Joint Budget Committee

Funding for category be category see all the new money that had been budgeted as well as a four percent across the board cut the category a. That's a projection we haven't begun to really feel the effects of that because our tax collections are always a month behind so although in the private sector the cuts are very real and very very felt very keenly we're still collecting from economic activity which was really before the code crisis hit so when we ended March we actually ended the year above forecast. However and we're watching this daily the receipts that are coming in are beginning to have an effect we are beginning to see a reduction activity so I anticipate will be presenting for the legislative approval pursuant to act one of the the regular FOR the fiscal excuse me the special session. Request for additional funding from the code rainy day fund which will be used to backfill cuts to programs and otherwise prevent loss of services. That in reality some of these cuts are are just projected. Well you're you're projecting a lot of this correct that's our revenue forecast is is a projection we're trying to predict how economic activity will roll out in the state and how that will affect state operations based on things that are really not for sure correct. As all right Mr chairman thank. Mr believe. There seem to be some federal funds are released last night for K. through twelve and higher education course we don't know all the details in sure you out on either of if any of this money. Can be used for higher education to feel any of these gaps that with that we're cutting it budget if that if that is possible of the administration will be looking into that and I guess as for Mister Walters to if we use any of these funds to the state funds to cut it to fill in the gaps of your will be looking at doing that won't you yes Sir and and one of the kind of big very bills that we've been trying to manage around is this large amount of federal dollars is made available to us in the carriage act but without a whole lot of detailed guidance on how and where we can use that so we'll certainly be looking at you know what do limitations on those federal dollars how can institutions use them some cases for example and higher ed and education my understanding is old does a lot of those dollars are going to be passed right along to the students a lot of those dollars are earmarked for specific needs. They might not necessarily answer all the problems that the institution has that result from our budget cuts so so that we're just gonna have to work with them on as the year progresses okay thank you senator Davis for you an eighty eight. You're recognized. Since we're stopping mid pandemic two and fix the productivity formula and I just want us to be mindful that this is a formula that was written by the institutions it's a formula that they approve year after year. And it's one that the two years continue to vote for and most of them probably don't have a choice because they're owned by a system. But we are forcing two years to agree to a productivity funding formula. That goes against their mission as a two year school we've seen year after year that it hurts most of the two years they lose money based on this productivity funding formula in my opinion this is not as this is not a legislative problem this is the system's problem and if these two years continue to lease year after year and we see it happening now then they need to take that at with the system that they belong to not S. we didn't write the formula we don't approve the formula. They write it they approve it they adjusted year after year. To benefit themselves to make sure the institutions they care most about do not lose funds that's how that formula's right near after year. When it gets bad. Like now on this pandemic when they see budget cuts they won the us and want us to fix it but they don't want us to mess with the formula they don't want us to understand it they don't want to have a say in it but they want us to fix the problem when they've got one. And in my opinion they should be taking this up with a S. U. system and you a system because the family they belong to those are the ones that make them vote for this productivity funding formula year after year that hurts them and causes them to lose money out of their base it's a systems problem I'm really disappointed that we're taking this up right now in the middle of the co that crisis when everybody else making cuts their budget. I'm curious if in the future we're gonna be mindful of that and look for ways to help. How the funding formula the productivity funding formula that actually helps two years meet their mission. What are we going to do in the future going forward to ensure that two years budgets are not cut almost across the board like this because they cannot meet the standards produced by the productivity funding formula we have that is more advantageous to four years I'd be curious at the governor's office is looking into that I'm curious of leadership looking into that what we're doing moving forward to ensure that these two years complete their mission and are not harmed by what they're supposed to be doing for our state's for state and citizens that try to get certificates and degrees to go into the work force that they can continue in their mission and not be hurt by this productivity funding formula and lease funding I'd like to know what leadership and with the governor's office is looking at in the future to ensure this doesn't happen. Up I'm not aware of any specific decisions that are made on that but I my expectation is that we will be taking another look at this process and certainly something we look forward to working with the General Assembly on in the twenty one session. Follow up please. Ahead I'm also curious how we're going to narrow if you are able to use federal dollars to fill in the gaps I mean if we're passing this to say that this money can come out of rainy day and restricted reserve where is the follow up in the accountability to know that if we're able to fill in gaps with federal dollars that we will see that happen. The following the accountability will come when the agency makes the request for additional funding from the code rainy day fund we're setting in the place a process to really kind of batch requests were asking agencies to project out every pay period they've got between now and the end of the fiscal year to look at their cost to look at their expenditures and when they say we need additional funding that's one and my office and others and will be reviewing what fund balances they have what additional funding including federal dollars or that they have how those funds can be used we don't want to get in a situation where we're second guessing the management but we also want to make sure that we're good caretakers the limited funding available the federal dollars do have limitations on them and those limitations you know are being written almost daily a lot of them we still don't know but if we can if an agency is able to operate on on federal dollars if there is a need that those federal dollars a meeting in my expectation would certainly be we do not need to me that with state dollars no state dollars could be used elsewhere. Fifty senator. All right who's in C. nineteen. Review the Bentley you're recognized thank you chairman of the I'm not a member of the committee and we've been very Salinger this hope and we're kind of an crunch time so Mr believe you can explain to me I'm I'm just a little frustrated by this whole process so we're doing here explain to me why were being told that they're getting a double hit and miss the beginning I'm sorry came out a bit late but can you explain to me were being told that they're gonna double hit on this is on I'm feeling to see sure the this kind of two processes going on the overlap and it hit the budget the first under the productivity funding formula process agencies or institutions of higher education there their performance was measured and some institutions received an increase in funding others saw their base funding in the revenue stabilization act reduced so that's one kind of in a one increase or decrease depending on the institution. The other is that we had to cut budgets the revenue stabilization act for those institutions that saw their funding decrease because of productivity now they're also seeing compounded on that cut from the RSA and I think that's where you're you're hearing that double hit on a double whammy talk. Can I have a follow up chairman just briefly. Okay quit thank you chairman I appreciate that so these productivity numbers have been out there for quite sometime in Arkansas is something new. These as have not known about those come in they should be prepared for these cuts for a law correct yes I think the sense is that the the productivity funding the way it's always been structure is that the cuts were imposed in category a of the RSA. Where is the institutions that gained from productivity that was in category B. of the RSA. Well when we cut the budgets in twenty category B. disappeared and I think there was a sense that will if those who benefitted probe from productivity cannot benefit is it necessarily fair to still imposed the detriment on those who who who did not benefit and so I think the discussion that we reach with leadership and looking over this issue was to go ahead and and say that okay in FY twenty for all intents and purposes what we're going to do is is say we're not doing productivity the winners from productivity did not benefit from it so let's go ahead and back fill this so that in FY twenty the the the cuts are not there those agencies are still getting cut from the revenue stabilization act for the broader budget cuts but this would lease back fill those amounts that were lost. Can I have another follow up chairman go ahead so I can understand that for twenty twenty but we're not getting any they're not getting the same cuts in the reverse it was is that act for twenty twenty one is that correct or they will it is a couple things going on when we put together the twenty one numbers the first thing that we did was we looked at how much that will they were getting in FY twenty and at the time we did that we thought productivity was still going into place so the if an agency was cut in twenty because of productivity that cut was carry forward into twenty one so if we're going to back fill the amount and twenty we need to make sure that we also backfill the amount and twenty one if that makes sense so that we don't carry forward those cuts. In addition because of the revenue forecast that's been put out and the the reality that we had to cut a two hundred million dollars from the balanced budget our expectation is if the current forecast is in effect that we will not do productivity again next year and it will be in the same situation next year that we're in now. One final comment and I'll leave it alone you know I'm getting phone calls from constituents across the board small businesses that are close and may never open again people to sent their seventh side to S. of child care and those businesses are done may never open back up and I'm just really disappointed that the one thing that we were trying to hold these institutions to a higher standard to put out a good product one that they agreed to and I they voted for that that's the thing or fill it but I look at it eight hundred forty five million dollar budget more to talk about one point five may I just have a little heart form with and I'm just I'm just gonna say that I think we can do better moving forward thank you chairman for your indulgence I appreciate it. All right senator Irvin you're recognized six. Can you talk to me about the federal and. Ninety eight you discussed when you make your comments on what they're receiving and how that's directed to the students I know that some other institutions I have already seen that and that's gone down to the students but is that that's money additional money is that correct those are those are federal dollars that were made available to the institutions to the correct act right directly to them that is not including the one point two five billion that the state of Arkansas got correct okay that's what I wanted to know and and so that's going straight to the institutions do you know how minutes money that is for the state of Arkansas we've received a schedule of how much per institution is out there okay on but we're still getting the details on kind of when that money will become available on how the institutions can use that but we do have some information on how that that funding will come out to do you have a total by chance for you have that schedule can you share that with us I can certainly share it with you okay that be great thank you Mr chairman thank you. Davis are you in seat thirty eight you're recognized thank you Mr chairman of Mr believe that's one follow up on what senator Irvin was asking so are you taking into consideration that one hundred seventy million that's going direct tire it institutions to the Care Act. Re using that are we considering that is in his or offset for their reduction in are saying. We we may consider it and in the current fiscal year and it during the special session the General Assembly set aside money in their code rainy day fund to offset losses and from the cuts to budgets and then they are I say this before you will Senate a large amount of money into the restricted reserve fund both those funds that are really to be used so that agencies or institutions that are struggling with their budget cuts can make a request to the governor and to the General Assembly for funding. When they make that request my expectation is that will go through a process to look at what are your current fund balance why do you need this money what you plan to use that money for and as part of that review certainly will be looking at outside sources of revenue like federal dollars so if an institution comes and ask for support from either one of these funds. For a purpose that those federal dollars are also meeting that would be a discussion to have with them at that time okay thank you. Speaker shepherd you're recognized. Thank you Mr chairman. Of Mr bleed I guess I have a question that I think the answer it would be important for us to keep in mind as we consider this. And no one at no one wants to be in the situation I believe part of what brought this issue to the forefront is a provision of Arkansas code annotated six sixty one to thirty four. Which subsection F. says in any fiscal year fiscal year for which the aggregate general revenue funding forecast to be available for state supported institutions of higher education is greater than two percent less than the amount provided for the immediate previous fiscal year the division shall not further implement the productivitybased funding model until the following fiscal year and I believe that's what senator Ingram referred to last thirsty and part of what started this whole discussion. That provision at I believe is is not drafted very well at all. Because while I understand from the department in the administration that technically that has not occurred because the forecast was revised the distributions were held down and then we have a of a reduced forecast for the coming fiscal year. Practically speaking what is a Kurd is what was likely in mind at the time that the statute was implemented and that this is a proposal that is more or less a compromise to maintain productivity based funding which is beneficial to those that have performed well but at the same time to provide some amount to those who have suffered losses under the model because the alternative and and at the time that it was passed probably the what could have been the intention of was that productivity could have gone out the window. And so would you agree that that is what has brought us to even consider this idea of one time payments at this point in time. Yes I do thank you. Senator Elliot you're recognized. Thank you Mr chair up Mr bleed I think we're talking about on the one hand we're talking about the performance funding on the other hand we're talking about funding for our operations. Because if the performance funding is is not there to make sure we have the money to operate the way we should there to parts of this budget. Is there any delineation somewhere that will this weekend maybe tease out performance funding. But what was the logic for how we cut on the operational side of how do we cut into it with just a flat Reduction the way it was across the board and what with that amount to for the operational budget for higher it. So in terms of the RSA come yes yes ma'am so the in the current year the way the our essays written and is that it it is a flat cut we reduce the category see we reduce category B. and whatever's left is reduced per ata proportionally across all in category a and so while we were my word discussing performance funding which is I think relatively easily two zero roll into a performance funding I think was never that thing that was going to guarantee us that the colleges and universities were going to have what they needed to operate and so in in a and a and a lot of ways some people might have more of an issue I don't know what they're operation operational side of the budget than with performance funding. But either way everybody is getting some cut in some fashion. And so if we get money from the federal government usually when we get these grants it comes with a cabbie ought that we can't use that money to supplant what had been funded out do you have any impression from and if your sources that that might be accepted this time around so that we could use it that way I think that there are a lot of states who would like that to be the case and they're being very vocal in the C. about that right now we're still working through how this process is going to work your unit when we talk about some of the federal funding available the law that was enacted by Congress clearly states in some places that these funds cannot be used for something that was in the budget already at as of that time. But we're still working through all those those things and obviously if we can get if the federal rules would allow us to use that money to supplant a cost that is necessary institution that's something we're going to look at and at this point we don't know if that's the case correct so we can make a decision today based on something that might be or we can make a decision based on something that seems to be the reality that we face right now as as I see it thank you thank you Mr chair. Representative Lundstrum you're recognized thank you and so I make sure I understand the so. The colleges and universities set up performance funding appropriate provided TV funding and some of them didn't do as well as they should. So they're they're plan. That some didn't do quite as well. They've known this is coming they've known that budget company cut cut is coming and now we've got to different situations they've had a budget cut due to covet and some of them had a budget cut due to failing to reach their own standards. It's two different issues. So they made their bed now have to line. The. I'm just confused a little bit of what we don't need to bail them out on that issue maybe maybe they need a little help on the other issues but I don't know why we're helping that I'm I'm just confused. And am I what am I missing well I thank the in my mind I think that what was the the purpose of productivity is to reward correct in in in FY twenty we did not reward anyone because those those additional rewards work cut out of the budget okay and so the thinking as well for not going to do that then we should also hold harmless those who would have been punished okay what I do think we are ever wore those that have worked to make those changes I'm concerned about art Tech in junior colleges that issue that and Senator Davis product was with which it may concern I don't think we can address all that today this is a really big thing to unpack right now so thank you for your indulgence. Senator Malick you're recognized. Thank you Mr chair of richly I understand the financial constraints that were under understand also those that were making whole they had gotten hit by the performance productivity funding in they get hit again because the the cut back the thing that I have struggled with is we've we've completely done our policy of. Of rewarding those that do good and and and and and not those that do not now here's my question to make certain that those that would have received additional funds under the productively performance funding does that roll into their base for the next year where at least they get some long term benefit for having done well yes Sir. And and to the extent that you have discretion over any of the federal funds and I know the language is there that you can't review replaced you know the the budget shortfalls also mobile that from dealing with the paycheck protection program this past week to the rules change every day of but that we would give some consideration to helping those universities that thought they were going to get additional funding under performance based funding if we have the flexibility to do that was some of the federal money. I I agree are thank you. Senator Hendren you're recognized at thank you Mr chairman thank surmount kind of cover the point that was being missed was uh there is a benefit to those that when by virtue of the fact that that increases being rolled into their base eighty five percent of which is being funded in category a in the next fiscal year and the other point I think it's important for us to remember we say that the colleges came up with this we passed it the general legislature the General Assembly passed this this legislation with the provision with this provision that is causing the problem that if there's a two percent not a two percent increase that the entire thing would basically be delayed two year. And what we're doing is rather than implementing that because what we would do if we did that is the losers get punished the winners don't win we said we're going to try to not to fully implement that and allow those that went to have it built into their base and allow those that we're going to get hit with a five percent in category D. also have a provision to make that up it it's really again the alternative would be if we did not implemented at all not only would we not be spending this for five million dollars one time money we will be pulling back five million dollars it's going into the winners right correct. Thank you. No other questions do we have a motion to approve the transfer the restricted with emotional got a question. Bill you're recognized up you know I fully recognize the importance of higher education but also recognize that small business is the heart and soul of this of this state and the country and without small business there would be no market so having said that Mister chairman I would like to ask for a roll call. On this on this vote. We have three hands. We got it all right we get maybe another question. Who's in state. Sixty four. You're recognized I would is also ask for a division of the vote. Okay with three and on that. All right. Representative house you're recognized for a question. I'm sorry did the last statement made keyed something the money that is distributed by the federal government's going to be based on a full time student equivalence is that correct. You know I'm not familiar with how the cares ACT issue this funding funds the commissioner of education Johnnie Keyes outside I think we can probably get that to you maybe later thank you very much you want to you will Mr Kagan man. No Sir okay. Red docking. Thank you Mr chair this is probably. Possibly question for staff maybe Mr bleed but this is on item be to correct correct so how is this house is going to change things and who are passed be one well we've already passed approximately two point four million this that in our next year yeah this being of the two point four million they've come from the restricted reserve the rainy day fund this is not adopted your put your pot is roughly two point four million I I guess the question is or what I'm getting at is the eight hundred and seventy one. Thousand that we we approved in the one that's going to go straight to the base for. Starting next year you get that's automatic since we approved be one. The other half of it. Which is in B. two won't go to their base how's that going to work if this doesn't get approved yes so the the base funding would be something we have to look at when we put together the RSA for FY twenty two. and how how do we want to roll forward something that we're making home on this process but if your question is. I eight did I answer your question is that yes I think so but I guess it's half of the increase in the base correct so their base would only go up by half if they'd been cut by productivity correct so that their base I guess from a from a standpoint of what to what money do they have in the bank operate on they have half of that reduction provided to them up front. But there are allocation for the year would be ultimately reduce by the other half. Okay I think that's right I think I understand that thank you. Alright members secretary keys out there would anybody will like to ask him a question okay we got a member of bring insect shaky. Mickey if you identify yourself a good question for you. Johnny Kidd part of education. Entering with you're recognized thank you of commissioner key. The secretary key sorry chip before your set now right I see in. Okay what we've been in here talking about the federal dollars that are coming in and that there were some dollars released yesterday from through the department of education for higher ed and FOR K. through twelve and all that I have been and everybody has hearing you have a copy of it is this thing on on the the colleges who are getting dollars. And how many dollars they're getting and what the stipulation is for those dollars right there's two columns which don't seem to appear on this is paper here but there were two columns in that in that thing and one of them it looked like was to help students specifically addressing student needs of fiscal of financial needs I'm not sure what the other. The call was to act to help the university I think that's the question we're kind of. Trying to figure out here is how would some of these federal dollars coming into the state help K. through twelve and and the question right now is higher read. So this distribution center is at least half at least half has to go directly to students can you tell us what that looks like what does that mean so the two columns you see one is the is the aggregate total for each institution and then the other is half of that so that they know exactly what the minimum is it has to go back to students so of it it in the the guidance for that is been. It's very yes that's a good way to the same so yeah it's based on the allocations are bay significantly on think question was about if the ease but. It's also connected to how many pill recipients their their the so. I think the intent of Congress understand correctly is knowing that they were institutions and student said had pretty immediate financial impacts from this That yeah they wanted to get this money out early so as to mitigate any ill effect it would have on the students and whatever costs at the institutions had in responding to. Closure or transferring a transitioning to online delivery of because we saw a lot of mixture of how they did that in timing too there was some institutions didn't move as quickly as others so it's hard to really put a hard fast The application to how that all goes out that to this this is the first part of money that we've actually seen and this didn't come to the department this or to the state actually directly out to the institutions. So but but basically and then so there are there are other dollars that have come my I just saw something yesterday I got an email I think I sent to you. For like thirty million dollars for the K. through twelve and and and had different things and then there was much of the money for higher education but I never could figure out what it was you could actually spend it on so yesterday the other news that came out yesterday was the release of the funds under the governor's emergency education relief so those are funds that each state's governor will have discretion over in and it will be it can be split between higher ed and K. twelve but the the general guidance has been so far are distributed to where the greatest need is the greatest impact from the code of nineteen crisis so that's again very archy general and so we we just got that there's an application that the governor's office has to submit that we just got that late yesterday so we don't have all the details we don't understand all the details yet but we're working through it I guess the question about thirty two over thirty may I think by thirty million under some fire red too but I don't know what that was but I think the question here is is there somebody federal dollars out here or there funds that federal funds coming in that higher education could use to pick up some of the loss that they're taking or. So just the standard with federal funds is that it does not and it cannot supplant state funds we are operating under the assumption that that will be the case here we've not heard otherwise so until we hear differently will we really can't say that that these federal funds can be used to replace the of any cuts it came about because the reduction in forecast. Thank you I think it would be helpful for us I know what's right you all done to do wonderful job I have to commend you all educators across the state I know but it really would be helpful to us somehow if maybe as you got some guidance or you have some idea that we could be part of that communication it would help us a whole lot Khan figure out what's going on because there is a lot of stuff happening and I think many of us feel like we don't we don't know what's going on. And we're trying to be careful to end with we're happy to do that we're trying to be careful to that we get the right information hi as of last week we were under the impression that a lot of this money would have to be spent before December of twenty and or by the basically by the end of this year for additional information we got today now shows that that's not necessarily the case so it's it's it's the the bouncing ball keeps bouncing so as soon as we kinda locked down what they're saying that which hopefully by next Thursday according to call that I received from the department of education yesterday that guided should be out but I know it doesn't help us right now because you are trying to get it passed. Thank you very much yes ma'am. Review to house you're recognized. Thank you Mr chairman thank you Mr secretary for coming by I had a question earlier Mr believe me said perhaps you knew the answer to it. The US government funds higher education institutions based on full time student equivalence yes that is my understanding correct generally yes okay and we are basing our budgeting decisions based on historical data hi he what they got last year and productivity's so we've got two different standards bopping against each other. In our funding formulas don't worry is that create fusion for you. Well the it has the potential to an and like I said until we get the clear guidance I they're allocations of that. Yes Congress allocated the funds and then the department allocates based on the number as I said the F. T. E.'s but there's also a a component there where they look at pale eligible and so it's not necessarily appear F. T. E. calculation because we have a lot of students that are pale eligible but the the federal support is typically connected to that hello eligibility and so yeah it does because those are two totally different mechanisms for calculating how much help funding is distributed so I don't think you can look at a dollar for dollar replacement because it's it's they're all calculated on different bases follow up please it is a little bit. Changing gears Senator Elliot asked real good question earlier about the conditions that come with the grants from the federal government to and you mentioned it if you off if you've already budgeted and funded a I need with state funds generally you can't use federal money to replace that so I guess my question is kind of fundamental. Should we just hold off on this money and see what the federal government's gonna do because if we find the need with this money that it automatically becomes ineligible for the federal money. Are you referring to the distributions of. Related productivity. Well we're looking at money coming out of A restricted reserve and governors rainy day fund. And once that moneys out of there and committed. And I would I would we cut herself off and I think it was senator Elliott question yeah I would I would caution against that I I think we have to look at it and to call the very distinct groupings and and the grouping for the productivity that you already in with here to be looked at differently then the possibility of because I think a case could be made for the four point two percent reduction of category a. We know that was a direct impact economic impact from the covert nineteen crisis so I think you set that here that would be a potential for back filling but right now we don't know that. The we're up working under the assumption that that will not be allowed. I think for the pro purposes of productivity I think we have to look at it just from what our policy says and our statute or statute says that in any fiscal year in which you have a to percent reduction or greater than two percent reduction in net available funding Ford institutions then you do you suspend productivity for that fiscal year in this case. That suspension came out toward the end of the fiscal year so what these letters to simply try to unwind productivity so I I to me that's not connected in any way to any back filling of of of funding using the federal funds that come and that that's my opinion on how we would look at. Thank you Mr chairman. Senator Davis you're recognized. Yes thank you at I just like clarification on and something center Hendren said when he said that productivity increase will be in column a I'm really asking for clarification I it's my understanding when I did the math that their productivity for schools that performed well is built into their base but eighty five percent of their current based funding is in column a and when you look at Collins the CND it's five percent of the cut we made plus a third of their productivity funding so what I see is that their productivity eighty five percent of it is not in column may I see that. All of their productivity is spread out across columns B. C. and D. along with their cuts and that they'll get back hopefully the five percent cut spread out over three columns and and I just want clarification on that because I think we are disagreeing and my matches one thing and is not maybe shown another and so I just would like to have some clarity for members on if it's actually Colin a or not well this this present year that we're in now most of the productivity was in column the. We never see your day we had just that will be a little bit of the but but but most the productivity for the schools was in B. and when they got cut the productivity got could yes but in next year fiscal year twenty one. The mass I did shows that in Collins BCD they'll get that fifteen percent back plus their productivity that none of it is in call an eight that's what my matches is that correction Lee is that is correct and I think you I think you were saying the same thing the senator Hendren was saying you know in the past like Representative Jean said the increases were always in category B. for twenty one what we did was we put those increases into the base so there in the original now and then we apply the RSA with the eighty five and then the five five and five the benefit to the schools get who do get increases is that that that five percent amount is further out so that there I guess a little more insulated the amounts that they're getting cut in that category D. or those improvements are those increases that they received from productivity so more of their base alternately will be funded under the current forecast. Thank you. Thank you senator Clark you're recognized. Thank you Mr chair. Commissioner. I have some heartburn about the funding formula to start with I'm not sure ever completely understood it but it did seem like it. Analyze programs like welding. Of and it penalized or to your schools. That being said. It appears to me that we could be headed for a period of higher unemployment. Of which means we need more career training and it looks like that that's what we of the executive branch and that we have focused on is that this just like we have said this would be as all we have to make cuts would be a bad time to cut medicine looks like it would be a bad time to cut career training any more than what was already going to be cut under the funding formula does that make sense. Yes. Thank you. Senator Elliot you're recognized. Thank you Mr chair The. Secretary key when a part of the the funds go to students what does that look like to a debate somebody send them a check of or is somebody pay somebody's bill what is that needs. That's a good question I I I I don't know that I have a good answer for you I think rebates or credits to student accounts are are some of the ways that at least that I've read anecdotally I that institutions are using I have not seen or nor have his or been a policy issued from. The division of our at on how that should work those that it's I'm sorry did you mean our division of our read are you are division our division so in essence so the money what this the states do then get to determine how what that looks like when it goes to students not not in this case no there is the do it's. It's from the federal government to the institutions and then at least half of that out to the students okay but what at what what I guess I want to be clear about half is going to the students we don't know yet how it gets to the students that's what has to be worked out or is that worked out of. I don't think there's a role that the state plays at I believe that is to the institutions determining how best to get it to their students because there's going to be a very wide range of how that what the needs are that can happen have that needs to happen your student populations are going to be different some so I really don't have a good answer of of something we can probably get from high read division of higher ed I can ask for that if they if they have information at this point on how the institutions are planning on December the district as I know several people and students a hearing that and in they don't know what it means I think we're getting help but we don't know what it looks like and I don't have an answer for them either and this is not a question for for secretary key I just Mr chair I think this this kind of a discussion to have right now kind of lazy there are something that we probably in the future need to take more seriously because we topped in output so very very important. But when it comes to high read of both two year colleges and four year colleges and even above that I think we have not been as serious as we need to be about our inputs outputs are easy to talk about output so easy to or to criticize or praise. But part of I think what this tells us is we need to maybe do a better job of looking at a scan what does higher read need and make inputs match that because I remember this funding formula put to being put together and that is it not exactly the way it worked. And on the back and you know we we act as if we had the put in the attic but inputs and then secondly we would pay attention to over the years how much we have died vested in higher read people sometimes think it's the opposite but those are really important factors I think this should give us fair warning to take more seriously in the future thank you Mr chair senator doctor Markham has texted me and and said yes that they are cutting checks or issuing credits okay to students sorrows of the to the to matters in which is to two methods that they're using to get the money back to the states okay thank you very much yes. Member what's been passed out half the columns were cut off on the first pass out so you've got a a full update of what to anticipated for our universities to get. Represent Dotson you're recognized. Thank you Mr chair and my question goes to what what was passed on what is being passed out I guess which is two columns Hey do we have any idea exactly how those funds are being allocated I mean what the split is because it says in here some of it is going to the institutions for I guess their use in certain criteria. And then some of it's going to be direct payments to students like we've been talking about. Now that I see that there's two columns on here is their separate is that the separation or. Do we have any idea. A one column is the total amount the other column just reflects the. The half that goes to strictly students so half of it goes direct at least half and then the other half could be used for the as I'm. I guess. The reason it's relevant at least in my mind for this particular discussion is the release of productivity funds that we are we are considering here in this item be to if you look up toward the top of the list like. A you Fort Smith nineteen thousand dollars we would be authorizing in in in this immediately and then another almost ten thousand dollars released. July According to this funding in column one. there at like five and a half million dollars. Is there total allocation have half of acts going to the institution that be. Two point seven five I guess What. Of that two point seven five million can they use that to fill in that gap without us authorizing. This productivity funding offset. The asking me on that represented says whoever might know the answer to the question which well I mean I think when we buy we vote on releasing this product funding I think it's a valid question that know the answer to is if they can use it to fill in their holes then do we actually need to fill in the hole. and the I I guess my response these similar to have responded represent of house I I think we need to look at these totally differently that if you look at this list this is a list of all pale eligible institutions private public career. Professional careers schools me there there are a number of things here that represent costs that could have been in encountered that were over above anything we would have anticipated I know many institutions are have have adjusted and went either to digital delivery online delivery or had to take extra precautions if they could not do that for instance very difficult and we've been getting feedback from students in nursing programs very difficult for nursing programs are welding programs or electricians or plumbing programs to be distant so they had to take extra precautions to be able to continue the that delivery in. In an emergency and and health conscious situation so I think. What the letter you already in with today right now those two letters deal with the state policy as it relates to how we say we are going to do productivity. And only looking at it from terms of the the effect of the budget reductions from the forecast and then how that triggers of the stop loss four for these institutions that that you know that to stop loss of two percent that's built in to the productivity formula statute. So I would see these is totally two distinct issues the. These letters today need to be dealt with and then the weather. federal funds that come to be used FOR back filling other state general revenue that's a decision that we would have to be looked at separately then the productivity issue thank you. Senator DISMANG you're recognized. Thank you Mr chairman. So what I'm trying to figure out is what the consequence of whatever I mean if we pass the rainy day which is already passed we don't pace pass restricted reserve in the confusion for me is the fact this coming out of two separate pots. And how it flows so as of right now. We have passed. The only thing we passed so far is a release of eight hundred seventy one thousand for July fifteenth. And a. One point five seven. Million dollar release for June thirtieth twenty twenty one those were the only two things of the past. So the second part is what we're debating now is the money released in may of one point six seven and then another eight hundred seven one thousand match they seventy one from rainy day on July fifteenth two thousand twenty. What we I guess what I was confused about mostly is is what is the release in may for. I mean there was a budget revision argument over the forecast revision. Moneys were released I'm just confused of why we would release and makes up that we were dealing with fixing the issue an RSA. And that would be prior to so we're actually fishing issue in past years RSA and I've never followed I've never followed that part of the release Mr bleed. The intent is to hold those institutions who lost money as a result of productivity harmless in recognition of. The lack of the are an ability to reward the winners so again I think the decision was made let's go ahead and say that productivity in effect did not occur in FY twenty so that's an amount of money which we would then provided those institutions to offset the losses from productivity. Offset the losses for productivity for the current fiscal year that we're in. Yes Sir okay in it and we were really really doing that because of the change in forecast right if there was no change in forecasts then. Productivity would plug along in those losses would be recognized is that right yes the increases would be rewarded in category B. and the category allocations would remain as they were with the losses and to. Okay. Okay so what is the consequence then for not passing the restricted reserve. I mean I mean obviously to one point six seven million dollar consequence but they're already going to get being because the change in forecasts all this is I mean if we do nothing then. It's just one point seventeen this is how it outlines right here right. And then the other eight hundred seventy one thousand that would be released on July fifteenth it's related to the actual current year ours the RSA that will be considering you're saying. Only take a stab at it Senator so for FY twenty of the losses from productivity four baked into the FY twenty budget. We got to the revenue forecast revision and that changed the calculus right it he. Because there is a stop loss in productivity that if the net funding available for hire and it's to higher education institutions is More than is less. The the losses left is greater than two percent so we had a four percent loss so that that kicked in that provision of the stop loss It was a perspective really was retrospective we're trying to unwind to that now of what was baked into their FY twenty budget so that's what the the distribution in may would do the distribution the next distribution would on wind it as it relates to their base. Is is it's already baked into their base now twice the and I get that okay are okay all right so the FY twenty is just to unwind of of what was baked into their FY twenty RSA distribution. Okay. Because that would have been looked at in category a you know that reduction would have been the base level and Hey the the winners we're going to get it in B. and when that went away. Then you know we we're we're trying to to. We're trying to zero out the winners and the losers of productivity to basically say productivity did not exist in FY twenty okay. Me it in it for me personally I mean I see the value in dealing with this current year our sakes that's what we're considering I mean I maybe it's just the fact I mean out of the statements to back to recall million two different sets of funds to try to bridge. One issue well actually there's two so we're fixing something that happened in this current fiscal year and the next and so the reason to funds to fix to different situations and so that multiplies out and what we see right here which is a it is fairly complicated because we're actually here the member to sound like there was more than one discussion. You know there is question that was wanting to be had on next year's are say in a discussion on what we need to do for current and it's all it's all together makes more complicated. Thank you senator suffering with you're recognized. Thank you okay I think up I'll hopefully didn't confuse everybody here but actually as we were talking about all the federal dollars that are coming in. It's important to see that there are so many different kinds of things that may or may not address all the issues that we have with higher ed but one of the things you see about this is is as state Terry Keith said the money goes directly to the colleges we don't have or the trade schools or whatever the case may be and so that they can help those students that are facing financial problems and that's what the the goal is of all this that they have I don't know how they use the other half but there are going to be millions of dollars of federal dollars coming in whether we can use them for what we want to do or not is at is a state remains to be seen. Walker last question is senator Hendren you're recognized. Thank you Mr chairman and and I appreciate the discussion on this and I was one of one to know that not knows me I haven't been down here for a long time banging the drum to get much more money for higher it will who we are truly unprecedented times and I think we're all have to do some things that we may not necessarily be comfortable with talking with at least some of the members on our side I think one of the things that would add to some of the comfort or perhaps relieve some of the discomfort that some have says when you see all these federal dollars coming to the state. unprecedented amount one point two billion we know to be spent between now and the end of the year there some concern about giving up what little razor reserve funds we have in front of that and what's the members on our side and I and this takes some degree of trust and I will tell you you know he's senator bond is going to be speaking to is amendment that he was gonna present earlier about why he is withdrawing that is because of a very similar discussion which is the promise of these federal dollars an expectation that it is going to be used to alleviate some of these concerns A gives us I think some confidence that it may not be necessary so I guess what I would ask for for the administration's position to say that if it is possible to supplement some of these. Particularly the restricted reserve which in going to be released until later funds with federal dollars will you commit you will do that or even amended governor's letter if we do find that we can supplement some of these dollars with federal dollars. So I I yes I think that is before the release comes out and may or the release comes out in July or than the released the third release comes out if it turns out that we have federal dollars they can move in there that can be used in much the same way that these dollars would be used that's something will absolutely look at and if we need to make revised request to this body will do so thank. Okay who's missing thirty one. If the bill you're recognized as a final this final one. We'll let somebody else light to. All want to say is just. Being a poorly written piece of legislation does not release us from the the responsibility to correct it by holding these these purse strings so I. following site not moved for immediate consideration were there. All right members of we were in a motion and a second we've asked the Senate floor bill. To roll call it senator Ballenger ask for division of the house so we're gonna start on the Senate in on a roll call. If you senators would be so proactive this would happen to your time. Thank you Mr chairman. Senator Teague. That is a yes senator flowers. Yes Senator Clark. yes. Senator Malick. Yes Senator Stubblefield. No senator Cheatham. Yes. Senator Caldwell. The. Not seeing center call well first alternate Senator Wallace. Senator Ingram. Senator Cooper. Senator Flippo. Yes yes for Cooper yes for Flippo Senator Blake Johnson. That is a yes. Senator Elliott. Yes senator Chesterfield. Yes yes. Senator DISMANG. Yes senator English. Yes senator bond. Yes Senator mark Johnson. No senator Hendren. Yes senator Hester. Yes senator eads. Yes Senator Breanne Davis. No senator Ballenger. No senator leading. Yes senator Bledsoe. Yes Senator sample. Yes Senator Rapert. Senator Hickey. Yes. Okay members a password sixteen in its is. Twenty one yes is overall proxy it's it's three fifths of the ones that are present. This is a this is a three fifths vote house call the house. Representative shepherd. Represent Holcomb. Yes for shepherd yes for Holcomb Representative Eubanks. Yes represent Kenneth Ferguson. Yes Representative Richmond. Yes Representative Monte Hodges. Yes Representative Ladyman. Yes Representative Tosh. Yes Representative Jett. Yes Representative gray. I sing Representative gray represent Gazaway. I'm here second alternate Representative marsh Davis. Under represent Cavenaugh. Yes represented Meeks. Yes Representative Beck. Representative house. Yes represent McGee. Proxy. Rocky. All right yes. seventy Davis. Yes Representative eaves. Yes represent a column. Yes Representative Lundstrum. No representa LA Rosa. Yes represent grant Hodges. Proxy proxy. Representative Boyd. Yes represent Coleman. Yes represent Wardlaw. Yes represent Dotson. Yes represent Womack. Representative capp. Here. Okay with twenty one vote on the house side is passing the transfer is adopted. Alright members were god or one of. This contract we have the review mistranslated right quick yes Sir that is item C. this is a a review required for this contract with the H. if you services in right of passage. Any questions without objection will review this will go to Adam D. claims Mister Anderson. Thank you Mr chairman item D. in your packet this is an amendment for the Senate bill fifty nine this is for the payment of approved claims this is for their claim payments on the report that was adopted on Friday saying. Any questions. I have a motion to approve the claims. The amendment. And a second. Any discussion all in favor say aye. The elbows racer Senate bill fifty nine is ready we need to do pass as amended would we have one we have one and a second any discussion all in favor say aye any opposed. Transaction we're going to the. I to me revenue stabilization. Yes Sir hit the highlights okay hi to me. We have a schedule for you I to me item eighty one is the amendment for the house or S. A. version easy to is the amendment for the Senate are say version those are denticle amendments because they're duplicate bills. We need to suspend the rules about two thirds take deceptive motion spin the rules and a second any discussion all in favor say aye any opposed. And that's that's to take up both of more than two. All right any questions on the RSA on the amendment. I have a motion to adopt and a second any discussion all in favor say aye any A both. I'll have it ms chairman so amendment to house bill ten ninety six is adopted that bill is ready Mr chairman all right. I have a motion and a second. Any discussion all in favor say aye opposed. We'll go to Senate bill. Eighty three. Yes Sir I to me to is an amendment percent ability three need emotionally amendment. I have a motion and a second any discussion. All in favor say aye. Any oppose all right we need a motion DO pass is amendment on Senate bill eighty three have a motion and a second any discussion all in favor say aye opposed. Mister bond. You are recognized for items three and four fuel. Stay in the chair A go. You're recognized. Thank you Mr chairman center Hendren sort of references earlier after the RSA amendment was finalized and put out there were DYS there had been discussions and continue to be discussions to have an amendment for you a a mass. as those discussions about a U. M. S. amendment occur there were contacts made from the governor's office and executive branch to you and mass and to some legislators and it was just determine that there will be additional opportunities to support you I am asking to make sure that they're able to continue with their incredible work not only with because of it nineteen but also with the education of our medical students and other medical professionals. I just want to work on passes over and withdraw it but I want to make clear and I think some other legislators may want to comment that the that the legislature funds of medical school and other programs that you AM mass we don't find the clinical in hospital side of the facility and in the past many of you live through this more than I did with doctor Ron and others I tried to ramp up the clinical side to support shortages and flattening of state funding for the medical school and training programs. And so it's incredibly important sort of the there's a lot of trust being put forward by you and mass and that the legislature and all of us including the executive branch or committed to finding them in a way that lets them continue being on the front lines of the code nine feet teen fight and listen continue being a world class leader in educating most of our doctors and met and a lot of the other medical professionals in the state so we would draw with the idea that we tested everyone will be committed to funding UAMS with some of these additional opportunities that everyone believes we will have over the next few months and I'm hoping some other folks of John Mann and just say that a boy. Not to me to be a massive. You got. At a boys line into center hundred. Thank you Mr chairman and senator bond in the other sponsors the amendment I appreciate them for for working with this in reaching out on this and and again those of you who know me know if there's one thing I'm passionate about also it is getting help to those that are sacrificing for us with that be our troops out on in the Middle East and in this case it be our doctors and healthcare workers on the front front lines and so I do that I I've I've expressed that commitment to senator bond into a campaign or send and I know the governor has as well that is we go through the evaluation of where our dollars go over the next period of weeks and months we need to take care of those who are taking care of us I I did agree that are as a was probably not the appropriate place to do that because of our entire if we as we've heard our entire economy is in shambles and everybody's being asked to make some sacrifices but fortunately there are going to be as we know unprecedented resources brought to our state and it's going to be this body that decides in many ways where those go and and I do commit and I hope that all of this will that we're going to make sure that we make taking care of are healthcare workers at UAMS and other institutions of priority and I appreciate their willingness to put that confidence that will do that. Senator when you're recognized. Thank you Mr chair I would also like to make comment on this you know you I am mass as been on the front lines of this and I think it's really important to note I'd appreciate the work that senator bond and others have worked on this but that you A masses. You A masses on the front lines with this but with their standing shoulder to shoulder with every health care worker in the state with every hospital system and they will be the first person to tell you you I am mass and doctor Patterson would be the first person to tell you that rural hospitals critical access hospitals small hospitals midsize hospitals and large hospital systems are absolutely an essential part of their mission to and so they understand that and realize that all of those hospitals across the state and all of those healthcare workers are and bearing the cost of this by not doing elective procedures by following the governor's directives and so I think doctor Patterson is committed to not just that institution but the healthcare infrastructure for the entire state and so I think he knows at us going forward we have to recognize that that's a leadership role that that they have stepped into and they understand they can't not do it without all those other hospitals across the state and all those healthcare workers I also just want to say that their leadership provided a huge amount of PP our regional coordinator called me this morning and a semi truck is on the way to deliver thirteen pallets and I want you all to know that the federal surplus was ridiculous as far as the amount of PP it was hardly nothing so the state of Arkansas Anders governor Hutchinson and doctor camp Patterson and you a mess are the ones that jumped jump to action and that that needs that has been so desperately needed out there and so that's being delivered today to all those regional coordinators for the health care coalitions that will be distributed to all the hospitals so I my commitment is there and I just wanted to make those comments and appreciate the work on that and there will be a strong commitment to make sure our health care in. FOR structure across the entire state I will be in in place and ready to go. Elliott. Thank you Mr Mr chair and my comment definitely follows on a senator bonds and work working on this issue it at a boy to everybody involved here. But I guess the major thing I want us to think about is not just the here and now it is obvious what UAMS means to us right now but I think about for example what senator Irvin said about the infrastructure through out the state is poor so much of my concern is because you and this has proved itself you know for working with this issue but I think as we look ahead it would be a good idea to recognize that something like this could likely occur again even if it does not we are at a dearth of having the infrastructure that we needed our rural areas and how do we feel that we we have the best opportunity to fill that with you AM mass so I would ask us to begin to think about you AM mass the way we think about our public schools and a lot of ways because sometimes I think we that bypasses us it is the public institution that prepares doctors in this state and I know we have an osteopathic couple schools now. But for years they've been having a difficult time getting the funding to prepare the infrastructure when it comes the personnel that we need across the state and we can hardly get doctors from other parts of the of the country especially come to a rule areas but that's that's sent mini that's a vacancy UAMS can help us feel so just less I trust the process that we are about to enter into an agree with it. That going forward it we are going to get doctors they're going to come from UAMS it's a public school and we need to remember to find it that way because every time of building goes up at UAMS I hear comments about their having all this money they don't that's private money almost every single one of them so I just want us to be you know think more about our role in this and finding our public institutions so that they can grow the personnel that we need thank you Mr chair. Thank you senator senator bond you will we want a final word on this notion I I just want to say because I forgot the UAMS it has facilities all over the state and keep in mind there taking hits on clinical procedures like all hospitals are understand it's difficult for all hospitals but they're also take a hit on the state funding side that's why it's so important that we. Continue to look at all of the funding available for them then I want to say thank you to all the members of the legislature who who support UAMS and you're a mess has facilities across the street across the state but particularly want to say thank you to someone who's not here who Senator Teague who's long been a advocate for you a a mass and its programs all over the state thank you senator Teague if you're watching. And members at the at I want to thank you the members for the work they've done over the last two weeks under the circumstances we pay AD of appreciate the due diligence and and the the swiftness that we had to work under of this will be our last meeting unless something comes up unforeseen senator you Irvin you get some you will say I just want to let us all appreciate our staff an incredible job they've done absolute. All right is something that comes up forcing will check your emails will have a call from the chair's but otherwise we or adjourn.