Education Committee Senate & House

All on can you hear us can you hear me. No. They can't hear me. Yeah. This on. Can you hear me. Okay. I just can't hear this one. That must be it Justin can you hear me. Yes we can. Our Gellar room of I guess we're ready to proceed whenever you're ready. Well thank you all of a. Hold on one minute I'm sorry I lied. We have a call the order. And and the remarks by the chair so what were your remarks. And minutes we need a motion to except the minutes last may have a motion second I have a second all in favor say aye. Any opposed no motion carries now we're ready for you thank you. No problem and We're going to start off with the Just we're not sure and miscreants I mean you all see the screen I'm sure right now it's a study update. Yes for. Now the. Stingers. All right I've got just and they asked me to introduce everybody so that everybody that's watching on the video would know exactly who you are and who is going so first also noticed question of adequacy study update we have Mister Justin Silverstein and amend the brown will be our first one up and as we go on down they'll be some others and I'll just let you guys entered too sure self as you change so we'll know. All right. You're recognized. I'm so we're gonna start off with an update like we do each meeting just so you all know where we are and we've got a lot that's happened in the past couple weeks. Man I'm gonna start here. Most of the so when you're quick study update and then Amanda brown is gonna walk throughs and districts survey questions that we're putting together that we hope to get out to districts pretty soon as part of the overall stakeholder engagement and then Amanda is going to make that and the killer talking with us are going to. Wrap up our look at the impact of waivers and specifically the impact on performance I'm for those twelve forty school districts you have waivers I'm in my cell Jennifer biscuits now we are going to talk about the impact about yours. Mark Fuhrman act is going to look at your uniform tax rate and your school finance equity and then John and I will come back and look at the impact of the rule changes so we've got a lot of flights for you our goal is to take questions I'm after each of sly deck except for the uniform tax rate in the school finance equity that really is the longer jackets closer to forty slide so will be a pretty natural transition between the look at uniform tax rate in school when you're ready and that's when we would suggest having questions on each each group. So wanted to visit with you just a little bit about where we are and most specifically on the case studies as you remember the last meeting we laid out the I. fifteen schools we had identified two were doing very well was student growth especially for student populations with that were hyped reduced price lunch into or high English learners in mid may we put out a request to. Record quickly after meeting actually I. For those school leaders to have interviews with all the school leadership team and teachers we gave them a three week with window which would actually wrap up and at the end of this week and I would say schools were excited and and really honored to be selected and within the first about week thank you for seven business days we had most of what we talked to at least the the action jeans four one after we were in the park with you all that we able to get in most of the teacher work done but we're getting a couple of extra this week since teachers and then wrapping up their school year and there were two schools one who declined to participate due to just feeling a little bit overwhelmed one that we've had real trouble I'm coordinating with so we are looking at to alternative sites and we actually are setting up those meetings right. I want to get too today but next month in July it really is what we talked about schools and school size and and buildings and things like that. You'll see most of section three point zero point be of the or if he will be addressed or next meeting and will be bringing in one of our subcontractors who does a lot of work around this around the country will be looking at the current school size policies. Will best practice information in back to school districts and recommendations on an ideal school so as. What kind of public input is currently To account only look at schools I standard with in districts. I'm talking about what type of additional resources might be necessarily necessary for small district size indoor remoteness. Man and what is that make it your to talk about the consolidation earlier or thinking about. Yes inefficiency in either school size our districts. So that's that's the big crux next time I want to remind folks of where we are. So a lot of that stakeholder engagement that we're gonna do in the fall and so even today we have a couple presentations where we're feeling really good about what we're seeing and getting really close to where we think we could make a recommendation around where you are. Still you. It. The survey is an in person as we figure out how to design that so Even in July you know what we'll get to those final recommendations in the fall and so it's it's it's a process and so that we feel really good about a lot of what we're talking about today we we are in a place to make final recommendations that we have a lot of that information. We'll. Three so one of the key pieces of our data collection is doing a survey of distracts with the intent of supplementing the information that is already collected of by the state so we want to make sure we're we're not asking about anything we can already access from a different spot there's number of areas related to the work areas that we wanted to get some more information from the districts not included current school size and staffing policies. capital needs so this is and we're talking required that meets the use of poverty fund how the professional development extra duty time is standard and schools and districts education opportunities and support from education costs. We already have some cities information collected by eighty E. so the areas we want to ask ask additional questions include what's your current district policy related to school signed by school time by that I mean elementary middle intermediate school your different great configurations does your district engage the public when making those decisions and if so how do you have current size guidelines are these determined and how does this differ again I agree enter school configuration. Does your sister have staffing ratios it's that information for particular settled decision such as per your counselors FOR your nurse he's. Next. You already fund. Go back when Justin. In this area we already know that the state collects information about how much revenue is provided to serve the students as well as expenditures for low income students so what we want to ask more is I just districts utilize that funding what they believe the most efficient effective uses those funds are. Development and extra duty time. We want to supplement the existing revenue and expenditure information that we have these areas with more information about how it's delivered including kind of delivery method was providing that professional development number eighty. Under what percentage of professional development time is spent on particular topics are those topics determined by the state or the district by school level stack. If there is any policies around collaboration time for teachers but then the day and how much time that is and then how is extra duty time treated you know there's some specific laws that that that is used in. Want to gather some more missions. Find. In education opportunities Arkansas article it's a wide variety of information about what is going on in each district in the school it's very impressed and including information about course offerings such as T. T. H. E. R. E. electric your science before and after school summer school. And then we also an attorney about how much they're spending for education extracurricular. There's a couple other sources to clearance E. T. E. that you can look at so primarily what we when asked in this area is more information about the extra few curricular is that are offered there is some information collected by the kind of my school in Florida AT data center so really reviewing that information there's something missing what Sir participation rates there might be is every student enrolled in some sort of activity is at fifty percent and. More contextual information are there any changes they would like to make an excuse to programs such as offering more courses in particular areas increasing certification rates dissipation and are there any additional education opportunities that would like to provide to students and why have they not and. Again really trying to in all these areas provided some really request contextual information about the deed and already in a local to do speak a little bit deeper. And FOR educational cooperatives we are you know you know who's being served by what cooperative the number of teachers instance a Sir so really understanding of the Texas supports and services that they're accessing we know what one the clubs are providing really what ones do you find most of. Tax. That was the end. Any questions. Anybody have any questions. Very cool. Okay this move to the next to make an. You can hear me. No questions so let's move on. Just. Okay you all are stuck listening to me talk similar it again amend ran from EPA and I'll be joined by making the talking to look at this as we presented at the last meeting we really focused on looking at the impact of believers in all forty schools so this is our update update every front and the impact or seeing using the approach we describe at the last meeting. I would briefly review that announced this plan to be presented at the last meeting and then we'll share information about it changes in demographics performance and expenditures in those actual forty schools looking between and two thousand fifteen sixteen when he didn't have waivers and two thousand eighteen eighteen when the dad will be comparing and contrasting it against schools that I did not have weaver's. Then we will be looking at the impact of weaver's easier aggression Alice some are the differences that we see between groups statistical significance will be looking at information for first. Instructional waivers is an aggregated groups so any school that had a weaver in an area that we consider to be that could have an instructional impact in resource weaver so again school as a waiver in the near you you think might have a resource of each there's quite a bit of overlap that we'll talk about between the two groups and then individual waivers and what we end up doing this Terry was looking at particular waiver areas that had more than ten percent of schools that had so we can sufficient sample size truly exploring. Thanks fine. So which was again and and this is our our goal through all of our work across the study is to build upon the work of B. OR and not duplicate it in this particular areas that they're already looking at. so in this case our goal to do that was to focus on the impact of believers in these actual schools and these is is a particular password eligibility for waiver that allows any school to get a waiver that charter hat first injured within their district and then later any waiver that any charter in the whole state. By focusing on that were excluding conversion charters and open enrollment charter school talked a little bit. We examine areas that schools received waivers in individual waivers as we talked about last time you need a waiver to have. A noncertified teacher in a particular role. What that might be one waiver area but you might need fifteen different reversed accomplish that objective so looking at the weaver and. We also again examine them aggregated into constructional resource these categories and then looking at a subset of weaver's individually. He excluded waivers for schedule changes so as we talked about at the last meeting I over ninety percent of all out twelve forty schools had a receiver for a flexible schedule so since it was nearly universal it would make sense to travel look at that change over time or a comparison group that would be enough schools that didn't have to wait for. Then we looked at the impact of this week or so for time. We. In my to be focused on the schools it includes the majority of schools so in nineteen twenty the most recent year data that we looked at ninety four percent of all schools in the state had a waiver to the Speaker. Also since this waivers and only been granted since two thousand fifteen allowed us look at the impact of those weavers overtime kind of pre and post having this waivers. and allowing forgetting that comparison between what we would call it like a treatment group first is a control group. And we have the available information on those waivers and cleaning performance expenditures. The reason why the excluded those conversion charters and open enrollment charter schools because it allowed weaver since nineteen ninety five and we don't have information going back to your when they have those papers even enough detail about the weavers they had. So we would be able to tease out the impact of the leaders in the school settings with that done. So again we we looked at the available information if you're able to collect over that time period and looked at it using a linear regression model. I understand. What did the change in outcomes expenditures look like from beginning to end including looking at schools within without waivers so that we could control for available characteristics such as student school science grade level and performance expenditure label prior to receiving a waiver so we're these already high performing schools with these already low performing schools how did their performance and expenditures really change over time versus how much is attributable to just work to start with. Next. Just very quickly we build state dataset using multiple data sources we clean the data and unlimited any schools of missing data we conducted some descriptive analysis that all share momentarily acted out the model and will be providing that and now stands at the end of this constitution one. The difference is we looked at was waiver data that we were received from BLR disinformation originally came from AT but we want to make sure we're using the same data sat for consistency expenditure data from the Arkansas statistical reports and school performance characteristics and demographics from the my school and over the AT T. S. Yeah excluded those open enrollment conversion charter schools the reasons we talked about and schools of missing data we didn't disaggregated the school's out by school time and by that I mean elementary middle high school intermediate. And we are so that you aggregate groups and individually person areas. Says refresher the waivers that we thought might have an instructional or student come impact included licensure attendance requirements library media criticized class that is. Salaries Happy is planning hearing aids duty free lunch and staffing categories and Advanced Placement. You go to the next. These are the waivers that we thought might have a resource use four impact on their expenditures see there's quite a bit of overlap between two groups so waiver we thought could build that tension impact on instruction in resource you so for example teacher licensure it may impact the performance of your students and because you're not using a certified position it may be cheaper to staff position and with you before so it could have both instructional and resource implications. Next fine. So this is just in here in our sample to the state to make sure that the schools that we were looking at were consistent with the state as a whole so this is not when I see sample this is all the schools that were in the set of data that we looked at both schools that did not have waivers. It is not the substance will that waivers. So all is trying to show here is that that the sample is very consistent with the state or some minor variation but overall this school that we're looking at a reflective of the state as a whole. Meeks. First we want to do is just look at the descriptive and compare what the demographics look like in schools with waivers and schools without waivers in two thousand fifteen compared to two thousand eighteen nineteen. So the the bars that you'll see on the left our school leavers the bar set on the right our schools without later. And when you can see is that there is a very minor variation in the demographics of both groups over that period of time and you see actually. Consistent changes between groups whether what state are both groups there free reduced lunch percentage went down slightly on their special education percentage went over that created. Next. Looking at achievement this is looking at ACT aspire for all grades for all students so this is not a subject this is everyone. And you can see again looking at waivers on the last schools with waivers and schools without waivers. Their performance was relatively consistent mac. And of a meaningful about a five percent decline in around literacy what's interesting here is to point out that the schools with waivers the schools without waivers all the experiences similar decline in those two years. A good reason why he didn't just look at the changing performance for waiver schools in that period that we wanted to contrast against. Share it against the control groups to the schools without papers to make sure there was nothing happening during that particular period of time as I see here see. Next came. Expenditures in in both groups total expenditures in instructional increase slightly over this time. Really important point here is schools with waivers tended to be spending at a higher level and total expenditures for people just start looking at at two thousand fifteen sixteen they were spending about eighty two hundred for students in fifteen sixteen compared does seventy six hundred four schools without papers so this group was already higher spending set of schools. I will be turning it over makayla democracy their aggression in house thank you. Question now and we're really looking at is the out different for school with and without leave very you think make the great aunt after controlling black getting character and after the brawl Mant percent unity I find by such and grade level metal had locate intermediate on entry and then also holding a commanding mentioned earlier the and twenty fifteen sixteen okay for both performance by law and expenditure. And. If you can't determination when if you die you a point of pride for a lack. And when you are dealing multiple the past week ACT one out of twenty recalled to generate a all of that. and we'll talk about that and you look at chart and then in emerge currently labelled and not significant and ask which means there was no physical lead difference between from the apple we also did create a positive or minus indicated their queue to send a different that probably higher than the out or like that so we can look more when we get the check and then an important thing to note in even with the clean significant difference that doesn't tell us whether the lever caught the change in out that correlation for the actual costs. We looked at the aggregated waiver area and individually as I'm cool considered have a way that it held a leader at least one year and only looked at the anchor gated instructional or repairs we we examined multiple outcomes and so the exam will examine performance on ACT aspire achievement and growth for all grant on the look at napa literacy and we look at all did and and FOR after it and as well as the the first one to be looked at expenditure per pupil bill total and action on that and we went back and looked at individually and the individual impaired where cool five or ten percent of people had a waiver in that include three weaver areas we look at where library media teacher licensure and it and then. And without one we look at ECTS prior achievement and growth for all grant we looked at math and literacy and then we look at all and but we did not take and to be ready what. Not. Turn we looked at what it would be like if there is achievement I'll I'll come with the regression we look at both the instructional waiver and FOR restart the act as you can see there's no clear of all so we've heard might be associated with I believe that are out. So all those instructional leaders were not significant and mainly attending in the positive direction and with regard and they were mainly not and and all that we're sending in a positive direction except for change would rate the rate about that as is in school how to restart later it was associated with a one point two percentage point change in later years you that right as we mentioned earlier that could also be due to the fact that when you run one in twenty past one of them will have the full confidence in that I could be part of that and again it's a very small changes that occurred. Next. She expenditure reduction announced that in the chair what we found is within instructional we event there was now change and or nothing significant in terms of change and FOR people or total expenditures for people with the restart you thought that resource papers are it is the increased about six hundred thirteen dollars in total expenditures for people again we don't think that having a resource waiver cog this change but there's other factors that might have been thank you for that for example geographical area local contribution inability or a local dollars also the manager had mentioned earlier if you look on from her levers will are we ever group will already had hired an insurance and non member so there's more that we can get into ACT to what is causing that we don't believe. And I mean tractor. Next one. Should we look at each of the individual we add in that you've been engrossed and. You can be at hunter green red the added with but we better outcome the for example if there's attendance waiver and FOR fifty eight and what and that you percentage point increase an act that you that earn and only look at licensure and library media at least five that and these labor might get that it is lower shipment again they had many more if they're at all to be I'm not. I can't and also make sense that you with you and I'm going into that or having a slightly B. create for being lower it you've met hi with the licensure we have or library media leave. Act saying that you no longer have that late staff if not condition and I could be a way. It might be great. Right now we're open for any questions yeah. We have some questions here read Representative della Rosa. A thank you madam chair Ford okay you're so there aren't I had a question going back to the pages of the charge that we're dealing with the changes in ACT aspire performance I think the first year listed was the twenty fifteen to sixteen year versus the twenty eighteen and nineteen year and I was curious about that because I th in maybe my time line is is wrong but I thought that we still had the park test. In twenty fifteen I don't think we had the ACT aspire at that point in time could you guys cover with the changes were and are standardized testing in that period of time because I'm a little confused. Amend ram for the record according to that the data that's available we did have ACT aspire information for fifteen sixteen. And I would love to eighty to know more about that teaching in testing over that period of time but that that was the earliest year that the numbers available FOR ECTS fire on the my school though. Hey. Now I think the commissioner said that correct I coulda swore that we voted in because I came in a twenty fifteen and I remember specifically voting to eliminate the parks test so that couldn't have been prior. Okay. Thank you senator Sturch for explaining that to me thank you he's a smart. Senator Chesterfield. Thank you madam chair. Did I hear you correctly when you said you didn't take into account free and reduced lunch. In dealing with this issue. For the record we did take into account in the regression analysis we're looking at controlling for reduced price lunch what we can was referring to when she said we didn't look at that is that we did not look on this chart you can see we first looked at performance for all students and then we look specifically at the the subpopulation component for after I'll for these papers we just did not do that when we did the individual weavers if the accident to the group that is something you could run. Or for an apartment so let me see if I'm understanding what we're saying that there is no statistical difference. In achievement when you have a certified teacher in a classroom in a noncertified teacher am I correct is that what you're saying. Seven the data line now what you're saying that the data showing that there's no statistical difference between a highly qualified teacher any. Yeah the data right now is not showing up for the schools that have waivers in those areas it is not. Using a larger study isolating all the performance of schools that in classrooms that have all certified staff for all. Certified so it's just looking at those schools that had readers in that area and we are seeing as McGill pointed out the trends towards lower performance in those two areas when you're having on certified staff but it's not statistically significant if except in a couple areas that we're seeing. You're saying looking. Years but the current data is not indicating there's any statistical difference between having a certified person and noncertified person in the classroom. That's what you're in in night changing match we are staying at statistically significant decline of about two percentage points to not a large difference but some different for the was the head weavers It is so all these high standards we have for instruction we can just wave all of those because it doesn't make any difference is over sign. Well I should clarify that this is not particularly a licensure for a waiver for a teacher in math achievement so again this is a waiver to have a noncertified position and in any role it could be in many of the schools having an answer five percent is in a different subject on a variety of subjects or in a particular single classroom or great. I don't think you go so far to say it does not matter. This is just for the record. This analysis is at the school level and you individual waivers have an impact I think just to really follow up on a man this point you could have one person in the whole school who that the schools receiving this waiver for on waste. This is not as a discipline houses that gets down to the classroom level thank you control for licensure non licensure at the classroom level so I think you'd be. Far too broad a statement to say we know or don't know if licensure from this data at the individual teacher level is impactful performance what we are saying is that. We're schools you have to get a waiver apps somebody in their school wait out of a specific licensure requirement there's a general negative relationship to performance but it's not a skill in most of the areas that is that this is. Mystically significant. All pool of schools that have that waiver some might have a higher concentration you don't have licensure somebody get only have one teacher that's not something we could control for with the data and the data set what we're looking at is the general impact of weavers and if there is a market Now the difference between having and not having waivers in these areas as you can see some of the attendance looks like we have more impact licensure though again with the negative relationship generally is not coming up with that this is a significant across the. Are you finished. Yeah. By senator Elliott. Thank you madam chair our first just kind of When it comes to the flexible schedule I really don't remember the just the first part of the second part of this presentation but when it came to the flexible scheduling out why does not done to you know with are we. A without working with the staff. Jesus. Whoever gave that part of it. Run for the record and. Re enter your question and he's not quite understanding it you're asking how we were looking at the impact of flexible schedule waivers yeah that's right and I and I'm just curious I don't know what you I know what you were the part she word exploring but do you know if that was done that as a as a collective decision or if it was done by administration what. I just I'm trying to figure out whether or not that plays any part in and well not something might be approach might be successful or not. Sure I'm invented record. That is a great question again we did not consider flexible rules to be one of the waitress that we lucked out so they were not included in that action on the source you script because it was our universal by the end as we mentioned well over ninety percent of school and get my to determine ninety nine point had a waiver for flexible schedule large all right it was in that big bunch that you did that yeah I had it and okay my understanding is that was primarily written needs you're trying to align the start date to allow that sold fall semester to occur. The holidays so that to me was just you know is it just why policy in your but that's fine if this is the I I didn't realize that the it was in part the big bunch thank you for your response and. So. Senator Sturch. We'll call you back. Which in the queue. Senate bill Senator Sturch. You're on. Thank you ma'am chair this James Sturch I just had a quick question about your now ISIS on the expenditures. I'm on page thirteen of your power point the bar graph that show the total expenditures per pupil. Between the waiver in the non waiver I just wanna make sure just ask are we keeping then constant the annual increases we give to schools over that time frame. Amend brand for the record and mechanically stump and if I'm not speculating this correctly by eight thank you for where they started with and in doing that absent against waiver schools that might be experiencing exact between weaver and non member schools which both would be experiencing the stains that I've changes in funding from the state of those increases that you're talking about you're saying. Kind of control for the change their both seen you're still seeing intentional dollar crease of what you were you were saying in all schools. So the commander. So then the only one that you found statistically significant was six hundred thirteen dollar overall total increase for resource waivers. For the resource favorite that's correct in thinking of this thing that's an area that you know we would want to do again two more before really being in the state of the first class that there's some underlying questions about the the waiver group being higher centers to start with did they have more local capacity are they. Is there something about going for a waiver that makes them more likely to also gone out for extra grant funding where are they in a higher cost community that might see changing sure so I think there's some underlying factors that are likely contributing to this as well sure so that that's why the cabbie out make it was saying we're seeing this but you really need to know more before you could fully attribute it to you to the thank you madam chair. Thank you okay of representatives Springer. You on. Hello okay thank you okay thank you madam chair I'm new to this so I'm trying to learn how to use this Mike Foale I my question is do these data represent all that I think I missed the may by mistake when you were first started to presentation to these data represent all the schools in Arkansas or is this just a sampling because before I kind of one off track before when there was a presentation such as this so are these all the schools or just a sampling. Question the record this would be what will our sample it nine hundred and six rules of the I was in fifty did exist in this state the ones that we excluded where the open enrollment and conversion charters which is bringing that number down there were some that had some missing data G. you well we're doing within that time period consolidating you have some lost their and then I believe we excluded it you know like the state school for the deaf and blind your your correctional facilities that we took out some of those schools but it largely represents the vast majority of schools in the state you said nine twenty six of how many. I believe about it the writer So so most of. What did they look like before we persons they have a long period of time or the ability to let Pat over here it's time. All right thank you. They of senator Elliott. I thank you madam chair are on the very last page of the thus the presentation we just finished the two sentences at the bottom I just want to get a clarification where it says Attendance waivers or associated with slightly better outcomes and then the second one library and license or waiters might be associated with lower achievement Could you distinguish from a. What you mean by. are associated and might be associated and how you know what that differences so so I understand better. Parking for the record we and our affiliated with because if you look under the attendant most of our adult where the clean I can't wear when licensure and library media most of them were not significant and we can just be a slight downward trend and with only one in each category being. I can't so the might is attracting a lack of this will be taken. And then how just give me a little schooling on questions state the first one when you say the a to since attendance waivers are associated with slightly better outcomes. If you can give me a quickie on how you know it's so stated with a attendance waiver outcomes instead of something else different that might have happened during that time period how do we determine the. I think what we're saying the accounting and the actor and and they are that if you have the tendency of where you will you are fifty eight all teams in the the treatment level not necessarily that having attendance labor is caught by the or having a tentative a copy that. The weirdest thing that there's a correlation between having the the waiver and getting it out. I make you stand there is a correlation instead of an association. Are those the same things. For the record you corrected in correlation would have been the the more accurate terminology to be. And translated into just a little simpler language. Mentors and go get one more clarification because I I'm this is I'm I'm I'm not trying to get a doctor thing I want to be sure you understand that if this is me trying to understand because if we are going to have dependable data regarding this I want to be sure that we don't end up correlating some help calm. With something that. Might or might not be the reason we got that out com so that's why the wording is someone board to me right here so is correlation the right word with the recognition that it might be some other factor that is playing a part in what's going on. That's correct and. We you know build model to you all for other people's might be having an impact as we could you know including demographic you stand where it. Or S.. I know that there is always other factors that could be in separate from the data that we just look at that that are in play so that's why we chose stress that there's a correlation here it does not necessarily mean that the waiver is causing it but that to places with levers are once you control for all the other things that we do have data on are correlated with having better it she okay thank you thanks manager. Springer. You should be on. Okay. I'm gonna take you off to try again amendment. Okay pressure but again. With. Your request button yellow button. Zero. Okay okay thank you. I guess maybe you've. Maybe follow up a little bit about it I'm not a statistician but I do know some things about running statistical analysis and so I guess I would senator Elliott was asking you about all the variables and I didn't quite understand what you said about this so what with the variables that we use with respect to what she was asking you once again act I did not hear so can you kind of go over that again for me. Beginning did you wanna answer them. I'm so if you're bored one more than I think you can offer up right yes. And that what you're looking at the very able the user outcome variable the reason for outcome let APPF air using all grade and we ought to look at math and there's the frosted and and in math and what I eat our communities and clients that we control all right hi. English language learner being reduced price lines we are control for total enrollment. And and then we can pull four before later as well so your outcome variable before the weight. The other control. That's okay of that the senator Chesterfield is. Yes would you repeat that for her thank you. She repeat. Thank you right I can hear what was that. Yet senator Chesterfield would like for you to repeat what you just said about the variables in the. Thank you thank you lord one works fine it was yeah so we can call for the multiple after by our outcome where ACT aspire achievement and growth for all green I'm looking at napa literacy and we look at all the land and FOR unity I thank and and we also look at expenditures for people either outcome total for people instructional for people and then we controlled for a bunch of different act we controlled spare percent unity thank lines present by such a caring percent English language learner well hi meaning mental high school elementary intermediate Hey and then we also controlled or total in a lot the back. And then we will try for before the. On our out as well. That it. Thank you. Okay looks like we have no more questions you committee. They can move forward. All right looks like ready for the next part so you're up again. We your words. truce that is going to be off by a Jennifer biscuits in. In your. Afternoon I'm Jan the telly with eighty eight Justin I will be sharing with you the research that we did in that voters and tax credit authorship as the next line. What we were looking for in this set of research was understanding how prevalent are by Jaron tax credit scholarship programs nationally we do understand there are other types of tax credits that states offer but the tax credit scholarship to the programs that operate most similarly to enter program so that's what we look at. we were interested in seeing what does the body of research say on the impact of of voters in tax credit scholarship programs on funding. What types of sure and tax credit programs exist in the comparison state and again for this study those are the as I read the state and Massachusetts. The key difference between vouchers and tax credit scholarships or that voters utilized tech state funds to provide funding for students to attend non public schools and in some limited cases I would have district public schools I'm there generally targeted to specific groups of students. And if there is a difference between the the vote for amount and the tuition at the private school then the families are responsible for paying that difference. tax credit hours Miller and then again if there is a difference in the amount of the scholarship amount and the. Responsible for paying. The difference is that tax credit scholarships utilized privately donated funds for which the donor's estate tax credit Donated funds are then distributed distributed as scholarships to eligible students. these are up most of these programs are a bit newer than voter programs many that we look that particularly in the comparison states have been enacted within the past ten years. in most states to put an annual cap on the amount of Tax credit they will provide in any given year and there's a pretty wide range there among the comparison state between five million and about eight hundred and seventy four million which we'll talk about a little bit more. Later. No. all of the state's nationally sixteen states and Washington DC have voucher programs and they mentioned many are designed for particular student groups most commonly we see that the students eligible for federal programs are students with disabilities it is from low income families or students that we're going to attend schools that were determined by the state to be under performing or failing whatever the terminology is. That given eight three of these programs are from New England states that our town tuition programs and really quite different from what we think of as the traditional about your program. Yes Sir for Any state towns are responsible for providing education and these are for house that do not operate public schools or don't operate public schools in every grade span so that they're able to use your tuition agreements and to the children in their town most most typically to school districts and neighboring town or school so they're still technically better programs but they're a little bit different them with the tax dollars at programs. There are nineteen states that have tax fellowship program again they're typically targeted to the same student groups that we see rector programs. as you likely know Arkansas has about your program the succeed scholarship program this is a program for students with disabilities attended a public school for at least one full academic year there is the military exemption there's also the opportunity for a local I. superintendent to waive that attendance requirement. On the program is also eligible is available to students in foster care living in group homes or other facilities that meet the eligibility requirements the nature amount is the lesser of the state's purple funding amount or the cost of the private school tuition funding for this program does not come from the public schools funds but rather from a separate appropriation. the are. Provides a report and does a study analyzing and the Scholarship program by analyst by any only on them just completed this study in March twenty twenty and that has League data on the number of students utilizing that program of where they come from across the state the number of schools that participate AS amended mentioned in the previous presentation we don't want to duplicate any of the ours great work just know there is that recent report available that has all details on the Arkansas program X.. Next we looked at the voucher programs that exist and are comparison states for this study It isn't Arkansas eight of the comparison states how about your programs on half of those operate two distinct better programs on the other house operate a single budget program on each state has its own eligibility criteria and its own funding level. six of the comparisons states have better programs for students with disabilities compass in seven programs Mississippi is any it in the nation that has about your program specific to you students as lex yeah ten schools focusing on dyslexia therapy in addition to their broader better program for students with disabilities than five of the comparison states about your program low income students and or students going to attend underperforming schools Tennessee is included in that I don't as the recently enacted a voucher program that was slated to begin with this upcoming school year there was a legal challenge to that for the implementation is currently the late but that is included in our count eight. This chart shows for those comparisons gates which states have venture programs in which states have tax credit program five of the state had neither. and FOR states have both types of programs. Thanks. What that each of these larger programs to look at how are they funded of most states make a separate appropriation from their regular K. twelve on a program to fund about your programs. for example Maryland for this current school year it's clear that just ended suppose rated I'm little over six and a half million dollars from the general fund to operate their voucher program which is in that low income students. there are examples of other states who are who fund their budget programs out of their general state aid for example in Oklahoma structure program is for students with disabilities this state calculate the total cost of the scholarships for all of those students and then that is the dog did from the total amount appropriated from the eighty purposes. As I mentioned before the venture amounts vary among the states we pull just a few examples here to highlight this point Florida's better program for low income families provides a voucher that's weird ninety five percent of the waited student are based eight well they're scholarship program their budget program for students with disabilities Is based on one. How much they would have spent on that child and that child's I EP. On the Louisiana scholarship program is some more similar to Arkansas's where they get what they're of and FOR we've got it ninety percent of the people amount the difference being in Louisiana is ninety percent of the amount from both state and local sources I'm not to exceed the cost of school tuition and fees. the north Carolina's opportunity scholarship program provides a maximum of forty two hundred dollars per year again families with that I any additional on. Where do you above and beyond the amount. Thanks. All of that the research is available and as I'm sure you're aware university of Arkansas is one of the nation's leading sources of research on Bedford programs wide so you have a wealth of expertise and knowledge within the state. research on vendors is somewhat limited as again they are relatively newer programs Most of the research intends to measure the pages impact on student achievement and over the years of various our valuations berries program have shown mixed results Of a very well known study that the university of Arkansas that which was a longitudinal multi year study if there were thirty one individual. Thank you reports within that larger study so that students in lower grades generally performs similar or worse in reading and science than their peers and the Milwaukee public schools but then students in higher grades generally showed somewhat better performance and students and what schools study of the use of the Louisiana scholarship program which was also conducted by the university of Arkansas. so that students participating in the program had as I suggested that we significant negative impact on English language arts and math scores most years of the evaluation. and it shows that impact on college going rate was all there was virtually no difference between those and then recent evaluation of Washington DC. program so that. A student performance was worse than our. Math in the first two years but then between yours five two and three students who had scholarships have faster growth then in the math test scores than those who did not use the back room is actually under three years the student achievement outcomes are leveled out. All. Next we look at what research is that there that talks about the impact of the actors on on the net and this is where the very specific nature of each voter program Really impacts intense old funding impacts. there was a recent of relatively recent study of Indiana scholarship program and that so the distinct districts felt on the impact of the lost for people revenue for students leaving the public schools for private schools. Yeah this program also one that Where students who were not previously in public schools could take part in the program and so for the two years of the study twenty eleven twelve and twenty twelve thirteen percent and twenty three percent respectively of project manager program had not previously been in the public schools funding for those students represented newly allocate at public funds. one of the longest in the bridge's programs in the country the Milwaukee. Graham this is that longitudinal study that the university of Arkansas conducted. It did find a likely not pop act the means merrily due to the fact that the veteran mounts was smaller than there per pupil expenditures I'm so they found two thousand nine the the state overall save thirty two point seven million dollars and twenty ten state saves forty six point seven million dollars and in twenty eleven the AHCF fifty one point nine million dollars the study did note however that property taxpayers in Milwaukee ended up and an estimated forty four point seven million dollars more on that was in two thousand nine as a result of the way and the particular way that their voucher program and I'm funding for public schools works and some other state overall had a seating impact was felt hire locally. Or Or does for the other impact on potential impact on funding is for the voucher programs for students with disabilities for those states that allocate there per pupil amount. it is possible that if the students stayed in the public schools at the cost of implementing their I EP might have been more then in the cost of the voucher some of the state base the voucher amount based upon the cost of providing services under the I EP so there would be no benefit there however there are very few studies looking at the impact of federal programs on or is designated for special education students on state funding. Bring us to the tax credit hours steps which Justin well. Johnson was in I'm gonna be talking about the tax credits and as. FOR no the the these are not around quite as long as it's their round a decade that we were able to find seven the comparison states have enacted tax credit scholarship programs and the majority of these programs of five of the seven states forget this for one low income students or students or zones to attend the underperforming schools about on. You need to the programs are looking for special education students students with a piece and in Florida actually has to program so they both target of those units from the low income families and or but they also look at student a victim of bullying or who had. Some sort of experience of violence in schools. From what we found in Georgia is more unique in that they basically make those eligible for any student who was attended a public school or at least six weeks and then if you are a kindergarten or first grader or second grader I you don't even have to have the six week requirements so effectively as a tax credit scholarship program just about any students from your role in public schools. Wanted to put the bill back up just as a reminder of for that tax credit site so you've seen this table little little earlier in this presentation but again these are the states on the right to have the. Thanks for the programs that are part of our computers and state you'll see at west you're. So the funding for these really what you need because I have individuals or sometimes corporations are allowed to also participate who are making a choice to provide funds into that specific program again the program generally as a stronger related to student me. I'm the donations are made of the program hi this is not something where grandpa and grandma can decide to put some money into a system and they can get junior yeah thanks credit scholarship that they can go to a private school it's really about finding that that need in that public that's been signed by the state and so initially the public funds are not tax it's not a direct tap of public funds but they're basically is a you know act bill program through the credit that the state is providing. Was let go your most frequently comes from state income tax credits what a has a number of other areas where you can also do tax credits but the majority of the programs we found I'm in the states it's really an income tax credit and so you are as an individual you needing an amount of money you will then later gets based on the taxes you owe a credit to offset that what is true and some of the states if you were to provide money into that charge a program that is greater than when your actual tax who is in the future you can get a refund in some of the states you don't in that case you really have to carry that over to your I'm taxes in in in the prior in a in years to come. And so what we also found in in Jensen on this a little bit is that the amount of tax credit available nearly berries by state and that's what caps the amount of service that can be provided in these tax credit scholarship programs. If you look here by far the highest as Florida with you know approaching a billion dollars I can go through the system they have that additional program which is actually based again on that vehicle east low is home at five million. That in Alabama they've seen a decrease in the amount of money coming into the scholarship program and so with the twenty twenty one school year they are not allowing any new just so students who are already in the program will receive scholarships but they will not be any new students in the program. Again there's not a lot of information on the success at the student's level I but we did find some information on this back a little ways on a return on investment to the state and so Florida's. Program was evaluated and it's found that for every dollar in tax credit issue the state was actually stating a dollar and a dollar forty four cents so the total net savings in the so the budget was thirty six point two million. I'm. We your questions on that the doctors in the country okay let's see Representative makes. Thank you manager of the the question that I had is on the bouncers one of presenters John mentioned that there was a decline in some of the test scores and I'm wondering the decline you saw was that declining the student's verses their peers or was that the student verses. What they're chi meant was prior to going on to the program is that makes sense and then my father then I'll have a follow up if that's okay. The studies that we saw we're comparing students who were in that doctor program you similar students who were not in the matter. Okay I'll be comparing them all in Milwaukee students to talk about her to a private school purposes are similar students who stayed in the Milwaukee public. Okay that leads me to my follow up so typically you know a lot when. Pull our participating in these voucher programs there's usually some mitigating circumstances that you know the parents are getting involved and so forth Is that you know there's bullying at school older by relation with the teachers or something like that going on typically that makes the parent want to was that considered in the studies as well all the where do we know why that the first year two was negative could be just be. They are going to a new school on familiarity I'm just curious to see if we know why that negative affect the same. I would need to go back to look into the specifics of those programs the research that we tried to highlight words those that We're at a high enough level that They were controlling much like we try to control for various factors in our analysis of waivers they were so I can go back and check to to see those factors that they were control and FOR okay now I just be curious to see if there were circumstances that were causing those negative outcomes of those first few years and if self that something that you know as we look at policy that we can try to account for and in these programs going forward thank you thank manager. Thank you. Senator Elliott. Thank you madam chair a couple things I just want to get clarify to be sure I heard correctly I think I heard you say the that. implementing the I. E. T. at the schools with vouchers. Select we're talk about funding less Expensive then implementing it and public schools is that correct or did you correct me on what I think I heard. I believe in doing just current this is Justin sourcing for the record okay. I'm Jennifer mention is that in many programs the the maximum amount of dollars I can go in about your program is basically foundation level fund. I'm in so and a special education student generally cost more than that foundation level. So some read there is some information that we saw our first talked about you know let's talk in round terms if the foundation amount is seven thousand dollars in the I EP cost thirteen thousand dollars if the voucher program is only providing the seven thousand because that's the cap house in the school being sent to you with actually picking up that will not less complete apples apples programs would to be assigning too soon That is just just act a cabbie ought that we found in some of the information we saw on on other programs that have that the ITS okay inset the following up on that then so if we aren't say and the the public school where you've got the foundation funding and the whole thirteen thousand dollar bit and this is seven thousand dollars and goes to the the private school how and that's all that goes. Do we know before we can compare anything other than cost Do we know for there are not. That students Full measure of what is needed for them we have any way of knowing what that would have cost or that indeed the school did pick up that cost and deliver that service so we could actually compare those numbers. Do we know how to do that or if it happened. Janitor and you on that one if we found that I I think it is Hey unlikely in what we were looking through if we have a comparison of AT verses eight P. it was it is. Yes I sent you a little bit higher level okay so so in essence the the information we would have is that we know it cost the St Louis that that's what we are knowing the cost of state less but we don't know anything about the advocacy with which that child was educated and and and this is kind of a point of concern in terms of our. Requiring parents to waive that right when they to leave the public school and so I I just want people to be thoughtful about waiting of rights and making sure students are totally educated that's not for you guys but I think that's something we need to put in our thinking because what happens is not and my. Second and last question I was. Looking at. The. Five twenty seven is that we have in Arkansas. And. Was there a direct discussion of that at that I somehow I did go ahead and answer phone call but is there a direct discussion of the five twenty sevens in the way we do this in Arkansas as opposed to just straight ahead Belcher's. look at this we only look that venture programs and that tax credit scholarship programs. In the state. Was that what we had requested in the. A I I is that would be requested or do or do we just missed something here because I was under the impression we would be looking at all the different ways of finding. is that a matter of wording that that was not included on our part. And the. And the contract itself. We believe what what we look at here was in the wording I we're happy to work with the co chairs okay all right not to that's fine because it could be the wording I just but that's something I just think we ought to think about and and on top of the cochairs as well thank you. Thank you madam chairman in the in looking at the succeed scholarship which is our is the only voucher program that we have in Arkansas and you were referencing The dollar figures of what the foundation AT is and then you mention a thirteen thousand dollar figure were you just throwing that number out or is that the average amount that is spent on special education student. Just I was just does work numbers that I was making up to make an exit so I apologize I probably should have made them not quite as close to the actual foundation numbers which would have been okay so we don't have any it did do you know if there's any data president of want the average amount is that we spend on say the students that it whose families have chosen to to take the succeed scholarship. Do not have that information here A looking to kill a talking with our group is it is deep into all the expenditure information so we can okay I'm working. And and at the at the point that the succeed scholarship currently any reference it is not funded by foundation date but that it's actually funded by the governor's emergency fund what what ever you're spending your toes if even if you just look at the seven thousand dollar. figure of the foundation aid you're saving that school district that money. Plus whatever they were already spending over above correct. Yes it is not coming out of the that it's not coming out right okay It in the chairman chairman Cozart may be able to answer this question I know that he introduced legislation that does an annual review of the succeed scholarship. Have we had several versions of that study yet Mister chairman. Or is it been implemented yet. I believe that studies been sent out already okay you should have it that was all just one version of okay well my my understanding is that there there's an extremely high I don't know if it's that researcher of its other research but there's an extremely high satisfaction rate see something like in the ninety percentile and above Satisfaction rate by parents who have taken the succeed scholarship it is so I would just say that John might wanna look at that in terms of your analysis of the effectiveness of that program. Yes that that report was released in March of this year and it does have a a wealth of information on it I I do not recall off the top of my head if it had an average expenditure of but I do know that for the twenty nineteen twenty school year it reported four hundred twenty six students were participating statewide. Four hundred twenty six students. So even if you just look at the minimum foundation eight figure you could multiply that by four hundred twenty six students and that's how much school districts have been saved in foundation aid. Plus you can assume over and over and above that special other special ed cost maybe even catastrophic special it costs okay well thank you very much thank you Mr chair madam chairman. Thank you I think that all the questions. I will tell the question one for the next. Haitian which is gonna be mark Fuhrman acted again this is one where we will be. Stopping the points And. Start another. All right. Bills to start with the uniform tax rate and then go into equity and so we'll take questions after that uniform rate of taxation. It is all yours. Work we have no sense. We still meet at their. Still no sound you're using your phone it is on use you have it and get it right now so you still need to. We have one minute just to get sound we're working before we started the scene of last month's. Now. Okay so I've tried switching over to my computer sounds that work. Phone numbers were not working. Alright thank you everyone my name is mark Fuhrman neck I'm with APA as well all of Justin next slide. Presentation we're looking at two things the I. now says uniform straight and then also would be for the examination of the universe. Your farm. Read it we're looking primarily at sort of how it looks what what's the sort of the variation particularly with those districts that have voted yes No bills are a kind of a deeper dive into that and we also look at what it thanks to increase the uniform rated taxation and then for house this sense again on the the my pledge the the department or bureau of let's legislative research looks act is a regular equity analysis on it of a traditional view what we've decided to do is take a little bit different tact and look more at watch how equitably specific resources such as a teacher qualifications or additional programming like before and after school programs or summer school programs equitably distributed those are so take a close look at how all of these various resources are distributed crossed wealth Quincy mass and what we in by wealth when Giles is basically we divide all the districts inch I equal groups in terms of number but I'm organize by how much local wealth they have it is measured by yes wage ATM so basically when tile are those groups and just rex with the greatest local well and then when title it is the group of districts with the lowest amount of wealth with the lowest amount of sets. ATM. Next I just. Okay. So the uniformity taxation is basically the the uniform bill rate state wide no rate that's used to to determine what local share of the foundation funding amounts going to be and that. Thirty five bills Work in the state so if you're district in you have a lot of property well twenty five mills and raises the entire amount of the foundation allow then you don't receive any state eight if you're or wealth district and in raises only half of that foundation amount then the remaining half is paid to the district and state a sub. You on chief some level of equity this list of how much on local wealth you have you're going to read is that phone. Matter what. local voters chan but with additional maintenance and operation mills above that twenty five mil together of a district Isshin on just funding support programs and then also the program of dedicated I am no funding that's also voted to borders can approve up to three additional mills for CPAS. Maintenance and operation purposes. So in twenty eighteen and fifteen the twenty five mills at ninety eight percent because the the state generally looks at nine cent originally to account for any unpaid taxes Districts with I'm very levels of act is the arrears aren't penalized but to this the the U. R. T. raised about one point two billion dollars in turn how much was raised per student or ATM average daily membership that from five seventy two dollars for a very low wealth district to. Several districts that can raise the entire I'm at that time six thousand seven hundred eighty one dollars funded. in terms of the full of maintenance and operation rates of this is the twenty five mills for the you are cheap plus any board approved additional mills a range from twenty five so those districts that don't raise your bills to a high of thirty four point nine males so there's also the hot district with the post access mills you had an animal no roughly nine point mills two hours what. The average across all districts was just over the twenty five mills and my point six nine. Next slide. So this is looking at what would happen if the U. R. T. was increased and since we. A proposal to adults I is one I thought might be most useful is to look at what the impact of raising the U. R. T. by one bill would be in pretty assume that if you're going to raise that by three or five meals in that impact is roughly three or five times greater than one bill I just. I in twenty eighteen nineteen On the Asian amount at the curb five milieu Archie you know roughly just under forty percent thirty nine point five percent of the amount state wide was raised by the U. R. T. or local taxes in over sixty percent sixty one five percent was raised from on state revenue so of roughly a forty sixty beats local state sheer. You increase the local share on and also the local share interest from a low of eight point four percent in the lowest wealth district you know two hundred and districts for the U. R. T. is us to raise the entire foundation amount of the apps that would be the state share range from ninety one point six percent in that Lowell well district two zero percent in those in those higher wealth districts. Terms of the additional levy revenue from from a one will increase. It ranges from the lowest wealth district would only raise about an additional fourteen thousand dollars mail. Three point eight million criminal for the highest wealth districts so what range of what can be by one rage changed across the districts. Next slide. in looking at what the though the one no rate change. With the one no rate increase would change things it would rate state what roughly a little over forty nine million dollars local foundation records and could support late and you also increase the Your overall foundation amount it would reduce the state share portion of it would increase the change though the state local or local state share from thirty percent or forty percent local sixty percent state to just forty one percent local in just under fifty not status which changes things by Cup points in just under a couple of percentage points either way and then the tape which shows basically I'm how that it stopped by a these well wealth quintiles they mentioned so a queen type one which are the wealthiest districts of their pain what the most of their foundation through their own local resources chair would go up from sixty three point eight percent two sixty sixty five point nine percent the amount of money get from state share would get RES from just over thirty six percent to just over thirty four percent and that attitude. Your funds runs through the the queen tirelessly the fifth quintiles thank you for. Rich or on the table your shows that local share for the the least wealthy districts would increase from about twenty percent did just a one percent state sure would decline from eighty percent to over seventy nine. In these two charts show basically the same thing just to give you an idea so it's not if you look at the usage change in the state local share or S. eat given descriptor Quinn tile you to think about you know there are some research out there that should pose that not surprisingly that local region residential property values home values are being well court waited with that calm and so no obvious be. Those folks and say quintiles four five me have a little bit less income two. Local share than than the the people living in the more wealthy districts and green tiles ones use there is a attempt at spear but when you look at the overall funding system it's not a huge impact to make a one inch one another next slide. So in looking at the revenue impact for one bill increase up which the per ATM change would be about a hundred seven dollars so the local share would go up about a hundred and seven dollars for students in state or go down a hundred and seven dollars for students of a particular mill in any given district is going to raise a different amount of money per ATM and their local state local she could be different you're looking at the highest wealth districts and Quinn child one of that track is than one hundred forty four dollars students change with again the local share going up a hundred forty four dollars state you're going down a hundred and forty four dollars we're at. quintiles for street use down to say fifty four dollars per student because of that mail just not is in as much might be and a bigger chunk is going. State funding. Next slide. this is looking at the access part of maintenance and operation mail so this is a these are the goals that orders approved for districts to spend sort of above and beyond at twenty five mil mandated levy and as of twenty eighteen nineteen fifty nine or about a quarter of the twenty thirty five districts were raised additional dust Russian urinals and that it will rage our range from a point one males the very small amounts to the tenants with the additional average being about two point seven three so roughly two and three quarters mills on average the race for those fifty except raising additional discretionary mills. There are a ton districts that raise additional dedicated maintenance and operation also those mails are dedicated to a specific purpose and that amount range from just under a male point nine bill to what. Statutory limit. there doesn't seem to be a very strong correlation between additional and then males above the twenty five milieu Archie and And local property tax well so the correlation was only point two two nine which is a fairly modest correlation so I'm into it is though well is at least a prime driving factor for whether or not just decides what go for additional Nichols they're not. For the Overall for the revenue and and local wealth that it's also relatively modest Correlation and your generally when we look at correlations and whether that correlation indicates risk what. The benchmark that was suggested by pike is not an that it that's equal or below appoint five or relation. For the equitable soon both cases the state is At the very strong correlation between raising additional revenues and and local property tax wealth of the districts. Other shows basically the crease and the number of districts that have sex the US maintenance and operation knowledge that above twenty five mills from two nine the twenty eighteen nineteen can see it's gone from a forty districts in or nine sandwich to the highest yes seventeen eighteen and one dropped off for eighteen nineteen so twenty third over the span of this time you may have roughly a twenty two four X. now collecting a different mills in there seems to have been a relatively six any crease between sixteen seventeen and seventeen eighteen and know for sure what that may be one possible explanation in this probably would take digging into this little bit more whether to say that some are real all of this is that during the early part of the distribution from about nine ten to fifteen sixteen this state region increasing the foundation amount by between one and a half to two percent each year and then after start sixteen seventeen yet this was more around one percent increase per year so we don't know if possible ET districts found themselves because they were getting as much of an increase in the nation on I just. All I'm trying to meet training programs in the US in trying to raise some additional revenues above above the foundation amount so that's one possible explanation but is not so sure of. Next slide. So we're going to have a lot of these sort of confusing looking As we look at the various pieces of data but really what what we do I am it's to be helpful in is is getting a general sense of trends across time each one of those lines represents a different wealth quintiles and then there's a line that shows the state average so for those of you that have just so the average state average is the Green Line or the line if those of you will have black and white a line that had the Smalls as the markers where every time there's a ban on the line you'll see a small circle. Highest wealth Quinn title is the dark blue line the line that has large squares Stan and so that's the the wealthiest quintiles districts the second tile or text wealthy when Thailand districts is the Orange Line or the line and. Round workers in this metal Quinn style is gray or has I a diamond so looks like a basically are recited I am in shape. Fourth time also the second least wealthy quintiles of districts it is. With the line with tried it in then fifth Quinn top L. or the the queen style of the poorest districts in terms of a set. Also is the light blue line or the line with the smaller boxes. Consistent throughout the rest of these a slight but basically they chose not it was quite a bit more variation in the access mill levy your mil rates in the early this time distribution and so or nine ten others is quite a bit of variation between the the one child for that had the smallest and regional rate and that you are quite child were quintiles three had the highest average rate over time and particularly started around sixteen seventeen there is that the the the the rate for each one of these quintiles has become a close closer together and tell we're really looking at a spread between two and a half and three males on average reach the queen's. So for very reason is that we can't be exactly sure of. Yes a lot less variation in the in the difference is an average no rates across these different wealth quintiles. this is again looking at the same quintiles looking at estimated access maintenance revenues radium so what we can see here is that that dark blue line of the line the big boxes at the top is Quincy I wonder the wealthiest quintets they've did about the bandage over time throughout the entire care that we're looking at you know ranging from roughly from the average roughly from it looks like the average was about two twenty five two hundred and thirty you know not whereas the quintiles one was raising about four hundred dollars radion. Up to about still about a hundred you're actually almost two hundred and fifty dollar difference in eighteen nineteen so the average up. We're not to about three hundred dollars for ATM in eighteen nineteen so that's the Green Line with the line with the small circles I would. One districts were still raising right around five hundred dollars per pupil so I still me in a bit of an advantage on the other one title five the light blue line on the line with the small boxes at the bottom except for ten or eleven tended to have the least amount revenue and so on. Third at around fifty dollars of additional revenue per pupil by eight to nineteen the or at just under a hundred fifty dollars per pupil and then the tiles were more or less in the middle but pretty much Their own sequence pretty much like one title so you have a question I have in in twenty eight to nineteen you are quintiles five raising the least amount you have the title to the requirement I'm sorry that one of the triangles races can most better these them out for people ARE quintiles three the gray line of the line with the diamonds is is most in and so on so it's almost in perfect order from what least wealthy quintiles I ask when tiled I'm much more in praise for people. Five. Now we're moving on to the broader question of fund. The next light was your so we take questions here on the tax for more are you sure you office will be so good yours if there's any questions on that section we love to take this now. We have a one question hello. Russian Springer. Yes thank you Mr chairman back on page ten still in that you're a statistical analysis looking at that That analysis is based upon two hundred and thirty five school districts stories of the sample. it's based on all two hundred and thirty five school districts that were in existence and twenty eighteen nineteen thanks all. one at the. I guess page fourteen I guess where were you say show us by all the colors you have the admin they increases and decreases is there some way we can find out what the money was spent what causes those dips and dives especially that the the role of the they're the rises I guess more than anything was it for example did somebody build a new something or whatever sale way to know that what I'm asking you are not in an easy way. Anything in your data. Well this is this is a permanent again so will number one so these are only operating revenues were not what we're not a. Dollars immediate that so um so um construction of one play a factor but no I believe lease we don't have currently available I don't think we could get down to What districts are respectively just looking at these access revenues are how they're being out probably a survey in your entity into districts to find out I'm sorry about the bad example but but there that that should be something though not that I'm asking to do it that school districts could just give us that information we could figure out for ourselves so that we could see patterns of what money how money was being spent that in that call the that because the rises in the rise and fall. Center this is just most we get into this right now what I want to work with thank you know talking. It and see if we can I can the source code on reddit went to type of expenditure similar to what You know our does on that it growth and declining enrollment study where they meet the source of the funding directly to what it's being spent on we can say that project or buying expires the but we can say that category of spending that perhaps okay well I'm asking now madam chair in anticipation of discussion on equity and I just want to ask that if when we get into equity those kind of a larger more amorphous kind of discussion if there is anything we ought to know about how we are defined in equity and has anything to do with this chart that we ought to know going forward. Thank you. Representative Springer. Climent there you go all right thank you once again based upon soon Senator Elliot so. Question in her comments of would you explain I'm still back on page team what were the Verrall bulls that you all utilized for this analysis this desist gold analysis that was me. all of the data come from the the my school's database that the department of education collects and reports. School district reported data or a data that the state uses to calculate a revenues and aids so the uniform tax rate of course that's obviously twenty five mills but then also report the this this database the my school database also reports by districts yes an old payments in operation bills that are raised by districts of the that the five mills and they have a separate category for the district's spending that are raising bills for the the dedicated I am in the operation revenues so so it's basically it's the data that the state you and districts required for where they are revenue calculations for for a. Okay so foundation for clarification so then you're just basically you basically utilize the meals that we reported by each of the districts is that what you're saying. That's correct yes this is all this is all reported state or district generated. And based upon the meals that they each district report it. Yes and that was the only thing. Yes thank you. Thank you. Clothing right along. All right you ready continue. All right still again it in an effort to not duplicate with the bureau of legislative research is doing we did not test do sort of what we get what I would consider what we would consider to be a traditional equity study where we're looking at district or revenues and expenditures and calculating things like a coefficient very ation correlation will go well clued it acts in that sort of thing because the the the bureau as this every few years I think I love the most recent report that I've seen very comprehensive from twenty seventeen they've looked at revenues and expenditures in calculated all the traditional very bold scent and analyses that are used so in to add something to what the bureau is already doing we thought we were at how equitably certain education educational and what's all like it your quality Variables for a programmatic area bills electrical was our L.. The people of quintiles as well as using again some of the the equity statistics my question variation and correlation justice how well those are distributed across across rex. move on to the the next slide Justin. So here we have a look at service summary of what the most recent report from the bureau of legislative urged showed this is looking at a three year period for fiscal fourteen fifteen and sixteen one exactly two measures one that was basically the foundation and a couple of other miscellaneous funding properties funding streams and then found I saw the other categorical slike Like isolated schools and that sort of thing so a little bit bigger pot of money was included in that second group and side of this table and I'm going to the because most of you are probably familiar with that but overall what they found is that you know by and by the the school finance system in Arkansas is is pretty equitable of all the question of variation general the general the standard that by I guess not and have sat is around you equal to or less than point ten point zero point one L. you also Arkansas is on average a little bit higher than that but not Regis the higher so you know that would be much of a concern the Clune index is about should be for a and equitable system and basically McLuhan and tax measure is I'll equitably revenues or expenditures whatever you're looking at in this case it's it's revenues how we make our distributed between the adjuster ninety fifth percentile and fifth percentile so kind of the not the very freedoms but sort of the the high end of wealth in the little and. Or efficient which again looks out how I could have been the distributed by percentages of students generally that she your round point zero five or lower and again in some years it actually I guess in twenty sixteen it actually was lower for the addition property tax funding again it's not you know significantly above that are you know about the only area where the state is probably on the high end or less equitable and is under the fiscal neutrality Sure we're we're looking out of the correlation coefficient between the two steps of revenues and local well or the assessed value per per student or ATM and the we would like to see a number that's less than equal to or less than a point five in here is that the state is generally somewhere between roughly point age and point not so little bit high and that is is statistics for Arkansas hold are pretty good and shall walking on pretty equitable system. So what we decided to look at in lieu of doing the work that the the bureau was already done is we looked at several different input Syze and these include our personnel resources we look that teachers for one thousand students administrator for one thousand students. Senate teachers in a district that have master's degrees. Every two years of experience and four four teachers nos two even though it's not are not but I guess in and be maybe becoming on a less less less reliable measure of teacher quality over time but generally AT up short of other measures available we offer okay your teachers with amazing years of experience at being as being indicators a teacher quality of them. I'm teacher or S. remembered salaries an administrator average salaries which would suggest Sir what's the ability districts to to attract and retain quality educators whether their classroom teachers or industry. in looking at these personal resources these are the equity statistics so we're looking at again across the period of time from twenty thirteen fourteen twenty thank you we're looking at a teachers FOR thousand students and administrators per thousand students and if you look at the the coefficient of variation no we would like to be under one we're this is a little bit higher but again there may be reasons are beyond forty billet districts may choose to have fewer or more teachers no larger or smaller class sizes I don't think the the range of variation is concern I'm particularly one okay at the correlation coefficients of this is looking at a what is the correlation G. jurors or administrators for thousand students and the local wealth of tricks and fairly low welcome that point five benchmark so I it doesn't look as local wealth isn't with the prime driver of either now how did you to your class sizes or how many administrators. so this is again this is a chart with the same color and or markers indicating both the average and then the five different wealth quintiles. And I would dispatch for for the the teacher number of teachers per thousand students well yes quintiles anti one of that line at the top has more teachers for thousand students than than the other quintiles this also shows that over time I am this time period of twenty thirteen fourteen eighteen nineteen of the number of teachers sass hole as been going up two thousand and so they're based the more to is your even though in this because four thousand students were controlling for enrollment growth so this is really kind of above and beyond in rope broke this is just additional teachers that are being hired for various reasons which does show that the highest the one the districts with the most teachers with thousand students are also on wealthier districts at some of the thank yous the the light blue line of the line with the the small boxes. One time districts of those districts that are least assessed value per pupil and that that fiscal health except for a couple of years tended to be have was teacher thousand students up the pretty closely aligned with also the fourth when Tyler and the next set of poorest districts Well it's heartening to see that all districts have increased for for whatever the reasons looks like probably quit but the wealthiest districts and Quinn tile to the next set of districts had the. Greatest increase over this time period but I will find a little bit more variation if you look at twenty thirteen fourteen is like all of the lines are a little bit more tightly packed as we get to see ninety there's a little bit more variation particularly between. X. infantile one Quinn title to and then the other districts and when Giles three and three and five okay even though the statistics are showing that there are a strong relationship to two. For this the the chart within the indicate that there might be something going on but also there other other choices that districts are making other reasons why districts are are hiring more teachers get even given the number of students that they have. Next slide Justin. We go back one more slide I think there should be okay here administrators for thou increase source. Up with the same chart only looking at administrators for thousand students and while the eye chart teacher showed a trend toward more teachers for thousands is this shows probably a bit of a decline looks like on average it's been roughly the same if you look at thirteen fourteen and this is the Green Line or the light circles almost right in the middle of act it. Seven point five and the thirteen fourteen and then it ended up just below the line of seven point five at eighteen nineteen then you had. Truly the wealthiest districts and Quinn tile one that dark blue line of one big boxes it is you know I actually had looks like a pretty significant decline estate quintiles four or the the yellow line is a line with the the triangles whereas the other day it looks like the kind of bounced around a little bit from year to year but overall ended roughly in the same place at the end of the time so look at less of it. Current for administrators next slide. then this is the next set of variables for personal resources this is looking at out of our teacher quality you proxies so looking at a percent of teachers with A may and average years of experience for teachers and again you know the variation isn't great typically the question of variation is around. Three offer both of these a little bit lower for years of experience than it is for teachers with that may and. Local relationship basically no relationship these are very low correlations with wealth in fact to the extent that there is a real issue shepherd is actually in relationship between local wealth never jurors of X. if you look down at the correlations in the very last row of. next slide. And so this is looking at basically the data presented in table graphically and we see that between thirteen fourteen fifteen sixteen all of the request tiles and and obviously the average percent teachers dropped quite a bit so I'm assuming that's probably due to maybe estate of retirements experienced you your senator and around Mays over time I left the so my memory eight if I need your teachers who probably tended to have degree or something less than a master's degree maybe a bachelor's degree plus ex number of credits but but had and attain a map to be at that point and then in sixty nine eighteen nineteen kind of see gradual return or at least increase in the percentage and I would imagine we. At this a trend over over the next couple years it'll probably get back up to that you forty forty five percent range Oddly enough just go back real quickly but just in so oddly enough although the the queen tile one of those wealthiest districts the the one with the big boxes are dark in color at the fourth of Quinn Tyler those kind of the second chorus Senate districts are close match to cross the years in terms of G. issues with with the inmates you're basically it does there seem to be a very strong Isshin ship the wealth quintiles in your percentage because the button that Lois time contract five is kind of in the middle of the pack at least up sixteen seventy to drop some little bit after that but not a huge relationship that this chart or the the the statistics show between a teachers with an ace and local well it. I'd. So this is the same same chart basically by looking at average years of experience by wealth Quinn tile and what this is that there's been a very definite trend toward less experienced teachers so this would indicate that there is probably as the teachers began to retire there be getting to be replaced by younger teachers with a lot less or a lower level of educational attainment and I would guess again if we continue to look at this over the coming years that you're going to see those lines start trying to not be. And this shows that again the readers of experience not a lot of relationship with local wealth because the that the line that's at the top for most of the years that late Lou line of the small boxes that's the poorest sat districts are Quinn tile of district. You tend to have the most experienced teachers as at the beginning of of this time period actually the highest wells districts the queen tile one districts have the lowest average level of X. and then of the last few years of sort of the middle Quinn tile when times I under the line that the diamonds had the lowest so I just. Local more wealth only to pay later role in in whether or not you were able to retain and hire more experienced teachers like sign. Now we're looking at the last set of variables for personal resources in this is average salaries for a teacher or classroom for now and and what the classroom means is after the date of that we look at of the department of the other teachers along with librarians and counselor so it's a little bit more than just a classroom teachers it also includes support staff and then the average street or salaries and again That's one level of variation if you look at the coefficient of variation it's all for particularly for a teacher salaries it's barely above the point one better and actually falls below in eighteen nineteen and your fairly similar for administrators and again very little re issue shall we look at the correlation coefficient between local and and salary level so salary what we'd sets will lead by some other factor maybe it's lady mark labor market so they're really looking at what are the previous wages for perhaps careers out there for for people without a college degree and and that's where they're study the salaries but apparently At least local wealth is not factor in how much your toward many years of being paid. Slide. So this is looking at the average a classroom salaries again it's teachers plus librarians and counselors annual see there's a slight trend and these are not adjusted for inflation so there is a trend toward higher salary some of that is due to inflation some of that due to just maybe salary increases but again you know the the the two queen tiles that are at kind of the top for average teacher salaries is that Quinn tile one so those wealthy districts but then also I'll for the Senate districts then or the second least wealthy that's the or the triangle you know is it is you know. Right behind Quinn Tyler one so this is just kind of further evidence and looking at this this chart that wealth and future salaries are not highly correlated. So the next slide is sort of the same chart for remembers this your salary and again showing a trend toward higher salaries some of this due to inflation these are also not inflation adjusted and I should get question adjustment in actually in both cases shows salaries down a little so even though salaries have been going out they haven't been going up enough to account Lucien. Just seeing this is a little bit simpler to look at in terms of under. Nine by looking at the the on adjusted numbers but again it looks like critically and in later years likes twenty seventeen eighteen twenty eighteen nineteen that's tile ones to the wealthiest districts and Quinn title for the second beast wealthy districts that tend to have higher res tile two was sort of total of act until twenty eighteen nineteen when it's average when not produced pretty markedly from seventeen eighteen and then we the third quintiles like rail line of the language of diamonds where they sort of so called or is decreased between between sixteen seventeen seventeen eighteen and then rebound a little bit the eighteen nineteen so little bit of a quite sure that to the might be possible if if you enough administrators in a district that if you have you know turn up relatively few number of administrators and bringing in new. It looks like we have lost market and has not internet so I'm going to I think up for him and so he is Mr. The movement to wrap it just in our my back. Yes so and also just check on time mark we then in that was in our in this presentation we can wrap this up in about the next ten minutes I think the office of. Okay okay okay let's go on the slide. So similar to what we did with personnel resources we also look at programs resources and so what we did is we looked at the percentage of students taking the courses in high school percentage of thank you your science courses in an age of schools within a district I'm better off free either before or after school programs or summer school programs and again these are all data that are taken from my school database from the department of education I want to mention is that of the percent of students taking AP or computer science courses these are not on duplicated counts so students taking more than one AP course their confidence numbers so when we say that you know say forty percent of students in a high school are taking or in a district are if you courses that may not be exactly true because you may have you know numbers is that are taking a more than one computer science course rate P. course but still give us an idea of the level of engagement I this is. Next slide. So this is looking at the equities statistics for the percentage of students taking AP or computer science courses in sees a lot of variation specially for computer science courses that's when back even you know to thirteen fourteen or probably work a lot of districts that were offering you know what work computer science courses because you can see with the question a very ation it goes from very very high number well over over seven up to just over one so so as was gone by the there's less variation number of it is taking Peter science courses and strix early consistent variation for kids taking AP courses in very little relationship or while next slide. So this is showing the percentage of students in a district taking AP courses in high school and the other looks like it the general trend is that before more students particularly between twenty thirteen fourteen and the remainder of the time series more students in its course. I'll looks like there is some relationship with the least of wealth quintiles in that in the nineteen if you've got the the queen tile one the wealthiest districts with the kind of as percentage of kids taking the courses and the fifth one tile poorest districts with the lowest percentage of kids. This is the same information but for computer science courses and I think what we what we're showing here is that Arkansas about sixteen seventeen there to work a lot of opportunities to take computer science a probably a lot of high schools addendum computer stuff this is science classes or had a very limited offering and then I'll really off you can also be some maybe some data issues issues a weird districts got better at reporting these data but there's a obviously a cough between sixteen seventeen seventeen eighteen under a rock it. The percentages are sort of roughly aligned with the wealth quintiles with the or S. districts at bottom the wealthiest districts that are but it's really ET closely compact any kind ranging between about eleven separate and sixteen percent so not a huge difference in between the highest in different districts next. this is looking at the second center program resources that we look that up for or this presentation needs are basically extra instructional time so before and after school programs and summer school programs we only had four years of data available that's you can see it I mean and the gun this is the percentage of schools in the district offering these programs Relative to schools offered before school programs I nearly half schools offer after school programs and about a third of schools offers will programs pretty consistently across the the four years for data that we have okay Asians pretty high correlation with wealth pretty will. Yes and so this is looking at the roughly the fourteen percent of schools on average within districts that offered before school programs and actually it looks like if you were a lower wealth district you more likely to offer before school programs we've got tiles four and five near the top quintiles one the wealthiest districts sort of. In eighteen nineteen all of a sudden as the highest percentage but over the the main of order of the previous year is is generally either the or the two poorest quintiles the districts that that were most likely to offer were more of the schools in these districts elected or. This is for after school programs little bit less duration and the district of the districts that tended to have more of their schools offering if after school programs were in the second Quinn tire the fourth when tile the second second least wealthy side of districts are. He what west wealth districts those in the fifth when tile the lake we liner aligned with the small boxes were about in the middle of the if the start of the twenty fifteen sixteen of the start of the time series kind of fell off by twenty eighteen nineteen so there of the percentage of their. From you over fifty percent to just over forty percent we're at the top quartile going title one shot up to sixteen seventeen eighteen nineteen from operating about four percent of their schools offering after school programs to of roughly percent I'm so quite inadequate time next. this is looking at summer school in again the fourth when Tyler that the second lowest wealth districts more likely to offer summer school programs The. Bills see kind of a similar trend with of the poorest districts and Quinn tile five dropping off over time whereas other wealthy rex tile one of picking up and and having more of their districts and more of their schools offering after the summer school programs And also the variation particularly the variation between the fourth question tile in the aisles really bumped up we're as a relatively tight among the other work when time turns a very. And then finally we took a look at educational outcomes and we looked at and again these are from the the my a school data we looked students at all agreed grades meeting or exceeding standards on the ACT as after literacy assessments that we also looked at the number disciplinary actions these include mixed well students were expelled in school suspensions and after school suspensions for one hundred it's. This shows again was the summary of statistics or forty three the variables can variation not very much in terms of the aspire quite a bit of variation very high coefficient variation for the disciplinary actions and again for essential to the wealth. Next slide. So this is looking at ACT aspire math by quick tile and surprising A. R. be surprising but actually lowest wealth quintiles this quick tile for every from this distribution had the the highest percentage of students meeting or exceeding standards whereas. The districts in the second most wealthy quintiles when trying to the Orange Line with X. circles pretty consistently help of the lowest percentage of students meeting or exceeding standards and then sort of one stop in the middle. So the next slide is looking go back one there should be a literacy slide in there. so this is the same slide saying charter type of looking at ACT aspire literacy and I guess the one thing acts really stands out to me at least is you know a fairly significant drop between sixteen seventeen seventeen eighteen and then not only in twenty eighteen nineteen and again that's though the least wealthy group of districts and when tile five that have insisted he. Hi yes percentage of students meeting or exceeding standards and the students tricks one tile to or the second one what most wealthy set of districts battered the generally has the the lowest percentage of students meeting or accept and. Next slide. The final slide takes a look at disciplinary actions per one hundred students at the this one you know I would guess the best way to describe this is that the lower the better thank you mean that you're not having a lot of disciplinary actions to take or you're letting kept it away with things or you found some other alternative wait when was the issues but again we find that the the the SAT least wealthy districts and when tile five had consistently for every year have of the number of deaths the disciplinary actions the one hundred students and at least three years of that Quinn tile to with the second most wealthy districts at the highest number with the other districts bouncing around a little bit in the middle right around the after. And with that we can take questions on the the X. equity heard of the presentation. Representative Springer. Yes thank you madam chair since I'm new to this committee I have several questions because there's some terms of that that I need to have defined is that okay. Yeah all right. First of all on Page sixteen will. You talk about yes pay sixteen you can give me a would you please give me a brief definition of you force meant by a horizontal equity and fiscal neutrality. So the refers to How will this system is so either however could will the distribution of revenues or spending or expenditures is four average the so it's and you know sometimes that's inside described as equitable were we're treating of the average students so not if you can in consideration additional student needs like special education or low income or some other risk factors Fiscal neutrality is that relationship between the the event or resources and local well which in an arc is measured by it sets about you of property in the district eighty eight per student so so one is looking at how equitable the research. Also the median student or the average student and fiscal to trap looking at how closely. Available tied to work well so I. horizontal equity of the less variation The more act the system to be offer fiscal neutrality the lower the correlation more equitable of simply because we really don't want and what is bad and you know definitely been the basis of act lawsuit time as Ben when the amount of resources available to a local district is really based on how much local wealth that has but with the state like arc where you roughly sixty percent of resources are being put it by the state typically you're going to have a fairly fairly deed fiscal neutrality states that you're going to you're going to have a relatively fiscal neutral system. Okay I hope that answers your yes up next question used you speak of these Q. one two three four and five is there a key to show the wealth of each of one of those districts that BLR could share with me as a person new to this committee like the cues because in each one of these you talk about a wealthy districts in the in not so will be in that sort of thing so I'm trying to figure out how these Q. one through five apply to your a statistical analyses that you have on the different pages such as pages sixteen eighteen twenty one twenty four and twenty eight so I'm trying to figure that out. Yeah we certainly have that that information we can provide to you right now certainly be included in a final report but quickly we look at the assessed value per pupil in the wealthiest districts of Akron tile one it's about a hundred six thousand per pupil so that district has in terms of its assessed value it has a hundred eighty six thousand dollars of assessed value the district and then when I live and then five you just just tell me some entered you know and then I can get that later so what does five mean well we're the the least wealthy get district seven Walker is out just over fifty thousand so less than a third of the wealthiest this. Okay so then if we look at chart sixteen for you talk about the Fundacion and property tax funding and the foundation plus the categorical funding in so why is there no break down based upon I guess I'm not understanding why so no break down based upon the the districts placed between one and five so for four of the wealthy districts with respect to this and FOR of the core of the not so wealthy districts in this particular chart. And. The walls the study was was already done by the the bureau of labor labor of legislative research so we don't want to do except if you have a copy of their twenty seventeen report they actually do show these by broken out I'll revenues in the to a whole other set of sees based expenditures per pupil so I'm so that they are all of the old but it's something that the bureau had already done and we didn't want to duplicate it that and spend time I'm on the other spouse in something that's that's been out there madam chair may I have that you can make a very brief it we were running on three hours now okay I understand so. May I have a copy of forty just see it sure okay alright I'll I'll say my questions one of the time okay thank you. Okay. Presented of della Rosa. Thank you madam chair actually detailing on white Representative Springer was asking I had the exact same question except for for all of the pages SO page sixteen eighteen twenty four thirty six all of them that have these statistical numbers on them could we get not now but in written form what these all meet we we are not. Mathematicians so in following this some sort of following you but not completely following you because it's just so much math in it so each chart is comparing different things it's very difficult so if I can get something written that explains to me what these are and the math of of what they are that would help me tremendously and will also save the entire committee a whole lot of questions. Me about this so that's number one is can I get the math of these. And then Question number two has to do it's kind of a combination between what was on page nineteen page twenty five so I noticed that on page nineteen everything sort of makes sense as you look it's the teachers per one thousand students by wealth when tile and they they kind of lay out. They in a manner that you would sort of expect him to the higher the higher the Quintel that the higher the number of teachers. But if you look at between twenty thirteen and the twenty eighteen the gap is widening between the lowest quintiles in the highest quintiles in it's it's actually it's increased by about forty percent the the difference between those so between that and then looking at page twenty five and I'm sorry to do this everybody but if you go look at page twenty five as well it. What I'm asking is is it fair to say that the higher wealth quintiles schools. Are using their money to buy more teachers at a higher salary per teacher. I think that's plunge that's what the it would show you know what what we're finding if you look at the statistics no there doesn't seem to be a strong core metes and local of style so the wealth of a district it is not the driving factor so there may be other I mean it's certainly competing factor but it's not the driving factor so there may be very very and you know programmatic choices that people in different districts are making in terms of whether they're going to spend more money on I have more teachers and reducing class up verses maybe by more technology to use for remediation programs or whatever it is so yet so there's. The trend for some of these certain resource variables that we looked at where the you know higher districts and it does look like they have an advantage whether that's all how much that's due to what will it is an old question because of the statistics don't indicate that well I'm cannot can I further confuse the issue then because if you go over to page thirty seven and thirty eight the quintiles get all. But stub compared to everything before and the the highest quintiles been performing or is been at a higher level than than all the rest up until you get to the point of meeting standards and then suddenly they dip so now I have an even bigger question because I hear from the smaller poorer districts I I constantly hear we can't afford the same teachers that the bigger districts have and so my perception has always been it's been AT A salary difference but according to this it looks like it's not just a salary difference but also a number of teachers difference they have higher paid larger number of teachers which made me think okay well that you know must be lower class sizes that they're going for but if you look at the performance on math and literacy. They're not performing better so that does not seem to indicate so I will go to the crux of the question if they're hiring more teachers what are they hiring them for because it doesn't look like it's for math or literacy what are these teachers being hired for is that something that you guys can look at for that higher Quinn tile to see if they're if they're adding more teachers where they putting them and why because that's that's a huge question I have in my head after looking at this data. Johnson's overseeing two things we can work with the cochairs to see if that state of that we can we can all I we're clearly hearing we need some little bit more summary information on and what all the statistics look like it will work on that DO one also. Absent a big part of our larger I'm just a cool now says that we are doing with west said is to look at how all these pieces work together in relationship to outcomes for kids and so right now this is just a relationship between wealth Kerr kid out the wealth for student community and these outcomes but it doesn't take that we're not putting it all together which still larger statistical analysis will do which comes out little toward at late summer as one would be bringing that. Okay okay. But we will try and get that information that you want and and they can give that to jail G. board mission she can distribute that. Thank you hi. Of Johnson. Thank you madam chair of Mr Fuhrman each I just wanna go back to the the chart you had about the percentage of district schools offering before school programs and after school programs I'm concerned that there may be a. A dramatic change in that because we were such a seeing schools that are. Going to four day weeks. And second of. There's. Well the covert thing obviously has some impact on the overall program such as that but specifically is there anything that was gleaned statistically related to. A eight. I know we're we're talking at eighteen nineteen is the last year on this but is there anything that was gleaned during the research that shows a trend in that change because with the with a lot of these districts doing doing a four day week they're gonna be offering these after school in preschool program just any any information that you have on there. This is mark from the twenty twenty they are not available want a lease for These in the count so of schools offering before after or summer school so there's really no one knowing tell you to come out without without survey districts individually to find out what they are indeed you. Well I fear that a lot of these will the for example I've one particular destruction mine that's in Mike senatorial district that just voted this year to begin a A four day week start again in twenty twenty one and this was this photo Kurd before the culvert shut down so I just presume it's not only going on it's probably going on with much more into Z. as in shall we say but obviously as we go into planning for next year these are things we need to know that we're yes we're looking backward and we appreciate what you provided giving us information about the last three four years but this is something that may be extremely relevant to the whole adequacy situation when we're seeing up almost a sea change in the the schools that are going to four day week some level maybe doing it because of minimum wage laws and and the noncertified personnel of being able to maybe push down their payroll costs on on the noncertified personnel but anyway I'll I'll leave that is kind of a loose and as you are continuing to do your job and if you find any information that's relevant to us in that I'd be most appreciative thank you thank you madam chair. Senate Senator Sturch. Thank you ma'am chair mark Justin this is Senator Sturch I just kind of wanted to reiterate what represent della Rosa said in on some of these charts and different things if you could and just a note at the bottom where there's just something simple like you know not correlated or there is some correlation that be most helpful that I I also want to reiterate on like page thirty for example context is key and so if you could even go a step further and you know maybe put some context into why certain numbers are skewed or not for example that's the one about computer science program that was one of the governor's big initiatives we even went as far to give extra incentives to teachers who would offer that and take training themselves so that would be the context for why it that number such a high number but just small notes along the way with the would be a great help to me I know some thank you ma'am to. Thank you. Senator Chesterfield. Thank you madam chair I'm looking at page thirty two and thirty three and get all the other concerns let's what constitutes or did they say what constituted a before school program and an after school program or that we defined that I already by the bureau. I mark Fuhrman so we I don't have an exact definition of what that is we can check with the department of education folks to see how all the. It's not because I don't want to get straight B. about we offer the kids some food in the morning and that constitutes before school program and I'd also be interested in because a lot of these poor districts have longer rights but their kids on buses which would mean that they therefore don't have after school programs because keys don't have access to transportation. So that's what I have so many transportation questions because it it it pays an in and a huge role in whether or not we are able to provide some of these programs for children. Because I can't get there I can't take the program. By making any sense to you. Yes this. You make a complete sentence a it's a great question I'm not sure if we will have the data to answer that question again with without doing some you know survey in our districts or something about you know ask about Adam and stopping these programs but we can search thank you. To jump amend brown for the record we are going to be doing that districts survey so I've been taking some notes on areas of additional information that we might think to include in that district survey to supplement the data that's available what I would appreciate it if you would consider adding that because I want to know what constitutes a before school program I don't want people to be telling us we've got a before school program the only thing they're doing is offering breakfast in the morning and what are the impediments to after school programs because if transportation is it then those key it's who are performing the leased or have the least access it may be because they have the least access to transportation which is a huge issue in the education of our children. Thank you very much thank you madam chair. All right we're ready to proceed with the last part of believe. Presentation on growth and funding and declining enrollment funding I. Yes in the interest of time and we were we're going quite a ways I'm gonna try to go through the whole thing I Gendel junk we're just be here to answer questions if need be. I will lead you know kind of what we talked about before we recovery review would be all are already looks out for the growth funding in the cladding role in funding. Review the current approach is Arkansas uses how other states and adjust. The similar issues then model a couple alternatives that we model to the state those in. So the bill are study that looks a growth funding including a role that funding. Overall ET entrance across the state and then more specifically those transfer districts you are They're getting rather declining enrollment funding examines changes in that funding totals over time both by number of districts in the amount of funding and then examines how those funds are like damn expended sure areas would actually tracks the source code of the funding and then wear those dollars so we did not replicate any of that we really focus much more on or there's some alternative ways to think about. I am not going to try to walk through perfectly the the approach that is handled on each time but I want to talk a lot of little bit more actually about. That conceptual framework for what state to put this in so first think he's here is to remember that as a state Arkansas funds there your districts prior year. If you're not using current your skin got yours in prior years. And so for declining enrollment has a theory in action why we why we think about a declining role in funding is that has districts I'm Lou students there's a question about how efficiently how efficiently they can lose resources that they've contracted for assistance go that and then there's also a question about just continuing today I'm education opportunity of. And so you know currently basically the state looks at Two years ago student health compared to one year ago student cal looks at the difference there and provides additional funding for those students not the really simple way take a look at that information for the cleaning woman I'm on the gross it's a little bit more complex using a couple different data points but for growth the that you're you're actually here again is specially when you're funding on prior your county you have work is in the system for a school district then you're being funded on. Rushing becomes how many of those kids could you absorbing your current resource allocation how many really come looking costs now there's certain pieces of. The client engrossed things like you know if you're buying you test textbooks if you have less kids you have to by law you have mortgage anymore there are certain resources you have to really get who can but there are many resources that are a little bit at a at a higher scale so you know you can probably added cater to to a classroom after class sizes are too big you can't really get rid of a teacher if you only lose one or two kids from each class so that's in the two ends of the client engrossed in what we are looking at. Wanna make sure everyone knows and I am sure you all do you get both declining enrollment in growth funding there are absolutely districts you qualified for bowl in a year you have a district two over the past couple years was shrinking we're looking at last year's cal within this year had a ball. District just gets the better of the two funding amounts. Well funding nationally you know already talked about really the the reasoning behind that again it's more important we would say in a state that's using prior your count because you you have more kids in the classroom what you're funded on. Nationally seventeen states are providing some sort of running for growing districts. One of those states you don't provided they they don't provide it because they're using current year. There is also there are some states just so you know that even using current your county we'll do multiple counts is that current your count sometimes either is or you see growth in districts you're really building districts or actually growing also throughout the year they're trying to catch up for funding for the new kids who are coming throughout the school. These are within our comparison states the state to have Rose provisions there aren't many I in fact in the majority of states don't have a growth provision and that's a balance between the using currents for some of the balances are they using current count or previous you're out thank you know just a quick example like Marilyn uses prior your account but they do not provide any sort of. Even with. Examples from our comparison states one is Tennessee their focus here really is much more on the high growth districts so they don't fund simply because there is any sort of grow it's the growth has to be over a certain level which is two percent so there's basically you know conceptual framework here that district can absorb funding for new students below that to percent threshold. Mississippi looks at funding over time so if you've been growing for a three year period. Consistently over the Sir you're set to go off for years you get of the average percent growth for those three years added to your student membership in Louisiana is a state that actually is using a previous year counts too two to build the funding and then doing two more accounts to make up for the growth over time. We wanted to model at something against the Arkansas Roach the one that we picked year is really trying to measure this idea of only funding for a larger scale growth and so we the Tennessee in this case and we look at that to percent minimum funding level. And so using this my school info data we found and you can see in the the top row of district level data between a hundred and nine hundred twenty four school districts received some sort of growth funding under the current construct. You were to go in and look at just the two percent growth though we calculated that you would actually have less than half in in in in eighteen nineteen almost a third of the district's tax receipts so you have all a lot of districts growing but growing at less than two percent. And it would shift the funding by about a third in most of the years so you have current funding of close to. Twenty four million eighteen nineteen that would be just over nine million if you. Enrollment again as you can imagine the really big topic especially for the rural schools and smaller schools in the country and I'm not gonna read the whole well here but basically there's a real vulnerable vulnerability with these districts as they shrink having less financial resources to provide the same level of student opportunity so that's what you know everything comes back to is yeah can you provide the same services and course work with kids as your declining and how do you get that done. So you know number of states make up for that as the reclining in. in many states and especially many rule state you have a lot of the cleaning districts that just is happening across the. So. Looking at a twenty fourteen report of temple there's twenty two states that have declining enrollment provisions that do this question well state to do more of a hold harmless which is to guarantee a certain level of funding from year to year. I will just say you know hold harmless can get really messy and you can end up really Hey I'm taking from other districts to keep districts held harmless so we would definitely moved more towards some sort of which you already do it cleaning enrollment adjustment. In sixteen states have no provisions. Our comparison states again there's still quite a few states you don't have. Vision for the cleaning woman that we found on the states that do. So yeah in Florida they don't take into the full impact of the decline quite at the level and even Arkansas does but they basically are thinking about twenty five percent of that decline in so they're looking at the amount of the client and then taking a twenty five percent of that that's the additional funding seeds. Many districts use some form of AS case there so that I can either you know number of kids being the highest for the last two years average being the highest or even the last three years average being the highest so you can some sort of averaging in order to Safin Apolo really coming in western states and you can actually go as far as a five year average your five your best. We want to look at two different approaches for declining enrollments So you know one we look at a three year average in and then the other percentage per year and I'll explain that more than a minute. your average basically we're staying with the concept of funding on the prior year but then looking at the two years ahead of that also in order to see if you took a three year average enrollment what would be the impact on funding for the state. What is clear is a three year rolling average of by a lot more funding than currents we we look at this a little different differently we're showing the additional number of students who would be funded. If you three year average declining enrollment versus your current look it just looks like. When you get there is. Most recent years over twenty million of additional funding would be need increase in. I don't know if I mentioned as well enough early on districts in Arkansas are funded on the prior year and so if they're continuing to decline or serving less kids in the fund at all so just the basic use of prior year funding helps cushion the blow it just researcher. So looking back three years is really going to far away from current practice current student counts if you would do. So the other thing we want to look at and it's A couple states and and a lot of folks talk about it is to try to wait the impact to the most recent years students and so you. Three year averaging but what you're saying is right or you're not would be worth fifty percent of the students total two years back would be worth thirty three years back would be worth twenty percent so you're trying to really say we we the most recent student counts are the most important data that we have it's it's close as to what's happening. Sixteen seventeen it actually would have been a little cost savings but overall again it's producing a lot more students I would be funded we thank you already have you know pretty good softening of the bloated you pretty much have a three year average since using the prior year I don't You want to talk to folks out there about the impact the declining enrollment and rose in our in our stakeholder engagement before we make any recommendations but the overall we aren't seeing anything especially in these two declining that would say you're really switch to that I think it'd be worth having some discussions about growth and how well folks can absorb those new kids and that's something we'll do during the. Pretty much acted as an auctioneer there some sort of a little too fast we're ready for questions. Senator Sturch. Thank you ma'am chair just and I just had a quick question I was curious to know if you'd ever analyze the options FOR just moving to current year funding for both you know we have arguments pro and con for both growth funding and declining in Roman funding you mentioned some of the alternatives you know for each bit just for both have you ever analyzed just moving to current year funding where they reported at the end of the quarter or something and then we fund on that. Senator I just. But I think that's a great question and we have looked at it in their studies and you know the difference between the two I think the reason state's most like prior year funding is a provides it's much easier to budget on and revised real clear transparency in the dollars districts so districts can we leave budget well I'm going into the next year. What happens when you're using current your account is that during the spring. Eight in the districts are correct creating you know an estimate of where they'll be and then that gets reconciled sometime usually and you know it's ACT over November December. You can have some swings I'm in specially in you know smaller district work couple kids can have a big swing in total percent funding you can make it a little harder or a lot harder to manage the resources going in. But it's not impossible and I think in the end what you do is kind of flat you would be better for your growing districts but will be more copies of the declining enrollment adjustment at that point because you the actual your account so you want to make sure your. Janice working with the cochairs as we think of a recommendation we can definitely model out what that might look like there's just pros and cons to both and and a lot of the pro is that transparency and predictability of prior year count. Folks know exactly what you have but then as you can see in the model specially for growth you have to make some adjustments for folks who work or getting worse. Sure thank you I figured it was both for the state and the school districts it's a cash flow issue and so I know it's it's harder whether we take an average of the last quarter in the current quarter or whatever it is and trying to think of ways that we can get more to an adequate picture of the here and now thank you and to thank you. So okay Bruce I think we've run out of questions here we have not not awful lot of information this afternoon. Mum lots for our brains to absorb and we will get questions I me answers to the questions that you had Representative della Rosa and Springer I think people would feel more comfortable if they have that those of those things can you hear me Brian. Now he can what can we will definitely get your check in with staff tomorrow and and just make sure getting guys everything any. Okay very good anybody else have anything here at all. Thank you this is been a good meeting lots of information we appreciate you all and we are adjourned. See.