ALC-Game & Fish/State Police

The fairby would take their seats while we're getting around sender patent would you mind lead us in a word of prayer first place. We are we're glad you'll hear present you be in here we're going to get. We'll get started today first fall recognized my co chair center hill you got anything to say. Proud to see a good crowd here a day hopefully we can continue on get some good good work out of the state of arkansas. I think this is kind of comical but uhm. As i'm looking straight ahead I see a whole lot more people in this room to my left. Then I do marathon. It's been that way for most of my time here anyway first up I will recognize this better with the attorney general's office and if you are in your colleague would identify yourself for record will get started. Thank you mister chair alex bitten deputy attorney general. Don't jake up this deputy solicitor general. So what we have on. Your recount i'm sorry i'm send here in another world think you mr chair so we we've had a lot of really great and productive conversations legislators members of this committee a different stake holders. Um that have had an interest in this subject matter so after having the benefit of some of those discussions I wanted to mention two areas where we've had really great progress and we want to update our recommendations previously I noted to this body that are console law differed from federal law as it pertains to the federal gun free schools own act. Um our recommendation is to keep arkansas law as it currently stands which would allow citizens to carry in a school zone but change our console law to make it clear that generally you cannot carry into a school building or athletic facility or a similar structure. Are the inconsistency between better on state law will continue to exist in sight law but state law will not should not criminalize carrying in a schools that way your parents can constitutionally carry well in line to pick up their children and nobody will be criminalized at the state level for merely driving past a school through a schools out on their way to work well concealed carrying. Additionally we've had some productive conversations about the term journey under arkansas state law and we believe that no changes to journey are necessary and that are console more should remain the same in those aspects. Yeah. Additionally earned members of this committee asked about specifically constables and firearms from the last meeting and I believe the question was under arkansas law can constables carry firearms wherever a certified law enforcement officer can carry. So the brief answer is no under our consolidate currently they cannot a constable may only carry a firearm if he or she has the requisite certifications which would be your class certifications. Current law appears to contemplate the possibility of a constable serving without carrying a firearm and because the statutes that authorize a consider curious only if certain training has been received and that's arkansas code annotated fourteen fourteen. Thirteen fourteen. So there is no real recommendation that we're making about changes to the law but since you asked about the status of the wall and wanted to to bring that back to the the body and answer that direct question. Certainly if there's an appetite to change that we would be happy to assist in the drafting of that. The. And. Additionally there were questions about court rooms versus courthouses and I believe the question was under arkansas code annotated five seventy three three o six does the license exception apply to a court house and the surrounding areas or other areas that are being used like a courthouse. So under five seventy three three oh six subsection five that applies that exam exception license exception applies to any courthouse courthouse annex or other building owned least or regularly used by a county for conducting court proceedings or housing a county office. So this applies to both buildings that are specifically designated as courthouses as well as other buildings that are simply used for court proceedings. But the next subsection subsection six simply says quote any courtroom and so that means that regardless of who his license to carry in the court house or in ex area they are not allowed to carry in the courtroom unless the judge allows them to so that's the the current picture of arkansas we stay here today. And that concludes my follow up from the outstanding issues from last meeting okay we have a couple of questions real quick. Center boy irrecognized thank you mister chair so thank you for the follow up on that the constable so the way I understand it is there are limitation would I understand from your response is there are limitations and where the constables could carry firearms versus a certified law enforcement officer correct. Yes so that's correct okay so the fall up to that thing is it's minor standing that not all sheriffs who would be a constitutional officer have to be certified law enforcement would they also be limited like the constables in that they're not certified. Law enforcement officers as well or would it not apply because sheriffs somehow fit into the definition another way. That is a a great question center point i'd be happy to to find that answer that direct question in a follow up either directly in both to the committee that I can get a quick turn on time okay and and just for photos me to say senator board to repeat that your last question yes are so my question was something along the lines of constables can night carry all the places that are certified law enforcement officer can so I share of who is not a certified law enforcement officer but happens to reside in the office of county sheriff could hear she carry in all the same places as a certified law enforcement officer or just like the constables here she might be limited in the places here she can can carry. Does that make sense mr chair okay so it just followed quickly not a waste of committee's time but I would be interested in and drafting legislation so we can talk about that offline thank you i'd be happy to prepare a memo to that effect thank you so much. Ok representing those you're recognized for question thank you bob here to left counselor as you probably know we had an answer then in jones were over the weekend we had i'd like three people were shot and killed and several more or injured and about question is as the property owners to allow for arms at those premises and i've been contacted by city officials there so i'm trying to seek an answer to their question is that this was an advanced center that had been I can't read it out by the owner and obviously that we're going to there and probably alcohol or whatever is there any responsibility to the owner of that property there lies with that owner in regards if something like this what happened in jones berlin are they held accountable in any way for the actions of the people that they renewed it to. Representative I would want to probably disguise oh and get more grainer on the facts regarding ownership it with a signage was posted I would be hesitant to open without more fax that that may be on point umm if you will allow I would be happy to circle up with you and and provide some some color in in some background on that. Can I appreciate that that sounds great and a problem should it contact you to before the meeting but at least new this would open the door for us to have further conversation in regards to this matter so you look forward to visiting with you thank you so much. Represent waldron george recognized for question. Thank you miss chair pay outs to you right over here I wanted to kind of follow up on senator boyd's question in relation to his question towards cost what about juvenile officers where do they fall in terms of their ability to carry without being certified officers. I apologize so I don't have the research prepared for anything other than a constable today but I will add that to the list are in the memo for senator boyd will I am at sheriff and juvenile officers say to me is there thank you mischief you bet. The. And real quick members just. The soul heads up in this is nothing against representative wildridge at all but we can I mean the ages office has been working on certain language in certain points so they may not be prepared but I know they're. I will speak for your office but i'm sure you all are happy to follow up a later offline with any any member who has questions that are not covered today. Senator patent your recognized thank you mister chair and I appreciate the analysis on the schools on interpretation you started off by talking about it in the realms of constitutional carry but as wrapped up your remarks you. You said conceal carry but. Just for clarification I mean all that would apply to concealed around concealed unlicensed yes there will be no delivery issue between the two thank you mr chair. All right see no further questions we uh. Appreciate your presentation on this. Up next we will have this jen for crown with BLR. If she would come to the table and I will remind the committee that BLR is presenting a summary of the laws to us but as you know they cannot provide opinions or interpretation of laws if you have a question that requires a response regarding the interpretation or application of the law I will direct your question to the representatives from the attorney general's office who are here for that purpose. Yeah. The. Good afternoon. Thank you mister for your recognized go ahead. Thank you representative miller. Today will be covering. Well first let me introduce myself i'm jennifer crime I am a legislative attorney with the bureau and I am assigned to this committee as well as the judiciary committee i've been asked to prepare summaries of arkansas law specifically statutes their reference firearms and so that there's a binder divided into categories and today's category that will be covering or the possession and general use statutes. And so the first section if you will reference your exhibit e one the first section of statutes that will be talking about is in five seventy three one oh wine and following and that is the section of the arkansas code that deals with possession and use generally. And so the first section includes several definitions that apply throughout the weapons chapter and these definitions also apply to the concealed carrier subchapter that we talked about a couple of months ago and they applied to this subchapter as well and so you can see all the various terms there that are defined in five seventy three one oh one and if you'd like to read the specific definition then you can look in your exhibit e two where the statutes. Or contained. Five seventy three one oh two deals with possessing an instrument of crime it provides a possessing an instrument of crime with the purpose to employ it criminally as a class a misdemeanor. First seventy three one of three deals with possession of firearms by certain persons. This state prohibits the possession of far arms by persons who have a prior felony conviction who have been a judicated minimally ill or who have been involuntarily committed to a mental institution. And it provides if the right to possess a firearm maybe restored by the governor. Five seventy three one of four deals with the criminal use of prohibited weapons. In this statute prohibits the use possession making repairing selling or dealing of a bomb metal neckles or other implement for the infliction of serious physical injury or death that serves no lawful purpose. Five seventy three one oh five deals with the legitimate manufacturer repair and transportation of prohibitive our arms and it provides that the previous statue does not apply to the armed forces or a law enforcement agency. Five seventy three one oh six defacing a firearm prohibits the removal defacing marine covering altering or destruction of the manufacturers serial number on a far arm. Five seventy three one oh seven possession of a defaced bar arm prohibits the knowing possession of a defaced far arm unless the person reports the deface far armed to law enforcement or if the farm was manufactured prior to nineteen sixty eight. Five seventy three one oh eight criminal acts involving explosives this statue prohibits the sale possession manufacturer and transfer. I've explosive materials or destructive devices. When the person either intends to use those materials to commit an affairs or knows or reasonably should know that another person intends to commit an efforts. It also prohibits the distribution of explosive material to a person who has a fellow and a fugitive or other similar criteria. Finally a prohibits the possession of a stolen explosive material and the unlawful rec of same. This. Five seventy three one oh nine furnishing a deadly weapon to a monitor establishes a penalty ranging from a class a misdemeanor to a class be felony for providing a deadly weapon to a manner without the consent of the monitor's parent or guardian. Five seventy three one ten disarming monitors and mentally defective or mentally irresponsible persons. This state you provides their five seventy three one oh one to one oh nine do not prohibit a long forcement officer from disarming without a rest a month or a person who reasonably appears to be mentally defective or otherwise mentally irresponsible. When that person is in possession of a deadly weapon the statute further provides that the property seized under this section may be held for seventy two hours and then returned to the owner or the parent or guardian if a monitor if that person made the unlawfully possessed the property. Fab seventy three one eleven and lawful procurement of a far arm. This statute includes additional definitions. And it provides that a person comments the offense of unlawful procurement of a far arm by persuading a person to transfer a far arm or ammunition under unlawful circumstances or about providing fraudulent information. Five seventy three one twelve certification by a law enforcement officer regarding receipt or manufacturer of a firearm again there are additional definitions included here. The statute requires the chief law enforcement officer in a jurisdiction within fifteen days ever request to provide certification when required for the transfer of a firearm. So long as the recipient is not prohibited by law from receiving or possessing a far. And if there is a denial the statue requires notice and a write to appeal. Five seventy three one nineteen hand guns possession by money or possession on school property. Subsection a of the start to you prohibits the possession of a hand gun by monitors and eighteen years of age. Subsection b prohibits the possession of a hand gun on k through twelve score property a school bus or at a designated school but stop. Subsection c prohibits the possession of a handgun on a public or private institution of how education accept as provided in five seventy three three twenty two and that's the enhanced consilery statute that we talked about the last time. Subsection d. Provides a definition for hand gun subsection e sets out numerous exceptions to these prohibitions I won't list them all the the journey is is the big one that you talk about a light so that's where. That exception is contained. Five seventy three one twenty carrying a weapon subsection a provides that a person commits the offense of carrying a weapon if here she possesses a handgun knife or club honor about her per his or her person in a vehicle or otherwise readily available for use with the purpose to attempt to unlawfully employee the weapon against a person. Again there are additional definitions here. And a person is presumed to have a lawful purpose if they're in their own home if there are law enforcement officer there a few other exceptions. Five seventy three one twenty two carrying a firearm in a publicly owned building or facility. We actually covered this statute when we talked about the conceal carry statutes because it's so intertwined with several of those so won't cover it again today but you can see the summary there. Five seventy three one twenty four tier gas pepper spray the statue prohibits tear grass and pepper spray except for containers of three hundred millions or less carried for the purpose of self defence. Five seventy three one twenty five interstate sale and purchase of shock ends rifles and ammunition the statute provides that sales of shot guns rifles and ammunition across state lines are governed by the federal game control act of nineteen sixty eight. Five seventy three one twenty six bb traps the statue prohibits baby traps and the definition in the statute is at set out their devices designed to cause death or serious physical injury to a person. Five seventy three one twenty eight offenses upon property of public schools. Provides at a court so notify the department of finance and administration the driving privileges are to be suspended after a person less than nineteen years of ages fell guilty of certain criminal offences involving firearms that take place on the property of a public school or school best. Five seventy three one twenty nine furnishing a hand gun or a prohibited weapon to a felon the statute prohibits providing a hand gun bomb metal locals to face firearm or other deadly weapon to a convicted felon. Five seventy three one thirty certain forfeit sure a far arms and motor vehicles this statute provides it a firearm shall be seized from a person younger than eighteen years of age who was unlawfully in possession and the farm shall be forfeited upon conviction of an offence and also the same thing for a motor vehicle if. A motor vehicle is involved in the incident. And then the statute is is very long I didn't include everything in the summary but it sets out all of the procedures for the seizure in the four fiction including what should be contained in the petition file by the prosecutor and the factors to be considered by the core the burden approved. And then what should happen to the property upon disposition. About seventy three one thirty one possession or use of weapons by incarcerated persons the statue prohibits the use possession making selling or other dealing without approval of custom custodial authority of any weapon. Buy an incarcerate in person. Five seventy three one thirty two sale rental or transfer of firearm to person prohibited from possessing far arms. This statute prohibits the sale rental or transfer of a far arm to a person who's prohibited from possessing one. Five seventy three one thirty three possession of a taser stand gun prohibits a person eighteen years of age or under from purchasing a taser stand gun or also prevents anyone from selling wine to a person and eighteen or enter. Five seventy three two oh one this is a new subchapter. Earn our next subchapter is not new but this is at what we call the uniform machine and act. And I won't go into the full history but you may not then this act was enacted but in our console in nineteen thirty five and it was evidently intended at the time to be a uniform act to be joined with other states but over time it it didn't it wasn't fully adopted as a uniform act it's no longer recognized at by the uniform law commission as a uniform and arkansas and only three or four other states and still have parts of this law remaining in effect. Two and one the first section that sets out the total of the act two o two contains several definitions to go through uniformity of interpretation like ms uniform acts this section provides that the chapter shall be interpreted so as to affection its general purpose to make uniform the law of those states which enact it. Two oh four possession or use for offensive or aggressive purposes lawful prohibits the possession or use of a machine gan for an offensive or aggressive purpose. With a mandatory penalty of at least ten years imprisonment. Two oh five presumption of offensive or aggressive purpose. This statute provides the possession of a machine gun is presumed to be for an offensive or aggressive purpose when it is at a premises that is not the person's home or business when the person is and naturalized foreign born or has been convicted of a crime of violence. Or when there are empty shells founded that immediate immediate vicinity of the gun. The presumption does not apply to a machine gun that is registered to a corporation under the national firearms act or the dent control act of nineteen sixty eight. Or two again that's been used to test ammunition. Five seventy three two oh six evidence of possession or use the presence of a machine gun in any room boat or vehicle as evidence of the possession or use of the machine going back each person occupying the room boat. Five seventy three two oh seven many factor for military non aggressive are non offensive use. This. Subchapter does not prohibit the manufacturer and sell of machine guns to the military. Or political subdivisions. It also does not prohibit the possession of a machine gun for scientific purposes one that is not usable as a weapon and kept as a keep sake or the possession of the machine going that uses cartridges other than thirty or larger caliber. Five seventy three two oh eight registration by many factors. Requires machine gun many factors to keep a register identifying all machine gens manufacturer by model and serial number date of manufacturer and. And the name and address of the person who received the machine and. Five seventy three two eleven perpetrating or attempting crime provides a possession or use of a machine gun in the course of a criminal offense is a class a felony. And the next section is the property owners right to allow fire arms act. At sixteen one twenty twelve one and following. And this was an act there was just passed in the resent twenty twenty three legislative session and says relatively new it's the property owners wrote to allow for arms act the purpose is to provide. A to protect a property owner from civil liability if here see allows a non employee to carry far arms on to the property. Twelve oh three sets out several definitions. Twelve oh four provides protection from civil liability the section provides that absent intentional or reckless conduct by the property owner a property owner is not liable for damage injury or death that results from a non employee using a loaded vir arm on or near the property. Sixteen one twenty twelve oh five sets out exceptions provides that a property owner may prohibit an individual from carrying a loaded vir arm and remain protected under this. Chapter if the individual is prohibited from carrying a firearm and five seventy three one oh three. If the individual has a history of criminal offences. If they're a monitor if they're consuming alcohol and other circumstances. At listed in that section. And then we have a few miscellaneous at sections that are included today six five fallo two is in the education at total and so we may cover that again later when we we talk more about schools but it does deal with a possession and so I wanted to include it in today's category. But it provides it a person who is a civil war reinactor at may carry an unloaded civil war error weapon on school property for educational purposes with approval of school officials. Eleven five one seventeen deals with possession of a far arm in a private employer parking live there are some definitions in this section parking light is defined in this section provides at a private employer so i'm not prohibited employees from leaving firearms in their locked vehicles in the parking lot so as long as the employee lawfully possesses the firearm and stores it out of sight. And then lastly we have the arkansas constitutional provision protecting the right to bear arms that's article two section father the arkansas constitution which provides that the citizens of the state have the right to keep in bear arms for their common defense. And that concludes my summary. Thank you for professional force mismitten would you go over the uniform machine gun act where we're at on that yes mr chaired and thank you so on the uniform machine gun act. We don't have the ages office does not have a recommendation today but there is currently pending in the united states supreme court occase involving the interpretation and the of the federal definition of machine gun and that's in the national firearms act citation is twenty six usc fifty eight forty five b. That case garland be cargo is about whether a firearm equipped with bump stark is a machine gun under federal law. Err the definition in arkansas law of machine gone codified at five seventy three to two subsection two is a different definition so we recommend waiting to see what the supreme court is going to say in that case about the federal definition of machine gun into a sass whether or any changes are necessary at that time as it pretends to arkansas law and we expect a decision june july maybe and at the first meeting of this subcommittee I also flagged out of a similar situation with the rehemie case so i'll be suitable to bring both of these cases back up once we have a decision from the s. Thank you very much. At this time. If we have any questions from the. From the members would just remind you all that. If you have a question regarding the interpretation or application of any of these codes or laws will direct that to the ages representatives but do we have any questions from committee. Representative of law you're recorders thank you mister chairman has been at a question regarding the I guess it was it's nineteen thirty four by congress made the uh mission guns illegal. Set nineteen thirty four. I am not sure the passage of the other federal I just make sure he works on the same page I was wondering because you can refer to money ago what what their federal definition currently is before this challenge come up with supreme court. If you don't address that i'd appreciate it. Am I can find that if you will give me one moment I can pull that up. The. Alright i've got it pulled up. And I will prefer to swith i'm doing a little bit of google lawyering at the moment and I do not have my westla account to confirm that this is the current definition but so without caveat to the term machine gun means any weapon which shoots is designed to shoot or can be readily restored to shoot automatically more than one shot without manual reloading by a single function of the trigger. The termshall also include the framer receiver of any such weapon any part designed and intended solely and exclusively or combination of parts designed and intended for use and converting a weapon into a machine again and any combination of parts from which machine can can be assembled if such parts are in the possession or under the control of a person. The. Represent richardson you're recognized for question thank you so just thank you for being here it's a it's good information II just want to be clear on the I guess it's five seventy three two oh one and following it's my understanding based on what I saw here that this only applies to and it's a uniform. A machine gone act it's only applies to caliber weapons thirty and above is that correct. Yeah I think that's right in section two or seven it does have a caveat for weapons that are not thirty calibor or above that having them for a non aggressive purposes is not prohibited by the statute okay. Thank you. All right. Yeah. Sender payment your recounts thank you mister chair so a manner of eighteen years of age can they possess a long gun or is it just a handgun that they're not allowed to possess her. You're correct so they may possess set and long going it's a hand gun that they're currently and architel are prohibited from possessing around thank you thank you mister chair. Thank you seeing no further questions we appreciate the presentation per state shall be in here. Yellow a believe. Your dismiss miss ben your recognize thank you mister chair i'm sorry fault when i. The cognism of the committee's time I believe there's only one recommendation that we would make to this committee today and that is on five seventy three one oh three so if you are on your exhibit e one today. That is the third one on a statute that is sitted on page one of exhibit e one. And so under arkansas code annotated five seventy three one oh three a three. A person who has ever been involuntarily committed to any mental institution shall not possess or own a firearm and under the statute there's no path to regain gun rights if you've ever been involuntarily committed even for a few days to a mental institution. And so we recommend crafting some sort of mechanism or procedure where and someone who has lost their gun rights may reobtain them once more and we don't have any recommendations as to the specifics today but wanted to flag that through the committees work okay all right thank you very much I appreciate senator hill. I recommend this for further study on past seventy three one o three. Recommendation is. We need a second. I'll prove they are okay. Very good recommendation motion passed thank you. Thank you miss bent representative. Yeah. At this time. We will have additional information if they have any provider by also state police. We appreciate that. Game in fish. The. Thank you sir chiefs of police association. Very representatives of them here. Seeing no prosecutor coordinator's office. Yeah. Thank you thank you for being here shares association. Department of transportation. Yeah. Okay thank you at this point we are at the public comment to our meeting. I would like to I would like to remind you. I'd like to remind you that. The topic for it today's meaning I was a possession and open carry laws you'll be permitted to provide public comments on the topic we are covering today as well as own previous. Meeting topics as we go forward over the next several months we'll take up different different topic each month and you may provide comments on those topics at that time so we just really want to keep our public comment based on what we've discussed today are we have discussed previously. At that time. Would recognize. Mr chris corbett. The. The. Thank you for the time to be here good afternoon my name's chris corbett and my license attorney and I want to thank you for them the legislators the government agents being here and welcome to the citizens that are here I have litigated some gun cases and in the recent few minutes i've actually had a time to renew mine concealed handgun license by enhanced concealed handgun license and would like to do is give you. Birds are view of what we're talking about here and then get down to some some trees in the forest with regard specifically to. A statute in the rule that applies to no license fees to veterans. The. And what i'm gonna conclude with is that veterans don't get that waiver. In the application process through the arkansas day police so what i'd like to do is arm you with some questions to. The government agents so we hear that required me have a permit to exercise my constitutional right to be arms so this begin with our baseline archaeology constitutional article two section five. The citizens of the state have a right to keep in their arms for their common defense and now let's look at those infringements that this application fee that is passed in the code and then and put the rules a completed application what the heck does that have to do with the constitution it says that have the right to bear on without it but i've got a complete application that's a problem a non affordable fee. The horse all state police since twenty seventeen has collected fourteen million dollars. Of our consultant citizens money. Two exercise their second memory fourteen million dollars I would kill to have a business that made fourteen mean bucks sent twenty seventeen must go to the next the next little rule and statute here. A waiver i'm going to give a waiver to the archaeology please from my medical comma criminal or other records other records concerning the application. The constitution didn't say that. A digital photograph you've already got my state driver's license right I trade the a trader a driver's license to drive on the public roads that you find but I also have to public a public card with my picture on it with the right to bear on constitution didn't say that. It's good down to our search of my fingerprints but the appropriate ends that's what typically happened when you get charged with the crime they take your fragrance and search your fingerprints. The. I'm not a criminal. Notice the sent to the local county share from public chief of your county residents the constitution didn't say that I get the right to bear arms if you send a notice to the sheriff. That I have a gun. And now let's go down a little more granular basically me some up with that the whole every one of these rules and regulations are constitutional. Cause the right direct barons shall not be infringed with given you've given the gun is given about an inch and a government's taken a mile more than that and now the application fee that's codified in our state code during let me read this to you the application procedure caught if I knock so could annotated five seventy three three eleven the advocate for license to carry conceal home gun shell submit the fallen the archaeology police a completed application a non refundable license fee. Then there's an exception here and this is pretty clear this is clear as a bell. Are code five seventy three three level b one there is no license fee if the applicant is the united states armed forces veteran or currently serving in the united states armed forces period now in my area our application feels a renewal I for you the archaeology police and said hey it's renewal my feet they said that then apply to renewal applications that's as absurd. The law says no license fee period now there's in there is a in the loss of something the cost to be born for searching the fingerprints. You can do that privately you go and take your fingerprints and. Takes a while to get an appointment and then you submit your fingerprints they've claimed that there's a cost for them to for that well I think that cost needs to be born by the government if you're going to put together an application fee but I paid fifty bucks and then you're going to go and search my fingerprints in that what the arts of state police does anyways they claim that there is a a federal fee to do that federal fee that they pay I haven't seen that I asked for and haven't seen it also for you. Do you have any records of all fees waived for veterans i'm a veteran. And they didn't have that type of granular information what's interesting and this should be of concern to you is when you go online to do this I want you to do it online they direct you to do it online there's one length in there that says the military instructions is to go online with you go online if you walk through that portal there's a question that's required to be answered yes are you a veteran yes or no now being a programmer back in the day that'd be simple in to take care of but it takes you directly to the paywall the pay walls are you submit your credit card and you pay my heart in money to the government so the questions here today that I think you'll be concerned about is. The application fee for veterans and then whether or not the application fees waived if it's a renewal because the law says I just read it to you the law says there is no license fee period. And I think you'll go more power task questions that the government agents sit in here behind me and to get an answer that and are still specifically what i'd like to conclude with is the fees are outrageous. There are a lot of money and or tailor the story about that I got my first concealed handgun back in the lines when I was in law school had an extra twenty bucks a week I was a state highway important state how we are employee getting my experience as a civil engineer I didn't have the fifty bucks to renew the license I didn't even know as a better and I can have it waived and that was actually renewal but i'm at that time fifty books was a lot of money so fifty bucks is a lot of money to lotter citizens or an earned paycheck and so what i'm asking is you need to take these rules and not bother monitor did not vote you take them back and sit down back to or ask or exhaust a police what in the head kind of procedure of your god when the website says go online in philip and if you walk through it right now we can do it five minutes takes you straight to the paywal even after you answer the question am I better yes or no. So anyways like to conclude they have getting questions i'd love to. Thank you. Serve clear couple things up for number appreciates you being here and in providing your comment bringing the start attention that's while we're meeting today we're having these meetings every month we want to we want to clear up a lot of stuff in and make things better for citizens of arkansas and we're not voting to sell you and the rest of the public knows we're not voting on anything today as far as rural packages are lost or whatever but we do appreciate your input thank you and that's something I know i've seen several members brought this down and have no doubt that will be addressed down the road this is how our system is supposed to work to be appreciated to be right on thank you thank you they sir the way excuse me so senator us your recognized for questions yeah add a. Do mr corb appreciate it again i'll public been able to test fire we'll give you up to a dealer we can't sort in lay it on if I made a mistake to hit me with it you said. In a little sat I would kill for fourteen million withdrawal you'll have that public to just yes figuratively thank you for that clear occasion which court I can be viewed as a threat. We have we have one more question if you guys are center johnson your recognized thank you mister. Mister corbett welcome mischairman he is my constitution on proud of the I guess in I agree with you that tuesday is a little better but that plea please understand it we're dealing with this whole process in this is too lay out all the counts of questions. In adv in a longer timeline than we would have in a general session where we're and you bend to them you know how they work and the assert led being in legislature that watch like drinking from a firehome true so we want to get this right and i'm grateful for your testimony for that reason a and i'm hoping that since you're you have testified things related to existing law. And the existing website which websites can be fixed without statutory intervention and I certainly would and I don't even ask to call state police i'll just trust that they can address that without us having to instruct them specifically to do so I don't think there's any mentioned of programming background we know that person that the rats at software is not always a person that completely understands that new answers and statutes are hopefully you know the good folks at state police in their programmer can get together and clear that up because there may be some documentation a evidence of an honourable discharge or something like that that would clear from there but I agree that that we don't we shouldn't put in the la that a better and doesn't have to pay the fee and then have send them as you said the click tax you through the place I was anyway but thank you for coming in that please continue if you have other ideas that can be shared with this committee in the journal assembly as this is a long delivery process as you can tell and I have learned a lot just by tending these meetings in alcohol hopefully continued do so thank you mister thank you. Thank you sir thank you. Next up we signed up to speak as mislead her. Thank you ma'am and also signed up to speak mr robert steinberg. Hopefully i'm. So that correctly. You would please identify yourself for the record sir. Thank you sure my name is robert standback i'm a law professor on a columnist for the democrat gazette I appear in my personal capacity i'm a practicing attorney as well I have only four points to raise are they all respond to comments from the attorney general's office two points or critical two points or smaller none of which should take very long the first issue that i'd like to raise with you is that the attorney general state the chinese general office stated regarding the law for carrying a gun inside a courthouse said that there is an odd comma displacement that statement is fault. The law read that there are four categories of people that can carry guns in courthouses it is officers of the court law enforcement officers bailiffs. And also anybody else at the court approved stuff specifically. John doe we're going to give you a special permission. Now that law wasn't written by accident was written by this legislature side by the governor bob balancer took the lead on that as a recall in he well knows the purpose of the law it is as I described for separate categories officers of the court law enforcement officers bailers. And other people approved by the court to terry and what do tony general office said my arm on this issue was a will you see that approval. That applies to all of those categories everybody needs specific provo from the left is judges in policy county and elsewhere. And so why don't we strike that language about offices of the court law enforcement officers and bailers would you say approval by the court that's exactly the opposite of what the losses don't take my word for it don't take bob balance word for it this case already went to the state supreme court and every conservative justice on the court agreed with what I just said. At that point however the court was a minority conservative and a majority liberal that has now switched. That case was dismissed by the majority liberals for procedural reasons not subsidiaries to every consurer justice on the court agrees with what I just told you in the attorney general's office told you exactly the opposite. Now it's one thing for the attorney general's office to come in here and say you know what we don't want expanded gun right. We're no different in practice than dustin mcdaniel was we just continue that venture of constraining our canton's gun right but that's now what they told you they told you that this was a type of this is no type of this is the law the law should remain by the way that they're sort of follow one to that case is also now pending in the supreme court. So it's not undermine our gun rights by an acting a law that any one of the prior attorney generals irrespect of a party would have wanted to an at. The. The second point also. No ambiguity the the journey general's office again said oh well you see it on university campuses now with the enhanced consider carry license which was originally called campus carry arm but it covers much more than campuses of course you can carry guns on campus you might recall when this law again charlie collins from northwest is the one who had pushed it I think it took three sessions to pass it I testified I believe in favor of every one the first session in which it passed a folks who were anti gone folks when listed let the presidents were the chance was of the universities have you know make the final say have a veto over. Totally thought that effort was made in good faith until every chancellor and president said no guns are law allowed on campus so we had a campus terry law that allowed precisely no one to carry on campus so we moved forward right in the most recent iteration of that law allows people with enhanced can see your career licensees to carry on campuses in every a location except something like a termination hearing put that aside that that's okay I mean I don't have a comment on that one where the other and sporting events why because the n c double a set. They said you can't have comply with nc rules unless you prohibit guts so the school serve okay we'll do that will require a police file staples filed plan that delineates what you know security protocols. Well more recently we had a mister corb mister corbett when wanted to go into the arena in john's borrow too what when there was an event that was not a sporting event well guess what they put up a sign and they said no guns allowed what I do resporting event and they said no guns are what was your explanation what we want to share of alcohol and we rented that that concession out to a private club yes. We're all in here if you can tony download that's that's my new york coming out I apologize for step back a little bit you can keep talking just to indicate no no it's a fair comment my students tell me the same thing so so here's what the attorney general's officer well you know if you want to serve alcohol in an arena we should like to school prevent you from carrying a gun why because abc you know the folks that have the regs regarding alcohol abc says if you serve alcohol you've got to prohibit people with gut. So they've turned along at head we have a gun right pursuing the campus carry but because there are some ABC reg that says those folks are sort of alcohol may lose their license. The gun owner should give up their rights now either you shouldn't serve alcohol or here I dear say it maybe abc should change a reds and if they don't want to you guys can make him do so right that's not very complicated but there is no prohibit prohibition for going owners to carry guns anywhere on campus except during the sporting event in the ag wants to add to that to allow universities to foreclose your gun right i'm pro gun right if it hasn't been clear ready this proposed of the second proposal by the attorney general's office is anti gun right it's fine to be a guy done right just don't hide the ball. Only two more and those are the smaller issues. The. The. One the attorney general's office said that you might you know likely that the language in statement is slightly different for those without a gun license of any store the state law is different than federal law for being around the schools. And the attorney general's office at two copy the federal law which is more punitive than the state law senator stubblefield asked when that was brought up last time why would we want to join hands with the federal government among brother represent representative gaza way seconded this concern also I have never looked for the fell to the federal government for guidance on arkansas state law as I mentioned during my talk or I should say screaming earlier i'm originally from new york new york looks to the federal government on things to do arkansas does not in generally should not and finally the last point that I would like to raise is um so take for example if a licensee goes into a building I can see a carry licensee goes into a building and the building has a sign up a private building that's permitted as a sign up says no guns are out and currently the law says well if a license he does that that's a violation of the license rules and you can have the license revoked it is not that it must be revoked by the staples folks that it may be revolt by the state police fox in the age says let's give them more let's allow a penalty five hundred hours a thousand dollars i'm not looking for more penalties i'm looking for fewer penalties if the person enters that property in contravention of that sign. The best remedy is that that the landlord is permitted to what's called transparency the owner say you violated the rules and if you come on again we can call the police and that's a criminal trust pass because it been put on notice let's not have penalties to our gun laws we should be pro gun I am that all I have for my presentation of course i'm available if you have any questions. Seeing no questions from the committee we we appreciate your up what do we have one. Now sorry no worries thank you very much all right. Seeing no other business you have any other business. Seeing no other business we. Are about to adjourn the next meeting is scheduled for monday march twenty fifth two thousand twenty four at two PM to take up any recommendations regarding revisions through the forums you'll listen real quick this is this is a key point. We will take up revisions regarding the foreign laws related to possession and open carrier laws only members of the subcommittee will be permitted to make recommendations. If you have a proposed recommendation to preserve to the subcommittee please email a short summary of your proposal to ray terry stated here to my left our committee analysts but thursday march twenty first remembered these recommendations will not have full confidentiality as both chairs will see these recommendations proposed recommendations don't need to be detail this is just a starting point for the subcommittee to discuss to determine whether to explore the proposed revision further and have been begin the research and drafting process so we can anyway the main thing is habitan by the twenty first during the upcoming festival session our next meeting topic will be long forcement officers and other armed officers own june seventeenth three thousand twenty four at one pm in this room. If the public is interested in providing comments they can sign up online are in person before the june seventeenth meeting our rules is that folks have to be signed up before the meeting