Education Committee Senate & House
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Representative Bruce Cozart
Unverified
0:10
as joint committee we're going to vote together as joint committee are you ready
Speaker 7
0:17
for the roll call all right representative stephen meeks yes representative gary deffenbaugh yes representative john eubanks representative john eubanks Representative Mark Lowry
Representative Jim Dotson Representative Jana De La Rosa Representative Grant Hodges Representative Rick Beck Representative Dan Sullivan Representative Nelda Speaks Yes. Representative Deanne Vaught. Representative Deanne Vaught. Representative Leanne Burch. Representative Leanne Burch. Representative Fred Allen.
Representative Fred Allen. Representative Francis Cavanaugh. Yes. Representative Denise Garner. Representative Brian Evans. Representative Reginald Murdoch. Representative Reginald Murdoch. Senator Linda Chesterfield Senator Jim Hendren Senator Eddie Cheatham Senator Eddie Cheatham Senator Lance Eads Senator Mark Johnson Senator James
Sturge? Yes. Senator Joyce Elliott? Yes. We have
Representative Bruce Cozart
Unverified
1:56
12 yeses. Seven noes. decision of
the chair is sustained so all right are we ready to move on
Speaker 27
2:13
all right all right is everybody still awake out there
Representative Bruce Cozart
Unverified
2:27
we are ready to move on discussion of the written testimony submitted by various educational advocacy organizations we're ready to do that dr richard abernathy are you still available and if somebody had to leave i do understand so or if you have to leave so if uh
whoever wants to come forward with you or with you we are glad to have you
so sorry represent a liar didn't know i had you still on i pushed over youtube took you off you're off you have you have something you want to talk about now okay
Senator Mark Johnson
Unverified
3:17
sorry go ahead thank you mr chairman um i'm okay whatever we just did
but could you clarify what we did and did we hire no we haven't hired
Representative Bruce Cozart
Unverified
3:29
them we have not hired them the alc will have to approve
Senator Mark Johnson
Unverified
3:32
everything well i know it has to go yeah but from education joint education have we completed the recommendation of hiring the the one we have authorized bureau
Representative Bruce Cozart
Unverified
3:42
legislative research to enter a contract with apa consulting but that will have
to i believe that that part i understand mr chair i just wanted
Senator Mark Johnson
Unverified
3:50
that's that's at the point we are right now that
is the point we are right now so as a this body we are done with that issue
Representative Bruce Cozart
Unverified
4:04
yes sir okay thank you dr abernathy if y'all would introduce yourself you are recognized to present i believe you
Speaker 43
4:14
have a thank you mr chair mr chair members of the committee we appreciate the opportunity to present our testimony to this committee and a rather interesting process to start with but i figure maybe we can share some things that you might like as far as the school business goes so
we did submit our written testimony however we also have a powerpoint that we'd like to visit with and show some good things that are happening around schools i have with me mike mertens deputy director of aaa and he is available to answer all the hard questions representing deaf and ball so that that goes to okay um you know for for everything that that policy makers educators teachers administrators have done arkansas really has done a good job and we've moved the needle the last several years and sometimes i think that we forget about this because we get focused in on
funding or get focused in on the problems or the issues that that are experienced that comes across your desk so anytime we go out and speak we try to highlight some of the good things that are occurring in our schools and i think that's important that for all of us to uh to to be sure and know that there are some good things happening out there a lot of things came from the state level plc's professional learning communities i was in a principal's meeting this morning and one of the principals mentioned that the training he's receiving in this he thought he understood the plc process but he's taken some new tools back to his school and worked
with his staff and and just to talk about student achievement and the issues that are there the rise initiative matter of fact that's just one initiative but there's been several policy changes dealing with reading the right to read the training of teachers in the reading the science of reading all those we think are very positive for the kids in the state of arkansas the rise initiatives come from the department and a lot of training has been taking place for our teachers and and that will be an ongoing process computer coding that's another great initiative policy
initiative by the state brought forth by the governor you know our numbers we'll talk a little more about that as far as the numbers on that but arkansas is being recognized in the computer coding arena broadband expansion you know we a couple years ago we had a significant amount of conversation on broadband in rural Arkansas. And we're seeing that take place in the impact that's had. Educator Compensation Reform Act, the dollars that are going in to try to raise teacher salaries, we think are very important. And that's another state initiative that's been recognized from school administrators and teachers that is a positive state initiative.
And then one of the most, I guess, enjoyable things that I've seen is the renewed interest career and technical education many of us have felt and policy makers have felt that we kind of missed the boat in that a couple of years ago by focusing solely on the four-year higher ed institutions but several things have happened with career and technical when you're looking at facilities expansion on career and technical programs the increase in partnership between school districts community college local government and private industry all around
the state it's occurring there's pockets of excellence all across the state now if you have a program in your area and it's not in this presentation okay don't we didn't highlight everything we just picked out some that that we just wanted to visit with about such as the sheridan kohler academy down there for engineering and advanced manufacturing uh paris we actually had an opportunity to review the program over at paris and that was initiative between the county and the school districts over there where kids are having career and technical opportunities in a facility that was actually donated to the school after it was built by i believe it was the county
bentonville robotics program training center up there an integrated design lab and they also do with the have something to do with visual arts and construction technology in bentonville gentry's industrial maintenance training program with a heavy duty trucking program slain county slain county passed a tax on themselves and they are in the process of building the building out on interstate 30 if you hadn't seen the dirt work and the construction going on out there but there's
going to be probably seven schools where they're going to be able to send their students to that that particular program it's going to have 10 different elements of career and technical programs career focuses on that facility once it gets built blocksburg industrial maintenance institute carroll county career center blivel anc center and applied technologies and all of those are partnerships with private business tyson has stepped up in many areas across the state with especially talking about career or the the maintenance institute industrial maintenance
program so we're having partners all across arkansas step up and help schools because they're looking at workforce our schools are trying to get their kids where they're employable with some good quality jobs out there and so it's been a really good partnership that that couldn't have happened six years ago but through policy decisions that you made the emphasis that departments put on the the new the governor's role in this that's why we're very appreciative of the direction for career and technical programs some other ones the cats program at clarksville
focused on national center for construction a lot of these programs are focused on construction and for arkansas many reasons of the state i think you understand why plassey county schools there's been a lot of work by the four plassey county schools develop career academies out there and i think you're going to see some good work from those schools as they continue down that road implementing forward next generation learning model silo springs had an opportunity to visit that a couple years ago and it's another program that's
kind of an adventure between private business the cross it owl program and that's a job skill training program for students with disabilities so all of these are positive opportunities for our kids genoa central construction technology program lake hamilton food production management services program um center point um before we get lake hamilton uh the interesting thing there that i wanted to just point out was the their catering
group also caters local events around their community for these uh certifications and industry recognized certifications in food management uh center point meat processing they're actually in the planning process of uh developing a smokehouse uh which is rather interesting they're also they have recent charter status and they're going to be the state's first agriculture school again none of this would have been possible if it hadn't been for policy makers decision to give school districts a little more flexibility and so you need a pat on the back
for that ozark principals of banking program um worked up 24 hours of concurrent credit and additional intern opportunities for bank conway advanced nutrition program van buren automation robotics program we can go on and on but i'm hoping you get the picture good things are happening with current technical programs and again that was not possible about six years ago so thank you for those those efforts and those flexibilities concurrent credit in arkansas really has a
model concurrent credit program that students have been able to benefit tremendously my daughter was one of those students you may have a family of yourself that's been able to benefit from concurrent credit programs but concurrent credit and ap had multiple conversation years ago and now they're kind of married together and both of those programs have been official for our students and just a couple of examples greenbriar high school so greenbriar last year's graduates 106 students graduated with at least 24 hours of college credit and 30 walked across the stage
with an associate degree at the same time the high school diploma that's the direction that we need to be working in my opinion 121 hours of concurrent credit offered by greenbrier high school and all but six of those are on campus that's just phenomenal again they're all over the place bryant last year's graduate graduates are in almost 2200 hours of concurrent credit and again there it's concurrent credit programs are all across the state but just something i want to make sure that's on your radar that's a good program for our kids out there
and our parents out there that have kids enrolled in those programs and you're seeing some of the results um the essa scores you know the the latest exit scores index showed an increase in number of a's schools and a decrease in number of f schools we think that's a good thing 557 schools improved their overall essa score which again that's that is a good thing for us so one of the things that that we're particularly proud of on scores is is the
show in growth instead of just a single score you also can show how much your students are growing which has been a big part of ESSA as well as the department initiative to highlight the growth. And I think that came from the department listening to educators and schools out there. So we need credit for moving our kids, and I think that's a big plus. So here's just a couple of schools that jumped two letter grades, which is pretty remarkable. Hamburg, Portland Elementary School, went from a C to an A.
Monticello High School from a D to a B. Lake Village, Eudora Elementary School, went from an F to a C. Jasper, Kingston High School, went from a D to a B. Cabot, Ward Central Elementary School, went from a C to an A. And believe me, those schools and those faculties as well
Speaker 48
14:17
as those parents are proud of those scores jumping like that.
Speaker 43
14:23
If you just look at OEP, highest growth elementary schools, we actually started to put 20 of them on there, and we said, no, let's don't.
so let's look at the top five which see those city heights elementary school in van buren ward central and cabot possible elementary impossible carrying lewis elementary in conway salem elementary in salem and as we started thinking what about free and reduced lunch so let's look at those so out of the the top four possible had 48 percent free and reduced lunch just in case you're wondering and the rest of them are all in the 50s but then you jump down to number five the highest growth elementary school had 67 percent free and reduced number nine oscar
elementary and foreman 71 percent cross county 73 percent des arc elementary 75 so schools even though their poverty may be at higher levels than than a lot of schools out there they're still experiencing growth uh in our student test scores other bright spot 53.16 of arkansas eighth graders achieve at ready or better levels compared to 50 percent nationally we think that's a good mark we'd love all for all of our grade levels to be at that level governor hutchinson recently reported
arkansas ranks 14th in u.s graduation rates he contributed a lot of that to current technical programs we talked about computer coding while ago uh you know that just started since 2014 it hasn't been in place very long and we went from 1100 students to this year we have over nearly 10 000 students enrolled in computer coding courses you may have heard governor hutchinson's talk about his grandson that went to college played for a basketball and didn't really
have a major so talked to his coach and coach asked him what do you like doing what i like playing video games now the governor's grandson wrote in computer science courses so this is really taken off and you're seeing that our businesses recognize that as well DXC expansion in Conway you know they're expanding their job opportunities by 1,200 employees in Conway I know Senator Johnson be very pleased about that but those are good gonna be good high paying jobs that's come to the city of Conway
or the area of Conway anyway so lots and lots of good things and we could we could speak for hours but also know that you wanted some issues that we thought might need to talk about may need some policy work on some research done on so we'll just try to highlight a few of those one of the areas that that continues to have conversation on is is theory versus reality and I'm talking about where that staffing a school that using the matrix as expenditure model
there are such things as this is actually how you practically operate a school but i also see the reports that you get so i understand the theoretical components that you have to deal with and when we go around speaking we tell our superintendents and business managers what you see whatever it is on on the different reports they go and they staff a building etc by standards for accreditation and that's the way that they they work with their particular budgets there is a concern about the the teacher raise what happens in four years on
the funding cliff we think that needs to be looked at very seriously to make sure that we're not going to put our districts out in harm's way and i think when you talk to some of our superintendents and business managers out there they have a very legitimate concern in this area there are also needs that are covered under the matrix when you think about that matrix developed in 2003 it's i mean it is old served a good purpose but it's time to get it updated one way
or the other so dyslexia we're having lots of students with success on dyslexic programs and and they're actually moving the needle for those kids which is a very good thing that wasn't covered in the matrix 2003 school safety was not a large part of the conversation now you can hardly go into school and not have a conversation on student student safety and school safety mental health services if i talk to one more superintendent that tells me that they are having problems with teachers or not teachers with students kicking biting disrupting class and they don't
have the resources or the skill set to deal with it we have to deal with this and i certainly don't have the answer but it's something that we need to look at some research-based models out there to find out what the highest performing schools are doing in these areas and then we need to replicate that or model it somehow but our schools are asking for help with mental health services and behavior results instead enhance student achievement and we're going to talk a little more about that in this presentation so let's talk about one size doesn't fit all this is an
actual school district district number one 434 kids this particular school district has 31 kindergarten students so when you look at the matrix and that matrix is going to fund 0.87 for a principal standards require one principal to be hired and the matrix going to provide for 1.74 kindergarten teachers that that district has to hire two kindergarten teachers by the standards they have to hire the matrix provides 0.74 for media specialists they have to hire one media
specialist so you think about that the district's investing in personnel so where in that matrix are they moving money from to pay for those salaries if they're not being funded for it completely so you think well that's just a little small district we have 39 school districts out there less than 500. and so that's something that that again we need to study we need to look at see how those districts are spending money if there's things that matrix isn't providing before we start looking at turning the matrix in and restricting the matrix so if you move that
on up to another district and this is just a district with 500 kids you can see they're funded for a principal standards require principal funded for two kindergarten teachers this one this imaginary i happen to have 40 kindergarten kids so they're funded for two kindergarten teachers um they're funded for 0.85 media specialist matrix or the standard require one media specialist but the the funding difference between district two and district one district two received 62 000 more just for those kindergarten kids and if you look at their
district overall they received about 455 thousand dollars more than district one and their staffing patterns will be very similar so again the matrix has served a good purpose but one size just doesn't fit all when it comes to operating in school enhanced student achievement used to be nsl if you've been around here longer than that used to be nsla but it's the poverty funds for students so act 1082 was passed in 2019 through this legislative body it came through the piece
of legislation dealing with the supportive students supported kids and the very last part of that act said that the list of approved programs established before the passage of this act by the state board under the subdivision that shall expire on june 30th 2022. so you have to look at all the esa programs that the state board approved so you go back to the law and you look up the law which is 620 2305 and you pull that law up and you can read that but basically says
schools shall spend funds on those programs approved by the department which may be spent but shall include but not limited to and then that law expands the uses of esa dollars to multiple programs so you have a the law of 2019 it says the rules expire the law that's in the book says here's the programs that's going to be approved by the state board so what are we doing with the sa and
i think there's some valid conversations that policy decisions going to have to be made the first one is policy wise what's what will the purpose of these funds be in the future i mean no one can make that decision other than legislative body and you're going to have to make that decision is it strictly for struggling learners or are we going to take an attitude that that rising water floats all boats i mean that's that's going to be a policy decision you're going to make but be sure and know the ramifications of those decisions for example go back to odd
and pike it's 2003 report through research they said every school shall have a powerful effective strategy for struggling students so that's what the research said in in 2003 and then they also said the most powerful strategy is a one-to-one tutoring and then you see the numbers there 100 for low-income students 1.4 for ell also poverty students so has research changed or shifted well the desk audit of 2014 said again the research says one-to-one tutoring by licensed
teachers is the most effective strategy for struggling students um tutoring extended days summer school you see some of the other ones that are based on research that help struggling students so that's all good but it goes back to the original question what are these funds going to be used for in the future what's the purpose of these funds so school safety well that's not really a part of struggling students but it is something that right now schools spend a tremendous amount of money through esa for school safety it's not part of the matrix either on school safety
so we know school safety is important but that's a policy decision you're going to have to make what about instructional facilitators counselors distribution there's been lots of conversation over the years about you know the funding cliffs with the esa dollars and should that be a more smooth distribution of those dollars again it's something you have to look at flexibility and use of those funds you know we would argue that yes schools need flexibility part of it is you know
the schools need flexibility in all of it the schools need flexibility where some of those dollars can be used for teacher salaries those are all decisions you're going to have to make in the future so and one of the biggest question is will this committee through study through the use of research and we certainly think a valid research is absolutely essential on this but will this committee be making the decisions and recommendations on esa or is that something that's going to be left to the legislative session in 2021 we would humbly ask that you consider making
those recommendations through research and through this committee that that's going to be dealing with education here's some additional information about the desk audit 2014 you read all that but at the end of the day it just says that all the recommendations in there are made through research what's the best practices uh what gets the highest results blew that bottom one down there said what have schools done that are dramatically improving student performance over 46 years doubling even doubling student performance during that time frame that's the kind of research you probably
need considering as you're making policy decisions and changes so some of the recommendations back in 2014 and now i would say that this is even dated because that's at least five years old research but one media specialist for 450 students our current matrix provides 0.85 to 500 one principal 450 students currently it's one to 500 uh one teacher uh and 100 elo students and when you quite that out on their report that's about 0.6 of a teacher is what's currently being
funded um full state stone for funding for special education students with severe disabilities so right now there's another issue going on with students or with schools and that's the closure of day treatment programs if you're familiar with it then good if you're not you probably will be before too long because those those kids with disabilities and early early pre-k programs that our day treatment centers used to deal with now they've closed many of them have closed so
school districts haven't picked that up and a lot of that's going through co-ops i know the co-ops are working with the department on that so you'll probably hear more about that in the future one special education aid per 150 is what the research says right now there's none provided in maintenance look what happened five years ago with guidance counselors and you had a robust discussion with guidance counselor and how to better use those guidance counselors to serve kids in this past session five years ago the research said that there were some some issue
with guidance counselors it made some different recommendations on guidance counselors they recognize that as you go down the system grades six through twelve that you probably need more counselors than what you do in the elementary schools now mental health comes in there somewhere you know again that was five years ago my guess is as you go through your study and you look at the research that there's probably going to be something on mental health issues and behavior behavioral science now so don't think everything changes because some things have not they still
recommend full day of kindergarten which is what we do class size and four through 12 that's what we do pe art music is what we do so not everything is going to change through a new study so property taxes is another issue that policy wise you're going to have to deal with and of course we had task force this last session and they made some improvement on property taxes but it's still going to be is that going to be policy wise a decision that we continue
operating property taxes because that's one of the most stable sources of revenue that schools and I would argue the counties and cities have in their budgets. But, you know, we have currently a rather large retailer that's appealing their property taxes here in Pulaski County. And if you equate that on down, that's about $900,000 appeal process. And, of course, the schools, Pulaski County schools, will be taking the bulk of that hit. So that's just one retailer. if that expands what happens to the prop prop the base in the state what
happens to the base in the school most of the schools use property tax money for their their debt service but that could potentially be loss of lots and lots of tax dollars which again is a policy decision but if we're going to lose those tax dollars then is there some way to make those tax dollars up through other revenue sources and again that's that would be something you have say facility funding we need a review of our facilities we've done some really good work with our facilities in the state of Arkansas many of you have
districts in your school in your district who have maybe either built new schools or refurbished schools and so you've been a benefactor of some of the partnership programs but what have we accomplished and more importantly what do we yet need to achieve uh is an issue you know the facilities uh advisory committee uh this past year worked and one of the things they suggested is that we need facility needs lists for the state and i think you will you'll hear that more and more but and you know state don't have so much
money so from a state perspective we need to take a look at making that priority list at the state view as well that recommendation came from that particular committee and one that we think needs to be looked at when you start prioritizing partnership projects around state so wealth index has been changed what's been to benefit of several or schools and I think that's going to kind of level the playing field but still from a state perspective what's going to be the number one priority this one from this a few minutes ago I think maybe have been taken care of but
strongly support an additional unbiased study and you know and I've had several legislators and others mention that you know it may cost the state more money it may from a school's perspective we may not be able to do the same thing we've been doing because it's also going to change some things there for example possible cost savings for the state so if you just think about the amount that
technology has changed our educational system over the last decade and if you're having virtual courses now do those virtual courses cost the same as a student sitting in class with four brick walls and you know probably not you know there are states that that might not fund virtual students as much as they fund students in class uh do we need to push more of that virtual learning again those are all issues that that i think one the research needs to point out uh what's the best way to to
improve student achievement and student engagement engagement and then from policy standpoint you don't fund it the same or not or even make it acceptable um but that pretty much sums it up and i'll be glad to answer your questions or mr mertens be glad to answer any questions on this i have
Representative Bruce Cozart
Unverified
32:47
a few people have questions i have one right up front though did you did you crunch any numbers on what the difference in those um numbers on the one to
400 versus one to 500 no okay i'm just curious
if y'all might have done any number crunching on that so you want
Representative Bruce Cozart
Unverified
33:08
for your research group to do that all right well Well, I will agree that some of the things that I've been hearing from the superintendents about the principals in the small
Speaker 48
33:20
schools, especially having two principals where they're only allowed 1.25 according
Speaker 43
33:24
to the money. The pairs in special education is dramatic. The number that schools have hired, and, of course, you saw the recommendation, 1 to 150.
Speaker 48
33:34
And, of course, that's an issue that they're dealing with every day. Okay. We're going
Speaker 59
33:42
to punch them in here. Representative Sullivan. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Speaker 60
33:45
I'm looking on the slides that talk about the increases in our schools, which is really good. And I know we set out some do A, B, C, D, and when you do A, B, C, D, scores will improve. Have we accounted for that and seen if our projections and the things that we said you would do,
you would see these improvements have we tied those two together yet or been able is there enough time to do
Speaker 43
34:13
that we have not and there's lots of discussion on the A through F grading scale you know some states are kind of steering away from that from a school perspective it's not something that's really thought it does a lot of work I know from policy decision Florida when Jeb Bush was down here saying that's what reformed their education
Speaker 49
34:34
so but as far as the effectiveness of it we really there's no direct connection
Speaker 60
34:41
between right now that we know of between when we said do a b c d and your scores were improved we don't know if that's the cause of the improvement correct that is correct all right thank you thank
Speaker 68
35:02
you mr. chair thank you madam chair very simple
Speaker 69
35:05
question i noticed i'm sorry i missed the first part of your presentation but i was taking care of a little business on the second floor
no it wasn't the governor it was filing for office um
Speaker 71
35:16
you mentioned there were i think you said 31 schools less than five hundred thirty thirty nine thirty nine yes sir so that wasn't listening very good that's not schools that's school districts how
Speaker 75
35:35
many are less than 350 four four how many are in my senate district at least one okay i just are these
Speaker 69
35:43
it's probably a dumb question too but i'm used to that are these four schools really struggling financially i think if you're
Speaker 43
35:51
losing students and you're a small school you're struggling period whether you're you know less than less than 350 less than 500
Speaker 48
35:56
even some larger than that you know and i have a place in
Speaker 75
36:00
my heart for some of these small schools of course the one in my district is kind
Speaker 69
36:05
of an unusual situation but um i don't know if we can make provisions and maybe some of the studies we're going to do but i would like to see some way i mean i know there
are people maybe in this room that want to do away with small schools but that when you do it the town of course town probably already deteriorated anyway but when you do it it destroys
Speaker 43
36:30
the town so so in you know back when i had the discussion right after lakeview and consolidation of course it started 1500 and worked its way down to 350. um depending on your location in the state whether you're a growing region or declining region i guess it's kind of you you we're okay with that bottom line that that is the policy um the the bigger question from my
perspective if you continue closing schools what are you going to do those kids out in those rural areas but um we were one that that took in a rural school parent uh those students had to transport to our district 25 miles away and it's it's very difficult put a kindergarten on a bus for an hour and 15 minutes hour and a half and you know i know you looked at transportation you know that's another issue you have to look at but the more schools close we're still responsible for educating those kids
Speaker 85
37:21
that's correct and i just hope we go through some look at some things we
kind of keep that in the back of
Senator Joyce Elliott
Unverified
37:42
our mind yes thank you Thank you, Madam Chair. Thanks for that report. It was very informative and prescient when I saw your last slide up there. But I'm wondering about from the administrator's perspective and what you're seeing in the schools, how are we doing with the RISE training
or if there are any issues that we need to be aware of? I'd like to hear about that because I think that's going to be so central to our
Speaker 48
38:09
continuing to improve. I'll speak, and I'm going to let Mike follow that up. But, you know, the conversation
Speaker 43
38:17
I've had, the training is outstanding. Some schools have been a little concerned about getting enough people trained quick enough. And so I know the department's worked through co-ops, and I think they're training at a much higher rate now than what they previously were.
Speaker 48
38:32
So I think the training's good. I think the direction it's going's good. It was just a concern about the
Speaker 94
38:41
lack of opportunities for training. Well, the only thing I would add to that is, you know, every year we have new teachers that are hired. So it's, you know, it's a never-ending process to make sure that you finish training up for teachers you have, but you start, you know, with young teachers also. And administrators are
Senator Joyce Elliott
Unverified
38:58
the same. Yeah, and that's, I can see, well, that's a continuing issue because I know, for example,
some of our colleges of education have really gotten with it and are doing a good job in preparing teachers coming out of college and some of them are still insistent on teaching the same reading the way they, well at least one I can think of right now and I'm just wondering from your perspective what are administrators seeing on the ground as far as teachers that are graduating from our colleges right now more prepared to teach according to the science of reading although I know they don't all have
to be there at this point some
Speaker 43
39:42
that's probably a little early to be talking about because I'm not sure how many teachers are actually graduating with the science of reading skills than what we're asking them I know we're at a leadership coordinating council meeting not too long ago and that's one of the focus of program approval to making sure that we're not having to go back and retrain and so the reading initiative the science of reading I know
Speaker 105
40:04
will be a part of that discussion and one that we think will be very valid
Senator Joyce Elliott
Unverified
40:08
I really appreciate your support for that and the continued support and that leadership of getting that done because it is just so central to everything we're going to be able to do and I ask for continued support. We just can't get it
Senator Linda Chesterfield
Unverified
40:30
fast enough Right, thank you Thank you, Madam
Chair, and thank you, Dr. Abernathy, for that excellent report. What I'd like are two things. Well, first, I would like to see if you can prepare for me a list of the growth that are in the schools that are school districts that are under state control.
Earl, Lee County, Pine Bluff, Little Rock School District. you happily pointed out and I was glad to hear about places like Hamburg and that sort of thing as to how much growth had taken place but if not you then the State Department of Education but I would certainly like to see the growth from the previous year under ESSA to today. The other thing is I am concerned about what I perceive to be the lack of coordination between pre-k and kindergarten and I know pre-k is not a part
of adequacy but having observed a number of these young people in pre-k who have substantial mental health issues we're talking about three and four years of age with substantial mental health issues what are we doing to have some connection between that
and should that in your opinion be a part of the adequacy study well yes it is a
Speaker 43
41:55
problem whether or not policy wise you
want to make that part of adequacy i mean that that's up to the legislative body it is certainly something that there needs to be a bridge between the pre-k programs and in kindergarten programs make sure those kids are being assessed and their needs are being met my concern right now is the closure of the day treatment centers uh in those pre-k kids that have been receiving treatment out there now some of those are not being treated and so when they get to kindergarten um they have another year of no services and it's going to make it kindergarten life much more difficult so
i know i know they're working with the department trying to come up with some numbers for consideration for the legislative body um but we our schools and our co-op that's something that needs to be studied and addressed I appreciate that very
Senator Linda Chesterfield
Unverified
42:48
much it was a great concern of mine and one of the greatest issues to me in that whole conversation was the transportation the transportation for pre-k the transportation for those kids who need those mental health services what are we doing to make sure that in those communities where there is little transportation that those kids who need
Speaker 98
43:07
those services get it would you agree I don't know
Speaker 43
43:14
if there's a good answer on transportation issue um and years ago back when um back on the school business superintendent you know transporting pre-k kids that that ran into its own set of rules for bus requirements transportation requirements etc which created a problem if those rules could have been bridged and and that would have substantially helped the pre-k program but pre-k you know it's like so many things there are good ones really good ones and then there are some that need to help and so the
the standard of pre-k you probably need a different presentation on that i just know when we had pre-k kids come to our kindergarten school teachers for our teachers to assess on on their placement you could tell what school they came from and so that's probably much better now but it is something
Speaker 84
44:00
the bridge in the gap between pre-k whether they have disabilities or not and kindergarten certainly needs to be
Speaker 97
44:07
looked at all right thank you thank you mr chair senator i'd like to just add
Speaker 94
44:13
to to your comments is i i was visiting a district uh recently it was one of
the schools that was on our list as a as a high poverty high growth district and i just asked you know can you point several things that you think have been successful um you know reasons for that and one of them was there uh the the the work that was going on between the kindergarten staff and the pre-k teachers in order to make sure that what they were getting in pre-k was what would be beneficial for them in kindergarten now um i think it's been successful they're a high
growth district and they also have had consistent a's on their report card the last several years So I think it bears studying to see just how much of that is done statewide. No, ma'am.
Speaker 89
45:30
That may be unfair. That may be out of our wheelhouse. You probably need someone
Speaker 118
45:47
pre-K to discuss that. Thank you, Madam Chairman. I wanted to follow up on Senator Chesterfield's question about the transition from pre-K to kindergarten. And I know that you said it's not necessarily in your wheelhouse, But I know Senator Bond and I have talked about the fact that, or I've related to him, that I've seen research that points out that even if a child comes from an excellent pre-K program, that in many cases the positive effects fade by the fourth grade.
And I have theorized and shared this with Senator Bond that I believe a lot of that is because the student-to-teacher ratio jumps so dramatically from when they're in pre-K to kindergarten or whether it's a teacher or a staff assistant. But you have that jump, and then you have another pretty significant jump, first grade, I think, to third grade. Do you think that that is one of the issues that bears looking at in an adequacy study is how the matrix provides for student-teacher ratios in that kindergarten to fourth grade area, since we know that that's so critical for making sure that students read at grade level?
Speaker 94
47:02
Well, yes, I think it bears studying. I also think it bears studying the quality of the instruction that they're getting in that classroom, too. in in the
Speaker 119
47:12
kindergarten classroom or in the pre-k classroom
Speaker 120
47:14
both both okay all right thank you madam chairman it looks like all of the questions thank
Senator Jane English
Unverified
47:24
you very much it was an excellent presentation we appreciate it thank you lots and ideas lots of things for us to think about thank you okay
All right, we now have Ms. Tracy Ann Nelson, Executive Director of
the Arkansas Education Association. Good afternoon. Thank you. If
you just identify yourselves, please, then you will be recognized.
Speaker 130
48:08
I was going to get the permission of the
Speaker 131
48:12
chairs for AEA President Carol Fleming to
Speaker 134
48:26
join us. That's fine. Thank you. Tracy Ann Nelson, Executive Director of the Arkansas Education
Speaker 138
48:38
Association, good afternoon. Carol Fleming, Speech Language Pathologist, Pulaski Heights Middle School, serving as the
the president of Arkansas Education Association. I have a 20 year, well, 21 year experience working as an educator as a speech language pathologist in a middle school. Again,
Speaker 134
49:13
thank you to the chairs for allowing us to participate in this opportunity to
give our perspective on this biannual study. Our first item was going to be to have an adequacy study. So we appreciate, and we've always supported that, so we appreciate the work that will move forward, and we think it will help to inform funding decisions going forward. I won't, I won't belive at that point.
I also want to acknowledge the 2019 effort by the governor and the state legislature in addressing teacher, the teacher salary schedule by providing funding to districts to offset the increase in costs. We do worry, however, what that will look like going forward once that funding is discontinued. and what the long-term resources will be in order to ensure that those starting salaries will meet the standards.
Our focus at AEA is successful outcomes for students and to ensure that their matriculation to college and career is one that we can meet. To that end, our testimony includes considerations for the needs of special education students, teacher quality investment, pre-K, resources for behavior and discipline, the impact of education support
professionals, using consumer price index to identify the support for funding community schools and facilities. I'll skip adequacy. So teacher effectiveness in the classroom is a strong determinant of differences in student learning. And they far outweigh the effects of the differences
in class size and heterogeneity. Students who are assigned to several ineffective teachers in a row have significantly lower achievement gains. And it's really important that we focus on teacher quality to support student outcomes. The increase in the minimum teacher salary schedule to level the playing field with the highest educational outcomes should be our goal.
We need resources to create incentives for high-quality teachers to be in classrooms where the achievement gap needs intensive intervention. One component to address the need for quality teachers is to raise salaries in the funding matrix and to address the funding shortfalls in salaries that have shifted costs to school districts. That shifting to local resources demonstrates the difficulty many districts have in access to funding based on the property taxes.
The wide range of local property tax revenues available creates a significant disparity in the revenues available to districts across the state, and I guess I'm echoing some of what AAEA just said about property taxes. And it gives those districts that don't have their revenue sources to be at a competitive disadvantage to attract high quality teachers the adequacy process should level the playing field statewide and the state has that responsibility for
the fiscal year 22 and fiscal year 23 which is what we're looking at this adequacy funding plan is to forecast and must address the needs to keep Arkansas viable to improve the teacher pipeline as well as attract quality educators to the state. The national teacher salary average is $59,660. Currently we rank 38th in the nation with the average teacher salary of $48,304. The state
ranks 45th in the nation in the average starting salary for of $34,323. I wanted to also bring to the attention of the committee the increasing labor costs to school districts. We would like the state to ensure prioritizing ongoing funding so increased labor costs are not shifted to local school districts. In particular, with the increase in the, what voters demanded of us to increase our cost,
no not cost of living, our minimum wage to 11 dollars, those costs get shifted to the school districts immediately without the funding to support it. And so they are scrambling to make those changes. So we have to find a way to understand that every time that there are some changes that happen at the state or national level, that we, the state, have a responsibility to those students and to those districts to impact those needs.
So we are a huge proponent of pre-K, and I heard Representative Laurie's perspective on it. We do see, our data shows that pre-K is a very important investment for students. And we, here we go, have some data that says, according to the Southern Regional Education Board, SERB, which we're a part of, Arkansas has historically led the region in access
to state funding for pre-K for three-year-olds and was fourth in the nation. We need to get back to that level, as it has always proven to be value for our students. This success is one our state should build on and invest in significantly. And I realize pre-K is not a part of the matrix, but as you do this adequacy review, maybe something that we should strive toward. According to the Education Commission on States, the preschool through third grade years are foundational in a child's journey toward lifelong learning developmentally these
early elementary years are when children best acquire the academic and non academic development and I think president wants to
Speaker 137
56:18
talk a little about pre-k so what I have
Speaker 138
56:25
found with pre-k for the students who have not actually participated in a pre-K program is that there is an academic gap and that achievement gap for many of those students is very difficult for them to overcome as they continue on through the educational process and what happens is
that those students are the ones who will eventually be referred for special education and we know that special education is part of the matrix and so if if we could get pre-K for our students, for all students, and again, bring us back to being on the forefront nationally for pre-K, that is something that would be very beneficial for all of Arkansas' students. You know, in 2003, we had the Arkansas Better Chance Program, where $111 million was put aside for that.
And I know that in 2017, there was an additional $3 million that was also put into that, But those are not funds that are continuing for our students. And I can tell you that when students are enrolled in a pre-K, a quality pre-K program, they are exposed to the ABCs, the 1, 2, 3s, and the colors. And so they have a strong foundation in going into kindergarten. And, you know, you were talking, Representative Lowry, about that gap between kindergarten and pre-K.
and Senator Chesterfield was also talking about how important it is to have a pre-K program. Also, the thing that students learn by being in a quality pre-K program is they develop those social skills. And they learn how to adapt to the rigors of an educational program. They learn that there are procedures that they have to follow. And one of the other things is that, again, as I said, the ABCs, the 1, 2, 3s, I had a student.
I'm going to change their name, but their first name was also very similar to their last name. And when they were asked to write their name, they could not. So imagine having John Johnson, who is not the student that I had, but I had a student who had a very similar name to that. John Johnson could not spell his name. But yet John was his first name, and John was also the first part of his last name. And he could not recognize those letters, and that's because he was not enrolled in a quality pre-K program,
and that's because he came from an area of poverty, so it was not available for him. And so we have to make sure that we are providing these opportunities for our children, because, again, John Johnson, not his real name, wound up in a self-contained classroom, which means that he was in a very restrictive environment and was unable to socialize with his peers because he did not receive what he needed
to have a strong foundation in entering kindergarten and then moving through
Speaker 137
59:39
the educational process. Special education. We believe that we should fully fund special education's
Speaker 134
59:47
catastrophic needs and suspend the use of funding guidance that favors some districts over others. In 2016, the Arkansas Special Education Task Force reported
the needs for an additional $20 million in funding annually to meet school district costs of catastrophic special education for students identified as needing intensive support. While the matrix does address funding for special education, it is, it in no way differentiates between the levels of support within school districts. The Arkansas Department of Education made changes to catastrophic funding formula reimbursement rules
for school districts. According to ADE, more than 90 districts chose not participate in the 2017 catastrophic submission. Under the current rules implemented for the 2019-2020 school year, districts can receive up to a hundred percent of their reimbursement request above $15,000 and up to 65,000 after adjusted offset. These new rules shifts what districts benefit the most
from catastrophic funds. This change has been helpful for some districts, but the administrative costs to execute the regulations discourage districts from submitting the reimbursement requests. Catastrophic funding must be available to meet the needs of our most vulnerable students, and not just some.
Speaker 138
1:01:28
So as a 21-year-plus special educator, I live special education every single day, as well
as I have a child who went through the special education process when he was a student. So I certainly live and breathe this every day. We have children who are more medically fragile who are coming into our schools, and they need full funding for all of the services that they are entitled to receive. If we have state standards for our students to receive certain services, then we should be funding all of those services for our children.
We have children who are coming in who have tracheostomy tubes and require the care of a nurse to provide those services for them. We have children who have personal care issues, and so they have to have a one-to-one paraeducator in order to provide these services for them. We saw that there is the recommendation of one to 450 students when currently there is none for special education.
We have students who are nonverbal. They will require an augmentative or an alternative communication device in order to communicate in their classes and or to be able to participate in their class discussions. The cost of an augmentative alternative communication device will range from $3,000 to $9,000. My son had an $8,000 augmentative alternative communication device. Now that's something that we were able to go through our payer source Medicaid in order to get that funded.
But then we still had to have the classroom teachers, the paraeducator related services, all of them to have the training in order to be able to appropriately use his communication device so that he could interact with his classroom peers and also with his classroom teachers and the other educators in the school. And so the amount of money that we currently have per student and then with the catastrophic funds, we're not meeting those needs of our children.
We also have children who are coming to us with mental health issues. I have been in a school where I have been hit, bit, spit, and kicked. And we have educators all over the state that are experiencing that. And that's because our children are coming to us with these needs, and they need to have the services provided for them. What we have also seen as educators is that when we are addressing these behavioral issues, then we have parents who get upset, and then they file a due process hearing.
And they say that we're not following FAPE for their child, and they say that we are making them feel bad because we have hurt their feelings because we have tried to do, try to take disciplinary action regarding the child and tried to provide something that would meet their needs, but yet not everyone is properly equipped and trained to help these children who are coming in. And so we need to be able to provide that for them. We need to look at, particularly with special education, the learning environments.
We have to make sure that we are providing a learning environment for our children that is the least restrictive, but we have children that are coming in that because the educators are not properly equipped or because we're not providing the appropriate funding to have those services, we're putting these kids in a classroom-based instruction facility. We're putting them in an alternative learning environment. We're putting them homebound. We're putting them in restrictive environments, and we're not allowing them to be able to
interact with their classroom peers or their social peers and that is something that we really need to make sure that through the funding process that we are able to provide the most appropriate needs for our children be it mental health therapists social workers nursing physical therapy occupational therapy speech language pathology everything that these kids need and we need to make sure that we are fully funding special education in order to meet those needs.
Speaker 134
1:06:07
little bit on behavior and discipline and relate some of that to what President Fleming just mentioned. Behavior issues have been interfering with teaching learning and it has notably worsened according to about 62% of teachers that we polled. So we I think AAEA also talked about safety and safety includes
behavior and discipline because students and educators need to be in a safe environment. Over half our teachers have reported wishing that they could spend fewer school days minutes on discipline and the need for behavioral support in the form of funding for social workers and counselors and some of the other support professionals that the president discussed is we're hoping that the committee will consider in the matrix funding education support professionals
for schools to run successfully daily we need others that play a vital role these These education support professionals deserve to have the line item in the matrix, which provides for their services to be significantly increased or even acknowledged. I know, you know, we have transportation in the matrix, but there are other education support professionals that need to be recognized in the matrix. I already talked about the minimum wage increase in 2018 and its impact on school districts
budgets. The consumer price index is how we think that the funding levels should be considered. The matrix must be funded at the levels necessary to keep up with inflation. In 2017, the Bureau of legislative research presented the consumer price index data showing that school districts would need a 2.5% increase to stay on par with the
increase in cost. Unfortunately, we were only able to provide 1.1% increase. As a result, districts were forced to absorb the rest of the increase in cost to do business. This has impacts across districts budgets and spending decisions, all of which have direct impact on students in our state. Simply put, when the increase in state funding is less than the consumer price index, it is effectively a cut in funding. Community schools model. In doing some of the research for this work,
we were struck by the opportunity that exists for rural and urban schools to adapt the community schools model. But that is a new concept for Arkansas, and we need resources in low-income communities to both schools and families to support that. And that's across the state. That's not just in cities, but it's also in rural communities. Those schools can serve as a true community hub, and it could utilize ESA funds to implement the community schools
model. School facilities funding. I think this has been a challenge for us in our state, even though we've had the partnership program. As our state works to address school districts access to technology by expanding bandwidth with a $25 million investment for broadband statewide, some school facilities are ill-equipped to participate in the technology opportunity
because their facilities are not within the current standards to meet the need of new technology. So we're making the investment, but on the other side, the facilities aren't able to match what the investment can do. The lowest standard of warm, safe, and dry for student learning environment should evolve to ensure students' access to high-quality facilities paired with technology can help to improve student performance. The facilities' partnership program fund projections continue
to be underfunded. The facilities' funding issue is quite obvious in low-property wealth districts where there's no other mechanism to raise facility funding. The transfer of $16 million annually to health insurance for public school employees continues to have long-term implications for facilities funding for public schools in Arkansas. In addition, it sets up an increased burden on public school employee participants
in their health insurance plan. We recommend that the partnership program be fully funded and consistently through a dedicated and ongoing funding source to meet the evolving needs for students to access state-of-the-art facilities, and two, restrictions put in place to prevent these funds from being used outside of their designation. In conclusion, we hope that the adequacy recommendations
that we've brought forward for fiscal year 22 and fiscal year 23, we hope it includes a more comprehensive look at the true cost of public schools and student success and be committed to supporting districts with costs that continue to fall outside the matrix. We know how hard you all work on creating this for students and how that will really support student learning.
And we're happy to help you to do that work and understand that you have the responsibility to ensure adequate and equitable education for all Arkansas students. That's it. I'll take questions. Thank
Senator Jane English
Unverified
1:12:27
you very much for your presentation. And let me see. Senator Cheatham. I was getting my answers from
Speaker 156
1:12:36
you. You're asking the wrong people the questions.
Speaker 158
1:12:41
You're supposed to ask them after you. Wait a minute now.
Senator Chesterfield pretty much knows it all. OK. But I will – I'll repeat my question today. All right. And
Speaker 69
1:12:52
it may not be for you ladies. It may not be for you all. We can throw in. But if there's an answer from the crowd out in the back, we might ask them. I had the privilege last week or maybe this week, this week, of spending some time in a pre-K-4 classroom and observed some things. And I wondered – I really want to talk to the superintendent before I got out of town.
But if a child comes in, are they tested pre-K, or are they tested for mobility, social? There's an assessment done on each child that comes
Speaker 137
1:13:30
into pre-K. And that's across the state? It should be.
Speaker 69
1:13:33
That's what the program standards are. And, of course, the school district is not getting any – they may get some funding, but if they want to add classes, that's just out of their pocket. Yeah, that's outside of the matrix. So if a child in one of those classrooms needs services, is that out of the school district pockets also?
Yes, sir. They don't get, that's just out of their, okay. And, okay, in a situation like that where a school
Speaker 163
1:14:00
district is offering an extra class, they're paying for the whole thing outside any other
Speaker 75
1:14:06
funding. Are they required to furnish that child an
Speaker 69
1:14:14
education in that pre-K class if he's not functioning and is affecting the other children in the class?
Speaker 137
1:14:30
in the community. That's a good question. I'm not sure. You're saying if the child has mental
Speaker 134
1:14:37
abilities. Behavioral and mental impacts, if the school is required to support that child's learning in pre-K? Yeah. I don't know. Right.
Speaker 138
1:14:49
Right. You can still have disciplinary sanctions, but I think what you're asking would be specific to that program, and I wouldn't be able to.
The parent demands assistance for that child. Does
Speaker 69
1:15:02
the school district force to provide that? Richard he's not listening to us back here talk Senator Cheatham I don't want to tell you the wrong
Speaker 137
1:15:15
information I'm not sure about that Richard can I ask you a question you got
Representative Bruce Cozart
Unverified
1:15:27
to come to the mic we got to record you and I know we've
Speaker 69
1:15:32
been here a while but I'll be I'll try to be brief this is Richard the question i was asking was so the school district has a class that's that's completely
Representative Bruce Cozart
Unverified
1:15:43
funded it would be a question for tanya williams but we don't have her here yeah i'm on pre-k yeah
Speaker 158
1:15:52
i know he doesn't look like her well you were a superintendent did you do anything while you were there not much miss williams is
Speaker 69
1:15:59
much better looking than you are i have to admit but no just
you know i know some some schools in my district you know have of course have pre-k classes but in some situations where the school has extra dollars they understand the importance of pre-k so they add an extra class that they're funding completely out of money yes or somewhere i guess it's just district money they're using there's yes okay and if a child needs services is that school required to furnish those services in a pre-k
Speaker 48
1:16:30
class so there's a couple of different things you
Speaker 43
1:16:34
know pre-k money there there are grants out there for pre-k some districts fund pre-k
nsl i'm sorry esa funds can be used for pre-k so the sources of funds uh range for a district to establish pre-k program now i think what you're talking about is more on the special ed uh or
Speaker 48
1:16:51
students of uh sort of handicapping disabilities in pre-k behavioral issues oh is tanya
Senator Jane English
Unverified
1:16:59
here no somebody here to speak on this from pre-k please come and join us we're looking for all the answers
Speaker 84
1:17:10
there are money set aside to deal with those um early find uh issues on pre-k students but i'm I'm going to let the real person answer that. The real person.
Speaker 179
1:17:25
I'm not with pre-K, but Courtney Solis-Ford. I'm one of the attorneys with the Division of Elementary and Secondary Education. So if you have a private preschool that accepts federal funds, they have to either identify a child with disabilities and provide them all the necessary supports and services
to make progress and succeed towards the general education. If they don't accept federal funds, they don't have that same obligation. But if you have a public school that is operating a preschool, then under the ADA, they do have to make reasonable accommodations to children who are not identified under IDEA. But if they are identified under IDEA, they have to provide all those same supports and services. So these
Speaker 69
1:18:06
pre-case units are tested to see what level they're at or if they have a...
Speaker 179
1:18:12
Again, if it's a public preschool center, then yes, they have to be assessing those
children to determine if they have any disabilities or impairments that require supports and services. And if they are identified under IDEA, they receive that federal funding and they provide it. If they're not identified, but they might have, like, just a physical or mental impairment that does not constitute a disability, they have to provide reasonable accommodations, but not to the extent that they do under IDEA. And if the parents don't want to
Speaker 69
1:18:41
have the child tested in the school, it's just out of luck.
Speaker 179
1:18:46
There are provisions in which they can override the parents' consent to test, but not to provide services.
Right. Okay. But that's a choice. Just
Speaker 43
1:18:57
to follow up, the comment that I made earlier about these day treatment centers that are currently serving pre-K kids that have closed their doors, those students are now the responsibility of those local school districts so they do have to serve those kids many of them are serving them through their co-ops and I think you will see report later that those numbers have jumped up dramatically with no additional funding
Speaker 48
1:19:18
and so schools are absorbing those costs but yes they all right if they're identified they have
Speaker 183
1:19:25
to be served like both of you are you finished okay thank you all right Senator Elliott. One
Senator Joyce Elliott
Unverified
1:19:36
more. Madam Chair I'll just state what I want to talk about later and not just try to get an answer now because of time but what I would like for you to think do some thinking about and maybe a look at some of the research I'm increasingly concerned as we are talking about an adequate education that we might be missing the ball with pre-k kids and grades one
through two most likely with saying things such as first grade I mean pre-k has become the new first grade and first grade has become a new second grade which I think research increasingly shows this is not good for kids these are adult imposed ideas so what I want to have some discussion about later on is this the the fact that for example John Johnson does not you know or that the example that you gave, might not be as significant as we think,
and I'm clear about might not be, because we are not allowing kids to be kids. We continue to push them to know more and more based on what adults are imposing on them. So at some point, I'd like to have an informed conversation about whether or not we are pushing kids too much and starting too late in the interventions where we were investing our money way back for kids to just have normal kind of lives, then they can excel more quickly
even when they reach the first or second grade, such as in Finland where kids don't even start school until they're 7 years old, but nobody is behind because the investment has been from the time they were born we're making sure we were we were making sure they had an adequate an adequate and equitable kind of life so not try to have an answer
Speaker 106
1:21:39
now madam chair but that's when i put it on your radar thank you very much
Senator Jane English
Unverified
1:21:46
okay representative lowry one moment there you go thank you
Speaker 116
1:21:53
madam chairman first i wanted to thank you for the
Speaker 118
1:21:58
positive encouragement you gave me a gave me back in the 2017 session when I was pursuing the legislation related to to net balance reserves if you remember in some of the meetings we had one of the issues that I
pointed out that I was very concerned about was allowing districts to be able to spend down those those fund balances by moving it over into the building fund reserves which i refer to constantly as a hidey hole and two years now later i have really come to the conclusion that that is exactly what it is is a hidey hole and so my question for you i know that these hearings are about adequacy and you know what the state's responsibility is on adequacy but i'm sure
you would agree that this is a partnership adequacy is a partnership between the state and local school districts so does the AEA involve itself I know you involve yourself in collective bargaining for teachers and teacher salaries but do you ever engage school boards across the state that have huge building reserves that really came out of millages that could be supporting teacher salaries could be supporting lower class sizes things like that do you engage
because i i just don't believe school boards are aware many times they might see a spreadsheet but they're not aware how significant some of the numbers are i mean like little rock school district for instance has 105 million in their building reserve um is that something that y'all see as a mission in bringing those kinds of things to the
Speaker 137
1:23:53
attention of school boards? We do, Representative Lowry. But we don't only look
Speaker 134
1:23:58
at one thing just related to salary.
We try to look at the overall experience of a student and what the investments are. And what school boards and superintendents do to make decisions, we try to impact by giving them information. And sure, I don't know if your idea is sort of pulling out teacher salaries out of the matrix so that it can be directly funded. But, you know, so we'd really need to look at the ripple
effects across education funding. And we definitely try to engage school boards about resources it impacts classrooms class size right and students and I remember cautioning you and other
Speaker 119
1:24:46
educational proponents of increasing teacher salaries that this is not repeating money if you have
Speaker 118
1:24:53
these fund balances and you're putting a cap on how much they could you know they could certainly use the money a spend down could be to provide teacher bonuses where maybe
there haven't been adequate increases but it's not repeating money so yeah so I agree with your perspective there that everything is open to be able to use those fund balances and as even even building funds because even though I was told the districts would have to get permission to be able to move that money back into net reserve that ends up from what I've been told not the case and so
I think it circumvents the intent of the law where money could be bounced back and forth and never violate the 20% cap so I would just ask I see what you mean yeah so I would just ask that to really be an adequate to be a adequacy advocate it also would well serve and I've told organizations this about that forward Arkansas I think I've told that when they were looking for money for
pre-k I said well here's here's a good example where there's some money that could be used for pre-k is are these large reserve funds and there were some districts that had significant balances so I would encourage you and in using your advocacy expertise to delve into those areas as well. Thank you for
Speaker 137
1:26:33
the recommendation, Representative Lowry. Thank you. Thank you
Senator Jane English
Unverified
1:26:40
very much for your presentations. We appreciate it.
Thank you for the questions, thoughtful questions. So we have one more thing on our schedule and Representative Eubanks. Eubanks. Yes, thank you, Madam Chair.
Representative Jon S. Eubanks
Unverified
1:26:59
Representative Vaught couldn't be here today, but she has an ISP that she would like the committee to adopt. Do you need more information than that? That sounds good.
Speaker 199
1:27:13
Motion to adopt. Motion at the proper time, and that's now.
Senator Jane English
Unverified
1:27:19
I have a motion and a second. All in favor? Aye. All opposed? Thank you very much. I
Representative Bruce Cozart
Unverified
1:27:25
think we are adjourned for the day. We have four to hear tomorrow. We have three more advocacy groups, and Nell has a presentation tomorrow. So back here tomorrow morning, 9 o'clock. Thank you all.
Unknown speaker
1:27:56
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Agenda
A. Call to Order
B. Opening Remarks by Committee Chairs
C. Approval of the Minutes of the October 7, 2019 and October 8, 2019 Meetings [Exhibits C1 & C2]
Vote on hiring research company for Education Advocacy
D. Discussion of Written Testimony Submitted by Various Education Advocacy Organizations Regarding their Concerns about the State’s Current System of Funding for Public Education [Exhibits D2-D4]
E. Discussion and Consideration for Adoption of Interim Study Proposal 2019-139 by Representative Vaught, CONCERNING THE TEACHER COMPENSATION PROGRAM OF 2003; TO AMEND THE DEFINITION OF "TEACHER" UNDER THE TEACHER COMPENSATION PROGRAM OF 2003 [Exhibit E]
F. Other Business
G. Adjournment
Documents
Speakers
Speaker 1
Representative Bruce Cozart
Unverified
Speaker 7
Speaker 27
Senator Mark Johnson
Unverified
Speaker 43
Speaker 48
Speaker 55
Speaker 59
Speaker 60
Speaker 49
Speaker 68
Speaker 69
Speaker 71
Speaker 75
Speaker 85
Senator Joyce Elliott
Unverified
Speaker 94
Speaker 98
Speaker 105
Senator Linda Chesterfield
Unverified
Speaker 84
Speaker 97
Speaker 89
Speaker 118
Speaker 119
Speaker 120
Senator Jane English
Unverified
Speaker 130
Speaker 131
Speaker 134
Speaker 138
Speaker 137
Speaker 156
Speaker 158
Speaker 163
Speaker 179
Speaker 183
Speaker 106
Speaker 116
Representative Jon S. Eubanks
Unverified
Speaker 199