Arkansas Legislative Recidivism Reduction Task Force

Self I think this may be since you're the first meeting with us on behalf of the board I believe yes sir thomas burns attorney for the border corrections great glad to have you thanks for being here are seen a core members I would ask for a review and adoption of the minutes so i'll entertain a motion motion of the second second home favor say I motion carriers thank you seen as how much partner in crime has so arrived do you have any comments we will re- begin center tucker alright thank you for joining us alright I think we will get right into the discussion on a community supervision mister chick if you don't mind moving down at the end of the table if that's okay sorry I know you're sort of getting your papers square away there. I saw that that's why I should move joking of course yeah if you would get an entitle induced yourself for the record in then you may proceed with any opening remarks mounted common is that the chairs on becoming of the senate because he started on time there hello my name is jim chief i'm director division and community correction great if you would pull that mike little closer there if you don't mind or make sure we don't miss anything over. Is it on yes great yeah if you would proceed well I mean I ask in questions II mean I saw that on the jenna but no one said acted brazilian or really what do you need to know like I mean we have a yeah I think I think that would be a good place to start I think we've heard a lot of talk about vacancy rate as a relatesto staffing I don't think there'd be a great place for you guys are for you to start on that and then we'll open it up for questions or if you have anything else that you want to proceed with before we get to the question portion okay well currently we have a sixty nine thousand six hundred and forty eight offenders of those thirty eight thousand five are actually active. We are allowed it at this point in time five hundred and twenty five authorized positions we actually have four hundred and sixty three those field to sixty two or vacant now that is as of uh june as of july one that number will actually go down their numbers are going to go from five twenty five to five. Center chuck recognized is that probation and broker man yes sir they're also included in intensive supervision uh officers it includes arrow which institutional release officers sex offender offers re entry and special response to okay so that's going to ask because I think it was just just officers so that what you just went through that that's an inclusive number of pretty much all staff right where's not also I mean they didn't count counsel and there's just certified law enforcement okay we have so as far as like you mention counselors and others have any do you know those numbers often I don't have those now just looking at the office I mean we have fifteen hundred and forty five countend both divisions but i'll have to find that I mean we actually have in the field for treatment service okay do you have a breakdown of the five twenty five between perot probation and the other categories you mention will most of our officers are doing so it just depends on counties like plastic county as probational pro separated but some counties based on says they actually carry probation and pro case low so to pull it out there's no way you could really get an accurate account of what we do on probation or pro because but what else do the five twenty five include best problem probation officers that you mention which is properly should you have instance a main intention so vision program which we have fourteen ouchers around the state we have six implementation. Two and fourteen or two and bitten our sling county too in jersey county and then one each and white county and long county that's intense of supervision right and we have eighteen SR a special response to somewhere located with all those were in areas around the state those are the ones that pursue a huge as i've sconders and also if you notice like the guy that was added more often the other day that was that they actually go after anyone in arkansas actually the US marshal's office is in our billions they leave from us go to mr rally if you don't mind center mr rally you had a question yeah good i'll go hate jail yes he was acting you about community parallel office because II was working on something with that and I need to know that the role I have a breakdown of just the one just what probably probation in line rock you have just what wrong at the fire hundred you know you know you'll just have a minute though i'm trying to see how many are you sure in the parallel you know more numbers right now it were running is uh a prolossors will there some sender they're their community suit vision answers we don't inconsider on proprobation so i'll have twenty seven deal with okay a plastic account you have thirty five probational service in one is p after an area which is all pro you have thirty one i'll shares and for but we actually right now we've got thirty two of those field on the area savings and which is your probation area eight side there's twenty three field. So those are the only ones that are exclusively probationed pro all the other counties are other areas and staying our do they do and work that other wrong where I mean we actually have there may we go as for a while there's all kinds of case those we have we have six or six of inner specific case we have intentional supervision program which are just how risk offenders they only carry between thirty five and forty we try to keep our sex offenders below sixty they have a six friend of program we actually have also that in sos we have polygraph examiner CVS age which do voice stress and also the handle program shorter up medical how many worse than normal number of rollies that a corolla so to supervise should be about eighty I mean if you really want to an effective be there around fifty but what what we look at the number is eighty and now we're right now as one in any fave across the board is probation in perot so we try to keep for all a little bit less in probation if someone's doing on the case those bit. One and a five is a way the numbers come out now one tonight back yes sir which in some areas is going to be higher it's lower hard pensioner if the option we're where we have offers at all she's come back in we try to move on from areas of low need areas of handy that makes it but but you're saying that the average that they should be able to super bad lip out you know more wonder is this what the standards should be great and then over that standard yet they're not below that standard no sir that's that's it is thank you so just for clearly and then i'll go to mister mcclean to the case if you would circle back on that case load because that I just want to make sure I heard correctly you said it was one to how many wonder ninety five accordance of the numbers okay and that's odd is that on just pro is that we're all supervision that's across the board okay so if you have thirty five with isp then it made you go have more on other so some of them could be above a hundred on your case that okay you far yeah II think so so you have six friend of caseloader has sixteen you have is because slow that has thirty five or forty then those other cases had to be spread out amongst the australians that don't handle those specifications so the number you gave us on average then clearly yes own average aren't mister mcclean in the midst clifton did you have one o'clock no thank you mr cheeks i'm trying to do my method where you set thirty eight thousand thirtieth alerty thousand would they're considered non active but what are they are they being supervised can you break that down from where you sosk I might not not suspend the sense that offenders you have upscanders. Okay you have a incarcerated even though incarturated is considered not an active case they do actually have to check on over seven days though is counted as the inactive case but is actually cap active gate just like non reporting case is now reporting is considered not an active case but the alternatives had to check on him over thirty days the verified that they're still in non reporting states meaning they may be an asker city they may be a detained in another state in another state's jail I mean there's numerous bill I may be in a treatment facility another institution state hospital we put those in non reporting but every thirty days we have to check on those that make sense okay. Thank you recognize mr now non reporting our intervals non reporting in mays that are out but because they've been on good behavior you you can just say hey we're going to show they have to work there so there to go to a process to get an arm reporting standard hospital or not sure where you're there in a hospital they're going now they they were going out putting what you're talking about now reporting is not someone that we just say they go to own supervisors based on their behavior now i'm reporting is another category actually provided. So we have mags medium minimum and supervised as far as supervision okay and as far as the spend as serious is before when people get placed on suspender sentence no one was there reported but by statute now we keep them in our name so we monitor we get booking notices when they get picked up in jail so any time someone gets picked up on its cra- a charge now they don't suspend the senate we had to notify the prosecutor of that court and tell them that john doer jane doe got picked up on a new charge and then they're aware of that where they want to proceed with revoken that should spend a sense they can go forward with it. Right senator tucker are you are you finished mister raleigh yeah damage. How many vacancies did you say there are right now sixty two on the p and p for for community vision answers we have sixty two hours of june and I take now that fluctuates by the day we're we've advertised a few and we've got a few that we're going to hire and and with this on this leave right so that case load number that you mention that does not include the inactive case is correct no sir we get those cases that it should go to one eighty three that's as of june but when we transfer over to education for our july war excuse me if we were fool with big wonder eighty eight if we were completely full yeah. And if you could wave a magic one and fill those sixty two vacancies what would you know what your average case would be at that point the sixty two every one day well we can't feel sixty percent after july one are a lot of positions is more from five twenty five or five or one o'clock so after july one if we feel the remaining position if it be one to eighty eight with positions that we can't feel and what about just with the active cases you know that's what they would be just active cases one eighty eight that there would be the average caseload eighty eight years at one two eighty eight. Alright and but but you said that it should be any were then you can't hesitate it said really should be fifty nine this is my person you're trying to messages I mean i've noticed job for thirty some years you can spend a lot more time with fifty you can really get into their laugh and really maintain you know monitor their behavior right now what you get to a certain point I mean is getting to be where you're hit and have always I mean if we really want to get the point to where we're actually supervising kind of like a case manager dealing with employment dealing with you know make sure they you know they they do and everything they're supposed to do the more the fear you have the more time you can spend with a absolutely that's that's what I was draving at so the only one in two ways to get that number down one is to reduce the number of of cases or the others to increase the number officers correct gray or both ideally reduce the number of cases. All right thanks are what what is the what was what was the upscandard number did I hear you say that right now ten thousand four eighty seven okay and how how is that defined is that just that that's people who have not shown up for supervision yeah I can thirty days and they have not shown up and we cannot locate them we had the issue of scalmore on pro we see and repetition are violation port of the poster in dress reboard of probation we sent a petition to the court mr allen okay glass question the angle ugh aren't supervised right that says and in may that is about two less a six months before he collect no more do you have a vision that would like automatically say six months prior to you back in the day were truth in sanity is discharged out of his discharge like we don't I mean there's ways you can work your discheck get earned discharge creates to get our probation earlier but when you're on a supervisor discharge date is your district what we mean I mean they say he's going to discharge in october this year I mean I say december could he be put out on super bass now he still guys this day but he can be unsupervised let's say now I will take them off saying that it work with him got these almost complete and he done nothing if he works through the unsupervised yesterday we put him up but I mean by then he's probably worked a minimum so he's only a lot of communication three months anyway okay and we actually have interest reporting so some of them actually want to get to minimum they only have to come and see if they do a via telephone there's messages back and forth between the officer and the offender. In turkey sir thank you they wish to how many ask a general question I know there's going to be exceptions with specific cases but generally and yells experience what is the effect in this level of supervision and your one as opposed to your your three and then on download six seventy nine to as far as the officer or just the effect the effectiveness with the person being supervised how much of a difference doesn't make in their life to be to be supervisor accountability I mean it varies bab I mean each each offenders different I mean does it matter as much and your five as it does in your one probably nine I mean actually I actually have learned the system but I mean some of them don't learn me some of the internet in and out in that I mean they're stately getting citizens in our sanction as p back out ssp back out some large unknown I mean nature the base are sir. I said out of the people that your supervision how many of them have been on there term and term and time again but when I was the outside was anybody directly now but as also for using years of my neighbors sign ones over and over no I mean every night and you get a new one but I mean by the town you know II actually worked lonal county for number years so I was the only option that counting manual everybody's family alone can as far as the fenders I think call the mother when it started to get out with I just sound a paperwork country sounds good. Are chairman magness and then judge will go to you you're muted german one of the things i'd like for director geek to come in on at least it's my opinion on what number that bothers me more than anything it's the scandals of of course we wish we had more also but the scandal numbers of ten thousand at least in my opinion if statistically if you're not coming in you got an eighty percent chance that you're going to find if you're coming in and me and supervisors a percent chance you're not getting in trouble so that number of ten thousand if uh quite a few offenders it will especially when it's a major crime it appears that they're they're upscanded have like for rich chief size up about that what i'm sorry missus question can you previous are. Mister mister magazi asked if you could repeat that question a gm recognition it's always been my opinion that the people that's gone to really that number always bothers me in its over the years that nothing but went up and if you're not coming if you're not coming in to be supervised there's a ninety percent chance that you're going to affect if you're coming in to be supervised there is an eighty percent chance you're not going to reaffirm do you have any comments on that the scandals is any category number located correct I think it's correct and as far as some undo run out because you're doing bass among run out because you're scared I mean they they sometimes they get bad information I think that they're going to get sent back because our fees are not paid or for various reasons or transportation miss one appointment don't come in and they run off I mean actually the heaven more officers you actually can spend more time with your offender than we do now I mean with a higher case loads also users sometimes stressed out as far as the manner time they can actually spin with the offender and sometimes have a few were also as I think leads to more upscanning. I mean they actually know that we don't have sometimes the time to go out no special response team is also program they're out picking them up but they're they're limited on how many they can actually pick up and there's what we're dealing with now it's been space it's kind of hard to find places to put them so that kind of limit limits what we can actually do with arabsconders. But I think it is just pretty much the one effect you know I don't want to come in because I know they're going fail there drug destination failed to drop to after they've got other things going on that I can really don't keep in so that's that's the number that changed to bother me a lot that's grown over the years and that's not that we don't look for more night every day that's what you're as art eighteen does but uh later major cases to first time if you look at he's going to be in a scandar and that number bollers me. Thank you chairman judge I wanted to circle back to the concert of how perhaps the supervision could be more effective if they're the case load was smaller and I want to talk a little bit about what we see in terms of our specialty courts and I know that acc provides officers as well as counselors and admins for the specialty courts and what I have observed and while presiding over at the credit county adult drug court for example is that the probation officers assigned to that court or able to provide more intense supervision they have much more frequent contact that find out more information about some of the barriers that those participants are counter so that they can try to connect them with additional resources and we see better success when that happens and so II wondered if you had any thoughts about how to apply or correlate that same level of intensive supervision that are specialty court probation officers are able to apply if that could be utilized or directed towards regular probation case slopes as well absolutely I mean this is what I first started making television but nanny too on our first star long county i'd like forty forty five people I do them guys nurse and they literally I was going by their job that was going by their house once a minute a mean you saw more regular basis I mean you really get to know your offenders and figure out in you kind of keep a matter with a fires when you update level of supervision you go up your ratifications but it's just like anyone dealing with your kids eventually they learn how to live within your rules so actually as that you know it will jump up at first but then to me we'll contact level of after they figure out that. This is all I can get away with if not i'm going back to prison so I mean it's the same thing with record drug quarters very reading as far as you get four strikes around out your drip work works but most of me miss the appointment you got a strike you want to do for three days you did this you do eventually they really lacked of the the structure of drug court I think a lot of the finish only waited record long county was very successful and mean but it was very very strict as far as there was no leeway on what you get away with I mean they just didn't say I will yeah your car broke down he we're going to have to that in the car there so and if you take the premise that lower case loads allow your officers and and some of the probation officers that have encountered or fantastic at their jobs I mean they are really really talented people but if they had less people to supervise they would be able to do more with the people that they are supervising I would say in my two counties that I have criminal court it is exceptionally rare for me to take a plea for unsupervised probation that honest never happens if someone is pleading to a felony it is almost always thirty six months or sixty miles or forty eight months of supervised probation and to kind of a tag on to what senator tucker commented on do you think it would be beneficial in terms of freeing up some time for your probation officers ear for some of those please started looking more like twelve months supervised and twenty four months unsupervised absolutely I mean sometimes I mean that the offenders they won't know that they can get off and be successful relaxing sometimes after twelve months they're good to go I mean it is depends on the fan or you're going to know right now the gay is there going comply they're not going to comply so I mean any sense on the leisure if offenses that are going to you know being probated I think it's ideally you know cut the sense is down a little bit in terms of how much is supervisor. Create alright thank you. Are sir this shoot as he hand up or now I am curious where this eighty percent figure came from the the eighty years this is the national standard they can't go out as eighty eight eighty percent successful year that I guess mr magmr magnus mentioned what what is the basis for that just your own personal observation or are there some statistics on there how much mister magnesses mr magnus you're still with this I don't know if you heard that question. No I didn't play it again mister well let him say it okay i'm i'm convinced the the eighty percent figure that you mentioned for a success or not success and early on and later on is that just your own personal observations over the years or is that some personal observation personal observation per mission i- it goes against the fact that no I don't know i'd say but if a person like a lot of people now come in there's a few that don't come in because no one pay fees I get that but a lot of my because they don't want to come in to take a drug case and once a they start down with some illegal activity they don't very sell they keep they keep that activity up until they found it count again so again that the thing that you're personal yes you have the number the number of eighty percent is just some I usually use a term if you're if you're coming in and your meeting with your pro also doing what you're total really good change you're not bothering the law but if you're not coming in as a real good chance you are bolitenal. Thank you sir and it may be day and it may be as a as i'll see this light the special north arguments are and you probably see it close to fortunate they won't live in alcohol they can't they don't feel that they don't pay them the transfer fee mates go ahead and move to alcohol but one they do they're in violation of their the supervision instructions but I have that happen appear a lot where people move back up and the missouri because we're on the line and automatically the quick coming in they become a scandal could be as simple as that. Alright mister cheek i've got a question the supervision fee is is thirty five dollars yes sir so how much revenue and II don't know it's not necessarily your I don't know if you're making money because there's obviously costs associated drug tests in things that nature but how much revenue does that bring in total do you know between thirteen and fourteen million a year okay and that's our special revenue but other special revenue we pay all of our leases out of our drug tears and over gps a lot of our reentry charges so we have a lot that comes out of special remotes that we buy our vehicles are going to bullets everything we purchase comes and special and when you say we is that just we can agency that's just community yes okay access for a whole lot of that's our special revenue we don't we're not funded for those disalarian time we have any of our leases with fifty six hours as round state that we don't leave some also when we own a majority of we do lease we have to pay for all that utilities that come that special revenue car members any other questions senator tucker and then miss clifton thank you sure so I know we talk whether they can see what about retention and turnover of officers what satellite is pretty bad as getting worse especially area one which gives is washington county we're losing them by the day I think we lost three last week are starting savings thirty two four o five rogers pd's fifty six thousand these I think the three people who also the day I went in that wall martha between seventy five and ninety thousand we can't compete. Okay what my father question is is you what you have already partially answered which is about money and II understand that my follow up questions what can we as a state do to help with retention and filling all the spots that we have are obviously money as a piece of it but as a way are there any laws that need to be changed or any other in cinnamons we can provide calls I mean the salary is I mean they start out of the gs five which is the same as the admin now so I mean we're competing we're trying to hire an officer to the same great as a admin three so they go gs gsv as a start and also after one year they can go to gsc and then watch in three years they can make agent which is gear seven so when it balls down it's really just money and that's it in your opinion that's the start I mean i'm there's other things I mean how you treat your employees is is is big you know as far as promotion wise now that but initially it would be I mean it's hard for us to post a job in north arkansas at thirty two four oh five with with the college degree. And you go work for the broader speedy or benvale or fate they'll make a whole lot more money right out so and what i'm trying to I understand the money part but what i'm really trying to get he said is sure there's other things if there's anything like that that we can work on or improve on yes you can tell us now what those are the you know that that's that's what I would like to know not that i'm aware of I may have I come up with email either one of you okay all right thanks sir miss clifton and mister minus you had to hand up will go to you after so the ten thousand and scanders it's the srt officers that potentially free capture will the hosters go out and find them to you know they have time but special response as what they're really test for is getting our scott numbers down so what happens like if somebody has five years on supervision and they have scanned after six minutes and then that next four and a half years goes what happens like they're they still discharged all supervision on pro on probation that time stops once that alios warned his issue by the court then that's strictly up to the court on how they want to do as far as perot want you hit that day then it's gone more is dated that time that you have left is frozen so if you get picked up ten years from now and you four and a half years that four and a half years tax on the back of it so it read just your time you do not get that time for free number so what warner's issue by the post rate and trash for board it just like it goes to the hand it could be twenty years from manual two years and you got twenty two years you know two years ago and you have to complete your senate so what happens when an upscandar's car they do they serve time is that a new charge and they serve time and prisoner it it just starts to drive our main and it's up the post religion trash for board we actually turn over then they can decide either they can if it's a short period of time making either way to ninety days they can. Wave to six months of the proposal and trash reborder they can go to a hand they they have choices back and then you said the thirteen fourteen million a year of supervision fees what is not covered in the acc budget it just sounds like you named a lot of things besides the officer did not go to but understand that's what we pay out of that fee well it may be as they're wrong but what is what else is there besides the officer salaries that doesn't come out of those fees is that the the alchemist were nope so like the supervision fees you said pays the leases for the buildings vehicles weapons ammination gps are any progress for the offender so pretty much everything but salaries so if there were more if there are less people in prison more people on supervision that would generate more revenue it would okay the fire thing mr mames thanks miss chairman I was going to just remind gem and he did it that that thirty two thousand is also it requires a four year degree I mean is it in your opinion that that should be a requirement for the job I do so yeah because the any other questions from committee. Closed those ones right after misclipped to mister one more so on not the officer side but like the counselors and all that kind of stuff what i'll programs are provided for community supervision in the programming area we have samples which they I mean there's no substance abuse there are during mental health I think in the new six fifty nine they are going to mental health we have a drop for drug court evagers at work with a drug courts so those are only two really there work within then we have a people that work inside the prisons at new treatment within their all of our senators are last and treatment for white river will not be an I guess is the only one so are any so why when we go back and an earlier meaning it was said they were like a hundred programs with an adc why as they're still the need for the programs in community supervision and just in your opinion or was your need because they're still having such as user issues I mean they deal with the mother in what we have to actually deal with them when they're out so i'm in that problem then go away I mean so when they relate sir gets a ported they actually need some council that's what they're therefore allowed it actually started because there's a lot of rule areas like say full to get on sale I mean plastic county jersey county. Create it I mean there's a lot of our larger counties that there are treatment providers in those areas but when you get out some areas like boom county polk county maintenance so you're kind of out there I say the stakes but there's now as much treatment there we had to provide the treatment in those areas app thank you miss clifton mister raleigh okay ten thousand soccer also includes don't that includes lack somebody from the piece who may have of scandal I don't know they go that far back yes there's there's some there's some has been over a long time yes I mean large times we got there in some nazareth case we got you know we periodically gleaned to that listen some of them have passed away so once we get a dear certificate then we can actually discharge a budget as a basic before yes we can't just do it set the sale so what is somebody is key old somewhere else and nobody know there is done he's going to be on that list that we can verify so that's what makes it look scary okay thank you mister sender tucker with my questions that this is my last question in the I thought that was going to be the case last week but I didn't say it on purpose but this time i'm i'm going ahead and i'm put in the game and down this my last question so II really it's the same question I asked before about the officers but it's as to council is another treatment providers how's recruitment and retention there is there what can we do if if if it's less than ideal which i'm guessing it is what can we do on that front it's really just kind of the same one a questioning but just about the counselors and other treatment providers I mean i'm i'm i'm world now probation process I had to get with my treatment folks and does that you know let them tell me what. They're actually dealing with I mean I don't deal with the treatment that near as much as I do on the the p and p sad fair enough earner. Hi seen no further questions is there anything else from the department for the good of the committee anything you want to add which like to do as okay members do we have any questions discussion or anything before we call this to a close this great time that we've had doing okay anything from again i'll ask you to think of an apartment doesn't are I anticipate as not having a meeting in july unless all your just you know begging me to call one out i'll take so request in petition form if you want but I think you know that i'll give us as well going on with travel and other things with members I know and sort of be a little easier and decides nobody wants to come up to this building a hundred plus degree heat so i'll i'll spare you all that so with that being said anything from any of the folks and attendants in the audience for the good committee all right the staff given you a lot of options there are a lot of opportunity some but in the data I would I hate to do this would you mind come to the table because we got people on zoom that may not be able to hear that microphone if you would see that I gave so many opportunities and write it the last minute I just wanted to say that i've come to these meetings and time a time again asked for the data and I wanted to say that we have the data were very happy and I wanted to think everyone who worked to get used the data and to get us such nice clean data which I know took a lot of work for the folks to the department of corrections who put that together for us also ecic and aoc so I just wanted to give that up. Date we have it are researchers are crunching the numbers in doing all the data stuff that I don't fully understand but that's my update so which is a we shall have a meeting in july could you have any of opportunity to present that they are no sir if they were true further it was told about three months no worries are well thank you for that and again our are thanks to the department for expeditiously getting that uh that data in its being very clean data so miscliffed into that that you are I was just want to give an opportunity I with that members will adjourn thank you so much