Public Health, Welfare and Labor Senate and House

Well. All right I want to call the meeting back to order. And appreciate shall be in here again the day was short short time to Schedule this so I appreciate you all coming back today to finish this agenda. So we we may modify the way we're going through the agenda a little bit because some people have things they need to go to that our presenters so we may modify that a little bit otherwise we'll try to stick to the schedule. Senator Irvin did you have any comments. No I just I appreciate this members on a we are trying very hard to utilize this building and this regime in order to prevent the In order to prevent that. I'd just a constant maintenance CFR staff member or if we can try right now to utilize the space in this room as much as possible I think this is going to help our PLR staff and the folks that are committing cleaning and all of that so we apologize for the scheduling issues but we're going to try to work that out to where and but I also I'm not going to limit public health and we're gonna talk Representative Ladyman and I've talked about our scheduling going forward for public health committee meetings I don't want to limit ourselves to only a two hour three hour time spot so we're going to try to schedule our meetings to where if we do have to do this that'll be plans and people will know and anticipate that that will happen and we have the ability to read go over to the next day to make that easier for folks so and with that I just appreciated recommend back we have a lot of import information we're not able to get to because of. the work and we're working on future meetings soon for those really important updates from the department of health and commerce and you Amos thank you. Thank you. also we we did set up assume meeting so if we have members that are joining remote leave by zoom and if you have questions you know if you can send those to us we'll try to respond get your response for you. Okay so again as I said we're going to modify the agenda a little bit so what I'd like to start off with is to have a doctor deal hate it come up in the. Talk a little bit or answer questions about the covert nineteen virus and were read on that. So if you all would entities yourselves for the record. Yes Sir doctor Jennifer Delahaye with the Arkansas department of health. That Gilmore part of health. Okay and I don't know the bill a with the one to say anything at the beginning or just take questions the main reason I wanted you to come back is because some members were gone yesterday when you were presenting so I want to give them the opportunity to ask questions so did you have any comments you want to make well I I can give a just a brief update for the cases that we had yesterday so we're up to a total of nine thousand seven hundred and forty cumulative cases this year we had three hundred and fourteen new. Cases reported yesterday and that gives us a total of two thousand nine hundred and fifty five active cases that means cases that are people who are sick at this present time. So and I can take questions okay. Representative Bentley you're recognized. Thank you chairman thank you doctor delay for come back today and thank you for all the hard work we appreciate you immensely done a great job so I just had some questions from constituents in from a sale about a report that came out blue was yesterday for the World Health Organization that coronavirus patients without symptoms aren't driving the spread of the virus that they are not the ones that we really need to warning it back I would really like your comments on that report that came out from the so I I was aware of that in the news I haven't taken time to review the literature but apparently the World Health Organization is walking those comments back now so I'm aware that the annals of internal medicine which is my a professional group that have has found that forty to forty five percent of the cases are a symptomatic and we know that this virus acts very much like other viruses in that you can have pre symptomatic and a symptomatic spread you can imagine if it's a symptomatic it's a little difficult to determine how much it's being spread but the World Health Organization apparently is saying that the A. M.. Used words that were probably not a appropriate to call it very rare so I'm looking for more information it's you know news that's involving and I you know I'm kind of a skeptic I need to go and look at the medical literature not just the news reports I would definitely appreciate your response on that thank you I'll be happy to do that okay thank you. Senator been you're recognized. Thank you I just have a lot of questions I'm right here hi doctor tell Hey thank you so much for being here and it's important discussion that we really need to have on this topic because. I think there's just a lot of confusion and. Right now because of what it is they're seeing that people are seen you know people gathering very close together and different scenarios but then we have restrictions in place as well so it's those two things aren't jiving together thank and so now I'm not sure if you have a comment about that but I mean I come from the health world so I understand you know that they need to be able to reduce you getting sex so that you're not spreading it to other people but there just seems to be kind of the government's acting one way but then we're allowing you know these large groups without any plans without any permits without anything and. You know you have to. You have to walk the talk he can't just say the words you have to also act consistently so you know as we are re opening thank you we we are hearing a lot from our constituents that this this isn't making sense so I don't know how you would comment on that that that's my first question and and I have a follow up on the the regional approach. Well and I know that the health department has Directives for large gatherings and indoor venues an outdoor venues and The if the outdoor venues are going to be over fifty people are indoor also and they need to have a plan that is submitted and reviewed I think one of the challenges those there's other venues that don't fall under that parks and public spaces and we will depend on the people of Arkansas to follow the recommendations to a social distance and wear cloth face coverings but that's a very difficult thing because in many ways that's a culture change and it's not something that can be easily required or mandated so if it's an undefined public space that correct that's outdoors yes and there is no requirement for any type of plan to be submitted yeah correct sentencing something that's a big a big difference between indoor and outdoor and understanding that I'm actually gonna deferred to represent of Johnson about the map situation on regional because we've discussed the house but I am very concerned about the maps that were played put out and for the regional and phased in approach and I wanted to discuss that because to me you're lumping and counties particularly. In different areas that are with other counties and economically. These counties are going to have a better chance of survivin than these others and so amend we discuss it there are different regions if you look at the health care coalition map you look at you know I don't understand why those maps couldn't be followed first as a whole new regional map That doesn't make sense to me and I've heard from a lot of folks in my area particularly about that so is it can't is that still in discussion as to what those maps look like regionally is there any opportunity for us as lawmakers and people that represent our areas to be able to chime in and give you all and recommendations or are input about how that's going to take place because. You know to me there's a disconnect between what we're hearing in our constituents and us being able to give input and then the decisions that are being made and I'm trying to bridge that gap because I got the existing and and we're not being trying to be rude disrespectful from your perspective because you're the scientist and you're looking at the medical data and information but we also have a job that we have to do in order to help figure this out as policy makers and the legislative branch of government. Yes your points are well taken and we do invite your input and want to hear it because you have the heirs of your constituents in ways that you someone like myself at the Arkansas department help would not so it's very important that we have your input and I agree there are different ways to approach that problem and that we should pick the best of all solutions not just a solution that someone comes up with because it seems good to them yeah well I appreciate that I guess for the record I would just states that I would preferred the map that is based on the current healthcare coalition type map that they they're seven different regions I think represent Johnson can better say that but I'm supportive of that yeah and that goes along and see if the hospital regions yes that's what we're talking about yet that and that map makes sense to me and so anyway again that's something that I just feel very very strongly I think a regional approach is the right thing to do I don't disagree with that but I just. Wanted to make sure we're able to be heard thank you thank you. And before I go to the next question to add something to what Centerton said we've talked about this of we may need to have meetings more often And the reason we discuss this is because a lot of the discussion about covert nineteen is is being done in other committees. And you you just said that it would be good for you to have feedback from us and the way you get that is us asking questions in the you know you all are and every one of our meetings so we need that we might need to have more regular meetings so that that flow of information can go back and forth because these other committees that are having meetings the always have the agencies there that need to be there so that's something that we will discuss some we might start scheduling even more meetings A that would be welcomed because I think you made a very good point is that you're not in a position to get that feedback from the grass roots. Like we are yes I agree with that they know where we live and believe me they come. So and that's good that's good would you be doing that. Senator hammer you're recognized thank you Mr chair. Let me ask you about the process is so for taken out to the conversation that's going on now up to this point. How have you. Measured the decisions that you've made. That are associated with the directives that are been given. Without any legislative input so far. So I'm a little unclear at which decisions are you referring to directives are given and put out. What would appear with no legislative involvement up till now unless we as legislators get calls from our constituents that don't understand or maybe disagree with the directives and then we call you which means you all get a hundred and thirty five calls into your offices and then I'm just curious have you you haven't received any legislative input up till now. Other than those. Other than being approached by individual Are crafted developed the of health department staff working on them. Attempt to go to the stake holders and so if it's a sports one for example delegate to the sports associations or the organizations that are involved in doing that I don't believe for that one in particular for example we went through the legislators to do that we also work and get input from through the economic recovery task force and their various members to go to their constituents and the people they represent so we have been getting stakeholder in community input but it has not necessarily been through a legislator but that is a good idea especially if we know that legislators have a particular interest or expertise in a certain area that would be of of of an appropriate way to do that. Okay and let me give you I think part of what contributes to the problem that we're dealing with this legislators is I'll for example now got a call spent quite a bit time on the phone this morning was somebody is trying to run a softball baseball event and they have certain guidelines has been given but then you've got a major water theme park in central Arkansas won't name because it's not my district that is not having to comply with the master requirement the way the softball and baseball teams are having to required to it and part of what I think creates the tension in the environment is there seems to be a lack of consistency of application in the to respective environments are both outside some just wondering. What what goes in the thought process as far as when you give a directive. That is announced to try to bring consistency among the then use their maybe both outdoor venues. Well when we and develop a guidance or a directive and we get input from the stakeholders and then other people we try really hard to make sure it's as consistent as it can be but there are things that we miss or things that we don't consider that we should have and even after they have been published and so forth we have made some adjustments and we are wanting input at but. With the time allowed in the ability to. Address the volume then I'm I know there are things that we have missed and tried to correct and if there are additional things were more than willing to look at them and see what else we need to do to make it reasonable and doable and consistent okay well I would just add to the chairs what they've said already I think if legislative involvement on a larger scale such as through committee even if even if requires me more often if that's what it takes whatever takes because were receiving the the brunt of the decisions that are being made that we have no involvement in those decisions being made and maybe you called legislator and get an opinion I don't know but would only just add on to what the chair said that moving forward more legislative involvement in a larger scale I think would help you all help us and certainly remove some of the confusion and anxiety that exist out in the public so thank you. Yes Senator hammer I agree with what you're saying and I believe the problem is that we haven't had that mechanism to to make that communication yeah I think we will start meeting more often share and the other thing if it would help members you could direct questions to the chairs. And we could maybe organize those because you might you might get for calls on the same subject from four different members of this committee were if senator Irvin I have that information we can kind of summarize that make it a smoother more efficient operation so we would be willing to do that. And could you have something to say. Yeah I think to and I do appreciate all those different people that are being that are serving right now that are on the different economic recovery task force they've done great work I think that there's they've been really great groups of stake holders that are just doing everything they possibly can the difference is that we're a liked it. And so because we're elected we have a level of accountability. That may or may not exist for people that are appointed. Same is true with different board of trustees or commissions or whatever it's a different level so our response and that's what I think makes us in a more difficult position because. We are it accountable to those that vote for us that we represent they because they alike does they expect us and we are their voices so even if we don't have an area of expertise our area of expertise are the citizens of Arkansas I get it does that make sense and I'm I'm just trying to have a great thoughtful dialogue and conversation about it because. That's really our expertise. We don't we don't all wait we we have to be experts and everything because we represent all that diverse city in our districts and all those people and all of their issues and so that's where a lot of frustration is coming when it when you create policy it's so much better when you have a cohesiveness and the ability to hear because you may not hear something from other people other than those of us that are hearing from these very grass roots folks you know that we represent so. That I think it's just the big difference and why I think we have to have more public health committee meetings to really flesh out a lot of these things thank you. Representative Wardlaw you're recognized. Thank you Mr chair earlier are late late last week I guess it was on Saturday asked me the question to you guys from a constituent I had no one no one on the state requires mass to be where worn in restaurants but not in child care we're newborns and other vulnerable since garden young folks are present and the response I got back was I'm gonna get another response and I never have gotten one in today's Tuesday so can you respond to that. Representative I apologize I did not get back with you on that yet but I that's my fault I apologize for that so do we have a response for wild child care centers are not being forced to wear a mask and we're having where men are restaurants and other public places me goes back to the baseball. Question while ago I mean it the requirements don't seem to line up to a common sense and at some point common sense has to come into this and I mean if you're dealing with your infants is no different than dealing we are elderly we need to be protecting those populations so why are we not requirements mask in those areas. Let me. To tell you the truth I don't know why we're not it seems to me that we should and I will look into it because like you said they are just as vulnerable. And Of course children different we wouldn't require them to wear a mask the Asian at but that care givers and those people coming from the community to provide care it seems to me it would be reasonable to Rick choir them to wear a mask in that setting so I will look into it the day care owner told my constituents that they would not be wearing a mask into the state requires it so evidently the guidelines you guys have had put out for day cares does not require the daycare workers to wear masks so they they withdraw their children from this day care and they're not working where they should be and the drawing unemployment because they have no daycare for these kids and if we had a mask folks would feel a lot more comfortable to put their kids in a daycare I agree in that a lot of that comes under the department of Human Services and we've been working closely with them so let me look into that and see where that is amend Senate arms right you guys need to take a lot of input from us I mean it goes back to the football guidelines that are out right now and none of it matches and it's almost like we've got. People out there to what one sport over another or they want one thing over another because the guidelines are relaxed in those areas so we we need some consistency we need some common sense we need we need to be able to our constituents just to think about it and it be the way that the rigs are because it is there is none with the way you have it written at the moment. Representative love you're recognized for a question. Thank you Mr chair and actually I was going to start talking about the train the in the trans and what we see in ensuring that this is a more interesting conversation in regards because. It out I will I want to try to understand what you over San regards to the feedback because I want to ask would actually would change the Arkansas department of health. in regards rules of rigs that they're putting out if they have more input from us because I I guess I I wouldn't understand some I want to understand if you all can elaborate on that that would help me better understand about the input given and what would actually change because that would be my question after after you off responded that that will be my question adopted Delahaye because. I'm not seen and what should or would change it should be just the best policy but represent let me give you an example okay and and it's probably you know you live in different environments bigger city than I do the different regional at but there are a group of business owners up in northeast Arkansas that are organizing because they feel like that there's too much restriction on them. And they don't lose their businesses and they feel like they should not be under the same guidelines as northwest Arkansas who right now is having all the cases in in in the cases up there have gone down recently so that's an input that they need this is a large group of business people that are organizing because they feel like they're not being heard individually. So they they want they want to get that input to get to you all so that maybe you can be looked at maybe policies can be changed without affecting the numbers going up that makes sense okay so within that we know of all right so this is it is that the same thing senator Irvin date or do you have a different take on what is that. You know I think there's a lot of things for instance you know charges aren't you know there are different plans in their churches that are going back in that are not going back and there's not a lot of consistency but. When people go to like a big box store there's a lot of people in those places. Right there's no restrictions or there's they're counting people but it's packed you know so you hear from concessions all the time wait a minute I can't go to the rainbow cafe on the square in Mountain View Arkansas but I sure can go to home depot in Conway when I can sure go to Lowes and I can sure go to Walmart why can't this mom and pop shop which is a small business by can't day operates and they're losing their business and and we can't afford to lose those small businesses in the smaller towns because they're like the lifeline in the backbone of the small towns and so there's a lot of frustration and they just don't understand the difference because. You know they're doing everything possible to make sure that they follow everything but there just seems to be a different standards to be quite Frank and they don't understand that and what I'm afraid of is that they'll just throw everything out the window and just so you say I'm not going to do this and I don't want that to happen because we do need to prevent the spread of of coronavirus as much as possible we do need to make sure people are washing their hands wheezing and high and sanitizer and if you're vulnerable that you need to wear a mask we also need to understand the economic realities of people I had one Representative tell me Senator tell me that and her county that had one to us from corona virus and twelve suicide. We need to understand that as policy makers and members of public health committee we need to know that that's happening. Horrid that's horrific we're talking about corona virus but we're not talking about. Suicide because people are losing our livelihoods because are losing everything that they've worked their entire lives for we're not talking about that and I have a problem with that the other thing is we have people that are missing their diagnosis I have a problem with that. I have a problem with a missed brain tumor FOR six week old baby. I have a problem with that I'll give you another example and I'm sure the other folks in here to give you two or three examples but this past weekend I was in Clay County Clay County has had four cases no deaths I don't think if any hospitalizations not sure about that but all for those people have recovered so they have no active cases there's a restaurant there and one is two one the towns second generation been there for I worked there when I was fifteen years old I mean it's been a long time you tell. But they mentor many two generations they're just going day to day to day to try to stay in business you know hoping that things will open up soon but there's no active cases in that hole county there's only been for from the beginning I'm sure other people have the same stories why are they being forced to probably go out of business. When they're not even affected. You know it and there's not that much travel in and out of it's a smaller county like some of the southern counties where there's not a lot of influence of people coming and going or flying out you know out of state or whatever so those cases they should know that and maybe maybe a policy could the be developed by county even. To to address those things so those are some of the things and I'm sure these other folks have same stories from their areas okay so that all right so that bill helps me understand because initially when I was thinking I was like well why with the Arkansas department of health change of policy their health policy but this that I understand it so thank you for thank you for that so that that's that's good that nothing in conversation I think under the Arkansas department of health out I will support that because I think that is that's will know that some. So let's talk about trends and and what transmission because we have three hundred plus cases. Yet announced yesterday in so what the trends and everything re opening how does the the Arkansas department of health look at that and and how how do you take these these new cases into account. So whenever we get a report of a new case then we have a nurse called that patient in interview them and ask them a number of questions we want to find out course when they're infectious period was and where they have been. Not only to determine who they may have exposed but also to determine where they may have gotten the illness where they picked up the virus so we do ask about Up places they have been such as. Church beauty parlor and. Restaurant and so forth some of these places we've opened up to determine if they are sources of spread at this point in time it does not appear so but I can't really be sure for the most recent cases because I don't have the data get from all the interviews but we do monitor that to see if there are places where people likely have been exposed so that we can intervene if needed I think opening up has a likely not been a great contributor to the cases I have From my understanding many of the cases in northwest Arkansas are either work related or household related or from the community from the social networks so it's going to be important for us to understand those dynamics and not the for instance moved back the other way to close things that we've already opened up because there's an increased number of cases we really have to know if it's contributing to that are not before we make such a move so the fastest growing growing groups right now are the Hispanics in northwest Arkansas and also in southwest Arkansas on severe Cammy related to some of the poultry and other businesses and but we aren't really sure it's. Strictly. Being transmitted from the. Places of work there's something going on in the community we see a one of the fastest growing groups is the children people under nineteen years of age so that age group. And. They're not in school so we need to understand where they are being exposed we have some challenges because of the language issues and so actually as soon as I'm done here I'll be going to the office to get on a call conference call with the centers for disease control and prevention to ask they're going to be sending in a a team to help us assess that so that that we can understand better where the points of intervention are going to be for that group in order to stop the spread because I think there are things going on socially culturally that I wouldn't know about and we need help with Spanish language public health experts to a interview them and understand that so that's one thing with the big cases were looking at okay well under hello I just wanted to see if what what the rationale or the thought process was that goes into the actually everything coming back online the case is trending up in in what is Arkansas department help thinking of last and not least when you when You just mention making contact with the minority communities I don't I don't want to sound like I'm put in a plug in for my wife but she does have excellent content and Hispanic community of both the north west and in southern Arkansas so if you would just please make sure that when you pointing and you know because usually one community when you going to a community people are looking for familiar faces and familiar of people so when you going and just consider that kiss consents that's something that's important so I thank you thank you Mr chair. Senator sample you're recognized request I thank thank you Mr. I'll be on a lot prefer one the room the reason and rises because you're doing more tests you're right. It's both actually more spread and more testing and the reason I think that is as we look at the total number of tests and what percentage of those are positive. And we like that to be less than ten percent. so if there's more spread and you're doing the same amount of testing the percent positive should increase if there's not much spread and you're doing more testing the percent positive should decrease. But right now it's staying fairly stable so that's telling me we've got some of both going on we've got increase testing but we also have spread and so it. And counties where we have few cases we still want to test their because of it starts to circulate we want to know that and and of course in counties where we know they're spread one increase the testing so that we can find all of the current cases and have them isolate and. Of understand who they've been exposed so that they can be quarantine and stop the chain of transmission that way so that's I guess that's a long answer to a it's both okay thank you again so I can go home tonight one a ask about the are you in the process of of teaching patients with nursing homes yes Sir were or you in the all right so we would Perry much light to allow visitation in nursing homes yes that's why I get so much grief yes so with course want our nursing homes to be safe because when Kobe nineteen goes through a nursing home potential for a lot of people to die. So what we would like to do is. The best baseline testing and all of the nursing homes of and so we started that yesterday was the first day of that and we started in Benton county because course that's where there's more community spread and more likely so that if there are undetected cases will find them and we can. Address that in the nursing home and then we are working to. With the Arkansas healthcare association and to put together some guidance Sir Processes for allowing visitors to the nursing home so that when people start coming and they don't bring and covert nineteen with them and then of course it's gonna be hard to detect sometimes so we'll have to have steps in place where we retest nursing homes on appear at base we have to develop all that and how we develop that will depend somewhat on what we find now with this baseline testing the goal is for all of the baseline testing to be completed by June thirtieth okay. You know I know that that I get calls about this is not only from laughed but Since the incidents were reported incidents of of pages having the virus is well when garden and settling county they would very much like to be on that list pretty happy priority. And so if you would have to help me out so. Thank you thank you Mr. Representative Gonzalez you're recognized thank you Mr A started out I had several questions but a lot of those that have been answered already but one thing that that I thought was interesting is the you said that you don't believe that opening up has contributed to more spread and up I believe doctor Smith said that yesterday as well that he didn't believe that either don't believe the protest contributed to any as well and you would like to see the positive under ten percent well yesterday you said that the puzzles were five point nine so what is the danger of of open up minute lease going to the stage to. I've those are decisions that the governor on may whether we open up okay so he relies heavily on the health of yes yes and we are having discussions and actually a meeting tomorrow we will discuss that so from my perspective is what we have done so for the has not greatly contributed to the spread that we can determine then it is reasonable that we could continue to open up now I don't know if that's what doctor Smith will recommend I can give input but I think we are on the right track so what would be your recommendation if you had to make one tomorrow. I don't think I dare say it in this context. So okay another question on on the antibody testing we're we're we had on that or or people building antibodies are they keeping antibodies are we doing anything to track that okay so right now there are antibody tests available but they and they have been approved by the FDA under their emergency use application. But they haven't been validated that means they haven't been studied to show do they really test what we want them to test one of the problems is the antibody tests out there cross react with other corona viruses that cause the common cold so if the antibody test is positive we aren't really sure it's positive for cove in nineteen. Plus some of the antibody tests may not pick up what we want it to so if it's negative we aren't really sure it's negative so we are waiting for better antibody tests that have been been demonstrated to really test what we want them to test they will be useful in terms of us understanding how and the virus may have spread in Arkansas but that's in retrospect. When a person gets infected with the virus the test we do now is a call the polymerase chain reaction or PCR test it actually detect the presence of the genetic material for the virus so if that's present the viruses present. A person doesn't develop antibodies until there well from the illness one two three weeks later. So you can't use the antibody test to diagnose a case and then have them isolate because it's way too late. So we really need the PC are kinds of tests to make the determination that someone currently has the virus and then we make our decisions about isolation and so forth based on that the antibody tests will be useful in terms of understanding the spread of the disease and then if there is a AM vaccine by that becomes available they can use it to see how does the vaccine affect someone. The other point I would like to make is we do not know yet if someone recovers from covert nineteen whether they can get it again we don't know yet how long they're immunity would protect them we know that other corona viruses that circulate the calls the common cold people can get those viruses again the immunity from getting the cold once wanes and then you can get that same virus again so we don't know if that happens with code nineteen or not yet and that's of concern to us and so the to me the best hope would be if that doesn't happen then we will get a vaccine that could potentially stimulate long term immunity if the vaccine does not then we would need to get repeated doses a booster dose every so often of the vaccine. So are there any corona viruses out there that do you have you can have a long term vaccine for or they all like the flu vaccine you have to go every year what we don't know yet how the new vaccines will work there's different no I'm announcing differently than we have other coronaviruses **** are there any vaccines that are long or those viruses for for that for anything for any coronavirus that the tested so far so why would we think that we we can create a long term vaccine for this coronavirus because we have new technology to make vaccines that may be able to stimulate a natural immune response that's different from the actual virus itself. And and so we see that with other vaccines that we know that the HPV vaccine for example stimulates a better or stronger immune response than the natural infection that can happen there's various corona vaccine. A technologies or for the call platforms different ways of making corona virus vaccines so over time will be able to determine if one works better than the other four lasting immunity to has any of that new technology been tested on other coronavirus no no this is newer than that. Thank you. Representative garner you're recognized for a question. Are you on. About. Is your green light on. You should be on. Now it's on now time thank you. First of All I Want to say thank you because I have called you guys many times asking about questions and I appreciate you guys happen helping out I am in northwest Arkansas of where we're seeing a huge spike and we're already having hospitals divert and I just want to know if there is data somewhere that we can tell where the hospitals are and where there are in incapacity adware vents are and those kinds of things and and then how we get that information to folks who were trying to get to the hospitals and and need other kinds of of procedures going on. So Because of the a way that are trauma system has been structured and of the technology for that we've been able to have a database F. for Arkansas for all of the hospitals that track the number of beds they have how many of them are occupied we know how many I see you beds they have and how many of them are occupied in ventilators and so forth so that those are tracked and were able to work with the the EMS system to make sure that when they're going to a hospital with the patient that they have that capacity and one of the concerns of course we have with corona viruses hope for welding that healthcare system that's why it's been so important for us to kind of flat and curved and for the first time in an area you know we're seeing at creep up in the number at the proportion of the hospitals being full and we're monitoring that and working with the the hospitals and the A. The group that at the health department that does the emergency preparedness to monitor that and make changes We a of course of want to make sure that you know when. We have a lot of people in the hospital that other people that are not corona virus related are also able to get the care that they need and that's also very important and Right now those things are being watched very carefully and because as if we're needing to divert or a range alternate hospital capacity in an area than. We we need to be ready to do that right if follow up if I may Mister. Thank you so I guess I guess what I'm asking is is that information available for me for a legislator or I'm hearing panic and stead of you know I think if there were more transparency about what's available and who's doing what and that they're changing towers and all those kinds of things that people would not be as afraid but on social media everybody saying will every hospitals being diverted to wherever and I understand hippa I understand those kinds of issues but is there some way to figure out a way to get that information yes it we should be able to keep communicate general information like that and we would need to likely work with the hospital association and so forth for one just give some thought about that I think that's very reasonable to up make sure that the public understands the situation so there's not panic and rumors that are spread and so forth if they're not correct right thank you very much. Absent a Richmond you're recognized. Thank you Mr chair if you'd bear with me I appreciate you being here but I'm going to read a short message that I received yesterday afternoon from constituents. Says I'm a healthcare provider and my parents are insisted living I work in a nursing home my concern is that this locked down as having a serious detrimental effect on both the mental and physical health of these residents. I have seen an increase in dementia affects my own father and depression and despondency and my mother since I'm unable to get to my parents they cannot leave and get out into society for mental health and other perspective they're missing vital doctor appointments including cardiac rehab because if I take them out of the bill then then they have to be quarantine for fourteen days which also aggravates the situation there's quite a bit more there now I know that this is a catch twenty two. Steel because this is the most valuable part of the population but is there any. Part of the middle of the of the health department that is trying to monitor these type of facts and maybe be able to address these issues and help these nursing homes and other assisted living to to be able to mitigate this aggravation that is because a lot of times by this isolation that these these people are feeling. You know this situation is. Extremely serious I don't have words to say that and I'll let you know that I trained as a geriatrician so I understand so the health department's main focus in terms of the people working with the long term care is with infection control and disease outbreak the department we work closely with the department of Human Services as well as the Arkansas health care association to address many of the other Collateral I guess you could say issues they are very important in where aware of them and feel that. We could not open them up to visitation you know an at least from my point of view you know a day to send but we have got to have a way to keep the and FOR and section of coping nineteen under control so my prayer and hope is that we will be able to get them open when the baseline testing is completed and we have a way and the nursing homes and assisted living facilities have a way a process that they can follow in order to minimize that kind of risk. Follow up Mr yes recognized I know that the US part of the frustration and you've heard it reference in other areas and things as far as you know being able to go to Walmart or something else like that but the people that that are sitting on the outside wanting to visit with the parents they see the employees you know they they can't be locked down there as well they have they get to go home they get they have to go shopping they have to live their life outside of their job and then they come in and do that now I know their steps taken they do everything they possibly can to minimize that but that's one of the things that these folks see and then go why can I yes and and I don't have a good answer other than. It's just like you I don't want to see your parents catch this disease and and and die from it. But that's that's one of the other perspective that you have on this and I'm just off night for comment if you might have some. Well I am also aware that not allowing visitation puts a lot more responsibility on the employee to provide that kind of support that the residents of the system living or nursing home needs so I will be. Very happy when we get to the point where we can open these facilities up to visitation. Okay thank you ma'am thank you Mr. Representative Johnson you're recognized. Thank you Mr chair and madam chair yeah the longer you sit waiting for questions the more your questions get answered I want to make a few comments about the map that the center of and report. Mentioned earlier section one of the things we've heard is this possibility regional press re opening which I'm an advocate for I think that makes some sense in our state my concern is the map that we've seen on the press conference as appears to be the five region map the device local health units based on the organization leadership structure is that correct that's what they've been using **** yeah and that's it so we see the bar graphs dividing up and seeing that numbers by region that's also reflected within the same five regions that is correct so the so there is a seven region map did the health department also uses for trauma and also for the health coalitions that correct yeah it's the health coalition or the hospital association same kind of division cast so so it is my understanding that that map is designed to divide the state into regions based on hospital support and geographic hospital care is that your understanding yes so so I guess my comment would be you know if we're going to divide the state into regions for regional re opening it makes a lot more sense to me to bases regions on G. geography tied to hospital capacity because a lot of the things that we're looking at it to be at the end of the day this is about hospital capacity you know flat in the car was never about not consuming the people we're gonna at weather was a flat carvers back carver by face occur the number of people the catch the disease under the covers the same is that correct. Well put it in so it's really about how fast we consume them is a hospital system so to me if we're gonna go regionally we need to tie that the hospital capacity in the five region that the problem is that there counties if you look for instance a Baxter county Baxter county Scott in the northwest Arkansas region Baxter county has very few cases people in stone county Izard county Fulton County around Baxter they get all their health care for Mountain Home in so it doesn't make any sense to car been into a separate region from where they get the healthcare second same way when you look at Faulkner county Conway county you come we counties carved out from Faulkner county the five county or the five bridges on the seven ridge so the win in those discussions when asked to explain what I meant by that that would be the point is I would advocate you know if there's opportunity to continue looking regional re opening I think looking at the seven region that makes makes more sense you could say the same thing about garland county garland county divided out from hot spring county and that that's mostly what streets county get their health care from our recognition so would you consider looking at our seven ridge map to form that it question as a re opening strategy in Dade okay so in other questions regarding the gallons of how may so there are a lot of apparent contradictions in the guidelines in we do is legislators I mean you may surprise you to know as a physician legislator I feel a lot of questions and all of us are filled in loss of questions about the guidelines and there are some things in them that did create some apparent conflict in in I'm sympathetic look I've written a lot of protocols my career and I know these written by necessity quickly I know that there's no road map for how you plan for this kind of pandemic and that everyone's doing the best they can with the Rhine these direct you so I'm not critical of the way the directives a written that I do think there's opportunity to set down as a group and look at some of these conflicts because we it is hard to know. How to express that feedback to the department of health all of us I think have different contact points in the department of health all of this to reaching out piecemeal to the people that we touching contact but would you be open to perhaps a subcommittee of this large group to sit down with and discuss feedback on what we're hearing from our constituents with possible conflicts maybe look at revising some of those guidelines knowing now that we're probably going to be in phase one for a longer period of time than initially anticipated. Representantes not we can pass on up and say you know we uh. We get a lot of input from different different folks and we doctor Smith worked together very closely we can pass on and see what yes it again I'm not yet if what we're hearing in that what seems to me like working in the committee is the sum if the city sympathy obviously none of us are angry with the department of health but but also frustration our parts because we are getting a lot of the bright some of these you know a parent at discrepancies in the approach in the directives and self there was that opportunity said on a visit however we formatted that whether that was a more frequent committee meetings when a subcommittee I think that would be a good opportunity to provide constructive your constructive feedback that I know you'll be receptive to yes Sir will we'll pass it on and see what the what the decision is okay and arrive if further questions thank you I appreciate your thank you thank you Representative Johnson and in response to your question about subcommittees we have three subcommittees the chairs of those subcommittees can call meetings so I don't know which one will be appropriate but that's that's something that's available to us as a committee so that subcommittee that chair of that subcommittee that's appropriate for this subject could call a meeting. So that's up to us to do that. also let me Interjection here of the chairs of been talking we're going to schedule a meeting for June the twenty second they'll be notices come out on this but I want to let you know at ten AM that's a week from Monday and we're we're search the talking about having meetings every two weeks. because there's a lot of questions here and we've got people waiting we've got an agenda so we were not going to get through all these but we will do that and try to get more communications going on this and get more answers for you all and for us and also we have four more people in the queue I'm gonna try to let you speak but at some point we have to cut this off and go on with the agenda so just try to keep your questions short if you can. So with that I will move to. Represented Miller you're recognized for a question. Area. Thank you Mr or madam chair appreciate it thank you all for for being here and. Hear from us I'm just curious. I know we've done I know it was talked about earlier the sports stuff that's that's re opened What. Hold on when make sure we're good. And we can hear you I really appreciate the. The bill. Thank you thank I've always thought he had a problem with disabled people. You prove me wrong. Yeah okay I was manger. anyway. What is the difference so I mean what is the criteria that Arkansas is using because like OK. I'll get my son plays a U. basketball and for the next month and a half. We're going out of state every weekend to play basketball tournaments because Arkansas is not open back up and what is what is the criteria that Missouri Oklahoma taxes Tennessee. All these other states are using to open up there and I'm I obviously there's restrictions there I mean you know you got to wear masks and that kind of stuff and and not know how five and but Like what's the difference what are we doing different I'm not complaining I'm just wondering so I can answer. Questions when I get asked all the time about this. So what got regard to basketball the of thought was that that's. A close contact sport so transmission is more likely to occur during the game or during practices however if people are going out of state to play and bringing the covert nineteen back that's going to be an issue so then that begs the question was should we just let people here play basketball and that's a question that needs to be asked and I don't have an answer for that yet. Okay well I mean just one quick follow up I mean there we have. Arkansas has teams. All over our our Kansans are going out of state you know to play a Tulsa Oklahoma City always other bills and and they're they're going to come back so I'm just I'm just curious like I don't understand. It is kinda like to with our with our you know I know the schools have gone back to practice but they have all these restrictions well and I understand a lot of is probably to protect either the triple a or the state or the school system or whatever you know well. But I mean all these kids to they they they show up to practice I got to be six or twelve feet apart. But they rode the same pick up truck and they just spent all weekend on the lake together how that with each other or wave runner. And and I'm and I'm not trying to pick I'm to say and you know like that's the reality leased it is in my part of the world so if. Whenever we get an update on that I would love to know. And I would encourage opening up because I want to travel to watch my son play. Thank you the. Representative Fortner you're recognized for a question. Thank you Mr chairman If the if you truly don't understand the Hispanic community and I believe that you're sincere I can give you just a little insight having been raised in the committee. Two years ago. You don't have to bring in a specialist. Hispanic people are very family oriented. And your family is my family and their family is our family. And they function as a group they raise children as a collective effort. The children Coleman Chael they run they play they hope they kiss they share and they take it back to their families who hug share in kiss. A Hispanic man or woman will not. Go to work with a cold or what they perceive as a call will go to work they will not miss work for what they perceive as a cold or a mine all minor illness. Not. Those are facts. And that that alone should explain to you why it would spread quickly now that we're testing more of them. I hope that's helpful thank you. Okay one yes is that we talked about was having someone from Hispanic community come to our next meeting if we can get that someone who represents a community could give more insight into that absent for just what you just did. Representative Bentley recognized. Thank you chairman Mr Gilmour Phil just get answers to these two questions for me I'd be appreciated. Just I know that with the numbers are five new for the children we can we tell which ones are symptomatic versus a symptomatic in the younger population under eighteen and last I checked with you we only had one person in the state under the age of eighteen that they've been hospitalized is that true this state do in our if you can get out in advance right now having it back with me on that I'm just curious I think it's important we start thing about kids come back to school. Just to reiterate I think it's a highly important that we get our kids back to school and we've done a great disservice to our kids And your teachers I just hear from everyday from to teachers and students that when you get back to school and I just hope that we develop our policy based on data. And not on models that have she's proven to be inaccurate over and over so I appreciate your diligence to look at that and after July you've done a great job on as appreciate that again but I hope that we can really again I had a constituent that. that shot himself because he couldn't get a procedure done is extreme payment extreme pain for years and we cut off doing Non essential surgeries his was cut off and so we need to look at the Sears situation with with suicide because is getting very bad out there so. When you look at economics in one load I know it's important that I know that at the end of the day it's not in my back is on the governor's back and only people die but it we also look at is of the situations I think hope that you guys to bring it is attention as well. Thank you very much. Representative brown you're recognized for a question. Thank you Mr chair I think I have two quick easy questions. Of the people that you tested in that were positive and you said were ill. Were any of those people a symptomatic that you know of. So the people who yes we do test people who are positive and they don't have symptoms and and they don't develop symptoms and they don't US would sometimes we don't know when we testament they're gonna stay a sum to mac or if they'll develop symptoms later but at that point in time they may not have any symptoms. And my second question has to do with the type of Kobe tests at the seniors are going to be receiving the reason I ask is I've had to test. One I was dreading because I'd heard it was horrible. And when it was all said and done I thought well that when any fun but it would any big deal. Few weeks later I had another one I thought I was going to back through my at the seat of my truck before she finished raiment through my nose with that law it was horrible. Now my question is this do we have a gentle way to test these elderly people people who may have dementia or people with other problems so that they are not totally freaked out with this I mean it that last test I had was horribly uncomfortable. So unfortunately we do have a new way of collecting the test so the one that the house way back into the back of your nose into the nasal pharynx is a nasal pharyngeal swab in peace why we call for sure you may have heard that but now we have a nasal swab is just the first part of the nose it's my understanding that that's what they're using I can verify that but that is what I understand that they're using and this is a a benefit because it doesn't create as many as much aerosol when it's collected and so it is less risk for the person collecting the specimen and then if they could use the less protective equipment but also I wouldn't work where the well for nursing home patients but people in the community could do their own swab collection yes if that one is used thank you and the I just one less item my mother lives in assisted living facility. And recently we received an email from the director asking us if we would please bring TV trays if our family member did not have one because there were so many people there who had stopped eating or they had diminished appetites and they've I think they felt that the social interaction that they were used to was not occurring so they were going to feed the residents outside their rooms each have their own room. and so they were gonna set their TV trays up outside the room so they could at least visit down the hall with each other and I really think it's extremely important and. I know people who have lost family members who were able to be there and hold their hand with them when they died and I would just I mean mom is I mean I can't believe she's just still tripper she understands and the seems to be okay with that but you know she has five kids who caller But I think for others it's they don't have that much family to stay in touch with. Thank you thank you for. Representative Johnson you're recognized for the last question on this great set a make a quick point so with there's been discussions about how to reach the Spanish speaking community and others that twenty eight member task force that was formed in the department health with doctor Meryl perhaps maybe the next meeting could have doctor Meryl come and give us an update on that the work the task force is doing and how they're pointed out reach in our communities specifically Spanish speaking communities that might be an interesting way to to promote that discussion that was the only questions can ask. All right of members we're gonna stop there. Thank you all for me in here as been real good discussion procedure openness and and again I that thank you got that we're we're not upset with what the health department is doing we're just trying to help so with the questions so thank you. Thank you again for coming and thank you so much for your work I just. So much appreciated. Okay. The next item on the agenda is J. but I want to recognize Representative Bentley for motion. Let's turn you on your. Are you on yeah I am now thank you I would make a motion to immediately consider. Item you I will move that this committee is not reviewed. And I make a motion for reconsideration of that boat to send out item you out of here is on reviewed. Okay have a motion to not review item you and I have a second who was the second. What. The tech connect. Not on you with this Representative Wardlaw. Okay we have a motion and a second. To not review. Item you. And the motion was for immediate consideration so there's no discussion. So all in favor of the motion signify by saying aye I. All opposed nay. Motion carries. So Adam you is not reviewed. All right the committee were gonna move to item J. E.. The bill would come for. And introduce yourself for the record. Thank you Mr chairman mark white with DHS. You may proceed mark. Thank you Mr chairman and I do have some other individuals here who can answer questions certainly as needed I thought might be helpful sellers would confusion yesterday we talked for several things five make just three quick points to cover outlined set the context for what this rule does and then be happy to answer questions after that this is the proposed rate increase for personal care providers these are the individuals provide in home services to beneficiaries who need help with their activities of daily living somethings like paving cleaning mill preparation eighteen things like that and so the three things I want to put out there just in the put this in context one is to understand how we got to this recommendation last year the governor did do an executive order that directed DHS to to write reviews for all Medicaid providers instead of that we would do those of course for about two years and that the end of that every provider top Medicaid would be on a schedule to receive regular review at least once every four years and so the way we done that is we've split them up into groups and about four five providers at a time product provider groups at a time I should say. For each of those we've had our staff has pulled law the data look at it and and made a recommendation of what the not that rate needs to be changed and then at the sector increased at a rate needs to be changed the next up is it goes to our contract actuaries and they take that that same day to add additional data their own they get from national sources as well as from other places of for example may cost surveys that we send those providers and we did in this case and the actuaries make a recommendation of what that rate ought to be of of what it costs the provider to provide that service and I live size that recommendation is made on the basis of the data and then we adjust our budget to fit the rate increase is not the other way around the budget doesn't determine the rate the rate determines the budget. And so for these that we have brought for you in this meeting pre estate day the reason these were the first categories for personal care and then also for the early intervention day treatment providers those of the Medicaid providers that really more than anybody else most directly affected by the minimum wage increase and so we wanted to make sure that their rates took that into account they were prepared for those increases is those come in and we also include physicians in that initial group because the physicians that affects a wide swath of Medicaid as well as their other provider types to get the same rate so for example the advanced practice nurses and so that's one with those groups were in this initial group that we did do these rate increases first so that's the the process of how we come up with a recommendation six meters the time line we do have this pending for you today as we said yesterday we are going to be continued we looking that the personal care rate particular five through this year we expect to come back and revisit the issue in the fall it may be that we cut that we come back with a recommendation of an additional increase at that point but that isn't working come back and look at and one piece that we would like to consider as part of that no there's a handout yesterday were so the provider groups had done their own cost survey and then did an actuarial report recommending A rate and we haven't seen that data and would like to be able to see the data behind that see what their cost survey asked for how they define things and see where the differences are for the gaps between when they've identified and what we've identified we have asked that we have not received it but certainly we are open to review in that including that as we take another look at this as we go into the fall. But in the third point I did wish to touch on the budget issue as I said these rate recommendations are made independent the budget we we determine what the appropriate rate is and then we just the budget to fit it but our budget for next year it is premised on these rate increases that we are recommending we've maybe just was necessary to fit those in certainly changes can be made but those additional changes are going to require additional changes to the budget to make sure that they are paid for and keep in mind that we are making these decisions in a very volatile time right now you do you know the the difficulties our economy is having because the pandemic because really closures they're also uncertainty around utilization no even though what we may expect beneficiaries may use a service that particular amount it may be that act that rate goes up they may use it more and so that is greater cost state there's also eligibility issues you know one thing one one affect this pandemic Congress has essentially frozen eligibility for Medicaid beneficiaries and so right now against a few specific situations we cannot take someone off of Medicaid and so that we're expecting our roles they are growing now expect them to continue to grow throughout this public health emergency and to the federal government removes that emergency and so those are all factors that affect what it cost to come back and provide additional increases beyond what is as are being contemplated so Medicaid budget is very tight we are trying to live within our means and live within the state general revenue we have allocated to us which make sure they one understands that if there is an additional rate increase added there is that budget component that has to be considered and it's an ongoing commitment not just a one time amount but it's map has been met this year next year and all under the future until that rates changed again house hopefully they give some context for how. We did the right study how we got to where we're at today and that leaves us with a proposal today which is for a one point four percent increase for personal care providers so that Mister chairman of happy to answer any questions the committee may have. Represented Miller you're recognized. Thank you Mr chair of. I would like to make a motion of right now all. FOR immediate consideration. Of this to not review and to send it back and then I could add. Further my reasoning for that in the discussion phase. In the discussion phase of your motion yes Sir. There is no discussion of its me consideration industry okay well then. Okay now. Yeah go ahead I I this this that add up I mean we we listen to the stuff yesterday one you know of. This this Millman study group of you know I don't know any dollar sitting out here but this this was general and I don't have to deal with this committee coming back later in the year hopefully before the deadline I understand personally How crucial the services are and what we're looking at and will especially in rule Arkansas what we're looking at is if is if they do not get a more substantial. Increase in the reimbursement rates we're gonna have agencies close when agencies close we're gonna have people go to the nursing homes have a nursing homes may love that but we is the taxpayers are like that because obviously it's a lot more affordable to care for people at home and a one point four percent raise I mean I don't know what we're we're reimbursing now at like eighteen dollars and something an hour one point four percent of that doesn't near about make up the difference and You know in in in what's been required by the The minimum wage increase so it's just it's not gonna work and and and instead of coming back you know does passing this and then you know maybe I'll come back maybe not whatever I don't want to take that chance. and so I would like for this committee did not review this and ask that you all will back have. A different study done or do whatever come back with something more substantial that's going to actually work because this signal work for folks cover my area and I know a lot of my colleagues in here have similar agencies in there you're there looking at at the same thing I mean you know you you can only you can't get blood out of a term. And that's basically what they're gonna be asked to do come January one yes I will work out of and then we're gonna see a a big increase in people have to go to institutions so now allow discuss that I would like to move for immediate consideration. Our. I will I will pause on the meeting consideration fuel ask questions go ahead. Absent a Miller the chair would like to ask you to allow other folks to the but in discussion before your motion if that would be okay. But what I recognize your motion how that would be just fine yes Sir thank you Sir. Senator sample you're recognized. Yes thank you a. I've got big concerns of the essence this is by legislation. And and not a white Representative Miller thank you that we do that the use right to way too low. Now. I guess I could live with it but the fact it not knowing that you're going to come back many fee if it was positively. Absolutely did you are going to come back this fall with a right another rate increase I could go along with it but I think I I'm like were presented Miller I wanna see through I want to see the results before I agree to something like this thank you Mr chair. Senator hammer you're recognized. Thank you Mr chair of first of all you made a comment about federal about the federal government are you saying that they will allow you to add to the Medicaid role but they will not allow you to take anybody off the Medicaid rolls. Yes Senator hammer. A good way to grow Medicaid Do you know what the rationale is behind that what's the dialogue it was tied to the additional reimbursement rates which which they provide is on a temporary basis provides additional six point two percent match on the federal side so the states are spending less money for each dollar that goes to Medicaid the issue is between that increased enrollment which they put on the other side as well as the utilization issues related to cope it it's it's not so we're saying we're seeing the savings from if that makes sense. Okay there's a difference between seeing savings and building Medicaid reserve can you qualify that a little bit because when I heard you say that firstly I'm thinking of is your your. Nest egg in money yes leave rates are are the medic Medicaid trust fund continues to drop in other words that it we continue to have access to trust fund to continue to fund Medicaid through the year we are within our budget and we expect to meet that budget but it's very close and no I in an ideal world that six point two percent would admit with right freed up substantial revenue but that's that did not happen because of that enrollment issue where the the enrollments going up because went to keep those folks on which the Medicare trust fund belts now do you know I believe it's approximately one hundred fifty million. That's. That's or the projection. Hundred forty fives the projection for the this year so by the federal government doing what they're doing had they set us up to spend down our funds. It's. I've from what I've seen I think it is probably close to a wash that between the increase dollars there provided on the one side with increased cost from the eligibility changes I think those are basically just cancel each other's out okay madam chair Mr chair whoever's at the helm cannot ask of cheer a request please yes. The before we get too far the wage do you have anybody speak for against this. Amend or standing that there are people here to testify on this issue okay so I would just respectfully request as we would want to hear the questions from the members before we make a decision that we also hear input from anybody that wants to speak about this the chair speak from the public thank you manager. Out of okay so I mean. What I a what I'm going to ask Representative Miller your motion is just from a motion to not recommends not to review at this time and we're in the discussion phrase would you allow for the people that have traveled here to testify on this issue to go ahead I mean. We've got a we've got a motion on the table with discussion amongst the legislators on that motion but there are people here that of travel to testify which is why we put it to this afternoon so. Can you do you mind pulling your motion down for a second so that they can testify and then we can come back to you. We're. Okay of those my understanding. That love my motion and not officially been recognized yet I did that as a favor to the chair oh okay and okay and also I would throw in there since we added that these other people traveled this is the second day that I've traveled here yes I know and you know and missing work and stuff and so now I understand be expedient as possible but yes OB we can we can discuss it then we're gonna make a motion to hopefully killing. I won't comment on that. The. Representative Bentley you're recognized for a question. Thank you chairman thank you mark for combat today I appreciate it just want to asked some questions so we're going from eighteen dollars an hour to eighteen twenty four is that a yes no twenty four cents and so I'm just going to support Representative Miller and that this is not functional for my A the agencies that my district to survive and I know that you know how vitally important is we're on the same page and how violent point it is I have folks that are eighty eight ninety my parents and can't survive without it so it's a very important just can't figure out why with the minimum study why they did ten dollars and twenty eight cents an hour when we know the minimum wage is eleven dollars an hour starting twelve twenty one can you can discover explain that to me sure the the ten twenty that was the the bill us number they started with that increased that reflect medical inflation and other factors and so the it is a higher amount is included in the rate but that's just that was the starting point based on those be lost numbers. On the second question is in which and I appreciate that we have gone up on the right much better than we have with physicians across the state with Medicaid which we've not gone up in years the lease we have done that but I look back in two thousand sixteen when the minimum wage is eight dollars an hour we were reimbursing at eighteen dollars an hour now for you know that was our rate personal care it was eighteen dollars an hour in two thousand sixteen and minimum wage that point was eight dollars now we're going of up to eleven dollars an hour and we're gonna be eighteen twenty four so I think you can look with me and see that that's. Not covering the cost so can you explain to me how we can with the rationales behind that. I can I give use somewhat understand so the system history some but going based on what I've been told in my understanding of that history yes in two thousand sixteen the department did increase the rate for personal care and increased it to eighteen dollars per hour my understanding is there is not a cost survey or any actuarial work done at that time rather that was more a negotiated rate those agree to between I think the providers and the department what we've done this time this different is we actually we do cost service we can understand just what all is involved in that gap between that ten dollars or eleven dollars an hour this being paid that worker in the eighteen dollars that's being paid to the agency so we know that there's enough there to meet the agency's costs and to meet that individual salary and so that's the difference is that cost survey and that's that's what we relied on in and how we got to that number I appreciate that one last question chairman out problem I will let it go you know so if we if we're getting eighteen twenty four hour and we're paying them you know ten or eleven in which you know this because as minimum wage if you gonna keep you know I heard that they're trying to raise like eighty percent or more and I know just from experience as a business owner if you want to keep good employees you pay a little more they don't have that turned over there after retraining keep good folks doing a good thing so just because as minimum wage is not what they're paying the employees to keep good employees. On correct that certainly can be the case what is in and that's what we would hope would have they would keep good employees not just pay the minimum wage they would pay the more than the minimum wages and also you know to get in and yell county where Matt Perry County if one house to the next is not a two minute thing is at a distance it takes fuel and other things that need to be added in there so you know I know that you've heard from a lot of providers and where there and so I would hope that you go back and look at it I know it I know budgets tight I understand that but this list taking a look at it thank you chairman I appreciate your time mark. Okay I think we have someone here to speak on this item. So. You can state they will be one of the just one person. So if you're out in the lobby and you wanna speak on the subject here in the room here come forward. If you would introduce yourself for the record thank you Mr chairman hi my name is Jim that's Kerr I live in a little rock for seven to three north look out I'm an economist I've been practicing for about forty years in Arkansas testified many times in a federal court and before the legislature on a different tax and revenue issues I was asked of. Early this year to look at this rate study that was referred to by Mister white the Milliman letter and simply look at some of the assumptions they made and how the rate was determined. I sent a. Copy of some comments I made in some tables A two year Website and to each of you individually so there's a lot of details they're not happy to go over them but just to summarize quickly when we looked at the mill my letter we found. There's three four areas there were some very important assumptions were made. And when we look more carefully into these assumptions having to do with the average hourly wage of the years that the projected for and to in particular. Overhead costs of the providers of that there were some significant differences between what they use for as their basis and what we were able to find on the average hourly rate it's already been mentioned of that low rate of ten twenty eight they find in the bureau of labor statistics for the year twenty eighteen of when we look in the BLS data we find specific to Arkansas providers a higher rate on average of both the meeting and I mean we chose the median we think that's a little more conservative but even that rate. Pardon me is a or would be Ten dollars and eighty eight cents quite close to the minimum wage which in fact is not mentioned or used in the mental and letter totally discounting the recent changes in minimum wage in this state so they've missed that we used to ten eighty eight medians quite close to the eleven dollar minimum wage that'll be in force at that time. Second thing that the Millman folks had was provider surveys from the year twenty eighteen. we thought those were at this point a little bit old so we recess survey if you will the providers using the same basic format incidently copies of all those from twenty nineteen were provided to someone at DHS several months ago I don't know why. They haven't gotten to your office would be glad to provide it again I mean they're just a matter of record. They showed interestingly that this overhead rate was underestimated by Milliman in is now much closer to a forty one percent is the average overhead right now forty one percent thirty percent it in some ways you say not a big deal but these calculations are very sensitive to small changes in the base rate or into the overhead rate you just put us few percentage points are few pennies in there and by the time you generate. That reimbursement rate you have for of the large differences. The last thing we noticed was that the Miller only brings the data up to the year twenty twenty but this reimbursement period we're talking about is slated to start next year and run for two or three years so it seemed to us that that rate should have been increased using up something like a three percent increase a similar to what Milliman used but it should have gone to at least twenty twenty one or twenty twenty two that's the mid point of the period we're talking about. So taking those three things into consideration reflecting the fact that we have a minimum wage. In Arkansas now so at a higher rate would be certainly advisable we we determine that that rate should be. A final rate of. Four dollars and eighty three cents as opposed to the four fifty and as I said that's the fifteen minute rate so by the time you multiply that up A you have something on the order of nineteen dollars and thirty one cents those figures are in my comments so I'll leave it there Mr chairman madam chair and if there any questions I'll be happy to entertain them. Senator hammer you're recognized for a question thank you Mr chair and. Did you calculate either one of you all well first Walmart did you miss why the. Have you seen. What he's presented. Before today. I've seen the report I believe the cop is disturbed yesterday okay have you all run an analysis of what the dish no cost would be if. We were to go with the numbers that he is presented. In his review all even had time to do that we have not. So. Is it met your match your scare Mr thank you thank you Mr Mr did you happen to run the numbers to see what the additional cost would be based on using your I'm sorry center have not done that. Okay because that's gonna be the net impact to the budget in my in my correct in that assumption looking at it that way. More. It is essentially yes so we can what to look to see what the total cost is and then figure out based on the federal match how much state general revenue is required for do you have any reason to believe that if we were to grant what is being recommended today that at the end of the year you wouldn't arrive at the same conclusion that he's arrived at so we would know that. Those numbers are what we would be looking at at the end of the year. Well parties and that's partners what we want to look that cost survey data because again we have the cost every day that we put out last year's based on twenty eighteen cost they put the as I understand it but one of this year for twenty nineteen cost and we want to see what are the differences there and and are those two service truly compare all and just without looking at that underlying data that's what makes it difficult to do you do you know if Millman had a chance to look at this information and respond to what's being presented here since it was revealed yesterday if you had got earlier I'm not that are not that I know of okay and then. Mr Metzger don't take this personal but I've got to ask this question as much and millions hired by DHS right there and contract DHS case. You did this work for the home care association. Don't take it personal but you're as much a hired gun to them is it as Milliman is to DHS I would like you to just state you're putting your reputation on these. Numbers I just like you to speak to that because you're hired by home care association of Arkansas. To do an analysis of Millan's numbers correct yes Senator hammer it's interesting you that you asked me that because in fact we were. Hired by an attorney that we work for other cases I've met no one from the home care association during the entire time our study I was simply has by the attorney to review this material and after the fact when it issued the findings then I was introduced to the people at the home care association okay so where else have you done work for that your numbers have been shown to prove out true over the long run. It is it maybe relates to this topic the subject matter we've been involved and number of cases involving I their medical costs or reimbursement for for example recently did the review for a diabetes treatment and hypertension treatment for the entire you a medical system. That was our work that helps them design their service package forward a universe of Arkansas employees. Did those numbers run true once you made. I think we save them a lot of money that's what I was told okay alright thank you the share. All right seeing no further questions thank you Sir. You Mr chair madam chair. Someone have a question on. Okay. Right. Okay we're back to. Absent a Miller. Okay thank you Mike his own A do you want to restate your motion yet yes Sir thank you of actually and since I did actually make the first motion until the that was not because of. Providence probably that I didn't but I would like to required this motion when I will make the motion that we hold. This role. In committee. And ask DHS to go make some adjustments and come back. Was something that would be more satisfying to the members of this committee. Okay of represented Miller we only have. Of four options. For reviewing this piece of this this rule number one is to review the number two is not review number three is no action and number four is the for until later. Yeah and no matter what action we take rules could still take it up but but you got one of those for we we we can't do a whole we have to do one of those four options I thank deferred is closest to what you're wanting to do. But. What your choice. I had been given that option by staff some. Thank you. I have a question for DHS you you you're recognized. And Mr why if is this rule slated to take affect this rate increase slated to take effect at what date if if everything went through and approved by this body the the intent was to have this in place by July one. So if if we held this rule in this public health committee it would not we would not be able to hear it until. July meeting. Unless we added that to the June twenty second meeting other than that would be after a LC which may or may not take it up in rules subcommittee. Whether we hold it here not. It it yes ma'am. Get a time line right it's I know our our our. Yes on as I said our intent was to get this in place July one so there is certainty for the so there is certainty for the rate that is being paid these providers. Is there anybody is there provider association that's present here. A member of the provider association. Could you come for please. You could state your. Matt my Clerk I'm a vice chair of the board for the home care association. I was are you want to make a statement as a I have a question okay go ahead you may person. How has your association mad about this proposal. yes we have what is your decision that's what what came from that decision was actual to hire an independent third party to do a study on it that came from this first conversation so the first convert session that we had with DHS was in December I believe of the rate going up to the eighteen twenty four and at that point in time we said we can't continue to do the US because of you know. The increases that we're taking on right now because of the minimum wage. That answer your question right and and yes I was just curious as to the progression in the that back and forth so December and then you met again January February March so I would say that as a group we have been meeting collectively since that point in time and then I believe it was was actually the week that covered broke that we met with the governor about that agency met with the governor did you have a final did you all say what I don't want to see happen though is like y'all say yes okay we're good with this with this plan in these next at some place but then to come here and say something differently make sense I have absolutely no that's why I'm asking these questions because I don't want to be put in that position absolutely so the recommendation and I think when Mr massacre was when he gave the rate based on the fifteen minute increments that that was based on the first year I think our take on it was it was going to be a four year that that we were gonna be stuck with the rate for four year that we take the mid point and that number was twenty one oh eight. Okay. And I believe you would have to ask him this question senator but I believe that was based on three percent increase each year. At three percent increase each year yes. Well that's very very different and and have I shouldn't I shouldn't speak to that because I wasn't the one that did the study so but I believe that is correct. Mr master is that correct. Bears and voted or whatever yeah and so did you all inform DHS of that decision thank you not agree with us or. So we've had ongoing conversations with DHS and then obviously we present at that rate to the governor. Okay and then they came back with what we have today what we have this number in December we were given this number in December I see I see okay okay okay thank you I just wanted to get some clarity for myself thank you absolutely. Senator sample you're recognized request. Thank you. This is my car yes commissioner Clarke. Can you believe with this right if we get an absolute agreement from DHS to tie will be back. Before the first of the year with the new right. So we I mean essentially what we've done is we've agreed to the right right now because we've been paid this rate since January the first okay what we've said it does that when the minimum wage goes up a dollar because I think it's naive I think One of the body here today spoke to we don't I don't know any of the people any of my colleagues that pay minimum wage like you can't keep or numbers if you if you pay minimum wage and so it's naive to believe that that is the number that were all starting with and so when this goes up another dollar an hour January January dollar an hour January the first we won't be able to do it we would have to be subsidizing the Medicaid business from other pay or sources that's a that's a poor business model. I understand that because I was in business for forty years and there was no such thing and minimum wage when we hired if unless we heard some by that we want to get rid of real quick right and left our competitors have them was in which power but minimum wage that as those in that when you've got to pay a person. So the to stay with you and and locks my my question was can you live with this until the first We'll give DHS December fifteenth drop dead deadline. Yes Sir okay or. Thank you Mr. Senator hammer thank you would you expand on that three percent comment you made amended go in the in the in the study was that a like a three percent cost of living bill ten automatically into the projection or would you. To find that Senator hammer I'm not sure that should be the one doing this jump that is correct right it was a three percent call up for the first two years with no co love for the fall the following two years which would be a four year period. So is basically taking the median of that analysis and say and this is the right for all four years correct. Okay so based on that comment. Par what I'm not wrestle with on that is you're getting a guaranteed built in if we went with the numbers that you presented even though it includes a projection that you're going to be able to give a three percent cost of living raise across board which I would think would pass on to the. Employees were being asked to. Give your bill ten three percent cost eleven we can't do that in other areas from wondering why would you want that built in two years well I think now keep in mind that the analysis was done with a minimum wage of ten dollars an hour we know that's going to a lab and okay so that was not built and number one number two is that we're a green to that term for a four year period so if there was no coal on their think by I think we would be in the same situation that we're in our may be a worse situation where the cost of living across the board of everything that we do from training to the hourly rate to insurance to you know everything it would put us even further behind and that and the association believes that it would force people to close their doors without any kind of. any kind of factoring for what would occur over those for that four year period okay one other question them on a ash the chair something if they allow and that is if you're already paint just help me out here if you're a pain above the minimum wage rate your argument is that your costs are going to go up when minimum wages goes up but are you are you paying above the minimum wage now are you paying above the minimum wage of what is going to be in January. I would say the answer to both of those questions is yes. and the reason why I say that is are we above the minimum wage now the answer is yes and then to look at that in advancement I think it goes back to the peace that if we were still paying minimum wage we wouldn't be able to keep the staff that we currently have nor would we be able to hire additional staff. Okay. It's chair. Yes I can't see rumpled Mr. I will go ahead make this comment now even though it it is somewhat off subject but it's on subject there's another issue on the table I think that perhaps we need to address that is we have conflicting reports we have Milliman who's given a set of numbers we have another piece of that in here the calls into question those numbers would like to have the discussion about maybe having the bureau do a comparison of the information because were picked between who we want to believe here and I think that for any decision moving forward we need to have something that we can draw our own conclusions where it's not numbers coming from a actuary that's hired by DHS for a the opinion of the neck economists hired by an attorney who represents the association and I really think that something we need to throw in discussion because that's gonna have a lot of bearing moving forward I think in a lot areas thank you I think that's what represented Miller's motion is is trying to do a senator Irvin you're recognized so just yet so let's just you know right so. We represent consolidate as your question for you if you don't mind but we've been paying this record retroactively to January one of this year so we went ahead say when I had an emergency fashion and put this one point four percent rate increase in a facts right So if we don't review the and let's just say we killed the whole thing. Do we then stop. July one we stopped at one point four percent. I hesitate to give a definitive answer on because I think we're going to with our lawyers and just and just see where we are on that see what's permissible and what's not but that is a risk nam remote another's a another provider group and last year so we're we had a similar issue and they they wanted a proposed increase stop they wanted a larger increase they're still at that lowest rate they they haven't got the increase we recommended they've got nothing since then because they haven't worked with this and we're just kind of in in flux so all that to say I mean personally. To me be a better result for them to get the one point four now and let us work for and see where we can land on an additional look at this in the fall rather than nothing okay so in reference. The so so it does risk I mean to be clear if if if we kill the whole thing it's going to stop the one point four percent gonna stop I mean I think that's pretty fair because you have nothing legally to stand on you have an emergency rule that's been in place but. There's no rule that says this is now the current situation so then it would stop it definitely raise that question yes I mean. It's pretty simple common sense math but. To senator hammer's point yes Senator hammer if we did that it would require legislation so and I I don't I'm not saying whether I think that may be a a a a good option to me a good idea to do independent but that would require legislation and that would be at the next session that you would see something like that and then my final comment is I understand you're talking about a Cola but no provider rates to my knowledge correct me if I'm wrong or I'm asking this question DHS I don't think that we have provider rates that are based on colas cost of living adjustments that that scheduled that are that schedule annually of an annual increase every year that's not the case because we've had testimony that a lot of these rates have not been reviewed for fourteen years nineteen years eccentrics that are at that's not built in to. Rates from my understanding so is that correct that is correct so to me that would be kind of a non starter conversation I understand increase in rates but an annual. Percentage Cola is something very different. So I just wanted to see if that was correct yes ma'am it is. Okay Senator Irvin can I respond out so the Cola came from the Milliman report that had a Cola built in to that's how they came out with their figure. We didn't have the color in correct. So the report that the department received from the independent company have the color we didn't just out that peace and there we were replicating what. Based on the expenses that I think it was eighty percent of the provider hours in the state had been done that was where the service came from we tried to replicate that that was the charge that we gave the attorney is we need someone to replicate this with the numbers that we're giving you that are actual costs okay I'd like to ask that the Milliman report beasts email to me and then I would also ask for you to email your report to me as well thank you. Representative Gonzalez did you have another question. Yeah I do thank you Mr chair and it's just kind of procedural I guess as to so you. The one point four percent is been paid out since January first ride yes what risk losing it if we don't review this what happens if we just deferred this and hold it over give you all a chance to come back to this work on a little more would that still risk stopping this or is that just putting it off and. I think it depends on whether not we can still take it to rules next week and I just I don't know the it is there a bodies rules well I guess staff is there a time frame on that on these emergency rules as to how long they can stay in place without some type of review. Mark do you know when that emergency rule expires. Is the the the actual is taken was providing funding and that funding was for this fiscal year only saw I would say that expires at the very latest at the end of this fiscal year. Would be June yes three thirty. All right what staff is telling me is that when the emergency rule expires on June the thirtieth that would go away unless this goes to rules and distribute next week. Just another question Representative. Senator hammer you're recognized point of clarification either for the I'll get I'll ask mark the question. So the one point four if this gets approved out here today. The one point four is going to continue past the end of the fiscal year is that correct yes Sir if it doesn't get approved out here the one point four either ends at the end of the emergency rule period or the end of worst case scenario the end of the fiscal year and it goes back to whatever it was before the one point four I suspect so but as I said I think that that raises some some some side legal issue I think we have to work there are attorneys with but my guess is yes by June third. Then I would it Mr corona go back to what Senator sample last you you're you're kind on the spot here You hear all this discussion walking out of here with with this like poker walk I here was something is better than walking out here with nothing. Yes Sir I I with. Definitely on the spot and I'm not sure that I can speak for the group I can only speak for myself for that so I'm not I wouldn't feel comfortable we didn't have to Senate Irvine's comment earlier we didn't have a discussion about okay yeah you're prepared to go in and say we'll take nothing and have them to you know claw the claw the right back so I wouldn't I would not feel comfortable making a recommendation one way or the other on that. Without going back to your sensation yeah exactly all right and madam chair Mister chair I'd like to request which senator Irvin asked for to be sent to myself for maybe could be sent out to all committee with regards to the Milliman report and the other numbers that were sent out in one the email if possible thank you did you send that to Mister price and you get out to everybody I will. Okay alright. Absent a Miller you're recognized again up. Let me. Before you make your motion. Again we've got these four options. Little bit of information I would just given if we we can do and not review it still could go to rules even if we don't review it or we take no action it still could go to rules if we defer it. Then it stays here. Is my understanding. So you're recognized Mister. Of thank you Mr chair and actually before make the most I just wanna ask I don't know if it's the chairs are staff for somebody. Am I the only one. The case of feeling. No matter what we do. We basically have no input. Whatsoever and am I right here on the island by myself in that. Failing. Because I'm a I'm a what I'm here right now as well if we if we don't do this in the school go way they're gonna get nothing there continue get screwed if we if we if we do this then we're going to rest. Sticking it to them even worse and all we're trying to do is I don't so. I don't understand this process are even why we're here if we can't make changes. Well does I think you can you can stop this here and then they would be there be further discussion to maybe change that but the consequence of doing that would be a loss of pay they would lose this one point four percent. That's just the consequence of which one you do they're gonna lose the one the one point four percent supposed kick and July one. No it's already I sent it's and bill go away July one. It's been in since January one you will go away June thirtieth if we don't review it Douglas Melvyn study that just came out supposedly at some in the last little bit recommended. It says one point four percent. Increase but basically it means continue just doing what you're doing and there's no increase if they were already getting it. Mark you want to comment on that yes Sir the the mill report came out last year and it that was the the basis for the one point four okay. But it went into effect January ones that correct yes Sir. Well that being the case Mr chair when I was in college I got gas money by playing poker. And I'm all go for it and I say let's let's make a motion to defer. And let's get DHS and others to come back was something that I think everybody in here will feel more comfortable with are we run a risk maybe so but it's our job unless make changes and we need to meet again. Then I'm I'm okay with that. Okay. So that's my motion to defer do you want to put a time on that deferred for thirty days until the next meeting. We can talk about it again. I say we deferred until. What what is it what is your schedule the next meeting. Twenty second June first black two weeks from now well that wouldn't be so these be at least thirty days. So your motion is two different. That we will leave it. I would like to defer it. At a minimum until our next meeting in may be DHS could come back with a better proposal. Right okay the most in two weeks second that can happen in this immediate consideration. Yes Sir. Can't meet a consideration deferred. It was is not. So you move your motion is to defer and immediate consideration on the motion sure yes Sir. Their second. I have a second. Okay it's immediate consideration so we will vote on the motion. The motion is to defer. All in favor signify by saying aye hi all opposed nay are. The ayes have it motion carries. When we get to your. Ninety. Okay a committee were down the item Q.. Joe come forward. Please introduce yourself for the record. Mike overpaid department of energy environment. You may proceed I'm here to present rule twenty seven. They are the primary The amendment to the rule is simply to allow municipalities and counties to have the same opportunity to train and certify their code enforcement officers to. manage environmental eight she's. Glad to take any questions. All right you committee heard a presentation of any questions okay we go. Representative Gonzalez recognized. So does eighty Q. not have another enforcement officers or the set the reason for this rule. I know Sir. We had IT CEOs which were part of the solid waste district. Municipalities and counties would have code enforcement officers they could send them to school but they can get him certified under the old law so we changed the law in two thousand nineteen to allow the city's and then made a counties to get certified as well trained. That's all this does it so give them up to be educated and certified. For code enforcement whether it be for the city or for the county or for the state environmental off. Also a permit book was issued and is creating issued to the AG's office so we have some areas where one county provides multiple county coverages and the made it easier for them to be able to use one ticket booking one ticket but to go stay at different counties to do the enforcement. It is primarily for the environmental issues. Like illegal dumping and lettering and things of that nature. Get a question well no not really we do and just. Yeah I guess I'm just having a hard time seeing. Why we need the city and county out there do and enforcement that falls underneath AT queue are you. And actually fell under the solid waste districts eighty Q. does enforcement which we oversee the solid waste districts correct no Sir we don't oversee the solid waste districts we have no control over the phone relationship. Our only a movie you are only authority is in the enforcement of the permission we issue. Or if there is no one else to go and check that a place of illegal dumping practice we go in we make a report and then we try to find some local authority they can manage that problem winners to side wishes strict the county or the city. So will this take eighty two completely out of the illegal don't know sure no sure we still provide the support for it but there needs to be boots on the ground and we have the boots on the ground but when we deal with for instance the city will call us and say I've got a dumping issue here they have no training how to deal with it so they call us if it will if I could get training and certification I could do this on my own. But by law they weren't allowed to do that and so what the act did in two thousand eighteen lists provide them the opportunity to go to to southern Arkansas university environmental college get certified after three a course. And then have the knowledge and the ability to make down their own. And then use us simply if support. Okay. All right seeing no further questions this rule stands is reviewed thank you thank you. Okay we're down to item are. Sixty ward if you would come for. Hello. Yes. Hello. Yes you're not up on the agenda yet. We can hear you. Okay sector what you would introduce yourself for the record. Yes Sir west fork from the Arkansas department culture surgery for the part and also the chairman of the buffalo river conservation committee may proceed. Yes Sir so so just wanted to you we submitted an exhibit for the committee but they wanted to give a little background there there's the this exhibit itself is only about ten pages it could be a lot more expensive than that a lot of different topics going on within the buffalo river conservation committee Sir what this exhibit does just to fill up a brief background in time out of our efforts over the last really seven months or so so going back to November fifteenth of two thousand nineteen last year is when they'll see approved one million dollars in the governor's discretionary fund to go towards the B. R. C. C. efforts that was tied also with one million dollars that was promise from from part private donors to also participate in B. or C. C. efforts as a mover for from their December we we establish a seventeen member subcommittee to assist the B. or C. C. efforts that consists of four legislative members to include senator Irvin Senator Davis represent a Fortner and Representative slate both all four there's participating in a B. or C. C. efforts we've we've have this year and like many others have have been the victim of some adverse weather earlier in the year and then going into March when the state has first coronavirus case some of their first were were postponed a little bit so over the last month month and a half we really kind of try to revamp our efforts as part of why we wanted to get their support to your own just to give you an update of where we are have part of the commitment from us from the governor's office as we move forward in regards to the funding to one million dollars in the governor's discretionary fund that was prevail city as well as one million dollars from partners is that we would it stay in close coordination with public health committee and and keep you all informed of what we were doing and how we were proceeding then also present those proposals to you all before money was distributed Sir what what you have in front of you is a proposal that we received and reviewed at our last B. or C. CA meet. In held on June second which includes four size from pay roads as well as three sites that were propose for a water wastewater treatment facilities I did want to add one thing that's not on here just a an important point not including the exhibit is the effort that has taken place on some some broader areas so when we first met B. R. C. C. first met in February we met up in Marshall the the seventeen member subcommittee had a great discussion of religion that focus really on four key areas that was one because sure programs writer culture I'm pay roads water wastewater infrastructure and treatment facilities as well as tourism tourism impacts because your programs rare culture we we've been doing some pretty significant work on that area and and that's something that we've identified we're not going to need that with the one million dollars contributed for B. R. CC because we've been able to partner leopards other funding so too big announcements this year already February twenty seventh was when USDA announced a two point three million dollars to go towards Arkansas that would go for water quality enforced health model of habitat and then on April sixteenth US the USDA and house are CPP for the buffalo river watershed enhancement project that's about a five point four million dollar project so just a USDA programs and we have some partnership commitments there that's about seven point seven million dollars in USDA programs that are going towards a lot of ever still within the water should within the buffalo river watershed some of the joint chiefs for proposal that was announced on forever twenty seventh worked in and other watersheds but some point seven million total that's been committed from USDA so far of that one million of the dot one million dollars that's that with that partner contribution that was that was mentioned earlier that's going to go towards this or CPP program so they've they've committed to that are morally that that effort within the buffalo river watershed and then just internally from with. In the department we found about six hundred thousand dollars a match not not from that other funding that were just contributing from our own efforts from within the department of agriculture itself so a lot of a lot of very positive progress a lot partnerships be informed a lot of work being done and what what you have before you as for that exhibit is just the proposals that we receive from pave roads as well as the water and wastewater projects himself I will just just for the sake of transparency and and FOR forward to the committee you know these these were approved you we we had subcommittee meetings on both of these projects from papers as well as water and wastewater they didn't have any objections to move before they went to the B. or C. C. as a whole other was in the objections on June second but over the last week since we've had it me what we know that some of these projects need some additional refinement and clarity so it we we will have to a depending on the pleasure of the committee probably have to come back and give some additional refinement and detail of of of the finalized details of these programs on how they they will be implemented but a lot of really proper positive progress so far and and really some additional partnerships and we're looking forward to expanding with the US for service department transportation National Park Service and others to continue that letter to leverage that funding that was approved by the Legislative Council to to go to the maximum extent. But answering questions so these these actions and things that you're talking about that was accomplished that was accomplished through these committees that were formed that we we had meetings up there and we talk to the local folks in the form committees and over there were people from both sides of the question the buffalo river at those meetings and they were put on these committees so my question is have they been involved house their involvement they've been attending meetings that they have input and I maybe the representatives or the center would like to comment on that but what's your opinion Mister secretary in their involvement of both sides of these issues yes Sir Sir what you're really you're going back to our our meeting in Marshall in February with a seventeen member subcommittee of the intent from beginning from from the legislature from the governor has been for these decisions to be of your based off of people within within the watershed to decide what they want that to be used on Sir admits that I will say were read a starting point at least if if not further than that on on the proposals of how to spend it so of the proposals in self had had separate subcommittees we divided and FOR topic areas and there was four groups have met on those proposals and that was of the the seventy member subcommittee as well as the staff within the departments from department our culture part of health energy environment and part part surges and encouraging. Struthers thank you Mr chair appreciate that thank you Sir Terry ward being here today in the you're exactly right on that February meeting when the subcommittee met with committee there as a first time I've seen a lot of excitement about having the government government partnership be thing in that area because we don't like them revenues up there and then dollar heals so I can tell you for sure so there was some excitement that of of saying but I've seen that the you've been able to use some of this money to leverage it even farther than what we initially thought when we met in February and that is a very great deal the only questions of god is some some road projects there and it's one and so for a completely understand but sought to incite three the the it's on the tributaries of the bow flow many miles away from the buffalo and hung C. were one and FOR is exactly the right on the buffalo is there a certain reason what the county judge of what did he have say about site to three. That would that would be one of those areas we need some additional refinement and it's you we had our our crew we we have unpaid rose within the department of agriculture they had the and I think represent Fortner also participated and looking at some roads within the area but I know that there's been some some challenges and in regards to a couple their sights on just getting the full commitment from the county so sorry again for full full transparency we we've got this proposed sites have been submitted they they will have to do some some additional refinement before there's to be finalized and and completely and paper written agreements on there is so there there may be have to be some adjustments on that but that may have had some difficulties Richmond county judge on those projects okay thank you miss secretary thank you and your subcommittees though the people in the area that is helping you guys working with an exciting for them they say that they can they actually got a voice there there helping govern instead of being ruled and we thank you and your committee for all you're doing. Thank you Mr chair. Senator Irvin. Yes thank you and thank you so much secretary Wagner at. Members this is a great example of how. We came together to different branches coming together to really wrestle this thing to the grounds in my opinion and created incredible state colder into it that is so important for good governments and it's so important to create good policy and and I want to highlight the efforts that that has already created so it had we stayed in kind of our side load thing we would not have been able to really branch out in my opinion and created all these partnerships and found all this money right so that's the cool thing about this is that we because we are being intentional because we're being focused because we are involved in so many different stake holders and getting all those voices at the table we've actually been able to see all my goodness USDA has this money and USDA has this money and and it we create this puzzle in this tapestry and we realize guess what we don't have to fill that hole because there's another source of revenue that can fill that hole so that allows us into shift over here and when we do that we become better stewards of taxpayers dollars so this is a great model that we need to replicate in a lot of different areas in my opinion so I was very as skeptical about the buffalo river conservation committee when it was announced informed but then you know we got involved Representative flavored represent represent Fortner and Senator Davis and you know all of this we got involved in Representative Ladyman we held great meetings up there and this is the result of it and it's awesome so we need to celebrate that not be we don't need to shy away from that level of collaboration and partnership in working together we actually need to embrace and do more of it in so many areas and that's why I really wanted to speak and have this reported. Hey because a it highlights good governments be IT highlights you get a policy from it see you become a better steward of taxpayers dollars when you actually put in the work and be intentional and be focused and we do that together great and then D.. Look at where we've been able to focus and I loved it I think when we had the call there were so many people on that call and it's because we invited them to be a part of it and their voices are being heard just like represents light said but the other thing tourism in the tourism impacts part of the reason why this committee met and discussed that and didn't spend all the money and I will put on record I will be asking for a reappropriation of this money for the next fiscal year because at this because we weren't able to spend all this money just yet because all these things have popped up we we did have just been venting their so good things but because of the coveted that group hasn't been able to meet yet and so we wanted to reserve some of that money to make sure and and I will say because of the last thing. The buffalo river is a beautiful place and we I love it we flow the buffalo river it's a huge part of my in my district and all of our areas in north central Arkansas but what occurred to me is once we've gone through this exercise and we have met and we've had this report and we're doing the work what is the current to me is that it's a national river this been designated the National Park Service has a presence there but there is limited resources that have been cut back from the federal government over many many years and so the state of Arkansas you know we we got this kind of put in our laps minutes hours but the national designation occurs but then we as a state really didn't do anything intentional about it and I say that because we are seeing the effects of that so if if it's the state park you know we are very intentional about how we utilize that area how we direct visitors to that area how we maintain that area how we we have the designation and here's how we mitigate traffic here's where we park here's where we we have restrooms we have stat we were more intentional about that we have not done that with the buffalo river and because we have not been intentional about the usage the tourism and the usage we're all just surprised that there are just excited to come to Arkansas we're just like great that's wonderful you're from New York that's wonderful you're from Washington you're just gonna have to let me roll here because I'm on a roll but it's great it's wonderful and that's Arkansas come to our neighborhood come to our come and explore employ in our backyard. But because we haven't done that we have had a dramatic effect on the infrastructure of that area and and and Newton county and Searcy county particularly those two counties have really been left holding the back without a lot of support from us and so that's really my huge take away from this is that we really need to and if we do it and we do this rights. Then we're going to see and tourism increase which is going to be better for our economy. But we have to do it right we have to just not invite them to the backyards but we have to have a seat at the table for them we have to we have to organize that a little bit better so you know hawksbill crag has become as social media if an phenom and so people are traveling there in droves just to go to house bill crack I mean I have my friends got it my kids go to university of Florida and university of Florida is bringing groups of kids to Arkansas to float the buffalo and got a hawksbill correct I mean that's and so because of social media we are now seeing ending enormous increase but let's harness that and let's figure out how to harness that and utilize that for the betterment of these areas so I'm just super excited about where we're going but again I want to just highlight it's a great model for us to be able to replicate in a lot of areas and I think we'd be all lot better off in the arc in Arkansas if we did that thank you for the latitude. Represented Fortner you're recognized. Thank you Mr chairman. I am blessed with two senators that have plenty to say. I've got Missy it's got Flippo both blessed my love of. No they're both great You know this this committee is a good thing and this million dollars that we told the people up in north central Arkansas. They are ready to sleep is right. We are skeptical of I'm going to take care of you. We're going to give you a million we're going to do this. What we are going to have the ability to do at least two of these unpaved road projects are going to get done and get done soon and will get done so the citizens of that area can see that we did what we said we were going to do we have the ability to do that from start to finish any year show them that we have done what we said we would do not just give them words. We have that we have that ability and is going to happen through this committee. I went out and walked. About a mile of this one wrote with the people from the conservation nature concert nat nature Conservancy and the unpaved roads people an agricultural reps and I walked with. Those are people who don't always agree. That was a collaborative effort they did that in a perfect most professional manner for the good of that road in the area and the buffalo I was proud of them. This can get done and this is right. We can be proud of what we do here secretary ward we just need to get on it and get something and show the people yes. We are going to do what we said we are here's the results and you have that opportunity and and I'm here to help you push it and we ought we all are. Mr. Senator hammer you're recognized thank you Mr chair secure ward in order for this to be duplicated across the state is it going to require national designation of the area to receive the funding that you were able to tap into this. I I think to duplicate that ever I don't think that it would I think this was a. To to the legislators for this in reference point you know this was a seventeen member subcommittee for this effort of people within that area saying and here's what we know what we see here so we're talking to you here's what we think we can do and then letting letting there's people within that area of figure out what can be levers and who who needs help what doesn't need help what's important what's not important so I don't think it requires a national designation to be able to replicate that. So the money that you leverage from the federal government if I understand right you are able to leverage money from the federal government correct that's correct was that money leverage from the federal government though directly associated with an area being the national designation area that otherwise if it's not nationally designated we wouldn't have access to that money. I'm sure it was probably part of the consideration but I I knew for the the the joint chiefs proposal for that that first UST program is for two point three million here that was much more of a Ozark and and wash told initial forced effort you between in our CS and US for service so we didn't have your it'd expands beyond the buffalo river watershed so would just because the national designation and same for RC B. B. it was much more at you're looking at and showing her supporters if if we have certain amount of federal dollars what's there to partner levers that from local and and stay contributions as well and and and I I will I can say enough about USDA in the state of Arkansas the state conservation's Mike sold and it but if they find ways to to help make projects like this happens what I think it I think it can be replicated okay thank you Sir. Okay I think we have secretary key on zoom that wants to make a comment. Secretary can you hear me. I can can you hear me this afternoon yes we can hear you you're recognized. Thank you so much and I just wanted to come in the not only the committee members spent the Senator representing for their support this is particularly important as we see these investments coming in from our federal state and local partners and this trust that you talk about we're trying to build in delivering some kind of quickly and or in your and she that we can you know generate real factual projects often Sir and FOR so thank you to all of you that's been involved and it's also providing a very affecting state model being nationally recognized by the US EPA as a waiter sure high water quality in such a special water sentence in the buffalo river so I really commend it's not only being recognized here locally but nationally as a model so thank you senator Irvin and we need to help the it's for located not only in Arkansas but across the country and we're very impressed with these conservation efforts because they are very important is we all want to enjoy the river like you do but also the. Enjoy the watershed for recreation and also as a resource to our state and that's so important or and or culture and our other uses in our communities there that house beautiful Watership but again thank you for your time I just wanted to throw in my two cents worth thanks surgery award for his leadership in chairmanship and building off the successes that we work so hard of the last few years to build going forward so. Or to working with all of you. Thank you sector for those comments in I think this we get somebody else. Represent Richmond you're recognized. Thank you Mr chair and I'll make this for short but just because we are dealing with the government I heard something that scared me and that is something about the government actually helping on this thing because I can say the last time the government help me I ended up in an undisclosed country with a handful of marines not enough ammunition surrounded by a whole bunch folks then like me. And so the only thing is there any we're within a tax this money small print. From the federal government that would attach these water ways or anything else to do any of those efforts to basically nationalize all or water ways and stuff that you're aware of. First first ever photo certain appreciate that comment about the marines but I I I will say you know certainly you the the federal dollars that we're leveraging it was especially the USDA funding and that that's the extent of the levers that we're do isn't doing so for all of those are voluntary programs those are voluntary sign up voluntary participation no one forced to do that you and I know that there was an effort several years ago on on the national Blue ways and different things like that so there there's nothing nothing remotely similar to that as far as you're trying to to re designate other national waters or any other fine print commitments on on any any of the efforts. All right be a fellow marine I'll take that at face value and super fight thank you Mr chair. All right I think that's all the questions we have but I I'd like to add a comment at and I was an outsider in this project and you know I I appreciate all the work in your leadership secretary and in many others and our legislators you know I'm proud of what you all did go in the real world able and working and and I I think this is a model or boiler plate they can be used throughout the state in this sector keel said maybe even in the nation but you know what what kick this off the P. think back you know. Let me put it this way if you want to kill the lines you got to go in the line and in in being an outsider from northeast Arkansas when I went to those meetings up there in the hills and they thought I was a federal guy I thought I was in the lines the in but the point is and we got some very pointed questions and a lot of enthusiasm on both sides some of it was negative and directed at us but that's okay but but really to go in there to talk to people and to get their input and to let them vent a little bit which is what some of them did that kind of kick this off and I think that's got to be part of the model is that you have to go in there and and and the harvest the the anger basically and get it started and I think that's what this team did along with the folks that on your committee so thank you for a job well done and thanks for comments. Yes Sir and I appreciate that again thank you to all legislators for for all the help and you know add Senator kos point you know between myself and her and secretary Hearst and and what would normally be doctor Smith but he's been a little bit busy with the crown of arson so doctrinal for department felt that that is been it certainly team effort on our on our end to your help maximize and leverage as much as possible I believe the other comment I would just kind of finish with this your we're or available you we made a commitment early on to whenever the public health committee had a question or want to talk about any of these were or be able to come back any time to give an update and and maybe that is a question maybe we can have off line of for this just the exact spending for now kinda to represent slaves point as well if if there is approval now to maybe proceed with sought one and thought for of them favorites as well as the Janice for proposals well Sir I'll defer to all if there's a recommendation from the committee on how we proceed or if you don't want to come back with the a more detailed and FOR proposal later okay thank you. I'll just make a comment okay you're recognized and I mean I I don't think that this requires in the action from this committee that I'm an I know that these are projects that have been proposed and leave you know the committee made the initial approval I think if the committee needs to go back and if there's adjustments that need to be made we need to make sure we understand those as the buffalo river conservation committee and then maybe June twenty second we have a meeting scheduled we could come back and give an update that gets about two weeks to work out any of these. It issues are bug so that may occur and do a little more research on those other two projects I guess center and Newton county then then perhaps we can go ahead and do that with that be okay okay. And I'll just finalized by sand and papers program for the great. I wrote it but. Well again it is a great program and thank you Representative Fortner for walk and I've been down this road too and the nature Conservancy has done a phenomenal job with that program to as you all have thank you. All right we're gonna move on to item S.. So doctor sharply are you on soon can you hear us. If you meet yeah there you are yeah we can hear you and we can see you so committee we're on item S. so doctor sharp if you would introduce yourself for the record and then you can proceed. A I work for the division fact because of the university of Arkansas in the department of crop soil and environmental sciences. All right you may go ahead with presentation. Okay I'm so as part of that and I did lead the team that was designated to do the monitoring on bakery after the farm operation went in I'm going to share a screening go very quickly you through a few slides that will set the scene probably just help you if you don't know the area I'm sure a lot of you're familiar with that but just wanted to refresh and so let's make this. This will work. You can see the sights. Yes we can see it. Okay all right I'll keep this short sweet Oakley pharmacist into that. The you know what we started wondering and that September late last year and We were originally challenge to look at the Get to look at the The impact of new transit plied I'm back here that were applied in slurry as construct farm operation see if what the was any impact on the area water quality. We were also let you that charge with the looking at other major we your treatment options might be available to the phone that they can house export owned or treat them in your that he could be of a different you some land application. And then finally we would be looking at trump doing business scientific technically valid way that would provide transparent unbiased science for the landowners and the state to make informed decisions. So this is that the river watershed the green there that you can see along the little river is the national pop. Being the senior generation is not there and read and just give you approximate area and this is the big creek watershed a tributary of the buffalo. And so what we did we Senate hold several areas upstream and downstream of the farm upstream and then at the top of the picture here. Treatment so looking at differences there might reflect the impact to the stream of the of the that the phone operation on the street we're also looking at what was in the fields and that the west Lowery was being applied and we wanted to to feels that had received story five and FOR Arkham twelve three one twelve you'll find didn't receive slurring we use that as a basic control for normal and practices in the area we also look to the well around the holding area of the holding ponds which circles that are and stream that rain that area what we do we we took weekly six grab samples that would reflective of low flows and then we had equipment out there that collected stole samples for as and so we had a range of what we call low and high flows okay slows and on when brought those back to the land a same day within eight hours study analysis and so not just for first sentiment and bacteria. We also look to run off coming off of those three feels and I will just briefly give you the main findings you do have a a written notification of bollocks Fiscal little bit more detail When the application feels this field Wong as you see in some test phosphorus if you're not a farmer is what is used to determine how much house for service in the field in your soil as plans available and it's this is common extraction but anyway just color coded with the dark green being the lowest in the red being the highest you can see two thousand fourteen at the we waited in and what we call read something we talk about seventy samples across the field in about a quarter to their great so we got a large number of samples banking each year Dalby sorry every two years to the same spot to get another sample and so what you see here and fourteen was was before any land application before the FAMAS at started applying AT slurry to these feels should you see a couple of high areas there and read on just fourteen as a probably around and shade trees. You get a few more red areas and FOR sixteen and eighteen you have a large area read so what that just tells is that so far as first was it was building up in the sauce. Thank you twelve gender highlighted guerriers it is is the field in the it is the same note notification here colors coded what was what was a parent here is if you will come back to it in a minute is that this area the red expanded from fourteen to eighteen It was quite a large area of the field so those pretty high levels now so far as reasonable in those feels there was no application made at with those the buffer about so you meet is the around the agency's feels and it was a great a distance of over fifty about a hundred meters with the on the stream bank area to minimize that was part of the plan of the comprehensive nutrient management on the phone was work base in these applications on whether it could where they could not by so what we so or is it were some high levels here. That were in the areas in two thousand fourteen before when your that one high you need it why the weather was known UP. Lastly this is you'll find wage Long story short didn't receiving the pristine mineral fast. Slurry but did receive mineral fertilizer it received what the cultural seventeen small I'm not you know force first each year to maintain large gross to to grace council and they cut Haiti I'm seeing the the levels didn't change that much over the years were most of the feelings most of the field are either in that medium or. All to read this is. One of the things that we found and we want to things we learned and it's and and well actually gave you any got your hand that is that There was these areas which for reading two thousand fourteen more pricing slurry so that this or other factors going on the in addition to the story application I was crazy and we get a letter landowners know that you know we felt the grazing was act here these areas are fed at the scary which will Fite gate where Hey was fed to the. Total eight okay there. I would really go off into the shade trees and in the summer months but I'm there is this overlapping complications year of the impact to racing as well as the new trump managing the management and the management of the slayer that's being applied to those those fields. Respective all whether it it reversed back to the the amount you can contribute to them. Slurry of raising which would constitute because that's just technically not. Usable is point in time with the technology we have it does point out the boss management of council as well as slurry and lies replications do need to get moneys cafe on the seals. Looking at the well water we do see an increase in the well concentrations of nitrate this is an element that trans that the nutrients in the soil it is house limits for the PA or Hans million. Seeing about on occasion on the house house committees so it's below the drinking water standards the EPA require but it has increased consistently over the appear at of time of monitoring again we're not quite sure why that would be this well drags water and took a three hundred foot yes I'm Neal the holding ponds But what we also so is chloride there's a very large amount of chloride a several thousand and Graham milligrams of that The leader of water is a lot of chloride and. That does not change biologically or chemically it's freedom will be to move in the soil and it didn't We did what we conclude from that is that the only time we will monitoring five year as we did not see it we can say you should get it we did not see a change in the amounting nitrates coming into or should either upstream or downstream of the of the senior generation. And then finally here but in this into some context the red dots are in the Illinois river watershed from what it's been done page and from eighty two sites park service monitoring the overtime the green one this sorry it back up that. The first. All right of the green the office than the beaver wars shipped same thing from his start date to and then the awful the blue ones out from. The park service monitoring of the buffalo diff what should and so all these points are and will. Reached over purity rectal and they missed like different small will be shipped within that was lodging what we should talk. one there is dominated by pastor and and so what this. development all cash mortgage activity you get. Rations of nitrogen on nitrate in those ACT creek straining those watersheds. The same as the states is this area or its cost it's similar watersheds to the one. Rating and so connections some context over the five years that we with them on the street this is what we mention upstream. Downstream and so we felt this point online the what we're seeing in the streams especially in terms of nitrate reflected Was. Where you use other shared in this within this region. It does give us down the road in these types of situations looking at it longer it's you can see if the. The watershed Mr Speaker if those numbers were increasing above the line outside this yellow area then you get you know you want to be concerned in the. Look at what what money should be. And so with that. The details which are probably. One available and. One million ways so I will stop sharing and and thank you thank you for your time. All of the are you won't take couple questions from the group. Would you take a couple of questions from the committee. Can you hear me OK yes yes okay my I have a couple first so nitrate chlorine and the those elements that you talked about are are naturally occurring in the soil correct. Yes in small amounts. Yes so you also said that these readings were all below the drinking water standard correct. Yes string string the only one I it really has a drinking water standards but yes. So and it was well below was the way I look at this chart it was. Not very close to the drinking water standard limit was well below that. Right there are of the standards that you could you know that there are ecological habitats done so but you know those are will last they have more variable but you know. So the. That in the context to okay also it looks like. Some of the sample that you were taking here were from groundwater stand Graham water wells and around the slurry pump or a pond and then others were in the field where they were treating those feels with. maneuver basically slurry correct. Correct. So and also you you mentioned that. in one of the feels that the nitrate was high at the beginning and you referred to the cattle operation and Hey as maybe being part of the reason for that ninety being high did I hear you correctly on that. Yes the duty correction make there is it was that sauce for some kind of bailable foster since saw what was on ice cry it to eight story being applied one field yes so isn't it true that We have cattle there you have you know I have manure from that operation you also have Hey which when it breaks down some of these elements might be deposited from from is the hair the animals that correct that's. That's true I think they're probably the bigger yes the bigger company contributed that would be counsel at eating in them doing that staying in that in that area But yes you're right there is a contribution from from either the hay on the council Gracie I thank of I heard you're right some of those concentrations were where the cattle congregated. The ES initiate or whatever okay someone shady areas to all right all right thank you we've got a couple more questions. Senator hammer you're recognized thank you Mr chair and thank you Sir for your presentation. The results that you've got in this area on this particular Research wouldn't necessarily be the same results at this farm is located in another part of the state in a different type of soul would that be a fair statement. Thank you for state yes okay because one of the concerns I don't know if anybody else has but I have that there seems to be an effort to target farm operations and specially hog operations and if somebody wanted to use this report for the benefit of that purpose state might have a hard time doing that if say that farm location was located in east Arkansas are west Arkansas or somewhere else would that be a fair statement you know most have to do a whole separate analysis depending on where the farm's located and the soil is sitting on is that a fair statement. Yeah I think that the little clarification I think that the it's as a statement in the sale of someone's going to defer the ward showed the lower ward is going to look different ways so yes it is different but I think the general principles probably Light but the time lines and the amounts would need to be and you look at it that they would be very site specific yes. Did you happen to in your research determine the size of the farm that. And the concentration of which the animals are located on that farm might have as far as an effective you know being over the acceptable limits. I'm not quite sure You got your answer in terms of the number of animals on the I think that was the detected by the you know the comprehensive nutrient management plan that was second place. Okay alright thank you where the number of animals. Group two great from what we did total while our work if that was the question I think that's something that we. the wait wait we was sampling and the way we did I don't think we could we could make a very reliable conclusion on that no. Okay thank you. Representative Bentley you're recognized. Thank you for your report I just have a quick question listed here report you said that Absent the use of techniques to reduce their trance call in this or that over to our is our other techniques available to to reduce the new trend available in the slurry at this point other techniques available to do that are now. And. There are and I think that the farm I had several people. approach him and he's like like a lot of people at that that come to see an opportunity and I think you got a lot of people that came to him offering to treat the at and sometimes it sounds too good to be sent on to good to be true then the reason so the bottom line is you have that there were other than one was surprised Maddox A. C. Keating GM. Hi eight G. high cost to burn everything all and we look to this locally sourced a line and from the area that we could makes with the menu or and then sell it as a you know a special on a forty five as long as a. In principle it works unlike a lot of those things the center with digestion this reserve clone physical separation of the solids and liquids They're not economical or a specific a bird given sama to implement at this point in time. There are technologies out there but that there are high cost I know this is a group in the university this looking at trying to create energy from using your and in terms of the digestion process so is this technology maybe down the road but I think at the moment the. costly and also it's like a lot of Equipment you might get on your own property at home is pretty don sophisticated and if you got training to run it doesn't run like the manual says it's supposed to so you have you know a lot of this does take. Thank you have the technology but it also takes a lot of experience to actually do it and so. Long story short I think there are ways but I don't think this and what we see at the moment is buyable so the bomb community to adults yes. Okay thank you just two quick clarification so you did say there was no chloride look so you didn't sent the wells at the ponds there at all were leaking because since any change in the chloride as far as at the out at the farm itself we even think those and leaking going on in the Sorry I think that the point was that there's a loss of chloride in in the and also in the in your in the palms in the slurry. If the policy be leaking we felt that that would be more fluoride in those wells But we get to see that this is there's nothing in the store over rocks could remove that chloride is just an inner soluble element that will move through the sole two three Lee with with Walter to to the ground the more okay so that's a point making that are and. It it. What we call a lot of weight of evidence suggests that upon homes retain their integrity and the way that would be constructed. Great thank you so you're saying over on your server that you can see any pollution or increasing I trance over drinking water from the scene a child form in the five years that you were studying it. We. He's and over drinking water no get to clarify that point is it didn't know that was a stand that in some contexts but the water was being used to drinking water I this but and. Eight it's not above those levels there are other ecological levels but god knows or related to streams that is trying to put it into some context there was an increase in the well That announced not that's indisputable at what point trying to make is that It was a small increase if you go to I. award and look at some of the farms there and ward is it's draining from yields into the Mississippi you know they have levels in excess of twenty seventeen house committee on that that's what they're concerned with so on them obviously we're not there. You know this is just a greeting to some context great I really appreciate your port thank you. Your. Okay Looks sharply thank you very much we have no more questions I don't see any more questions thank you very much for your presentation. You're welcome thanks very much. All right committee went down at the bottom of the agenda I just like to add one thing. I know a lot of people have left but for all for all of you that have stayed. couple of comments that really struck me one was represented Miller talking about will you know why are we here where we have an impact. And then the other one was that forget who it was said we we really need to look at the corona nineteen and work on some suggestions to give back to the apartment health and to the to the governor and you know I think that's things that we need to do and and I think one the reasons were not effective is we're not using our subcommittees and we need to because these are items that can go to a subcommittee and be studied more in detail smaller group and suggestions so we have three subcommittees of this public health committee we have health services Human Services labor and environmental. So the chairman of labor and environmental subcommittee is Representative Penzo and Representative brown is the last year and I've talked to record Representative Penzo about. Maybe thinking about having a meeting of that subcommittee and and working on a list of recommendations that this committee might be able to approve and then send to the department of health or the governor as suggestions you know on re opening on whatever this related to what we deal with here so we're going to meet on the twenty second. The chairs of that committee might want to think about having a meeting. That day or the next day. In the you can work with us right Mister price the to organize that and you can have staff available for that we're going to meet at ten o'clock on that day maybe later in the day you could have that meeting. In and really get down to the nuts and bolts because you can accomplish a lot more in a small small group I know when I was on state agencies to terms back of election was a big deal we're getting a new election in the machines and we had Sir will subcommittee meetings about elections and they were very productive so I think that can happen here um so I would suggest maybe you do that the other thing were represented Miller requested a hold on that rate study. and getting back with the H. S. well if there's nobody following are championing that. And I'm not saying anything negative towards DHS but they've got a lot on their plate but if we're not pushing that or somebody is not pushing that it may not happen or may not happen the way we would like to see it happen so I would suggest Human Services subcommittee which is chaired by Representative McCollum. And a co chair McGee resented McGee now those are just the state the house tears there's also Senate chairs of that and let me just mention that so you know labor and environment Senator Wallace and looks like Senator Hester I believe. And on health or Human Services is Senator sample and Senator Flippo so I would just suggest that you all think about that and maybe set up subcommittee meetings and consider the details. So see where we go from there well thank you all for staying with this was good meeting was a long meeting we are All right. Yes.