Legislative Joint Auditing-Counties and Municipalities

He in uh mister charles kind of swapping shares and all that so joe well complexer in fuel enough we we we need to adopt the minute to the june thirteenth minute meeting a motion by senator gilmore's or second second basement in discussion on favor say I post thank you. In let's go ahead and adam see the discussion of act seven of nine of twenty twenty one this is turned back found from medicine thank you mister chair the city madison requested last month to repaid less than ten percent of their general revenue for a ballot to the street fine one hundred dollars a month which would reject it so they're here again today to but by understanding to issue a revent proposal so it's by your madison here the officials from medicine yes you come to the in the table thank you. Mister they also have a report on the agenda today i'd like to with your pleasure to go ahead and do it at the end of this discount that will be fine that way where they can go on back to medicine take care of the folks there might identify yourself for the record turn push button with the math on it yes I am a roar went from the mayor city of madison arkansas okay thank you just your clark with you here man would you introduce yourself for the record. Thank you maybe okay you're recognized we did get the information from you but i'll let you speak to the uh requests that you're making to the committee. Yeah. Proposing is that since the general form of the draft file the street for on twenty four thousand five hundred and fifty nine dollars for us to pay a three thousand five hundred and fifty nine dollar lump sum and three hundred fifty dollars a month for six months until the balance is paid off okay and the one I had same way or sit sixty five hundred down in three hundred miles but have we calculate that mister we have not overnight the numbers I was given but. This will be a decision about full committing by yourself but we want to have exact answer to you when the payout would be on this on so the committee could act from that knowledge in it hanging a senator give more recognition and this is just a question for staff is interest required on that is that factor down no for this money's own to themselves okay then it depends on here that those work out to the exact same five year payout okay is everybody understand what we're deal and I will say it's for the benefit of the public and for any other uh minister priorities that are here because it people need to know this cities thank you to receive turnback funds based on a formula in these are highway fines and it must go into their road and can't road and bridge account you can't spend it on other matters and we have some uh towns that have done that I put it in their general finance planned on email to their money but they have to pay that back to their own road and bridge fun and that's what this is about so uh this was an animal repeat this I didn't say it right you said thirty five hundred down and three fifty a month until it's paid off okay and that would take the same time which is sixty minutes five years right any questions for the stareforward mayor on this particular item. Yeah. Are you holding your finger up recognized thank you mister chair so that first of all let me ask me if you enter into that plane is they're going to put your period you are in fiscal the stress. Stress but it's pushing it somewhat but I think we can make it work that way. Work there are thank you thank you very much thank you certain mayor i'm hoping with filling part holes and smoother streets you have less equipment broken down because it won't be hit in those part of all the she fix your series but that's I know that's probably a optimistic view of things but maybe that so here a question representing five minutes yeah I have a question for staff uh mister will they need to pass the resolution before we vote on it here no third day resolution is just for if these two to do it without jails approval and it has to be more than ten percent you'll have to prove anything less than ten percent good on your first when there doesn't require any other questions on this either to the staff or to them okay what is the will the committee make a motion that we accept the presentation motion by representative fight a second business give more any discussion. If not in favor say I opposed motion press may we accept your offer and please michael's payments on term and let's get this resolved and go feel some part that we get another item so let's we're going to go ahead and move filling some part holes tomorrow where we've got another item on the agenda and we're going to come all at staff ring it up so you don't have to come up twice a day as one of the deferred reports from the gene medium or pays nine and ten position answers. City amateurs in two thousand twenty two under the mayor and recorder treasure. This report shows the ballots of thirty one thousand seven seventy four however it was brought to our attention that the as a december thirty first twenty twenty two the general foreign of the significant amount of balances owed the street fine and sanitation followed when these outstanding ball- amounts are considered the general foreign as a def- foreign balance of just under two hundred thousand dollars this is a repeat finding from the previous three years under the recorder treasure state aid for how we find in previous years twenty four thousand five fifty nine the street fine with not transferred doing the engagement period has required by twenty seven seventy two o seven the city made monthly payments of one hundred dollars towards this ballot which was less than one percent of general revenues. The general but the government body has not pay off the ordinance or resolution for this repayment policy this is a this is this finally the repeat finding in the previous eleven report dating back to two thousand and continuing under the recorder treasure sales tax restricted for sanitation expenditures in previous years of different over two hundred and six thousand dollars produce sanitation fallen with not transferred during the year the city made monthly payments of one hundred dollars towards this ballot in addition to transferring one month of twenty twenty twenty one say of tax. Of eighty five hundred dollars during january twenty twenty two this has been repeated in the previous six reports dated back to two thousand and fourteen fixed their set listings were provided but did not include proper control totals and identification numbers when apparently in noncompliance of fourteen fifteen and one or seven this has been repeated in the previous three report. The cities accounts were under collateralized about a hundred and thirty five thousand dollars in december thirty first twenty twenty two in noncompliance with nineteen eight one o seven this is repeating the previous year. We have a recorder treasure in hard day and two questions yes ma'am here recognized years are. The one else find is that I can say abroad guess with me currency brown way because she was day to day operating with their situation which are the east time we came we propose it paying pay what we could and we they accepted the hundred dollars in that's what we pay. We could not afford to pay any more so let's have state i'll only do it the recording of it. Questions by committee. Staff recommends that we follow the report there's no more question any questions before here is any objection to following the report with that objection for we file thank you mayor core treasure and you can you can you can go back thank you try to get back in order. Update on the city gradiation d thank you mister chair back in the genuine committee meeting we filed the committee file the twenty one and twenty two city of grady reports that both had uh speak tra- findings in the and the uh they were both referred to the proscuit attorney and we received a disposition report regarding this since the last meeting and based on further disposition report the prostitution turning set based on the decline in tickets from twenty two to tony from twenty one to twenty two and the minute to aunt our code twelve dash eight days for three which is the speed trap which changed the definition of affected hard way to include that the speed limit must decrease at the spirit at in the city limit there no further action would be necessary for the city of a great okay anyone from great here today they weren't invited they weren't by not necessary since we've accepted in what they said any questions about is there. Then we'll file the report thank you now we'll update on the private reports and I did we've got the deferred reports. Yeah. The four fifty three of two thousand twenty three amended on talk team dash for dash four twelve two uh required that all private report for city uh leaks to use a private cpa for or and including their water and sewer audits be filed with leslie border within eighteen months and so the effective date of this for the twenty twenty two reports would have been june thirtieth the tory for so that was last week and we wanted to report that as obama yesterday there's two outstanding reports for citi proper reports of the forty that elected to use private CPA firms the city of him in city of smack over. We've not find the imminent contact uh barker to let her know that smack both both mayors were sit letters as has been customary policy based staff on april twenty second uh men to request it senator johnson we be mailed representatives I didn't want to add one of the thing before we get to the water portion of this. In from two thousand twenty through two thousand twenty two staff average receiving about four hundred in three private reports a year and since the four fifty three was was passed we've received four hundred and eighty one reports in two thousand and twenty three and three hundred and twenty seven the first six months of twenty four so we've made a lot of ground in the short period of time and we expected that to continue so work for fifty three is working the fair assumption that's that that staffs assumption okay I don't know who spontaneous for fifty three but finish their dead thank you the it made some progress getting people in a lot and i'm i'm a little less a tolerant of the private cpa farms that are doing this work they think our contract to do it they need to do it and timely manner and we've we've done that. Okay really want take any action to to mean do we need to follow that to bottle those where we do have II mean to continue with the water please could continue the other part of that bill was to um to request the same of the water consumer private audit there were about four hundred and nine of though four hundred ninety nine of those attached to cities and currently we have a roughly about a hundred of those outstanding I included in your packet a breakdown per year of how the link what they are. Uh did a five you break down the way about twenty that's just one year delinquent and we have additional thirty three two years to link. Staff not only concerned with those because most of those type of reports on our two or three years cycle so you know they they are following report with earth so we feel that we'll get those just maybe not as timely as as the law requires now the other three categories which is additional roughly fifty three now these number changes daily i've got two emails today but we've updated these numbers and it's just it's not reasonable to continue continue to give you updated number so these numbers are actually up ding twenty four of twenty twenty june twenty fourth of twenty four but the those that are in the five year the lake or somewhat concerning because and and what know we have not as a matter of practice notified them of their their requirement but be a letter like we do the cities so that's something that uh staff which is of to do I mean the committee which is have to do we would certainly do our best to comply committee he think that's a good idea that we'll get the step to the same thing on the series they did on the water see if you had nothing by has an objection of that let me know otherwise i'm a recommendation for that step won't do all of those that are delinquent just like those that are a certain level of delinquent you know the that's something we need representative dollars thank you mister chair I would suggest that we go ahead and do all of them and even if it's just a year so that they now that were aware of it in maybe like a fire understand them to get it concur with your analysis one center for in five years late there's just absolute three four and five years absolutely no excuse and you will know representative dollars we're dealing with in some places and crisis in water and serious. Sometimes our its reports and things help uncovered problems that could be avoided why we don't have a repeat of the kind of issues for example that they were dealing with in hell in the west talent recently we you know things kill better out of hand on the the budgets and you've got deferred maintenance and then shared the water goes off so we will do we need a motion mister I think I could just without objection will inform the staff to do that effort no objection consider that okay are we ready to go to the review reports start playing with okay and i'm going a little bit out of order for where with me and just accommodate we expect there's I think there's more people from german can I hear them in law carry but i'm on a laugh i'll not care to go first and uh. Trader when judge doesn't sort of your people can go here at the table i'm and i'm going to. For everyone is here today. You are welcome to be heard but remember what we are here for we are uh the legislative drawer our committee on county two minutes ballots we are not a quarterlaw we're certainly not involved in any local issues related to uh intergovernmental contention and we will concentrate on on the issues at hand and also remind the committee that uh uh there may be some reasons that this these witnesses might needed for answering questions because of you know some some pending legal matters so i'll leave that up to them in. Chair when you recognize to introduce yourself the record all all three of the actually. Uh judge when dugger went from lonal county county judge jason owens lono canny attorney allen diedson former county attorney for county current country to focus on okay so we're we're we're overwhelming under judges don't think at the time okay gender when you have a brief statement to my. We're happy to take in questions okay with those that's fine the findings or about i'm all asked to read the findings for the benefit of the committee in in republican go out here in june two thousand nineteen county solicitor be it for counting road right away mowing services and accepted of a hundred and ninety five dollars per month the contract terms were for the remainder of the calendar year with the county having the option to renew the contract for up to three annual extensions. In two thousand twenty three account and continued to use its vendor without slicing be it as required by fourteen twenty two or o two or or exempting exempting the solicitation of be it our review of selected role foreign dispersement revealed payments told almost four point four million dollars were paid to one vendor for counting road right away mowing services for the five year period ended december thirty first two thousand twenty three we discovered and duplicate invoice payments totalling just over a hundred and thirty two thousand dollars and the county did not see repayment or credit at the report they been there overpayments towing just over a hundred and thirty two thousand dollars remain outstanding in the country had not pursued reimbursement from the vendor the vendor's family invoices to the county that contained names of properly own roads and the county adjusted invoice amount before making payment we know that some invoices did not contain evidence that the inboards will be viewed from non county root it appears to be selected which rather ways to move whether the county determine the areas for mowing contrary to the terms of the contract for the more documentation was not available to support the county review of oversight of services provided by the binder. Under the county share of dormthough department of inspector general disclosed and report dated april might think twenty twenty three that the employee of the long candidates share office whose time was funded by the comprehensive board. Of abuse program duplicated hours on time sees for total of a hundred and forty six and a half hours is duplicated. Of of the duplicated hours of conversation of duty services and the grand resulted in overpayment of two thousand five hundred and eighty six dollars the finally in ideas agreed to recover the overpayment about reducing the remaining reimbursement by the same amount for the investigator position in addition definitely an ideas who will require the sheriff's office to certify the accuracy of payroll time and effort with each emission. Continual page five the county under county clerk a review of paperless records and general clurks office for the period january one twenty twenty two to july twenty twenty second of twenty twenty three vehicle questionable payment told him four thousand two hundred and thirty one dollars regarding three employees with issues uh ranging from vacation leave taking with that leave before leave was earned calm time without taxes with hailed before you know overpayment due to our work being reported in incorrect time period time payments for increment weather. Personally without adequate supporting documentation miscalculation of carlton sickly you've taken without leave for legal. Okay and question center gilmore thank you mister chair judge thank you for being here so I have read the response and just sort of it's a lot of words so I think it would be helpful to the committee into everyone here if you could just maybe walk through because i'm not sure how duplicated invoices get paid I assume that there's. A system eh employees to catch that uhm I know you software and it meet will catch duplicate payments like that or do plug it invoices so I would just like to hear your explanation for that or I guess maybe you're attorney so if I may speak to the first fall uhm the invoices uh reference to in the report. Uh or almost entirely from twenty nineteen twenty twenty four and five years respectively ago the the latest single reference to adamized amount was from a little over three years ago so this is a problem that's been remedied at this point it's unfortunate that these were submitted and and. It's missed opportunity to correct them when they happen. But there is a process in place where when invoices come in to any elected official those are routed through the clerk and treasure back and forth they they pass through at least half a dozen hence in the county before being paid also the auditors have reviewed these four and five times respectively obviously in the last four and fi. Again it's unfortunate that these things were missed but as we've laid out in our response. Uhm the substantive question is whether these are duplicated invoices for the same work or duplicate invoices for separate work we believe the latter to be true the vendor has assured us. Uhm even offering before um recent events to to provide an affidavit to that effect. Uhm the the he did them every other day of point showers us there this work was actually performed that despite me slapping in invoicing practices on these eight or nine occasions out of hundreds of invoices uhm uh I would add and again several several years ago um despite the invoice is being slappy in my understanding was that this was. Uhm in in most of all these cases simply. The vendor realizing head and bill for the last time and follow copying this times invoice they do in in those cases repeat mowing for the same roads but that's to be expected because they're mowing the same roads over and over again in a in a seasonal summertime they move them in a rotation so they're they're going to mole the roads in the northern part again and switch over to the east southwest of course. Uhm and so there would be the same mowings of the same groups of roads several times throughout the year in fact we we did a deeper dive in the invoicing and ended up being five to seven hands per summer we found uh identified gaps where some of these things were that indicated that there this was invoicing for multiple mowings not just one. Uhm the uhm the cumulative totals also lead us to that conclusion uhm the two lowest cumulative annual totals in the last five years. Were nineteen and twenty. Uhm those who are lowest in two thousand twenty was much lower than in the other year the average year was just little over eight hundred thousand dollars a year which by the way is significantly lower than other counties uhm surrounding with similar mileage uhm um different counties do it different ways many employee the road department to do that uhm uhm we've chosen to carry the longer cash chosen contract around because of efficiencies in cost. Uhm the the but the annual cost is just a little over eight hundred thousand dollars for this function in twenty twenty when four of these nine occurrences happened. The chemical of annual totals right around four hundred thousand dollars let's obviously not the episode the the effect of some rampant uhm theft plot instead it's that was the first year of coven and I guess we decided we couldn't even move the south the road without catching it at that time but obviously that's that's low level at this point but all of those data points point is to the substantive answer to the question the this work was actually performed and so that's why I was paying with respect to the question of how did we not catch it uhm I think it's respectfully the the same way nobody called it for four or five years I don't believe at that time invoice numbers were being input into the system. Uhm obviously it wouldn't it wouldn't speed it out because it was the same road because the same roads are being modeling over year. Uhm and so there's a little bit of that going our our current contract requires at this point unique and I think that's why he hadn't seen this problem in three plus years really four plus years with one exception. Uhm are our current contract requires a unique invoice numbers and requires encourage dates mode what they was were these roads moan which I think sorts out most role this confusion I think it's why he hadn't seen this problem in three four. Thank you representative batty here recognized thank you mister tear just a couple of questions from what detailed in the documentation that we have here. First question uh in indicates in the information provided us that the county is not pursued reimbursement from the vendor could you provide us with some statement as to why you have not pursued reimbursement of the hundred and thirty two thousand dollars the thing is because we believe the work was performed and we had a country to pay this vendor for working performed in algious would make is to an employee who uh forgets the turn in a time she goes to the clerk. At the end of four weeks instead of two in terms of time she didn't clark says we didn't submit your time she last time she says oh okay well let's make a photo of copy of this one in turn indian and they pay their person for two time periods and yet you've got duplicate invoices and the problem here was exactly about the fact that the way picked up on it for five years but the bottom line question there is not where there were slot the invoicing we can see that to be the case we can see that these things were missed. Uhm on these on these eight or nine occasions again out of hundreds and in hundreds of invoices from this vendor thousands of invoices from the many vendors for the county. Uhm that the invoicing was slappy and and it was missed but we paid because we've got a substantive legal duty to pay we believe because the vendor actually did the work just like the deputy clerical treasure that misses turning in a time she if they actually do the work yet pay for it even if uhm they they turn in a bad time she now ideally you wish you've been called to time where you could correct the the records the form would match the substance but we we pay because we believe we have the substantial duty to pay in the country then then i'm i'm glad you say that because I want to file a work because the next paragraph states that the county could not provide documentation to support the county review and oversight of the service is provided by the vendor. So have you installed any type of procedures to go back and now have support documents for the invoice if you're paid then a belief that you owe their macarty received an invoice. Well of course we don't follow any of our any employees around the country better or is i'm i'm asking about documentation to support the payment of the invoices other than you received an invoice and your belief is that sure have a duty to pay those invoices sure so as as I mentioned currently we've we've got a requirement that uh a model incurred date be submitted that those invoices be submitted within thirty days at this point that's another fix we've installed to make sure that those things were received timely so within thirty days they're submitting an invoice detailing the rose that been mode and the dates on which those roads were m. So you have now duties and procedures lived out for the employee they repay that it is paying the invoices to document why they're paying and and what's being paid well those were always turned in unfortunately we had these examples of uhm have called them slappy I think that's probably the best word for it slappy invoicing practices where uhm uh an invoice was followed copied instead of being set out more precisely particularly with respect to modern dates and particularly with respect to timely billing because I think that ultimately was the issue here so that those things have always been submitted unfortunately they were submitted in a sloppy fashion on these eight or nine occasions well that again at my she's not with the submission of the invoices my I think the the daily of this committee and what we're here for is maybe the slappiness of the record keeping in the procedures in the county that support the payment of invoices and and vendors that come through the colleague and that's not on the vendor that sound you guys there at the county level it's something that should be taken very seriously well so I will say that we are aligned by line review is done of these and and even the audit committee the audit report notes there there there we go through line by line in part to determine whether any private rose were mistakenly mode in in the audit report actually credits a county with finding those in marking them out in that paying those amounts. So there are only the mowing of canning republic roads are are permitted thank you chairman thank you represented by a representative you're recognized thank you judge and many miles of road you have over eight hundred miles and that's quakes to sixteen hundred plus uh roads and this contract is it one mile for a hundred and ninety five in in the findings here is both sides of the roads so you know up and back you don't get both sides but we have over a dancer question a reps and that it's over eight hundred miles of county road follow up please yes sir and do you do you mowed watch a year all roads once here all roads class a year now sir we move you know it the pians there certain areas if you took the south help of long county from our forty seven down around from say long off to england you've got situations to war uhm the farmers don't shut off them airplanes on a cross county road they fertilize it to in their run a water day on the ditches and so there's certain areas that require more often bowling than others and but you know it we start uh who in the grass in the weeds get tall enough you know i'll wait till about nine spring and then we motor frost inform some counties just like for instance uh fortnight county here judge dotson's here this gentleman most of the whole county with one tractor and one bush vendor the bender and judge dots name I believe stand corrected they have eight mores. The run near round and it just because we don't have the man power to try to do it ourselves on our first came in office fourteen half years ago. We tried to do it ourselves. And it just was feasible you know for us and in his cotton worst force uh so several years ago we had uhm. A couple gentlemen there were mount the roads in in you know as pose ever by thought is going get rich on this contract because it is a large amount dollar amount but what you're actually doing for the work it's not and so the fair way to do it uh judge dots and was our county attorney for four years prior to becoming the for- mechanic judge and so we put it up for be it. And he drafted the contract there were three bidders. Two hundred and fifty that are two hundred fifty dollars a mile one was two hundred dollars a month in this bedroom here this gentleman here beat a hundred and ninety five and he was awarded the contract. You don't renew that contract every year and also the contract was originally and I think there were some just and it's not dish respect to the audit but I think there was some interpretation difference because uh judge dodge next graph to the contract and he could speak to that if we were if you were like in but what it was that the contract stored it on june the seventh of two thousand nineteen and it was for the remainder of the year and then three consecutive years and renewable annually well. Are in terms was that as long as gentlemen has done the job we would have the ability to uh keep renewing the contract. Well we had no problem but in this past year's audit had it found that their interpretation was that we should have rebid the contract and twenty twenty three. Okay. Judge doesn't do you want to respond further to the question yes thank you thank you all and it's in former county attorney little county current county judge fortunate county can I do draft contract I know just to take you back to that time. Keeping enough employees who can you can trust to strike out across the county and not through rocks on. Headlights and which helds out is I mean honestly it's challenge in judge when entertained the idea of having the contracts mode having the right away moved by contract which would you know it's very least not take take the issue of staffing off table in the responsibility for damages off table so I think for local county was a I think it was a great idea it's great concert but it was brand new and frankly frankly quite quite scary that intimidating it's a big contracts a lot of miles. You know you initially are concerned about. A contractor who doesn't drop the ball halfway through the year and you you're not heared off to begin mowing and so that that's really the dynamic that existed on the front end of the contract we knew that going in and so the interior he and drafting the contract here term the bit specs before the bids were received and all that was look the county has got to be able to get out of this if the contractors dropping the ball or tearing everybody's two observed and when chills and things like that so the contract is between the parties which should be the county in the contractor was drafted as a single year contract with three rollovers within that contract. And the county's internal structure that's what's going to get out of it if you know and it could be a force continuation by the contractor or vendor. Two thousand nineteen plus three annual extensi. Leave in twenty two two thousand lived in conway from conway knew that having been counted there I was going to go back and run again at some point I decided that was in twenty two. Under the my own thing in foreign italy next thing I know I run into judger when judger wants as well you know I got written off for uhm not rebidding that contract. I mean. That the contract was a single year with three rollovers which details the right says between you two parties but that was basically so you get out of the contract if they were dropping the ball state statu. Stay law by contract to importance state law twelve twenty two one o six eighteen which held lines a particular exemption from the bidding requirement along with several others the eighteenth one I think it's up into the twenties for situations that do not have to be bid so paragraph eighteen states the you do not have to rebuild orbit the renewal or extension of an existing contract then I said just want to make sure you're aware of the contractor and through those years but that's when the contract in the. State law to me but state law says that like gravel and other other items that were exhibit from the bid process extension. Or renew all of an existing contracts not actually build I think there's some parameter you couldn't do that from now to king of cars. That first year after the contract was complete and added after it had run its course and certainly super grave eighteen twelve twenty four one six twelve twenty. Twelve twenty two one and so what to come in interrupt if I could change dots. Obviously like we have her experience for some of these procurement log glitches from the paper that we give one vendor to state agency that's been doing for four years and I stopped my term maybe review there but uh whether and you mention there's twenty something exemptions to polar in the section of the statute and i'm this is an interpretation thing in our we clear their but I want to get we're not trying that here either this is this is simply you know are hearing but I get what you're saying I think there's you know a question of exactly how legally interpreted it and how you crafted the contract that was staying in the fact that all this happened in covered which you know course changes allow the situation but but we have several of the questions in some among the move forward can I follow up on more place okay i'm sorry I did what you cut you offer was in fact please follow how do you just find comering money for the following year with that contract. Okay. Not sure I understand the question if you could okay you you're sitting you're doing a three year contract drive here and so you're obligating three years in advance and it may be another judge somebody else comes in after in sight loud and allow us to incumbent. Thank you thank you there's a an appropriation i'm not looking at the contract in front of me but typically what we do not with standing other state law that would would engage with circumstances warranted but this was a single year contract renewable by the county judge. The following year and so that act by the county judge renewing was that ex. Yeah. To spend the county money that was appropriate and each year the core court sets a budget then appropriate money so the judge would have been appropriating would have been excuting a contract to expand phones that were appropriate. In that contract i'm assuming I don't have it in front of me but we typically most counties will draft a provision in there that says this assumes the money's nor. There's a state law that says the contract's not enforceable anyway if the money is not appropriate and would cover and those are appropriate annually as my understand. You finished for now you can come back to thank you. Representative dolby recognized thank you mister chi. It's money just a few moments ago. Effort david there's something we still dealing with the same vendor doing the m. And has the county pursue getting any documentation from this vendor the backs what you believe happened well so the through simple have you or have you not in it seems like to me as a county you would want to have that documentation for your record so have you asked for that documentation and heavy received it if you clarify what documentation you're referring to well you'd refer to that he would at least execute an affidavit as to how those invoices were but you said you didn't have it or that was my understanding and so my question is why would the county not want their records to be very clear as to what happened so since their terms since we discussed and proposed there for david with them there's been a charge file and so added to. As you might imagine the the documentation that the county has is the list of roads moan and again in these nine occurrences essentially the same documentation is presented now although now there is a requirement for unique invoices numbers uh incur dates model incurred dates and then uhm uh that it be done within thirty days to to remediate those problems with the documentation has been and I presume always will be uhm list of rose that are mode from the vendor uhm that is invoicing for follow up mister chair so from what you said is he now under criminal indictment for what he is for his double building that you say is not double billing is my understanding that he's facing a charge on one of the nine itemized occurrences and you're still utilizing this finder is that correct that's great we we presume him innocent like the constitution. Thank you representing i'll be sending to gilmore well has i've proven time and time again miss chair my legal prowess cannot be held up to par to lawyer since i'm not so the uh. Counselor carolina here asked all my questions i'm just going to cut right to it because we had a lot of explanation. You stated you believe in you stay they didn't provide documentation while on earth are you still doing business. And I understand your statement about presumption of innocence on that's admirable but let should be real clear you had quite a bit of county money experience that you haven't tried to recoup because quote you believe and then yeah you have no documentation back at said belief. So walk me through that well so the documentation I think it makes us about this if I haven't only apologized for that but the the documentation has been the submitted invoices and the invoice is list the roads that were moan as the auto report talks about again and credits the county for going through those uhm invoices to kick out any private rose that were mistakenly modified for driveway or something. Would kick that out in that pay the fourteen credit security for there so that's the documentation it's always been provided when the uh audit legislative audit concerns were made known again four to five years after the fact we took those concerns to heart and approach the vendor and questioned the vendor about it and and the vendors response was a absolutely mode these roads. Uhm. The. We're under a contractual obligation to pay him to the extent he models roads we have no reason believe he didn't other than the uh duplicate invoice mistakes that were made on these nine occasions if i'm my and just briefly in a repair come back to you senator if you have a contractor to build a building and you go out there and there's no building then you know he has made it but you have one to tomorrow you go see if it's mount but. Buildings don't fall down that easily grass does grow if you're somewhat I mean i'm just saying guy I have twelve acres and blame me I know it grows so i'm just i'm wondering if there's some systemic way of monitoring that so uh someone doesn't have again i'm not trying to get in the wage no plan intended on your methodology but but there's got to be a wide i'm i'm an assistance she tells how you can monitor that my answer judge share with you something that it's a good point that the uhm any totally not only the judge but his whole staff and the staff of all the executive officials i'm i'm going to ask him to tell you what's something you told me earlier about the relative complaints about part holes versus right away okay I think I know yes service chairman in the past five years. And i'm all over the county any buying the county that would tell you that II do draw these roads and aware of that. You know and if there's been occasions where they haven't been done suitable then you know we'll call the contractors say you need to move that again but I can tell you this in five years I have never received one vulner on in I can assure you the public will if you wouldn't moan the ditches they would address it I get ten thousand phone calls over part holes but i've never received one phone call that the ditches have it been mode the rataways have been not one okay geographically sir again where you hope that you chair now i'll be finished on this one I think I still find it hard to believe that you would continue to do business with someone who clearly double building whether you say by accident or whatever the reason given I mean at the very least I would think that she would just not pay those duplicate invoices at the very least but that's what i'm trying to figure out is why wouldn't there have been some effort to in good faith for him for you for the county for the people the taxpayers to say look we're just not going to pay you for those well and that's part of what we address in our response which is well which which is the amendment to the contract of the vendor agreed to. Uhm in that amendment to the contract those two things won it memorializes. The agreement between the parties to continue the agreement because he was the lowest bit or five years ago before one of the biggest inflationary runups in american history. Uhm but also show that the second amendment was there if this committee determines that the money is owed that in fact he didn't do the work and i'm not sure how that determination would ever be made. But if if that determination is made that he'll reduce and an issue by this committee I mean that he'll reduce his fee and you believe that what there is an initiative by ten dollars a mile. Uhm moving forward until the coverage is is paid off II think the the judge was going to say something the second ago judge now i've done. The only thing that I would say and in certainly for the people that they know me and how conduct business and long county I would far him so far as to make his head swim if authority had performed the work I think alan was rap by my side for four years as our attorney he's witnessed that uhm if I believed. Just a little bit that the gahed and performed the work our I would pursue it how hardly. Which is limited say. That that something you've observed but we've also orders don't get to observe they got a look at paperwork and we're just we're going to make sure this documentation issues resolved and so i've heard to this are you done on that on saturday on. Thank you miss share only thing else there is we keep. The chairs point we we work in fact the auditors work in facts and I think it's really hard when you're trying to be accountable to the taxpayer for your own sake judge for us here we have to do the same thing we have to prove. What's being done and we are responsible to make sure it's happening and I just think for your sake that you would want to have the facts have the date and have a belief thank you thank you do you want to respond to that you don't have to occur center hammer he recognized that this chair in addresses to the chair staff before I asked question it was reference that charges have been filed was that through action of the committee that those charges have been found as that two and since the bottom we we turn these over to the prostrution attorney and that's in the attorney and attorney general that's as far as we've taken it okay so and that doesn't necessarily as you know send her hammer a result in the in charges you know probably in many cases that it doesn't but uh but that's a requirement of the status or some question would be this um you'd mention that charges have been filed on just their second question as this legally progresses a long through the process what's going to be your position as far as testimony for whether or not to sit individual is guilty of what he was being accused of or you're going to defend him when it gets down to it well first of all we say a charges been on my understanding on one of the nine reference to occurrences that charge as I understand it is theft uhm kind of conspiracy or anything like that uhm the course trial is not imminent at this point. Uhm and so I think we'd have to defer on on any statements about what testimony may or may not occur at a at a trial that hasn't happened yet I would not expect you to need to respond here canceller either follow up mission correct history okay but the fact they and you are continuing to do business with him it is your position that either you are covered by the law to allow to continue to do business with them as you stay while go or you believe that he's done nothing wrong one of those two choices would you agree or hear the respond to that necessary believe that those are the only minor choices uhm uh I think the point is he was a lot better five years ago and we all know what inflation has done the dollar since then. Uhm he has also agreed again if this committee issues a determination that it will reduce his right moving forward until that amount is is reimbursed. Okay but I if i'm here military this conversation day I would feel I have no reason to reduce that rate but there'll be there be determined in the large question with the state again if you would how much longer is it on this contract. This year and and then a decision would be made at the end of this smoking season catch or this is the last of the original contract that was issued well and uh uh uh unless it's renewed our position is at this point that we have the ability in the agreement now particularly in light of the amendment. At least until my understanding of the law is seven years of past. Uhm and so we have the ability to renew there those decisions are made the end of of the annual cycle which would be this fall and you're going to put it back how forbid then well we have made their decision yet okay thank you thank you representative thank you mister just maybe a one point of clarification you said a hundred and ninety five dollars a mile is what the car trade calls for that's great is that a hundred ninety five dollars for both sides of the room both both sides of road early you made the statement there you had eight hundred miles in the county right so basic mayor taken the four point three million are four point four million divided by a hundred ninety five that's about forty five hundred and eight miles a year that would be more now he he's talking about eight hundred miles one way so it's it's more like fifteen or six sixteen hundred so now the removing to year. Based on the contract so you you have that those roads and and right away it's mode three times a year for the eight hundred that would be market that would be mowing all eight hundred miles are sixteen hundred miles three times a year by this generally right and of course the the judge talked about how some roads get mold more because of. Fertilizer water etcetera. I think that's it was he was representing bailey I think he's averaging it out in usual judge mentioned earlier there's the southern half the car seems to most say it grows faster on that's a samples where to say it but that's not a debt you've got an average growth right but then it's not the same and all shows is that correct I think that's fair all right thank you follow up on the representative well I mean that really just kind of a follow maybe on one of the comments that the judge made earlier about how he would fire someone that was taking care of business our maybe operating that was not operating properly and maybe trying to defrod uh the county how do you feel about the college our county executives that are keeping the proper records to support in all that by leg all it because the hundred and thirty two thousand dollars according to leg audits report. That's money that can only improperly pay I think that basically what the report saying so you've got a substantiate that if you don't have the records of state there the new mismatch that money and that's going to be an issue of this commit so how do you answer that well let me speak to there obviously on these nine occasions there were examples of slappy billing the examples of slappy billing or. Essentially the same list of roads with the same invoice number and my issues not with the billing my issues with the pain what you did with the invoices it's nothing to do with what you've received it's what you did the verified before euro the check to pay the invoice and it appears that nothing was done or then check see if it's private or public and you should a check inside it in senate and since then it hadn't been an issue till they got pointed it out. Will in in uh I would add linguist audited these invoices poor and five times before finding these issues the these were literal needle in a stack issues we're talking about nine occurrences out of hundreds of invoices these invoices don't just go the candy judge they go through several hands in within the county. And are paid out and begin none of these were same day payments raining these were submitted a different different times often close closer than you would have expected that that's what the the issue was ultimately but these roads document these these invoices document the roads that were mode the the sloppiness according to the vendor is. Being essentially the the the repeat of the invoice number they etc but that the roads that were invoiced were actually mode on on more than one occasion despite the fact that the face of the invoices appears deplicated last car mean again the reason we are here today is not because of the actions of your vendor we're here talking about this today because the actions that the county shouldn't pay in these invoices so let's be clear on that side of interactions that cast this not the vendor so so as is the case in almost evening the county does there are competing duties that the county has a duty to pay contracts if if the person has done the work whether or not they said minus be invoice the county has a legal duty to pay them care for our money and let me port out the game we're talking about documentation we talked about invoices that were basically photocopied instead of doing a new and for the following month he just might a copy of the previous month or whatever that's not a good practice it's not the same thing is being as it's it's extorting something from the carrier so i'm i'm not going to let you off the hook on the fact that was done but on the other hand it did i'm not sure it raises the level of criminality take my old invoice in I go to the cyrox machine my copy and discribel new data on it it's the same road that I did month and a half before uhm not saying that's good practice but on the other hand will let somebody else decide whether or not that's falling the statute in our put you in the senator low and now the next step is representative g. Thank chairman in this is to be the only gentleman judge or the career attorney of looking on the invoices for the that uh the I guess this is how you call the privately. Private drive were the names of the road he's submits the invoices and he does correct all right do you not have supervisors about it that goes out want today see where this gas mowed to verify so are you taking just that what he's doing off of the name of an invoice. Where the the road foreman of myself were out and about the county uh I know where they're not. They're doing the work and. You know our our agree with our attorney here the invoice thing was slappy so apparently what the concern is right now is the czechs and balance they're saying that they can't prove he done the work uh the only one it knows were technically at this point now we have corrected that situation but it disp. Very often I mean I never take the same percent secure same path home you know I mean i'm all over the county throughout the week I got to follow rather head sir well and and the reason i'm after because you you you it seemed like you called the private road on the names of the invoices yes sir in how do I would I would suggest to you that if if you had a if you were the road to protect it or check in this daily something like this wouldn't happen in the found out in the my question is also the old in this is not part of the course you can't it before and how many private drives a road did this gave mo in putting in him hammy mouse was it and I know you rejected all of them but every a number of those was it was it multiple number roads are just a few nulsary became a few because what happened was in and and shared this with the committee a month ago this is a nine one one book. And he didn't know the roads he didn't know who the deal but in the back of this book and i'll fastest round or whatever it list and this book is strictly for the purpose of list ever road alone up county for a few call for an ambulance at a certain location they could find. The green line shows that it's county roads now I was fortunate not that I had a lady this work there for over thirty years it was over nine one one and she is over the uh. And pay in this and then we take a list of our actual county roads in affairs a road on there that doesn't it's not uh restaurant as our county road she subtracts that off the invoice so what this was the you know tractor driver's stuff was given this book and so they may mower road but we we caught every one of those I mean because it it did you catch it all on an invoice already did you or the road form and ever catch it in why he was doing it say this is not a candy road were all of them called on invoices yes sir thank you thank you representative and I have a lot of people accuse of everybody be patient uh I am all ask here be concise and let's not ramble too much. Uh coach recognition yes let me ask you this we know what's been written up can ask yes from practice our conditions you know something was not right with the auditors. Why is there not some half of a plan for every week let's decide that you have a charter how many mouse georgia over a hundred over eight hundred eight hour rounds okay which got both room. Well why ignore a nearby turning and ever wait basically give us area that's been covered during that week of their contract well that that's what we're doing now I think that's why you haven't seen any of these issues in more than three years and in the bulk of these issues and more than four years that is required and that's a monthly there has to be submitted within thirty days of mowing has to have an encourage on or or mode on date at this point as every unique invoice number we we've instead of a number of additional controls to try to remedy these problems okay thank you thank you for uhm. Soon. Uh how old let him hold his place and come back we will now go to back to center gill more or what I promise is the last time we need to move on we get people who have been waiting patiently so II do I do appreciate the fact judge that you said that he would hear from constituents and I believe you would I know county judge is probably given as many phone calls a state senators do and I got quite a few just in this week so I appreciate that however II did just sitting here get a text from. Someone who were the picture from the county with them a resident mowing their grass. And in the picture in the comment attached with it said that bruno not is not doing his job so that's just been wide and sitting here so I do think it's important to make sure that. There's some evaluation being dying with your supervisor county super road supervisor whatever it is to go in and make sure that you're getting. That concern will also we can take care of it. The we like what road is it can you send us the photo of i'm probably not going to to share the constituent or whatever from the county with you i'm sorry do you have come here what would you say now would you like to elaborate I didn't say anything okay so anything okay well I just I want to make sure I want to give you every every opportunity to comment well II we would like no eroded issue and take care of the issue see if they're okay with me sharing it sure thank you senator more center hammer back to you he'll pass praise lord were caught at place to love comes back here i'm sorry general berry thank you senator so I guess to follow up on center uh gilmore's question why didn't the county judge answer his question in city you are you asking to send that picture in the constituent to you instead of either one of us that's for so II guess my question for the judges who is the cheap executive officer of law note county. That would be me sir so with that position just like any. A major corporation or anything their responsible for the fiscal responsibility of that organization or in your case that counties that correct that is correct so. Ultimately you're responsible for the deep get payments correct. Thank you thank you and again it's our position no duplicate payments were made it's our position that we get invoices were submitted but that the payments were made for separate movies okay thank you general in senator liberty just told me that representative jean ask his question so we're. You just presume the US direct question representatively okay with the further questions. Staff recommends we accept this report is present okay that was a recommendation staff weeks those that doesn't preclude further actions and go through the other findings that we just that's up to that to the committee that committees been able to ask questions on if you have a question we were just on the first part of the mowing and we're not going to the other the other issues because you know there was I would like to hear somebody from aoc as to you know the draft that was presented to him on this personnel policy and where are we on there and be when you read the responses I was kind of offended by so by some of these responses because they were rather flipped toward the committee and toward audit and so I was just kind of curious as to. Bird one when they said they talked to alc and AOC has no recommendations for any changes so we are informed by staff that the canny clark is here when clark locked to come forward to if you would like to have some clerk questions we should have had lots of questions with other entities who have come and overpaid and what went on there or that kind of thing so i'm just curious is how that's all working out jim delve very comfortable chair period so here the rest of the afternoon i'm just trying to get this through the rest of him but it seems like that these are things that we often talk about in the we're just the floor if you have questions and you have specific way would you like to specify witnesses that she would like to join us there saying one from AOC here is there anyone for ministry of office of the court association socialist ac I don't believe anyone's present from the ac. That's that hurts my feeling mister or no i'm really hurt to these now here somewhere here i'm sorry maybe then that's fine but i'm not in favor of filling this report until I hear that these other issues have been added so I would just your motion to that we hold this out that we hold it over the clarks here if you were like that third question so I just refers that we hold it over i'd like to have some money from probably wise at this point so there's a second of that motion by and stay in the motion on favor say I posed okay thank you gentlemen thank you for coming to have heavy come back but we may even be a little bit better organized or are in next time in this can go through pretty quickly and I appreciate the clark coming in will get with folks with association accounts and make sure that they are teen just so we can have their advice and and they help they and the minutes play do help our folks to stay in compliance and we want what they most part of this process thank you for coming you're dismissed thank you we will uh now move to saying we're moving jefferson county thank you mister chair recognized mister continuing under the fair report on page worn in two we have jeff in county two thousand twenty two the corn court entered executive session during the media meeting held on december twelfth two thousand twenty two to view the two thousand twenty one r in our compliance with twenty five less nineteen dash one oh six also minutes did not document the review of the audit in accompanying finding something noncompliant with t and dashfor there's four eighteen this is the repeat finding and we have county judge geral robertson here today. To answer questions. And there's a side note this was deferred from the prior report to allow for additional information from court members of which we received a email today but it didn't really change things on this issue here it wouldn't related to this issue. Okay. To drove into. And the other generally people both introduce yourself to the record thank you senator uh can you just gerald robinson jefferson county. Ricky bill jersey cannot rose to continue okay. Okay judge you have the floor for thank you senator first of all thank you for giving me this opportunity to come back and uh gain um you know uh i've been in government county for thirty six years eighteen of those years have been with uh as an elected official and so I have had many dealings with leg added uh not and say that our balways agree with them but I have always respected leg added and uh so mister argument must we pay as some pretty deep conversations and at the end of the day uh lake added has done outstanding job at pointing out what it was statue it is and allow you to opportunity to look at those uh status and there was a uh deal with uh this which was the repeat finding uh in I do admit that it was a repeat finding uh although I argued the fact that uh it was audio and video we went into an executive session and we should not have done it should have been in a regular corn court meeting and it should have been documented by a statute reasons in the minutes so I do recognize that I am not here to uh ebay that or to disagree with their uh absolute correct when you know it say it's exactly by statute so uh shows appreciate your acknowledging there as you know four years man in the news a lot lately and there's even again they filed another initiated act that would frankly put some serious teeth in. I i'm troubled when a body does it as opposed to an individual office holder that doesn't respond to something but when you have case where you know you've got a corn court main executive session be limited to personnel matters or whatever and I discuss something it's not supposed to be done behind the closed doors and i'm appreciate you acknowledging that but I just want to emphasize that point two years you said that it is a statute and it's it's as long as you've been in in in carry german you know that these are very important and the public track to know something we're going to zealously defend and i'm grateful that the the staff caught there and the fact you're even download me a couple there i'm grateful for that and we hope we don't see that again but but I do want to make the point of emphasis because transparency is very important to do and I appreciate that you're exactly right and even there's county germans I have created on our website of transparency uh page on our website so that you can go back and look at our leg odd is all the way back from twenty ten I think it's important that people do know what it's going on in their local in and county government in a game II will say that there are some times that I do not agree with the findings but I will say that the auditors that I have been in contact with have been very gracious in a in and i'm not saying that loosely and they have been very gracious in listening to what we have to say even if there if we feel there's something is wrong uh they will sit down with us they will take notes and even if it's something that may have current that year they may address it the following year so uh again you you're absolutely correct uh in in as far as for you and trust me senator II have been sued for four year and in law state case and had to pay some money before you become a power had given all the information. In head not so I strongly agree uh with that the remedy for that is is that we will about that the statute we will have it in a regular meeting and I will make sure that it is documented in the minutes that uh so this will not happen again thank you for your questions for judge rams. Thank you so thank you for acknowledging the executive session portion I think it's important that we have transparency I think we all agree there so I guess the question I have concerned I have is. Was the audit findings discussed at all it in any of the recent uh core import meetings there was like thank you senator there was a we heard it on the corn court agenda for this past because I don't remember exactly the date that I received the finding so I can't uh with all the emails that I get sometimes it's called a hard to go back I think i'm about twenty five hundred emails that I have an open but there's not a feeling by so so we did attempt to put it on the agenda for this past monday in one of the one of the uh corporate members pointed out that it did not meet the uh notification so we uh uh address them is them being correct in receive the twenty four hour notice so we will uh in our next regular meeting discussed the uh. Okay so you and you intend to bring this discussion for sir the jps yes in a public form yes yes yes thank you chair on that while may have followed but thank you okay the questions could be replaced thank you miss chair thank you judge we present to being here today. Uh I noticed that you had a he had a road project that went over about ten percent of the bed cash can you explain that to us yes II think we're talking about uh getting comes rolled I called it my deem enrolled we had a instant where we were in the process of uh uh hot makes it repaving that road in the process of them fixing the road we started to the road started to dear deteriorate in parliament that means the started so the aspiral started separating while they were doing the work my employees that we had as far as the road department were in other areas in so it was a problem that was happening in real time in so we did not foresee that the sub base or the uh foundation of the role was in their bear the shape so we had the the contractor he went ahead and doubt those based parts I would think of about about five by its past that we had to dig out quite a bit and after we dug all that better out we found out that uh in i've only been counted just six years didn't know anything about how they fixed roads and all those good things but got down to about sixteen inches maybe eighteen inches and it had a combination of trees and some other materials uh to pick their role I guess the but the trees that was all about I guess it was the band whatever materials that are here but the contract to get out at that at that time and it rain into a little bit more money so uh that's kind of high when over because it was happening in real time and that's why I did not rebate it because it was happening. And we had uh school business traveling we had the garbage trucks traveling on one in everything was fine uh on another end it was just it was given away did you do a change order on the road now no I did not I did not in the senator will meet their again it was in real time we need it to we needed to repair it and get it done and so the suggestions of the uh blake are it was that we should have possibly made an uh contract or guard a rebate II cannot argue the rebate process because it was happening right there but I do understand uh you know as it was explained to me that we we should have done that so to protect the county in the future so that we won't do that we will take those fair bicycle guard and make sure that it doesn't happen again thank you. One more question please. The paper here that you were held in contempt of court and did I hear you side letter in that article there you do the same. Senator at let me explain the accident representative of their saver le- let let me explain this alone i'm a little above a senator okay well I will get it to the out you guys can help but I will get it the issue in we will appeal the the decision uh you would have had to be there to understand why I made those stateme. One hand say that he could not tell me how to do my job and on the other hand he said I was being an arbitrary and capricious not understanding that when that was say it that the share of south as is unique there is no other department everything is county general does not reseparate budgets and so if that department was the only one creating that situation that how I just felt like how could you compare it to apples to oranges so if I had to do all we need in our would continue to do the same thing because. Across budgeting in different thanks was going on and so I don't want to say too much more representative because there is going to be an appeal okay thank you okay thank you center hammer. That commissioner i'd like to speak to the finding regarding the share of and i'd like to you question judge and then chair would loud with the. Wants to give the share of the response that response it was written that was written. By the sheriff is that correct. Uhm. Not sure which is speaking of senator okay make sure i'm on the right one this is a finding. For some page one it should not yet midway slap blow me it's the finding of funds of two thousand two hundred seven thousand three thirteen were restricted for share of communication purposes and we're expenditure for food purchases in non compliance and there there's a response to did you write to response or did the share fraud to sponsor the road to respond to the sheriff and the right of response and I mister can you enter center hammers question do you know the sheer responded to his own violence so it addresses in here that the preparations were woefully insufficient to meet detention operation needs as early as second quarter of that year uhm. You are involved in the budgeting for the appropriation for the operation of the detention center correct I am partly responsible for the uh the corn court passes the budget appropriate budget okay and is that II know you all have a juvenile detention center down there that is not the juvenile detentions there this is the the county chill it's been reference here's that correct I believe so okay so i'd like to ask you to because your name is referenced in the response i'd like to hear here response to the response at the sheriff has written well II have not viewed the share for spots but I can't tell you that the share proceed several additional appropriations to uh to point its jail uh we know where whenever it was ask so to say that there was not an appropriation to uh be supposed for his needs uh I believe in that to be true. Chairman may be appropriate time if you'd allow the shared come to the table please. Are we through with the previous issues that just keep us in chronological order. Is sure here he'd like to come to the table. Excuse you to bring you back we will say when mister bowl I don't think it would be necessary mister but will we'll see. Sure please ship for the record chief lawyer would just can you stay thank you sir. I believe senator hammer has a question for you on the armonk page two senator hammer thank you is share my question I guess is where are you now I mean the finding here response to the finding is a tributing it to me and sufficiently funded for operating the detention center can you tell us where you are now and i'd like to just to speak to your response please. Yes sir thank you soon hammer that responded to those actions that could or in a satisfaction again and sufficient point it was actually present who net year period subsequently also was filed. Under the final lawsuit. I think media scrutiny published scrutiny there were several support appropriations that were provided to shifts office to city make us hole. And because the judiciary says around slow time we are rather see the court date the case became a new point in their case was dismissed because there were several some minutes operating finding separation day provided office. And so since their time is is shipped from a matter of. Insufficient foreign to deliberate observing differences who review in the coin process with lending this back in court for repeat denial of processing claims which the countries support briefly to we did go back the court for contempt a court on order they said that. If the clients were presented to the changes offers they have to be received from the county clerks office. And there was a fish in finding what they were. Probably coding from where the fine will come from any speaker no fraud those were processed without delay nonetheless we continue to suffer deny your clients with the court being are trying to precious compare to the process declined for the officers. And so there was a finance contempt I don't think there's a final order in the case but the judge defined the challenges you can tell that order and so that's what we are but in terms of funding right now it's not the issue of a lack of finding because. Getting claims properly process any efficient farm especially when it comes to the central things like full for detainees that we hold our custody so that's where the layers now. Okay are thank you thank you sir here thank you sure any other questions for share poorers. Coach recognized sure crashed your question please on the last paragraph it mentions a hundred and two thousand also sixty five thousand four years ago and also one hundred seventy one is that morning paid out to other places to whole pressures or is that the budget for the clearing. Representative I am i'm not sure if I follow specific document to referring to what what are you referring to it's the last paragraph of that issue that page one of our report. Is a start in two thousand nineteen what the hard two thousand barbourting to send me two hundred seventy five percent restriction then in two thousand and nineteen sixty five four eighty five ninety two uh in forty six eight eighty seven and then in the year twenty twenty one seventy one six fifty six falling for where where are those who break downs representative fight of the various categories of permissible uses under their fond were paid out uhm in order to show uncomparison of there are some years that we were under. The actual mail to be paid out based on the statue um really solidify on a response to that although we should be over. There were several years that we were under in terms of spaining there was allocated to that portion. Yes or not that our funding no sure what is that fun enforce it just for general operations of the jail there are several aspects of it is the restrictive on the farn is used for uh training of all of a service it can be used for salaries it could be used for equipment for the department and there are some portions of it and categories of our budget they can use for operation a niece and upgrade for other um technology equipment to better serve or improve our radio communications system okay so you would have another budget that were actually be on top of their for normal day today county operations yes yes sir so the our jails that juvenile the **** facility also the adult could still be that operate in manage do not receive foreign from the catherine fine there's a quarter since hell tax press and the billion of the construction of the jail. Uh it brings in average one point six one point seven million. To remain their budget it takes roughly four point two um to operate the dog the remain of the budget that we use to operate a revenue is internal revenue we bring in from least of spares pays for the state prisoners holding of state prisoners federal prisoners in may found paper stay several different categories of finding that we bring in internally to support opportunities of the jail same thing for our junior attention it operates policy of attacks to remain the money it takes to operate their facility come from listen to his best place to other counties as you know there in fact counting organization of setting fire counties the only team that operate a junior tenth of soldiers so you can imagine with the influx of june requirement uh feels to these had demand right. Thank you sure for her say hammer thank you this is just more for me to get education but as I read this multiple years it says that you understand does that mean that you were under budget for page cape me on what that means understand by the procedures that we could allocate up to uh we can spend of the seventy five percent and we were under an amount you know this restricted fine so uhm. It's considered we are supposed not to primary fine and so therefore grows there are permission but you saturday fine and so because of the restrictions but also the revenue we bring into it. Uh often times we're understand by the amount that we could allocate of two max amount which is taking five percent and those restrictions are placed on that is that through us as yes or state or through federal states that you stay such okay all right thanks thank you for the other questions. Okay thank you sure for coming the table thank you dismissed now any. Is everyone else from jersey county officials would like to respond to this and where I had to be quick on it but had certainly not want to cut anyone off the three years or feel come to the table and identify yourself for the record. Lloyd franklin the second uh just the peace difficult jefferson county in mister franklin avenue let me point out how did not call you back because we were going to be here today and I like to do everything on the record instead of in private conversation which you did attempt to get a hold of me in the whole region I didn't call you back is that it's pay you might be witnessed here and I didn't want to be involved in the next part of conversation so help you appreciate that in your recognized fear of a statement alright I do recognize this so first I would like to thank everyone for allow me to come here to speak today in I just want to touch on a couple of things for the past few years the corn court has not been able to review legislative article reports in public and I just want to say it a little light on the statements previously by the county judge that the corn court tried to go into executive session when in fact it was the county judge and maybe wide specific corn court memory they tried to urge you the corn court into an executive session with the county attorney being there in occasion this reviewed in that take place in executive session in back for into the meeting last month where we talked to the candidates and we talked about hey you're out of compliance for the payout several years in reviewing the legislative audit report in uh soon and hammer healed off or acts to to for the file to be deferred in that filed since then the corn court was supposed to review the legislative findings well what has happened is the core court may meeting was scheduled and it was not on the agenda applying getting to the corn court agenda we see a new agenda on a jumbo trian with them mark there they says acknowledge agenda and so I stayed to the canada it's first out where in violation of four years because union put the legislative idea of report on the actual agenda and notification to the parents as well as the corn court members to notify. We're going to be dealing with the legislative lottery reports secondly our point versus applying voicing my opinion I know they're elected officials just as tea at hard and stated that we don't have to review the legislative idea report we only need to acknowledge involved that we received it and the agenda stated technology meant of the legislative report and I just want to stay for the record that in that uhm violation's narrative that we emailed out to the chairman into minister item number one on their supports the fact that we did have a comport meeting here in two and the carriage is still defying this particular committee on reviewing the legislative idea reports in public among the interruption for moment mister appreciate you coming out appreciate you sharing the sun steps that is not with the permit this committee to get into a back and forth between any either the collective corn core of jerusalem candy or the are any specific jp and jersey and county and carry judge or any other local official because if you are it is not our the auditors provide do you the committee can provide you with our report in york and discuss it in how we want to we don't control your agenda nor review how you do that so you might have some legitimate points but that's outside the pervie these community and my job as chairman is to keep us between the land on what we're actually supposed to be working out so so II appreciate you have issues that you want to bring forth with your colleagues and with other people in the community and other officials that's fine but there's not something we need to deal with here today so if you would just if you have something aside specifically about the report and not how you got there so to speak about certainly we'll be glad to hear that but. To let's please don't try to get us into your your local stuff is we just got to deal with the actual findings in the art in any respond you might have to in that case then you know get to prayers text it this particular point is a member of the core of court where we're asking for is a four forensic guided budget under the county judge gerald robertson more specifically even on a side note what we need is a or we are requesting is a special investigator and especially prosecuted to look into a legal activities that have been reported to their god it is well it's findings they have been found by their god what we have come to believe is that items in illegal acts that have men determined by legislative added which have been referred to to the arkansas day police which had been confirmed and investigated and presented to the prosecutor for prosecution okay let me catch you operate there these are issues that may or may not be need to be brought up. In the way to handle this and i'm more recommended to you in the garage I don't tell local officials how to do their business which franklin i'm just gonna give you suggestion. You could address a letter to uh represent him gas way in uh senator wallace who are the chairman of the let's slave drawer out in committee and if they wish to bring this up in our arding executive committee in head the legislative our to mister why take it look into their since determined what would be appropriate if this committee she should do something then i'm they would be glad to receive that letter and and consider it but but this particular committee is effective subcommittee of their executive committee and that the full committee and that's that's not within our our job description so I recommend that the the allegation changes made out keep you from doing it but the property needs to do that would be probably in a letter to our coach of the legislative john I think really and it would be up to in consultation with the staff for the executive committee to consider how to have a responder there so let's you can come back in in talk about the things that are on these two pages then you know I guess we base clear down here that say senator johnson I would like to request a disparticular marry here would still be deferred being that the comport still has not had an opportunity to review legislative are defined is in the past that's a legitimate appointment to make but that's up to the committee in our would turn it to the committee in asking that. The peace franklin is that this should possibly be deferred and I would is there anyone member committee that would consider lettering discussion on that matter. Sir hammer like. You know much chair I think it'd be appropriate because i've always felt that when someone's name gets involved they are at least have a chance to respond. So we could have clarity i'd like to get the judge back up to the end of the table and. It's a chair would allow an and I don't care for a big back and forth I just like to hear back and forth in our hammers so that's perfect okay in the judges coming there and we will we will see to your request I just like to hear why it's not been reviewed and then i'd like to ask the chair and staff a question police okay judge you recognize thank you again again there was an attempt to address this I have acknowledged uh that we did it in an executive session in that that was wrong and I have it stated to uh that we will review it in the next uh regular core and court meeting he have no problem with that I just is that the peace franklin who uh mentioned there was a email set uh I would like to have a copy of the email if there was some allegations or anything like that I think uh best blind side it's a tactic to see allegations to this committee that I know nothing about and I think that to at least have been uh uh notified that this happened but again for this committee thank you thank you for this committee the discussions represent a hammer central hammer that we will discuss it in the next corn court meeting uh there are some III will also state that we are under litigation. Uh senator as you say it you're not here to get in between the pool by the courts are going to handle that. But uh as that state to you today that we will discuss it in depth in the next core court meeting follow up mister yesterday and send her home judges or anything. That the core court members are doing. That is prohibiting or giving you full ability to be able to have this odd finding discussed in a open. Uh senator hammer right now uh. Jefferson's county so this functional is that we're having uh due core court meetings meetings uh within meeting carbon my office then meeting called uh a majority in all the core court members that not being notified of the meetings and it's just so many different things this is partial that's in the core and so I don't want to get into that but now this let me get let me from that thing up to judge please thank you thank you all I need to know where when your next j p w internet horn court mainly scheduled a next corn court meeting will be scheduled the second monday of august so on the second monday if if I may look at my house as far. Uh it will be august a twelve show on august the twelfth we are being able to hear in the media that this has been presented to the corn court in appropriate discussions. Have occurred yes that it will be okay all right uhm. Thank you sir hammer and I haven't I want to give we're not going to get in your local issues especially the one there and litigation charge but when you say there's multiple court court meetings and that's not allowed on the constitution and and we're we don't want to see you come back in and have to answer that so we hope you all get that all work so gilmore. And and recognize there's a lot of political in fighting fears and the judges outlined some of that uhm some of its very concerning now you get to work through that being said and I think they're there's an obligation for this are it to be or these audits to be reviewed by the corn court and then subsequently come back to us and I would like to ask and i'll put in the form of emotion that we defer this until the core court has met uh I believe in august and their review process takes place and what comes back and we get confirmation of that okay and we're not meeting in august as my understanding is that correct next meets in september we will meet in september she should give you time to to work out a great church senator hammer that that it there is a motion that is your second second by representative g say hammered you want to speak on the motion yes sir i'd like speaker on the motion I don't think the motion needs to be amended but I think it needs to be clearly communicated that if this is not discussed in the august twelfth meeting because of either side judge or **** that they are served notice that they will be back at the next meeting to give account and to answer I think they hear you should would you mean that motion center. Why don't you restart the motion as a mandate I will and and we we've had confirmation from the judge that he's going to do that and so I mean for all intense of purposes here we assume that he will in the court in court meet accordingly so to that end my motion would be that we defer this so that they have their meeting to review in august whatever that date was and then they bring it back with confirmation that that happened per center hammers uh suggestion thank you and okay with your review what you want to motion to sell accent or hammer it sure I believe that'll be in the september would be the hour separate him that's right and I know can I say to all parties involved we respect. Jerfs and counties right to work their stuff out we were things that in this building sometimes and we don't all agree and we'll respect but we do expect you to have something definitive that you have talked about it internally income back to us with the report on that in our september meeting uh with that it more discussion on the motion representative dollar thank you mister chair i'm just going to go on record saying they'll be voting now because it appears to me that we are now dictating how they conduct their business in the county and that's my reason for voting now but thank you as you say church sometimes we disagree with in this room too my friends are representative dobbling don't agree on this i'm i'm more lenient to give you that opportunity for you all the work things out but the orders to make a habit of it because you know we have a very narrow job to do here and I don't want us to constantly be slow in that process dance entering where you have to come because i'd like to speak on the other side of that I don't feel that we're dictating to the county what to do I think we're just stating clearly what we as a committee are going to do if they don't feel whether they choose to do so or not that is their business they can handle that locally but I think we need to be clear as a committee that this is not going to drag on any longer this is drug on long enough and at the next meeting that we have opportunity to do so we're going to take a very clear position on it and so I would just counter and I have ultimate respect I would just counter that in my opinion we're just making it clear that. That we will take action at the next want to give the opportunity for them to take action between now and then thank you sinner one discussions as I made the motion to my colleague representative who I have great respect for a disagree respectfully on that and II don't believe that we are dictating I believe that we are just making sure that we know all the facts as this comes back that they've taken appropriate action and so that's that's all the series I don't believe were dictating but thank you for your. Concerned in thank you sir you're more and getting clearly we have a responsibility here frankly the clear these things offer documents and that's what we're going to do and we want cheers and carrying for all parties in bob get us their information then we can act accordingly and i'm appreciate the idea of asking you to to be all to get back with us in september I think that's plenty of time if anyone disagrees it's a snail the term divorce that but hopefully young have that worked out by then and we will be have some final review this in september is that any other comments on the motion. Representative of question to staff if someone on this committee happened to recall it how many votes would that require. Let me checking for us believe me our our new calls she knows it might take their second political but she can answer that question can I know how well the chair will know you're here no vote if you would like representative we don't have to roll call it to get that problem that was just by pocket senator gilmore that's why I think you can suspend taking sheets off here of the hoop for now yes okay no further discussion so this is on the motion I think is anyone not understand the motion okay all in favor of say I opposed to the chair will not there was one by representative he against the motion motion passes for poor clarification yes sir do we want are we inviting the judge back to present this documentation imperson we have borrowed her zone sight mail if they provide it to the turn to skin we present it for them and then if it's not there they might into the october meeting or do we need to just go ahead in expect robs and back in september these minutes to us judge before you answer are you okay we're coming back in september this worker that you have to do that sounds good to me i'll provide you media and documentation hook well the point is as can I judge you you call the main strategy and the fact that you have the meeting is is meets our requirements I believe our requirements are the motion and any report back to the fact that it was held so I think I think we're all an agreement on the at the end structure thank you judge thank you thank you so much just thank you all for coming and it didn't see in september two clarified that documentation needs to require that the these three these findings were discussed in linked then quickly action to it code read. Thank you thank you mister number three seven third report on paints. This would be city. Okay we'll I know our people leaving a whole produce to if everyone police were we we are not a journal but i'll pause from one way to give everyone it's not going to stay rapporteuring to leave the room but we need to come back and just so thank you those that need to leave let's move our private conversations out in the hall. Okay okay bradley charter city breathley for two thousand twenty two twenty one and twenty under the mayor and recorded treasure restricted fund for previous years of ten thousand dollars and sixteen hundred dollars or not transferred to the street found from the general foreign and the water and through a revenue fine respectively additionally other restrictive funds. From a part you're told in overnight in three thousand dollars or do to the solid waste for from the general phone when these outstanding amounts are considered but do not find out of deficit foreign ballots of seventy seven thousand seventy four thousand in ninety eight thousand for twenty two twenty one and tony respectably this is the repeat in the five reports in two thousand and fifteen and we have mayor jason morton here to ask quest okay mayor you recognize. This are took place before me uhm. Uh I really don't have any answers then on the. And the road found back what we have what we're going to do is in our next council meeting which is next thursday night we're going personal resolution to pay it back. Uh ten percent. Okay and you will provide that to staff that you press that there are solutions yes sir need an order and yes tell if they do over ten percent they'll have to do a resolution or ordinance correct resolution than soccer it's correct all right any questions representing g mayor also the only selling of the assault raffles that under you or the prior administration yes sir that was under me okay who do you sell it to actually it was so to me. Okay you bought it yes okay by and there we have a receipt and all that for okay by thank you sir okay for the questions for the mayor. Yeah. Without objection thank you discuss. Thank you banks you need to come in on this one okay there's no objection the report we file my thank you for come thank you continuing very reports where the town of view more on pages seven and eight privilege just like point out there's no relation to just something my future heavily the introduced yourself for the record and incident you believe we were not going to hang you with anything senator gilmore is okay money music mayor boost name from the city markets are yes who had a report show do not find a foreign balance deficit of a hundred and one dollars in addition of on december thirty first two thousand twenty two the general for the old significant amounts of balances due to the street for our equipment and training for when these outstanding balances were considered the general phone had a def- foreign balance that will eleven thousand dollars this is the repeat van the previous three reports to two thousand and nineteen would like to add that the city of uh give more his has passed the ordinance to repay this point the ten percent over ten percent a year so they've already done that part of it okay. And you concur with that you're yup done there yesterday also needs where you turn out of our parliament we have to make so we don't think we have a constraint now is give his street paid out in the evening work on these try to get a deal because I don't want to be the computer okay you you come up in a moment for president he we've got one more finding can you wait until staff has told us that there are recognition quarter treasure the recorder treasurer who's also the payroll prepare received reimbursement of seven hundred and seventy three dollars for that adequate supporting documentation now complies the fourteen fifty nine one o five therefore we were unable to determine the priority of these payments this is also a repeat finding in this finding was referred to the prostitute attorney. All right representative makes me sure disturb mister question your town only has a population of less than two hundred so pretty small town what is your annual revenue and what's the chief source of that revenue. What your town ball or you know what what your budget for the year I don't have a budget read before me but. Like ten thousand hundred thousand nine hundred might be about ombudsman said fifty obvious maker i'm not i'm not much I haven't had from my say something is true I was signed on his rather which we we appreciate it's up to everything and makes cried staff look that is nine nine thousand dollars in the last report ninety nine thousand okay and so it's about ten percent of the annual budget to get that deaths that pay for what's your chief income source for the city do you have like a business there for sales tax or not so. They have a sale of tax sale tax in state aid and sale tax were about about half of what they are taking mad part of this kind of near your make sure you have the ability to pay these things back because when you start getting down to population that low you know at some point if the population continues to decline is it worth continuing in that incorporating back into the county i'm saying so I think I just want to make sure you have the world with all the continue operating as a city in the funds to do that I thank you yes thank you very pleasantly it makes sure the questions for the minor. That's down you're not people have a question okay. Okay. Any other questions if not is your motion to file. Represent dobbie representatives. On favor say hi opposed correct it's filed thank you mayor thank you for coming thank you sir thank you. Continue with the deferred reports on page nan we have the city of harxey two thousand twenty. One of the mayor on december fourteenth two thousand twenty one the city council approved hundred and ten thousand dollars long to accompany in part by the city attorney the loan funds originating with the cities reuse for such going there can't be purchased layer partially owned by the mayor and built storage units within the city the hox administration administrative board of directors are reviewed the company's loan request but did not require a submission and belong application in our complaints with playing policy city officials indicated that the board approved approval of reuse loans without a application of the regular practice this report was referred a deferred in the previous committee meeting to allow for this on information from a concerned citizen who also happened to be a city council member we received. The digital information from two different sources. Uhm it is. Staff's recommendation that the committee be referred to the prostute and attorney which is a change from port was in the previous meeting and and filed the report. Is there anyone from hoxy here i'd like to address please come forward and introduce yourself the record. This. Push button to the red light comes out i'm nancy holland city attorney civil gray and in the mayor fox okay thank you mayor who was going first as all my year there was not a restriction of any sort of an application from a company that was partially owned by a city attorney I need to also define that as the city attorney I am not an official or an executive or even on the same power as a council member or as a city clerk i'm an employee I but you you you are our full time city turning so you were an attorney that is retained by the city to be your civil the civil state I am employed forty hours a week or create you yes benefits if they want me to take water payments i'll be there at the water department I understand small towns work thank you I do have a separate practice where process if i'm able to there are certain things I can't do I can't do anything criminal related we do have a criminal city attorney separate from myself but I cannot do there's things that the city counts on the bear have a limited me from doing um but they have to come first there the primary job there was not a restriction on employees being a part of it it was approved by the reuse committee I was not in the room for the approval process. I announced ahead of time that I was a part owner of the business that was asking for the reuse funds. Based on that we actually have had a meeting since then where the head of the reefs committee as well as another member of the reuse committee confirmed they understood completely that I was a house owner of the business that was asking for the loan. One of the findings was about the funds needing to bring jobs to the city of haxing. I brought five full time jobs to the city of hoxi with this proposal because I also moved my law firm. To the city um so I brought with it the full time employees that worked there for that plus the employees for the business field haul lc which is what I own part of the part of the business as we have not been laid on any payments we as far as I see there's a finding stating that uh there were reasons used to purchase a lot that was partially owned by the mayor. I put my interruption just moment of house and this is just if i'm thinking this may be there some other members committee thanking this uh mister specifically what is the finding in itself have to do with the rules of the reuse jobs to me that's fine good i'm I don't know if it's a violation what exactly what it is because that reading between the lines that's all I could seek clarify the finding was the original finding was that they didn't follow their plan policy with their and that's what was state which was in there adopted pass correct and it was their standard operation policy which was also noted there and you know originally we we accepted their their response and was going to end requested report be refiled but the committee asked for to be deferred after hearing from the concern citizen to give additional time for information that uh you know once we received it it's it doesn't change the finding but it does it it doesn't it gives outside the scope of what we're looking into therefore we were going to recommend the prostreation attorney take a look at it. Car may or prosecuting attorney for the city poxies the one that wrote the loan papers this appears to be the fact that there was no longer application that has been rectified the city council did pass this past month a complete new reuse loan process and I believe it will buy with only one objection and that would be the concerned citizen you're talking about who's a council member of I was trying to go by the actual finding because the actual finding was saying that. I purchased bland from the mayor i'd purchase the land from the mayor the august before this long was funded in february or the request was made in december so I don't know what that particularly had to do with that uhm I also have been able to show very clearly and I provided this to hopefully it has reached you all that the funds that were in hackfilled hall sea at the time of the long request were double what we even requested so this was not a matter of. We need this money in order to give the mayor money that that was not the case whatsoever unfortunately because of what was said here II believe the actual quote when you all said you would close it then we had mister powers and uh mister picky who I will agree and I don't want to all the have to get into this but this is a personal issue state specifically uh power stated I think the issue is not a lack of transparency but deception outright deception the crux of this issue so that's the reason you will invited me here I didn't understand why but I do appreciate the fact that you would allow me to there's a some members they have questions so let's talk about him start absolutely a representative it makes. Can you hold serious. I'm i'm sorry I heard you mentioned two names would you mind just clarifying who they are you said that had filled hall LLC never know that the two the two names that you mentioned just second ago courty power that would be the council member dare pickening okay and what are those two gentlemen do there is so you get a council member and what's mr powers to I have no idea he just inserts himself okay thank you okay makes that deal with chairman michael my question I guess is it is going to start staff here what is the law or the animal standard for cities loaning taxpayer money to and private energies that means that something that cities generally do what's the law there that's the purpose of the reuse of federal you will use program and they're pretty common throughout the state of work several years ago and they're still a few of them still out there and it was tomorrow recollection it's too book booster industry within the city so this is federal taxpayer money goals to the cities of the cities can and loan that money out with the expectation they're going to get it back in a certain interest rate in the reuse part of it is to continue to return it over and over and over and over to the boost change I want unlike general fund money which wouldn't be appropriate to use they can use the specifically can use that everything so it's right of my understanding I just want to get clarity that this is not general taxpayer funds that are going to private coming back so so can it count to come back here to the witnesses I like I guess this is the maybe the concern here is the no appearance of evolve that maybe that seems to be kind of worth signing was that my understood however these expecific funds for reuse I believe there's only two cities with remaining funds in the reuse that's been defenalized we have gone through the entire uhm there I mean i've got a stack of papers i've had to go through the cfr and everything else to. Try to figure out are these funds funds that could have been converted over to the general fund were we able to keep every use fund because it is something that harxey has accelerate they have almost three hundred thousand dollars remaining in in the reuse fund and it is used very sparingly you have to be I mean I had to put my house up for this my business partner had to put his house up for this these are things that we would not have done if the money had not been deep federalized and actually permitted to do it minder standing of the error was that there was not a complete reuse plan with an application that really laid out now that we're no longer under this federal system the adc system how will we employment this plan and it did take to three months of revising and letting the other council members you know have some sort of say and then try to marry that in with what the the law and put the legislative auditor in familiar with you know what this is from purpose clarification. It would it be sight to say that you have a federal program which has rules and procedures and energies or defender last which I can lack that word it was it's now a locally operated program that the rich original cap law the mine was a was federal money but net kind of a defective revolving find and because there was no local or state replacement for the federal rules there's there's no guidelines on on what you do in the question appears to be continue operating under the mayor that the federal rules were or how do you transition to some other thing i'm seeing that about what's going on I believe you're completely correct and you said it far better than I did and with more brevity okay make please continue i'm sorry I think there was good net my my my only remaining question was is what's the terms of the loan how much you're paying every month how long will take for the long to be repaired just that basics of the the terms of the loan they always have to be paid off in ten years we had a originally asked in my business partner is today bobby have feel but you know I don't think he wants to get right if you don't have to uhm but the terms of the long we'd ask for a hundred and twenty five thousand dollars they had come back and stated now we you know we were all removed from the room obviously because we had no business being in their while they negotiated through the terms it's at the time the prevailing rate was three three point five percent we had to pay back in ten years I believe the payments are falls in eighty eight. Ten eighty seven seventy four we are current in all of our payments and I don't want my house to be taken and I don't think mister taken so it will stay that way itself sounds like everything seems to be in order thank you thank you. Uh howard did you question well but representative dobby added member fee were in the queue or not. I will defer more senior member the house. Representative jean europe claimed which chairman you said it's open that you said the prosecuting attorney was paid to work on this or something that would you say it because the prosecution turned or a deputy prosecuting authority the prosecuting attorney that does the prosecution for the city of hoxing okay so it would be a democratic mechanic level you don't have deal haven't it's actually on the local level it would the the county level be defined holder you know that i'd like okay so you all have a paid prosecutor attorney for the cd harksy or is it the cammy for the city is the department prosecutor that handles your cities issues in my reading that correctly so when you say just prosperity attorney I thought the elected party from you judicial difficult paid I thought no I keep that there happen okay all right i'm i'm clear I do have a motion at the proportion time okay thank you sir representative by an incer. I'm sorry you're exactly right my apologies to the whole committee representative dollar but you're in then represent anybody and then say hammer thank you mister chair I appreciate that i'm just i'm sorry I didn't catch the gentleman i'm sorry in catch your name in your position i'm sorry i'm dennis cargains i'm the mayor of hoxy and how long have you been the mayor to almost two terms of eight years are you for terms six terms six years ago so twelve years and you live there in hawks yes ma'am okay what's your address there and hawks in one oh one rose gardens addressed and hoxey okay thank you. Now representative. A question for stay in jist to refresh my memory last meeting the recommendation from stay up for us to approve the report a move move forward and you said because of concerned citizens in information that you received here there certainly that's changed to refer to prosecuting attorney. So do members of the committee know what information was received that changed your opinion or changed your position a. Could you share that with us the the information we received information actually we listed to receive some today that we have not had opportunity to to review we see some earlier last week that uh brilliant guilt outside our scope is for its legal action if whether or not this was followed in a legal manner or not so we were gonna let the price we recommend it's prosecuted turning make that decision with an audit because it's outside our scope that help it's a legal determination well not not at all and and that's my best I guess my question is that interpretation for something that's not within the scope of what legal it does in what this committee is doing why should that hold that the approval of this report and and move in forward that is that the pleasure of the committee of you I want to file it i'm not going to stand it sounds to me like it's just another one that he said he said an issue that we talked about earlier from the chairman's ruling that we're not going to get into those issues with a network representative by this this program i'm seeing a question airs the feds had some money and like they always do they have rules and then they're their program goes away but he still got this minor involving fund but the rules went away the question is are there rules and how do we figure this out there's a prosecuting attorney kid involved I think that uh what mister she's saying it's still a decision for this committee we can file this report and if some citizen burn it legal exaction lawsuit or whatever wants to step forward and bring some then maybe it's not quite culture but that's not our place probably to do that which is general it's over here sir if you'd like to speak our would urge you to go to the end of the table our recognition both the. To german yes may I thank mister chairman i'm sorry representative dollar turn your markov i'm sorry I thought it was on uh he's coming in to i'm i'm kind of confused as to the procedure so that's why i'm asking the substance and maybe there will help me understand what we're supposed to be doing if we file then in send to the prosecuting turning or the attorney general sounds like there may be a conflict in the prosecuting attorney's office because you've got a departy prosecutor in there that's given legal advice sounds like but if we deferred can be to the process to the age office also I just stopped now the procedure and I want us to do the right thing I don't know what represents what motion come forward and that I think I think with with the what what staff said they see a need for it to be set on and I just want to make sure we get our motion in the right we have the right to share that question thank you because why you recognize that keep mister chair thank you representative of the arbiso I went back and listened to the audio in the video of last month's meeting to make sure that I was clear what we were doing today and so the request for the deferrals three fold one was to allow time for our staff to receive two interested citizens for your request to refresh a recollection they spoke about it uh in for us to respond to that the second part of the deferral was to provide additional documentation that they alleged at the end of the table that they had and they submitted all of that to us and then the third part of the deferal was to allow the mayor the opportunity in the city attorney the opportunity to come in and then we had the opportunity to get all of their additional information we assessed it we reviewed it it was opinion it was a lot of opinion it didn't change the underlying facts of our first in initial audit report that's why it was our recommendation based on it being opinion you know kind of that nature. To go ahead and send it to a prosecuting attorney because it wasn't factual enough for us to uhm substantiate changing our actual factual auto report does an answer question representative dollar does that may I ask miss why a commission in this regard because it from what we heard a few moments ago there may possibly be a conflict in that prosecuting attorney's offi. Which my memory cause i'm sorry and thought about this in a while we then send it to the attorney general's office and then to the supreme court asking the supreme court are to the prosecutor's association who would we send it to the **** for a prosecutor outside of the county to look at well I feel as if according to what I heard miss whole say that it probably was not the elected prosecutor correct but someone in that office we would send it to the elected prosecutor the constitutional obligation to accuse is on the problem the presidency would reach out to mister mcmillan's office who I know you are familiar with that's pco my former office in the special prosecutor would be appointed but we can order can stind it to the ages office at the same time and that's what we do but II can remember the process and I thank you for the automatic thank you I mean brought to you and let let me let me clarify something for both the audience and members here mainly for our audience when we refer something that prosecutor we're not saying we think these people have conducted a criminal act and we're we want you to go go after now we're asking you to use your legal expertise to say that all these things were done properly within the law and with the auditors provide the information and but you know I mean many of them are lawyers but they're not all lawyers so we're seeing when we do that it's not a presumption of some criminal wronging it's just to presumption of there's some things that our step might not have heard the expertise to unrevel and we're asking the prosecutors to take a look at that so that's what I think we're correct we've got wrong with what that's correct that where we are in this situation right now potentially but it's still the decision of this community that's right because the original report. Did not allow us to refer it it's the substantial information or this is a subsequent excuse me information that was submitted that allows this committee to to charge great it's at your discretion to have the legislative auditors in this new information along with our original report to prosecuting attorney in the attorney general and ended to clarify it's what it's the thing even further we do have many things that come for this committee that we're obligated to the law to refer them to the prosecutor the attorney general it's not an optional thing but this one is one is our discretion that are more recognized for a moment misall and then the other two german i'm a recognizing your partner in the backs waving its air if you need to come up to the table sir will we'll hear everybody but let's let's try to get the same pay and I would like to go back to what the legislative audit finding was which was that we didn't have a process at the city of hoxy in place along with an application that was the problem that's been rectified it was going to be closed then these two individuals got up and literally said that the city council if they had known that I was a part of the loan would never have approved a lot mister pickney was censured by the city council for having represented the city of hoxy as a individual he came in acted like he was the city and that he was answering for the city for something we've already gone back the century vote has been done everyone has a firm from the reuse committee on down that there was never any question and mister picny was completely confronted about this and he made it he had a stroke he can't remember things I don't know but the point is the head of the reuse committee looked right in the items that mister pittner you are wrong we talked about this we talked about it we we won't get in the finally that finding of. Fact right now is how I hammer but i'm not understanding my work spanding it when this is obviously like sometimes we finance its falling into a rabbit hole and then we have to go back extra cade ourselves you to gentlemen please introduce yourselves for the record and then we're going to hear from you and we'll allow this holiday i'm dare picning a citizen of harksy and also city couchman okay and chairman one of the time. Cody powers a member of the ballot legislative committee uh citizens for good government let me please note that I am a citizen wanna reach but I am the stood when it comes to campaign issues so I am helping the other committee members with this. But uh hearing what the organization is again it's a ballot question committee hoxy citizens for good government so it was a committee that was created to recall the sitting mayor okay so it was there was a petition to recall the mayor in this because see on that recall effort I understand that but that we really go and follow and arrive at all you're i'm i'm i'm just at the point the is the objection amongst everyone there this allow allow the prosecutors to actually add all this thing and come back and tell us that the prosecuting attorney for the city does not work for the elected prosecuting attorney anymore part of understanding I didn't know if that was clear but i'm the question that not getting the conflict of interest things this is represented all we were for that procusals on on the part of the prosecutor but basically what we're saying is lawyers look at this and see if this is okay I could very well see the need for legislation to clarify what happens one of federal program goes away but you still got this program we're going out to somebody have to promigate some some rules and and guidelines i'm not saying that's necessarily required but it could very well be and maybe we need to address it in the twenty twenty five session that has been done on behalf of the city of hoxi the uh council has voted on that and it was in its implemented by bowdens up yes what my resolution was what the um there was an action by the city council sitting up got some guidelines on this complete guidelines and and this point going forward there's compliance yes maybe not retroactively under the federal. Well there was a wouldn't have been excluded under the federal so conversation no time yes thank you sir you still have your microwave he pointed to responded there yes mister chairman let it be said i'll just want to make it just just a brief statement that in our last appearance and I can only speak from ourselves I cannot speak for mr picnic and there was some there was lack of clarity what had happened the law was a little further see again as well stated before this was a federal program february money because of course taxpayer money cannot be lounged out business state taxpayer money however that's for myself martin primary concern was what are the limits of the what what are the limits if if we can issue loans to employees so the officials whatever then where do we start but I know that that may not be the perview of this exact committee it may be again you're almost talking about a policy decision which is very much outside the perview of our committee in may even be something that the seri. The constitution does limit for example i'm confident that the city couldn't make a loan to a private individual from general find but this being an economic development funders probably uh loose her guideline which i'm not so sure we know what they say so i'm i'm all try to bring this to here and i'm please committee help me paying the outside she didn't get speak out recognize you before I recognize representative chair II have i've got a question i've got to have this committee. In june and and I was here to to observe and I found out that you were in the plan resolved in the hoxie issue so I was to speak so I spoke and I thought I think there's things that you don't know that you you're not aware of so you know as for recommendation to send much as sympathy to mister jones about ten days ago and also uh emailed to representatives here that another name and asked mister jones to get all that information everybody so you would have that headed term and look at step but still what is happened with alone where the legal air legalities are and I would in that group will also fifteen exhibits that documented on everything that at the end that you need to bring is to hear mister pretty okay okay real quickly. We can have after the june meeting the mayor called a special meeting to set me and the that meeting got. Council member where i'm going to be there but the following we could regular meeting and there was a long. The under the city attorney dealing with the video from that june meeting and at the end of the month to represent for a quick real quick I got very important i'll get out i'll get to the end with please quickly okay when I asked the council last the floor that forelands are tuesday meeting I said you watched the video how could through view sense of me in say that I was there represe. That was ever mentioned and the city atta. Legislative committee have notified that you said he was here so I need to know from this committee or them either did anybody know the mayor or the city attorney in say that I was here representing the fall that's what she is saying on tape in i'm free is going to be serious problems with uhm help bring this thing to some final to hear first of all uh every citizen sovereign and citizens can finally legal exact any citizen that any citizen can file an illegal exaction case so you know he may may not have standing in certain things I don't know judges and juries decide those things but i'm i'm going to start again also is not in our perfect but my question but I only want to give you an opportunity to speak for we move forward and I think we're about to do that so i've done that in appreciate what she said and I again knowledge your sovereignty as a citizen and will move on now I mean was this committee to but our many cities the acting appearance that I was representment and I don't recall and all address that right now mister paying somewhere I won't represent a more recognized representative jean to state his motion for chairman have had really do cause this is getting into a local matter I think we the best interest of this community would be to refer this to the proceeding attorney and let them sort it out and I make that emotion and there is emotion is there a second second representative dobby any discussion of the motion. Call favorite say I propose. I think we've made a decision thank you this is obviously it's gonna be reviewed for legalities I can see a big gap in the cla- click clarity of what in the law and what should be done when the fed's going that doesn't automatically mean that the city in the state have stepped in and we need to have something in the law that at least gives a procedure when you've had something that has become of the term deferral thank you for your time today and and giving me a voice thank you probably have to come back but we'll get it worked out thank so i'm sorry we're gonna have to move on thank you that was parliament report and referring it right to that refer here to make sure I got my notes right so you're off the heart okay lecture yes next report on the reference city alexa is anyone here from the city election. Staff recommend we deferred this report to get them here discussion on lecture if not. If you want microphone will be glad to hear what yet. Introduce yourself the record sir. I am state the excellent field right up for the arguments all municipally and speaking of works II have not made any contact with the folks at lexla and though my counterpart mister bush from that area his mate efforts to contact them in regards to this finding and I know she's working on it but as now have not had a response back from her on what she has discovered. Okay we need to since we have no real anything from election we will we will without objection we will defer thank you sir for coming up moving on to report there have been ferred to the prostruction attorney in the attorney general for office we have full reports the first better goose can't water use association and we have staff member michele actually here to present the foreign it's on page eleven and twelve of the s. The spatter groups can't water users association is a non profit corporation that revods water services to approximately two hundred users in a rural area of john johnson county and it's government based six member board of directors in december of last year we presented to this community in investigative report at the association for the period of january first twenty twenty third december thirty first of twenty twenty one which disclosed nineteen hundred dollars in in proper disbursements may be the bookkeeper that had been identified in agreed upon procedures report for the association in six hundred and sixty five dollars in and argument in dispersements subsequent our investigative report the fifth judicial district prosecution attorney requested that we perform the same procedures for the period january one of twenty twenty two third december thirty first of twenty three our review revealed the cash receipts tolling a hundred seventy dollars were not deposited in association accounts on six occasions funds turtling six thousand four hundred dollars were held for several weeks before being deposited we noted no improper dispar- disbursements uh audit again identified internal control dis- deficiencies over the associations receiving and depositing process and we recommended that receipt speed a positive tomorrow in reconcile with bank deposits in addition the board should exercise proper fiscal oversight in shar- insurer internal controls are established over the receiving depositing process in monitor controls to insure it here. Based on our discussion with the association bookkeeper she has now repaid the nineteen hundred dollars that was identified as in proper disparsements in the results of our review were forwarded to the prosecution attorney okay so then we can file this there is that objection we file. Glad they paid them should have helped skip out here quicker continue mistruck continuing reports students referred to the prostitution attorney politics continuing with the reports that refer to the prostreat and attorney and turning general's office on page thirteen through fifteen we have a private report from the city on the city of guest they had one finance been referred to the prosecutor during the course of the audit it was observed that there were instances of unapproved payroll increases so passing the estimated three percent limit for the january two thousand and nineteen minutes pay all of just were identified that exceeded the approved three percent increase. Indicated deviation from the established policy in several institutes there were a lack of documentation supporting the payroll adjustments beyond approved uh limit staff recommends that we found this report. Any comments questions. Motion to file your second second on favorite pose thank you. For a continue continual page fifteen we have miller county for twenty twenty two the circuit clark's office discovered on the part of the receipt told thirty three hundred dollars they had been altered by employee during the period war and twenty twenty through august twenty fourth twenty twenty two employee responsible for the departments were to terminated on september sixteenth point twenty two. And and we subsidially verified on the part of the receipt on a test basis again this report being been referred to the prosecution staff recommends we filed. General in the back that sir if you'll step forward we'll hear which you have to say. Yesterday there's a get that red light to come on in then we want to hear please please introduce yourself for the wreck of money with richard hall i'm j p miller county for district three in I really didn't come here to speak on this particular matter I just came to sort of educate myself about the your deal agent public servants are well i'm system my second year and I don't know much in that I don't know where to speak do you need to speak on this mayor please proceed okay well what I want to ask about we're getting these responsibility reports and they seem to be suggesting changes that we might to our accounting practices in there been one in twenty twenty one and another twenty twenty two in weird you know it appears to smart reading of this is we are as a core core required to respond to this in our soon make the appropriate changes that are accounting practices now these patterns to my recollection never have been brought to the corn court but I do see that that's stated there's a date it should be happening well let me let me clarify. Carry constitutional officers have certain responsibilities in its legislative body the core court has certain responsibilities budget of course being a big part of your response for. Case of in this is a case where this is I guess an employee of the circuit clark's office there I won't say my mistake did something wrong because the employee was terminated but that's it there's no procedure that the core and court created that was violated then there's nothing for the all the fixed by changing your the carries foreign and so so yes you're i'm appreciate your diligence in what we'll make sure you do and there are things that obviously we've been here today you know there are things core cordest look at but I don't know that this one is one of them you had an employee that some wrong they got caught the reterminated and I think it that ones all at least were back to fix it for file the report will have uh realized that not really didn't happen than decides specifically about the space but in all the the the letter that a copy companies you know the listing of adams that accompany these letters that I received uh tuesday of this week is uh did have significant foundings and significant unusual transactions and so forth and again out his corn court member i'm just wandering should we be doing something about the staff responded there and I think senator hammers thank you chair put your assent is that you have to review this in core import meeting and you do but you have thirty days from today unless you're next corn court means of the in ten days that today and then you have the next comport meeting to do that to undertand violation is at this point because the clock starts running when we adjourn today so um you've got that to do that part of it so you're not that's when that's what that lettered referred to is your action at the next corner court meeting okay well I did see that there was some of the same thanks for pointed out in. Twenty one that are being pointed out in the twenty two and I don't recall and I wasn't on the board in twenty one so I didn't know whether they addressed this issues but but I would like to see this do whatever we're supposed to do and I thank you for being build in provide and again in the association in case I also have people with gaddens on that but where that's not what we do here but they will if you check with them in center hammer you had some comment just second what you just said as well as you say is for your article here we'll tell you how to get hold of the association of county so you communicate with them directly but uhm as far as communications which you're counting judge we all have good communications that you could go to them or him that's an issue but okay well we'll get off on that one but we'll give which is the sociation country so you go I did a ten one of their training driver taking off so but I didn't know why I could go to them with question thank you for being thank you sir appreciate you do so not really impressed by you people thank you sir on behalf of the full committee the let's uh it's a weak this is made for so we can file this motion to files her second second of favor say II pose thank you the last bergman on page of fifteen. Uh this one is also being referred to the prosecute attorney and attorney general more than the mayor in the uh police chief more than fifty percent of the summons written in twenty two and twenty three for the traffic finances of speeding or for speed limit violations that were ten miles per hour or less than the post to speak limit in our compliance the twelve a four three few remember collectors to to prove to the speed trap law if you have more than thirty percent of the revenue or if you receive each you more than have have you tickets for less than ten miles for now this has been referred the prior security period that response you've got a reference between the line do you see what you I got I won't touch on this I could say so that declare fire if these vowel more than half your violations are less than ten miles tin miles from or less over the postage speed limit then that's not compliance yes which basically means you can down people I would be and it's a little bit over okay now well that's exactly what it is representing them and then they have response for the achievements as we have taken right tickets it looks as i'll folks can afford a large fire and power like there I really don't I mean i'm not saying they have some that that there's justice and there's mercy I appreciate that but you know I don't want to have two tears of citizens yellow more money that we're all socket to you and that's basically what he's saying so uh favorite close alright thank you that our last year sir we would own a repeat findings on page sixteen we have the city of adone down a donor I don't believe is anybody here for madonna. Staff recommends for now per objection will be deferred moving on page seventeen we have village is there anybody here from where to critically know what it's indian. We work there for communities we defer far objective. We're twenty three and twenty two uh under the recorder treasure. Reconciliations were not properly prepared for all bank accounts or approved by minister official or employee other than the person preparing the reconciliation has required about fourteen fifty nine one or eight this is a repeat finding. The following deficiencies were no really doing the review payroll record areas forms nine forty one thirty three arguments all forms are a or three were not provided for twenty three or twenty two supporting documentation of the authorising over thirty four thousand dollars and thirty one thousand five hundred and payroll prepare salary for twenty three and twenty two respectly we're not probably the finance been repeated in the previous four reports since two thousand and sixteen we have the kind of a quarter treasure to kind of way up here to answer questi. Please introduce yourself the record to kinds of way out recorded treasure for the city please proceed um I came in twenty one so prior to sixteen I can't you I can of the new movement will close pull your mic closer to you again I came in twenty one so in sixteen in prior to that you know before twenty one I can't give an account. Sourcey um to do our payroll now and the bank stay mids I don't know like a head to do that i'm still learning the lady that was trying to be prior to. She left out you know cause he had canceled so i've been cannon in it but i'm learning you are the record trash source he safely company which is cpa firm to to do your payroll sir I had also hopefully this is not an issue going for they got to do the ones in all it from yes sir okay. Okay motion to file the second on favor say I pose thank you may have forcome appreciates you for where. I think on page eighteen we have four report that we have other all private reports the findings were issued and we had not received responses at the time we prepare this reform report for the antwer and water systems there's four three separate reports for twenty two twenty one in twenty we contacted the mayor and he indicated that he did respond in this could remember whether responded to us or the private CPA firm he's checking in on that a staff work a means we deferred those three reports to give him more time and yes alright without objection that we deferred and general portland we since received adequate response and staff recognize that we file that report motion files your second second replacement we on favor say I post thank you move an owner report with resolve findings we have twenty seven reports on pages twenty our nineteen through twenty five community which is to take a few minutes to read through those after their staff recommends we follow. Look through if you need to ask to hold up for a second we'll do that. Chair has a motion and the second. In discussion. Not on favorite say I post motion passes pages twenty sixth twenty eight we have seventy five report with no findings we recommend we file. The. Post. I guess we're done our do we need to look at our our spreadsheet here mister that was do with the matters and and the uh we already approved sir I guess we're done any other risk has come for the comm. A hard day's work appreciate you if not we stay in adjourned till our next meeting in september.