ALC-Administrative Rules
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0:00
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Speaker 5
8:00
Well, folks, we'd like to welcome everyone to our rules meeting this morning, and we'll go ahead and get started. Our first up is the Department of Community Corrections. Do we have someone to come to the table and speak?
Speaker 4
8:30
If you would please introduce yourself and
Speaker 10
8:39
you may begin. I'm Dinah Tyler, Deputy Director at Arkansas Community Correction. We have our administrative rule number
Speaker 11
8:47
8.8 before you today for updating. You notice we changed the name of it because ours have always been named administrative regulation to rule as per the new statute going into effect a lot of this
is just clean up we didn't particularly care for the way it was worded the main thing is in section 5 this is access to the community service program and let me explain to you what that is when we have people on suit community supervision parole or probation sometimes they do work projects um but we want to make it clear that those are only in specific instances it's by court order parole board order or as a sanction for
violation for breaking a rule under the offender violation guide or to convert fees owed for supervision to community service work hours. There's a conversion table for that. It goes on minimum wage. So if you are indigent, you can't pay your fees, you're not working, we may assign you some community service hours. We want to make it clear that just because you get angry at somebody, an officer does, you can't say, okay, outside and mow the yard. There has to be specific
instances, and that's the main thrust of what we're doing.
Speaker 6
10:14
okay do we have any uh comments or questions from the committee if there are no questions
Speaker 13
10:23
from the members then without objection this rule is reviewed thank you very much thank you Next on the agenda is the Department of Environmental Quality, please come to the table, thank you.
Speaker 4
10:55
And if you would please introduce yourself
Speaker 16
10:59
and you may begin. Michael Grape, Arkansas Department of Environmental
Speaker 17
11:04
Quality, Chief Program Officer. Alan Gates, partner in Mitchell Williams, and representing today
Speaker 18
11:10
Tyson Foods. Jordan Wimpy, also with Mitchell Williams, here today on
Speaker 17
11:19
behalf of Tyson Foods. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This is another one of the third-party
Speaker 22
11:24
rulemaking proceedings that you've seen in the past to adjust the mineral water quality criteria in specific
streams. This particular petition involves the Waldron facility that Tyson has operated for decades in Scott County. Years ago, about eight years
Speaker 17
11:43
ago, the manner in which permits were calculated, was changed, and that resulted in a very low permit requirement for
Speaker 22
11:54
Tyson related to chloride sulfates and total dissolved solids, essentially salts, dissolved salts.
Tyson was not changing its discharge, effectively could not reduce its discharge very much, and it was understood that Tyson would have a certain period of time to go through a study to demonstrate that the standards in the stream could be increased to match what they had been for decades. That study has been done. There was, frankly, a lot of back and forth about how that study should be done. There were some changes at the Department of Environmental
Quality and EPA about how the evolving science should apply. All of the studies have now been completed. The department and Tyson and Tyson's consultants were all in agreement that the studies justify the adjustment in the minerals levels. I want to stress this will not increase minerals in the stream. It will simply adjust the standards to match what the stream has had all along and will match the quality that the studies confirm support the aquatic life use. The two streams
involved are a short man-made drainage ditch that flows from Tyson's facility and the Waldron POTW to the Poteau River, and then the Poteau River to the Highway 59 bridge, which is about five miles short of the Oklahoma border. There'll be no change at the Oklahoma border. Members, does anyone have any questions?
Speaker 13
13:39
If there aren't any questions, without objection, this rule is reviewed and approved. Thank you, gentlemen. Thank you very much. Next,
Speaker 6
13:59
we have the Department of Finance and Administration. If you would please come to the table and introduce yourself.
Speaker 25
14:09
Mary Kathryn Williams Chief Counsel Office of State Procurement
Speaker 26
14:32
David Withrow Counsel Office of State Procurement Ed
Speaker 29
14:36
Armstrong, Office of State Procurement and State Procurement Director.
Speaker 26
14:41
This rule is Rule 8, 1911-230, 1911-230 being the request for proposals statute, so this is dealing with RFPs, and the rule is essentially trying to elaborate upon and flush out the appropriate discussions between the state and vendor during an RFP process that can be allowed and providing some depth to that in terms of some definitional depth as well as to expand
the ability of the state to conduct negotiations which is already under the law but the rule lagged behind the statute language a bit, and this rule is being done to try to update that rule to match the current language. So in summary, what is done is differentiated that there are discussions allowed to clarify the proposal
as well as for the purpose of negotiations. And within the negotiations, portion of the rule, serial negotiations, which is the only thing that the rule reflects currently, of course, are still allowed. Then also, best and final offer negotiations or BAPHO negotiations can be conducted as well. And again, that's already in the statutory language. It's just this is trying to catch the rule up to that language.
And a BAPHO negotiations being able to bring in the vendors or the contractors that are reasonably susceptible to being selected and request a best and final offer, which is advantageous for the state on the purchasing side because it obviously lowers the price further. It incentivizes the contractors to come up with creative ways to lower those prices to just ultimately get better pricing for the state.
Speaker 35
16:57
members does anyone have any questions thank
Representative Jeff Wardlaw
Unverified
17:16
you mr. chairman ed i see you sitting down there if you look on the uh i guess it's page 10 of our agenda public comment for this was march 22nd through march 25th at that same time we were
passing all the new procurement laws so i guess i'm curious to see how this fits in with the new bafo and all the negotiations that we put into legislation this last session they
Speaker 40
17:42
align with that because the legislation was trying to clarify what our rule is also trying to clarify and that's open up negotiations so that we can have a best and final offer. There was already statutory language in there but what this rule does and what the statute
did in part was explain that when you clarify it's not a substantive change in the terms you know that's for example now in the statute it's also in this rule so we were mindful of it as we were going through and having some of those discussions with respect as far as the ideas now how the statute actually ends up getting codified we
Speaker 29
18:25
might have to go through and change the section numbers but the concepts mesh follow-up mr.
Representative Jeff Wardlaw
Unverified
18:31
chair so I'm having a hard time
understanding why we need this since we actually clarified all this in statute through the session well
Speaker 40
18:40
because there's some sections that are in the statute that use language for example in the statute it says that you can negotiate with those people reasonably susceptible of being awarded well what does that mean I mean there's this ordinary everyday English but then I have procurement people ask me what does it mean reasonably susceptible is that everybody it's like well no actually reasonably susceptible means if you
have some criteria that define what you're gonna be looking at as you select and separate the best from the worst and from the middling then those people who look like based on that criteria have a chance of being awarded the contract that's your your competitive range and that's who's reasonably susceptible so we add some some depth and guidance and definitions to it so that there's more clarity mr chairman i get
Representative Jeff Wardlaw
Unverified
19:39
one more follow-up sure go ahead so what
bothers me is is we have this
law on the books now where y'all come back every so often they go through all your rules and you throw away the ones you don't need i feel like we're going to pass this today and you're going to come back in a year and say we don't
need it because of these laws so i i don't i don't want to put excess stuff out
Speaker 47
20:03
on the books i guess is what i'm getting at yeah no i don't think
Speaker 40
20:09
we'll be throwing this one away the problem that we've had in the past uh year and a half or so was that we had a restrictive rule left over from my predecessor and my predecessor's predecessor
that said you could only negotiate with the top ranked vendor so imagine you get two decent offers they look good you'd like to negotiate with both of them maybe even play them a little bit against each other without letting them know who's ranked higher we couldn't do that we had to start with the highest ranked vendor and many times that created situations where we would have to spend a lot of time with the highest ranked vendor and then if we couldn't work something out or we did and then there was a protest and it turned out there was something that disqualified them we'd
spend a lot of time and energy dealing with that top-ranked vendor only and this will allow us in certain cases then to have that discretion to ask let's say the top three vendors give us another round of proposals and that's not something we're going to want to get rid of where it's helping us become more strategic and make better use of our
Speaker 35
21:18
time. Jump back in the queue if you need to but we'll move to senator rice
Senator Terry Rice
Unverified
21:25
thank mr chair and if i missed it i'm sorry do the majority of states
have best and final offer uh in this setting that this is or how many states do you know
Speaker 40
21:38
i don't know the precise number but i know that it's part of the model procurement code which is thousands and thousands of public procurement units cities and counties that that also use the model procurement code. And I think something like 20 some states have adopted also a strict model procurement code. But BAFO is something that in the national organizations of procurement,
you can Google it and go to NIGP or NASPO. All of those major procurement organizations talk about the BAFO. We were behind the curve and behind the times in not having a rule that let us BAFO. Our statute did, but our rule didn't, because it only let us
Senator Terry Rice
Unverified
22:22
do it one person at a time.
And in my devil's advocate role, and no disparity to anyone, I look down the road when we're all gone. And while I see the
good in this, and while I use things in my business with vendors that I play one off the other,
is there any concern that there's not enough oversight when you get out of that one or two vendors and you can tighten them down a little bit more for the good of the people of the state? Is there any concern in there that a small group or a person could manipulate anything personally out of something like that instead of taking the best bidder? Then you're playing one and two off each other and you might get a better deal with two overall but is there any concern there with someone could
Speaker 40
23:19
be manipulated well we've thought about that and there's actually two different this is applying only to the request for proposals and with respect to the ifb the invitation for a bid if it's an actual bid that goes to the lowest bidder you don't have this flexibility you do have to start with the low bidder if you're negotiating and it's a sealed bid but if it's a request for proposals where price might not flip it price might only be 30 percent of the
consideration that's where we can do this but what even still we didn't want people to to be able to you know finagle although we want them to have competition and play them against each other we wanted to make sure that there's documentation and that if you do go ahead and let's say ask the top two vendors to sharpen their pencils and resubmit proposals that you re-evaluate and that you document it just as in the first instance. So all of the protections that are in there for the first round of evaluation are also in there for the next round if we do a BAPO.
Senator Terry Rice
Unverified
24:24
And for fairness and clarification on this, these people that are bidding know to start with that
there is another round possibly coming and some of the concerns we've had, you know, in the final outcome and maybe vendors not feeling the, you know, if they don't get it, they all feel like they, you know, they've come up short. But in this way, they're going in and know that there, you know, there may be some fine-tuning at the end, correct? Senator, exactly right.
Speaker 40
24:54
In fact, this rule requires that if you're going to entertain BAFOs, that you put it in the RFP. if you don't put it in the RFP you can't do it. So we're going to encourage everybody to put it in their RFPs that they can but if if they don't then they're not going to be able to have this flexibility. Right.
Representative Jeff Wardlaw
Unverified
25:28
Thank you. Thank you Mr. Chair. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I got a motion if you'll entertain it. I'll make a motion we hold this rule until August. The acts that were passed in the last session don't go into effect to july 24th july 25th in that range if we hold this till august it gives our legal staff time to make sure that there's no conflicts and then we can review these properly in august with confidence to know that there is actually no conflicts between the acts we just passed and these rules do we have
Speaker 35
26:02
a second or motion here a second all in favor
All opposed? Ayes have it. Folks, we're going to hold this until August. Thank you.
Speaker 6
26:18
Next, we have the Department of Health, Center for Local Public Health Environment and Health Protection.
Speaker 5
26:37
if you would please introduce yourself and you
Laura Shu
Unverified
26:48
may begin good morning thank you mr. chair members of the committee my name is laura shu i'm general counsel
Representative Dwight Tosh
Unverified
26:54
for the department of health and i have with me terry paul environmental branch chief and also chuck thompson our managing attorney to assist me with any questions that we may have we have three rules to present for you today the first being rules pertaining to food service establishments and as we are
going along with our rule promulgation process we'll make sure that we comply with Act 315 of 2019 to remove the word regulation from our rules as we go forward from here on out with food service establishments the rule the purpose of this is to protect public health and provide consumers food that is safe, unadulterated, and honestly presented. We had a public hearing on November 16th of 2018, and we received no public comments, either oral or written. There will be a food certified manager
requirement that adds a minimal cost to the operation of a food service establishment. It's my understanding that several nationally recognized online and in-person trainings are available for less than $200 and these certifications are renewable on a three to five year cycle we have a general and specific authority to promulgate this rule it was passed by the Board of Health in October and we had a few questions in public health regarding hepatitis A and we will be conducting a
presentation by Dr. Smith our state health officer and Dr. Dirk Haslow our state epidemiologist in public health on July 8th to provide more information about that. And that concludes our presentation unless we have any questions. Members, anyone have any questions?
Speaker 68
28:46
Senator Johnson? Thank you, Chairman. Is this for each
establishment, such as a restaurant? Is there a size requirement on this
Speaker 70
28:56
yes sir there are three classes of restaurants in our system there are the high priority inspections that do a lot of manipulating the food and then there's the secondary or the the medium requirement and then there's the the very lowest requirement like grocery stores that have no pre nothing but prepackaged food the medium and the high priority establishments are what applies to this rule the dollar stores and things like that would not
apply to this rule just as a matter of note we also give at least a year to come into compliance with any new establishment and the Hospitality Association offers training and then again there's national groups and a large portion of our folks are already trained as
Speaker 72
29:45
well so a follow-up I mean would a restaurant be required to have this position
Speaker 74
29:52
yes sir a restaurant would have to
have someone on staff that is a certified food manager
Speaker 70
30:01
no matter what size of the restaurant if it's serving and mippling food yes sir it's either going to be
Speaker 5
30:15
a medium priority or a high priority establishment thank you just to clarify that wouldn't necessarily
Speaker 70
30:23
someone who assumes the role who's already there yes sir many chain stores and different organizations actually
send their people for this training there are many numbers but yes sir it's just to have someone on staff
Representative Bruce Cozart
Unverified
30:46
representative you back that's because you swapped over so I was I was first I'll take it represented Cozart here does that also affect food trucks food vendors it
Speaker 70
30:57
should yes sir okay they are required to they would be just like
restaurant in our system. All right,
Speaker 87
31:09
thank you. All right, again there, Representative Eubank, did
Representative Jon S. Eubanks
Unverified
31:18
you have a question now? Thank you, Mr. Chair. Well, the representative Kozart got part of my question, but would somebody have, is that just one person on staff or for each shift? I mean, I have convenience stores that serve food that I think would fall under this. Grocery
stores are preparing food now in their deli section so. Yes sir it would, I'm sorry.
Speaker 70
31:47
Go ahead. Yes sir it would require anyone that's manipulating or handling food to have a manager. It is not necessarily worded to say 24 hours I I believe it's worded to say on staff or on call or ability to contact that person.
Representative Jon S. Eubanks
Unverified
32:01
Follow up, Mr. Chair? Are we having a rash of problems that would require this?
Speaker 84
32:11
The greater part of our rules, and one thing that Ms. Hsu had referred to,
Speaker 70
32:16
I believe, we are trying to update our code to the 2013 federal FDA food code. And one of the things in that code is to have a certified manager of some sort on staff. And that is part of the equation. So yes sir, that is what we're trying to update it to. Is there an ongoing rash of illnesses or issue like that? None that I'm aware that would do this.
But it is definitely in protective of public health to have people that are trained and aware of how to deal with food
Chair
Unverified
32:57
related problems. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Seat 69,
Representative DeAnn Vaught
Unverified
33:03
who's in the inbox? Representative Vaught, you're recognized. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Did y'all have somebody run this bill for y'all during session? Because we had a bill before us that was voted on that
was identical to this, pretty much. Representative
Representative Dwight Tosh
Unverified
33:18
Vaught, Laura Shue, General Counsel. I'm not aware of the bill of which you speak. We did have a bill that Representative Ladyman advocated for in public health dealing with hepatitis A and mandatory testing and immunizations for food safety workers. That did not pass out of House Public Health. Thank you. May I have a follow-up, Mr. Chair? You're a recognizer. Thank
Representative DeAnn Vaught
Unverified
33:43
you can I ask why one day public hearing one day for public comments it
Representative Dwight Tosh
Unverified
33:50
I'm sorry if I miss misspoke we had a public hearing on November 16 after the 30-day requirement we followed the APA and title 10 3 309 for any legislative review and approval okay that just
Representative DeAnn Vaught
Unverified
34:02
caught my ear when you said that
Representative Fredrick J. Love
Unverified
34:10
thank you representative love thank you mr. chair miss you looking at this rule is this
tell me how this is surf safe certification balances out is this surf safe certain certification I mean
Speaker 70
34:32
is Is this ServSafe certification? Yes, sir. ServSafe is one of the companies that provide
Representative Fredrick J. Love
Unverified
34:39
that training that's nationally recognized. Okay, but I'm just saying you want
Speaker 70
34:44
people to have ServSafe certification? ServSafe or another, yes, sir, nationally recognized managerial food service type license.
Representative Fredrick J. Love
Unverified
34:52
So I'm confused because I thought that we were supposed to already have people that were ServSafe certified in restaurants.
Speaker 70
35:00
it's not required in in our rule at this point it is definitely recommended we recommend that for years all of our staff are certified through
Representative Fredrick J. Love
Unverified
35:12
serve safe as well okay i think um for just the knowledge of the committee somebody needs to talk about serve safe certification because if anyone knows anything about serve safe certification you want your basic employees
knowing what to do i mean this is like don't take your apron into the restroom uh restroom stuff like that uh so i think that clarification needs to be made so that you can ensure that the members know what serve safe certification is and just the basic uh hygiene of of serve safe so with that mr chairman thank you i'm curious is there
Speaker 5
35:51
i mean we just went through a whole lot of deregulation legislation and tried
to move all these regulations is there any evidence that this certification improves health i mean if other states are doing this and then there ought to be some evidence that says yeah when people start taking this training the incidence of diminish is there any evidence like that
Representative Dwight Tosh
Unverified
36:17
I would just state that again these are guidelines that are produced by the FDA and our current rules are based on 2009 guidelines these are updating our
rules to the 2013 guidelines there are currently 2018 guidelines that have been issued and we will be looking at those upon further review so we are getting our rules up to speed with the 2013 FDA guidelines they based all of their recommendations based on scientific data that's evidence-based well I
Speaker 5
36:49
don't know if that's I might disagree with FDA everything is based on data but you know we just got through with the red tape
reduction and all of much of that came from red tape that's coming down from the federal government that we have to abide by but we don't really have the evidence so when I ask the question do you have evidence that this certification reduces or improves health the answer I'm assuming is no but we're relying on the federal government to have evidence that does and we're just trusting that in addition to
Representative Dwight Tosh
Unverified
37:28
the FDA guidelines we're also relying on the fact that we have had 380 reported
incidents of hep a in our state a lot of those have been connected to restaurants and so we're trying to educate our restaurant and hospitality association folks to make sure that we are not spreading foodborne diseases through the restaurants, making sure that everybody's getting certified and getting up to speed as far as cleanliness, and making sure that we're not spreading Hep A. Well, if
Speaker 5
37:56
that is true, and I assume that is, and then there must be some evidence that shows that states that send their people through this training, then the incidence
Representative Dwight Tosh
Unverified
38:09
that accurate? I don't have that study right in front of me, But I would argue that if folks are trained to be more clean and exercise safe, clean food handling, then yes, disease would be reduced. Can you get that
Speaker 129
38:32
evidence for me, please? I would be happy
Speaker 71
38:36
to. Thank you. Senator Johnson? Hopefully last question. question what about the short-term local events food service events such as you know fairs or
celebrations have they got to have a manager whenever they're serving food each one of those are one one event the way this is worded
Speaker 70
38:57
I do not believe so because those are a lot of times nonprofit or other occasions if they do bring in an establishment like a food truck as someone mentioned earlier that would have to have a certified manager but actually the way this is worded I don't believe it would apply
to a overnight event it would get a good deal and be highly recommended but it would not apply to an overnight
Speaker 71
39:26
event or one day event follow-up chairman I'll recognized the uh what i have a concern on is this is a private business owner and it's their self-interest to do these things to keep their customer base why do we have to have a rule or regulation to uh it's their best interest can we keep up with the best interest of the
private business owner and the customer I mean I understand you're you're going by FDA rules or regulations that's not a law that's a suggestion for this state and if they don't serve their customers well they'll lose those customers so why do why do we need that that's I mean it's kind of a moot point to me so I don't know how to answer that
Speaker 70
40:17
but I would say it in this regard that it is it is in a vested interest for that owner of that restaurant to uh to maintain
and i believe this is one way to demonstrate uh to his customers to his uh staff that he takes these matters
Senator Terry Rice
Unverified
40:41
uh very seriously thank you senator rice your record thank mr chair
and and i wasn't paying attention at first but the first time I heard that we're trying to meet FDA federal guidelines, I understand that's what y'all do, that you've got my attention, and it's been restated, and there's many things on
electrical wiring and all, and some things that, in theory, they work good, they should work, but they don't. We have national chains. I have a family member who had to take shots, because I guess it's HEPA, from a national chain restaurant. Now, they had all this stuff in place before, so it happens. As a retailer, I deal with a lot of these government regulations, and most of them come from federal, that don't make, they're intended to make things safe, but they really don't change it that much,
but it feels good on the other end and I'm the one and the people out here in business are the ones that have to deal with this again if we don't if we don't provide what we're supposed to provide we're going to go out of business and what I'm seeing here you're talking about this is about $200 cost do you go around or do they have to take off work and go to get certification or or
Speaker 69
42:03
how's this gonna be done? These are private companies that provide this service.
Speaker 70
42:06
The Arkansas Hospitality Association also provides this service, and it's
Senator Terry Rice
Unverified
42:12
been widely accepted around the day. Okay, does the Department of Health now not go around and tell people, you've gotta do this, this, and this. You've gotta instruct your employees. You've gotta have, in the bathrooms, where we all see the signs, you must wash your hands. It's not an option. But in society, because of the trouble I have hiring competent people that actually want to work and will do what I tell them,
and I've hired more of them lately than ever. We used to never have turnover. I can't get through to them. I'm saying it's my hard-headedness and old age that I'm in now. We're in a society now that this is tough. paying $200 and getting some certification is a feel-good yes it might do something in the instance your major people are doing this you've said already correct yes sir many of the
Speaker 70
43:09
chain stores and many of the
establishments are requiring in and providing this training for their employees and I
Senator Terry Rice
Unverified
43:16
won't say food I'd like to have some more discussion I've not heard anything about this and i'd like to take this
back to my small outfits mom pop that i never hear any food problem out of because they're doing it right but we're punishing everybody and it can happen anywhere i understand this even the ones that's doing the best job but this is another one of those things that it's got well intentioned but you're you're putting more stuff on little
businesses down here the big ones can absorb it better because again you said they're already doing it these little ones are trying to do it and i think they're they're doing a good job of it but uh i've got a i've got a problem with
with not taking this back to some of my people so senator do i hear a motion in there to i would put a motion to delay this i don't take lightly that something could happen between now and august meeting okay if you'll hold that
Speaker 80
44:14
we have a few more questions. Okay, thank you.
Representative Jim Dotson
Unverified
44:19
Representative Dodson. Thank you, Mr. Chair. So as I've been sitting here listening to this, tell me if I'm following this correctly. This this is not necessarily the rule it's based off of any problems that we're having with public health or safety within our restaurants in Arkansas right now. This simply was brought up because you're trying to update things to FDA guidelines from 2013 and you're doing this explicitly under your general
rulemaking authority that you have broad-based ability to make the rules is that it's kind of sum it up yes sir so this additional certification that will now be required by all restaurants in the state will be done by a third party not through the Department of Health. Yes sir. I kind of have a big problem with requiring small businesses to to jump through an additional hoop that's going
to cost them a couple hundred dollars a piece whether they're small food trucks or or anybody else just because I mean is there give me some other justification other than just because we six years later we haven't had any problems and now all of a sudden the state's ready to to come into compliance with a suggestion from the FDA that's not required by any law.
Speaker 70
45:51
If I may, and I think in reference to an earlier question
from the chair, there are guidance documents that FDA puts out along with their regs and I think we can get that to you. They have a lot of information in them about where the reasons why they do things and recommend things. And again these are guidance rules that they provide for the states and and we have to take up the mantle so to speak and see whether or not we can update it to those levels. But as far as specific studies
Speaker 148
46:25
and things I don't have that in front of me. But this is not based off of any federal requirement that we're supposed
Senator Missy Irvin
Unverified
46:40
to do? No sir. Okay. Senator Irvin thank you could you repeat how many
Speaker 153
46:47
cases have been reported we we had a question in public health from Senator Chesterfield about
Representative Dwight Tosh
Unverified
46:53
Hep A and her concerns about the food establishments that have had reports of Hep A there have been 380 reports at the last
time i checked i think in early june what time period is that since uh summer of 2018 though those that number may not be all uh food establishment related but i could get those broken down for you before the public health meeting on july
Senator Missy Irvin
Unverified
47:20
8th 8th at one so is that one year time i believe so yes 380 cases in
one year so i mean i guess i'm going to come in to say this is incredibly important public health issue 380 cases in one year is a big big deal
so i would i would beg to differ that the the comment is we haven't had any problems that's not an accurate statement there are problems and when somebody is a food worker who is cutting food and has hepatitis a and they bleed into the food and you eat that food you get that disease i mean i wanted to make sure that the folks understand this is a public health concern and safety issue and um and so i know we have dealt with it in our small little town of mountain
view several times and when you talk to the owners of the restaurants they want to make sure that those employees are trained and that there are safety in place because it protects them from being sued or anything else from people that are eating in their restaurants. So I guess 380 cases in one year is alarming to me. That does indicate that there is a problem in the state of Arkansas, in my perspective, just because I know how this can be communicable
disease. And I would also point out that in regards to Senator Johnson's questions, we did pass legislation it's kind of a farmer's market bill but that was back in 2011 so that non-profit organizations and places like that would not they would be excluded from rules and regulations if they're a boy scout troop that are baking brownies or and then it's a cottage food industry that that would be separate and apart because there's existing statute that excludes
them from this so that they don't have to produce their jams, jellies, brownies, et cetera, in certified kitchens. So this would not apply to that. But I, and I just wanted to repeat that we are going to be holding a public health committee meeting July 8th, and this is on the agenda. So I would invite anybody to come to that meeting for further information. But at this time, I am supportive of this rule, and I appreciate the work. And I would like to see the differences between 2009 and 2013
and what the differences are between those two because 2009 was 10 years ago. So clearly there's a lot that has changed in 10 years when it comes to testing. So I would like that additional
Speaker 153
50:04
information. We'd be happy to provide that. Thank
Speaker 87
50:10
you. Seat 72, who's down there in 72? Representative Tosh, you're recognized. thank
Representative Dwight Tosh
Unverified
50:17
you mr chair and i agree with the numbers that 380 is an alarming number in a calendar year
but i guess my question would be it's my understanding and i guess if you see if you've got any data on this but out of that 380 cases how many of those involved a chain restaurant were the rule that you're trying to implement here today where they already had a food certified manage your own duty. To me, I think this rule, as Senator Rice says, goes right to the heart of these mom-and-pop shops that are small, and I'm just curious how many of those have really
encountered these type of health issues out of, for example, this 300 cases in a year's time. So I guess my question would be what kind of impact as far as mom-and-pops have versus these chains where there's already a certified manager on duty where they've already had these regulations in place, and this is where these, I bet if we look at the statistics, most of these 380 cases occurred.
So what are we really accomplishing at this point by requiring the smaller venues to have a certified manager on duty other than requiring them to go online and pay $200? dollars can you address those statistics or how that would play out at the july 8th
meeting we're going to have a presentation on hep a and the the link to food establishments and we can provide all of that information that you asked for at that time um if if the committee would so indulge me
we can um the state agency can request to perhaps send this rule back to public health for being fleshed out further and we can answer all these questions in the public health committee and have Dr. Smith and Dr. Haslow talk about the link between food establishments and HEPA. Are you making a formal request to
Speaker 5
52:19
pull this down at this time then? Yes, we would ask that it
Representative Dwight Tosh
Unverified
52:23
be placed on the public health agenda on July 8th and we can get with Phil Price and get it placed on the agenda to have further discussion on the rule
Speaker 5
52:33
and how it interrelates. Okay, we're going to accept that request. The chair accepts that request. And if you'll, I
Speaker 171
52:50
questions. So let me ask a few more questions
Representative Lane Jean
Unverified
52:53
before we do that. Representative Gene. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would request that that July 8th that we have a map or something of where all these have located at. It seems to me maybe last summer, was there a restaurant or a convenience store in northeast Arkansas that had multiple hepatitis A flare-ups?
Representative Dwight Tosh
Unverified
53:15
Is my memory right? I would hate to test my memory on that also. So at the July 8th meeting, we can have all of the maps and all of
Representative Lane Jean
Unverified
53:24
the presentation ready. Well, that's the one that got the big press, I think,
Representative Dwight Tosh
Unverified
53:27
if I recall right. Right, right. There have been several restaurants all over the state, but it does seem to be in a wave. I know that in Kentucky they had 4,000 cases. 4,000? Yes. Wow. Okay.
Representative Lane Jean
Unverified
53:37
Well, if you would have that information, I'd appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Speaker 71
53:45
Senator Johnson, do you have a question? My comment to Representative Jean, I mean, it happened in Clay County. you know it came out of missouri and then went to green county and craighead county which is probably the greatest number because of population base but uh in your investigation i may or may not be able to be here for that meeting with public health in your investigation how many cases can be attributed to health health care worker food to the public i know the vaccinations have happened
But that transfer, HEPA, is more individual drug use, individual to individual, sharing of needles and things like that, blood transfer. How many cases can you attribute to a food worker, food to the public? We can get those statistics for
Speaker 173
54:44
you and have it all broken down as far as
Representative Dwight Tosh
Unverified
54:49
the evidence showing who is contracting this and how, as far as we know.
If you're not able to attend that July 8th meeting, I'll make sure that all the information, all the packet and presentation material is provided to the rules subcommittee also. Thank you.
Senator Terry Rice
Unverified
55:10
Senator Rice, do you have a question? I just have a follow-up on previous statements,
and I appreciate you pulling this since Public Health is going to hear it again, too. But let me just admonish what I'm hearing in the committee. They want some data, and I'm probably not going to be at that Public Health meeting.
They want some data that drives this. And I know it's
all well-intended and can have good results. But again, as a person that's in business, it's not the money. I spend thousands of dollars, and it's more time and documentation of bureaucracy that's well-intended than I do, and not in health issues that I do because they're trying to meet the federal guidelines.
I want stuff where the rubber meets the road, and we come with less cases. and again when you dissect this down from the national chains that's already done it and all is going to be interesting to look at but let's try to come up with less bureaucracy. I'd rather as a business owner be fined stiffly for not doing what I'm supposed
to do as far as safety and I know you're trying to do prevention but that that will be prevention than to do this hundreds of dollars and online third party and if you've ever dealt with third party people and you can't get them on the phone and they cancel you with the supplier that you're doing because you can't get the two together i call my supplier we're letting the third party handle it third party said we're doing it further for your supplier and you can't do business with them if we don't you don't realize how much of our day is taken by
that out of well-intended things that's what i that that's not meant at you i'm trying to get that across to bureaucracy it's the real world and we do want food safety and hopefully in your public health meeting you can get that out and
there'll be some good questions and i thank you for bringing it. Thank you, Mr. Chair, for indulging me.
Representative Jon S. Eubanks
Unverified
57:37
Representative Eubanks, do you have a question? Yeah, just a quick question about the certified manager. If it was just a small convenience store prepared chicken strips and hamburgers and such like that could the owner if they took the class would they qualify as being the the certified manager like I said before I was wondering if each shift had to have one or if as long as there was one on on staff I believe the way
Speaker 70
58:12
states do require the 24-hour if there is a 24-hour food service to have someone on duty at all times but the way we wrote this i believe it allows for the owner proprietor to be the certified person okay thank you representative love
Representative Fredrick J. Love
Unverified
58:34
you have a question thank you it's just a procedural question to the chair so if we if we pull this rule down and then miss you said that she's going to
bring it July 8th to to public health I mean I guess I'm trying to figure out what what procedurally are we trying to do are we trying to pass it through public health would it have to come back through to
rules I mean what what is what's going on now Jessica Sutton
Speaker 181
59:00
an administrator for the rules review section the rule would have to go back before the rules subcommittee so after public health meets in July we're gonna have a meeting in July so it would go back to rules in that month for review and approval we cannot delegate any
review and approval to the public health or public health
Representative Fredrick J. Love
Unverified
59:18
committee okay I was just trying to figure that out so I guess we're not going to be presenting the rule in
public health you just be presenting the information I was assuming I'm assuming that that's
Speaker 153
59:30
what you're saying mission public health has review powers and so they would review
Representative Dwight Tosh
Unverified
59:34
the rule I just want to make sure that it's fully fleshed out and all of the members questions are answered and because of the fact that we have our state health officer and our state epidemiologist speaking as to the Hep A issue on July 8th I wanted to make sure
that we present this food service establishment rule again for being fully fleshed out in public health and then making sure that you all have all the answers to your questions before we present it again in rules okay all right thank
Laura Shu
Unverified
59:59
you thank you mr. chair representative dotson do you
Representative Jim Dotson
Unverified
1:00:10
have a question yes thank you mr. chair um try to be brief here uh so i'm not a member of public health so i may or may not be able to uh get involved in
that discussion at that time but as far as since you're operating this rule this would be a new requirement based off federal guidelines do we not have some state guidelines in place already where I mean do we not have the health department I'd say here's the best practices this is the guideline for your restaurant to have one of these food certified managers already or is that something completely new
Speaker 70
1:00:47
we have for quite a few years recommend I'm sorry about out of order
but we have her quite a few years recommended some sort of food service manager training for all food service establishments and so I think an answer to your question is yes it is available it's something we make folks aware of if we can and we work closely with the Hospitality Association and again certify our people with this this effort so you do you actually certify them as well well we we have our people attend the training and they are certified as well is what I meant to say. Okay, thank you.
Senator Missy Irvin
Unverified
1:01:26
Senator Irvin, do you have a question? Yes, just to the chair, if you can, I'm not sure how you want to deal with this, but I don't want to have like a, we want to flesh this out in public health. I think that's a good suggestion and a good idea. I just don't want to go back to rules and regs in July with people that don't have their questions not answered still but they weren't able to attend the hearing so I don't want to get into a back-and-forth situation so do you how do you want to handle that as chair of the subcommittee do you want to send out
an invitation to all the members of the subcommittee to attend that meeting or do you want me to have mr. price work with your staff how do you want to do that just so that we give everybody the opportunity to come to the public health committee meeting but that is are we saying that's where we're going to flesh this out or is this committee
subcommittee wanting that to be repeated in this subcommittee with the
Speaker 126
1:02:28
testimony in public health yeah I understand the
question senator I said you ever were you waiting for
Senator Terry Rice
Unverified
1:02:39
a comment I would just say public health is uh live feed
now anybody interested this and you can go back and replay it correctly i'll remind everybody go back and watch it at midnight if you want to that that's the beauty of doing what the house did years ago you can you can be caught up on everything you want to be caught up on you may not be there to ask a question but that information is there
Speaker 126
1:03:04
so senator i assume you're irvin you're the chair of that subcommittee okay and oh public health
Speaker 5
1:03:15
okay well again i think people that want to access that information it is online you can watch it uh you can review it at your discretion and i would think it would after our public health if we pull it down today it'll go to public health and we'll bring it back up then here for review great and senator urban will send an invitation to everybody so everybody
is aware of that so everybody will have the information uh and if you could get that information to the chair uh maybe even before public health we can get the information out as a reminder also happy to do so
Speaker 87
1:03:58
okay at this time we will uh just you're pulling it down and we will
Speaker 174
1:04:06
bring it back up later thank you at this time we will move to item b on-site watershed rules and
Representative Dwight Tosh
Unverified
1:04:13
regulations thank you mr chair members of the committee on-site wastewater rules stated purpose is to establish the minimum standards for the design and construction of on-site wastewater septic systems and suitable soils We wanted to thank several individuals that provided their time to attend several stakeholder meetings in the drafting of this rule. We had external and internal experts to help us with the science update. We had professional soil classifiers and folks from the National Resources Conservation Service, state soil scientists,
and various members of the Department of Health personnel that worked on this rule. the rule revisions will benefit Arkansas by providing new loading charts that have been developed for low hydraulic conductivity soils and this will further expand our potential options for some challenging sites. Textural class updates are going to move low hydraulic conductivity to 40 percent clay from the current 35 percent clay. It also lowered recreational vehicle design usage flows to decrease system sizing for RV parks and we also updated our definitions to reflect current
soil science. We've received governor approval for this rule back in the summer of 2018. It went to the Board of Health in October of 2018. We had a public hearing on November of November 16th after a 30-day public comment period. We received written and oral responses and we provided a public comment report and summaries of the changes some changes were pursuant to the public comment and we provided the revised markup rule and the summary of those
changes to the ALC and if you have any further questions Terry Paul is here to answer any specifics members anyone have any questions then
Speaker 5
1:06:05
without objection this rule is reviewed and approved thank you sir okay next we're going to go
Speaker 6
1:06:17
the Department of Health pharmacy services and drug control for our third rule today
Representative Dwight Tosh
Unverified
1:06:25
we have an update to the controlled substances list and I have
Shane David is here with me from pharmacy services this proposed addition to the controlled substances lists add specific hallucinogenic substances to schedule one it also adds various synthetic cannabinoids to schedule six it also adds a specific drug dronabinol dronabinol and an oral solution to follow the DEA scheduling and into schedule two and Shane David in charge
of pharmacy services is here to answer any questions we did have a public hearing on January 16th of 2019 after public comment period and we received
Speaker 5
1:07:11
no public comments members anyone have any questions without questions without objection this rule is
Speaker 170
1:07:22
reviewed and approved okay moving along to the Department of Human Services Medical Services
Speaker 5
1:07:37
And if you would please introduce yourselves, and you
Representative Roger D. Lynch
Unverified
1:07:46
may begin. Thank you, Mr. Chair, members of the committee. I'm Isaac Lynham with the Office of Rules Promulgation
Speaker 195
1:07:53
at the Department of Human Services. Good morning. I'm Janet Mann. I'm
Representative Roger D. Lynch
Unverified
1:07:58
with the Division of Medical Services with DHS. Today we're bringing forward a state plan amendment to the Arkansas Medicaid state plan. The background of this is there was a 1993 federal district court consent decree that
required the Department of Human Services to work collaboratively with the Home Care Association to reassess the reimbursement rates for private duty nursing. And we were to meet periodically to look at the market forces and do a market analysis and adjust the rates accordingly. the consent decree states that they could be adjusted up or they could be adjusted down, depending on the market analysis. We have collaborated with them,
and the result of that is that we have raised the reimbursement rates for the private duty nursing, the registered nurses and registered nursing supervisory visits are going from $54 to $56 per hour, and the licensed practical nurse, the LPN services, are increasing from $37 to $38 per hour. There were no public comments received and we received approval from CMS on this state plan amendment. With that, I can take any questions?
Speaker 5
1:09:12
Just one, how long does it take to get CMS
Speaker 197
1:09:16
approval on something like this? Well, we submit it to them and they have a 90 day
Representative Roger D. Lynch
Unverified
1:09:23
window to approve things within 90 days. However, if they have significant questions and substantive questions, they can stop the clock, so to speak, and they'll, so that'll be a pause in that 90 days, it doesn't count toward that time period. And really, there isn't a regulatory limit on how long that can go on.
So it could go on for a good bit. We didn't have that in this case, but often it can go on for a very long time. But in most cases, that doesn't happen. In most cases, we get approval within 90 days. And during that 90 days,
Speaker 170
1:09:59
we speak to CMS. Does your analysis cover our surrounding states also, or is it just in-state?
Representative Roger D. Lynch
Unverified
1:10:19
It's a complicated analysis we've set out in the state plan amendment. We look at the Federal Bureau of Labor Statistics for Arkansas. We determine the employee benefit costs by using the skilled nursing facility cost reports. Overhead costs are calculated using the skilled nursing facility cost reports. And then we take into account travel time. I'm not sure if we take into account the surrounding
Speaker 195
1:10:48
states. We do look at surrounding states for certain ranges of costs,
but they do not go in the state plan amendment analysis that we submit to CMS. And I don't have them
Speaker 5
1:10:59
with me today. Okay, sure. I just had a question. Members, anyone have any questions on this? Without any questions, without objection, this rule is reviewed and approved.
Speaker 6
1:11:13
Thank you. Thank you. Next we have the Department of
Representative Roger D. Lynch
Unverified
1:11:41
Human Services, Youth Services. Thank you, Mr. Chair, this is a Division of Youth Services
operations manual. It's a new manual. I have with me Michael Crump and Kara Benka from the division and I'll
Speaker 201
1:11:53
let them introduce themselves. Kara Benka I'm assistant
Speaker 202
1:11:58
director of the division of youth services.
Representative Roger D. Lynch
Unverified
1:12:02
I'm Michael Crump I'm the director of the division of youth services. So during the act 781 process we repealed several outdated rules and DYS's rules needed to be updated at that time and so after we repealed those rules we are bringing this to as a
replacement if this is the operations manual for all of the facilities it covers all of the aspects of the operation such as administration and management the physical plant facility operations facility services and juvenile services they are we base the rule on the standards from the American correctional association and having these in place is necessary for the accreditation from that association so do we
Speaker 5
1:12:50
if we saved some money by repealing
and now we have an additional cost do you know
Speaker 197
1:12:58
what our savings were in repealing just curious I don't believe
Representative Roger D. Lynch
Unverified
1:13:03
well the only thing we weren't we don't calculate really a financial impact for this because the uh uh operations are still you know ongoing we never stop the operations uh there is a small um uh uh impact and that's just a cost of print posters on access to care that we place in the facilities i guess small is relative isn't it
Speaker 197
1:13:25
but ten thousand six hundred dollars that's a lot
Speaker 5
1:13:30
of money to me personally but you know i really appreciate what you're doing but if we're if we are repealing again we look at our red tape reduction and if we reduce the red tape without saving any money then we're really I think missing the mark so in the future you know if we come and maybe it might not necessarily be a financial impact but if we are repealing regs there should be a savings time or money or both so when we have
a cost increase without understanding whether we have a reduction I'd just be interested in that what that calculation is thank you members anyone else have any questions without question without objection this rule is reviewed and approved thank you very much thank you
Speaker 61
1:14:19
now we have the minority health commission if you
Speaker 5
1:14:38
would please introduce yourself and you may begin
Speaker 208
1:14:41
good morning committee Sharonda Love director for the Arkansas Minority Health Commission I bring to you this morning our bylaws for review and approval they previously had not been promulgated so we worked with the Attorney General's office to align them with our statute the governor's office has reviewed and approved them we did not receive any comments during the open comment period nor during our public meeting and I'm happy to take any questions from the
Speaker 5
1:15:12
committee members they won't have any questions without objection this rule is reviewed and approved thank you very much thank
Speaker 163
1:15:20
you and I have the Department of Parks and Tourism you
Speaker 5
1:15:42
If you would, please introduce yourselves, and you
Speaker 209
1:15:54
may begin. I'm Grady Spann, Director of Arkansas
Speaker 210
1:15:59
State Parks. Shea Lewis, Deputy Director of Arkansas
Speaker 209
1:16:03
State Parks. So what I bring before you are the fees and rates that we periodically review for our state parks, all 52 state parks across the state. Last rate increase was in 2017-2018, and we're still using those rates today.
The rate increase that you see today is mostly dealing with camping and lodging across our state park system. Part of the rate increase is that for the past two years, we've been absorbing the registration fee that our registration or reservation system has been charging us. and so we're now trying to recoup that fee as we move forward with our customers. Over 50% of our customers for lodging and camping come from out-of-state travelers,
and so that's kind of out-of-state money coming into Arkansas. We do comparable rates as we prepare this for you. We compare with private industry in the park areas, so like a park at Lake Ouachita will compare what other like facilities are charging so we don't want to undermine any of the private industry we want to stay competitive with them we don't want to undercharge but we don't want to overcharge either and we did do public comment and we received
no no public comment on this and I'll be open for any questions yes
Speaker 87
1:17:30
what percent can you break that down a percent increase? Most of it is
Speaker 209
1:17:38
going to be about five and a quarter percent on the lodging and camping but yeah it sounds like a lot but most of it is one dollar a night or two dollars a night depending on the type of facility that
Speaker 91
1:17:52
you're renting. And do we do comps with other states? I
Speaker 170
1:17:55
know we try to stay comparable to in-state. Are we looking at out-of-state? We do
Speaker 212
1:18:01
look at other states when that's relative for
Speaker 209
1:18:04
instance we rent a yurt for 65 a night and utah state parks rents them for 160 a night so you know that doesn't really that's not that's not comparable so when it's when it's applicable we do that yeah and neither is the view from
Speaker 5
1:18:21
ours ours is much better ours is much better i just came back from
Speaker 5
1:18:29
out there. I agree. I agree. And, you know, I guess there's also a fiscal
impact. If you were to undercut your cost to other businesses, we would be actually attracting business away from private industry. So having a level playing field is a good thing for both our parks and for our private industry. Would you agree with that? Yes, sir. I do
Speaker 209
1:18:52
agree. And some of our commissioners are in the hospitality industry and therefore you know they keep us we have to get this approved by our commission too and so those industry leaders also make sure
that we are not undercutting the private industry. Representative Vaught
Representative DeAnn Vaught
Unverified
1:19:12
do you have a question? Yes sir thank you Mr. Chair I noticed on here that you don't have ATVs but I do know because I've been very much blown up about it about y'all raising the fees on atvs so why is that not part of this is it something that we're trying to hide or is it not seriously not part of this or
Speaker 209
1:19:31
state parks don't have any atv charges okay all
Representative DeAnn Vaught
Unverified
1:19:34
right then you might want to inform the public of that
because uh or some people in some trail areas because those parks have raised the fees and it was the park that did it and so i know like in representative pilkington's area representative cap's area those areas have been they've been raised and they were told it was to that it was coming to y'all and that it would be to fix trails we we don't have any any properties with
Speaker 209
1:20:03
atv it's federal it's u.s forest service property thank you yes ma'am if we had rate if we had atvs it would
Speaker 5
1:20:13
be listed here. Any other questions? Without objection this rule is reviewed and approved. Thank you.
Speaker 219
1:20:24
Thank you, sir. The Arkansas Public Employees Retirement System is next. and if
Speaker 193
1:20:40
you would please introduce yourself and you may
Speaker 220
1:20:46
begin good morning i'm jay wills i'm the deputy director of apers seated to my left is jessica
middleton our lawyer she will present the
Speaker 222
1:20:55
rule good morning um the rule you have in front of today is just to establish the proof of age to get your retirement benefits from APERS we're expanding the rule to recognize the Arkansas enhanced security driver license and we had a public hearing on February 22nd and there were no comments from the public
Speaker 6
1:21:18
and this is a good thing offering easier access anybody have any questions members
Speaker 5
1:21:24
if not without objection this rule is
reviewed and approved thank you very much thank you
Speaker 174
1:21:31
and folks I guess that brings us to the end and we are adjourned thank you
Agenda
A. Call to Order.
B. Reports of the Executive Subcommittee.
C. Rules Filed Pursuant to Ark. Code Ann. § 10-3-309.
D. Adjournment.
Documents
Speakers
Speaker 1
Speaker 5
Speaker 4
Speaker 10
Speaker 11
Speaker 6
Speaker 13
Speaker 16
Speaker 17
Speaker 18
Speaker 22
Speaker 25
Speaker 26
Speaker 29
Speaker 35
Representative Jeff Wardlaw
Unverified
Speaker 40
Speaker 47
Senator Terry Rice
Unverified
Laura Shu
Unverified
Representative Dwight Tosh
Unverified
Speaker 68
Speaker 70
Speaker 72
Speaker 74
Representative Bruce Cozart
Unverified
Speaker 87
Representative Jon S. Eubanks
Unverified
Speaker 84
Chair
Unverified
Representative DeAnn Vaught
Unverified
Representative Fredrick J. Love
Unverified
Speaker 111
Speaker 128
Speaker 129
Speaker 71
Speaker 69
Speaker 80
Representative Jim Dotson
Unverified
Speaker 148
Senator Missy Irvin
Unverified
Speaker 153
Speaker 170
Speaker 171
Representative Lane Jean
Unverified
Speaker 173
Speaker 134
Speaker 181
Speaker 126
Speaker 174
Representative Roger D. Lynch
Unverified
Speaker 195
Speaker 197
Speaker 201
Speaker 202
Speaker 61
Speaker 208
Speaker 163
Speaker 209
Speaker 210
Speaker 91
Speaker 212
Speaker 219
Speaker 193
Speaker 220
Speaker 222