they. Well I I think you have some very localized groups that are wannabes there's no doubt there was some anti for the influence we seem what they're like across the country but then there's we had paid individuals that are paid protesters a come in here that there are offered up up to two hundred dollars to come in and raise Cain all day long so that I think you have all sets within various groups throughout the city we know there's other groups that were white supremacy groups that we showed up down here to try to agitate we know there was uh I think on both sides both races there's African American groups that are very much you know entranced interviews on certain things so it's it it goes across most of the house so I mean we we saw various groups that were that were present. Thank you yes Sir our. Was I one thing that we're gonna let you got dismiss you guys. And I hope of marriage does listen to this. Waiting list to it later chief offers I live in a place where I meet people from all of the United States and a meeting on a regular basis everyday and talk to a. You want alarm tell me. They tell me they have a list of cities that they will not stop at. Because the city's our on site and if they do have to stop there they stop for one night and then they move on. And guess what little rock one of the city. We have a wonderful opportunity if this moment to change all that. And and make it make little rock a place it is safe for the people of little rock in the visitors and if people want to come here and visit Market Street we have a lot to offer but we can't with all we can't do it if we have an unsafe environment if people are afraid to come here the fear of losing their lives that's got to change. And it today's a good place to start. Was read about will he was right about one thing I could you read a lot of things but when he said we took got out of this country many years ago we took got out of a classroom of our government and even out of our families we've been on a downward spiral ever since. I want I just want to thank you again for being here thank you for coming and asking these questions of. We may have you back that's fun thank you. All right we've got to a couple more I don't know if we were to work man which can be very short Mr we're gonna have Mr a. Parks for sparks. Welcome let you have about five minutes. If you only reduce yourself and you state your position. Good morning members of my name is Chris Burke some attorney here in little rock I know we're going past lunch so I'll be brief I appreciate your time here this morning the reason I'm here is I represent to the assistant chiefs and the little rock police department chief Hayward Finks and chief Alice fork and I'll also represent a group of about twenty other officers that I call rank and file and the reason my clients ask me to be here today is because I I think this is an important issue and I applaud you represent love I think there's some some larger issues in it's important to name those and discuss those I think that's an important role of the legislature to not only get the facts about what happened if the capital that it sent Johnson is is rightfully concerned about but also to look at the underlying overarching issue so I I think this is been a great discussion in I was proud to to sit here even though it was combative I have two other additional points just very briefly for your consideration and what I would ask you in these two points is I think it is appropriate I know were feelings are raw rightfully so but I would ask this committee to to continue on this topic I think is appropriate for this committee to set another agenda meeting specifically on this topic to hear more of the fax whether that's from my to clients the two assistant chiefs whether that's from the people who testified here today I think it's important role of the legislature to have that oversight not just for the specific issue of what happens in little rock but also for the broader issues representing flowers brought up represent love brought up represent a Scott brought about I think those issues tied together and I think it's important to do that but just very briefly the two points I want to make I wanted this clear what chief Humphrey testified to was a stand down order the to. Klay contradicted the state police and also the capitol police that should be concerning to the legislature you all are in charge of not only the funding for the capitol grounds the safety of your selves this committee but also all the school children to come to the capital so anytime you have to agencies that are at odds like that that should be concerning to you all know should follow up in in chief Humphrey to his credit admitted that he said he did give a stand down order at one point in that order conflicted the order of the state capitol police and the state police and to be direct about it that is why governor Hutchinson issued his executive order chief Humphrey testified that he went to the command center every day unfortunately I thought that testimony was misleading I thought she Humphrey was very combative unfortunately he said shame on you and just to be very direct about it these issues are so wrapped up in in all the other issues as they should be so I I want to recognize my for the privilege and saying that it can who I am and my background that I want to cast judgment on him but it was was not the type of de escalation you expect from law enforcement of the chief of police for little rock or any city should not common yell the legislature and say shame on you and that's just my perspective but I I just thought that is another reason why you all should look into this more the other thing I'll say just very briefly if you want to get into solutions I thought there some great questions about solutions one is that you have systemic problems where agencies may not cooperate and then you have personnel issues where the particular people in charge of agencies may not work together I think it's very important for you all to discern whether this is a systemic issue or whether this is a personnel issue and what I would present to you is this is not a systemic issue the state capitol police in the little rock police in Arkansas state police have systemically worked very well together what has happened here and what led to the pictures you saw is a personnel issue in my opinion in my clients opinion so it's not that the state capitol. Police in the state police and the little rock police don't work too well together they do this is a personnel issue I think you saw that today in the in the personalities frankly of the people who testified in a again my client's position certainly they have a position is that it's the the specifically the the leadership of G. from which account for was not present in the planning ahead of time he was not engage day today in the unified command he testified that he went by there each night in again I just I think this committee needs to get the truth of that Leslie chief offer did testify that when the criminal mischief was occurring on the street in the burning of the street was having they did move in if any gave that stand down order a I thought that was accurate and what I thought was inaccurate was the false question that he presented will be presented to the committee was well is this a question of life or property and let me say when you say this is to to those that know me well as someone who it is a committee Democrat and also someone who thinks they care a lot about issues of racial justice that's in the side I try in my perspective the testimony from chief all free was inflammatory and misleading on that point to really get at the truth we need a reconciliation we need honest direct conversations about what happened without agendas and we need healing and to do that you don't do that by throwing out buzz words like KKK or anti for or blaming your assistant chiefs you have a very direct honest and real conversation in your empowered as a legislature to do that so I I hope you do that but it was just it was very disappointing to me the chief continue to engage in buzz words like sign downtown things that actually happened in the were revealed and there there are real fires in the city every day there there is a people crying out for help and not just the city but all of the state and these issues in their porn issues and to have that devolve into an eagle fest between two chiefs that you saw today. It was just very disappointing to me because these are very serious issues and it's it's it's a personnel issue is what you're saying here and there's there's a way to fix a personnel issue in my perspective but I think that it's just so unfortunate real leadership means to look at the cause of this property damage. And it needs to look at the leadership and their actions it doesn't need to engage in the kind of political speech that we saw today so I appreciate your time happy to answer any questions proof that I have been here for awhile. Part Mr Burke thank you we will be bringing you back thank you senator we have several questions but we're not gonna have time to ask any questions. We've got a meeting in here in ten minutes then this friend got to be clean so. Now there's no more questions. I said there's no more questions Senator Elliot. That is not that is something that is not gonna be brought up in this committee meeting Senator Elliot. In this Senator Elliot if I may and. What. Come to order of. Mister price I apologize to you because we are going to have to have you back because it deals with the of an issue of censorship. from outside groups in our state I promise you we will have you back with the little rock opera and I apologize that we read time which departure excused and the meeting is adjourned.